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Let me try to put into words what a true Utopia would be like.

It's pretty much a society where everything is already provided for everyone. The layout is just what is needed. Machines do all the work to sustain it. There are no jobs any person has to do to live out there lives.

So obviously people will look at the city scape and want to make it look better, that is something they are free to do themselves. They would need to educate themselves on architexture and design first, but that won't cost anything as education is provided for. The knowledge is there for you to pick up. There's all these people free to do anything productive. What would you do.

I can't honestly think right now, I want some creative input. Please don't say you'll start causing mayhem or whatever, because obviously you'd just be a troll in Utopia who'd be banned, ergo locked up. :/

For instance, someone as crazy and diabolically genius as Ray Kurzweil or maybe even Stephen Hawking would by using nanotech to give ordinary people super powers, like flight, super hearing, super vision, intangibility, super good looks, a higher IQ etc. Giving people without legs legs, insta-curing alcoholism, heroin addicts, bi-polar disorder, paralyzed limbs, blindess, etc.

Or somebody might design a giant beach house out on a man-made island with a 10 mile tall paradise mountain peak on it to have parties, sub-sonic rollercoaster rides, etc. Someone might create a transformer, or design a martian city that makes it's own oxygen to terraform mars. Or you might design an underground fortress with all kinds of awesome shit in it. Or a bunch of gadgets. Idk. You tell me.

Well since people dont need jobs they dont need money and everything is provided for us.... Crime would go down theoreticlly since no one would be homeless. It would leave time for the Primary Arts like Science, Math, Ect.. but then again in a utopia society that all would be done already wouldnt it? What would there be left to actually do?

Would need Engineers to maintain the machines though.

I'd be king of the utopia.

I'd imagine it would mostly be leisure activities. Everyday would be made up of doing whatever's clever. Biking, sailing, flying, golf, frisbee, bowling, get together, and on and on.

Actually, though things don't stay that way, the setting for Illium and Olympos is pretty much such a society.

Originally posted by Scarlet Fox
It would leave time for the Primary Arts like Science, Math, Ect.. but then again in a utopia society that all would be done already wouldnt it? What would there be left to actually do?

Would need Engineers to maintain the machines though.

An establishment is not conscious, it is not creative, or questioning. Everyone living inside would be creative, questioning, thinking. Primary arts aren't going to improve without us to expand our own knowledge. We wouldn't need anything to maintain the machines, they would totally self-sufficient. We would need to engineer new things, we are the thinking part of the AI, integrated into it. This is past any revolution, in fact there isn't going to be a revolution at the rate we're going, just fanatics worried that techonology and freedom from servitude will offend Odin, Ra, Zues, Allah and Jesus Christ.

No, it'd be like the humans in WALL-E, you'd all be fat disgusting sloths not worth your weight in navel lint.

You lazy fat bastards really make me sick, just thinking about you.

Originally posted by Robtard
No, it'd be like the humans in WALL-E, you'd all be fat disgusting sloths not worth your weight in navel lint.

You lazy fat bastards really make me sick, just thinking about you.

We will just cure our obesity, and instead make ourselves look like chisseled 18 year-old studs, those two young will accelerate the aging procces, those too old will reverse it, and those at just the right age will halt it permanently.

How would a machine repair itself if it breaks down? No matter the machine it will eventually break down if it is not cared for. Unless you have machines taking care of the machines.... Then it will be all Judgement Day!

Originally posted by Dolos
We will just cure our obesity, and instead make ourselves look like chisseled comic book characters.

No, you'd be an especially fat slob whose mass was made up of 97.3% pure body fat.

I'd be fit, as I'm the King of Utopia.

The revolution will be Nay Sayers like Robderp Vs Way Seers like me. Those who can find the way, will find a way, those who say it can't be done with this this and this bad shit happening like Robderp is saying, won't make it very far before failing in disbelief.

Originally posted by Scarlet Fox
How would a machine repair itself if it breaks down? No matter the machine it will eventually break down if it is not cared for. Unless you have machines taking care of the machines.... Then it will be all Judgement Day!

Nay sayer.

Molecular assembly can generate self-repairing machines without the need for them to go I, Robot for no reason. We are just talking a bunch of seperate parts that have their own function, when all up and running energy provided from solar energy will make them totally self-sufficient. These parts have functions, but nothing is thinking, the thinking was done in the design phase.

Originally posted by Dolos
The revolution will be Nay Sayers like Robderp Vs Way Seers like me. Those who can find the way, will find a way, those who say it can't be done with this this and this bad shit happening like Robderp is saying, won't make it very far before failing in disbelief.

When did I say it can't be done? I said I'd be king and you'd be a lazy fatass who's too lazy to walk to the food dispenser cos a machine can do it for you.

Get out.

Originally posted by Dolos
Get out.

I'm the king of the utopia as I called it first, so you GTFO of my utopia and GTFO of my thread.

I'm trying to have a serious discussion here, and all you can do is go derpspastic. You cannot post outside of the Off-topic Forum anymore Robderp...it's forbidden.

Derp your way out.

You're talking about people getting superpowers like flight and intangibility, yeah, "serious discussion" indeed.

GTFO of my thread. You're just butthurt I called king before you thought of it.

I would create a virus that would shut down all machines destroying the utopia.

They can lock me up, but I have destroyed everything they cared for and I will have sent them all into damnation.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8s37spxBs1ql48w6o1_500.gif

As King of Utopia, I approve of that plan. Get on it.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
I'd imagine it would mostly be leisure activities. Everyday would be made up of doing whatever's clever. Biking, sailing, flying, golf, frisbee, bowling, get together, and on and on.

Actually, though things don't stay that way, the setting for Illium and Olympos is pretty much such a society.

What is that about?

Originally posted by Mindset
I would create a virus that would shut down all machines destroying the utopia.

They can lock me up, but I have destroyed everything they cared for and I will have sent them all into damnation.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8s37spxBs1ql48w6o1_500.gif

Superlock!!!

I've heard you mention Illium and Olympos twice now.

I'm guessing it has to do with such an advanced society as a Utopia, no?

Originally posted by Dolos
We will just cure our obesity, and instead make ourselves look like chisseled 18 year-old studs, those two young will accelerate the aging procces, those too old will reverse it, and those at just the right age will halt it permanently.
Where is the Balance in that? Are you saying there will be no Death? Cause the world needs Death, as gruesome as that seems. Without death it would upset the Balance. Light and Dark. Life and Death.
Originally posted by Mindset
I would create a virus that would shut down all machines destroying the utopia.

They can lock me up, but I have destroyed everything they cared for and I will have sent them all into damnation.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8s37spxBs1ql48w6o1_500.gif
OMG ITS A DEMON! CALL THE WINCHESTERS!

If you want death, it shall come.

Some are limited by their own morality, or lack there of. You think death has some greater meaning or serves some greater purpose than the end of an insignificant biological function? That's an abstract idea, now try to make it into an hypothesis. Prove the existence of God while you're at it.

Originally posted by Scarlet Fox
Where is the Balance in that? Are you saying there will be no Death? Cause the world needs Death, as gruesome as that seems. Not really, the only problem would be overpopulation and using up natural resources. If we had the technology would could create the resources we need, develop new ones, colonize other parts of space, etc.

Death is for suckers.

Originally posted by Mindset

Death is for suckers.

We can only hope.

But if too many cannot accept the notion, we could just destroy ourselves bickering over the notion, and by fighting the evolution of intelligence.

Originally posted by Dolos
We can only hope.

But if too many cannot accept the notion, we could just destroy ourselves bickering over the notion, and by fighting the evolution of intelligence. Evolution is for suckers.

Might as well be Indoctrinated.

Into my way of thinking.

I agree.

Originally posted by Dolos
If you want death, it shall come.

What if I change my mind later? Presumably future me has just as much right to live as current.

Actually this is my favorite utopian paradox. The utopia wishes to create the most good/pleasure. However, if the utopia can be improved then it is better to be alive the future and as the population rises there will be more people in the better future utopia. In fact unless the utopia fails there are an infinite number of people in the future of the utopia. Consequently every generation should be enslaved to finding way to design a better utopia to better the lives of the infinite future people.

That's exactly what it will come down to.

No one would be able to control anyone, by very definition of Utopia. Who knows what kind of war that would bring.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
What if I change my mind later? Presumably future me has just as much right to live as current.

Actually this is my favorite utopian paradox. The utopia wishes to create the most good/pleasure. However, if the utopia can be improved then it is better to be alive the future and as the population rises there will be more people in the better future utopia. In fact unless the utopia fails there are an infinite number of people in the future of the utopia. Consequently every generation should be enslaved to finding way to design a better utopia to better the lives of the infinite future people.

No, it's not slavery.

It will happen, because it is intelligent nature to want more. It is by will alone that we will be making things better, and having a better time doing than any form of servitude could ever offer. You have the decision to die, to stop thinking and learning. That's why I said that.

Nobody will be concerned with nihilism or control like Robderp and Mindset. Death and regression is boring, we know the end to that, that is history, neanderthals, that is Empires that have already crumbled, nothing new, nothing exciting. The thrill of terrorism would be obsolete to future Utopians.

Not if they initially build a sustained slave labor force of machines, then the utopians could spend all their time slamming cucumbers up their assholes while discussing Noam Chomsky.

Really, Dolos thought of everything, even super powers.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
What if I change my mind later? Presumably future me has just as much right to live as current.

Actually this is my favorite utopian paradox. The utopia wishes to create the most good/pleasure. However, if the utopia can be improved then it is better to be alive the future and as the population rises there will be more people in the better future utopia. In fact unless the utopia fails there are an infinite number of people in the future of the utopia. Consequently every generation should be enslaved to finding way to design a better utopia to better the lives of the infinite future people. That's why my existence is needed.

Originally posted by Mindset
I would create a virus that would shut down all machines destroying the utopia.

They can lock me up, but I have destroyed everything they cared for and I will have sent them all into damnation.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8s37spxBs1ql48w6o1_500.gif

Originally posted by Dolos
No, it's not slavery.

It will happen, because it is intelligent nature to want more. It is by will alone that we will be making things better, and having a better time doing than any form of servitude could ever offer.

A world where everyone is either brainwashed or incapable of thinking unlike the rest of the group is usually considered a false utopia, whether they're technically slaves or not.

Originally posted by Dolos
You have the decision to die, to stop thinking and learning. That's why I said that.

Okay but consider the case where I wish to die but am prevented, then go on to lead a happy life. This happens in the real world but in the utopia it should be possible every time since you have ultimate therapy. In a utopia future me shouldn't be denied happiness because of the decisions I make now.

Everyone is independent in a Utopia, free to make their own decisions.

I just said that most likely no one would be as pecimistic or superstitious or paranoid or controlling or manipulative as some people are today. Really they wouldn't be any of these things, not a single soul. Really it's called better decision making, if chooses to be unhappy, and don't seek help, then their free will cannot be tampered with.

Originally posted by Mindset
That's why my existence is needed.

To make sure humanity dies out, or remains in stagnation, never to make progress or to evolve in all the most beneficial ways.

Derp.

I feel safe if a virus is all you can come up with. Grey goo would be a duodecillion times more lethal, and yet effortlessly conquerable, just quickly make a negative grey goo to cancel it out.

Originally posted by Dolos
Everyone is independent in a Utopia, free to make their own decisions.

If it is a requirement that everyone "independently" come to the same conclusion they're not really independent.

Originally posted by Dolos
I just said that most likely no one would be as pecimistic or superstitious or paranoid or controlling or manipulative as some people are today. Really they wouldn't be any of these things, not a single soul. Really it's called better decision making, if chooses to be unhappy, and don't seek help, then their free will cannot be tampered with.

I would consider this a false utopia, then, even setting aside the idea that people "choose to be unhappy," since you've implicitly stripped away independence.

Originally posted by Dolos
To make sure humanity dies out, or remains in stagnation, never to make progress or to evolve in all the most beneficial ways.

Derp.

I feel safe if a virus is all you can come up with. Grey goo would be a duodecillion times more lethal, and yet effortlessly conquerable, just quickly make a negative grey goo to cancel it out. Wtf are you blabbering about?

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
If it is a requirement that everyone "independently" come to the same conclusion they're not really independent.



I would consider this a false utopia, then, even setting aside the idea that people "choose to be unhappy," since you've implicitly stripped away independence.

There isn't a nuance of logic in your nonsensical complaints.

But when they've built a place like that, a colussos super-city that feeds solely on the heat of the sun, a place for the scholarly, I am going to be the first one there. You can go to Suburbonville or whatever uneventful place you stay at and have a drink with your buddies.

Originally posted by Mindset
Wtf are you blabbering about?

Grey goo. Grey matter. Nanites. Self-replicating matter consuming microscopic organisms designed for one purpose, the consumption of a planet's surface.

Haven't you seen The Day The Earth Stood Still remake?

http://www.lolsingularity.info/greygoo.jpg

Talk about a virus, do you know how much corrupt data these things could spread to machinery before consuming it and converting it into energy to multiply a few more billion times? A computer virus in an AI operated Utopian City? Forget it man, they have safe holds, back up plans for back up plans for things a trillion times worse than anything your dull imagination could concieve.

Originally posted by Dolos
There isn't a nuance of logic in your nonsensical complaints.

I'm pointing out that you've built your imaginary utopia on utterly contradictory requirements. For example: It cannot be that everyone is independent and everyone thinks the same.

You seem to have a very childish view of debate. This is a discussion forum on a dick sucking forum. People here may disagree with you.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I'm pointing out that you've built your imaginary utopia on utterly contradictory requirements. For example: It cannot be that everyone is independent and everyone thinks the same.

You seem to have a very childish view of debate. This is a discussion forum on a dick sucking forum. People here may disagree with you.

Who ever said anyone thought the same? You're ridiculous!

I said post-humans will be better decision makers. Carl Sagan would co-sign, as I learned that from his words of wisdom.

WGXMAqdRtfE

I don't know one human being who isn't a retarded snob. It's not within human threshold to be a God. Given the chance I would become a God given the technologies of the future. That's an intelligent decision, and I like to think I'm intelligent. I choose to be, and therefore I am, not limited by obstacles earthly or otherwise.

Originally posted by Dolos
I don't know one human being who isn't a retarded snob. Except yourself of course?

Originally posted by Dolos
Grey goo. Grey matter. Nanites. Self-replicating matter consuming microscopic organisms designed for one purpose, the consumption of a planet's surface.

Haven't you seen The Day The Earth Stood Still remake?

http://www.lolsingularity.info/greygoo.jpg

Talk about a virus, do you know how much corrupt data these things could spread to machinery before consuming it and converting it into energy to multiply a few more billion times? A computer virus in an AI operated Utopian City? Forget it man, they have safe holds, back up plans for back up plans for things a trillion times worse than anything your dull imagination could concieve. They would end life, I just want to make it chaotic, you sadistic animal.

You need to take a long hard look in the mirror and figure out where your life went wrong, you're sick.

Also, my virus will have back up plans for their back up plans, back up plans. So what up?

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Except yourself of course?

Look at what I typed in some of the off-topic posts and decide that for yourself. The derpforce is in everyone...for now.

All of your posts are off-topic.

Originally posted by Dolos
Who ever said anyone thought the same? You're ridiculous!

I said post-humans will be better decision makers. Carl Sagan would co-sign, as I learned that from his words of wisdom.

WGXMAqdRtfE

I don't know one human being who isn't a retarded snob. It's not within human threshold to be a God. Given the chance I would become a God given the technologies of the future. That's an intelligent decision, and I like to think I'm intelligent. I choose to be, and therefore I am, not limited by obstacles earthly or otherwise. A god in what context?

I feel like this thread is trying to push people in one decision that you want.

Like this notion that people will all logically come to the same conclusions if you make them 'smarter' or you have to be intelligent to come to your conclusions.

Next it goes off of ideas that this Utopia will create technologies that don't exist and you don't even know if they will ever exist on the level you want.

Then you have it all wrong.

This is liberation of control, this particular society couldn't function without complete rights and liberation that just isn't possible in a divided world like this.

It's the only intelligent way to live, a lot of people aren't intelligent at all and let themselves and their intelligences be exploited to the system. It's like slaves working the submissive part of their brain instead of the creative regions...and are so idiotic that they fight to continue to do so. I won't be controlled, if I had to sacrifice a monetary, community, social, racial, gender role, religious, or political control over my lessers, ****ing so be it.

Originally posted by Dolos
Then you have it all wrong.

This is liberation of control, this particular society couldn't function without complete rights and liberation that just isn't possible in a divided world like this.

It's the only intelligent way to live, a lot of people aren't intelligent at all and let themselves and their intelligences be exploited to the system. It's like slaves working the submissive part of their brain instead of the creative regions...and are so idiotic that they fight to continue to do so. I won't be controlled, if I had to sacrifice a monetary, community, social, racial, gender role, religious, or political control over my lessers, ****ing so be it. What exactly is the only intelligent way to live? I just want to make sure I'm clear on it before moving on.

Cause it sounds like you're going to force people to think the way you want because you think less of them.

Originally posted by Newjak
What exactly is the only intelligent way to live? I just want to make sure I'm clear on it before moving on.

To live in complete and total equality, free from any sort of neccessity to do anything you don't want to do. Technology has removed that need and in it's wake, endless freedom of positive creative progress will be given to our descendent species (Gods).



Simply trying to make you aware of these things that the likes of Ray Kurzweil, Jaque Fresco, Carl Sagan, Michio Kaku and many other scientific minds hope for our future. But by all means believe what you want. Believe in us annihilating each other when we're at the precipice of a technological singularity because we won't accept a Utopia out of superstition, fear, submissive reluctance, or stupidity. I can't change human nature.

If we don't create a Utopian eco-correcting city filled with AI to keep it self-sustaining and totally sufficient on solar energy, able to clean the atmosphere and incapable of being brought down by the earth's weather that we would control - if we don't change our ways in the ways Jaque Fresco offers with his Round Cities; we'll just die out. Competition for living space and resources will cause global conflict, economic bell curves, etc...

We are approaching the singularity whether we want to remain in stagnation or not, but if we destroy these technologies out of fear or superstition, refuse to go into space, become super-intelligent by integrating with the exponentially expanding AI, and build elsewhere. Refusal to take on these challenges with the one thing that has propelled all the good of society and freedom will result in a war to end wars, whether we like it or not.

Ah yes, the great scientific mind that is Jaque Fresco. Explains a lot. I suspect if you took a stats course you'd end up sending money to Eliezer Yudowsky.

Yes, because Jaque does everything for designing that himself.

You're really pecismistic you know? Watch me become a glorified CFO.

Originally posted by Dolos
To live in complete and total equality, free from any sort of neccessity to do anything you don't want to do. Technology has removed that need and in it's wake, endless freedom of positive creative progress will be given to our descendent species (Gods).



Simply trying to make you aware of these things that the likes of Ray Kurzweil, Jaque Fresco, Carl Sagan, Michio Kaku and many other scientific minds hope for our future. But by all means believe what you want. Believe in us annihilating each other when we're at the precipice of a technological singularity because we won't accept a Utopia out of superstition, fear, submissive reluctance, or stupidity. I can't change human nature.

If we don't create a Utopian eco-correcting city filled with AI to keep it self-sustaining and totally sufficient on solar energy, able to clean the atmosphere and incapable of being brought down by the earth's weather that we would control - if we don't change our ways in the ways Jaque Fresco offers with his Round Cities; we'll just die out. Competition for living space and resources will cause global conflict, economic bell curves, etc...

We are approaching the singularity whether we want to remain in stagnation or not, but if we destroy these technologies out of fear or superstition, refuse to go into space, become super-intelligent by integrating with the exponentially expanding AI, and build elsewhere. Refusal to take on these challenges with the one thing that has propelled all the good of society and freedom will result in a war to end wars, whether we like it or not.
What if this technology you want doesn't exist or can not be fabricated?

Resources by their nature are finite even the sun itself is. So would there still not be competition for the resources we have.

Does that mean any chance for a peaceful coexistence will be lost?

Even if these technologies are created won't the human race still come to an end at some point.

Okay, now you're getting into plausibility. I have the notion, and I do not find it delusional, that there will be a point in technological development that creates a world we cannot imagine in the not so distant future.

Now you have to understand I have been fed tons of this by scientists like Ray Kurzweil, Michio Kaku, and many others. Just google search "The Singularity".

The human race is inevitably going to end...we will have a choice, I think, to survive in the technology we have created...and live to see the miraculous transformation.

Nothing is garanteed, the best thing to do for me is to get an education and pursue a palpable career.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I suspect if you took a stats course you'd end up sending money to Eliezer Yudowsky.

zing

I'm not sending money to anyone. I'm radical, not delusional and gullable, ergo stupid.

Originally posted by Dolos
not delusional.
well...

I would actually think it's a lot further off than what they are talking about.

I mean, it's a concept, the singularity...and the possibilities that come with it could create a very different world. A lot of people feel that they'd be unable to relate, or to adapt to the changing world.

You'd be right to think this much, because you're only a human. At this moment, there is no reason I wouldn't become an ageless cyborg resembling a perfect human right down to the bone. You cannot see the flesh and blood's molecular contents that make me this God. But with many hundreds, or maybe thousands of times more memory and an incaculable ability to process information like the supercomputers of today but built into my neurons.

That could change, maybe I'll not want to adapt to this changing world in the future...it all depends on how I feel about it or if it ever happens in my lifetime.

I think you are ignoring the fact that many problems with humanity are not a related to things technology can solve.

like, inequality in the distribution of resources is not based on scarcity alone, and scarcity isn't always based on limitation of resources, facts most technocrats ignore. Both food and land are great examples of the former, while the human tendency to place special value on, say, an original piece of art rather than an identical reproduction demonstrates the latter.

Originally posted by Dolos
You'd be right to think this much, because you're only a human. At this moment, there is no reason I wouldn't become an ageless cyborg resembling a perfect human right down to the bone. You cannot see the flesh and blood's molecular contents that make me this God. But with many hundreds, or maybe thousands of times more memory and an incaculable ability to process information like the supercomputers of today but built into my neurons. Someone's been playing New Vegas and siding with Mr. House.

Originally posted by Dolos
I would actually think it's a lot further off than what they are talking about.

I mean, it's a concept, the singularity...and the possibilities that come with it could create a very different world. A lot of people feel that they'd be unable to relate, or to adapt to the changing world.

You'd be right to think this much, because you're only a human. At this moment, there is no reason I wouldn't become an ageless cyborg resembling a perfect human right down to the bone. You cannot see the flesh and blood's molecular contents that make me this God. But with many hundreds, or maybe thousands of times more memory and an incaculable ability to process information like the supercomputers of today but built into my neurons.

That could change, maybe I'll not want to adapt to this changing world in the future...it all depends on how I feel about it or if it ever happens in my lifetime. You're right there is nothing set in stone that you can't become an ageless technological god except for the fact nothing you proposed actually changes anything, it may only intensify it.

Originally posted by Newjak
You're right there is nothing set in stone that you can't become an ageless technological god except for the fact nothing you proposed actually changes anything, it may only intensify it.

Life will require more of you yes, but it definately won't be as lame either. The only person driving you to excel would be you. For everyone. You will define your own skills, you can modify what you're good at, whereas in today's world you are limited by your innate aptitudes and appearence.

That's why I ask, what challenges would you undertake? What would drive you? For instance I might want to start making virtual experiences for myself and anyone else who would enjoy a trip in a world they cannot experience themselves.

Maybe spend a day as High School's #1 stud, or fall in love. etc.

power to create any experience you want and you go back to highschool to be popular?

Originally posted by Oliver North
power to create any experience you want and you go back to highschool to be popular?

Well, I'll also have superpowers that no one knows about...

I'll be able to see thoughts, so that I cannot make a mistake when hitting on women.

wait, are you still in highschool?

because "getting laid" would be way down on the list of things I'd want to experience if I could do anything...

might I recommend some LSD?

Originally posted by Dolos
Well, I'll also have superpowers that no one knows about...

I'll be able to see thoughts, so that I cannot make a mistake when hitting on women.
Too bad they already did that movie.

What Women Want

But even in that movie he learned more about Woman and thier problems that he ended up respecting them. For some reason I dont see you learning that.

Originally posted by Scarlet Fox
Too bad they already did that movie.

What Women Want

But even in that movie he learned more about Woman and thier problems that he ended up respecting them. For some reason I dont see you learning that.

All I know is that once I know what they are thinking, I can walk into a party and automatically know which girl thinks I'm hot, and know exactly what she'd want me to say, and I'd say it!! Everyone's happy except the jelous dudes...that's why I'd have superhuman speed, a few complex moves hit in less than a second, and twenty fists to the face, and they're on their ass before they can blink.

That's why I always thought super speed would be way funner than super strength. With super strength it's a just a clumsy knock to the head and they are dead, I don't like hurting people, but I'd love to just be able to make anyone I fought look like a joke when I'm moving 100 times faster than them in a slowed down plane of existence. It's just so awesome, it's like, wow, that dude just hit me twenty times, and nothing I threw even remotely connected. I mean, think about how awesome that would be, you're incapable of being hit and you can take down a muscle bound freak within a hundredth of a second like it's nothing...without even hurting him, just trip him before he can think to throw a punch.

Your insecurities are many, are they not?

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Your insecurities are many, are they not?
I just call it high standards

Originally posted by Dolos
I just call it high standards


So you're admitting to being extremely insecure, then?

you know, if you threw a hundred punches a second, your fist flew a hundred times faster than human average, it would strike with a force a hundred times greater.

So you'd probably cave their skull in dood.

Originally posted by Oliver North
wait, are you still in highschool?

because "getting laid" would be way down on the list of things I'd want to experience if I could do anything...

might I recommend some LSD?

LoLz.

I'd be very careful with tampering with human DNA to become some "technological god" or whatever you think you'd become.

In the end, all you'd be is a half-mechanical monstrosity and would have lost your humanity.

I realize this is not the religion section, but I'll say it anyway: Jesus didn't come to earth to redeem half-human/half-machine hybrids. He came to earth to redeem human beings.

Originally posted by Bat Dude
I'd be very careful with tampering with human DNA to become some "technological god" or whatever you think you'd become.

In the end, all you'd be is a half-mechanical monstrosity and would have lost your humanity.

I realize this is not the religion section, but I'll say it anyway: Jesus didn't come to earth to redeem half-human/half-machine hybrids. He came to earth to redeem human beings.
Lol. You're so predictable. Get some new material.

Originally posted by Bat Dude
I realize this is not the religion section, but I'll say it anyway: Jesus didn't come to earth to redeem half-human/half-machine hybrids. He came to earth to redeem human beings.

That sounds like Jesus's problem.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Lol. You're so predictable. Get some new material.

As are you, kind sir. As are you.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
So you're admitting to being extremely insecure, then?
I'll simply admit that my ambitions are greater than yours.

Not just any sex Oliver North, the hottest most hardcore most erotic sex combined with the romance of Paul Newman's Long Hot Summer times a billion.

Love and orgy are more powerful drugs than LSD believe it or not.

Originally posted by NemeBro
you know, if you threw a hundred punches a second, your fist flew a hundred times faster than human average, it would strike with a force a hundred times greater.

So you'd probably cave their skull in dood.

Time has slowed around me, I have precise control over both the super acceleration and the super deceleration of my fists as well.

To the point where I may as well be a God of physical momentum, inertia, and dexterity...it can be applied to dancing with a partner as well...you could really take a girl for a ride with carefully implemented superspeed. Then there is getting her off a thousand different ways in one 12 hour night with precise, expert superspeed hitting that g-spot from so many different positions at once.

double post.

Originally posted by Bat Dude
I'd be very careful with tampering with human DNA to become some "technological god" or whatever you think you'd become.

In the end, all you'd be is a half-mechanical monstrosity and would have lost your humanity.

I realize this is not the religion section, but I'll say it anyway: Jesus didn't come to earth to redeem half-human/half-machine hybrids. He came to earth to redeem human beings.

I do not fear your dull and uninteresting interpretation of God...

What a miraculous transformation is it to replace all of my blood cells with cybernetic material capable of supplying my body with 265-350 times it's normal amount of oxygen? Implications are as astonishing as allowing our fragile bodies to survive unaided after losing over 90% our blood in the most fatal of incidents? To detoxify snake bites? To sprint all out, something that a person cannot sustain for more than a few seconds, for half an hour without even breathing heavy? To hold our breath for hours and hours and hours? Really? That is really possible? Oh God Damn I hope it is.

Is making human beings immune to all cancers and disabilities not right? Not just? Not rationalized? Not logical? That God wants us to play small and pathetic? I don't believe whatever God may be, that It created the perplexities of this cosmos to serve our needs, or for us, you dull-minded humanocentric fool. A God capable of such miracles as this Cosmos would not concieve a person with down syndrome, so that her disorder could get her mocked and made fun of from grade school up?...what a shame it is for a human to believe such a thing has a reason or rhyme to it, that it's God's mysterious mechanism to create these misfortunate freaks of nature to serve no no no absolutely NO purpose to society.

And btw, I wouldn't be a 'half cyborg'. Your viewpoint of the proposed Human Version 2.0 seems to be that of the million dollar man.

However, I'll tell you it's more like Doctor Manhattan and how the subtraction of his atomic polarity and charge allowed his psiconscious essence to reassemble his own body from the subatomic, ergo intrinsic (as in the fundamental essence of matter), level.

Except not on the subatomic level, on the molecular level, nanotechnologies have implications in nanoassembly and factories, they cannot go into and manipulate the atoms within the molecules...but in a thousand years after the Utopian Age, yocto-scopic technologies will be able to.

But even with the molecular-factories within the digital replacements for our cells, our capabilites would expand such that we would all look like stunning 18 year-olds picked from modelling agencies, immortal, super strong, and capable of learning everything known to man in the field of, for example, mathematics, within hours of study...and retaining that information in absolute detail, able to pull it for use on a whim, for all eternity.

Originally posted by Bat Dude
I'd be very careful with tampering with human DNA to become some "technological god" or whatever you think you'd become.

In the end, all you'd be is a half-mechanical monstrosity and would have lost your humanity.

just as a point of fact: manipulating DNA would not produce something "half-mechanical"

the end result would be entirely biological.

Originally posted by Dolos
Love and orgy are more powerful drugs than LSD believe it or not.

you could have just said "I've never taken acid"

Originally posted by Oliver North
you could have just said "I've never taken acid"

Taking LSD in the virtual world would be no less damage to neuro pathways than taking in real life.

As a human with a gooey brain, the virutal world would rely on chemicals to affect the brain so that it thinks it's 100% real, inner ear and everything. The difference is losing a limb in virtual world does not affect your real limb when you wake up.

Therefore it's awesome, because you can experience the regeneration of limbs and a 100% reaction from an onlooker thinking you are performing a miracle, you can experience have muscles a thousand times stronger, having sex with a goddess, etc etc...and it's what it would really be like...while nanotech does do these things for you in real life, even technology has limits, in the virutal world the limits are set by your fantasies.

Think about everyone around you in the virtual world, the world is a computer that knows the how people act and think and communicate in today's world, it's that smart, so therefore it's entities are reacting genuinely, they are real to you, they are their own people, and they are real to you, but they are nothing but computer programs that cannot never be made manifest fast your perceptions in the virtual world where you are omnipotent can have any fantasy.

My point was more about expanding your imagination so that, with the power to do whatever you wanted, you weren't so obsessed with trivial things like punching people really fast or sex.

And I'm not even going to try with the neuro stuff... pick your battles inimalist, pick your battles...

One may have experienced a relationship that wasn't as good as it could have been...maybe the partner wasn't attractive enough, maybe you made a mistake and nothing ever worked out...


That's why there's a necessity for me to make a virtual world, so that I have control, and can have as much fun and make a relationship as fulfilling as I want...and love is the most powerful source of euphoria to the human mind, not the love by itself, but the experience of a life with someone else, all those memories you have of them, of you with her/him and vice versa...as good as you want it to be...

Unhappiness ultimately comes from one thing, stuff isn't happening the way you want it to, or what you want to happen isn't happening. So the virtual world is Heaven, you can't be unhappy, because nothing is out of your reach and you can never be denied anything....you can eat more delicious cake and become more ripped and sexy as you do it...why not? It's a simple matter of coding....

Do you still think I am a minimalist?

Originally posted by Dolos
I do not fear your dull and uninteresting interpretation of God...

What a miraculous transformation is it to replace all of my blood cells with cybernetic material capable of supplying my body with 265-350 times it's normal amount of oxygen? Implications are as astonishing as allowing our fragile bodies to survive unaided after losing over 90% our blood in the most fatal of incidents? To detoxify snake bites? To sprint all out, something that a person cannot sustain for more than a few seconds, for half an hour without even breathing heavy? To hold our breath for hours and hours and hours? Really? That is really possible? Oh God Damn I hope it is.

Is making human beings immune to all cancers and disabilities not right? Not just? Not rationalized? Not logical? That God wants us to play small and pathetic? I don't believe whatever God may be, that It created the perplexities of this cosmos to serve our needs, or for us, you dull-minded humanocentric fool. A God capable of such miracles as this Cosmos would not concieve a person with down syndrome, so that her disorder could get her mocked and made fun of from grade school up?...what a shame it is for a human to believe such a thing has a reason or rhyme to it, that it's God's mysterious mechanism to create these misfortunate freaks of nature to serve no no no absolutely NO purpose to society.

And btw, I wouldn't be a 'half cyborg'. Your viewpoint of the proposed Human Version 2.0 seems to be that of the million dollar man.

However, I'll tell you it's more like Doctor Manhattan and how the subtraction of his atomic polarity and charge allowed his psiconscious essence to reassemble his own body from the subatomic, ergo intrinsic (as in the fundamental essence of matter), level.

Except not on the subatomic level, on the molecular level, nanotechnologies have implications in nanoassembly and factories, they cannot go into and manipulate the atoms within the molecules...but in a thousand years after the Utopian Age, yocto-scopic technologies will be able to.

But even with the molecular-factories within the digital replacements for our cells, our capabilites would expand such that we would all look like stunning 18 year-olds picked from modelling agencies, immortal, super strong, and capable of learning everything known to man in the field of, for example, mathematics, within hours of study...and retaining that information in absolute detail, able to pull it for use on a whim, for all eternity.

Everything you're saying, everything you're advocating, everything you're putting your trust in...

...is based on greed. "I want to be able to do this. I want to be able to do that. I want hot chicks. I want super powers. I want yadda yadda yadda."

You remind me of a guy on YouTube who wanted to be a Super Saiyan, and believed that humans could transcend beyond being human (transhumanism in a nutshell). He kept going on about human weakness and flaws that could be enhanced. How "oh we can walk, we can jump we can run, but that's it."

You're being so ungrateful for what you CAN do, for what God gave you, because you're salivating over pipe-dreams of being some "god" among men.

Your attitude is really unfortunate.

"But godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out."
-1 Timothy 6:6-7

Originally posted by Dolos
Do you still think I am a minimalist?

I've never thought you were a minimalist, I wouldn't give you that much credit

otherwise, ya, your idea sounds like the product of someone with little imagination

I personally am a nimalist

Originally posted by Dolos
I'll simply admit that my ambitions are greater than yours.

Your ambitions, given limitless power, are "get laid" and "punch a guy".

I'd create virtual worlds and explore the subtle complexities of social, psychological, physical, and spiritual interaction within them.

Originally posted by Bat Dude
Everything you're saying, everything you're advocating, everything you're putting your trust in...

...is based on greed. "I want to be able to do this. I want to be able to do that. I want hot chicks. I want super powers. I want yadda yadda yadda."

You remind me of a guy on YouTube who wanted to be a Super Saiyan, and believed that humans could transcend beyond being human (transhumanism in a nutshell). He kept going on about human weakness and flaws that could be enhanced. How "oh we can walk, we can jump we can run, but that's it."

You're being so ungrateful for what you CAN do, for what God gave you, because you're salivating over pipe-dreams of being some "god" among men.

Your attitude is really unfortunate.

"But godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out."
-1 Timothy 6:6-7

That dude doesn't sound like a transhumanist, he sounds like he is delusional. Have I not already said twice, in two different posts, that I will pursue a realistic life style regardless of what I choose to delve into, such as you fantasizing about what heaven will be like.

This is a transhumanist:

X4Neivqp2K4

Yes, he's a transhumanist, but do you know how ****ing smart he is??

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I'd create virtual worlds and explore the subtle complexities of social, psychological, physical, and spiritual interaction within them.

Finally I'm getting a straight answer.

If I had limitless power I'd retcon the Constantine film to be a) about Hellblazer Constantine and b) to be good, and then I'd watch it.

I'm a man of simple pleasures.

I'd also make celery taste good, cause **** celery, man

Originally posted by Dolos
Yes, he's a transhumanist, but do you know how ****ing smart he is??

"Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,"
-Romans 1:22

I'm pretty sure that Symmetric Chaos can't write the Hello World! program in any language, let alone design a three-dimensional world with graphical interface.

Besides, it makes no sense to explore what you've written. Because you'd know how it would behave.

What's this topic really about, having god-like power or living in a utopia?

Originally posted by Astner
What's this topic really about, having god-like power or living in a utopia?

Dolos is of the opinion that in a utopia people would have this limitless power, so it has sort of become about both

Originally posted by Oliver North
Dolos is of the opinion that in a utopia people would have this limitless power, so it has sort of become about both

I'm pretty sure that's not the case in Thomas More's but we don't all have to agree on what a Utopia is, amirite?

Originally posted by Astner
Besides, it makes no sense to explore what you've written. Because you'd know how it would behave.



Underlying conditions and scenarios are written, your life is played out to uncertaintity under desired circumstances.

The circumstances are what we need to for a greater plausibility to achieve experiences that we want. Social interaction with lifelike simulations is what matters, but these however they act is not predetermined, but based on free will. You're the only one with the knowledge that this virtual world is yours for the taking.

And it's is not virtual in the since of computer programming, but whatever kind of neuralogical interactions that go on within the nanotech brains of our godlike descendants. It's direct mind-uplaoding to be exact.

Originally posted by Bat Dude
"Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,"
-Romans 1:22 Yeah well Romans are stupid anyway.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Yeah well Romans are stupid anyway.

Especially around 1:00-1:30.

Read back now, feel this is appropriate:

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/sheeple.png

Originally posted by Bat Dude
"Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,"
-Romans 1:22

I said smart as in intelligent, not as in a good decision maker.

Originally posted by Dolos
All I know is that once I know what they are thinking, I can walk into a party and automatically know which girl thinks I'm hot, and know exactly what she'd want me to say, and I'd say it!! Everyone's happy except the jelous dudes...that's why I'd have superhuman speed, a few complex moves hit in less than a second, and twenty fists to the face, and they're on their ass before they can blink.

And the woman you hit on, once she found out what you said wasn't genuine. But perhaps you can use the speedforce to beat her up too. Really, superspeed solves any interpersonal problems, especially ones stemming from immaturity and lack of empathy.

Originally posted by Bardock42
And the woman you hit on, once she found out what you said wasn't genuine. But perhaps you can use the speedforce to beat her up too. Really, superspeed solves any interpersonal problems, especially ones stemming from immaturity and lack of empathy.

I would also give myself the ability to memory wipe. So that she'd keep forgetting that everything I said was spot on.

And yes, this ability is better for erasing memories than alchohol..

Originally posted by Dolos
I would also give myself the ability to memory wipe. So that she'd keep forgetting that everything I said was spot on.

And yes, this ability is better for erasing memories than alchohol..

So, basically you'd use a "utopia" to rape women.

If only there was a word that would describe such a society better.

Originally posted by Bardock42
So, basically you'd use a "utopia" to rape women.

If only there was a word that would describe such a society better. I was joking.

Like I said, I don't think, for anyone, there is an experience more powerfully euphoric than love.

Originally posted by Dolos
...and love is the most powerful source of euphoria to the human mind, not the love by itself, but the experience of a life with someone else, all those memories you have of them, of you with her/him and vice versa...as good as you want it to be...

Originally posted by Dolos
I was joking.

Like I said, I don't think, for anyone, there is an experience more powerfully euphoric than love.

Pick your battles, inimalist, pick your battles.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Pick your battles, inimalist, pick your battles.

Inimalist isn't officially a word.

Fact.

Originally posted by Dolos
Inimalist isn't officially a word.

Fact.

That is true, neither are any other English words however.

Originally posted by Bardock42
That is true, neither are any other English words however. I see your post but it's full of nonsense runes and symbols. Speak plainly, magic man!

Originally posted by Dolos
Inimalist isn't officially a word.

Fact.

"inimalist" is never capitalized, however

Originally posted by Dolos
I was joking.

you aren't really though

invading a woman's mind so that you say things that make her sleep with you is hardly more justifiable than simply giving her Rohypnol.

Originally posted by Oliver North
"inimalist" is never capitalized, however

I don't care if you make up your own words. However, you will utilize them with proper grammar. Always capitalize the first word in a sentence. End with a period. Thank you.



How would you know that? Get out of my head. Speaking of such;



Even if she's not really real?

Originally posted by Dolos
I don't care if you make up your own words. However, you will utilize them with proper grammar. Always capitalize the first word in a sentence. End with a period. Thank you.

but it is the second letter of the word...

Originally posted by Dolos
Even if she's not really real?

wait... so in the computer simulation that you want almost exclusively for the purpose of having sex with women, you not only still have to hit on them and pick them up, but you would need to read their virtual mind in order to be successful?

this is the least effective masturbatory aide ever

Originally posted by Oliver North
but it is the second letter of the word?

You omitted the m in minimalist, then you claimed that "inimalist" has a deeper meaning than minimalist: indicating that they are two different words. However, you are incorrect on both accounts, because "inimalist" doesn't have a meaning beyond your own definition nor is it apart of the English language - or any other language for that matter.

It wouldn't be Utopia for long if I was there. Drone strike!

Originally posted by Dolos
You omitted the m in minimalist, then you claimed that "inimalist" has a deeper meaning than minimalist: indicating that they are two different words. However, you are incorrect on both accounts, because "inimalist" doesn't have a meaning beyond your own definition nor is it it's own word.

/facepalm

check my user profile

I'd like you to know I understand now.

Anyway, if reading her mind and appealing to her dream guy is rape; than aren't we all raping women?

I mean, she will have feelings for me, just as I would have feelings for her. We would nurture them and it would be love, not just hardcore sex all the time mind you. I would be consenting to do whatever makes her happy because I am interested in her, no female can offer me just sex, or I would leave her after the third time ya know?

Pick your battles inimalist, pick your battles Bardock.

In fact, you shouldn't really try to argue with me, I never lie and I'm always right.

Originally posted by Dolos
Anyway, if reading her mind and appealing to her dream guy is rape; than aren't we all raping women?

its not exactly rape, but it is certainly dishonest, manipulative and a violation of her privacy.

I don't know, I've never had to lie to or manipulate a woman to have sex with her /shrug

Many things are justifiable in the jungle of love!

Originally posted by Prezzy Obama
Many things are justifiable in the jungle of love!

According to Bardock anything you do (being nice, trying to impress, buying, spoiling) for a woman to get her to like you is a form of rape!!

It's only reading her mind is garanteed.

No but seriously it's kinda difficult not to seduce a woman when you're a man who knows exactly what to do and when to do it. The fact is that if she's not into you, and never would be you, you'd know, because you could read her mind! So unless every single female you come across has a 100% certaintity of rejection, you're 100% garanteed not to be rejected. Think of it is as broadening your scopes.

And no that's not like the 60% of the time it works everytime quote DON'T SAY IT IS!

Originally posted by Oliver North
its not exactly rape, but it is certainly dishonest, manipulative and a violation of her privacy.

I don't know, I've never had to lie to or manipulate a woman to have sex with her /shrug Why have I been summoned here?

Then you aren't setting your sites high enough.

Originally posted by Dolos
Think of it is as broadening your scopes.

I prefer to think of it as an invasion of privacy :/

Originally posted by Oliver North
its not exactly rape, but it is certainly dishonest, manipulative and a violation of her privacy.



How is it dishonest or manipulative.

We are what we repeatedly do.



I'm not just talking about sex here. Love, ya know, the thing I just quoted after saying it twice already? The memories we hold? Whatever.

Originally posted by Dolos
Anyway, if reading her mind and appealing to her dream guy is rape; than aren't we all raping women?

Generally if you think that you need to erase someone's memory after having sex with them you're either a pathetic loser or a pathetic rapist.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Generally if you think that you need to erase someone's memory after having sex with them you're either a pathetic loser or a pathetic rapist. What if when having sex with them you tripled yourself?

Originally posted by Dolos
How is it dishonest or manipulative.

dishonest: she has no idea you know her thoughts

manipulative: you are using her private thoughts to get her to do what you want

Originally posted by Dolos
I'm not just talking about sex here. Love, ya know, the thing I just quoted after saying it twice already? The memories we hold? Whatever.

re:

Originally posted by Oliver North
I don't know, I've never had to lie to or manipulate a woman to have sex a romantic relationship with her /shrug

It is rape of course. You wouldn't be convicted, cause it is in essence not provable (though most rapists are never convicted anyways, so you'd be in company). If you don't think it is rape take an equivalent example, you give someone a drug that makes them do whatever you want and make them have sex with you I think we can all agree that would be rape. And that's basically what you intend with perhaps slight constraints.

And no, it's not the same as little disingenuity on dates like being on your best behavior, wearing make up. There is obviously some line, if you were to research/stalk a person and change your behavior to fit what you think they like, and pretend to have interests and opinions you don't have because they have them just to have sex with them, that would be incredibly sleazy and quite close to that line, but the scenario you described totally overshot it, it's rape. You want to rape people. Congrats.

Bardock, it sounds like you need a good ol fashioned raping.

Originally posted by Mindset
Bardock, it sounds like you need a good ol fashioned raping.

He does.

Nothing like first hand experience to shake you out of hating guys like in What Women Want.

Full fledged rape vs mind reading.

http://i.minus.com/iFFgnxlO34HeU.gif

Originally posted by Bardock42
It is rape of course. You wouldn't be convicted, cause it is in essence not provable (though most rapists are never convicted anyways, so you'd be in company). If you don't think it is rape take an equivalent example, you give someone a drug that makes them do whatever you want and make them have sex with you I think we can all agree that would be rape. And that's basically what you intend with perhaps slight constraints.

And no, it's not the same as little disingenuity on dates like being on your best behavior, wearing make up. There is obviously some line, if you were to research/stalk a person and change your behavior to fit what you think they like, and pretend to have interests and opinions you don't have because they have them just to have sex with them, that would be incredibly sleazy and quite close to that line,

The **** cares about your opinions? Who cares if I'm sleazy, as long as I'm not alone, which would be the path you'd go down if everthing = rape.



Okay, you ate food today. Therefore you're a rapist! -points finger of condemnation- Gratz.

Get rid of that avi, it makes you a rapist.

Another meaning for rape is - an act of plunder, violent seizure, or abuse; despoliation; violation: the rape of the countryside.

You're raping my eyes with your avi.

You want to lie and manipulate a girl by knowing her thoughts and saying and doing what will get her to sleep with you, then you want to wipe her mind. Tell me, how is that different than slipping her a roofie?

nono, he wants to do all that to have a romantic relationship, not just sex

its closer to slavery than rape

My bad.

So is this romantic relationship basically gonna work like 50 First Dates? Just that he memory wipes her every night?

Although, I would say rape is still applicable if not the whole picture. Perhaps slavery featuring rape?

oh, my bad entirely, I didn't mean to make them sound mutually exclusive

Your personal ethical arguments seem somewhat banal when innocent people are dying for numerous reasons worldwide. Shame, shame on you all.

Rape, slavery, I own her heart too.

http://d22zlbw5ff7yk5.cloudfront.net/images/cm-22544-0505c247a97f8e.gif

Originally posted by Prezzy Obama
Your personal ethical arguments seem somewhat banal when innocent people are dying for numerous reasons worldwide. Shame, shame on you all.
Mairuzu, is that you?

Mairuzu can't be here right now, he's currently sued by Ron Paul over some website.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Mairuzu, is that you?
I wish Mairuzu was still around. I loved talkin with him. ^.^

Originally posted by Scarlet Fox
I wish Mairuzu was still around. I loved talkin with him. ^.^
He probably joined a commune of smug libertarian stoners in Vermont, thinking that Vermont was a province of Canada.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
He probably joined a commune of smug libertarian stoners in Vermont, thinking that Vermont was a province of Canada.
It might as well be, really.

I know not who this Mairuzu is but if he believes whilst we are all online killing time, the overlords are killing the innocent... Then he is allright by me.

Originally posted by Prezzy Obama
I know not who this Mairuzu is but if he believes whilst we are all online killing time, the overlords are killing the innocent... Then he is allright by me.
I would actually gain some respect for him if that's the case. No one likes an armchair activist.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I would actually gain some respect for him if that's the case. No one likes an armchair activist.

Other armchair activists do....

Originally posted by Prezzy Obama
Other armchair activists do.... Not neccessarily.

Originally posted by Dolos
Not neccessarily.

True, but certainly sometimes. Maybe even often. Do you have figures?