Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

All-out fight.

Setting: Geonosis Arena.

I'm curious to know what you good people of the SW forums think.

Nyriss is a cut above Dooku imo.

I've yet to formally read Revan so I suppose I'll pull for the Count, until I see some other good viewpoints.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Nyriss is a cut above Dooku imo.

Not saying I disagree, but why do you say so?

Well, Revan was able to redirect her lightning... But as described, it was an extremely powerful lightning and she did manage to easily out-duel Scourge and Surik at the same time, both of which have been described as remarkable duelists themselves.

He stands a chance with his lightsaber, but I doubt he could have dominated two such powerful opponents at the same time while flanked. Meetra may have appeared weak in the novel, but lets not forget that she defeated an entire temple of Sith on Malachor including Sion and Kreia. The latter of who did call her her greatest student.

Originally posted by Rookwood
For some reason, I can see Dooku handling her with a lightsaber.
This some reason is misplaced.

Originally posted by Rookwood
And would he not have some defenses for her Lightning and other shenanigans?
He will be rather put out of comission.

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
Well, Revan was able to redirect her lightning... But as described, it was an extremely powerful lightning and she did manage to easily out-duel Scourge and Surik at the same time, both of which have been described as remarkable duelists themselves.
That is Revan's power.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Her stands a chance with his lightsaber, but I doubt he could have dominated two such powerful opponents at the same time while flanked. Meetra may have appeared weak in the novel, but lets not forget that she defeated an entire temple of Sith on Malachor including Sion and Kreia.

I know that, that's precisely why I said she was remarkable. And Scourge has been described as one of the best duelists during his time at the Sith academy, with even the Masters afraid of being pitted against him.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He stands a chance with his lightsaber, but I doubt he could have dominated two such powerful opponents at the same time while flanked. Meetra may have appeared weak in the novel, but lets not forget that she defeated an entire temple of Sith on Malachor including Sion and Kreia. The latter of who did call her her greatest student.
If this helps:

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Darth Sion:-

Darth Sion's body had been torn apart and knitted back together into a patchwork of mutilated flesh. This left him in eternal pain, his broken body held together only by his hatred and power of the dark side. Sion was exceedingly difficult to kill, because his mastery over his own body lent him supernatural vitality. (Star Wars The Complete Encyclopedia)

Darth Traya:-

Although Traya was more powerful, the Exile managed to defeat her in combat. (Star Wars The Complete Encyclopedia)

Darth Traya was very powerful; she exterminated several Jedi Masters simultaneously like fodder with her signature power. She shouldn't be underestimated.

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
I know that, that's precisely why I said she was remarkable. And Scourge has been described as one of the best duelists during his time at the Sith academy, with even the Masters afraid of being pitted against him.
This guy has killed more then a thousand Force-wielders by himself.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
This guy has killed more then a thousand Force-wielders by himself.

Yes, but this happened after the events of Revan, didn't it?

I know he killed loads of Jedi.

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
Yes, but this happened after the events of Revan, didn't it?

I know he killed loads of Jedi.
In total.

The guy is an expert swordsman; one of the best duelists in the Galactic history perhaps.

Well I wouldn't go that far.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Well I wouldn't go that far.
Why not, bro?

When a Jedi grew too powerful or a Sith too ambitious, Scourge eliminated the threat. (Star Wars The Complete Encyclopedia)

Kill record (Jedi/Sith): 1000+

What more evidence do we need?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Why not, bro?

When a Jedi grew too powerful or a Sith too ambitious, Scourge eliminated the threat. (Star Wars The Complete Encyclopedia)

Kill record (Jedi/Sith): 1000+

What more evidence do we need?

With that kind of experience and a kill record like that, this guy should be slick as oil and on par with Mace Windu.

Originally posted by Rookwood
With that kind of experience and a kill record like that, this guy should be slick as oil and on par with Mace Windu.
Well, canonically this guy IS very impressive. Top duelists are to expected from any era and not just PT and newer eras.

Feat-to-feat, Tyranus wastes her as both a Force adept and duelist. Her greatest showing was one on a world that bristles with the dark side; borrowed energy that would not be available to her on Geonosis.

Wow, making the Exile look like a chump.

Darth Tyranus by far.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He stands a chance with his lightsaber, but I doubt he could have dominated two such powerful opponents at the same time while flanked. Meetra may have appeared weak in the novel, but lets not forget that she defeated an entire temple of Sith on Malachor including Sion and Kreia. The latter of who did call her her greatest student.

^In-game feats aren't canon. You can sneak through all those Sith in KOTOR II.
Sion is mindgamed into losing and he has a soft spot for the canoncial female exile. Kriea would not dare strike down the student who embodies her teachings, and bar that her greatest feat (giga draining the masters) is useless against the Exile.

Kreia's greatest student statement is pretty much retconed when Revan utterly outclasses her in the Revan novel.

Meetra and Scourge are formidable. But let's not forget the good Count fought against Skywalker and Kenobi simultaneously. Kenobi and Skywalker>>>Meetra Surik and Scourge.

Where as Kenobi took on the Maul brothers, Meetra struggled against two guardsman. Now granted I recognize these are not ordinary guards, there's no way in hell I'd say they're anywhere near Savage and Maul.

Tyranus' feats eclipse Nyriss' by a lot. I'd give Nyriss a win against Maul but not Dooku.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
^In-game feats aren't canon. You can sneak through all those Sith in KOTOR II.
Sion is mindgamed into losing and he has a soft spot for the canoncial female exile. Kriea would not dare strike down the student who embodies her teachings, and bar that her greatest feat (giga draining the masters) is useless against the Exile.

Kreia's greatest student statement is pretty much retconed when Revan utterly outclasses her in the Revan novel.

Meetra and Scourge are formidable. But let's not forget the good Count fought against Skywalker and Kenobi simultaneously. Kenobi and Skywalker>>>Meetra Surik and Scourge.

Where as Kenobi took on the Maul brothers, Meetra struggled against two guardsman. Now granted I recognize these are not ordinary guards, there's no way in hell I'd say they're anywhere near Savage and Maul.

Tyranus' feats eclipse Nyriss' by a lot. I'd give Nyriss a win against Maul but not Dooku.

Being able to sneak past those guards is a game mechanic, seeing as they're Sith so even if she was invisible they could sense her, particularly since you have to go through closed doors and they clearly know she's coming given her greeting at the door. Also in Revan the Exile never demonstrated stealth abilities, even when it would have been an advantage to use them, such as when she was trying to rescue Revan. What isn't a game-mechanic is that its a Sith Temple, there are Sith there, and you need to get through it to get to Sion and Kreia.

Only after defeating him multiple times in combat and even if he was going easy I highly doubt he would continue to do so after she's beaten him once already. Theres nothing suggesting Kreia was going easy on the Exile seeing as she continues to fight even after losing her other hand. And as Legend has shown, Kreia was more powerful than the Exile and they were on a powerful Darkside nexus. Defeating Kriea is an impressive feat in and of itself. To try to dismiss it after she already run through an entire Sith temple and defeated Sion multiple times would be ignorance to the point of willfulness.

No it isn't, since Kreia never interacted with the Revan from that novel. It doesn't preclude the idea that the Exile was greater than the Revan Kriea knew and trained.

And lets not forget that Dooku lost that fight. And demonstrated none of the dominance that Nyriss showed in her fight. Even in AotC he took them on one-by-one and was visibly tired by the effort. You'll also note that I didn't say that Nyriss was his superior with a lightsaber, saying instead that Dooku stands a chance.

Thats an ABC argument.

You're welcome to your opinion, but it goes against the evidence friend.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Feat-to-feat, Tyranus wastes her as both a Force adept and duelist. Her greatest showing was one on a world that bristles with the dark side; borrowed energy that would not be available to her on Geonosis.
Feat-to-feat based comparisons are lame attempts to belittle those characters which haven't been explored much in big budget mediums.

Fact is that she subdued two expert duelists simultaneously in such a manner that they seemed helpless; the performance on its whole is incredible. These expert duelists also happen to be more formidable then brothers whom Sidious fought. Just because we didn't see some flashy telekinetic feats from them; doesn't means that these individuals could not perform impressive feats with the Force, given their strength and reputation.

Nyriss is also a master of Sith Sorcery but didn't called upon a dark side nexus to boost her power or utilize strange methods to subdue her opponents (like Zannah) during her struggle against Scourge and Meetra. The only place in Dromund Kaas which is touted to be a dark side nexus is the Dark Temple.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Darth Tyranus by far.
He is outclassed here.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Being able to sneak past those guards is a game mechanic, seeing as they're Sith so even if she was invisible they could sense her, particularly since you have to go through closed doors and they clearly know she's coming given her greeting at the door. Also in Revan the Exile never demonstrated stealth abilities, even when it would have been an advantage to use them, such as when she was trying to rescue Revan. What isn't a game-mechanic is that its a Sith Temple, there are Sith there, and you need to get through it to get to Sion and Kreia.

Only after defeating him multiple times in combat and even if he was going easy I highly doubt he would continue to do so after she's beaten him once already. Theres nothing suggesting Kreia was going easy on the Exile seeing as she continues to fight even after losing her other hand. And as Legend has shown, Kreia was more powerful than the Exile and they were on a powerful Darkside nexus. Defeating Kriea is an impressive feat in and of itself. To try to dismiss it after she already run through an entire Sith temple and defeated Sion multiple times would be ignorance to the point of willfulness.

No it isn't, since Kreia never interacted with the Revan from that novel. It doesn't preclude the idea that the Exile was greater than the Revan Kriea knew and trained.

And lets not forget that Dooku lost that fight. And demonstrated none of the dominance that Nyriss showed in her fight. Even in AotC he took them on one-by-one and was visibly tired by the effort. You'll also note that I didn't say that Nyriss was his superior with a lightsaber, saying instead that Dooku stands a chance.

Thats an ABC argument.

You're welcome to your opinion, but it goes against the evidence friend.
Well said.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Why not, bro?

When a Jedi grew too powerful or a Sith too ambitious, Scourge eliminated the threat. (Star Wars The Complete Encyclopedia)

Kill record (Jedi/Sith): 1000+


Well, he is immortal.

He liked got the large majority of those post-Revan, and he could've lost a fair number of fights, just, y'know, not died so got to keep at it

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Tyranus' feats eclipse Nyriss' by a lot.



Devoid of a world powerful in the dark side to bolster her energies, there's no proof that she could take on someone of Dooku's caliber.

Originally posted by The_Tempest


Devoid of a world powerful in the dark side to bolster her energies, there's no proof that she could take on someone of Dooku's caliber.
This seems like a desperate attempt to favor a character on the basis of personal liking.

First read about how people become Dark Councilers:

To serve on the Dark Council is to achieve the greatest position of honor, power and influence in the Empire. Many Sith spend their entire lives plotting their ascension to the council, but with millions vying only for 12 seats, the competition is cutthroat. The powerful few who join the council often serve for only a few months, their lives cut short by internal power struggles or external enemies who target them for assassination. (Star Wars The Old Republic Encyclopedia)

Nyriss lasted around 20 years within the Council. It is a big accomplishment.

Also, Nyriss didn't used her Sith Sorcery skills to subdue Scourge and Meetra simultaneously. She did so in a fair manner.

Prove powerful world in the darkside makes someone drastically more powerful please. Dooku was still Yoda's lesser on world strong in the darkside, and he isn't completely outclassed on neutral territory.

Or here's another ways of looking at it: Darth tyranus descends form the rule of two, he lives in era where there is just 2 siths. This setting contains just two siths as well, his power remains the same. Nyriss on the other hand hails form time where there were legions of siths. In this new setting he will experience a universe with far stronger dark side power, bringing his powers to new heaights, making him vastly more powerful than his portryala in the books and vastly more powerful than count.

I don't have to. It falls to those arguing in her favor to prove that she's capable of overcoming Dooku on neutral ground.

Not to mention that your example requires that dark side nexuses are all comparable in strength and are uniform in advantage.

Originally posted by Q99
Well, he is immortal.
He is not immortal like the Sith Emperor.

Originally posted by Q99
He liked got the large majority of those post-Revan, and he could've lost a fair number of fights, just, y'know, not died so got to keep at it
Well, we don't know.

Only two individuals defeated him in single combat as per revelations till date.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I don't have to. It falls to those arguing in her favor to prove that she's capable of overcoming Dooku on neutral ground.

Not to mention that your example requires that dark side nexuses are all comparable in strength and are uniform in advantage.

Prove that shes not capable of overcoming Dooku on nuetral ground please.

You can respond to me to your heart's content, but I won't be reading your posts and I definitely have no interest in addressing them.

Disregard if you haven't been addressing me.

Well, Darth Traya lost to Meetra Surik in a region strong in the dark side. And Darth Traya is canonically stronger.

So regions don't make major difference in outcomes until or unless Sith Sorcery is in the works.

Originally posted by SebastianisI
Prove that shes not capable of overcoming Dooku on nuetral ground please.

I don't have to prove a negative, bro.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Kreia's greatest student statement is pretty much retconed when Revan utterly outclasses her in the Revan novel.

Greatest does not mean most powerful. The Exile was Kreia's greatest student as she best embodied Kreia's teachings.

Originally posted by ares834
Greatest does not mean most powerful. The Exile was Kreia's greatest student as she best embodied Kreia's teachings.

I always took it to mean that Surik was the most attractive. Let's be honest, Kreia is a very poorly-disguised dyke.

(Post removed)

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I don't have to prove a negative, bro.

If they cannot prove positive and you cannot prove negative then nothing can be proven pal. So we have to meat halfway. And that means agreeing that a nexus is a nexus unless we are told that it is a particularly strong or weak nexus.

Originally posted by SebastianisI
"Raises Hand" I endorse him.

If that's not an indictment of his intellect, I don't know what is. excellent

Originally posted by SebastianisI
It's not like were dealing with that guy posting pornographic pictures in the battle thread,

I can respect a man who appreciates the female breast. (At least, I assume that's what he was fixated on.) mmm

Originally posted by SebastianisI
If they cannot prove positive and you cannot prove negative then nothing can be proven pal.

It's not my burden, bro.

The pro-Nyriss camp has to present a logical argument that Nyriss's abilities be formidable enough to overcome the Count on neutral ground. All I need do, clever man that I am, is wait.

And smirk condescendingly as they fail.

And then, as they weep and flail in the depths of their despair, I'll lean down and laugh right in their faces.

And feed off their misery.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
If that's not an indictment of his intellect, I don't know what is. excellent

Why thank you.



lol

Originally posted by The_Tempest
It's not my burden, bro.

The pro-Nyriss camp has to present a logical argument that Nyriss's abilities be formidable enough to overcome the Count on neutral ground. All I need do, clever man that I am, is wait.

And smirk condescendingly as they fail.

And then, as they weep and flail in the depths of their despair, I'll lean down and laugh right in their faces.

And feed off their misery.



Hmm I disagree it is burden of everyone who enters thread to prove their argument until other side is beaten/admits defeat.

Also what do you propose we ignore those feats completely? What if a character only has performed feats in setting of a nexus?

As per Star Wars The Old Republic Encyclopedia, the Dark Temple became a dark side nexus. Dromund Kaas itself haven't been labelled as a dark side nexus in the same source.

The advantages of fighting in a nexus are overrated IMO. Unless an individual takes proper advantage of the nexus by using Sith Sorcery or something; the region itself doesn't transforms a dark sider in to a juggernaut of destruction.

Meetra Surik fought and defeated both Darth Sion and Darth Traya in a region strong in the dark side; Malachor V. Why would she not perform good on Dromund Kaas?

Similarly, if it is assumed that Darth Nyriss had homefield advantage in Dromund Kaas, then same would be true for Lord Scourge as well. Why the latter still lost to her?

It makes no sense to underestimate Darth Nyriss's skills and power.

No one mentioned that Meetra was weakened after Nathema