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Fingolfin stands before the gates of Angband challenging Morgoth to a dual. The gates open wide, but instead of Morogth, Grom comes forth. And there, before the hosts of the Noldor and Morgoth, the two battle.

Who takes it?

Edit: Forgot to change the title. It's Grom vs Fingolfin not Garrosh....

How strong and durable is Grom again?

Because Fingolfin was capable of fighting and taking hits from a walking hill that could smash craters so deep lava sprayed from them.

Don't know Fingolfin but Grom was able to kill Mannaroth who's a pit lord

http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Fingolfin

Keeping things simple, he did reasonably well against a dude that could one-shot Mannoroth.

Critical strike

Fingolfin embarrassed Morgoth. Mannoroth would eviscerate Fingolfin as would Grom.

Fingolfin would crush Mannoroth and Grom at the same time, lol.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Fingolfin would crush Mannoroth and Grom at the same time, lol.

If by that you mean Fingolfin would go down in 3 seconds flat, then yeah.

You have no evidence to support that claim.

Grom killed Cenarius.

Fingolfin would have crushed Cenarius. Easily.

He fought Morgoth, who is mightier than any mere demigod.

Grom killed Cenarius when he was hopped up on Mannaroths blood

Originally posted by NemeBro
Fingolfin would crush Mannoroth and Grom at the same time, lol.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Fingolfin would have crushed Cenarius. Easily.

He fought Morgoth, who is mightier than any mere demigod.

You'll need to support that claim.

And if this happens in the forest this Fingoldfish dude is screwed. I remember Cenarius summoning treants over all the place like a crazy mofo and then healing all his allies like they had Wolverine's healing factor. The range on his abilities was insane too, he didn't even need to be there.

Also, you need chaos damage to hurt Cenarius' divine armor, Fingoldfish can't even land a blow.

Also, Cenarius could get wisps to detonate like Malfurion did to kill Archimonde.

Look at this guy's stats, easily one of the strongest in WC.

http://image.gamespotcdn.net/gamespot/images/2003/all/gameguides/warcraft3/gg_790screen053.jpg

Morgoth's physical blows pierced the crust of the planet down to the mantle.

Fingolfin withstood those blows, and parried them.

He crushes Cenarius, Mannoroth, and Grom together, like insects. We're talking a character with physical might sufficient to easily destroy countries.

Lol

Fingolfin would crush Cenarius in combat.

His weaker niece Galadrial was capable of levelling castles by herself. He wields an enchanted sword. When he got angry, Morgoth's entire army, numbering in the hundreds of thousands, ran from him in fear. He parried strikes from Morgoth, who could create craters deep enough that lava spewed out, and was capable of harming him with his strikes. It took several blows from Morgoth to even put Fingolfin down, and even then, Fingolfin still withstood what was described as the weight of a hill on his chest long enough to cut off Morgoth's foot.

Fingolfin would murder Cenarius, and would beat Grom even easier.

Besides, Grom had an army of Orcs at his back when he took Cenarius on.

Originally posted by FinalAnswer


His weaker niece Galadrial was capable of levelling castles by herself.

Yawn

I3BxvHhz4XQ

That guy would literally step on all of them.

This whole "hitting the ground so hard lava spews out" is just a trope. I think a character strong enough to do that would have to pierce at least, what, thousands of kilometers of Earth's crust? Morgoth hitting the ground that hard would have caused a veritable extinction event.

Originally posted by FinalAnswer

Fingolfin would crush Cenarius in combat.

His weaker niece Galadrial was capable of levelling castles by herself. He wields an enchanted sword. When he got angry, Morgoth's entire army, numbering in the hundreds of thousands, ran from him in fear. He parried strikes from Morgoth, who could create craters deep enough that lava spewed out, and was capable of harming him with his strikes. It took several blows from Morgoth to even put Fingolfin down, and even then, Fingolfin still withstood what was described as the weight of a hill on his chest long enough to cut off Morgoth's foot.

Fingolfin would murder Cenarius, and would beat Grom even easier.

Besides, Grom had an army of Orcs at his back when he took Cenarius on.

Maybe. Cenarius is a bit of a pussy.

So? Thrall could level whole keeps as well and an all-in, charged attack from him merely made a tiny scratch on Mannoroth's wing. Mannoroth would steamroll Galadriel. Oh, and did she need her Ring to level castles?

Enchanted sword? Oh, big ****ing deal.

Of course they ran. Evil in Tolkien's work is usually depicted as petty and craven(especially when faced with awesome righteousness). They could have zerged Finglofin, but chose to piss off instead.

All Grom needs is to land a good hit on Fingolfin and it's GG. Not saying that he would necessarily get that hit in, of course, but if he does, elf boy is toast.

30-50.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
30-50.

Oh, but where exactly does lava show up? Because I think that the upper layers of Earth's Mantle are solid?

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
This whole "hitting the ground so hard lava spews out" is just a trope. I think a character strong enough to do that would have to pierce at least, what, thousands of kilometers of Earth's crust? Morgoth hitting the ground that hard would have caused a veritable extinction event.



Maybe. Cenarius is a bit of a pussy.

So? Thrall could level whole keeps as well and an all-in, charged attack from him merely made a tiny scratch on Mannoroth's wing. Mannoroth would steamroll Galadriel. Oh, and did she need her Ring to level castles?

Enchanted sword? Oh, big ****ing deal.

Of course they ran. Evil in Tolkien's work is usually depicted as petty and craven(especially when faced with awesome righteousness). They could have zerged Finglofin, but chose to piss off instead.

All Grom needs is to land a good hit on Fingolfin and it's GG. Not saying that he would necessarily get that hit in, of course, but if he does, elf boy is toast.

Well, along with what Scream said, the area Fingolfin fought in, Thangorodrim, was volcanically active, so I dunno. Even aside from that, he's already fighting and parrying strikes from a giant walking hill.

Could he do it with pure strength? Because that's how Galadriel levelled Dol Guldur. I don't know if Nenya boosts her physical strength, but she's from the First Age and a high-ranking member of the House of Finarfin, and Elves from that time period do crazy stuff.

It's not that they were petty, it's just that Fingolfin was just that pissed off.

Grom lacks the strength to even harm Fingolfin. Meanwhile, Fingolfin needs but hit Grom once and he's a stain on the ground.

Originally posted by Placidity
Yawn

I3BxvHhz4XQ

That guy would literally step on all of them.

And Morgoth in his prime would literally crush Archimonde to death with one hand. Don't know why you're bringing him up though.

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
Well, along with what Scream said, the area Fingolfin fought in, Thangorodrim, was volcanically active, so I dunno. Even aside from that, he's already fighting and parrying strikes from a giant walking hill.

Could he do it with pure strength? Because that's how Galadriel levelled Dol Guldur. I don't know if Nenya boosts her physical strength, but she's from the First Age and a high-ranking member of the House of Finarfin, and Elves from that time period do crazy stuff.

It's not that they were petty, it's just that Fingolfin was just that pissed off.

Grom lacks the strength to even harm Fingolfin. Meanwhile, Fingolfin needs but hit Grom once and he's a stain on the ground.



And Morgoth in his prime would literally crush Archimonde to death with one hand. Don't know why you're bringing him up though.

Well, then for all we know the lava could have been just barely below the ground. It would certainly make much more sense that way.

Pure strength may not exactly be Thrall's forte, but he could probably smash things with Doomhammer until they fall over. He leveled a castle with magic as Thrall is an extraordinarily powerful shaman, but even he barely managed to make a paper cut on Mannoroth's wing(and Nature magic, something that shamans like Thrall do, is perhaps the greatest weakness of Demons in the Warcraft universe).

Yeah, I bet Fingolfin was pissed, but the main thing is that the army he faced were a bunch of cowards. Like master, like servants.

If Grom lands the same strike on Fingolfin that killed Mannoroth, elf boy would suddenly be two elf boys.

Morgoth in his prime is called Melkor. Too bad he squandered his power on bullshit.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Pure strength may not exactly be Thrall's forte, but he could probably smash things with Doomhammer until they fall over. He leveled a castle with magic as Thrall is an extraordinarily powerful shaman, but even he barely managed to make a paper cut on Mannoroth's wing(and Nature magic, something that shamans like Thrall do, is perhaps the greatest weakness of Demons in the Warcraft universe).


If Grom lands the same strike on Fingolfin that killed Mannoroth, elf boy would suddenly be two elf boys.

Morgoth in his prime is called Melkor. Too bad he squandered his power on bullshit.

Which is funny, since Thrall actually hurt Archimonde in Warcraft 3. All he did was throw his hammer at Mannoroth though, nothing extraordinary.

Prove Mannoroth is as durable as Fingolfin please.

He spent his power on bending everything, every single molecule in existence slightly to his will, thereby creating the concept of evil within Arda. Hardly what I'd call bullshit. sneer

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
Which is funny, since Thrall actually hurt Archimonde in Warcraft 3. All he did was throw his hammer at Mannoroth though, nothing extraordinary.

Prove Mannoroth is as durable as Fingolfin please.

He spent his power on bending everything, every single molecule in existence slightly to his will, thereby creating the concept of evil within Arda. Hardly what I'd call bullshit. sneer

He put all of his anger and power into that hammer. 'Hurt' is a bit of a relative term as Archimonde just chuckled at the whole thing and wasn't injured in the slightest.

Lesser Pit Lords have withstood magical attacks from fully grown Blue Dragons and Mannoroth laughed off an all-out attack from the most powerful mortal Shaman(an attack, which, as a Demon, Mannoroth should have been particularly susceptible to). The fact that Grom managed to kill Mannoroth in a single blow like that is very PISy, but hey, that's fiction for you.

All for naught. Basically bullshit.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
He put all of his anger and power into that hammer. 'Hurt' is a bit of a relative term as Archimonde just chuckled at the whole thing and wasn't injured in the slightest.

Lesser Pit Lords have withstood magical attacks from fully grown Blue Dragons and Mannoroth laughed off an all-out attack from the most powerful mortal Shaman(an attack, which, as a Demon, Mannoroth should have been particularly susceptible to). The fact that Grom managed to kill Mannoroth in a single blow like that is very PISy, but hey, that's fiction for you.

All for naught. Basically bullshit.

Nope, Archimonde was explicitly surprised by Thrall's power and how it actually hurt him. Of course, it'd be like that of a mosquito bite, but hey. Also, how exactly did Thrall bust a castle?

Don't know what that means. What have Blue Dragons done?

Nah, Morgoth forever corrupted Arda, ensuring he accomplished one of his goals, to destroy the works of his father and siblings.

Fingolfin by feats is more powerful than a Balrog or Gandalf, and when one fought the latter, a mountain was leveled by their fight.

Fingolfin fought and parried blows from a being more powerful than any Balrog, he crushes Grom.

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
Nope, Archimonde was explicitly surprised by Thrall's power and how it actually hurt him. Of course, it'd be like that of a mosquito bite, but hey. Also, how exactly did Thrall bust a castle?

Don't know what that means. What have Blue Dragons done?

Nah, Morgoth forever corrupted Arda, ensuring he accomplished one of his goals, to destroy the works of his father and siblings.

Yeah, Archimonde was surprised, but that's about it. I think he made the Earth itself consume and shatter the whole place. Though Thrall has done some far crazier stuff since.

They can do a lot. Suffice it to say that making the ground shatter would be nothing more than a parlor trick to a fully grown Blue Dragon.

Arda is doing just fine after they kicked out Sauron for good.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Fingolfin by feats is more powerful than a Balrog or Gandalf, and when one fought the latter, a mountain was leveled by their fight.

Fingolfin fought and parried blows from a being more powerful than any Balrog, he crushes Grom.

I've been reading and it only says that the Balrog broke the mountain-side as he fell down. And apparently some tower was shattered too, but that's not exactly mountain-busting material.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Yeah, Archimonde was surprised, but that's about it. I think he made the Earth itself consume and shatter the whole place. Though Thrall has done some far crazier stuff since.

They can do a lot. Suffice it to say that making the ground shatter would be nothing more than a parlor trick to a fully grown Blue Dragon.

Arda is doing just fine after they kicked out Sauron for good.

So he utilized the environment with his magic. That doesn't necessarily mean Thrall's attack on Mannoroth was castle-busting.

Nah, every negative act that happens is a result of Morgoth's omnipresent influence. He literally created the concept of "bad".

Also, how's Grom's durability? Taking his PIS attack against Mannoroth into account, he has strength, but Fingolfin has both strength and toughness.

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
So he utilized the environment with his magic. That doesn't necessarily mean Thrall's attack on Mannoroth was castle-busting.

Nah, every negative act that happens is a result of Morgoth's omnipresent influence. He literally created the concept of "bad".

Also, how's Grom's durability? Taking his PIS attack against Mannoroth into account, he has strength, but Fingolfin has both strength and toughness.

Not necessarily, no, but like I've said, lesser Pit Lords can shrug off attacks from beings that can most definitely bust castles in a pinch.

What a naughty bastard, that Morgoth.

Probably not very good. If Fingolfin guts him, it's over.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
I've been reading and it only says that the Balrog broke the mountain-side as he fell down. And apparently some tower was shattered too, but that's not exactly mountain-busting material. Yes, he destroyed a mountain. One side of it was leveled, making it no longer a mountain, but rather a cliff.

What is your point?

Originally posted by NemeBro
Yes, he destroyed a mountain. One side of it was leveled, making it no longer a mountain, but rather a cliff.

What is your point?

The point is that's very different from what I imagine mountain-busting is. Falling down and destroying a mountain-side(how big was it? How big was the mountain itself?) is different from being able to destroy an actual mountain. Hell, they didn't even destroy the mountain-side by fighting, it was destroyed by Balrog falling down. Must have been one hell of a fatass.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
The point is that's very different from what I imagine mountain-busting is. I don't care what you imagine.

He tossed the Balrog with his might, and destroyed the mountain.

Originally posted by NemeBro
I don't care what you imagine.

He tossed the Balrog with his might, and destroyed the mountain.

The Balrog fell down and destroyed what was probably a small portion of the actual mountain with its fat ass.

The side of the mountain.

Aka half.

Cry moar, Fingolfin wins.

Originally posted by FinalAnswer

And Morgoth in his prime would literally crush Archimonde to death with one hand.

Literally with one hand? You know Archimonde is freaking gigantic right? He'd squash him with his boot.

Literally with his boot? You know that Morgoth in his prime was described as being as large as a mountain with his head going above the clouds right? He'd squash him with his finger.

Originally posted by NemeBro
The side of the mountain.

Aka half.

Cry moar, Fingolfin wins.

Side of the mountain could be half or could be less than half. We don't know the shape or the size of the mountain. Maybe it was already damaged from the fighting and the Balrog falling down on it was enough to collapse it.

Well yeah, he probably does win as he has millennia of combat experience and Grom doesn't have the durability.

Originally posted by Placidity
Literally with one hand? You know Archimonde is freaking gigantic right? He'd squash him with his boot.

That's when he was still Melkor, I believe. He had Godlike power back then.

Yes. But so what? It's still the same character. Plus the fact that FA specifically said "Morogth in his prime" tends to indicate he is referring to Melkor.

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
Could he do it with pure strength? Because that's how Galadriel levelled Dol Guldur. I don't know if Nenya boosts her physical strength, but she's from the First Age and a high-ranking member of the House of Finarfin, and Elves from that time period do crazy stuff.

Eh, pretty certain Galadriel used magic to destroy Dol Goldur. The wording Tolkien uses in that sequence parallels the wording he uses when Luthien magically destroys Tol-in-Gaurhoth.

Originally posted by Placidity
Literally with one hand? You know Archimonde is freaking gigantic right? He'd squash him with his boot. Morgoth/Melkor at the peak of his power was a walking mountain whose feet could stand on the ocean floor, and his head would still pierce the clouds, lol.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Morgoth/Melkor at the peak of his power was a walking mountain whose feet could stand on the ocean floor, and his head would still pierce the clouds, lol.

And was it Morgoth or Melkor that Fingoldfish fought and being bragged about?

They are the same being! So yes, Fingolfin did fight Melkor, just not in his prime.

Originally posted by Placidity
And was it Morgoth or Melkor that Fingoldfish fought and being bragged about?

He fought Morgoth. Even though Morgoth and Melkor is the same person, Morgoth is but a shadow of who he was when he was still called Melkor. This is why this distinction between the two names is usually made.

Lol, nobody short of Eru could stand up to Morgoth at his most powerful.

Anyways, I do not know much about Grom, but Fingolfin is quite difficult to beat.

Caradhras was the largest mountain in Middle Earth, IIRC. The clouds were WAY below its peak. It was at least Mount Everest size, if not larger.
So that balrog crushing the side? Thats a big area.

Can anyone in LOTR beat Sargeras or the Titans? Or maybe the Old Gods like C'thun or Yogg Saron?

Originally posted by Chozone
Can anyone in LOTR beat Sargeras or the Titans? Or maybe the Old Gods like C'thun or Yogg Saron?

LotR has a being who's basically God, so yes.

Melkor of course would also easily kill them all.

Fingolfin could likely take on most of the Titans, with his physical might that destroys continents.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Melkor of course would also easily kill them all.

Fingolfin could likely take on most of the Titans, with his physical might that destroys continents.

Right, right...

Don't forget that Earendil wears Venus on his crown. Wouldn't want to get headbutt by that guy...biscuits

Earendil takes down dragons that can crush massive mountain ranges with their weight, and slay cosmic horrors capable of eating light and exhaling void.

He'd wreck Sargeras.

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
Earendil takes down dragons that can crush massive mountain fortresses with their weight, and slay cosmic horrors capable of eating light and exhaling void.

He'd wreck Sargeras. Fixed it

Crushing Utumno was an indication of just how big this guy was.

Glaurung, the Father of Dragons, had to slowly pull his bulk over a gorge like a worm (wyrm)

While I do disagree with NemeBro about the particulars of Fingolfin's strength (I think he dodged the hammer more often. Still a speed feat)
He is quite strong, being one of the more powerful elves at the time.

Melkor and the Valar had an argument once.... It sank the continent of Beleriand. Most call it the War of Wrath, but it was really jsut an argument

Originally posted by Pwned
Fixed it

Crushing Utumno was an indication of just how big this guy

Utumno was Morgoth's first fortress from before the First Age. Ancalagon shattered Thangorodrim, the mountain range consisting of three volcanoes (Apparently 30000 feet high. For reference, Everest is 25000 feet) that sheltered Angbad.

Where does 30000 come from? But yeah, they are the biggest mountains in ME and therefore should be taller than Everist. But I don't think they necessarily have to have a higher elevation.

Originally posted by Pwned
Melkor and the Valar had an argument once.... It sank the continent of Beleriand. Most call it the War of Wrath, but it was really jsut an argument

Eh? It was a full on war.

Originally posted by ares834
Where does 30000 come from?

Wiki, comes from a scaled drawing of Tolkien's.

And got it wrong, was 35000 feet.

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
Earendil takes down dragons that can crush massive mountain ranges with their weight, and slay cosmic horrors capable of eating light and exhaling void.

He'd wreck Sargeras.

He'd better bring his A game if he wants to even scratch Sargeras. That dragon he slew wouldn't even be a blip on the radar next to Sargeras.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
The point is that's very different from what I imagine mountain-busting is. Falling down and destroying a mountain-side(how big was it? How big was the mountain itself?) is different from being able to destroy an actual mountain. Hell, they didn't even destroy the mountain-side by fighting, it was destroyed by Balrog falling down. Must have been one hell of a fatass.

It was the mountain under which Moria was built, wasn't it? I'm not sure what range that is or its scale from others on Middle Earth.

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
Utumno was Morgoth's first fortress from before the First Age. Ancalagon shattered Thangorodrim, the mountain range consisting of three volcanoes (Apparently 30000 feet high. For reference, Everest is 25000 feet) that sheltered Angbad. Eh, it's been a while since I gave the Silmarillion a read-through.

Jesus, it's like I'm reading Star Wars EU again. So overpowered and outside of the main series' power levels.

It actually was mentioned in the Appendices that people int he First Age were much more powerful. This was due to the fact that the Sundering of the World had not yet occured, and Aman was still accessible quite easily. Not to mention the Elves actually came from Aman (well, returned I should say)

A couple Elves in Rivendell were near this level of power (Glorfindel was able to fight a Balrog solo)
Fingolfin, however, was also a King of the Noldor. That is why he gets to be more powerful. However, it is not in the same sense as the EU, so don't worry

Originally posted by Nephthys
Jesus, it's like I'm reading Star Wars EU again. So overpowered and outside of the main series' power levels.

The Third Age that the LotR takes place in is pretty much the twilight years of Middle Earth. The Elves are fading away, the Valar no longer interfere with the affairs of mortals, Men never recovered from the fall of Numenor, ect.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Jesus, it's like I'm reading Star Wars EU again. So overpowered and outside of the main series' power levels.

TBH, there is quite abit over-blowing in this thread.

But yeah, First Age characters are in general way beyond the level of Third Age characters.

Heheheh... Personally, I am a Turin fan. Apart from the incestuousness, of course ;p

Originally posted by Pwned
Heheheh... Personally, I am a Turin fan. Apart from the incestuousness, of course ;p

The incest is the best part.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Jesus, it's like I'm reading Star Wars EU again. So overpowered and outside of the main series' power levels.

Gandalf is a mountain buster in the books.

Get bent.