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What if someone gained the ability to perceive quantum wave function superpositions and choose the eigenstate which the wave function collapses to. What are the potential applications of this power?

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/joe_dirt.gif

I dunno, how powerful are insane blind people in general?

Originally posted by Lestov16
What if someone gained the ability to perceive quantum wave function superpositions and choose the eigenstate which the wave function collapses to. What are the potential applications of this power? As it so happens...

A few of my scifi stories have involved this premise. I had noticed that 'psi' was used not only by parapsychologists to denote what they study, but also by quantum physicists to denote the wavefunction. Hence: 'psiconsciousness'. 'Psiconscious' is now in the Urban Dictionary.

In old posts I used psiconsciousness to explain superpowers in general. As I conceive it, low-end application gives us things like telepathy or telekinesis; high-end would be reality warping (I should also mention, I don't ascribe to the Copenhagen interpretation, involving wavefunction collapse. I prefer the simpler, yet mind-boggling many-worlds interpretation).

Yeah, this is one of my favorite things to play with.

How do you get telepathy out of wavefunction collapse?

Originally posted by Lestov16
What if someone gained the ability to perceive quantum wave function superpositions and choose the eigenstate which the wave function collapses to. What are the potential applications of this power?

LhKp72c6xCY

It's called yoctorobotics, technologies a thousand years ahead of our time. Able to manipulate what is currently known as quantum particles. Imagine reshaping matter, turning any mass sitting around (I.E. a large hunk of granite) into a microwave, given it has equal total mass to the microwave.

Over 9000, obviously.

Originally posted by Lestov16
How do you get telepathy out of wavefunction collapse? Remember, I'm not a Copenhagen fan. In the many-worlds model, there is no wavefunction collapse, just new realities blossoming into being every time the universe does one thing instead of another.

The thing with quantum stuff is, one has to stop thinking about energy in the usual classical, Newtonian sense, like a beam of light, or sound waves or a lightning bolt going from point A to point B. There is no telepathic energy, per se. One of the best ways to grasp this is the diner scene in the movie, "Groundhog Day."

This is the scene where Phil (Bill Murray) is telling Rita (Andie MacDowell) everything he knows: when certain events are going to happen (eg, dropped dishes), or vital info about complete strangers (eg, she makes sounds like a chipmunk). To Rita and everyone else, it seems like Phil is precognitive and telepathic, but in reality, there is an altogether different, underlying mechanism responsible for both "powers": he is experiencing another reality where he is privy to this information (via conventional means yet).

From my immediate reality, psiconsciously I might find the one where my best friend Joe Schmo tells me his Social Security #. I now have this information I can use in my immediate reality where Mr. Schmo is my sworn enemy. I can even say to him, "Wanna see me read your mind?"

^To a Type Zero Civilization like us...this ability entails omnipotence.

With all powers, telepathy, matter manipulation, and many things we cannot imagine so easily if at all. The total implication is truly ungraspable from any human perspective. It's posthuman stuff.

Groundhog Day, huh?

I have a trivia for you Mindtrip, in that movie there were two body gaurds, one named Muse, my middle is the same as the other's first. What was his name? It starts with a R.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Over 9000, obviously.

I could pose as Jesus with this power.

I could snap my finger and every single maimed or injured sould on this planet would be healed. Or I could clap my hands and every single edlerly person would be kids again. Or I could go to the weight room, take a bar bell, slap every 100 pound plate that will fit onto each side, and pick it up with my left and and start running around the gym twirling it in my palm creating enough centriphical force to generate hurricane winds. I could jump, land, and balance atop the spire of the Sears/Willis Tower.

I could break the sound barrier with a sprint. I could make people fall in love with me without dominating their free will. I could blink and ever person who ever died on this planet would be ressurected as their youths, in perfect form...then turn the planet into a golden garden city with a perfect climate deep within majestic mountain ranges that dwarf the tallest mounatins and volcanos on the martian surface...so that there would be a hundred billion perfect people with IQs over a thousand living in a paradise.

Originally posted by Dolos
I have a trivia for you Mindtrip, in that movie there were two body guards, one named Muse, my middle is the same as the other's first. What was his name? It starts with a R.

I have no idea.

Originally posted by Dolos
I could snap my finger and every single maimed or injured sould on this planet would be healed. Or I could clap my hands and every single edlerly person would be kids again. Or I could go to the weight room, take a bar bell, slap every 100 pound plate that will fit onto each side, and pick it up with my left and and start running around the gym twirling it in my palm creating enough centriphical force to generate hurricane winds. I could jump, land, and balance atop the spire of the Sears/Willis Tower.

I could break the sound barrier with a sprint. I could make people fall in love with me without dominating their free will. I could blink and ever person who ever died on this planet would be ressurected as their youths, in perfect form...then turn the planet into a golden garden city with a perfect climate deep within majestic mountain ranges that dwarf the tallest mounatins and volcanos on the martian surface...so that there would be a hundred billion perfect people with IQs over a thousand living in a paradise. Able to pull remote probabilities from complex wavefunctions. Nice.

@.@

Originally posted by Scarlet Fox
@.@

Did we blow up your brain?

Mehbeh..

Originally posted by Scarlet Fox
Mehbeh..

Spelling would indicate.

Oh pshaw. I have spelled Maybe like that for years.... o.o but yeah my Brain went 'Poof' with all the big words.

Originally posted by Scarlet Fox
Oh pshaw. I have spelled Maybe like that for years.... o.o but yeah my Brain went 'Poof' with all the big words.

Stop it. Stop trying to make me feel like my head is big.

Originally posted by Dolos
I could pose as Jesus with this power.

I could snap my finger and every single maimed or injured sould on this planet would be healed. Or I could clap my hands and every single edlerly person would be kids again. Or I could go to the weight room, take a bar bell, slap every 100 pound plate that will fit onto each side, and pick it up with my left and and start running around the gym twirling it in my palm creating enough centriphical force to generate hurricane winds. I could jump, land, and balance atop the spire of the Sears/Willis Tower.

I could break the sound barrier with a sprint. I could make people fall in love with me without dominating their free will. I could blink and ever person who ever died on this planet would be ressurected as their youths, in perfect form...then turn the planet into a golden garden city with a perfect climate deep within majestic mountain ranges that dwarf the tallest mounatins and volcanos on the martian surface...so that there would be a hundred billion perfect people with IQs over a thousand living in a paradise.

Sounds like paradise

Sounds Boring. And jesus didnt have THAT much power. If anything it would be 'God'. Though there is a reason why he/she doesnt do all that and make life a perfect world.

Originally posted by Scarlet Fox
Sounds Boring. And jesus didnt have THAT much power. If anything it would be 'God'. Though there is a reason why he/she doesnt do all that and make life a perfect world.

There's this quandry that no matter how good technology makes life for us, we will still find reasons to be unhappy in some way or another....as long as we're still human.

You see I'd imagine that if technology can make us Gods, than technology can cure negative thought....thus paradise. I believe there's always work to be done, progress to be made, even for Gods.

That's just my belief, paradise is possible, and it's not boring at all. These quatum particles are real, this techonology could be real, is that really boring.

"You can look at life in one of two ways: nothing's a miracle, or, everything is a miracle."

That's Einstein.

Issues like scope (how many such wavefunctions is the individual able to process at once from how large of a space) or whether the individual is dependent on scientific understanding of these functions to manipulate them are going to be far more important.

Processing so many possible outcomes of even a dozen sub atomic particles will be beyond the capacity of any human to do, let alone anything that would allow the manipulation of matter the size of a penny, but beyond that, it is a power that sort of lets you define how strong it is.

Originally posted by Scarlet Fox
Sounds Boring.

idk, very powerful beings that have regular human flaws (imagine this person doesn't understand quantum physics, but has these powers... a more interesting character and a way to play with different motivations, etc)

agreed though, this power on an unlimited scale would be uninteresting

Originally posted by Oliver North
Issues like scope (how many such wavefunctions is the individual able to process at once from how large of a space) or whether the individual is dependent on scientific understanding of these functions to manipulate them are going to be far more important.

Processing so many possible outcomes of even a dozen sub atomic particles will be beyond the capacity of any human to do, let alone anything that would allow the manipulation of matter the size of a penny, but beyond that, it is a power that sort of lets you define how strong it is.



idk, very powerful beings that have regular human flaws (imagine this person doesn't understand quantum physics, but has these powers... a more interesting character and a way to play with different motivations, etc)

agreed though, this power on an unlimited scale would be uninteresting

I don't think there are any limits.

You find it boring because you cannot imagine obstacles or new possibilities to study. They say there are limits to intelligence, but maybe there are other things out there that have not yet come to exist, things like intelligence, but with higher limits.

People will say, "Omnipotence, that's all there is." I say there could be something greater.

Originally posted by Mindship
From my immediate reality, psiconsciously I might find the one where my best friend Joe Schmo tells me his Social Security #. I now have this information I can use in my immediate reality where Mr. Schmo is my sworn enemy. I can even say to him, "Wanna see me read your mind?".

Under many-worlds your actually not any more accurate than anyone else, you're just ignoring your mistakes.

Illium & Olympos on crack.

Let's say it works on a sub-conscious level and the individual doesn't have to be scientifically literate. We'll say they can manipulate one yottagram at a time. What could they do, in terms of rearranging subatomic particles and thus transmuting, materializing, or disintegrating matter? Also, how would energy play into this? Is energy also composed of fermions or bosons, or some other quanta that has a wavefunction?

Let's suppose one looked at their living room, but through the "superposition viewer". They would see every possible state that their living room could exist in (it could be the room, the room with a bed in it, a garden, SeaWorld, a solar system, etc., do to it being every possible state of every quantum particle) simultaneously and select the eigenstate of preference. Is that within the capabilities of this power?

Whether energy really has a waveform or not doesn't really matter since all of the things that transmit energy have waveforms. AFAIK bosons (like photons and the Higgs) are the force carriers.

It sounds like you just want a "sciency" way to say "he has total control over matter and energy". If you can think of anything that involves matter or energy he would have total control over it, simple as that. A yottagram isn't a lot on a planetary scale turning the Earth into a cube would take him a while.

The more interesting stuff comes when you free yourself of sciency phrases that you lack the decades of study needed to understand and just take a sciencey look at what you can do with the Power Cosmic you've given this character. I'd suggest looking at Orion's Arm. They have lots of technologies that merely have the requirement that they not be impossible.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Let's suppose one looked at their living room, but through the "superposition viewer". They would see every possible state that their living room could exist in (it could be the room, the room with a bed in it, a garden, SeaWorld, a solar system, etc., do to it being every possible state of every quantum particle) simultaneously and select the eigenstate of preference. Is that within the capabilities of this power?

I'm not sure you're really picturing how many possible states there are for every particle in the universe. Besides "bed with a room in it" there is "bed with a room in it and one electron in the bed having a different spin" and "bed with a room in it and one fewer photon inside" and "bed with a room in it and a different election in the bed having a different spin". There's also an infinite number of identical empty voids to enjoy.

The result wouldn't be "you see everything" it would be "you see nothing".

Originally posted by Dolos
I don't think there are any limits.

You find it boring because you cannot imagine obstacles or new possibilities to study. They say there are limits to intelligence, but maybe there are other things out there that have not yet come to exist, things like intelligence, but with higher limits.

something cannot be higher than infinite... your complaint fails to see that such a limit is tautologically at odds with the power-set.

hence why I made the example of a character with human limitations, which (idk, maybe it is my lack of creativity) seems much more compelling.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Let's say it works on a sub-conscious level and the individual doesn't have to be scientifically literate. We'll say they can manipulate one yottagram at a time. What could they do, in terms of rearranging subatomic particles and thus transmuting, materializing, or disintegrating matter? Also, how would energy play into this? Is energy also composed of fermions or bosons, or some other quanta that has a wavefunction?

they have innate understanding of how matter and energy interact and can manipulate a mass roughly equal to the pacific ocean not only in terms of its sub atomic properties, but probability of how those sub atomic properties arrange themselves?

I think you could make them do anything so long as it doesn't break that mass threshold... like, is there some specific feat you are looking for that would require a more nuanced understanding of the science? You are describing probability manipulation on a massive scale. Mid-High herald I'd say, if you want those terms.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Let's suppose one looked at their living room, but through the "superposition viewer". They would see every possible state that their living room could exist in (it could be the room, the room with a bed in it, a garden, SeaWorld, a solar system, etc., do to it being every possible state of every quantum particle) simultaneously and select the eigenstate of preference. Is that within the capabilities of this power?

provided you give him the power to do that in terms of his brain being able to process that much information at a single time, he would be able to do that for as much mass as is ~equal to the mass of the Pacific Ocean

http://wordinfo.info/unit/2341/ip:1/il:Y

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
just take a sciencey look at what you can do with the Power Cosmic you've given this character.

that's what I'm trying to do is determine the scope. could an individual with this power create a universe, or only reshape it?

Originally posted by Oliver North
I think you could make them do anything so long as it doesn't break that mass threshold... like, is there some specific feat you are looking for that would require a more nuanced understanding of the science? .

What I am trying to find out is could one exnihilate (create out of nothing) elementary fermions and bosons (including gravitons and Higgs bosons), and even universes, using wavefunction collapse, or does WFC only allow for the reshaping of particles.

Originally posted by Lestov16
that's what I'm trying to do is determine the scope. could an individual with this power create a universe, or only reshape it?

it depends how much energy it takes to create a universe.

If it could be done with the energy of the mass of the Pacific Ocean (ours could not be) then yes.

Conversely, given that the character changes probability, they could always just find the probability that a universe with the properties it wants exists in the mass it can manipulate.

sort of a backwards way of doing it. Not able to "create" it from scratch, but pull it pre-formed from the sort of sea of infinite possibilities it can access.

Originally posted by Lestov16
What I am trying to find out is could one exnihilate (create out of nothing) elementary fermions and bosons (including gravitons and Higgs bosons), and even universes, using wavefunction collapse, or does WFC only allow for the reshaping of particles.

as I said above, it is possible if, say, converting the mass of the ocean into energy was enough to do what you are looking for (I don't know if quark-gluon plasma is primitive enough to qualify for what you are talking about, but that requires the energy of sub atomic particles colliding at near the speed of light).

I think you are sort of underplaying the creative power behind this character for more of a brute force method. It would be interesting from a character perspective, ie, the limitation is that they only try to use energy to blast a universe into existence rather than taking one out of the "ether", but ultimately, they don't need to "do" anything, simply just find the probability where it already is real and "summon" that.

sorry, dp

Originally posted by Lestov16
that's what I'm trying to do is determine the scope. could an individual with this power create a universe, or only reshape it?

No one knows how the universe was created so you, as the writer, get to choose.

not directly, if their only power is to effect the probability of sub atomic particles themselves. In theory, the probability of something that is impossible is 0, so if the second law of thermodynamics is impossible, there would be no place on the wave function that represented "perpetual motion".

However, given you are the author, and you said the character isn't limited by our own scientific understandings, a line like "normal people don't appreciate what is possible, boxing themselves in with 'laws'. If they opened their minds, they could see the true reality." then have them make a perpetual motion machine.

edit: our universe has that weight, yes, we don't know what it takes to create any universe however.

Originally posted by Oliver North
it depends how much energy it takes to create a universe.

If it could be done with the energy of the mass of the Pacific Ocean (ours could not be) then yes.

Conversely, given that the character changes probability, they could always just find the probability that a universe with the properties it wants exists in the mass it can manipulate.

sort of a backwards way of doing it. Not able to "create" it from scratch, but pull it pre-formed from the sort of sea of infinite possibilities it can access.



as I said above, it is possible if, say, converting the mass of the ocean into energy was enough to do what you are looking for (I don't know if quark-gluon plasma is primitive enough to qualify for what you are talking about, but that requires the energy of sub atomic particles colliding at near the speed of light).

I think you are sort of underplaying the creative power behind this character for more of a brute force method. It would be interesting from a character perspective, ie, the limitation is that they only try to use energy to blast a universe into existence rather than taking one out of the "ether", but ultimately, they don't need to "do" anything, simply just find the probability where it already is real and "summon" that.

I understand the possibilities of this. One would basically see the world as a clay and reshape it, but I would like a character who can create their won universes, where they are unbound by physics or even logic. They could create worlds where 2/0=fish, and other mathematical impossibilities. Are such impossibilities within the wavefunction?

Originally posted by Oliver North
not directly, if their only power is to effect the probability of sub atomic particles themselves. In theory, the probability of something that is impossible is 0, so if the second law of thermodynamics is impossible, there would be no place on the wave function that represented "perpetual motion".

However, given you are the author, and you said the character isn't limited by our own scientific understandings, a line like "normal people don't appreciate what is possible, boxing themselves in with 'laws'. If they opened their minds, they could see the true reality." then have them make a perpetual motion machine.

edit: our universe has that weight, yes, we don't know what it takes to create any universe however.

Alright, I understand.

Let's look at their basic powers though. Could they look at a room and morph it into SeaWorld?

yes

Let's say they wanted to teleport. Could they do so? Is it physically possible that there is a universe where one could go from say the North Pole to a McDonalds in Times Square?

I'd imagine there is a non-zero probability that each of the atoms in your body are in probably any location, especially if the character can effect each individually, meaning they don't all have to be there at the same time

Originally posted by Lestov16
I understand the possibilities of this. One would basically see the world as a clay and reshape it, but I would like a character who can create their won universes, where they are unbound by physics or even logic. They could create worlds where 2/0=fish, and other mathematical impossibilities. Are such impossibilities within the wavefunction?

I feel like your committing a rather damaging error in the way you're approaching this. Not every question has an answer. If you demand an answer long enough when there isn't one eventually you'll just get a wrong answer. Right now no one knows how to create any kind of universe. The answer might be within the mathematics of wave function or it might not be. The absolute truth of the matter is that we don't know (and that's okay).

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
If you demand an answer long enough when there isn't one eventually you'll just get a wrong answer.

subtle

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Under many-worlds your actually not any more accurate than anyone else, you're just ignoring your mistakes. Basically, the many-worlds spin fascinates the hell out of me, especially for its inherent infinity-from-simplicity. I also enjoy the "psi" coincidence between parapsych and quantum mechanics.

My main point really is to highlight how separate and apparently distinct "powers" may be best interpreted through a single, common, underlying mechanism, something (in this case) nonNewtonian. Also, these abilities (at least as I understand it) postulate a reality where consciousness, not matter, is the final reality, which raises its own host of issues.

As for what other posters have been asking / stating regarding the limits of this ability...first of all, Colonel North brought up a good point: if I tap, eg, my wavefunction to make all my atoms vibrate in the same direction at the same time (ta-daa: flight), do I have to "touch" every atom, or does manipulating the collective wavefunction suffice?

Accordingly, I postulated that influencing simpler wavefunctions to do simple things (eg, bending EM waves around me) is much easier than turning a sofa into a table (working with more complex wavefunctions), or locally changing the laws of physics. Inherent in this is that, the challenge to influencing stuff is determined by the complexity of the wavefunction and the remoteness of the probability being looked for / tapped. Newtonian factors (eg, mass, distance) are relevant only to the extent that the psiconscious being thinks they are.

Ultimately, since this ability is fictional, it is up to the writer to determine the parameters for a given story. Eg, in one backstory, I state it takes about 200,000 years to become "godlike."

Let's suppose one had control over the most complex wavefunction of all, the universal wavefunction. What would be the limit to the universe they could create.

What I mean is how limited would the universe be, in terms of physics, mathematics, and logic. Is the universal wavefunction:

- all possible universes that have the set initial conditions of the Big Bang(thus every possible subatomic configuration that we could conceive of and thus every object that could physically exist in our set-physical law universe),


-is it all possible universes with all possible physical laws that could have been created by the set initial conditions of the Big Bang,

-is it all possible universe with all possible physical laws of all possible initial conditions (and thus all possible physical existence),

-is it all possible and impossible universes (thus all possible information patterns)

-or something beyond this (which the human mind can not conceive of)

Which one of these best describes the universal wave function? I'm thinking only the first, but I must be sure.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Let's suppose one had control over the most complex wavefunction of all, the universal wavefunction. What would be the limit to the universe they could create.

What I mean is how limited would the universe be, in terms of physics, mathematics, and logic. Is the universal wavefunction:

- all possible universes that have the set initial conditions of the Big Bang(thus every possible subatomic configuration that we could conceive of and thus every object that could physically exist in our set-physical law universe),


-is it all possible universes with all possible physical laws that could have been created by the set initial conditions of the Big Bang,

-is it all possible universe with all possible physical laws of all possible initial conditions (and thus all possible physical existence),

-is it all possible and impossible universes (thus all possible information patterns)

-or something beyond this (which the human mind can not conceive of)

Which one of these best describes the universal wave function? I'm thinking only the first, but I must be sure. Good questions, and I can answer only in the context of my character/story universe.

As it so happens, in 200,000 years, a character would be able to access the universe's wavefunction: specifically, the wavefunction associated with our particular Hubble volume. In this context, the Psi God can manipulate all the fundamental forces, as well as the spacetime continuum, down to the Planck scale. This would allow, eg, recalibrating physical laws (at least locally). Energy and matter manip would all fall under here.

Limitations? If there is a multiverse with an infinitude of Hubble volumes -- each with its own wavefunction -- I would think a Psi God would not automatically be able to do much in these other spacetimes.

Again, these would be writer-determined parameters.

Also, I don't see this as an Omega Point in human evolution, let's say. Since this psiconscious-able universe is ultimately founded on Consciousness, not Matter, I would 'argue' that archetypal forces ("divine," to use a loaded worded) would supercede psiconsciousness.

I could go on and on with this. But the main points are: to think about "psychic" or superpower abilities in a new light, and that the informed writer is as much an "expert" as anyone else when it comes to where we can go with this.

Human evolution? Human evolution has already stopped. Then comes the evolution of silicon based life forms after a technological Singularity spawns human level AI. Then of psiconscious waves, then they inherit the Omega Point of Intellectual Evolution that humans almost never even played a role in, we will have played a fraction of a fraction of a role by creating AI that's smarter than us.

Originally posted by Mindship
As for what other posters have been asking / stating regarding the limits of this ability...first of all, Colonel North brought up a good point: if I tap, eg, my wavefunction to make all my atoms vibrate in the same direction at the same time (ta-daa: flight), do I have to "touch" every atom, or does manipulating the collective wavefunction suffice?

Is velocity actually defined by the wave function? I know position is.

If we had a list of things that the wave function defines then we'd have a much better starting point. The only things I've been able to find say "all physical properties" which is vague or "all measurable properties" which is vague and exactly the kind of thing quantum woo is built from (even if we can measure "awesomeness" the wave function will not contain information about it).

Wikipedia mentions repeatedly that one of Schrodinger's assumptions was that conservation of energy holds true, which suggests that controlling the wave function doesn't let you get energy from nothing. I suspect that other conservation laws are assumed as well.

The wave function is just a mathematical construct. Controlling the collective wave function shouldn't be any different from controlling each particle's wave function. Similarly adding 5 is not different from adding 1 five times.

Originally posted by Mindship
This would allow, eg, recalibrating physical laws (at least locally).

I'm fairly certain this much isn't true. You could make the universe act like the laws of physics were different but once you stopped deliberately controlling things it would go back to normal. Like holding a rock in my hand doesn't mean I've recalibrating the local laws of gravity, they still apply.

Originally posted by Dolos
Human evolution? Human evolution has already stopped. Then comes the evolution of silicon based life forms after a technological Singularity spawns human level AI. Orion's Arm? Very cool site.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
If we had a list of things that the wave function defines then we'd have a much better starting point. The only things I've been able to find say "all physical properties" which is vague or "all measurable properties" which is vague and exactly the kind of thing quantum woo is built from (even if we can measure "awesomeness" the wave function will not contain information about it).

Wikipedia mentions repeatedly that one of Schrodinger's assumptions was that conservation of energy holds true, which suggests that controlling the wave function doesn't let you get energy from nothing. I suspect that other conservation laws are assumed as well.

The wave function is just a mathematical construct. Controlling the collective wave function shouldn't be any different from controlling each particle's wave function. Similarly adding 5 is not different from adding 1 five times.There is some debate about whether the wavefunction is just a mathematical construct or if it is a real entity.

http://scitechdaily.com/quantum-theorists-state-that-wavefunctions-are-real-states-not-just-statistical-tools/

http://phys.org/news/2012-05-paper-controversy-nature-quantum-function.html

Obviously, for my fictional purposes, I prefer the latter. As for manipulating probabilities regarding position, momentum, etc, my understanding (limited that it be) is that the probability state must be internally consistent with regard to how it all adds up. It's not an "anything goes" situation...especially if you consider some of the probabilities involved. Case in point...

"10^10^42
According to Crandall , mathematician John Littlewood of Cambridge calculated the probability of a mouse surviving on the surface of the sun for a period of one week, based on the liklihood of a suitable number of random fluctuations (brownian motion or quantum fluctuations) to give it a suitable environment for that period of time. This is like Kasner and Newman's thought experiment ( pp. 24-25) in which one imagines the odds of a book jumping up into your hand (which they estimate as "between 1/googol and 1/googolplex"."

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I'm fairly certain this much isn't true. You could make the universe act like the laws of physics were different but once you stopped deliberately controlling things it would go back to normal. Like holding a rock in my hand doesn't mean I've recalibrating the local laws of gravity, they still apply. I've tended to interpret such an ability as, essentially, making a pocket universe, or a subspace which harbors the set of recalibrated constants. Would it require constant attention? Upon close examination, perhaps (although, haven't there been superheroes who have been able to set-up independent/standing-wave forcefields?). This could be another limitation, like internal consistency. But then, a being with such consciousness could split-off a subfunction to keep it going, yada yada yada...

Good story ideas though. Limitations ---> problems, even for a psi god.

Originally posted by Mindship
Orion's Arm? Very cool site.



You assume that's my entire background?

That website is ridicolous. Anything that tries to predict the future is ridiculous, but the website claims that our civilization will progress according to the Kardashev scale. Why?? Why would we waste effort creating ways to harness all of earth energy, all of the solar system's energy, all of the galaxy's energy, when complexity and miniturization of technologies or technology like quantum manipulating mechanisms allow us to be Yahweh, Doctor Manhattan, The Dark Phoenix, Molecule Man, The Silver Surfer??

In a thousand years, with yoctomechanisms, we would be stylized avatars "pulling remote probabilities from complex wavefunctions" to reshape our realities, or at least I would.

That would be recreational, we would be compelled to flex our creative muscles, but we would also be compelled to study and improve our knowledge. Who knows what kind of weird extra-multi-versal-abstracts, or para-brane-phenomona a civilization of those beings would be delving into.

Originally posted by Dolos
You assume that's my entire background?I figured you were at least familiar with it.

Originally posted by Dolos
That website is ridicolous. Anything that tries to predict the future is ridiculous, but the website claims that our civilization will progress according to the Kardashev scale. Why?? Why would we waste effort creating ways to harness all of earth energy, all of the solar system's energy, all of the galaxy's energy, when complexity and miniturization of technologies or technology like quantum manipulating mechanisms allow us to be Yahweh, Doctor Manhattan, The Dark Phoenix, Molecule Man, The Silver Surfer??

In a thousand years, with yoctomechanisms, we would be stylized avatars "pulling remote probabilities from complex wavefunctions" to reshape our realities, or at least I would.

That would be recreational, we would be compelled to flex our creative muscles, but we would also be compelled to study and improve our knowledge. Who knows what kind of weird extra-multi-versal-abstracts, or para-brane-phenomona a civilization of those beings would be delving into. I like Orion's Arm, though I find the participants too mired in backstory to produce good fiction. But I like their dedication to "hard" scifi...which may seem odd, given the psiconscious thing. To that end, I like to exploit Clarke's third law.

Yeah, overall I definitely agree with you about the future. The only thing predictable about it is that it is unpredictable. Or to paraphrase Sagan, it's not going to look like anything we are currently imagining.

I know how Sheldon Cooper feels when he realizes all the great future stuff he's going to miss.

The scientist Sheldon would come across Ray Kurzweil's work, and think:

"Maybe I can live forever."

There's a documentary called "Transcendant Man". In it the prodigious child-prodigy of engineering and physics Ray Kurzweil explains how "nanobots" could one day replace all human cells as said human lives and breathes. Transforming a human being into immortal technology. If BBT's Sheldon had this done to him, he could "ride the transcendental evolution of intelligence" right to the "omega point", and infinitely beyond that point to the omega point of whatever sentient-like phenomena intelligence is capable of creating or ascending to, and infinite progress beyond that.

Now talk about remote probabilities.

^ I should watch the TBBT reruns more closely. I don't recall Kurzweil ever being mentioned on the show...but he should've been, at least a few times already.

Originally posted by Mindship
^ I should watch the TBBT reruns more closely. I don't recall Kurzweil ever being mentioned on the show...but he should've been, at least a few times already.

While I understand how you could mistakenly interpret that Ray Kurzweil was mentioned from my response, that is not what I was saying.

I was saying if Sheldon Cooper had looked into Ray Kurzweil's work, and what he plans for the future, he may have made that distinction...as I have.

A lot of people wouldn't want this evolution, they wouldn't want to give up their humanity. Rationalizing that it would go against the will of "God". That's why there may really be a holy war to end holy wars.

I truly believe God is an imagined figure.

My belief, my religion, is that we created the idea of God, now we could create him in actuality...in the way I've explained in this thread. We could create the Gods and Godesses by each of us becoming one ourselves. I believe perhaps some such God somewhere created the existence we know for such a purpose. Out of a random act of benevolence, one of our future beings might be compelled to do the same after a few omega points of transcendence.

Just so I am clear, superposition manipulation=
-alteration of subatomic particle's position in space=
-rearrangement of subatomic particles into any physically possible configuration=
-matter/energy manipulation

Originally posted by Lestov16
Just so I am clear, superposition manipulation=
-alteration of subatomic particle's position in space=
-rearrangement of subatomic particles into any physically possible configuration=
-matter/energy manipulation

You can do more than matter/energy manipulation with that. You could do more with matter/energy manipulation than one might think. In fact, science doesn't know how much you could really do with this power. It goes into dimensional or spectral manipulations.

While we lack the understanding to know for sure, we possess the ability to imagine. That's what we're doing, isn't it?

Originally posted by ditto
http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/joe_dirt.gif

exactly..lol omg u made me laugh so hard.

Originally posted by Oliver North
something cannot be higher than infinite...
Georg Cantor disagrees with you. sneer

Originally posted by Dolos
While I understand how you could mistakenly interpret that Ray Kurzweil was mentioned from my response, that is not what I was saying. I know. It just occurred to me though that his name would've fit right in with the other scientists that have been mentioned or have appeared on the show.

Originally posted by Dolos
A lot of people wouldn't want this evolution, they wouldn't want to give up their humanity. Rationalizing that it would go against the will of "God". That's why there may really be a holy war to end holy wars.

I truly believe God is an imagined figure.

My belief, my religion, is that we created the idea of God, now we could create him in actuality...in the way I've explained in this thread. We could create the Gods and Godesses by each of us becoming one ourselves. I believe perhaps some such God somewhere created the existence we know for such a purpose. Out of a random act of benevolence, one of our future beings might be compelled to do the same after a few omega points of transcendence. At these levels, Clarke's third law would be in full swing.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Just so I am clear, superposition manipulation=
-alteration of subatomic particle's position in space=
-rearrangement of subatomic particles into any physically possible configuration=
-matter/energy manipulation I would say that the above is possible, at least within our speculative context. But based on the sound input of what others have been saying here, I would also say there may well be limitations, eg, all "end products" would have to be "internally (mathematically?) consistent," and some feats may require a constant expenditure of attention.

Originally posted by Mindship
there may well be limitations


I understand. That's why I said every physically possible (as we know it) universe. What I mean is that the universal wavefunction is limited to all possible universes with our set physical laws. Thus, the wavefunction would comprise of everything that could possibly exist under our set physical laws as created by the Big Bang (as we know it).

As such, the universal wavefunction does not include:

-universes/structures that could have arisen from different physical laws from ours (alterations of our physical laws, if you will) that could have possibly been produced by the Big Bang (as we know it)

-universes with different initial conditions and physical laws different than ours

-impossible universes that can't exist under any physical laws or initial conditions; pure information states

-something beyond that


Alrighty.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Alrighty. Works for me.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Let's say they wanted to teleport. I just saw this.

I would imagine something akin to a quantum-tunneling effect, or a quantum leap, like how electrons jump from one electron shell to another, would be doable. This always comes to my mind:
http://www.asi.riken.jp/en/laboratories/chieflabs/theory/images/fig1.jpg

Each peak represents the highest probability of an object's existence. Teleporting simply involves 'pressing down' a peak in one spot so that (at the same time) the peak rises somewhere else...almost like whack-a-mole.

I would do the opposite. Rather than travelling into a quantum subspace, I would travel into a 4d hyperspace, where I could see the 3d world as a flat plane and choose my location. Similarly, to time travel, I would travel to a 5d hyperspace.

Originally posted by Lestov16
I would do the opposite. Rather than travelling into a quantum subspace, I would travel into a 4d hyperspace, where I could see the 3d world as a flat plane and choose my location. I think I used that for phasing.

Ultimately, it is the writer who is God here.

Originally posted by Lestov16
I understand. That's why I said every physically possible (as we know it) universe. What I mean is that the universal wavefunction is limited to all possible universes with our set physical laws. Thus, the wavefunction would comprise of everything that could possibly exist under our set physical laws as created by the Big Bang (as we know it).

As such, the universal wavefunction does not include:

-universes/structures that could have arisen from different physical laws from ours (alterations of our physical laws, if you will) that could have possibly been produced by the Big Bang (as we know it)

-universes with different initial conditions and physical laws different than ours

-impossible universes that can't exist under any physical laws or initial conditions; pure information states

-something beyond that


Alrighty.

I would think you be surprised on what matter can be shaped into, given intelligences beyond our comprehension. To the most brilliant phsycist a being might as well be altering the physical laws of the universe.

A being might reshape the moon to where it has a face on it and a mouth that can work out the oral motions of the human mouth mirroring the english language, carrying frequencies in the form of spectral-like waves accross the void of space. Sent behind it's oral movements sound interpreted and made manifest by the surrounding nitrogen, oxygen, and argon present upon entering the earth's atmosphere, retaining the moon's clear speech without losing it's audibility. These instructive wave patterns would be sent out with a level of precise timing unimaginable by the human mind, the sound is simultaneous throughout the earth, present in every open area on the globe. These patterns, using that same precise timing, were already sent and dispersed within the atmosphere just long enough before the moon physically began it's speech. The words would fit the visual movement of the moon's mouth perfectly, despite light's astronomically superior speed to sound. The being could make it say, "You guys are so cool. NOT!"

Dolos is pretty much the most exaggerated demonstration of why physicists make poor neuro/biologists

Originally posted by Dolos
These instructive wave patterns would be sent out with a level of precise timing unimaginable by the human mind

derp, you mean like the wave patterns that create all other types of language that are specifically tuned to the temporal properties of human perception?

/lol

We could not percieve the level of timing in which this being is capable: Matching the sounds on earth with the light coming from the moving mouth we see on the lunar surface using only complex wavefunctions, with nothing but a view of incomprehensible quantum superpositions to go off of. He's using these perplex yoctoscopic instruments to coordinate a speech across millions of miles of emptiness, imagine all of the googols of variabilities and probabilities he must compute.

Hey now, no reason to get all silly mcmilly hostilly on me.

Don't worry, be happy.

I do admit I enjoy physics more than I do psychology and biology. Though math is where it's at.

that could be described with simple mathematics... for a signal traveling at Y speed to location X, modify by Z to arrive at time T.

the number of calculations would be beyond us, sure, but the timing is terribly simple (though bending it around the curvature of the earth so that people on the side facing away from the moon could see/hear it is otherwise impressive)

So where does my lack of neuro-scientific and biological literacy tie into this??

In fact, it's simply a lack of communication skills. pfft, comm skills...

I should have said "with precise timing requiring a number of calculations vast beyond imagining, each too complex for human understanding."

Does that suit you fancy or did I leave myself open for another jab at my intellect?

Originally posted by Dolos
We could not percieve the level of timing in which this being is capable: Matching the sounds on earth with the light coming from the moving mouth we see on the lunar surface using only complex wavefunctions, with nothing but a view of incomprehensible quantum superpositions to go off of. He's using these perplex yoctoscopic instruments to coordinate a speech across millions of miles of emptiness, imagine all of the googols of variabilities and probabilities he must compute.

Hey now, no reason to get all silly mcmilly hostilly on me.

Don't worry, be happy.

I do admit I enjoy physics more than I do psychology and biology. Though math is where it's at.
...... o.o ... wut?

Originally posted by Scarlet Fox
...... o.o ... wut?

Ya see, nobody understands me.

Maybe I'm just too dumb to communicate textually. Open your mind I am going to incept some ideas, and then put a ton of pictures into your brain.

I would rather my brain not be raped but words too big for Scrable. -pats-

You're missing out on a good time by closing your mind to me.

Originally posted by Dolos
So where does my lack of neuro-scientific and biological literacy tie into this??

In fact, it's simply a lack of communication skills. pfft, comm skills...

totally, who cares about whether you are able to properly convey what you mean to others, I'm with you man.

Originally posted by Dolos
I should have said "with precise timing requiring a number of calculations vast beyond imagining, each too complex for human understanding."

well, sure, but now its just an issue with you trying to be overly poetic. Humans can't imagine much more than 100, if that (we can only track like 8 objects at one time), and if "understanding" doesn't include mathematics, we can't comprehend most of the world around us.

I shouldn't have started it, is what "should" have happened

Originally posted by Dolos
Does that suit you fancy or did I leave myself open for another jab at my intellect?

when in doubt, play the martyr

Actually solving for each "Y speed to location X, modify by Z" would be beyond the computation of any current super-computer, much less a person due to the sheer numbers involved with all the variables and remote probabilities. Furthermore a human could never ever gather the neccessary data to plug into this equation because it requires fractal-vision, which, unlike eye-sight, would be too complicated for a human mind to understand anyway.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Over 9000, obviously. So far the only correct answer in this thread.

Originally posted by Dolos

I could break the sound barrier with a sprint. I could make people fall in love with me without dominating their free will. I could blink and ever person who ever died on this planet would be ressurected as their youths, in perfect form

so that there would be a hundred billion perfect people with IQs over a thousand living in a paradise.

How would you create (or recreate) those memories that defined that deceased individual?

Originally posted by Lestov16
How would you create (or recreate) those memories that defined that deceased individual? Reality ****ery?

Honestly I don't recall where I was with that.

Originally posted by Dolos
I have a trivia for you Mindtrip, in that movie there were two body gaurds, one named Muse, my middle is the same as the other's first. What was his name? It starts with a R.
Originally posted by Mindship
I have no idea.It's been 7 months. Still have no idea (**coughanswerpleasecough**)