KMC Writer's Tournament

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Blair Wind

Blair Wind

-Pr-
I'm up for writing, and I'm going to vote for 6-10 pages to make it fair to everyone.

Oliver North
This sounds incredibly interesting. I'll tentatively throw my hat into the ring to write, but only if it is the 6-10 page option.

huh, what a day to lurk the vs forum...

Blair Wind
That's four people who have voted for the 6-10 page option (two being judges I recruited earlier). Unless people start objecting - which I doubt they will - I think that will be the page range. For comparison, Geoff Johns SHAZAM back ups were around 8-10 pages each.

For participants we currently have:
PR
Oliver North

For judges I have:
Galan
Newjak
Badabing

I'd love to have between 4-7 writer's involved. If you can think of anyone who might want to participate, PM them about this.

Oliver North
it might be the early Friday night drinking talking, but big ups Blair, this is a really cool idea

-Pr-
That does raise an interesting question. It'll be hard to do a sprawling arc with only 6-10 pages, so maybe I'll rethink the stories I had in mind...

Oliver North
60 pages isn't much, I agree, especially if you want to tell a story with pictures :/

I just wouldn't have the time to put into 20 pages sad

Blair Wind
We could always make the range 8-15 pages. Middle ground for those who want shorter stories and those wanting just a little bit more room to write.

-Pr-
8-15 could work too.

Oliver North
I'm fairly sure I could hit 8 in a month (2 per week) at a minimum...

just to clarify... I'm a terrible artist, but what if I think a visual is the best way to convey a point? I mean, art is as much a part of comics as is the story, and I'm the first person (seriously, look it up) who will complain about splash pages, but what if the point I want to prove is visual more than verbal? it seems like the set up is biased toward dialogue? (really just curious, not a critique at all)

-Pr-
The best thing that I've found is to just use the prose sections. Comics are a visual medium, and while the dialogue has to be good, so does the image you're trying to convey.

If you want to get a picture in to people's heads, just be as vivid as you can be.

psycho gundam
ms paint

-Pr-
laughing out loud

Oliver North
smile I'm totally cool with MS paint, I guess I just mean, if I want to waste a page trying to describe something visually (especially given my lack of cpu artistic talent), can I do that, or am I stuck with describing based on movie-esque script style?

psycho gundam
i used it in...2-3 tournaments, and maybe 5 matches

Blair Wind
If you really want to use a visual, go for it. I just thought it would be infinitely easier to do a writing competition without visuals - and you can be quite compelling even in just a script format.

This was also to prove that you could do the job of a comic book writer to the rest of KMC. I wouldn't be opposed to having images be a side thing - as in you write the issue you want (8-15 pages) and then have images to go with it showing how it would look in an actual comic (ie: this would be the image for page 7).

No one should feel forced to do that if they don't want to, but I do understand your concern O.N. Like I said, do it if you want, but the judges won't give you any extra points for doing so - just make sure it helps your story in some way.

leonidas
this sounds interesting. i'd consider writing something but tbh the format is not one i like at all. the script format works well for movies and live stuff because it can be translated later to INCLUDE the visual component. in this case, i think the script format would greatly limit the ability to convey what will REMAIN a purely literary creation. a standard, novel style would allow a great deal more freedom, and likely be a lot easier to judge and read. as well, it would have the benefit of being able to convey more information in a shorter amount of time. a 30 pg comic could likely be written in a novel format in....for SURE less than 10 pages. the script format, to me, seems to be simply a contest of who can write better dialogue. if a novel style is available, i'd be in, otherwise i'll pass. cool idea, regardless.

Blair Wind
A novel format would make the entire concept of proving you can write a better comic like script than current comic book writers completely null and void. These guys don't have the advantage of writing in a novel style and having all the benefits that come from that. Yes, they can supplement that with images, but that's something we can't accomplish in this scenario unless we have some artists who want to take on the challenge with the writers.

Also, I have to disagree with the concept that scripts only become a dialogue contest - I've read a ton of scripts that draw me in because of who writes them, with the dialogue not even being part of it. You are making the assumption that you can't put your own voice into the writing or that they are somehow unappealing and bland. Good writing is good writing.

If anyone wants to see a movie script, just PM me. I have a decent amount.

leonidas
cool. i disagree with you though but not for the reasons you may think. novels aren't written in script form BECAUSE they remain purely literary. like these stories will. scripts are written with the INTENT of having a visual component--and most comics (once one has become a pro or semi-pro) are written in CONJUNCTION with an artist who helps with the visual ideas. since these stories will not have either an artist to help formulate the visuals, or any hope of becoming real comics or movies, the script is very limiting in the sense that the author can't create visuals in a traditional sense. i've read (and even helped edit) a few scripts as well, and can say with all honesty that while some have been good, a good script can't equal a good book, imho. why? because a script is an unrealized creation. once the script becomes what it is SUPPOSED to be (a movie/play) well, that's a different story altogether. and if good writing is indeed good writing, then the format shouldn't really matter.

anywho, good luck with the idea. thumb up

psycho gundam
i think what people are looking for is a screenplay

-Pr-
Originally posted by leonidas
cool. i disagree with you though but not for the reasons you may think. novels aren't written in script form BECAUSE they remain purely literary. like these stories will. scripts are written with the INTENT of having a visual component--and most comics (once one has become a pro or semi-pro) are written in CONJUNCTION with an artist who helps with the visual ideas. since these stories will not have either an artist to help formulate the visuals, or any hope of becoming real comics or movies, the script is very limiting in the sense that the author can't create visuals in a traditional sense. i've read (and even helped edit) a few scripts as well, and can say with all honesty that while some have been good, a good script can't equal a good book, imho. why? because a script is an unrealized creation. once the script becomes what it is SUPPOSED to be (a movie/play) well, that's a different story altogether. and if good writing is indeed good writing, then the format shouldn't really matter.

anywho, good luck with the idea. thumb up

I honestly don't agree to a point, unless I'm misunderstanding. I know that a lot of the times an artist will have input, even to a large extent, but unless they're writing the book too, the artist tends to take a back seat until the script arrives. Look at say, Geoff Johns for example. His scripts are pretty definitive in what he wants, and it's up to the artist to provide that.

I'm not saying that every writer is like that; obviously the levels of interaction are going to vary, but I honestly have no doubt that writers are able to give the reader something to visualise even without the artist's input.

Imo, in a lot of cases a comic book writer is a writer and a director at the same time.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
i think what people are looking for is a screenplay

Possibly.

leonidas
Originally posted by -Pr-
I honestly don't agree to a point, unless I'm misunderstanding. I know that a lot of the times an artist will have input, even to a large extent, but unless they're writing the book too, the artist tends to take a back seat until the script arrives. Look at say, Geoff Johns for example. His scripts are pretty definitive in what he wants, and it's up to the artist to provide that.

I'm not saying that every writer is like that; obviously the levels of interaction are going to vary, but I honestly have no doubt that writers are able to give the reader something to visualise even without the artist's input.

Imo, in a lot of cases a comic book writer is a writer and a director at the same time.



Possibly.

you could both be right on, and like i said, it's his idea so clearly if he's looking for script style prose, then that's what it is.

and i agree with you to a point as well--there is certainly SOME level of visuals produced via a script, but the details are explicit and simple--they are directions, as opposed to prose--because he's simply directing the artist what to draw, but the artist brings the writing to life. by that i mean the writer need not describe what the sky looks like beyond "it's night", and loads of other minutiae that would be required from another style. the description can afford to be sparse BECAUSE the artist will finish it. the script is an unfinished product in a movie or play is all's i'm saying.

now, to a different point--do comic writers ever USE scripts of this nature? if so, even more power to bw and his idea. but in any type of submission requirements i've ever seen, there has been no mention of script style submissions. nor was i aware of this style of writing being done pre-artistic rendering. but.....i could very well be wrong in that regard.

like i said, it's a cool idea, just not for me this style, but hopefully it garners a little attention from others.

-Pr-
Originally posted by leonidas
you could both be right on, and like i said, it's his idea so clearly if he's looking for script style prose, then that's what it is.

and i agree with you to a point as well--there is certainly SOME level of visuals produced via a script, but the details are explicit and simple--they are directions, as opposed to prose--because he's simply directing the artist what to draw, but the artist brings the writing to life. by that i mean the writer need not describe what the sky looks like beyond "it's night", and loads of other minutiae that would be required from another style. the description can afford to be sparse BECAUSE the artist will finish it. the script is an unfinished product in a movie or play is all's i'm saying.

now, to a different point--do comic writers ever USE scripts of this nature? if so, even more power to bw and his idea. but in any type of submission requirements i've ever seen, there has been no mention of script style submissions. nor was i aware of this style of writing being done pre-artistic rendering. but.....i could very well be wrong in that regard.

like i said, it's a cool idea, just not for me this style, but hopefully it garners a little attention from others.

I agree about the level of visual cues needed differing.

Use what kind? the screenplay kind?

This is the kind I've modelled myself on for a while; it's Johns' when he wrote Green Lantern (skip to the fourth page of the pdf for the actual comic):

http://comicbookscriptarchive.com/goods/geoffjohns/greenlantern1.pdf

Here's a Grant Morrison one too:

http://comicbookscriptarchive.com/goods/grantmorrison/Invisibles_1.txt

Endless Mike
Can you write a crossover featuring multiple characters/teams?

curryman
Like PR posted, the comic-book script is similar but a bit different from the movie script. I remember Kirkman also released some from the first Invincible issues he did.

I'd love to throw my hat in smile

leonidas
Originally posted by -Pr-
I agree about the level of visual cues needed differing.

Use what kind? the screenplay kind?

This is the kind I've modelled myself on for a while; it's Johns' when he wrote Green Lantern (skip to the fourth page of the pdf for the actual comic):

http://comicbookscriptarchive.com/goods/geoffjohns/greenlantern1.pdf

Here's a Grant Morrison one too:

http://comicbookscriptarchive.com/goods/grantmorrison/Invisibles_1.txt

huh. those are helpful. makes sense what bw's looking for in light of that. thanks. thumb up

still don't think that's up my alley, but i liked the second one better--a little less formal, i like that the panels are left out and there is less overall direction it seems to me. maybe i could do something in that style, but not sure that would be acceptable for this.

on a separate, but somewhat related topic--do you know why this group of forums doesn't have a fan-fic forum? i've seen other comic forums (have never joined or commented anywhere else though i don't think....) but the ones i've seen i THINK have a fan-fic section. has kmc ever considered starting one?

Newjak
Originally posted by leonidas
huh. those are helpful. makes sense what bw's looking for in light of that. thanks. thumb up

still don't think that's up my alley, but i liked the second one better--a little less formal, i like that the panels are left out and there is less overall direction it seems to me. maybe i could do something in that style, but not sure that would be acceptable for this.

on a separate, but somewhat related topic--do you know why this group of forums doesn't have a fan-fic forum? i've seen other comic forums (have never joined or commented anywhere else though i don't think....) but the ones i've seen i THINK have a fan-fic section. has kmc ever considered starting one? To answer your question on fan-fics.

We have the General Fiction area which allows people to right stories on whatever they want which would include fan-fiction if I'm not mistaken.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f53/

leonidas
Originally posted by Newjak
To answer your question on fan-fics.

We have the General Fiction area which allows people to right stories on whatever they want which would include fan-fiction if I'm not mistaken.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f53/

huh. again i learn something. smile doesn't seem too oft used though. maybe if this were posted there it might bump some hits over there? i didn't even know that forum existed. laughing out loud

Blair Wind
Originally posted by leonidas
huh. those are helpful. makes sense what bw's looking for in light of that. thanks. thumb up

still don't think that's up my alley, but i liked the second one better--a little less formal, i like that the panels are left out and there is less overall direction it seems to me. maybe i could do something in that style, but not sure that would be acceptable for this.

laughing out loud Leo, you have me so confused. The second example - Grant Morrison's - is almost identical to a movie script save how he has the persons name next to the dialogue and a few other minor details. In a script, the persons name is above their dialogue. But that's not that important. I also said not to include panels (mostly because we don't have artists to do anything with them). So, if you want to write in Grant Morrison's style, then go for it since it is just a slightly more lax version of what I had in mind. No one will be judging on margins or be strict on improper form. The idea was just to get as close to comic style writing as possible without worrying about artists (due to the inability to have people draw the stuff.) Thus, movie scripts seemed like the logical choice - or at least a variation of what we can do.

Just as an example of a pure movie script, here is Batman Begins:
http://media.nolanfans.com/screenplays/batmanbegins_script.pdf

Originally posted by curryman
Like PR posted, the comic-book script is similar but a bit different from the movie script. I remember Kirkman also released some from the first Invincible issues he did.

I'd love to throw my hat in smile

thumb up

So we have:
PR
Oliver North
Curry Man

Need at the very, very least two more writers.

Newjak
Originally posted by leonidas
huh. again i learn something. smile doesn't seem too oft used though. maybe if this were posted there it might bump some hits over there? i didn't even know that forum existed. laughing out loud Yeah it doesn't get much attention. I was involved in a general writing tournament back a couple of years that's how I knew about it stick out tongue.

leonidas
Originally posted by Blair Wind
laughing out loud Leo, you have me so confused. The second example - Grant Morrison's - is almost identical to a movie script save how he has the persons name next to the dialogue and a few other minor details. In a script, the persons name is above their dialogue. But that's not that important. I also said not to include panels (mostly because we don't have artists to do anything with them). So, if you want to write in Grant Morrison's style, then go for it since it is just a slightly more lax version of what I had in mind. No one will be judging on margins or be strict on improper form. The idea was just to get as close to comic style writing as possible without worrying about artists (due to the inability to have people draw the stuff.) Thus, movie scripts seemed like the logical choice - or at least a variation of what we can do.

Just as an example of a pure movie script, here is Batman Begins:
http://media.nolanfans.com/screenplays/batmanbegins_script.pdf



thumb up

So we have:
PR
Oliver North
Curry Man

Need at the very, very least two more writers.

yeah, i guess they are sorta the same. the one pr posted just had some pretty good between-panel writing. not fully fleshed out, but not simple direction either. i've never written anything like that before, but i may be up to give it try. it's a lot of work though. you likely don't need more than a couple writers though, do you? i mean even if you have just 2 or 3 they can still be read and judged, and that's the point, isn't it? hell, even if just ONE person wants to try their hand, at least it's something for others to read, something we wouldn't have been introduced to without this suggestion of yours.

on that note: do we have any published writers in the forum? anyone with websites that show their stuff?

Blair Wind
Yeah, we could technically do it with just the three participants we have now. I guess I just had 5 as the minimum amount of people I'd like to see doing this so everyone feels compelled to write their best - knowing others are doing the same. If no one else signs up, I'll still go through with it. thumb up

Let me know if you want to throw your hat into the ring for sure. Like Oliver said, you could write 2 pages a week and still make the minimum page count. And I'll be talking to the judges - this tournament isn't about making anyone feel bad. I don't want anyone to be overly critical of someone's writing - the point of the judging is to guide everyone to be a better writer and reward the person who's done the best overall.

curryman
I think it would be more fun if we had a couple more contestants smile

Newjak
Originally posted by leonidas
yeah, i guess they are sorta the same. the one pr posted just had some pretty good between-panel writing. not fully fleshed out, but not simple direction either. i've never written anything like that before, but i may be up to give it try. it's a lot of work though. you likely don't need more than a couple writers though, do you? i mean even if you have just 2 or 3 they can still be read and judged, and that's the point, isn't it? hell, even if just ONE person wants to try their hand, at least it's something for others to read, something we wouldn't have been introduced to without this suggestion of yours.

on that note: do we have any published writers in the forum? anyone with websites that show their stuff? Come on Leo I bet it would be fun for you to right some stories. I'd be interested in seeing what you cook up.

leonidas
gimme a couple days to think about it. i do think it would be fun, but getting the hang of the style would be tough. then, you know, there's the whole coming up with a story thing.... laughing out loud

Blair Wind
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Can you write a crossover featuring multiple characters/teams?

Yes.

-Pr-
I realised that I have a bunch of scenes I really want to write, but no arching plot. God dammit.

Badabing
I thought Digi would be all over this idea. Anyone know where he is?

Blair Wind
Nope. He hasn't been on since early January.

Bardock42
I like this idea. I am terrible with deadlines, but I think I could commit to writing 8 pages a month at least.

Blair Wind
Originally posted by Bardock42
I like this idea. I am terrible with deadlines, but I think I could commit to writing 8 pages a month at least.

thumb up We would be glad to have you. I think I will leave this open for the next week and a half to give anyone else a chance to join. Then we can start the rest of the process.

Endless Mike
I'm getting an idea for a Doctor Strange/Thor crossover...

Blair Wind
Judges
Badabing
Newjak
Galan

Participants:
PR
Oliver North
Curryman

Possibles:
Leonidas
Bardock
Endless Mike

Let me know if you three definitely decide you want to receive the honor and glory that comes from this tournament.

"It is not the critic who counts....The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly.... and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat."

smile

Newjak
Originally posted by Bardock42
I like this idea. I am terrible with deadlines, but I think I could commit to writing 8 pages a month at least. I expect you to enlist in this tourney uhuh

-Pr-
I have a general outline of my story in my head.

I'm going to be writing an X-Men story about Cyclops and Emma, and how they've been driven apart by what happened during AVX. There's also going to be some flashbacks where I retcon some little things from the distant past, and a side plot involving Colossus being pursued by the Avengers.

It's primarily a story about Cyclops coming to terms and being confronted with all the things that he's done over the past few years, but I'm hoping that it ties together somehow.

Blair Wind
thumb up

I am going to open up a thread in about a week for you guys to talk about what stories you want to tell, the characters in them, and what tone we might expect (action, drama, comedy, thriller?). So, be thinking about your ideas!

Gecko4lif
Im reading the rule sim interested

Starscream M
Originally posted by -Pr-
I realised that I have a bunch of scenes I really want to write, but no arching plot. God dammit. exactly my feeling as well...I have certain fight scenes I want to write, but don't really have an entire storyline

Blair Wind
Originally posted by Gecko4lif
anybody wanna team up with me in the writer tournament

Gecko is looking for a writing team up - if anyone who might be lurking but hasn't decided to join yet is interested, just PM him.

Originally posted by Starscream M
exactly my feeling as well...I have certain fight scenes I want to write, but don't really have an entire storyline

Character A needs/wants something (artifact, magical entity, money) and Character B thinks that they should not have it for reasons XYZ.

And then they fight. I mean, if you want to write a fighting action based story, just pick a subject two characters or groups disagree on.

Starscream M
Originally posted by Blair Wind

Character A needs/wants something (artifact, magical entity, money) and Character B thinks that they should not have it for reasons XYZ.

And then they fight. I mean, if you want to write a fighting action based story, just pick a subject two characters or groups disagree on. ok, count me in as a writer then

Blair Wind
And Starscream steps up to the plate!

Judges
Badabing
Newjak
Galan

Participants:
PR
Oliver North
Curryman
Starscream

Possibles:
Leonidas
Bardock
Endless Mike

Gecko4lif
Put me on participates

Is it weird ive already written issue 1?

Oliver North
Action oriented books might be even more difficult in this format than dialogue heavy ones, just because of the page minimums.

The frame by frame style of script would help, but short of very detailed descriptions of the art, there are probably going to be some solid "issues" that fail to make the 8 page mark. Just my 2cents on the matter, maybe a "soft limit" at the minimum? (ie: if it is a full issue, why punish people for concision?) Not a big deal for me, I'm trying to figure out how to write some action in...

Blair Wind
Originally posted by Gecko4lif
Put me on participates

Is it weird ive already written issue 1?

No Gecko, it's not weird. It's smart.

Judges
Badabing
Newjak
Galan

Participants:
PR
Oliver North
Curryman
Starscream
Gecko

Possibles:
Leonidas
Bardock
Endless Mike

Originally posted by Oliver North
Action oriented books might be even more difficult in this format than dialogue heavy ones, just because of the page minimums.

The frame by frame style of script would help, but short of very detailed descriptions of the art, there are probably going to be some solid "issues" that fail to make the 8 page mark. Just my 2cents on the matter, maybe a "soft limit" at the minimum? (ie: if it is a full issue, why punish people for concision?) Not a big deal for me, I'm trying to figure out how to write some action in...

If you want to write action, look at the example I gave in the rules:
http://www.oscars.org/awards/nicholl/scriptsample.pdf

I can see action scenes taking up more space than other things in a script actually - especially if you use the method described above.

I'm not going to be very strict on maximum pages (As long as it doesn't go over a reasonable amount, and please, be kind to the judges), but the minimum has to be at least 6-8 pages. I can't see anyone going any lower than that and it not affecting the writing.

Starscream M
is it 6-8 pages singlespaced or doubled space? makes a huge difference

Blair Wind
Originally posted by Starscream M
is it 6-8 pages singlespaced or doubled space? makes a huge difference

Look at the examples I've given already. If I was using Word, I'd personally use single place for the prose sections, double space for character name, and then single space for dialogue so I could have more space - but that's just me. I use Final Draft though and it automatically edits everything for me. You can get a 30 day free trial demo if you want to try it out (it only lets you write up to 15 pages for the demo, but that shouldn't be a problem).

Lek Kuen
I suppose I'll give this a go.

Oliver North
I know a lot of stuff is still up in the air, but I'm trying to budget my time with school/work stuff, when is the earliest that a full proposal of my idea would be due? not trying to get a solid date or anything, just sort of wondering how urgent getting all the threads I've got going on in my head together is.

Also, I agree, less than 6-8 pages will hurt the writing, I was just wondering about more action oriented stuff. I'll admit, I don't have a lot of experience with writing, but save a full description of panel-by-panel art, I don't see how action oriented stuff would be longer than dialogue, but this could be an entire misconception on my part, haha smile

Endless Mike
I don't think I'll be participating, I can't really think of anything except the opening scene (but IMO it's an awesome scene)...

Want to hear it anyway?

Bardock42
Originally posted by Newjak
I expect you to enlist in this tourney uhuh

I will, I will!!! uhuh

Newjak
Originally posted by Bardock42
I will, I will!!! uhuh Good uhuh

Gecko4lif
Sign me up

Blair Wind
Judges
Badabing
Newjak
Galan

Participants:
PR
Oliver North
Curryman
Starscream
Gecko
Lek Kuen
Bardock - I'm assuming from "I will, I will" you enlisted.

Possibles:
Leonidas


IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT - VOTE

I was asked how we were going to be submitting your writing. I have two options:

We word dump it into a thread specifically designed for you. For example, I'd create a thread for PR and he would upload his writing there, issue by issue. However, this can affect the formatting of your writing and I know some people get very picky about this (myself included).

We can use Google Drive. All you would need is a Gmail account. For those who don't know, Google Drive is basically an online version of Microsoft's Office. You can write documents, spreadsheets, power point presentations, etc. You can make those documents public or private depending on your wants. In this case, everyone would make their writing public and give us the link so we can see it. This way you have control of your formatting and it's so close to Word that you shouldn't have a problem. You can even convert your Word files into Google Doc files if you want.

What do you guys prefer?

Gecko4lif
I already have a google drive sooooo

Bardock42
I'd be fine with Google Drive. But whichever, haven't got a preference.

Oliver North
Don't have a google drive, but worst case scenario I can output as a pdf or image files and upload that way.

Individual threads may be worthwhile anyways, just for organization sake. I agree with the format thing though, if that is a strict rule for the competition we should have a medium that makes it as easy as possible.

Blair Wind
Originally posted by Oliver North
Don't have a google drive, but worst case scenario I can output as a pdf or image files and upload that way.

Individual threads may be worthwhile anyways, just for organization sake. I agree with the format thing though, if that is a strict rule for the competition we should have a medium that makes it as easy as possible.

thumb up

All you need to have Drive is a Gmail account. Once that is made you then have a Drive folder. Plus it's free, and free is free, right?

But yes, we can individual threads with links to each person's story.

Oliver North
So, I am just assuming here, but there is no rule against asking advice about story ideas or characters? obv no obligation to provide help, but as someone without too much experience, would I be able to ask for advice about, say, writing a character of a different ethnicity without making it too steryotypical or cliche?

Gecko4lif
That would defeat the purpose of seeing who can write the best

Oliver North
heh, u scared bro?

wink

Gecko4lif
That your way of asking help from a superior writer?

Oliver North
do you know one?

Gecko4lif
In comparison to you?

Yeah, my dog is quite the poet

Blair Wind
Originally posted by Oliver North
So, I am just assuming here, but there is no rule against asking advice about story ideas or characters? obv no obligation to provide help, but as someone without too much experience, would I be able to ask for advice about, say, writing a character of a different ethnicity without making it too steryotypical or cliche?

Are you talking about research or actual writing?

I mean, I'd do research on past stories with my character so I get a handle on their voice and then write my own story. If I needed any particular thing I might ask a fanboy of the character - but any and all writing should be done by you (and partner if you get one).

Lek Kuen
I'm fine with google drive.

Also may or may not be able to stay for the whole thig since my future work is unknown but I'll be able to do the first few for sure.

Oliver North
Originally posted by Gecko4lif
In comparison to you?

Yeah, my dog is quite the poet

oh snap!

Originally posted by Blair Wind
Are you talking about research or actual writing?

I mean, I'd do research on past stories with my character so I get a handle on their voice and then write my own story. If I needed any particular thing I might ask a fanboy of the character - but any and all writing should be done by you (and partner if you get one).

I just meant the actual writing for a couple of secondary characters. The main chars I am really confident with. For sure, had no interest in having someone else write it for me :P

I'm way too much of a control freak for that

Gecko4lif
Originally posted by Oliver North

I just meant the actual writing for a couple of secondary characters. The main chars I am really confident with. For sure, had no interest in having someone else write it for me :P

I'm way too much of a control freak for that
There is no distinction

-Pr-
Google drive sounds fine to me.

Bardock42
Originally posted by Oliver North
So, I am just assuming here, but there is no rule against asking advice about story ideas or characters? obv no obligation to provide help, but as someone without too much experience, would I be able to ask for advice about, say, writing a character of a different ethnicity without making it too steryotypical or cliche?

Oh, I hope so, I'll ask my British friends Neil and Alan for some help.


Though, I assume you can get feedback on your writing, right? I mean obviously not have people write for you, but for example ask your mom whether they like the story and what they don't like, right? I feel like it would be pretty unnatural to write without getting feedback, especially cause I'm pretty sure writers for Marvel or DC do get feedback (not even to talk about the aid of an editor).

Mindship
Originally posted by Blair Wind
Attention all would be comic book writers! Damn I wish this had been done a year ago. Currently I don't have the time, but this sounds like a lot of fun*. I look forward to reading what KMC ("Killer Made Comics"wink will produce.


* so much so that this is the first time I've ever posted in the Battlezone.

Oliver North
Originally posted by Bardock42
Oh, I hope so, I'll ask my British friends Neil and Alan for some help.


Though, I assume you can get feedback on your writing, right? I mean obviously not have people write for you, but for example ask your mom whether they like the story and what they don't like, right? I feel like it would be pretty unnatural to write without getting feedback, especially cause I'm pretty sure writers for Marvel or DC do get feedback (not even to talk about the aid of an editor).

that kind of stuff is totally unenforceable anyways. We sort of have to trust that none of the writers are going to call in a ringer or have someone else do their work for them.

idk, seeing as I know there are people with more writing experience than me, I was really just looking for a tip about making characters less 2 dimensional, especially because I don't want them to come of as a stereotype.

Gecko4lif
Originally posted by Oliver North
that kind of stuff is totally unenforceable anyways. We sort of have to trust that none of the writers are going to call in a ringer or have someone else do their work for them.

Anyone who that big of a loser lost in life a long time ago.

Oliver North
oh, but they would win the internets

Blair Wind
Originally posted by Oliver North
I just meant the actual writing for a couple of secondary characters. The main chars I am really confident with. For sure, had no interest in having someone else write it for me :P


The answer is no. I obviously can't enforce it, but I trust you won't do it. Ask them for advice, don't ask them to do the actual writing even for secondary characters unless you want to include that person in as a partner.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Oh, I hope so, I'll ask my British friends Neil and Alan for some help.


Though, I assume you can get feedback on your writing, right? I mean obviously not have people write for you, but for example ask your mom whether they like the story and what they don't like, right? I feel like it would be pretty unnatural to write without getting feedback, especially cause I'm pretty sure writers for Marvel or DC do get feedback (not even to talk about the aid of an editor).

That's perfectly fine.

leonidas
okay, so i have a nice preliminary idea--something sorta big and 'cosmicy'. laughing out loud just trying to work out the kinks and trying to determine whether i can get it in inside the 6 issues and what-not. even if i don't get it completely down here, i like it enough that i may consider pursuing it anyway in some format or other in some place or other. hope i can get it put together for this though.

Gecko4lif
What size typeface do we have to use

Oliver North
Originally posted by leonidas
okay, so i have a nice preliminary idea--something sorta big and 'cosmicy'. laughing out loud just trying to work out the kinks and trying to determine whether i can get it in inside the 6 issues and what-not. even if i don't get it completely down here, i like it enough that i may consider pursuing it anyway in some format or other in some place or other. hope i can get it put together for this though.

KMC publishing?

stick out tongue

leonidas
Originally posted by Oliver North
KMC publishing?

stick out tongue

laughing out loud

THAT would be AWESOME!!!

Bardock42
I'm pretty sure I'll write a Hellblazer story (cause I'm obsessed with him). Might set it in the regular DC universe, I have a couple ideas swirling around, but I'm pretty sure that I want it to be decidedly non-cosmic.

Blair Wind
Sometime this coming week I will be opening up the thread to post the finalized concept you will be writing about. We will work out a schedule for when the first issues will be due.

Gecko4lif
Originally posted by Gecko4lif
What size typeface do we have to use

leonidas
Originally posted by Bardock42
I'm pretty sure I'll write a Hellblazer story (cause I'm obsessed with him). Might set it in the regular DC universe, I have a couple ideas swirling around, but I'm pretty sure that I want it to be decidedly non-cosmic.

sounds cool. loads of potential story stuff there. i'll be trying to answer a question i've been curious about for a long time but that has never really be satisfactorily, or consistently answered in comics. besides, i like big, cool, cosmicy stories. smile

-Pr-
I'll be writing a synopsis soon enough. I just hope my rather dialogue-heavy story will resonate with people.

Gecko4lif
I have a question about 16-26 pages

Even if you include detailed descriptions of the panels a comic is only gonna boil down to about 3 pages of material

unless its a Moore comic in which case it is a novel

Blair Wind
Originally posted by Gecko4lif
I have a question about 16-26 pages

Even if you include detailed descriptions of the panels a comic is only gonna boil down to about 3 pages of material

unless its a Moore comic in which case it is a novel

What?

A) Look at the example I gave of a script. My rules post also includes a "How to write a script" by using a script format.

Originally posted by Blair Wind
Just as an example of a pure movie script, here is Batman Begins:
http://media.nolanfans.com/screenplays/batmanbegins_script.pdf


B) Look at the examples that PR gave on comic based scripts (Grant Morrison's in particular as it has no panel)


Originally posted by -Pr-
This is the kind I've modelled myself on for a while; it's Johns' when he wrote Green Lantern (skip to the fourth page of the pdf for the actual comic):
http://comicbookscriptarchive.com/goods/geoffjohns/greenlantern1.pdf

Here's a Grant Morrison one too:
http://comicbookscriptarchive.com/goods/grantmorrison/Invisibles_1.txt

You're using place establishing shots (EXT. = Exterior, INT. = Interior, DAY or NIGHT), then your prose, and then dialogue spaced out. It shouldn't boil down to 3 pages.

Also, you asked about font: Courier New or Times New Roman. Essentially not something anyone is going to hate reading.

Bardock42
I tend to write comic scripts in panels, would that be acceptable or does it have to be movie script style. I don't mind either way, I just prefer panel style for comics.

Gecko4lif
Originally posted by Blair Wind
What?

A) Look at the example I gave of a script. My rules post also includes a "How to write a script" by using a script format.


its really only that long because of terribly wasteful formatting

Blair Wind
Originally posted by Bardock42
I tend to write comic scripts in panels, would that be acceptable or does it have to be movie script style. I don't mind either way, I just prefer panel style for comics.

I think it would be easier to read movie script style simply because there won't be an artist to draw out your panels visually.


Originally posted by Gecko4lif
its really only that long because of terribly wasteful formatting

Which is the standard for both movie scripts and comic scripts. In movies one script page tends to be one actual minute of the movie. In a comic, one actual page.

And it's easier to read for everyone involved (and in this unique case, most importantly the judges of this tournament).

Blair Wind
Originally posted by leonidas
okay, so i have a nice preliminary idea--something sorta big and 'cosmicy'. laughing out loud just trying to work out the kinks and trying to determine whether i can get it in inside the 6 issues and what-not. even if i don't get it completely down here, i like it enough that i may consider pursuing it anyway in some format or other in some place or other. hope i can get it put together for this though.

thumb up

So, I'm just going to put your name down as part of the program smile

Judges
Badabing
Newjak
Galan

Participants:
PR
Oliver North
Curryman
Starscream
Gecko
Lek Kuen
Bardock
Leonidas

We currently have 8 participants. I have to say, I'm proud of all of you for throwing your hat in. I'll be opening up a thread sometime this week for you to put your general plot/story up.

I'll PM you all individually to let you know when it is up. We could do with one or two more judges if anyone knows of anyone willing to do so.

Oliver North
So, in terms of the continuity thing, how strict do we have to be with it?

Let me explain: I hadn't, until just now, read the recent Dark Avengers or latter end of Thunderbolts, where Man-Thing is featured as part of the team. In it, they don't just alter some things about his powers or abilities, but in fact, radically redefine how the character works. Prior to this change, he was a mindless monster who could only react to the emotions of others, but now he has the mind of some ancient god or some such within him.

The big issue is, the story I want to write also includes the new Hobgoblin and recent historical events in Haiti. While the Hobgoblin thing would be possible to work around, the Haitian thing wouldn't, so I can't just set the story in the past.

In this case, if I want to use Man-Thing, do I have to use this new version, or can I use the version that existed for 30+ years? I totally understand if not, it really doesn't make sense to pull characters from different time streams for no reason, just a fairly major setback to what I thought was going to be a good story.

Gecko4lif
Originally posted by Oliver North
So, in terms of the continuity thing, how strict do we have to be with it?

Let me explain: I hadn't, until just now, read the recent Dark Avengers or latter end of Thunderbolts, where Man-Thing is featured as part of the team. In it, they don't just alter some things about his powers or abilities, but in fact, radically redefine how the character works. Prior to this change, he was a mindless monster who could only react to the emotions of others, but now he has the mind of some ancient god or some such within him.

The big issue is, the story I want to write also includes the new Hobgoblin and recent historical events in Haiti. While the Hobgoblin thing would be possible to work around, the Haitian thing wouldn't, so I can't just set the story in the past.

In this case, if I want to use Man-Thing, do I have to use this new version, or can I use the version that existed for 30+ years? I totally understand if not, it really doesn't make sense to pull characters from different time streams for no reason, just a fairly major setback to what I thought was going to be a good story.

I was gonna go the Thor: Vikings route and just leave it vague

Blair Wind
Just pretend that your stories are alternate reality versions. Pick and choose the things from Marvel or DC you want to keep. It doesn't have to be in continuity, but it can be if you wish.

Oliver North
alright, cool smile thanks

-Pr-
I'm rectonning certain things, because **** Marvel.

Newjak
This is looking good, I'm excited to see what people post.

Oliver North
Originally posted by -Pr-
because **** Marvel.

amen brother

Bardock42
I've been getting into Marvel again recently.


I don't have anything else to add, just that.

Endless Mike
I really don't feel confident enough to write in the tournament.... yet my idea I feel shouldn't go to waste... maybe I can give ideas to someone else.

-Pr-
Just write it dude. Not being rude; just saying, what's the worst that can happen? Some people on the internet don't like it?

Originally posted by Bardock42
I've been getting into Marvel again recently.


I don't have anything else to add, just that.

I try, every few months, to get back in to Marvel, or more specifically, X-Men.

I can sit and read Thor, Iron Man, Daredevil, Hulk and the Avengers vs the world book and feel like I'm reading a good comic. It's just hard to get over what they're doing to X-Men.

Endless Mike
The thing is I don't have an entire story planned out, and I don't think I can come up with enough material to meet the requirements.

Oliver North
idk, I'd still say go for it. I've always wanted to write something, had some ideas kicking around, but never got around to it. having some pressure to actually come up with ideas and produce a proposal and issues has been really helpful in that way, something that may even help me get my own stories started beyond the writers tourney.

necessity being the mother of invention and all that

Bardock42
So, what was your idea?

Starscream M
Originally posted by Endless Mike
I really don't feel confident enough to write in the tournament.... yet my idea I feel shouldn't go to waste... maybe I can give ideas to someone else. don't be such a pu$$y

Newjak
Originally posted by Endless Mike
The thing is I don't have an entire story planned out, and I don't think I can come up with enough material to meet the requirements. You'd be surprised at how much more you have than you realize.

Once you start typing things out, it's you might find you feel you don't have enough time or space to put down all your ideas or words.

Zack Fair
I wanna judge

-Pr-
Originally posted by Newjak
You'd be surprised at how much more you have than you realize.

Once you start typing things out, it's you might find you feel you don't have enough time or space to put down all your ideas or words.

Yup. It can easily happen.

Blair Wind
Originally posted by Zack Fair
I wanna judge

thumb up

Judges
Badabing
Newjak
Galan
Zack Fair

Participants:
PR
Oliver North
Curryman
Starscream
Gecko
Lek Kuen
Bardock
Leonidas

Endless Mike
Shuma-Gorath invades Asgard and nearly kills Odin. Dr. Strange has an intense battle to defeat Shuma, but then the LT reveals that the balance of magical power in the omniverse is becoming disordered because an evil alternate version of Strange has been using the Staff of Polar Power to gather all of the mystic power in reality to himself, 616 Strange fights him but gets owned, then he and Thor have to team up with Galactus, gather the Infinity Gems, and try to face the evil Strange.

Branlor Swift
Couple questions, don't know if you answered them, but anyway:

Do you have to label panels and pages and what is happening on each one? Because this could get tedious fast for if I wanted to write something.
Or could we just let it flow, and the readers pick for themselves what happened on what pages?

And, how many characters (by this I mean the 10000 character limit) on average would your standard issue be? How many posts? 1 full post, 2 posts, etc?

And, if we finished it all, could we drop multiple issues at once, or do we have to wait? 6 months is a lot of time to wait if you're proud of your post and you want people to see it.
I understand if not though. However, what about bi-weekly, or weekly?

I'm going to write up one "issue" regardless before I officially sign up.

Blair Wind
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Couple questions, don't know if you answered them, but anyway:

Do you have to label panels and pages and what is happening on each one? Because this could get tedious fast for if I wanted to write something.
Or could we just let it flow, and the readers pick for themselves what happened on what pages?

Read the rules. Script format, no panels.



It's based on pages done in Google Drive. If you have a gmail account, you have a Google Drive (Google's online version of Microsoft Office). You can then share the link. For an example, refer to Oliver North's post in the Writer's Pitch thread.



That's something I'd have to think about. I made it 6 months to give people time to write their stories since I know people can be busy. If the other participants all feel like they can write their six issues in a shorter period of time, we can talk about it. Otherwise, I don't think that would be fair to the rest of the participants



thumb up cool

Oliver North
I'll be honest, I have no problem with different writers posting parts of their story early, but there is almost no way I feel I could produce my best work if I were pushing for 4-5 pages a week. Maybe by the end of April, but right now I'd prefer the month.

Bardock42
I don't mind people turning in their parts early either. But I wouldn't be able to do that, so I'd prefer that we can stick to the earlier schedule at least.

Bardock42
I've started writing and I'm actually quite happy with it so far. I write in plain text so I don't know page count, but I assume 250 words per page is about average so I'll aim for 2500 - 3000 words for the 10 page issue. Which means if I don't delete everything (which might happen as I start to hate it) I'm already about 15-20% through, w00

§ilenda
.

Sin I AM
interested

Omega Vision
I've actually just gotten some convenient practice writing scripts recently because a section of my novel is rendered in manuscript format. I think captions will come in handy in supplementing the dialogue, keeping it from being sparse.

Gecko4lif
"my novel" I lolled

Omega Vision
Originally posted by Gecko4lif
"my novel" I lolled
Yes, read that part of the post with a patronizing up-lilting Stewie voice.

-Pr-
Originally posted by Sin I AM
interested

Gonna compete?

Omega Vision
So, is anyone done yet with their first issue?

-Pr-
I'm about 75% done with mine.

Badabing
Originally posted by -Pr-
I'm about 75% done with mine. Cripes. You're slower than the 7 year itch. sneer


pr

-Pr-
I had to break up my one story in to six issues so that none of them would feel like filler. I want it to flow well.

Mister Pm-un-answering-guy.

Starscream M
Originally posted by Omega Vision
So, is anyone done yet with their first issue? i haven't started

Blair Wind
Maybe you should get on that....

Oliver North
I'll be honest, issue 1 is going to be tough for me, I've got paper to mark and all this nonsense...

Haven't put pen to paper, so to speak, but I'm 60%, ish, done the issue in terms of knowing how all the dialogue goes.

It will be considerably better for other issues, but damn work...

Omega Vision
When it comes to writing for deadlines, I usually write something in a day and turn it in two weeks or even a month before it's due, but I've never written anything in this format before, so who knows.

I haven't started writing the issue yet.

Bardock42
I'm still as far into it as I was when I last posted about it.

How is this going to work, btw? Where are we posting them?

Blair Wind
I'm going to be opening a thread the day before the issues are due. Post your Google Drive link there and the judges will read them.

In addition, sometime between this issue and the next, I'll be PM'ing everyone for the small interview that you all agreed to.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by -Pr-
I'm rectonning certain things, because **** Marvel.

This is the most legit post yet.

-Pr-
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
This is the most legit post yet.

I'm just sad I couldn't figure out the rest of the story and had to change my subject.

Maybe I'll go back to it later.

JakeTheBank
Right on. When's your guys initial deadline?

-Pr-
April 10th, iirc.

Blair Wind
thumb up

8 days. Hope everyone has been writing!

Omega Vision
8 page issues, right?

Is that a limit, or is it a minimum? Both?

Oliver North
minimum iirc

god I hope so...

Blair Wind
8-15 pages. I wont mind if its a little longer (but i doubt thats going to be the problem lol)

Blair Wind
The 10th is fast approaching. Good luck to everyone!

red sabre
are people posting stories here or what? i have a great story actually involving Cyclops, Guardian amped prime and galactus

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