Cyclops (Full Phoenix Force) VS The Void

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wildernesss
Cyclops (Full Phoenix Force) VS The Void

No prep. Both are going all out.











who wins?

Lord Feron
Cyke

wildernesss
how? Void doesn't die unless he wants to.

Odekahn
No more void

carver9
Spite.

SevenShackles
Scott summers ftw

Originally posted by wildernesss
how? Void doesn't die unless he wants to.
Then he shouldn't be allowed in the VS thread as there is no way to kill him unless he is fighting a sentry plot device.

wildernesss
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g282/acurarsx06/fail.jpg


what are phoenix powered cykes feats which suggest he could defeat void? how does he defeat void? the void doesn't die unless he WANTS to. the void destroyed loki. does full phoenix force jean grey have a feat that matches that? void is a master of telepathy, he could screw with cyke's mind and turn him into a sandwich.

wildernesss
Originally posted by SevenShackles
Scott summers ftw


Then he shouldn't be allowed in the VS thread as there is no way to kill him unless he is fighting a sentry plot device.


by that logic Thanos should not be in any threads. yet, he is in a lot of them. big grin

SevenShackles
Originally posted by wildernesss
by that logic Thanos should not be in any threads. yet, he is in a lot of them. big grin

Lol well thanos has still got himself Beaten. VOID just is.. He shows up all unstoppable ripping gods in half and being all menacing then bob or whatever wants to die and allows himself to be killed. Thanos puts up a fight and if he doesn't win he is either beaten or gives up. Voids only method of losing is to give up.

In a VS setting I see no reason for him to want to lose so by your definition of his power level he just doesn't lose. Makes him kinda boring laughing out loud
Can't die, master telepathy and seemingly all powerful...eh why even bother?

ThereIsHope
Thanos only meathod of winning is fanboys writing the writers threatning suicide.

guy222
Cyke w ease

KingD19
It took two reality warpers erasing Dark Cyclop's power source to stop him. And they could only pull that off because one of them was the intended vessel for the Phoenix in the first place.

yaadaveyaa
void owns easily wins this destroys this punk ***** cyclops is a busta would get eaten up by the void its already been stated without cis void doesnt die

ThereIsHope
Originally posted by yaadaveyaa
void owns easily wins this destroys this punk ***** cyclops is a busta would get eaten up by the void its already been stated without cis void doesnt die

I sense much anger in you............come over to the dark side...........we have STUFF big grin

leonidas
not void. seems like some no limits going on with void. brutally terrible character btw. imo anyway.

Endless Mike
This has been done before, Cyclops won

ThereIsHope
How to be a douch lesson one.

Call all guys BRA.

wildernesss
Originally posted by Endless Mike
This has been done before, Cyclops won


http://i474.photobucket.com/albums/rr107/alvinozhki/lupin.gif




what part of void doesn't die unless he wants to don't you understand?

Batman-Prime
Cyclops wins, fatality!

wildernesss
Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Cyclops wins, fatality!


http://i321.photobucket.com/albums/nn399/netherways/Fail.jpg



cyclops could barely stop xavier with the pf; the void killed Loki in five seconds after destroying most of the avengers who had to be resurrected with the norn stones. oh ya, i almost forget....the void is can't die unless it wills it.

scott's feats with the pf are relatively fail.

leonidas
with 1/5 of the pf a group of the most powerful avengers including thor (who is >>loki) could barely knock namor DOWN. scott would incinerate loki in a heartbeat if he chose--though he wouldn't have since he was still fighting the pf. he wouldn't have any such inhibition here in the forum. and this nonsensical no limits fallacy about the void not being able to die unless it wants to really needs to stop. so who CAN kill it? galactus? thanos with the ig? lt? classic beyonder? where exactly does the no limits end....?

ends with scott imo.

Oliver North
Just a question, because I don't actually understand the Void entirely, but is it an abstract part of the universe in the same way the PF is? Or is it an aspect of Sentry/Sentry and aspect of it? If that makes sense... Like, the Sentry isn't a "host" for the Void, but rather, is the Void?

Like, not saying that makes a whole lot of difference here (unless we are inferring things about the intent of a character), just curious.

Also, given this isn't the PF vs the Void, but rather, the PF needs to work through the host: Isn't Cyclops the weak link here? Like, Void could simply kill Summers and the fight would be over, without the Void having to defeat the actual PF. Like, sure, it wouldn't kill the PF or Cyclops for any prolonged period, but it would be enough for a vs Forum win, no?

leonidas
void is the dark side of sentry's power, you're right about that. he is not an abstract per se, more of a......manifestation i guess? and you're right--scott would definitely be the weak link--except in this battle, in this forum, he's been granted full power and no inhibitions/cis to interfere with his task. i really can't see how anyone can make a leap to conclude that void (who was harmed badly by a helicarrier and thor) can suddenly take on something like a fully powered pf host. maybe had void faced off against odin 1on1 for a length of time, we could have SOME basis for reaching the conclusion, but as it is, to say he wins because he only dies when he wants to is clearly a no limits fallacy that needs to stop. i don't even really care if someone thinks void wins this--just justify it with something aside from no limits.

753
dark phoenix cyclops should erase the void. I usually debate in favour of void's seemingly limitless resilience, but the phoneix is an abstract. one that embodies death/rebirth at that.

the void's best offensive feats (loki, MM, ares) just don't cut here.

wildernesss
scott does not have the experience or the mental stability to control the full PF properly. Nor does he have any feats worthy of mention during the course of the battle. scott was defeated through a plot device (the Iron Fist & Chaos magic) in the same way the void was defeated by the norn stones. the hellicarrier only weakened him because of the norn stone activation. the void was able to destroy most of the MU heroes and destroyed Loki. PF scott did not demonstrate the same mastery of the PF during the course of the battle. also, if scott had been "holding back" he wouldn't have killed xavier.


scott's mental instability is the key factor in confrontation. the void was already stated has having erased the memory of the sentry from everyone in the world. that kind of telepathic ability suggests that scott would be at a sever disadvantage. also, if the molecule man couldn't erase the void from existence, PF powered scott wouldn't be able to.

-Pr-
Unless I'm remembering wrong, Void didn't wipe everyone's memories.

And where is this perceived mental instability coming from on Cyclops' part?

Oliver North
Originally posted by leonidas
void is the dark side of sentry's power, you're right about that. he is not an abstract per se, more of a......manifestation i guess? and you're right--scott would definitely be the weak link--except in this battle, in this forum, he's been granted full power and no inhibitions/cis to interfere with his task. i really can't see how anyone can make a leap to conclude that void (who was harmed badly by a helicarrier and thor) can suddenly take on something like a fully powered pf host. maybe had void faced off against odin 1on1 for a length of time, we could have SOME basis for reaching the conclusion, but as it is, to say he wins because he only dies when he wants to is clearly a no limits fallacy that needs to stop. i don't even really care if someone thinks void wins this--just justify it with something aside from no limits.

cool, thanks smile

Originally posted by wildernesss
scott does not have the experience or the mental stability to control the full PF properly.

OP says Scott has full access to the PF will total control, does it not?

Originally posted by -Pr-
Unless I'm remembering wrong, Void didn't wipe everyone's memories.

iirc, it was a machine made by Reed and Dr. Strange, unless they changed that at some point.

753
IIRC it was later retconned into sentry fueling the memory erasure gimmick, though he still needed assistance to get it done.

cyclops was indeed holding back as demonstrated by his inner dialogue at the end, especially when he kills beast then undoes it and wonders whether he could undo all the havok he's wreaking, xavier included.

although the mm couldnt erase the void permanently, I do believe the PF>>post-retcon MM

Endless Mike
Originally posted by wildernesss
http://i474.photobucket.com/albums/rr107/alvinozhki/lupin.gif




what part of void doesn't die unless he wants to don't you understand?

Cyclops makes him want to stick out tongue

wildernesss
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k295/phaedra13/Fail.jpg


-No...it wasn't reed and strange...that's from the mini; mastermind mind controlled bob reynolds into using the sentry/void's telepathy to erase the memory of sentry/void from everyone in the world. and was the sentry/void's power alone that fueled this. this is the same mastermind that brainwashed jean grey phoenix.

-cyclops perceived mental instability is coming from the fact that he is mentally unstable

-Pr-
He's not mentally unstable, though.

guy222
Weally

753
well, he was pretty out of it by the end of avx, but scott himself isnt unstable. unlike bob reynolds

Oliver North
Originally posted by 753
although the mm couldnt erase the void permanently, I do believe the PF>>post-retcon MM

pre-retcon MM was defeated by a depowered Thing and Man-Thing :P

wildernesss
Originally posted by 753
well, he was pretty out of it by the end of avx, but scott himself isnt unstable. unlike bob reynolds

were talking about the void here. not bob reynolds. void in full control means no bob. scott is still running most of the show when he hosting the PF.

and yes, scott is unstable, sorry to say. he's an egomaniac who thought he would be capable of controlling and harnessing a universal force of destruction to positive ends. that's borderline Luciferian until he became fully Luciferian. he also doesn't seem to think muc of tossing teenagers into harms way. that's called uber phucked up.

Oliver North
Just to clarify then, in the OP, you gave full PF power to Cyclops but not full control?

-Pr-
Cyclops being less morally good than he used to be isn't a sign of mental instability, unless you can prove he was somehow compromised.

if he has as much control in this thread as he did in the arc, or rather, the phoenix had as much influence, then there's no real instability to speak of, tbh.

wildernesss
Originally posted by Oliver North
Just to clarify then, in the OP, you gave full PF power to Cyclops but not full control?

full PF power doesn't even allow for full control unless the host is someone like rachael grey...in which case she was only hosting a fraction of the force IIRC. scott is more mentally unstable than jean grey was and jean couldn't even control it.

Oliver North
Originally posted by wildernesss
full PF power doesn't even allow for full control unless the host is someone like rachael grey...in which case she was only hosting a fraction of the force IIRC. scott is more mentally unstable than jean grey
was and jean couldn't even control it.

fair enough.

To someone who hasn't read AvX, that sort of seems like you are slanting the odds in favor of the Void. Like, any individual who was given full PF power would have issues controlling it.

Basically, its (Cyclops vs the PF) vs the Void. Cyclops is fighting two forces it seems.

753
Originally posted by wildernesss
were talking about the void here. not bob reynolds. void in full control means no bob. scott is still running most of the show when he hosting the PF.

and yes, scott is unstable, sorry to say. he's an egomaniac who thought he would be capable of controlling and harnessing a universal force of destruction to positive ends. that's borderline Luciferian until he became fully Luciferian. he also doesn't seem to think tossing teenagers into harms way. that's called uber phucked up. you really conflating moral judgements with mental instability. he didnt try to harness the phoenix for good ends out of egomania and the pf is a force of life, just as much as destruction.

753
Originally posted by wildernesss
full PF power doesn't even allow for full control unless the host is someone like rachael grey...in which case she was only hosting a fraction of the force IIRC. scott is more mentally unstable than jean grey was and jean couldn't even control it. you are ignoring wpotc, the repairation of the mkraan crystal, etc.

rachel ahd the full force for a good run, although it was the pf that controlled her and not the other way around and acted altruistically.

doesnt matter. a full pf tantrum should be enough to wipe void out

wildernesss
Originally posted by -Pr-
Cyclops being less morally good than he used to be isn't a sign of mental instability, unless you can prove he was somehow compromised.

if he has as much control in this thread as he did in the arc, or rather, the phoenix had as much influence, then there's no real instability to speak of, tbh.

scott's mental instability is evidenced by the egomania and narcissism and psychopathic behaviour reflected in his decision making and actions. the seed of it was present before he obtained the power, and it grew from there. he killed xavier with noemotional response or remorse....that's what psychopaths do. he endangered the planet without giving a crap. that's what psychopaths do. no emotional response or remorse. Need I remind you that sliverof the Void remains in Cyclop's mind to this day; the party line is that it was "contained" in a corner of his mind. yeah right. if that isn't reallydisturbing on top of everything else, I don't know what is. he's unstableand disturbed....the only question is to what extent he remains the psychopath from the AVSX.

wildernesss
Originally posted by 753
you really conflating moral judgements with mental instability. he didnt try to harness the phoenix for good ends out of egomania and the pf is a force of life, just as much as destruction.

His decision to even USE the PF was the decision of a egomaniac and narcissus. HE beleived that he was worthy of making a decision that could effectively destroy the planet because HIS vision was worth the risk. forget what every other genius in the MU has to say and all the brutal evidence to the contrary; his beleif in his decision making abilities is so monsterous that he would put everything at stake based on his belief in himself. when in that heavy a state of denial and delusion, you either have to be mentally unstable, and ego maniac narcissus, or both. to him, the prospect of rejuvenating the mutant population outweighed the risk of destroying the planet. notice how monumentally strong one's ego would have to be to beleif they have the right to make that decision?

-Pr-
Originally posted by wildernesss
scott's mental instability is evidenced by the egomania and narcissism and psychopathic behaviour reflected in his decision making and actions. the seed of it was present before he obtained the power, and it grew from there. he killed xavier with noemotional response or remorse....that's what psychopaths do. he endangered the planet without giving a crap. that's what psychopaths do. no emotional response or remorse. Need I remind you that sliverof the Void remains in Cyclop's mind to this day; the party line is that it was "contained" in a corner of his mind. yeah right. if that isn't reallydisturbing on top of everything else, I don't know what is. he's unstableand disturbed....the only question is to what extent he remains the psychopath from the AVSX.

you're confusing what he did under the phoenix's influence with scott himself. they aren't one and the same. he's morally questionable, not unstable.

Hell, even if you wanted to say he was a psychopath, that doesn't necessarily imply instability. The man was still out-thinking pretty much everyone even when he was going dark side.

you're free to believe that he suffers from egomania and/or narcissism, but I honestly don't think he was, nor do I think that was portrayed in the comics.

peejayd
Originally posted by wildernesss
Cyclops (Full Phoenix Force) VS The Void

No prep. Both are going all out.

* you stipulated that Cyke has full PF, and now you're making a "mentally unstable" excuse??? laughing

carver9
Don't know how this thread lasted so long.

Tony Stark
VOID wins SPITE

Mr.SunKing
cyclops

celeyhyga17
The bird will have soft shell crab for dinner. Void has no chance. None.

753
Originally posted by wildernesss
His decision to even USE the PF was the decision of a egomaniac and narcissus. HE beleived that he was worthy of making a decision that could effectively destroy the planet because HIS vision was worth the risk. forget what every other genius in the MU has to say and all the brutal evidence to the contrary; his beleif in his decision making abilities is so monsterous that he would put everything at stake based on his belief in himself. when in that heavy a state of denial and delusion, you either have to be mentally unstable, and ego maniac narcissus, or both. to him, the prospect of rejuvenating the mutant population outweighed the risk of destroying the planet. notice how monumentally strong one's ego would have to be to beleif they have the right to make that decision?

he did not believe he was worthy of anything. he believed the PF had come to earth to jumpstart the mutant race. this belief was based on cable's premonitions and warning; the fact that hope was the first mutant born after decimation, that when she came back from the future 5 more mutants emerged and were bonded to her and the fatc that she had already begun manifesting the PF power signature before the force set course to earth. and uess what? he was right.

he wanted the force for hope, not for himself, which leads us to those marvel geniuses youre ralking about: idiots who had no understanding of the PF. It was Tony Stark who fractured the PF among the extinction team instead of letting it run tis course to hope and the five lights as it should have (if you had read unit's tale from generation hope, you'd know this). and what did stark conclude in the end? that they should have let hope have the force from the beggining. based on what? a newfound belief in intuitive understanding of reality and "magic". how is that for brutal evidence? the best that can be said for the avengers actions is that the mystical training hope received helped her better do her thing when the time came. this was, of course, an orignally unintended secondary development.

As the phoenix interacted with the P5's emotional flaws, it corrupted them, but scott was the one who held on to sanity and compassion the best among them all. maybe they're all narcisistic psychopaths too huh. oh and jean grey as well.

753
Originally posted by wildernesss
scott's mental instability is evidenced by the egomania and narcissism and psychopathic behaviour reflected in his decision making and actions. the seed of it was present before he obtained the power, and it grew from there. he killed xavier with noemotional response or remorse....that's what psychopaths do. he endangered the planet without giving a crap. that's what psychopaths do. no emotional response or remorse. Need I remind you that sliverof the Void remains in Cyclop's mind to this day; the party line is that it was "contained" in a corner of his mind. yeah right. if that isn't reallydisturbing on top of everything else, I don't know what is. he's unstableand disturbed....the only question is to what extent he remains the psychopath from the AVSX.

what comics did you read? you obvisouly didnt read the uncanny x-men run of AvX as it shows what goes on in scott's mind as the dark phoenix. he is horrified at his own actions even as they take place, expresses remorse and tries to undo them (succesfully reviving hank mccoy), but is simultaneously hampered by his own emotional turmoil, flaws and the hunger of the phoenix which is tearing his psyche apart. the portrayal is akin to a psychotic episode.

after it was sad and done, he was so remorseful for xavier's death he tried to commit suicide by wolverine in avx consequences (great ****ing series btw, you should read it). the only thing that motivated him to keep on living was contact with a young mutant who was being targeted by the aryan brotherhood in prisons, whom he could keep alive.

it's like tou know nothing of cyclops's development throughout the arc and afterward.

pym-ftw
So a mental stability argument in a thread with Robert Reynolds and its not about him?

Now I've seen everything...

Slim stomps, he's a solid world threat or more, Void at best is a team buster+

Sundipped
Originally posted by wildernesss
http://i321.photobucket.com/albums/nn399/netherways/Fail.jpg



cyclops could barely stop xavier with the pf; the void killed Loki in five seconds after destroying most of the avengers who had to be resurrected with the norn stones. oh ya, i almost forget....the void is can't die unless it wills it.

scott's feats with the pf are relatively fail.

Scott killed Xavier with a thought. WTF are you talking about?

Batman-Prime
Cyke with the full PF sh!tspitestomps the Void, honestly.... how can this be not spite....

753
Originally posted by Sundipped
Scott killed Xavier with a thought. WTF are you talking about? not only that, chuck was only mindraping scott's "outer mind" as he and emma put it. they were far beyond him by that point. when cyke got angry enough to tap into a bigger part of the force, chuck was an instant-goner.

SamZED
Originally posted by pym-ftw
So a mental stability argument in a thread with Robert Reynolds and its not about him?

Now I've seen everything...

Slim stomps, he's a solid world threat or more, Void at best is a team buster+ Have you seen the what if Void wasnt stopped?

pym-ftw
Isn't it non canon?

DickBlazer
Spite Cyclops stomps

leonidas
Originally posted by SamZED
Have you seen the what if Void wasnt stopped?

he really kind of destroyed earth piecemeal, though. not like he obliterated it with a wave of a claw...that watcher also intimated that he could have stopped void had he intervened--he simply did not. void killed a few people in that book, but even in that what if i don't think it did anything to indicate that it could take a full-on pf powered host.

Branlor Swift
Why is this thread 3 pages?

Batman-Prime
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Why is this thread 3 pages?

Because someone can't accept that his fav char is in the Herald or at best the Trans tier ?

bbrem123
void is definitely beyond herald...come on now ha...but beating the full phoenix force...i dont know about that shit ha

bbrem123
Originally posted by leonidas
he really kind of destroyed earth piecemeal, though. not like he obliterated it with a wave of a claw...that watcher also intimated that he could have stopped void had he intervened--he simply did not. void killed a few people in that book, but even in that what if i don't think it did anything to indicate that it could take a full-on pf powered host. idk man that what if he was destroying everybody with no effort at all. And I dont think the watcher ever said he could have stopped void. Pretty sure they said the moon was next...thats about it

carver9
Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Because someone can't accept that his fav char is in the Herald or at best the Trans tier ?


You enjoy lowballing Marvel characters, don't you?

KingD19
Originally posted by bbrem123
idk man that what if he was destroying everybody with no effort at all. And I dont think the watcher ever said he could have stopped void. Pretty sure they said the moon was next...thats about it

Blue Marvel almost punched the moon in half, and that was holding back a considerable amount.

753
void is definitely above herald. his exact ranking is hard to define but I'd say high trans/low skyfather.it doesnt matter at all, PF eats him

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