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*EDIT* It's supposed to say Protege was the child-like ruler...

Stan Lee is #1 http://images.killermovies.com/forums/customsmilies/g_serious.gif

lol Q above the LT

@Damborgson

I put The "Supreme" Being (Mike Carlin) above him because it was a little more definite than Stan Lee. Mr. Mxyzptlk saw Mike after he died, signifying that he is at least high up there, while Stan Lee's placement that high is pretty questionable by itself since we never even see him.

@Jynocidus

Since The Living Tribunal and Q have basically the same abilities (reality-warping, massive destruction, omni-everything, etc.) I put Q higher since he is the most powerful in his universe.

TOAA is awfully low?

A 'most powerful' list without Doom, Iron Fist, or Space Punisher? El.Oh.El.

@armedforbattle

He's low because the top four guys actually MAKE the comics that have TOAA in them, the Primal Monitor is so large that a multiverse is microscopic (so he's prolly pretty powerful), the two brothers are EMBODIMENTS of their respected multiverses (which has TOAA in it), and, finally, MoM and the Great Presence are both above because they're closer to the most powerful in their uni/multiverse AND they have more feats.

@Galan007

Dude, you gotta be kidding. None of those characters can even REALITY-WARP, let alone take on the likes of Thanos with the IG. C'mon, man, you know better.

@thread

I also see classic kmc Storm,
multiverse dome piece dropping Flash
and unbelievably Thanos ko-ing Squirrel Girl,
all missing. Not cool.

stoned

Where's 1/4 the power of a big bang Supes or the unstoppable FP Kuurth?

@Mr Master

You are kidding, right??? Lol

Originally posted by Super Dark Claw
@Mr Master

You are kidding, right??? Lol


It's a good list in terms of highlighting different characters,
but if you intended it to be in order,
it's Way off. (this is not an opinion)

I don't have time to get into it all,
but I can tell you right off the bat that TOAA
(is the representative avatars of the Writers/Artists of Marvel)

Therefore TOAA = Artist/Collaborator

@celeyhyga17

Neither of them are even close!!! They can't even reality-warp, let alone take a hit from any of these guys.

Originally posted by Galan007
A 'most powerful' list without Doom, Iron Fist, or Space Punisher? El.Oh.El.

Originally posted by Super Dark Claw
@Galan007

Dude, you gotta be kidding. None of those characters can even REALITY-WARP, let alone take on the likes of Thanos with the IG. C'mon, man, you know better. Do you even read comics?

Q isn't in the same ballpark as any of those characters by actual showings.

@Mindset

Yes, I have been for years. Why?

@Mr Master

Actually, please "get into it all," I'd like to hear it. Also, I understand that TOAA represents the writers & artists or is inspired by them, but that doesn't mean anything IN the comics. In the comics, the top four people actually write and draw what happens, so they are above TOAA because instead of "representing," they ARE.

@NemeBro

How is he not? Q is part of an all-powerful race that are omniscient, omnipresent, and nigh-omnipotent.

The Q are not all knowing, all present, and not even close to nigh omnipotent. They are extra-dimensional beings, which isn't a new thing when it comes to either Marvel or DC.

Originally posted by Super Dark Claw
@NemeBro

How is he not? Q is part of an all-powerful race that are omniscient, omnipresent, and nigh-omnipotent.
Go back to comicvine. Here we judge characters based on the actual feats of said characters, not mere hyperbole.

Based on his showings, Q would be lucky if he's even put in the same ballpark as Legion or Franklin Richards.

Also the top 5 on this list are pretty much the same thing, lol.

@The Merchant @TheGodKiller

I will admit that Q does not have many feats, but only his word. But if we base things only on feats, TOAA doesn't have very many, does he? Also, the first four are similar, but not the fifth.

TOAA created everything. That's a feat. Also they're merely extra-dimensional beings, that's people like Shuma Gorath and Kubik. Abstracts are beyond these guys.

Originally posted by Super Dark Claw
@The Merchant @TheGodKiller

I will admit that Q does not have many feats, but only his word. But if we base things only on feats, TOAA doesn't have very many, does he? Also, the first four are similar, but not the fifth.
Fail argument. TOAA does have feats, the feat of creating the Marvel omniverse, the feat of depowering the Infinity Gems, the feat of being well above the Living Tribunal in terms of power etc.

If I had a penny every time someone tried to use that argument to highball a relatively featless character into the big leagues, I'd be pretty rich.

Actually, The Artist, The Writer, and The Collaborator created everything, not TOAA. TOAA is just talked about. Also, almost all of these people are extrademensional!

Abstracts are the embodiment of concepts themselves, which in Marvel is portrayed being higher. Also, since ST is more based on real science, they are only 5th dimensional. Marvel goes all the way to the 16th, hell they even have a Beyond realm, lol.

But the Q are SUPPOSEDLY omniscient, omnipresent, and nigh-omnipotent, which is greater than most abstracts.Also, they're not 5th dimensional, the Q Continuum is an entirely seperate plane of existence.

A plane of existence is another dimension, usually higher than ours.

Originally posted by Super Dark Claw
But the Q are SUPPOSEDLY omniscient, omnipresent, and nigh-omnipotent, which is greater than most abstracts.Also, they're not 5th dimensional, the Q Continuum is an entirely seperate plane of existence.
The Q have never been described as omnipresent.

Any run of the mill universal reality warper from Marvel/DC can be described as omipotent/omniscient. It's no big deal when you come to characters on scales dealing with such levels of power.

Great. Odin and Uatu the Watcher have shaken separate planes of existance as mere side-effects of their conflict. The Q are barely skyfather level characters based on actual, tangible feats.

Well TOAA is the most powerful being in the Marvel Universe.
He is Stan Lee characterized.

lol fulcrum above the LT

The Primal Monitor is consisting of billions of Multiverses. He's smaller than the Omniverse, which the Presence created. Same with the Amalgam Brothers, except they're no bigger than two multiverses, consisting of two non-canon regions of the multiverse. As far as Yahweh/Elaine Belloc, that is one universe, shared between Vertigo and DC. Same with MOM, that's one Universe.

The Presence=One-Above-All>The Great Evil Beast=Thanos w/THOTU>The Primal Monitor>The Pre-retcon Beyond (thousands of times stronger than the Living Tribunal and thus that multiverse)>The Amalgam Brothers>The Living Tribunal=The Voice through the Spectre>Yahweh=Mother of Existence>Nemesis/IG>Eternity, Infinity, etc.>Cube Beings>Elder Gods (and beings like fp Galactus)>Skyfathers>Transherald>High Herald>Mid Herald>Low Herald>etc.

MARTIANS FROM MARS ATTACKS..........SHRINKS ALL THESE GUYS

So Full powered Galactus isnt even on the list perioud huh? Wow thats so sad.

Originally posted by ThereIsHope
MARTIANS FROM MARS ATTACKS..........SHRINKS ALL THESE GUYS

So Full powered Galactus isnt even on the list perioud huh? Wow thats so sad.

I'd put him right below Cube Beings.

Really? I've always though Galactus was around a Celestials level at normal levels, and Celestials>>Cube beings.

Originally posted by Super Dark Claw
@Jynocidus

Since The Living Tribunal and Q have basically the same abilities (reality-warping, massive destruction, omni-everything, etc.) I put Q higher since he is the most powerful in his universe.

As i have said before i havent seen anything a Q can do surpass a skyfather level being.

Originally posted by The Merchant
Really? I've always though Galactus was around a Celestials level at normal levels, and Celestials>>Cube beings.

Half-a-Cube beings like the Beyonder could make quick work of him....Celestials didn't make my list, they would be what I consider Cube Beings, that cardinal thing is completely false, as there are also infinite even numbers, and then another infinite odd numbers, etc. I doubt each Celestial contains more than one Universe, which is considered an infinite or a "whole" cube, because of some pre-crisis statement. PIS is all. Galactus' energy obviously doesn't equate to a cube or he wouldn't need to replenish it by consuming worlds. He's DC's equivalent to the Oracle at best.

Originally posted by The Merchant
Really? I've always though Galactus was around a Celestials level at normal levels, and Celestials>>Cube beings.
Galactus fluctuates a lot.
When he is malnourished he can get his armor cracked by a high herald (beta ray),
But yet, Odin couldnt hurt him (can't remember what levels he was at then)
when he just absorbed 4 planets he will go and fight multiple celestial (who were capable of melting the Destroyer)

So Big G really depends on how much he absorbed

truthfully if you have all of these fake supreme beings then galactus can be on this list.

But at the same time, malnourished Big G destroyed the annihilation wave.

@The Merchant
And that's why they are extradimensional, just not 5th dimensional.

@TheGodKiller
You make good points, but I still disagree, so let's just agree to disagree.

@armedforbattle
As I said to Mr Master, he may REPRESENT Stan, but he is not. The Collaborator, The Artist, and The Writer made him. They're more powerful.

@Jynocidus
The Fulcrum has been said to be all-powerful and all-knowing, but it's true that he has no feats. He might just be an incarnation of TOAA.

@Dolos
The Primal Monitor IS the DC Omniverse. The Presence only created the multiverse. The Amalgam Brothers are all of the power of their multiverse, so the Marvel Bro has TOAA plus everything and everyone else, same with DC bro. Yes, that's why they're a bit lower, but their still powerful because they rule overan entire universe. You're list is interesting, but I disagree with a lot of it.

@ThereIsHope
Dolos is right, Galactus is rather low compared to the people like this list. He can't compete with Thanos with IG even.

@zeel
Yeah, most of his rep is based on he and other Q's just SAYING that they're powerful.

"Q, a race of all powerful beingS"

you'll all learn one day.

Originally posted by armedforbattle
So Big G really depends on how much he absorbed

And very much also in the last couple of years who is writing him.

That list is all over the place.

Originally posted by Super Dark Claw

As I said to Mr Master, he may REPRESENT Stan, but he is not.

The Collaborator, The Artist, and The Writer made him.

They're more powerful.
What you replied to Mr Master was so outlandish that it was ignored.

My friend, no offense, but you don't know what you're talking about.

We don't pin Real World Human beings against ink & paper,
that's some truly dumb shit

Last time, ... withIN Marvel Comic books,
TOAA is the representative avatars of the WriterS/ArtistS of any given story.

Simple. Let me know if I have to shower this page with unquestionable On Panel - handbook corroborated proof.

Most members Know this fact already and seen the scans many times,
that's why I'm holding back,
but this intense ignorance may need a visual effect.
Originally posted by Super Dark Claw

The Primal Monitor IS the DC Omniverse.
The Presence only created the multiverse.
The Amalgam Brothers are all of the power of their multiverse,

so the Marvel Bro has TOAA plus everything and everyone else, same with DC bro.

facepalm

Oh, lord ... I'll be back with the scans.

Originally posted by Badabing
You forgot Batgod, Hulk, Guy Gardner and Kyle Rayner. sneer I'll allow Kyle to be on my most powerful list, but the others? Phuck no.

Whadda fanboy.

1. Squirrel Girl
2. Everyone Else

Originally posted by Utrigita
And very much also in the last couple of years who is writing him.

This is phucking stupid

...Wall of text... Yay...

Please, sweet God, no more!

Originally posted by psycho gundam
This is phucking stupid

@Batman-Prime
Thanks, and that's a good point.

@Mr Master
I am not comparing real people to characters, The Artist and the others are characters. Again, just because he represents the actual artists and writers, does not mean that he has the power of them. The Artist and Writer in the books ARE the writers and artists. They created TOAA. Lastly, please come back with the scans.

@psycho gundam
What's stupid?

@Horrificus
No more of what!?

@Oliver North
What is stupid?

Originally posted by Super Dark Claw


@Horrificus
No more of what!? These threads are impossible to argue in any sane manner.

The "Kobayashi Maru" of comic book topics. (That was for all of you disappointed Q fans.) Too many claims of omnipotence, inconsistent descriptions of metaphysical structure and abstract hierarchy. Too many clashing statements by writers, narration and characters.

Finally, too many opinions with too many members attempting to "educate" the masses.

As long as they remain tongue-in-cheek, they are fun. As soon as they enter the realm of actual debate, I start looking for a hammer.

@Horrificus

Those are...actually some great points. I don't want to, but I have to agree with you. Haha. I just wanted to try to make my best attempt at finding the most powerful, I did some hefty research along with my background knowledge, so I was pretty proud and wanted to share it. I also wanted to see what others thought and maybe where I was wrong, but I also love arguing, as long as it's all nice.

I will take a shot at this


TOAA/Presences/ Great Evil Beast/MOM
Classic Beyonder/Primal Monitor/ HOTU Thanos
Classic Molecule Man/The Brothers
Lucifer/Michael/ Elaine Belloc/ Saint of Killers
LT/Spectre/Mxy/Sis neg/Synnar the Demiurge/ The Source/ Anti Monitor COIE
Captain Brtian w/Amulet of Power and Excalibur/HOM Scarlett Witch
Meryln w/Matrix crystals/Jamie Braddock/Mad Jim Jaspers w/Fury
Infinity Being Nemisis/ Evil Molecule Man/Havok w/Nexus of realities/
Multi Eternity/ Multi Death
The Makers/ The Infinties/ Abraxas

Originally posted by Mr Master
That list is all over the place.


What you replied to Mr Master was so outlandish that it was ignored.

My friend, no offense, but you don't know what you're talking about.

We don't pin Real World Human beings against ink & paper,
that's some truly dumb shit

Last time, ... withIN Marvel Comic books,
TOAA is the representative avatars of the WriterS/ArtistS of any given story.

Simple. Let me know if I have to shower this page with unquestionable On Panel - handbook corroborated proof.

Most members Know this fact already and seen the scans many times,
that's why I'm holding back,
but this intense ignorance may need a visual effect.

facepalm

Oh, lord ... I'll be back with the scans.

Originally posted by Super Dark Claw
@Horrificus

I did some hefty research along with my background knowledge, so I was pretty proud and wanted to share it.

I also wanted to see what others thought and maybe where I was wrong,


but I also love arguing, 3 Excellent Answers!

Originally posted by Super Dark Claw


@Mr Master

I am not comparing real people to characters, The Artist and the
others are characters. Again, just because he represents the actual
artists and writers, does not mean that he has the power of them. The
Artist and Writer in the books ARE the writers and artists. They
created TOAA. Lastly, please come back with the scans.

Nah. In Marvel, "God" or rather TOAA is what I already told ya:
(the representative avatars of the writerS/artistS)

Any who ...
"TOAA" look like Human beings, and are flawed like Human beings,
because well ... it's based off of real Human beings,
namely a broad fictional representation of the artists and writers of Marvel.

Just like Morrison's depiction of a true comic book God in the "Animal Man" arc


Anyway ...

====================================


"Meeting the Maker!"


(excerpt from the FF Ultimate Guide)



Let's see if this official information source from Marvel comics,
is stating what took place On Panel:

.................................................................................


++++ On Panel verification +++


1.

"The FF were amazed to find out,
he sketched out Reality in the same way as a comic-book artist:"







http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/15340325_TOAA_4.jpg




2.

"Redrawing Ben so that he once resembled the Thing:"

http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/15340330_TOAA_5.jpg




3.

"God then re-drew the FF's World, transporting them home:"



http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/15341102_TOAA_8.jpg


====================================


Not enough? ...

====================================


(excerpt from the Official Marvel Handbook - FF - bio)



... "Quest led them to the gates of Heaven itself ...
the CreatorS (artists/writers) allowed it,
even healing Reed's facial scars as a parting gift.


++++ On Panel verification +++


http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/15340337_TOAA_9.jpg

====================================


Have a good day. stoned

so TOAA really is the #1?

Really, none of those panels prove that The Artist and TOAA are the same being, it just shows that The Artist is pretty much God. But, if TOAA actually IS The Artist, The Writer, and The Collaborator, why would he just talk to himself? Honestly, I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one, since the books never directly state that TOAA is or is not any/all of these people.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
This is phucking stupid

LT should be somewhere in the top ten IMO

if not #2

Where is She-Hulk on this list? She should be directly under TOAA, if not above him since she can beat the crap out of him and force him to write all her opponents dead. She's clearly the most powerful ever.

Ok so you listed all the Gods First...wow thanks for that

Originally posted by Jynocidus
so TOAA really is the #1?

No^^.

@Mr Master

So, TOAA is not just one being, but a collective term referring to The Writer and The Artist? Then why do so many sources refer to TOAA as one being?

TOAA is #1 without questions well you can split the #1 and #2 for dc and marvel they ahve the same thing just called something different there is nothing more powerful then the artist of the comic book

This might be more interesting if the characters actually fought. Like H'el, or someone with the IG. If your putting someone like TOAA then they probably have never had a battle, if they did it might have been off panel.

So...Mr Master will never reply to me...

TOAA Stan Lee thing is dumb IMO. Does that mean Grant Morrison is DCs TOAA since he appeared in Animal Man and basically said and did the same thing?

That Animal Man thing was retconned

Originally posted by Super Dark Claw
So...Mr Master will never reply to me...
Why would he? He has posted his interpretation backed by reasons with scans for reference.

I don't necessarily agree with Mr Master, but all you're doing is grasping at straws. Neither DC's nor Marvel's cosmologies are well established and you could technically puncture any interpretation of either.

That said, your model makes the least sense, and on top of that you didn't represent it well rhetorically. In fact there's absolutely no evidence for your arguments in this thread, hence why no one bothers to take you seriously.