Vitiate's Team -vs- Sidious's Team

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



Lengendary
Prominent players from the KotoR Era versus players from Post-KotoR.

Vitiate's Team:

Vitiate (After feeding on Nathema)
Revan (Peak)
Malak (Star Forge-enhanced)



Sidious' Team

(Dark Empire) Sidious
Darth Plagueis (Peak)
Count Dooku (Peak)


Battle takes place on Vjun. In the Courtyard of Bast Castle.

Starting Distance Apart: 10 Feet.

Can Vitiate's team win, or will Sidious' team crush them?

Dolos
I'd have to say Sidious' team because Sidious and Plagueis are stronger than everyone but Vitiate.

Ascendancy
Sidious' team conquers every time.

Mizukage Yoda
What is this?
Plagueis defeats anyone on team A.
ROTS Sidious defeats anyone on team A.
Dooku likely defeats anyone sans Vitiate on team A...

Nephthys
Vitiate mind-rapes. Trololololol!

axel_jovan

S_W_LeGenD
It is funny that people are underestimating Vitiate's dark side powers.

- What if Vitiate succeeds in mind-raping everybody?
- What if Vitiate destroys bodies of his opponents with his FL abilities?
- What if Vitiate employs Sith Sorcery to confuse or harm opponents during combat?

Vitiate have purged entire Dark Councils and defeated whole Strike Teams with his powers. It is stupid to cast his competencies aside with foolish assumptions that Sidious and Plagueis won't get hurt or loose their bodies after enduring extremely potent attacks.

Revan is also a very potent threat. With his Force powers, he can put significant pressue within the ranks of Sidious' team. Heck, Malak aboard Star Forge was also a very competent foe.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Dooku likely defeats anyone sans Vitiate on team A...
Dooku has nothing on these guys; seriously stop this blind Dooku wanking.

S_W_LeGenD

ares834
Team 1 is just outclassed.

Nephthys
In a fair fight, yes. But with mind rape haxx on their side they can take it.

The_Tempest
Yeah, that won't be happening. Setting aside the oft reiterated fact that Vitiate won't be able to subjugate his enemies with any meaningful speed, Sidious has "mindhaxxed" Starkiller, Luke, and Kam Solusar as well as billions of inhabitants from Byss and Coruscant. Who's to say he won't be delivering the mind rape?

Nephthys
Lol.

He didn't 'mindhaxx' Starkiller, he slightly compelled him to kill Vader. Starkiller wasn't under his control and it was shattered as soon as Kota spoke. Luke he only 'mindcontrolled' after defeating and torturing him and its very ambiguous if thats actually what he did. I dunno about Kam, show the evidence.

And obviously Byss was over several years and through probably ritualistic means.

S_W_LeGenD
Byss inhabitants were already loyal to Sidious.

Originally posted by ares834
Team 1 is just outclassed.
It isn't.

The_Tempest
*Bail Organa, not Kota.

The effect was described as "hypnotic suggestion" and "ghastly charisma" that "mesmerized" Starkiller. When Kota interfered and drew Palpatine's attention, Bail Organa's plea shattered "the Emperor's influence," which slid "off like oil."

Not seeing where Vitiate's version, after a millennium of study and munching on eight thousand Sith Lords, is any better. erm







Probably. But then, so too are Vitiate's. erm
Reference ambiguity and probability (or possibilities, for that matter), and I can bury all of Vitiate's highest showings in such things.

Which brings me back to the point I made elsewhere: Sidious dominates, no matter how you slice it.

Team 1 wins.

steveholt951

steveholt951
You're not sure how Vitiate's munching of 8,000 force using sith lords within a week or two is better than a gradual mind wipe of Byss' inhabitants? Hmmm

The_Tempest
Originally posted by steveholt951
You're not sure how Vitiate's munching of 8,000 force using sith lords within a week or two is better than a gradual mind wipe of Byss' inhabitants? Hmmm

Vitiate's leeching of Nathema required the participation of those 8k Sith Lords. Sidious enslaved and devoured a population 2.5 million times greater than those eight thousand. Sidious's feat is exponentially greater.

steveholt951
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Vitiate's leeching of Nathema required the participation of those 8k Sith Lords. Sidious enslaved and devoured a population 2.5 million times greater than those eight thousand. Sidious's feat is exponentially greater.

Sidious required decades for his "ritual", which didn't really do much for his "immortality", whereas Vitiate's 10 day long ritual granted him immortality. Vitiate's feat is more impressive.

The_Tempest
Originally posted by steveholt951
Sidious required decades for his "ritual",

Do you have a source for 'decades'? Byss and the Deep Core does not attribute an exact time measurement.

Originally posted by steveholt951
which didn't really do much for his "immortality",

Do you have a source that he sought immortality from this experiment? Because The Book of Sith simply says he was collecting an energy pool from Byss for alchemical experiments.

Originally posted by steveholt951
whereas Vitiate's 10 day long ritual granted him immortality. Vitiate's feat is more impressive.

If Sidious were intending to use it to achieve immortality, I might be inclined to agree. But the goal in this case is inconsequential. Sidious's efforts were more impressive in their scale and scope.

steveholt951
Since we don't know what "goals" Sidious had and since the inhabitants of Byss apparently lived out their lives fine, whether it was in a perpetual state of a valium induced high or not, it's not the same thing as getting the life sucked out of you, or destroying a planet and achieving immortality.

The_Tempest
Originally posted by steveholt951
Since we don't know what "goals" Sidious had and since the inhabitants of Byss apparently lived out their lives fine, whether it was in a perpetual state of a valium induced high or not, it's not the same thing as getting the life sucked out of you, or destroying a planet and achieving immortality.

Byss and the Deep Core corroborates Book of Sith's claim that Sidious used the energy pool created by constantly leeching off Byss's inhabitants to perform "vile experiments" on "sentient life" to "increase his knowledge of the dark side." Sidious not leeching their life completely and simultaneously was actually very wise: by allowing the citizens to live and replenish what he took, he essentially had a perpetual battery to use for ongoing experiments until his death.

We know Sidious had already secured a means of functional immortality by way of clones and the essence transfer, so there's that. Not to mention that it's not as though Sidious had eight thousand Sith Lords on hand to aid him in any sort of ritual to replicate Vitiate's effort.

But if sheer speed of the attack is the standard for success, then Nihilus outstrips Vitiate and Sidious by far. He drained a world by uttering a word, did he not?

axel_jovan

axel_jovan
Originally posted by Nephthys
In a fair fight, yes. But with mind rape haxx on their side they can take it.
Somehow I doubt that Sidious and Plagueis, whose will is strong enough to challenge and win against the Force itself, will be haxxed....

On the other hand... speed blitz for FTW Happy Dance

steveholt951
Only if you decide to take that literally. I guess then, Revan is the heart of the force. And it's not really an apples to apples comparison because Nihilus' drain was an offensive force power that didn't really grant him anything. I believe he had to keep eating force users or he would die. What Vitiate did was a completely different scenario.

The_Tempest
Originally posted by steveholt951
Only if you decide to take that literally. I guess then, Revan is the heart of the force. And it's not really an apples to apples comparison because Nihilus' drain was an offensive force power that didn't really grant him anything. I believe he had to keep eating force users or he would die. What Vitiate did was a completely different scenario.

That's the context I mean to apply to the drains. Vitiate's ritual was certainly remarkable, as was Plagueis's mastery of midi-chlorians, but neither of them are really applicable as a weapon.

But I'd like to hear your thoughts on Nihilus. Anything that reduces Nephthys and my favorite ginger to tears is welcome.

Arhael
Originally posted by Nephthys
Lol.

He didn't 'mindhaxx' Starkiller, he slightly compelled him to kill Vader. Starkiller wasn't under his control and it was shattered as soon as Kota spoke. Luke he only 'mindcontrolled' after defeating and torturing him and its very ambiguous if thats actually what he did. I dunno about Kam, show the evidence.

And obviously Byss was over several years and through probably ritualistic means.
Funny how you lowball Sidious' mind domination despite Vitiate never demonstrating it at all. Strike team was his chance and he just knocked them unconscious with lightning. Sidious on the other hand just disarmed Luke and dominated him, while Luke was conscious.

In any case Vitiate won't be even able to invade Sidious' mind:

But there was a mental pattern the Emperor had taught her long ago, a pattern for those times when he'd wanted his instructions hidden even from Vader. If she could just clear her mind enough to get it in place—

Through the turmoil came a sudden jolt of pain. "Do not attempt to hide your thoughts from me, Mara Jade," C'baoth admonished her sharply. "You are mine now. It is not right for an apprentice to hide her thoughts from her master."

"So I'm already your apprentice, huh?" Mara growled, gritting her teeth against the pain and making another try at the pattern. This time, she made it. "I thought I had at least until I'd knelt at your feet."

"You mock my vision," C'baoth said, his voice darkly petulant. "But you shall kneel before me."

"Just like Skywalker will, right? Assuming he lives through this?"

"He will be mine," C'baoth agreed, quietly confident. "As will his sister and her children."

"And then together you'll heal the galaxy," Mara said, watching his face and listening to the turmoil in her mind. Yes; the barrier seemed to be keeping C'baoth back. Now if she could just hold on to that privacy a little longer . . .

This quote shows how Mara successfully used mental barrier against C'baot, who not only could mind dominate but completely restructure mentality and mind control like puppet. And this technique was learned from Palpatine.

The_Tempest
Originally posted by Arhael
Strike team was his chance and he just knocked them unconscious with lightning.

This must be emphasized, Neph. Their enslavement to Vitiate might very well have occurred while they were unconscious and unable to properly defend themselves against such psychic intrusions.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Arhael
Funny how you lowball Sidious' mind domination despite Vitiate never demonstrating it at all. Strike team was his chance and he just knocked them unconscious with lightning. Sidious on the other hand just disarmed Luke and dominated him, while Luke was conscious.

In any case Vitiate won't be even able to invade Sidious' mind:

But there was a mental pattern the Emperor had taught her long ago, a pattern for those times when he'd wanted his instructions hidden even from Vader. If she could just clear her mind enough to get it in place—

Through the turmoil came a sudden jolt of pain. "Do not attempt to hide your thoughts from me, Mara Jade," C'baoth admonished her sharply. "You are mine now. It is not right for an apprentice to hide her thoughts from her master."

"So I'm already your apprentice, huh?" Mara growled, gritting her teeth against the pain and making another try at the pattern. This time, she made it. "I thought I had at least until I'd knelt at your feet."

"You mock my vision," C'baoth said, his voice darkly petulant. "But you shall kneel before me."

"Just like Skywalker will, right? Assuming he lives through this?"

"He will be mine," C'baoth agreed, quietly confident. "As will his sister and her children."

"And then together you'll heal the galaxy," Mara said, watching his face and listening to the turmoil in her mind. Yes; the barrier seemed to be keeping C'baoth back. Now if she could just hold on to that privacy a little longer . . .

This quote shows how Mara successfully used mental barrier against C'baot, who not only could mind dominate but completely restructure mentality and mind control like puppet. And this technique was learned from Palpatine.
It is funny that how you have forgotten this:

The Emperor is more then a man - he is the living embodiment of the dark side. Armed with incalculable powers of corruption, the Emperor easily defeats the Knight, Master Braga, and their fellow Jedi, twisting them all to the dark side. (Star Wars The Old Republic Encyclopedia)

S_W_LeGenD

CountDooku22
Gotta go with Sidious' team.

Arhael
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
It is funny that how you have forgotten this:

The Emperor is more then a man - he is the living embodiment of the dark side. Armed with incalculable powers of corruption, the Emperor easily defeats the Knight, Master Braga, and their fellow Jedi, twisting them all to the dark side. (Star Wars The Old Republic Encyclopedia)
It's funny that you say I have forgotten this, when in fact I never read this.

In any case it does not contradict what I said.

The_Tempest
Originally posted by Arhael
It's funny that you say I have forgotten this, when in fact I never read this.

In any case it does not contradict what I said.

It's not like Sidious is lacking for grandiose descriptions.

/sarcasm

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Arhael
It's funny that you say I have forgotten this, when in fact I never read this.
It is funny that I have provided this information in another debate.

Originally posted by Arhael
In any case it does not contradict what I said.
Read it carefully. It doesn't implies what you are suggesting.

The Emperor is more then a man - he is the living embodiment of the dark side. Armed with incalculable powers of corruption, the Emperor easily defeats the Knight, Master Braga, and their fellow Jedi, twisting them all to the dark side. (Star Wars The Old Republic Encyclopedia)

Their is no indication that the Emperor broke these Jedi after the fight; he did so during the fight. Yes, he pointed this out after the fight. The fight was scripted in this manner to make the audience/players understand that what Vitiate have done to these Jedi.

Also, Vitiate broke both Revan and Malak simultaneously with a fraction of his power. While both Jedi were on the precipice of the dark side when they met him, Vitiate didn't had to exert to break them either. He can legitimately break powerful individuals.

Mizukage Yoda
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Byss inhabitants were already loyal to Sidious.


It isn't.

Vitiate has only mind ****ed Revan and Malak who were already falling to the Dark Side, and Tol Braga. None of these people are on the level of Sidious, Plaeguis or even Dooku.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Vitiate has only mind ****ed Revan and Malak who were already falling to the Dark Side
With a fraction of his power as pointed out earlier.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
None of these people are on the level of Sidious, Plaeguis or even Dooku.
This is short-sighted assessment. Revan understood the Force in ways that few individuals in the whole mythos did. This is why he was such a potent threat to even the greatest of the dark side practitioners.

Also, Dooku isn't such a big deal as you make him out to be. The guy has realistic limitations; he once got captured by some pirates.

Vitiate have demonstrated the capability to break multiple powerful individuals simultaneously on different occasions. It is futile excercise to argue over this. Sidious, Plagueis and Dooku lack in experience in this aspect.

Nephthys

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD


Also, Dooku isn't such a big deal as you make him out to be. The guy has realistic limitations; he once got captured by some pirates.


mad mad mad

Stop bringing that up SWL.

That wasn't a limitation of Dooku's. That was a limitation that Higher Canon has imposed on All Jedi and Sith.

Nephthys
You just know Vitiate would have owned those pirates. wink

The_Tempest
lol

I'm going to **** you so hard in the *** today. excellent

Nephthys
I'll break out the magnifying glass so I can actually tell.

The_Tempest
Originally posted by Nephthys
I'll break out the magnifying glass so I can actually tell.

Still seeking confirmation of your sex?

Nephthys
That doesn't make any sense loser.

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/masonry/000/189/407/vriska_serket_by_bluebelle01-d2yea4k.png

The_Tempest
You would use the magnifying glass to inspect your crotch for the presence of male genitalia.

Nephthys
But why would I need to do that in preparation for anal sex?

The_Tempest
Reciprocation, of course, unless you're not a courteous lover.

Nephthys
I am not. excellent

The_Tempest
We'll have to work on that.

axel_jovan

axel_jovan
Originally posted by Arhael
Funny how you lowball Sidious' mind domination despite Vitiate never demonstrating it at all. Strike team was his chance and he just knocked them unconscious with lightning. Sidious on the other hand just disarmed Luke and dominated him, while Luke was conscious.

In any case Vitiate won't be even able to invade Sidious' mind:
Missed that at first...very good point thumb up

So even Vitiate's mind domination powers are in question now...
I am disappointed, many posters hold Vitiate in such high esteem

The_Tempest
And what's gonna happen when Sidious suggests Vitiate go f**k himself? uhuh







http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view/120654/grinch-smile-o.gif



The same text also confirms that Vitiate has to expend substantial energy and focus in attempting to conquer Revan's will. Plenty of time for Sidious to utterly annihilate him.





Scourge is a walking, talking, lightsaber-equipped vagina. Henceforth, he shall be known as Darth Vaginus.

Revan didn't curl into the fetal position when Vitiate tried to dominate his mind. I see no reason to think Sidious will mimic Scourge's pansy-ass response. And that's if Vitiate even manages to breach the Emperor's "impenetrable" psychic walls.



Kindly direct me to where that was said.

S_W_LeGenD

axel_jovan

Arhael
Nice to see you taking over as I was too lazy to respond to him. big grin

Also, on breaking free from mind domination JK states:
"The Emperor overpowered us. Master braga, the others... we all fell. After that, nothing".

JK doesn't remember the events that occurred, while he was under influence. The fact that he remembers how they got overpowered and fell proves that mind domination did not occur until after they got defeated.

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.