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http://todayhealth.today.com/_news/2013/01/24/16664866-fat-shaming-may-curb-obesity-bioethicist-says






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Is he right?


Some disorders are specifically due to the stigma of being fat or the perception that one is fat. Seems like there is enough shaming, already. Ask a fat person if they think they are fat (make sure you know them, or you'll get smacked...or something). Almost all will admit to being fat. They are probably ashamed to be seen without some of their clothes (shirt off or swimsuit) off. So why does this dude think more shaming is needed? It won't work.



What we need is forced exercise. Fascism for the win? WEEEEEEEE!

Conscript every fat person. They'll lose weight and provide meat shields in the mean time.




But no, a public (and publicly-funded) shaming campaign is a terrible idea. Not that it won't get results, but that it kind of goes against the whole spirit of choosing who and what you want to be. If some private company or organization wants to spend their own money on something like this, go for it. But a shaming program operated by the government and paid for with taxpayer dollars? F*ck no.

Bad idea; the people who need to be shamed are the heads of fast food corporations and snack food companies.

Trial run: if we can shame the WBC in to disbandment, then give it a try with fatties.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Bad idea; the people who need to be shamed are the heads of fast food corporations and snack food companies. , as well as the diet and fashion industries for pushing "thin" way too far (ie, to unhealthy extremes), so that even normal-weight people question their attractiveness.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Some disorders are specifically due to the stigma of being fat or the perception that one is fat. Seems like there is enough shaming, already. Ask a fat person if they think they are fat (make sure you know them, or you'll get smacked...or something). Almost all will admit to being fat. They are probably ashamed to be seen without some of their clothes (shirt off or swimsuit) off. So why does this dude think more shaming is needed? It won't work. Does Callahan know about this:
http://healthland.time.com/2013/01/02/being-overweight-is-linked-to-lower-risk-of-mortality/

On the other hand, I think bringing back public shaming -- for a variety of reasons much worse than "being overweight" -- may not be such a bad idea.

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/business/hancock/blog/MADOFF.jpg

How do you prove if one is "physically fit" or not?

Because if just going by who looks fit, regardless of physical ability, we are judging solely based on aesthetic.

Originally posted by dadudemon
http://todayhealth.today.com/_news/2013/01/24/16664866-fat-shaming-may-curb-obesity-bioethicist-says






Read the rest of the article.





Is he right?


Some disorders are specifically due to the stigma of being fat or the perception that one is fat. Seems like there is enough shaming, already. Ask a fat person if they think they are fat (make sure you know them, or you'll get smacked...or something). Almost all will admit to being fat. They are probably ashamed to be seen without some of their clothes (shirt off or swimsuit) off. So why does this dude think more shaming is needed? It won't work.



What we need is forced exercise. Fascism for the win? WEEEEEEEE!

He's a ****.

Originally posted by Omega Vision Bad idea; the people who need to be shamed are the heads of fast food corporations and snack food companies. I agree and disagree. I Think what Lord Lucien said applies here also.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien If some private company or organization wants to spend their own money on something like this, go for it. But a shaming program operated by the government and paid for with taxpayer dollars? F*ck no.

People that continually go out to eat are more to blame then the actual fast food company imo. But then you also have to take into account people that are poor and how it could benefit them more to eat fast food. Although, if you can hold fast food accountable for that then health food companies should be held accountable for their prices being to high. Not to mention coupons could be used to buy groceries.

Originally posted by Mindship
, as well as the diet and fashion industries for pushing "thin" way too far (ie, to unhealthy extremes), so that even normal-weight people question their attractiveness.


I think this is the main problem. Some people like eating and become obese while some can't help it because of medical conditions. Also there are people that want to lose weight but get discouraged. It's all up to them and their is no reason to make people feel bad about themselves because of the life choices they make......in this instance at least....

Originally posted by dadudemon
http://todayhealth.today.com/_news/2013/01/24/16664866-fat-shaming-may-curb-obesity-bioethicist-says






Read the rest of the article.





Is he right?


Some disorders are specifically due to the stigma of being fat or the perception that one is fat. Seems like there is enough shaming, already. Ask a fat person if they think they are fat (make sure you know them, or you'll get smacked...or something). Almost all will admit to being fat. They are probably ashamed to be seen without some of their clothes (shirt off or swimsuit) off. So why does this dude think more shaming is needed? It won't work.



What we need is forced exercise. Fascism for the win? WEEEEEEEE!

Lol.

You're right, in this case, fascism is for your own good.

But what about people like me, who are just big boned?

Originally posted by Bardock42
But what about people like me, who are just big boned?
Is that the literal English translation of "Deutscher"?

You learn something every day.

Originally posted by Bardock42
But what about people like me, who are just big boned?

You're lucky to have a body type in which your shoulders can be broad when you bulk.

I saw a highschooler the other day, with the face of a middle schooler, who was about eight feet tall. Now didn't rhave any fat, anywhere..really.

However, he will never look normal. He must have been reincarnated from a giraffe.

Some people's samototypes are too extreme to ever look normal, though, you have to stay sensitive.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
If some private company or organization wants to spend their own money on something like this, go for it.

Why the hell would you support a private company that exists only to insult and attack people?

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Bad idea; the people who need to be shamed are the heads of fast food corporations and snack food companies.

I enjoy those products very much and I can tell you I am in better shape than anyone in this thread except for you (yeah, I've seen your pictures, you sexy beast).

It is not necessarily what one eats but what they do. Granted, I do eat more than just junk foods and fast foods. But one can have a 5000 calorie diet and still be fit as ****.

If you burn more calories than you consume you will lose weight.

It's just certain foods sold by certain big dollar companies, almost every food resturant out there, sells mostly foods that cause chemical dependency. Therefore if someone has neurological issues, or even emotional problems, they will succumb to gluttony.

Doesn't mean we should or can do anything about what food is sold to who.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Why the hell would you support a private company that exists only to insult and attack people? wut?

Originally posted by dadudemon
I enjoy those products very much and I can tell you I am in better shape than anyone in this thread except for you (yeah, I've seen your pictures, you sexy beast).

It is not necessarily what one eats but what they do. Granted, I do eat more than just junk foods and fast foods. But one can have a 5000 calorie diet and still be fit as ****.
You saw the photo where I'm lifting the 600 pound shark over my head?

They'll lose weight and provide meat shields in the mean time.http://www.sdra.info/6f.jpghttp://www.sdra.info/k3.jpg

Originally posted by Dolos
I saw a highschooler the other day, with the face of a middle schooler, who was about eight feet tall.

That would make him the tallest person on Earth.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I enjoy those products very much and I can tell you I am in better shape than anyone in this thread except for you (yeah, I've seen your pictures, you sexy beast).

It is not necessarily what one eats but what they do. Granted, I do eat more than just junk foods and fast foods. But one can have a 5000 calorie diet and still be fit as ****.

Don't lie you fat, pasty, out of shape piece of shit.

Originally posted by NemeBro
That would make him the tallest person on Earth.
He's using hyperbole, you illiterate retard.

What we need are cell-sized devices dispersed from desolvable pills to replace surgeries like liposuction or gastric bypasses.

These surgeries are terrible and don't really solve the problem. These cell-sized machines, "liposites", could follow the blood-flow to enter one's adipose tissue and cut off the supply of lipids to unneccessary fat cells. Millions of these liposites would make it vertually impossible for one to become obese, even if 99% of his/her brain's neurons become chemically dependant on donuts from stretching a stomach out with danishes on a daily basis.

Self-replicating bio-nano-tech-robots, a cure for the common cancer, alzheimer's, and obesity.

In a century, these things will have reached such stupendous levels of efficiency that they could possibly, and radically, replace all human cells. That our bodies will be like technology, immortal, repairable, customizable, and ever-improving.

Originally posted by NemeBro
That would make him the tallest person on Earth.



Don't lie you fat, pasty, out of shape piece of shit. ddm may be a fat, pasty, out of shape piece of shit, but...yea, I forgot where I was going with this.

I think it has to do with having be more informed of what healthy is.

It doesn't have to be the ripped gym body.

And also that almost ever person is different so what will be termed healthy for them will also be different.

Its not like people are forced to eat fast food........and if they do eat those kind of stuff then take your time and lift your ass up and go work out or do cardio atleast 1 hour a day......if your burn more calories then you eat you won't get fat easy as that....

Originally posted by Estacado
Its not like people are forced to eat fast food........and if they do eat those kind of stuff then take your time and lift your ass up and go work out or do cardio atleast 1 hour a day......if your burn more calories then you eat you won't get fat easy as that....
At a certain point in anyone's life no amount of exercise compensates for poor diet.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
At a certain point in anyone's life no amount of exercise compensates for poor diet.
True....
All they have to do is avoid high carb foods....
Eat like 5 times a day and do cardio.....only small amount of food though...don't eat any carbs after 6 PM..etc

fufk yea n0 fat CHiks lets all weorkout

http://plus4chan.org/b/mspa/src/132633780119.jpg

Originally posted by Estacado
True....
All they have to do is avoid high carb foods....
Eat like 5 times a day and do cardio.....only small amount of food though...don't eat any carbs after 6 PM..etc
Not just carbs. Red meat is also awful, and no amount of cardio will prevent heart disease if you eat a Baconator for lunch every day of your life.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Not just carbs. Red meat is also awful, and no amount of cardio will prevent heart disease if you eat a Baconator for lunch every day of your life.

Really, just don't eat anything and you'll be fine.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Really, just don't eat anything and you'll be fine.
Just drink water.

Slug life.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Just drink water.

Slug life.

I did that before. Cut from 190 to 160 in about 3 weeks without a single calorie or a real workout routing, just 6 hour runs to get me through the starvation whe I wasn't doing anything. Then when I was reintroduced to solid foods, and in about 1 or 2 weeks I was 190 and looked just the same as before fasting.

Now, through good nutrition, supplements, and exercise and weightlifting, I am 177 again.

You look like you'd make a tasty morsel in a federal prison.

^That's a ****ed up line of thought. I'm offended.

The second picture looks unhealthily thin.

Calm the **** down.

I might have cheated to get there, but that was the first point in my life where my six abs were like, *poof*.

Gotta do something to compensate for the resorts that cater to the obese. Maybe just poke them with sticks when they're out in public.

Wow. Vanity, vanity, all is vanity.

Ever heard of predisone? It's a really nasty perscription drug that people have to take for anti-inflammatory reasons. It causes a increase in appetite, and an increase in water retention , and induceds symptoms like "moon-face."

I've had to take it for years, upwards of 100 mgs a day.

When I was fourteen, I had to shop in the "gramma" section or the maternity section.

There are other reasons that people can get fat, and if you don't know WHY, then you really have no right to criticize.

Originally posted by siriuswriter
there are other reasons that people can get fat Fat gremlins. Vicious little f*ckers infested half the States.

Originally posted by siriuswriter
Wow. Vanity, vanity, all is vanity.

Ever heard of predisone? It's a really nasty perscription drug that people have to take for anti-inflammatory reasons. It causes a increase in appetite, and an increase in water retention , and induceds symptoms like "moon-face."

I've had to take it for years, upwards of 100 mgs a day.

When I was fourteen, I had to shop in the "gramma" section or the maternity section.

There are other reasons that people can get fat, and if you don't know WHY, then you really have no right to criticize.

I like you too much to argue with you.

Fat people don't have feelings or a conscious to speak of.

At least they have souls.

That's better than gingers.

Originally posted by Mindset
At least they have souls.

That's better than gingers.
Their souls are also fat though.

Omg, all ghosts are fat people.

Their souls can't climb the stairway to heaven.

You guys are dicks. Unless a person has a medical condition or some other kind of valid reason, I say go for it. Shame those fat lazy ****s to get into shape.

The worst thing about fat people is how they get all offended like they have cancer or something. I remember being sent to the Principal office for calling this obese chick a fatass cause she kept attempting to sit beside me. I wouldn't have minded so much if she didn't keep trying to talk to me and knew how to take a shower. That's another thing about fat people that pisses me off, they almost always smell.

Originally posted by siriuswriter
When I was fourteen, I had to shop in the "gramma" section or the maternity section.



School must have been rough, kids can be mean little ****ers.

Originally posted by Astner
Fat people don't have feelings or a conscious to speak of.
Did you mean to say conscience?

Big girls are sexy!

Fat people should be taunted. Why not? People stigmatize those addicted to smoking or drinking....and before anyone says being fat is a victimless crime, you need to shut up and stop being so damn politically correct. Overeating is an addiction like smoking, drinking, and doing drugs. It is an example of weak mindness and selfhishness. How much money do you pay for health insurance? It's partially that high because of the cost to keep these fat asses alive. They choose to be lazy and stuff their faces with whatever tastes good and don't give two damns about your wallet. So poor people can die in the streets because they don't have money due to a fat bastard choosing to be gluttonous?
Or are you in the line of thinking they're born like that? So, suddenly we have an epidemic of obesity of epic proportions? Just out of nowhere? That doesn't make sense at all; we live in a society of pointing fingers and we're always blaming everything and everyone else for our own shortcomings.
Do we blame aggressive marketing or an abundance of unhealthy foods? Do you think so? I think not, our entire financial structure would crumble..........it's all about supply and demand. Nobody is holding a gun to chubby face and ordering him to swallow that Baconator.
Lastly, in a society where technology and law has almost destroyed the natural law of survival and the fittest................nature still prevails in the form of fat, weakminded individuals killing themselves through lack of restraint. All the financial and medical burdens of obesity are resultant to us trying to fix natures way of culling the weak.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Did you mean to say conscience?
No, they shift into diabetic comas as their food consumption dictates. He had it right.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus


School must have been rough, kids can be mean little ****ers.

Yes, they can. However, being bald from chemo usually shuts everyone up.

Originally posted by Raisen
Fat people should be taunted. Why not? People stigmatize those addicted to smoking or drinking....and before anyone says being fat is a victimless crime, you need to shut up and stop being so damn politically correct. Overeating is an addiction like smoking, drinking, and doing drugs. It is an example of weak mindness and selfhishness. How much money do you pay for health insurance? It's partially that high because of the cost to keep these fat asses alive. They choose to be lazy and stuff their faces with whatever tastes good and don't give two damns about your wallet. So poor people can die in the streets because they don't have money due to a fat bastard choosing to be gluttonous?
Or are you in the line of thinking they're born like that? So, suddenly we have an epidemic of obesity of epic proportions? Just out of nowhere? That doesn't make sense at all; we live in a society of pointing fingers and we're always blaming everything and everyone else for our own shortcomings.
Do we blame aggressive marketing or an abundance of unhealthy foods? Do you think so? I think not, our entire financial structure would crumble..........it's all about supply and demand. Nobody is holding a gun to chubby face and ordering him to swallow that Baconator.
Lastly, in a society where technology and law has almost destroyed the natural law of survival and the fittest................nature still prevails in the form of fat, weakminded individuals killing themselves through lack of restraint. All the financial and medical burdens of obesity are resultant to us trying to fix natures way of culling the weak.

Right, because all overweight people are lazy/weak willed.

Shut up.

Fat people arent' all that bad. They just have bigger hearts. Heavier hearts. They are more senseeeetiiiiive!

Be nice to the overweight inidividual. Care for him/her. Compliment him/her more often. He/she will surely begin follow you around everywhere like a dog with a red rockettt...at that point you have no choice but the BREAK the individual's false sense of self-worth that they built their life upon.

I did this to many, then I became a tubby. I did not like the transition, but I was cursed by a tubby friend who stalked me and now I have this disease forever and ever. ahauhhuhhh.

It's kind alike when you hang around with stupid people, they will eventually curse you with stupidity for being their frieeeeeend. Now friends shall always be elusive to me.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus




School must have been rough, kids can be mean little ****ers. Rage used the n word.

>Claims he hates fat people

>Idolizes the Hulk, who might as well be obese because his muscles fill him up like a tick about to pop.

Whereas the Original Superhero Superman is faster than the Flash and stronger than the Hulk and smarter than Batman.

Are you talking about me?

I'm talkin bout all you fanboyz.

Superman outlifted the Hulk twice. Don't you forget.

I'm not a Hulk fan.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Right, because all overweight people are lazy/weak willed.

Shut up. Not all...just a lot. But so what? A lot of skinny people are too. Also ridiculing people is good for them sometimes. All the political correctness is really insincere, and sets some people up for major psychological damage, as soon as they deal with some REALLY insensitive person or people.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Right, because all overweight people are lazy/weak willed.

Shut up.

Not all. Some people have genuine health problems they can't overcome. However, that percentage is ridiculously small. Vast majority of fat people are lazy/gluttonous/weak willed.

Originally posted by The MISTER
Not all...just a lot. But so what? A lot of skinny people are too. Also ridiculing people is good for them sometimes. All the political correctness is really insincere, and sets some people up for major psychological damage, as soon as they deal with some REALLY insensitive person or people.

Thank you Sir

Originally posted by Raisen
Not all. Some people have genuine health problems they can't overcome. However, that percentage is ridiculously small.

Where does this information come from? I like sources for my prior probabilities.

So shaming fat people is okay, but not people who are too thin, anorexic or bulimic? You don't think fat people are shamed enough as it is walking down the street and being stared at by assholes like you lot every day?

For those who favour government intervention so much, maybe you should demand sodium restrictions in your food products and mandatory gym classes in high school before you demand edgier anti-fat advertising.

Originally posted by silver_tears
So shaming fat people is okay, but not people who are too thin, anorexic or bulimic? You don't think fat people are shamed enough as it is walking down the street and being stared at by assholes like you lot every day?

For those who favour government intervention so much, maybe you should demand sodium restrictions in your food products and mandatory gym classes in high school before you demand edgier anti-fat advertising.
Bless this post.

Originally posted by silver_tears
So shaming fat people is okay, but not people who are too thin, anorexic or bulimic? You don't think fat people are shamed enough as it is walking down the street and being stared at by assholes like you lot every day?

For those who favour government intervention so much, maybe you should demand sodium restrictions in your food products and mandatory gym classes in high school before you demand edgier anti-fat advertising.

Well I believe anyone that wishes for more government control should by consequence be controlled by the government in their daily choices. Then we would see how long they continue standing behind their belief.

Anyways a government founded program to shame or ridicule anyone is a terrible idea. Privately owned and founded is a different story though. I still agree it is morally wrong but then its basically just a well founded protest and protesting is still legal.

Originally posted by silver_tears
So shaming fat people is okay, but not people who are too thin, anorexic or bulimic? No one said that.

It is best not to counter a fallacy with one of your own.

Originally posted by BlackZero30x
Well I believe anyone that wishes for more government control should by consequence be controlled by the government in their daily choices.

I believe anyone who wishes for more harassment and assault should be harassed and assaulted more in their daily life.

Originally posted by silver_tears
So shaming fat people is okay, but not people who are too thin, anorexic or bulimic? You don't think fat people are shamed enough as it is walking down the street and being stared at by assholes like you lot every day?

For those who favour government intervention so much, maybe you should demand sodium restrictions in your food products and mandatory gym classes in high school before you demand edgier anti-fat advertising.

Anti-fat adverts????

Here in Ammerka??????

9UWq26V01po

The making people fat business is CRUCIAL for us!

Originally posted by NemeBro
No one said that.

It is best not to counter a fallacy with one of your own.

The question was rhetorical, but seeing as how I have yet to read about a thin shaming campaign, I choose to make the assumption that the question holds.

Really appreciate the thought-provoking response though, especially the condescending thumbs up

Originally posted by Kharhmah
A lot of different medications can make you gain weight. Birth control pills and antidepressants, for example.

Don't forget geodon. I gained 40 pounds at age 12-13. I've turned most of it into muscle but if I hadn't I'd still be fat. I haven't taken any in two years and it's effects on my eating habbits are still apparent!!

Originally posted by Dolos
Anti-fat adverts????

Here in Ammerka??????

9UWq26V01po

The making people fat business is CRUCIAL for us!

You know, I like food adverts. They're oftentimes some of the best and most clever ads out there. Like Coke, they do amazing things.

I'm just saying, we wouldn't have to worry about the effect of the advertising if we demanded the food it's advertising was more nutritiously sound.

Originally posted by silver_tears
You know, I like food adverts. They're oftentimes some of the best and most clever ads out there. Like Coke, they do amazing things.

I'm just saying, we wouldn't have to worry about the effect of the advertising if we demanded the food it's advertising was more nutritiously sound.

Yeah but I haven't seen any sign of this happening outside of subway.

More fattening foods are cheaper, poorly cut proteins comprise most of what is sold on the food market today. It's just more cost effective to provide poor nutrient foods, despite the health effects.

And food is everywhere I go, just driving to work of course I go past 100 fast food stores. Yet there's only one place I go, the local grocery store. I only eat healthy. At work, on lunch break, it's either pack my own lunch, don't eat, or eat fast food.

Originally posted by Dolos
Yeah but I haven't seen any sign of this happening outside of subway.

Only if you get the whole grain with no sauce, six-inch, it's all in the fine print.

Hasn't New York banned Big Gulps now? That's a step in the right direction in my opinion. Nobody on this planet needs 2L of soft drink a day.

Sodium should be next. The amount of sodium in food here is disgusting and completely unnecessary. But it's a great preservative and it increases your appetite so restaurants, and not just fast food ones, will continue to dump truck loads of it into their food. A prolonged high-sodium diet is deadly, but nothing is being done about it.

Originally posted by silver_tears
A prolonged high-sodium diet is deadly, but nothing is being done about it.

If you prolong any diet enough it is lethal.

Perhaps you mean that there are some linked health risks?

Way to cut off most of my argument in the quote.

Originally posted by silver_tears
The question was rhetorical, but seeing as how I have yet to read about a thin shaming campaign, I choose to make the assumption that the question holds.

Really appreciate the thought-provoking response though, especially the condescending thumbs up

Considering Raisen responded to a post noting really thin people can be lazy and weak people with agreement, I'd say it likely does not.

edit

Originally posted by NemeBro
Considering Raisen responded to a post noting really thin people can be lazy and weak people with agreement, I'd say it likely does not.

The difference between fat people and thin people is that fat people are in your face with their bodies. Obese people less cut out for survival as well I would say because they can't move, get up, etc. One more difference is that, even if it's not the obese person's fault, obese people have issues with gluttony, and anorexic people get satiated far too easily, the same amount of food makes them sick, they will loose more weight from gorging themselves because of how their metabolism is set. When a fat person gorgeous his or herself nothing changes, when they try cutting calories, that's when they gain weight because of how their metabolism is set. I have more empathy towards obese people for that reason, I would rather no one have to suffer from being fat than from lacking the ability to have fat.

Originally posted by Dolos
The difference between fat people and thin people is that fat people are in your face with their bodies. Yeah man not conforming to someone's perception of beauty is the real problem.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Yeah man not conforming to someone's perception of beauty is the real problem.

Believe it or not that tends to annoy women, have man-boobs in their face.

People are forgetting to quote most of my agruments here.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Yes, I'm aware that diet can be a noun. If you eat an ideal healthy amount of food every day of your life you'll die one day.

Demonstrating that a high sodium diet is "lethal" or even reduces life span is very difficult for a number of reasons (for example high sodium diets are usually unhealthy in other ways so extracting the effects of sodium by regression is basically impossible). Perhaps you mean that people have found health issues linked to high sodium intake?

So you're saying a high sodium diet and a diet with high sodium intake are two different things? Sorry, just a bit confused.

In what other ways are these diets unhealthy, do you mean that they're normally also high in fat etc, and so the affects of sodium haven't been studied alone?

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I believe anyone who wishes for more harassment and assault should be harassed and assaulted more in their daily life.

ok cool. what does that have to do with anything I said?

Just for argument's sake, for those people who support this idea, how do you decide someone is fat? Is it strictly by the numbers on the scale? Is it through common ideals of aesthetics?

Originally posted by silver_tears
Just for argument's sake, for those people who support this idea, how do you decide someone is fat? Is it strictly by the numbers on the scale? Is it through common ideals of aesthetics?

First of all I don't agree because destruction of confidence isn't a positive motivator for many people. I'll answer your question as it pertains to when and why I decided to lose weight.

I knew people who were fat and had girlfriends and were thought of as attractive, I knew fat people who were good at sports. However, I also noticed that having this flab hanging off my body really pissed me off...that's because I don't find it attractive at all. This distracted my attention, made everything more difficult. For me, it was a matter of being uncomfortable with who I was. At what point am I comfortable with my phsyique? When I see myself in a picture and a video and I look like a stud, an appearance defined totally by me.

Originally posted by Raisen
Not all. Some people have genuine health problems they can't overcome. However, that percentage is ridiculously small. Vast majority of fat people are lazy/gluttonous/weak willed.

No, they aren't.

"Fat" doesn't just cover those people that ride around on scooters and eat mcdonalds every day.

If you want to say "morbidly obese" then those people, sure.

Can't someone just pay for liposuction?

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Where does this information come from? I like sources for my prior probabilities.

You're treating this like a comic book. You want scans?

YOU BECOME FAT WHEN YOU CONSUME MORE CALORIES THAN YOU EXPEND. I allowed a small margin for those who are in too much pain to exercise, or those on medications which may slow down their metabolism. EITHER WAY, THESE PEOPLE ARE CONSUMING MORE CALORIES THAN THEY ARE EXPENDING. So, what can you attribute that to?? Gluttony and selfishness............for eating too much. Laziness........for not excersing to make up the difference?
Do you believe most people are fat for reasons out of their control?
Who do you want to blame for people being fat? You don't hold the individual responsible for what they shove into their mouths? Where does this road end, when do we hold people accountable for their actions?
Are we to blame the criminal's behavior on society? bad teachers? parents? poverty? Or do we hold the criminal responsible for his own behavior?
Do we blame rape on the attacker himself being raped in prior years? Do we blame television or adult video producers? Or do we hold the rapist responsible for his actions?

Originally posted by Raisen
You're treating this like a comic book. You want scans?

I like evidence.

If you would like to debate as though you were less mature and reasonable than an angry comic book nerd you are, of course, free to do so but you're not going to sway me with kindergarten rhetoric.

Originally posted by Raisen
Do you believe most people are fat for reasons out of their control?

No, but you seem very certain that they only a very small portion are. What actual reasons do you base this on? Typing in all caps, for example, doesn't support your argument.

Originally posted by Raisen
Who do you want to blame for people being fat?

I'm not sure its clear we have to blame anyone. So far you haven't done anything to change my opinion.

Originally posted by -Pr-
No, they aren't.

"Fat" doesn't just cover those people that ride around on scooters and eat mcdonalds every day.

If you want to say "morbidly obese" then those people, sure.

http://www.webmd.com/diet/news/20100210/percentage-of-overweight-obese-americans-swells

3% of Americans are morbidly obese.

More than half are obese( and there is a distinction made between obese and overweight, obese being more severe)

There is a correlation between exercise and obesity level.

You don't even necessarily need to diet. If you just got up and exercised............many would be in a much healthier condition. I eat fast food every day. I was fat. I joined the military and started running. lost weight and still ate like crap.

I'm now in the best shape of my life at 30. I got abs. I train for five boxing rounds a day. I weigh 200 lbs and can do 10 pull ups with 70 lbs of weight hanging around my waist. I do dips with 140 lbs of weight around my waist. Run a 5:30 mile. I still eat like crap. I do all this while pursuing my Masters, raising a child, and working 40 + hours a week.

You know what really motivated me? I cancelled cable and I don't watch t.v. YEP, I THINK LAZINESS IS A REAL FACTOR HERE.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I like evidence.

If you would like to debate as though you were less mature and reasonable than an angry comic book nerd you are, of course, free to do so but you're not going to sway me with kindergarten rhetoric.



No, but you seem very certain that they only a very small portion are. What actual reasons do you base this on? Typing in all caps, for example, doesn't support your argument.



I'm not sure its clear we have to blame anyone. So far you haven't done anything to change my opinion.

Why are so many more people obese now compared to 70 years ago? Everybody contracted a new fat virus? Or is it television and crap food? Yet we have ultra in shape people running around. I'd say nature is weeding out the strong from the weak. The weak and lazy choose to sit around watching televison and getting fat.

Originally posted by Raisen
http://www.webmd.com/diet/news/20100210/percentage-of-overweight-obese-americans-swells

3% of Americans are morbidly obese.

More than half are obese( and there is a distinction made between obese and overweight, obese being more severe)

There is a correlation between exercise and obesity level.

You don't even necessarily need to diet. If you just got up and exercised............many would be in a much healthier condition. I eat fast food every day. I was fat. I joined the military and started running. lost weight and still ate like crap.

I'm now in the best shape of my life at 30. I got abs. I train for five boxing rounds a day. I weigh 200 lbs and can do 10 pull ups with 70 lbs of weight hanging around my waist. I do dips with 140 lbs of weight around my waist. Run a 5:30 mile. I still eat like crap. I do all this while pursuing my Masters, raising a child, and working 40 + hours a week.

You know what really motivated me? I cancelled cable and I don't watch t.v. YEP, I THINK LAZINESS IS A REAL FACTOR HERE.

I know guys who work forty hours a week on a construction site, and play almost four hours worth of football (soccer to clarify) during that same week.

Yet they're still technically overweight because they don't eat the healthiest food in the world. Hell, I WAS one of those guys.

No, laziness isn't always a factor. It just depends on what your definition of "fat" really is.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I know guys who work forty hours a week on a construction site, and play almost four hours worth of football (soccer to clarify) during that same week.

Yet they're still technically overweight because they don't eat the healthiest food in the world. Hell, I WAS one of those guys.

No, laziness isn't always a factor. It just depends on what your definition of "fat" really is.

We both know I never said that laziness is always a factor. Also, playing four hours of football in a week is not nearly enough exercise, no matter how intensely you play.

Anyway, I had a few too many last night. GOT TO GO TO THE GYM NOW

Originally posted by Raisen
We both know I never said that laziness is always a factor. Also, playing four hours of football in a week is not nearly enough exercise, no matter how intensely you play.

Anyway, I had a few too many last night. GOT TO GO TO THE GYM NOW


ermm

Yeah, because all that construction work is easy peasy.

Originally posted by Raisen
EITHER WAY, THESE PEOPLE ARE CONSUMING MORE CALORIES THAN THEY ARE EXPENDING. So, what can you attribute that to?? Gluttony and selfishness............for eating too much. Laziness........for not excersing to make up the difference?

I think you could blame at least a small portion (ha! PUN!) on ignorance.


How many people do you know that say the following in anyway: "Well, damn, my resting metabolic rate is not enough to outpace my daily Caloric intake. I am going to have to increase my activity, slightly, so I can lose this fat I've gained and then taper back the activity once I reach a healthy percentage." The only people that think like that are fitness-minded people and health professionals. They comprise...what...less than 2% of the population? CNN says only 3 out of 10 people exercise regularly. I bet you out of those 3, waaaay less than 1 of them is as health conscience enough as to account for a daily caloric expenditure.

Actually increasing the amount of calories proportionate to caloric intake is a ridiculous underpinning unless you get a bunch of paper to solve for math each day...and then you're not taking into account hormones.

What works, especially sense diets and exercise routines cannot be scheduled for normal people with sporadic work schedules; is simply strengthening every single muscle group.

A stronger muscle is heavier and larger, and requires more energy to maintain. Only thing consistently that has worked for me.

Originally posted by Raisen
We both know I never said that laziness is always a factor. Also, playing four hours of football in a week is not nearly enough exercise, no matter how intensely you play.
Yes, it is. We aren't talking professional athletes here.

Anyway, Calories in vs Calories out is the not-so-secret formula of weight management. If you can't/won't exercise, eat less. It may be annoying for newcomers, but turn the packaging over on the foods you eat. Count the calories. Make sure what you eat in a day is less than your maintenance calories*. It's not rocket science.

As for the actual thread topic, I don't know if fat shaming is what society "needs." I don't believe it's "right" though. Some people feel it is unfortunate, but people are allowed to be as fat as they want to be. I see no point in making people feel shitty about it.



*Online calculators aren't perfect, but they are a good place to start if you want to know your daily calorie requirements. Be honest when you input your info. Places like the bodybuilding.com forums are good for more info/advice. Check the "Losing Fat" sub-forum.

Overweight people cannot reduce calories without increasing fat storing hormones. Their metabolisms are set in stone. If by the off chance they do manage to lose quite a bit of weight, they will have such high quantities of fat storing hormones like estrogen that if they eat just a little bit they can take a lot of fat from that. And you need food to survive. I noticed that as I ate less and less the weight loss began to slow down, it halted until I pretty much had to go on the water diet Omega Vision mention to lose any more.

Now I just shit it all out and the weight can go down a lot faster.

Metabolism isn't set in stone. Changing your body composition will change your metabolism, regardless of how obese you were beforehand.

Also, dude. There is just....no way you sat there and only drank water for 3 weeks straight with no calories consumed.

Maybe he did, and his retarded ghost is typing that up.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Metabolism isn't set in stone. Changing your body composition will change your metabolism, regardless of how obese you were beforehand.

Ergo muscle mass.



It was more around 500 calories in 3 weeks, calories coming from small pieces of lettuce, and near the end of the third week nothing. I was able to do it because I was in between being obese and a healthy weight, so the hormones didn't stack as greatly as they would in a normal obese person, but I still had a lot of fat to eat. My body kept a good 10 out of 40 pounds of pure fat...that's hormones preserving fat usage by eating muscle what not despite muscle stimulation.

In one had your body realizes it's not getting enough energy to provide for healthy function neccessary to survive, on the other your muscles are being worked, tellling your body that it needs them strong to pull you out of survival situations as far is it can decipher. So it's at a quandry, feed off of the muscles, or feed off of the fat. Eventually it has to give into eating the fat, but when your body is running dangerously low on fat, ergo ten pounds, you really need to lift heavy shit to keep your muscles.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Maybe he did, and his retarded ghost is typing that up.

Given ample amounts of sleep and hydration it takes more than three weeks to die solely of starvation.

I've read stories about stranded people going months in icey wastelands before giving into cannabolism.

Originally posted by Dolos
Given ample amounts of sleep and hydration it takes more than three weeks to die solely of starvation.

I've read stories about stranded people going months in icey wastelands before giving into cannabolism.

Hungry? Why wait?

Originally posted by Ascendancy
Hungry? Why wait?

It takes a certain level of depravity to kill a person. Eating them takes it a step further. Hunger can grant a group that kind of depravity, icey climates can suck ass.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Metabolism isn't set in stone. Changing your body composition will change your metabolism, regardless of how obese you were beforehand.

Yes, this. One can significantly change their resting metabolic rate literally overnight.

Originally posted by Dolos
Overweight people cannot reduce calories without increasing fat storing hormones. Their metabolisms are set in stone. If by the off chance they do manage to lose quite a bit of weight, they will have such high quantities of fat storing hormones like estrogen that if they eat just a little bit they can take a lot of fat from that. And you need food to survive. I noticed that as I ate less and less the weight loss began to slow down, it halted until I pretty much had to go on the water diet Omega Vision mention to lose any more.

Now I just shit it all out and the weight can go down a lot faster. Almost everything you said is wrong.

Originally posted by Mindset
Almost everything you said is wrong.

Then to put it more simply; diets neccessarily reduce your bmr, and upping caloric intake can increase it. If your metabolism goes up you shit it out, if it goes down it turns into flab. Thus is your body's propensity to maintain it's weight.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Yes, this. One can significantly change their resting metabolic rate literally overnight.

If by overnight you mean however long it takes to repair microtrauma in muscle fibers after a long day at the gym, then yes. It increases because the muscles overcompensate after repair, it's called hypertrophy.

Originally posted by Dolos
If by overnight you mean however long it takes to repair microtrauma in muscle fibers after a long day at the gym, then yes. It increases because the muscles overcompensate after repair, it's called hypertrophy.

In the absence of adequate nutrients, it is not called hypertrophy and almost always results in something else called muscular catabolism. One can actually increase their bodyfat percentage because the muscles are easier to breakdown, under stress, than adipose tissues.

And in a hyperketonemia state, this results in gluconeogenesis which is desirable for one looking to lose bodyfat but only under a desirable ketogenesis state, not a harmful starvation state such as the catabolic one I described, above.

Originally posted by Dolos
Overweight people cannot reduce calories without increasing fat storing hormones. Their metabolisms are set in stone. If by the off chance they do manage to lose quite a bit of weight, they will have such high quantities of fat storing hormones like estrogen that if they eat just a little bit they can take a lot of fat from that. And you need food to survive. I noticed that as I ate less and less the weight loss began to slow down, it halted until I pretty much had to go on the water diet Omega Vision mention to lose any more.

Now I just shit it all out and the weight can go down a lot faster.
I was joking when I said that. It's a terrible idea. ermm

Originally posted by dadudemon
-snip-
And in a hyperketonemia state, this results in gluconeogenesis which is desirable for one looking to lose bodyfat but only under a desirable ketogenesis state, not a harmful starvation state such as the catabolic one I described, above.

So how do you induce hyperketonemia?

I know how to induce muscle hypetropy and catabolism, but not hyperketonemia, doesn't really sound possible as ketogens only come into being from starvation.

Wow you guys are making this complicated. Eat lots of small meals and work your ass off. You'll be in great shape. You don't need to be a scientist.

Originally posted by Dolos
Ergo muscle mass.
Well, yeah. You were right, then you went and said the exact opposite in the next post.
Originally posted by Dolos
It was more around 500 calories in 3 weeks, calories coming from small pieces of lettuce, and near the end of the third week nothing. I was able to do it because I was in between being obese and a healthy weight, so the hormones didn't stack as greatly as they would in a normal obese person, but I still had a lot of fat to eat. My body kept a good 10 out of 40 pounds of pure fat...that's hormones preserving fat usage by eating muscle what not despite muscle stimulation.

In one had your body realizes it's not getting enough energy to provide for healthy function neccessary to survive, on the other your muscles are being worked, tellling your body that it needs them strong to pull you out of survival situations as far is it can decipher. So it's at a quandry, feed off of the muscles, or feed off of the fat. Eventually it has to give into eating the fat, but when your body is running dangerously low on fat, ergo ten pounds, you really need to lift heavy shit to keep your muscles.
Bull. Shit. Dude.

Infant coma patients with no legs eat more calories than that. Get outta here with that shiznol.

Originally posted by Dolos
So how do you induce hyperketonemia?

I know how to induce muscle hypetropy and catabolism, but not hyperketonemia, doesn't really sound possible as ketogens only come into being from starvation.

I know it will seem obvious, in hindsight, but you just have to have a decent ketogenic diet.

I will stick with metabolic anabolism thank you.

Originally posted by StyleTime

Bull. Shit. Dude.

Infant coma patients with no legs eat more calories than that. Get outta here with that shiznol.

Oh you're wrong. I'm not exactly sane. In fact I'm so sane that what I have is worse than insanity...or better depending on my mood.

I will admit my stomach lining had problems, couldn't shit right for weeks and weeks after the ordeal. The advantages of having abs and a leaner physique was worth it for me.

Fat people have been shamed almost forever. It's just fat people just don't care.

Birds flock together I guess.

I've always had an insane metabolism and have been able to eat what I want and not gain any fat at all. I like to eat slowly, take a few bites, chew slowly, have a walk or conversation then take a few more bites.
But lately I've seen an alarming amount of people who suck down food like pelicans............

They literally suck food down at a rapid rate. And the lot of them look at me with disdain at how fast I'm eating mine.
Some literally take a chunk of food, put it in their mouth and swallow it without chewing!
WTF!!!

I watch an alarming amount of people "deepthroat" food on a daily basis.
It's like people don't even care about how food tastes anymore and the priority is just to get it the hell in there as fast as possible so they don't have to feel guilty about it.

no one has to be fat as far as I know, so its not like picking on retarded people