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Superman

VS

1) Hercules
2) Wonder-Man
3) Thor
4) Hulk
5) Hyperion

Man Of Steel or Men of MarveL?

Gets to 4, though Hulk should really be above Hyperion.

Clears it.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Gets to 4, though Hulk should really be above Hyperion.

A thinking or deinitely an angry Superman clears it easily.

Normal Supes clears it, just not as quickly.

Clears it

How is Superman going to beat Hulk in a contest where they stand their ground and trade punches?

1) Hercules - Superman.
2) Wonder-Man - Superman.
3) Thor - Superman or split.
4) Hulk - Hulk.
5) Hyperion - Superman or split.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
How is Superman going to beat Hulk in a contest where they stand their ground and trade punches?

1) Hercules - Superman.
2) Wonder-Man - Superman.
3) Thor - Superman or split.
4) Hulk - Hulk.
5) Hyperion - Superman or split.

Pretty much my assessment, although straight h2h, I don't think Thor has much of a chance. Hyperion should only gets this much credit due to his recent showing but in the broad spectrum of things Superman should handily take him 7-8/10

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
How is Superman going to beat Hulk in a contest where they stand their ground and trade punches?

1) Hercules - Superman.
2) Wonder-Man - Superman.
3) Thor - Superman or split.
4) Hulk - Hulk.
5) Hyperion - Superman or split.

easy, because base level supes is strong enough to KO base level Hulk before any amps. one not-held-back punch and it's done.

whats a base level hulk exactly?

If hulk is free to go world breaker instantly then Superman stops at 4.
Otherwise speed is the key for victory against hulk

Originally posted by 753
whats a base level hulk exactly? average levels. Around Hercules level or slightly below

Originally posted by 753
whats a base level hulk exactly?


Based on Indestructible Hulk issue 1, I'd say that he has certainly retained the ability to ramp up much faster than the Hulk of yesteryear.

"base level" Hulk is a misnomer. He starts off as a full high herald.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
How is Superman going to beat Hulk in a contest where they stand their ground and trade punches?

1) Hercules - Superman.
2) Wonder-Man - Superman.
3) Thor - Superman or split.
4) Hulk - Hulk.
5) Hyperion - Superman or split.
Almost this. Current Hype is still only hype. Other than his scuffle with mind-controlled Hulk, nothing suggests he can hang with the likes of Kal.. When he gets Thor's brawling credentials ure list is good. Provided if OP has current Hype btw..

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Almost this. Current Hype is still only hype. Other than his scuffle with mind-controlled Hulk, nothing suggests he can hang with the likes of Kal.. When he gets Thor's brawling credentials ure list is good. Provided if OP has current Hype btw..

This is indeed the galaxy pushing Hyperion.

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
This is indeed the galaxy pushing Hyperion.
And... Wut else u got for me?

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
And... Wut else u got for me?

He sat the Hulk down with a few punches and more importantly, Hyperion STRENOUSLY reprimanded Thor about his drinking!

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
How is Superman going to beat Hulk in a contest where they stand their ground and trade punches?

1) Hercules - Superman.
2) Wonder-Man - Superman.
3) Thor - Superman or split.
4) Hulk - Hulk.
5) Hyperion - Superman or split.
Like he did to merged hulk, I guess. Also lulz at thor splitting with superman in slugfest. He wouldn't win a single match. What did you say in Cap vs Batman thread? Superman wins 10/10, not always easy but he wins all.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Gets to 4, though Hulk should really be above Hyperion.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Like he did to merged hulk, I guess. Also lulz at thor splitting with superman in slugfest. He wouldn't win a single match. What did you say in Cap vs Batman thread? Superman wins 10/10, not always easy but he wins all.

This was during the era Hulk would revert to Banner if he got too angry, he couldn't go much further than his base as a result (Not a knock against Superman, during this era, his base was incredibly high). Superman still only won just barely, and he didn't limit himself to his fists only. It's been a while but I specifically remember heat vision being used.

Sure, why not, Superman 10/10 if that's what you want to hear.

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Superman

VS

1) Hercules
2) Wonder-Man
3) Thor
4) Hulk
5) Hyperion

Man Of Steel or Men of MarveL?

In a slugfest they trade blow fo blow, right? But is it 1 blow for 1 or are you allowed not only to hit as hard but also as fast as you can? I'm just asking because they all are quite close in Strength, Superman = Hulk >= Thor (atm) = Hyperion = Hercules > Wonderman.
Herc and Thor are more skilled but they can't use them in a slugfest (no dodging?), else they win.

With speed, Supes clears it with ease. Without he splits with Thor, Hulk and probably Hyperion.

Lol. Pr and Rage gave the most reasonable, non fan based argument here.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
This was during the era Hulk would revert to Banner if he got too angry, he couldn't go much further than his base as a result (Not a knock against Superman, during this era, his base was incredibly high). Superman still only won just barely, and he didn't limit himself to his fists only. It's been a while but I specifically remember heat vision being used.

Sure, why not, Superman 10/10 if that's what you want to hear.

This guy knows what he is talking about. This is the reason Hulk asked Jean to release his mentality (against Onslaught) because with this persona, he was unable to accomplish/amp to even pose a threat against Onslaught.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
In a slugfest they trade blow fo blow, right? But is it 1 blow for 1 or are you allowed not only to hit as hard but also as fast as you can? I'm just asking because they all are quite close in Strength, Superman = Hulk >= Thor (atm) = Hyperion = Hercules > Wonderman.
Herc and Thor are more skilled but they can't use them in a slugfest (no dodging?), else they win.

With speed, Supes clears it with ease. Without he splits with Thor, Hulk and probably Hyperion.

Is this what you think?

That Hulk is a green Superman who can't fly but heals instead?

Or that Thor is a superman with a hammer that can manipulate magic, energy, etc?

I mean that's okay, but then how would you reason that Thor is even close to Superman's equal if he has everything he has (minus some speed maybe) and can freaking do anything with his hammer? And same goes with Hulk. How much better than Superman is he if he's already as strong and durable, and only gets better and better?

As far as I know none of these guys are close to Superman physically. Thor could split even with him in durability maybe and after a while Hulk might split an even in strength?

If they trade 1 blow each in a slugfest then Superman would explode Hulk's brains out the back of his skull with the first punch. Thor and Herc might take quite a few punches but their return isn't nearly enough to wear down the MAN O' STEEEEEEEEEEEEL

Originally posted by curryman


As far as I know none of these guys are close to Superman physically. Thor could split even with him in durability maybe and after a while Hulk might split an even in strength?
......
If they trade 1 blow each in a slugfest then Superman would explode Hulk's brains out the back of his skull with the first punch. Thor and Herc might take quite a few punches but their return isn't nearly enough to wear down the MAN O' STEEEEEEEEEEEEL
This along with CGrundy's are the right answer.


Superman starts off way stronger than anyone on the field. Thor's only chance is his hammer and weakness exploitation but that's not allowed.

If superman plays around he still wins; if he is serious he makes it quick and painless.

Originally posted by curryman
Is this what you think?

That Hulk is a green Superman who can't fly but heals instead?

Or that Thor is a superman with a hammer that can manipulate magic, energy, etc?

I mean that's okay, but then how would you reason that Thor is even close to Superman's equal if he has everything he has (minus some speed maybe) and can freaking do anything with his hammer? And same goes with Hulk. How much better than Superman is he if he's already as strong and durable, and only gets better and better?

As far as I know none of these guys are close to Superman physically. Thor could split even with him in durability maybe and after a while Hulk might split an even in strength?

If they trade 1 blow each in a slugfest then Superman would explode Hulk's brains out the back of his skull with the first punch. Thor and Herc might take quite a few punches but their return isn't nearly enough to wear down the MAN O' STEEEEEEEEEEEEL

Hulk isn't stronger as Supes at first, I agree, but he will come to this level before he gets down, because of his HF. Superman has something Hulk doesn't, invulnerability and his HF isn't bad either. Except of this, Superman's strength is dynamic, he gets stronger if he needs to. He is holding back for a reason.

Thor is most likely as strong as Superman, his invunlerabilty isn't just on the same level. He is tough enough, though.

And yes, Supermans biggest advantage is his speed, take it away and they split with him. Thor might even win a majority because of Mjolnirs hits.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Hulk isn't stronger as Supes at first, I agree, but he will come to this level before he gets down, because of his HF. Superman has something Hulk doesn't, invulnerability and his HF isn't bad either. Except of this, Superman's strength is dynamic, he gets stronger if he needs to. He is holding back for a reason.

Thor is most likely as strong as Superman, his invunlerabilty isn't just on the same level. He is tough enough, though.

And yes, Supermans biggest advantage is his speed, take it away and they split with him. Thor might even win a majority because of Mjolnirs hits.

Who are you and what are you doing with Batman-Prime's account?

Originally posted by Diesldude
Who are you and what are you doing with Batman-Prime's account?

Oh damn today isn't the 1st April... my bad, Superman stomps, even with broken arms

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Hulk isn't stronger as Supes at first, I agree, but he will come to this level before he gets down, because of his HF. Superman has something Hulk doesn't, invulnerability and his HF isn't bad either. Except of this, Superman's strength is dynamic, he gets stronger if he needs to. He is holding back for a reason.

Thor is most likely as strong as Superman, his invunlerabilty isn't just on the same level. He is tough enough, though.

And yes, Supermans biggest advantage is his speed, take it away and they split with him. Thor might even win a majority because of Mjolnirs hits.

Lol...this guy.

Hulk shrugs off a blast capable of melting Adamantium.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14061797/IH-01-16.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14061805/IH-01-18.jpg.html

His strength, INCALCULABLE.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14061808/IH-01-19.jpg.html

This doesnt include him ripping through armor that was built to withstand ANY pressure in space. Read Batman Prime, just pick up one and a nearby store.

I really don't want to have to close this one too...

Please tell me you are not blaming me for this one as well? Especially when there are people in here saying someone would get punched and turned to mush.

You alone? No, but you are part of it.

Originally posted by carver9
Please tell me you are not blaming me for this one as well? Especially when there are people in here saying someone would get punched and turned to mush.

Who else Carv. My posts are reasonable.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
This was during the era Hulk would revert to Banner if he got too angry, he couldn't go much further than his base as a result (Not a knock against Superman, during this era, his base was incredibly high). Superman still only won just barely, and he didn't limit himself to his fists only. It's been a while but I specifically remember heat vision being used.

Sure, why not, Superman 10/10 if that's what you want to hear.
Not that it matters anything but he was able to amp himself just not too much. Superman only used HV once and that was at the start of the fight which hulk shrugged off more or less and he blindsided superman just before that. That was also Byrne level superman at that point. Superman starts stronger than any standard hulk minus some special personality and is much more durable. If anybody in HH tier can take hulk down in a slugfest, its superman.

Its the truth.Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Hulk isn't stronger as Supes at first, I agree, but he will come to this level before he gets down, because of his HF. Superman has something Hulk doesn't, invulnerability and his HF isn't bad either. Except of this, Superman's strength is dynamic, he gets stronger if he needs to. He is holding back for a reason.

Thor is most likely as strong as Superman, his invunlerabilty isn't just on the same level. He is tough enough, though.

And yes, Supermans biggest advantage is his speed, take it away and they split with him. Thor might even win a majority because of Mjolnirs hits.
Thor isn't as strong as superman, not even close to it in fact. What are you smoking?

Originally posted by abhilegend

Its the truth.
Thor isn't as strong as superman, not even close to it in fact. What are you smoking?

By their portrayal they are peers. In comics, Thor, Superman and Hulk are the icons of strength. In their "official" (not on KMC though) DC vs Marvel, they also were shown to be physical peers. That's enough for me to place them at the same level.
Hulk can increase his strength with rage.
Superman can increase his strength by need, not holding back anymore.
Thor can increase his strength too, with WM.

They all have lows and highs. Sure Supes has the best strength feats out there but how they are portrayed when interacting with each other is also important.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
By their portrayal they are peers. In comics, Thor, Superman and Hulk are the icons of strength. In their "official" (not on KMC though) DC vs Marvel, they also were shown to be physical peers. That's enough for me to place them at the same level.
Hulk can increase his strength with rage.
Superman can increase his strength by need, not holding back anymore.
Thor can increase his strength too, with WM.

They all have lows and highs. Sure Supes has the best strength feats out there but how they are portrayed when interacting with each other is also important.
No, they are certainly not peers either by feats or portrayals. Hulk is the only guy who can compete with superman in strength department. Thor is more like wonder woman in that regard, he can compete with his strength to a degree but would be outclassed if either superman or hulk pour it on. Thor isn't a symbol of strength like superman or hulk are.

Thor can't use WM to increase his strength, not by any showing. B&T Thor isn't WM Thor, that's Thor being insane and not holding back. Superman under certain portrayals can increase his strength. Funnily enough Superman defeated both Thor and Hulk in h2h. He even palmed a hammer strike by Thor while doing so. How's that possible if they are at the same level? Its not possible at all.

You can compare either how they are portrayed or by feats and superman would be MUCH stronger than Thor in either scenario. Its not even debatable, even Thorbags accept that superman is stronger than thor.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime

They all have lows and highs. Sure Supes has the best strength feats out there but how they are portrayed when interacting with each other is also important.

Originally posted by Diesldude
Clears it.





Stops at #3

Probably clears it

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
By their portrayal they are peers. In comics, Thor, Superman and Hulk are the icons of strength. In their "official" (not on KMC though) DC vs Marvel, they also were shown to be physical peers. That's enough for me to place them at the same level.
Hulk can increase his strength with rage.
Superman can increase his strength by need, not holding back anymore.
Thor can increase his strength too, with WM.

They all have lows and highs. Sure Supes has the best strength feats out there but how they are portrayed when interacting with each other is also important.
Since you are going be how they are portrayed when they engaged and not so much by feats then
Superman is shown to be physically superior to Thor went they met. He basically palmed Thor's hammer with one hand and one shotted him.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17

The only interaction between superman and hulk/thor had been resulted in superman knocking out both. He even caught a mjolnir strike. That scene clearly portrayed them as peer, right? Lulz.

Originally posted by h1a8
Since you are going be how they are portrayed when they engaged and not so much by feats then
Superman is shown to be physically superior to Thor went they met. He basically palmed Thor's hammer with one hand and one shotted him.

This was a battle, where they used all their abilities and took damage. This is how they were portrayed while testing their raw strength only:

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/12/123694/2402279-1704300-superman_vs_thor___arm_wrestling_color_super.jpg

iow peers

Originally posted by -Pr-
"base level" Hulk is a misnomer. He starts off as a full high herald.

Then that's his base. Base simply means where he starts at. It doesn't mean anything else and thus can't be a misnomer in itself. Now some will falsely think that Hulk starts far under high herald level in strength as his base. That is a misnomer there.

Imo I say hulk starts around hercules level since hercules and hercules level beings can engage him physically for an extented period of time before hulk gets stronger.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
This was a battle, where they used all their abilities and took damage. This is how they were portrayed while testing their raw strength:

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/12/123694/2402279-1704300-superman_vs_thor___arm_wrestling_color_super.jpg

iow peers

lol that's bs right there. You should know better than that. Obviously different writers believe different things.
If they are peers then why did Superman palm the shit out of Mjolnir like it was nothing and one shot Thor with ease while his ass was sitting on the ground (0 ass leverage ko right there)? That doesn't sound like peers to me.

If feats and other portrayals (which constitute a majority) disagree or contradicts that one showing then why champion that one showing?

Herc DC and Marvel has engaged Hulk, Superman, and Thor in combat. What does that have to do with anything? They are peers like most in here are saying and Hulk strength starts out at high Herald like Pr said...don't get what's so hard to comprehend. There isn't a single showing proving Hulk is below HH strength during the beginning of his transformation. After that, once his anger starts fueling, that's when the test starts. I think Superman is stronger than Thor but not by much. Hulk is stronger than both of them.

@ABHI...

If you are going to use crossovers, make sure you are ready for people to share the love on some stuff to counter your argument, especially using a fans voted battle.

Originally posted by carver9
Herc DC and Marvel has engaged Hulk, Superman, and Thor in combat. What does that have to do with anything? They are peers like most in here are saying and Hulk strength starts out at high Herald like Pr said...don't get what's so hard to comprehend. There isn't a single showing proving Hulk is below HH strength during the beginning of his transformation. After that, once his anger starts fueling, that's when the test starts. I think Superman is stronger than Thor but not by much. Hulk is stronger than both of them.

@ABHI...

If you are going to use crossovers, make sure you are ready for people to share the love on some stuff to counter your argument, especially using a fans voted battle. Just because one has high herald level strength doesn't mean he/she is a peer to another high herald in strength.

High heralds have different degrees of strength ranging from tens of thousands of tons to multiple planetary strength.

Hulk definitely starts far weaker than Superman. But Hulk can reach and surpass even Superman in strength.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
This was a battle, where they used all their abilities and took damage. This is how they were portrayed while testing their raw strength only:

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/12/123694/2402279-1704300-superman_vs_thor___arm_wrestling_color_super.jpg

iow peers

facepalm
Did you just used a deviant art sketch as proof? Which peer palms another peer's hammer strike BTW?Originally posted by carver9
Herc DC and Marvel has engaged Hulk, Superman, and Thor in combat. What does that have to do with anything? They are peers like most in here are saying and Hulk strength starts out at high Herald like Pr said...don't get what's so hard to comprehend. There isn't a single showing proving Hulk is below HH strength during the beginning of his transformation. After that, once his anger starts fueling, that's when the test starts. I think Superman is stronger than Thor but not by much. Hulk is stronger than both of them.

@ABHI...

If you are going to use crossovers, make sure you are ready for people to share the love on some stuff to counter your argument, especially using a fans voted battle.
Around three dozen fights with namor say otherwise.

I'm talking about canon crossovers. Fan voted or not, it was a canon crossover.

Originally posted by h1a8
Just because one has high herald level strength doesn't mean he/she is a peer to another high herald in strength.

High heralds have different degrees of strength ranging from tens of thousands of tons to multiple planetary strength.

Hulk definitely starts far weaker than Superman. But Hulk can reach and surpass even Superman in strength.

No, he doesn't. He starts off at a reasonably high Savage Hulk level, which is in the same ballpark as Superman and Thor, and above the likes of Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Wonderman, etc.

It should also be noted that Namor was able to tango with The Sentry. He's hardly the weakling that many may think he is.

Originally posted by abhilegend
facepalm
Did you just used a deviant art sketch as proof? Which peer palms another peer's hammer strike BTW?
Around three dozen fights with namor say otherwise.

I'm talking about canon crossovers. Fan voted or not, it was a canon crossover.

There you go lowballing (well, trying to) again. I don't how you get away with this crap.

When did Hulk and Superman fight in a canon crossover minus the voted one?

Originally posted by Stoic
It should also be noted that Namor was able to tango with The Sentry. He's hardly the weakling that many may think he is.

He's using classic fts...not the stuff where Namor recently say he can't hang with Hulk and would get killed.

Originally posted by carver9
There you go lowballing (well, trying to) again. I don't how you get away with this crap.

When did Hulk and Superman fight in a canon crossover minus the voted one?
Namor stalemating hulk more than a dozen times isn't lowballing, its just the way it is.

That's the one which was canon. Just because it was fan voted doesn't means anything. Aquaman and namor fought like that too and it was clear that namor was far more powerful. If writers wanted to show hulk's superiority in strength, they would've shown it. It was written by PAD after all.Originally posted by carver9
He's using classic fts...not the stuff where Namor recently say he can't hang with Hulk and would get killed.
Where did he say that? Not in WWH I presume? I am not talking about WWH or WBH here, its savage hulk and merged hulk since they are the most common personalities of hulk.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Hulk isn't stronger as Supes at first, I agree, but he will come to this level before he gets down, because of his HF. Superman has something Hulk doesn't, invulnerability and his HF isn't bad either. Except of this, Superman's strength is dynamic, he gets stronger if he needs to. He is holding back for a reason.

Thor is most likely as strong as Superman, his invunlerabilty isn't just on the same level. He is tough enough, though.

And yes, Supermans biggest advantage is his speed, take it away and they split with him. Thor might even win a majority because of Mjolnirs hits.

We don't see to eye to eye on this one.

I love Thor and I hate the way he's being treated 'round town, and I DO think that he's Superman's equal. That being said, I never had him down as equal to Superman in anything but durability. And in my world that makes perfect sense. How can they be equals if they're physical equals and Thor has all of his other exotic powers?

Superman always had a fairly strong edge (even though Thor can compete physically for a little while), and Thor has a very strong edge when it comes to energy output and such. I also think that Superman can take heat-vision and energy absorption pretty far, but it's always been the point where Thor really has him beat for me.

As far as Hulk goes, I'm put out by this idea that he's somehow in Thor and Superman's league without building up a sizable amount of rage first. I think you misjudge how much his strength grows. He's not much stronger than any regular class 100 before he starts really building rage. His strength doubles and grows a hundredfold and a thousandfold.

Unfortunately it doesn't grow a millionfold and let him become stronger than Superman

Originally posted by -Pr-
No, he doesn't. He starts off at a reasonably high Savage Hulk level, which is in the same ballpark as Superman and Thor, and above the likes of Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Wonderman, etc.

How can you believe that Savage Hulk starts off in Superman and Thor's class? What does this say about the dozens of other low-level people who have fought the Hulk at that level? Can't exactly claim that he was holding back considering he's the Hulk

Originally posted by -Pr-
No, he doesn't. He starts off at a reasonably high Savage Hulk level, which is in the same ballpark as Superman and Thor, and above the likes of Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Wonderman, etc. You referring to current Hulk which entails WWH?
If so then probably he starts at high level Savage Hulk.
If you referring to Savage Hulk or even classic Professor Hulk then I highly disagree.

Also Thor and Superman are not in the same ballpark, not even close. I haven't read a lot of current Hulk, a little though. Last I remember is that can go from Banner to world breaker levels instantly. If that's the case then he can actually start above Superman if he wanted to.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Namor stalemating hulk more than a dozen times isn't lowballing, its just the way it is.

That's the one which was canon. Just because it was fan voted doesn't means anything. Aquaman and namor fought like that too and it was clear that namor was far more powerful. If writers wanted to show hulk's superiority in strength, they would've shown it. It was written by PAD after all.
Where did he say that? Not in WWH I presume? I am not talking about WWH or WBH here, its savage hulk and merged hulk since they are the most common personalities of hulk.

Which again, doesn't help your case. Herc overwhelming Superman doesn't put Superman strength down a notch. Namor doing well against most if not all top tiers doesn't discredit Hulk either, it tells you how powerful Namor is. Wonder Woman did well against an enraged Superman that wasnt pulling his power and Hulk is stronger than her. Superman admitted he couldn't move Adam out of the city and Adam was holding back (whereas Superman was going all out). Orion has stalemated Supes and done well against a sun amped Supes.

Originally posted by abhilegend
facepalm
Did you just used a deviant art sketch as proof? Which peer palms another peer's hammer strike BTW?
Around three dozen fights with namor say otherwise.

I'm talking about canon crossovers. Fan voted or not, it was a canon crossover.

My bad, you are right, I though this was from JLA/Avengers. I remembered it wrong, WW and WM armwrestled there.

The palm feat was at the end of the fight, after Thor took a full HV blast, beofre that, the first blows they traded, they looked pretty even.

Originally posted by curryman
We don't see to eye to eye on this one.

I love Thor and I hate the way he's being treated 'round town, and I DO think that he's Superman's equal. That being said, I never had him down as equal to Superman in anything but durability. And in my world that makes perfect sense. How can they be equals if they're physical equals and Thor has all of his other exotic powers?

Superman always had a fairly strong edge (even though Thor can compete physically for a little while), and Thor has a very strong edge when it comes to energy output and such. I also think that Superman can take heat-vision and energy absorption pretty far, but it's always been the point where Thor really has him beat for me.

As far as Hulk goes, I'm put out by this idea that he's somehow in Thor and Superman's league without building up a sizable amount of rage first. I think you misjudge how much his strength grows. He's not much stronger than any regular class 100 before he starts really building rage. His strength doubles and grows a hundredfold and a thousandfold.

Unfortunately it doesn't grow a millionfold and let him become stronger than Superman



How can you believe that Savage Hulk starts off in Superman and Thor's class? What does this say about the dozens of other low-level people who have fought the Hulk at that level? Can't exactly claim that he was holding back considering he's the Hulk
Thats ok

For me they are equals in strength, durability. Thor has his exotic powes, Superman has his superior speed, HV and other abilities too. Except of this, his invunlerability is better imho.

There we agree. Hulk at the beginning is Class 100, though he gets stronger with rage so does Thor when pushed or Superman when he stops holding back. In the end, neither should be significantly stronger then the other.

Originally posted by carver9
Which again, doesn't help your case. Herc overwhelming Superman doesn't put Superman strength down a notch. Namor doing well against most if not all top tiers doesn't discredit Hulk either, it tells you how powerful Namor is. Wonder Woman did well against an enraged Superman that wasnt pulling his power and Hulk is stronger than her. Superman admitted he couldn't move Adam out of the city and Adam was holding back (whereas Superman was going all out). Orion has stalemated Supes and done well against a sun amped Supes. You really want this closed don't you? Cheapshotting does not equal overpowering. If you think it is, then you have to accept that the hulk was overpowered in all those scans that were posted of the hulk in the ownage thread and that a deer overpowered wolverine. There are better ways to debate dude, u should know better.

Originally posted by carver9
Which again, doesn't help your case. Herc overwhelming Superman doesn't put Superman strength down a notch. Namor doing well against most if not all top tiers doesn't discredit Hulk either, it tells you how powerful Namor is. Wonder Woman did well against an enraged Superman that wasnt pulling his power and Hulk is stronger than her. Superman admitted he couldn't move Adam out of the city and Adam was holding back (whereas Superman was going all out). Orion has stalemated Supes and done well against a sun amped Supes.
Herc overwhelmed superman? Are you all right carver? It does, namor for all his strength would always be a level below true powerhouses. Its just not his character. Superman only punched her once in sacrifice and knocked her out. He was also breaking her bones like twig, that's not doing great. Adam was being presented as stronger than captain marvel in that comic and superman was holding back. Well Orion is a true powerhouse in his own right. Where are you going with all of this? This is just you talking a bunch of nonsense, Adam and Orion are well above Namor.Originally posted by Batman-Prime
My bad, you are right, I though this was from JLA/Avengers. I remembered it wrong, WW and WM armwrestled there.

The palm feat was at the end of the fight, after Thor took a full HV blast, beofre that, the first blows they traded, they looked pretty even.


Thats ok

For me they are equals in strength, durability. Thor has his exotic powes, Superman has his superior speed, HV and other abilities too. Except of this, his invunlerability is better imho.

There we agree. Hulk at the beginning is Class 100, though he gets stronger with rage so does Thor when pushed or Superman when he stops holding back. In the end, neither should be significantly stronger then the other.
Yeah, right.

Thor tanking HV doesn't mean his strength dropped. That's just your speculation, on panel Thor was surprised that superman stopped his all out attack. Punching someone while he punches you doesn't mean you are equal to them. Superman has done that to PC superman, PC superboy, PC Mon-El, SBP, Time-Trapper SBP, Despero and a lot of other characters. Means nothing. Also Thor is most certainly not equal to superman in ANY physical attribute. Stop this nonsense. "Should be" isn't a valid reason here. Superman and hulk are always going to be stronger than thor just like flash is going to be always faster than superman. Its just the way it is.

Only person Superman isn't beating is Hulk. Assuming this is the current version of Hyperion he needs more appearances and doesn't belong here.

Originally posted by The Sorrow
Only person Superman isn't beating is Hulk. Assuming this is the current version of Hyperion he needs more appearances and doesn't belong here.
I can see it as a reasonable argument. What about Thor, Sorrow? When did he become equal to superman in strength? Have you read such a character in Thor comics? I don't think I have.

Originally posted by carver9
There you go lowballing (well, trying to) again. I don't how you get away with this crap.

When did Hulk and Superman fight in a canon crossover minus the voted one?

If he goes you go. Now stop making things personal. That goes for more than carver too.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Herc overwhelmed superman? Are you all right carver? It does, namor for all his strength would always be a level below true powerhouses. Its just not his character. Superman only punched her once in sacrifice and knocked her out. He was also breaking her bones like twig, that's not doing great. Adam was being presented as stronger than captain marvel in that comic and superman was holding back. Well Orion is a true powerhouse in his own right. Where are you going with all of this? This is just you talking a bunch of nonsense, Adam and Orion are well above Namor.
Yeah, right.

Thor tanking HV doesn't mean his strength dropped. That's just your speculation, on panel Thor was surprised that superman stopped his all out attack. Punching someone while he punches you doesn't mean you are equal to them. Superman has done that to PC superman, PC superboy, PC Mon-El, SBP, Time-Trapper SBP, Despero and a lot of other characters. Means nothing. Also Thor is most certainly not equal to superman in ANY physical attribute. Stop this nonsense. "Should be" isn't a valid reason here. Superman and hulk are always going to be stronger than thor just like flash is going to be always faster than superman. Its just the way it is.

I'm done debating this. I will you and Pr debate over a warning.

Originally posted by abhilegend
I can see it as a reasonable argument. What about Thor, Sorrow? When did he become equal to superman in strength? Have you read such a character in Thor comics? I don't think I have.
I don't think Thor is really anywhere near Superman/Hulk level in strength. He somewhat bridges that gap with good damage soak and Mjolnir but in straight up h2h he hasn't a chance at defeating either imo.

Originally posted by carver9
I'm done debating this. I will you and Pr debate over a warning.
That didn't made any sense.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Not that it matters anything but he was able to amp himself just not too much. Superman only used HV once and that was at the start of the fight which hulk shrugged off more or less and he blindsided superman just before that. That was also Byrne level superman at that point. Superman starts stronger than any standard hulk minus some special personality and is much more durable. If anybody in HH tier can take hulk down in a slugfest, its superman.

What do you mean it doesn't matter? Hulk not being able to amp himself more than his base by a certain degree does matter, and significantly so.

His heat vision did hurt the Hulk and it automatically disqualifies this from being a slugfest. Superman's not beating Hulk in a slugfest, and referencing a fight where he barely beats a Hulk who has his entire shtick neutered does not help your case. I don't even know why you brought it up to counter my point since it's invalid.

Superman can beat Hulk, but it's not going to be by standing his ground and trading punches. The best he can hope for is a stalemate. Superman is the go to hero but at this point, Hulk is too firmly established as the strength guy.

Feel free to disagree.

So a slugfest is where they trade punches (tic for tat) or they fight just using punches?

Originally posted by abhilegend
No, they are certainly not peers either by feats or portrayals. Hulk is the only guy who can compete with superman in strength department. Thor is more like wonder woman in that regard, he can compete with his strength to a degree but would be outclassed if either superman or hulk pour it on.

This I agree with

Originally posted by -Pr-
I really don't want to have to close this one too...

Would you have an innocent thread and posters destroyed with the guilty?

In your heart you know that isn't right!

Originally posted by Batman-Prime

Thats ok

For me they are equals in strength, durability. Thor has his exotic powes, Superman has his superior speed, HV and other abilities too. Except of this, his invunlerability is better imho.

There we agree. Hulk at the beginning is Class 100, though he gets stronger with rage so does Thor when pushed or Superman when he stops holding back. In the end, neither should be significantly stronger then the other.

Superman's invulnerability seem to be a notch above the others yeah. In the end I think him and Thor would be able to soak up more or less than same amount of damage, but Superman seems to have a higher threshold when it comes to just flat out ignoring damage. I'm not so sure about Thor's physical strength tho! If he's hitting with Mjolnir then I think he can go around and over Supes, but I think I'd put my money on Supes any day when it's bare hands!

Yeah, I guess Hulk's healing factor also increases with his rage. But I still think he'd need to get real angry real quick to take the first 3-4 punches and still stand.

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Superman

VS

1) Hercules
2) Wonder-Man
3) Thor
4) Hulk
5) Hyperion

Man Of Steel or Men of MarveL?

Stops cold at 4.

Originally posted by Dampyre
Stops cold at 4.

That initial speedblitz + power level doesn't result in a flash KO for Superman against the Hulk?

Also, what is Hyperion doing at number 5?

Originally posted by Dampyre
Also, what is Hyperion doing at number 5?

Hey, Canon doesn't lie.

*Holding universes apart earns you the top spot!*

This statement is approved by Jonathan Hickman.

Originally posted by curryman
Superman's invulnerability seem to be a notch above the others yeah. In the end I think him and Thor would be able to soak up more or less than same amount of damage, but Superman seems to have a higher threshold when it comes to just flat out ignoring damage. I'm not so sure about Thor's physical strength tho! If he's hitting with Mjolnir then I think he can go around and over Supes, but I think I'd put my money on Supes any day when it's bare hands!

Yeah, I guess Hulk's healing factor also increases with his rage. But I still think he'd need to get real angry real quick to take the first 3-4 punches and still stand.


We all know you hate the Hulk bro. Stop making it so obvious.

Lol.

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
That initial speedblitz + power level doesn't result in a flash KO for Superman against the Hulk?

No, it doesn't. Perhaps you missed the title of the thread?

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Hey, Canon doesn't lie.

*Holding universes apart earns you the top spot!*

This statement is approved by Jonathan Hickman.


And yet he simply stalemates a mind-controlled Hulk.

Originally posted by Dampyre
No, it doesn't. Perhaps you missed the title of the thread?

I made the thread.

The speed of the punches. I think you would concede that Superman lands at least 3 before Hulk can respond.

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
I made the thread.

The speed of the punches. I think you would concede that Superman lands at least 3 before Hulk can respond.

So, this isn't a slugfest then? And when Superman fought the rage-impaired Hulk he didn't land 3 punches to Hulk's one.

Originally posted by carver9
There you go lowballing (well, trying to) again. I don't how you get away with this crap.

When did Hulk and Superman fight in a canon crossover minus the voted one?

:hone rings::

"Hello? Kettle? This is carver... you're black"

<click>

Originally posted by Dampyre
So, this isn't a slugfest then? And when Superman fought the rage-impaired Hulk he didn't land 3 punches to Hulk's one.

They are restrcted to punches, ergo a slugfest.

If it is punch for punch Hulk still drops first.

That crossover wasn't KMC approved as both weren't going all out at the start.

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Superman

VS

1) Hercules
2) Wonder-Man
3) Thor
4) Hulk
5) Hyperion

Man Of Steel or Men of MarveL?

1) Poor Herc gets knocked senseless

2) I don't see him really causing a problem for Supes

3) While Thor is one of my all time favorites, I've accepted the fact him and Supes are in different leagues (Hey no shame, the man of steel has that over quite a few people.)

4) Love the hulk, but I've always said..I'd be scared of a pissed Hulk, but I'd be terrified of a pissed Superman. If he's not holding back and basically is viewing Hulk as he would Darkseid I don't see this going in the hulks favor.

5) I don't know enough about Hyperion to really judge....like I literally know nothing of him..I saw a scan of him beat up and Man Thing about to touch him or something >_>....but from what I hear he's like a Marvel Supes so I can't really give a choice here.

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
They are restrcted to punches, ergo a slugfest.

If it is punch for punch Hulk still drops first.

That crossover wasn't KMC approved as both weren't going all out at the start.

All your opinion buddy.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
What do you mean it doesn't matter? Hulk not being able to amp himself more than his base by a certain degree does matter, and significantly so. Because he never reached that point where he would've turned into banner. Whenever that happened hulk was seen as worrying that he would turn into banner. Superman knocked him out before he reached that point.

Not if the slugfest was the main reason hulk got KTFO. Hulk shrugged off that HV blast. Hulk's entire shtick wasn't neutered and it was canon and written by PAD. I don't think its much of a stretch to imagine any future meeting would go the same way.

He obviously can, he's no Thor. Superman is and always going to be the strength guy. Its just too firmly rooted in his character. Sure Pak gave a firm push to Hulk's invincibility but that's past us. He's again going to be the same hulk of old. He's tough as hell but cn be beaten if he doesn't get too angry.

The only thing to disagree is that how does anybody suggests that this is anything but a slugfest which knocked hulk out?

http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/15367322_DCvsMarvel03a.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/15367323_DCvsMarvel03b.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/15367324_DCvsMarvel03c.jpg

1). Hulk was capped. Unable to use his full strength.
2). Superman using heat vision takes away from it being a slugfest. The only thing missing is ice breath.
3). That fight was fan voted which means the writers opinion is thrown out the window.
4). Superman said he gave EVERYTHING against a Hulk that couldn't amp. Imagine him facing someone like Savage that doesn't have limitations or WWH.

I'm sure you like to, Carver.

Originally posted by carver9
1). Hulk was capped. Unable to use his full strength.
2). Superman using heat vision takes away from it being a slugfest. The only thing missing is ice breath.
3). That fight was fan voted which means the writers opinion is thrown out the window.
4). Superman said he gave EVERYTHING against a Hulk that couldn't amp. Imagine him facing someone like Savage that doesn't have limitations or WWH.
1. False. Don't make me post scans of how "savage banner" mode worked or you would be made a fool once again.

2. A single blast of HV which hulk shrugged off.

3. That was Byrne superman too. Superman at the end of DCU was much stronger than him. Savage's base was much lower than Merged hulk. That means he would be KTFO before he amps too much.

4. Not true at all. Fans only voted who to win, it was upto writers to write how to write the fight. If the wanted to made the fight vague they could've gone to the route as SS/GL fight or would've shown Hulk as stronger like they did to namor against hulk and would've shown superman winning by other means like super-speed or something else. Nothing of that sort happened, superman straight up dropped hulk in a slugfest.

You dont have to post proof, I will.

Savage Hulk dominates Thor in a physical fight.


http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd124/HulkFights/Vs%20Thor/Fight%203/9.jpg
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd124/HulkFights/Vs%20Thor/Fight%203/10.jpg
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd124/HulkFights/Vs%20Thor/Fight%203/11.jpg
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd124/HulkFights/Vs%20Thor/Fight%203/12.jpg
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd124/HulkFights/Vs%20Thor/Fight%203/13.jpg
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd124/HulkFights/Vs%20Thor/Fight%203/14.jpg
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd124/HulkFights/Vs%20Thor/Fight%203/15.jpg
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd124/HulkFights/Vs%20Thor/Fight%203/16.jpg
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd124/HulkFights/Vs%20Thor/Fight%203/17.jpg
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd124/HulkFights/Vs%20Thor/Fight%203/18.jpg

Savage Banner fights Thor and is losing and admits that he is losing because he can't amp.

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd124/HulkFights/Vs%20Thor/Fight%208/1.jpg
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd124/HulkFights/Vs%20Thor/Fight%208/2.jpg
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd124/HulkFights/Vs%20Thor/Fight%208/3.jpg
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd124/HulkFights/Vs%20Thor/Fight%208/4.jpg
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd124/HulkFights/Vs%20Thor/Fight%208/5.jpg
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd124/HulkFights/Vs%20Thor/Fight%208/6.jpg
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd124/HulkFights/Vs%20Thor/Fight%208/7.jpg
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd124/HulkFights/Vs%20Thor/Fight%208/8.jpg
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd124/HulkFights/Vs%20Thor/Fight%208/9.jpg
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd124/HulkFights/Vs%20Thor/Fight%208/10.jpg

I will reply to the rest of your lame post later.

Just like to point out that was bannerless hulk. That is all.

Originally posted by carver9
You dont have to post proof, I will.

Savage Hulk dominates Thor in a physical fight.


http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd124/HulkFights/Vs%20Thor/Fight%203/9.jpg
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd124/HulkFights/Vs%20Thor/Fight%203/10.jpg
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd124/HulkFights/Vs%20Thor/Fight%203/11.jpg
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd124/HulkFights/Vs%20Thor/Fight%203/12.jpg
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd124/HulkFights/Vs%20Thor/Fight%203/13.jpg
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd124/HulkFights/Vs%20Thor/Fight%203/14.jpg
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd124/HulkFights/Vs%20Thor/Fight%203/15.jpg
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd124/HulkFights/Vs%20Thor/Fight%203/16.jpg
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd124/HulkFights/Vs%20Thor/Fight%203/17.jpg
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd124/HulkFights/Vs%20Thor/Fight%203/18.jpg

Savage Banner fights Thor and is losing and admits that he is losing because he can't amp.

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd124/HulkFights/Vs%20Thor/Fight%208/1.jpg
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd124/HulkFights/Vs%20Thor/Fight%208/2.jpg
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd124/HulkFights/Vs%20Thor/Fight%208/3.jpg
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd124/HulkFights/Vs%20Thor/Fight%208/4.jpg
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd124/HulkFights/Vs%20Thor/Fight%208/5.jpg
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd124/HulkFights/Vs%20Thor/Fight%208/6.jpg
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd124/HulkFights/Vs%20Thor/Fight%208/7.jpg
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd124/HulkFights/Vs%20Thor/Fight%208/8.jpg
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd124/HulkFights/Vs%20Thor/Fight%208/9.jpg
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd124/HulkFights/Vs%20Thor/Fight%208/10.jpg

I will reply to the rest of your lame post later.
@posting bannerless hulk vs thor here.

As usual you don't know what you are talking about. Savage Banner mode only activated when Hulk was TOO ANGRY. Hulk wasn't losing there, he was afraid that he would turn into Banner if he got too angry and thus not going all out. Savage hulk was fighting Thor for a relatively long time and could've passed merged hulk in strength department somewhere in the fight. It doesn't changes the fact that Merged hulk started way stronger than savage and could still amp his strength like every hulk, sometime even faster than others.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Strength/ProfessorHulkStrength01389.jpg

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Powers/ProfessorHulkAmping03413.jpg

Savage banner failsafe only emerged when Betty was threatened and Hulk got too angry.

Originally posted by abhilegend
@posting bannerless hulk vs thor here.

As usual you don't know what you are talking about. Savage Banner mode only activated when Hulk was TOO ANGRY. Hulk wasn't losing there, he was afraid that he would turn into Banner if he got too angry and thus not going all out. Savage hulk was fighting Thor for a relatively long time and could've passed merged hulk in strength department somewhere in the fight. It doesn't changes the fact that Merged hulk started way stronger than savage and could still amp his strength like every hulk, sometime even faster than others.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Strength/ProfessorHulkStrength01389.jpg

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Powers/ProfessorHulkAmping03413.jpg

Savage banner failsafe only emerged when Betty was threatened and Hulk got too angry.
I know you enjoy riling up Carver Abhil but that's a lie and you know it, using Merged Hulk prior to the Savage Banner limitation isn't going to go unnoticed by people that actually have read Hulk books. In the clash with Superman he couldn't increase his strength and that was stated by writers and also fits into his continuity at the time.

lmfao at this kid posting scans of Hulk getting stalemated by Thor not using his hammer, and then trying to somehow twist that into Hulk standing a chance against Superman.

Shame the ignore button doesn't keep you from seeing people's posts when they're quoted

Guys, get back on topic. Don't try to pretend that the last couple of pages have been anything close to that.

So is this a straight fight where speed is equalized between all combatants cause that could change on how I think he fairs through this gauntlet.

If speed is equalized I think Hercules could take Superman using his skill.

If speed is not equalized I could see Superman clearing it.

Originally posted by The Sorrow
I know you enjoy riling up Carver Abhil but that's a lie and you know it, using Merged Hulk prior to the Savage Banner limitation isn't going to go unnoticed by people that actually have read Hulk books. In the clash with Superman he couldn't increase his strength and that was stated by writers and also fits into his continuity at the time.
Merged hulk could still amp his strength in savage banner era, he would just revert to banner if he got too angry. Where was this stated that he couldn't amp his strength?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Because he never reached that point where he would've turned into banner. Whenever that happened hulk was seen as worrying that he would turn into banner. Superman knocked him out before he reached that point.

But without that limitation, Hulk chose to be a lot less restrained at different points. He even began to instinctively keep his anger in check, more so than usual.

Hulk wouldn't let himself amp much past his base, because he couldn't. If he got too angry, he would start running into problems such as in his fight with Thor:
http://s226.beta.photobucket.com/user/HulkFights/media/Vs%20Thor/Fight%208/3.jpg.html

Do you really not see how huge of a difference it would make if Hulk could get as angry as he wanted to without worrying about turning into Banner nagging at the back of his mind?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Not if the slugfest was the main reason hulk got KTFO. Hulk shrugged off that HV blast. Hulk's entire shtick wasn't neutered and it was canon and written by PAD. I don't think its much of a stretch to imagine any future meeting would go the same way.

I'm sorry, but I'm not about to completely ignore an attack that hurt an opponent in a fight this close. Who's to say Superman would have won if he chose to trade blows instead of blasting him from a distance and flying fists first into Hulk's face?

I think it very much is, if a Hulk PAD wrote to be significantly hand-capped in battles against other high end strongmen compared to his other incarnations barely lost to Superman.

Originally posted by abhilegend
He obviously can, he's no Thor. Superman is and always going to be the strength guy. Its just too firmly rooted in his character. Sure Pak gave a firm push to Hulk's invincibility but that's past us. He's again going to be the same hulk of old. He's tough as hell but cn be beaten if he doesn't get too angry.

Sorry, but Hulk has dwarfed even Superman on that front.

Originally posted by abhilegend
The only thing to disagree is that how does anybody suggests that this is anything but a slugfest which knocked hulk out?

http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/15367322_DCvsMarvel03a.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/15367323_DCvsMarvel03b.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/15367324_DCvsMarvel03c.jpg

Because when heat vision and flight are used to your advantage, then it's no longer considered to be a slugfest.

It's just bad timing when that cross over occurred. If it happened at any time, in the past or now, the outcome will be the same. It was a battle of what hulk stands for against superman. Brute strength and superman beat him at his own game. Superman doesn't go for the kill shot with his HV. It was more like get him off balance type tactic. It didn't work, so they slugged it out.


Edit: iirc there was a time limit. Not sure if they had to be down for a certain amount of time for a KO or that they had to finish the fight in a certain amount of time. From the scans, they were trading punches until superman got serious and decided to put him down with that final punch.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Merged hulk could still amp his strength in savage banner era, he would just revert to banner if he got too angry. Where was this stated that he couldn't amp his strength?
The fact that his rage is what amps his strength maybe? In the Thor fight Carver posted Hulk had barely been fighting Thor and was already worrying about turning back into Banner. It was a silly way of basically shoehorning the savage persona back into continuity but I don't see how you can argue against what was at that point, an integral plot point of PADs run.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
But without that limitation, Hulk chose to be a lot less restrained at different points. He even began to instinctively keep his anger in check, more so than usual. Yeah and whenever that happened, hulk was too angry at that point. Not like in his fight with superman.

No such problems were given when he fought superman who knocked him out before he could get too angry to reach the failsafe.



Hulk was clearly unhurt by that attack. Do you have so little faith in merged hulk's HF under PAD? Dude was healing holes in his chest in moments and he even states he was able to withstand a lot more. Flying into hulk? Now you're just nitpicking.

He wasn't handicapped in the fight because before he reached the point of his handicap to take any effect, he was knocked out.



I feel sorry for you then. SUPER-strength, think about it.



HV was shrugged off and the flight was in response to hulk's ground pound effect. It was a slugfest and superman knocked hulk out before he got too angry. Heck, they even stood and traded punches for the most part. Why's that so difficult to grasp?

It wasn't a slugfest if he used flight and hv.

Originally posted by The Sorrow
The fact that his rage is what amps his strength maybe? In the Thor fight Carver posted Hulk had barely been fighting Thor and was already worrying about turning back into Banner. It was a silly way of basically shoehorning the savage persona back into continuity but I don't see how you can argue against what was at that point, an integral plot point of PADs run.
His rage wasn't subdued at any point, he could still get angry and amp his strength. They were fighting for an hour when that happened IIRC. Carver posted bannerless hulk fighting thor. FYI, savage banner failsafe was in place from start of merged hulk's emergence. He just realized it when he got too angry seeing Betty getting shot and turned into banner.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Powers/ProfessorHulkTransformation13426.jpg

It was there from the start, just hidden.

Originally posted by abhilegend
His rage wasn't subdued at any point, he could still get angry and amp his strength. They were fighting for an hour when that happened IIRC. Carver posted bannerless hulk fighting thor. FYI, savage banner failsafe was in place from start of merged hulk's emergence. He just realized it when he got too angry seeing Betty getting shot and turned into banner.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Powers/ProfessorHulkTransformation13426.jpg

It was there from the start, just hidden.
Hulk wasn't Bannerless until after the Onslaught saga bro.

you just contradicted your own point in your own scan. It clearly says "the madder he gets the weaker he gets", this happened throughout the latter part of the Merged Hulk's appearances. When he fought Superman the limitation was still in place and there's no getting around that.

Hulk/Banner started to lose control long before Betty got shot, that was what finally pushed him over the edge. Banner has always been able to affect his multiple personalities mentally or spiritually this isn't something new, Leonard's words in that scan don't tell us much we didn't already know. When merged Hulk first appeared rage-amping wasn't a problem, after the Betty incident, it was. Your theory is pure speculation. We saw what happened once merged Hulk was finally allowed to release his anger after Jean removed the Banner failsafe, he wrecked Onslaughts armour solo.

Originally posted by The Sorrow
Hulk wasn't Bannerless until after the Onslaught saga bro.

you just contradicted your own point in your own scan. It clearly says "the madder he gets the weaker he gets", this happened throughout the latter part of the Merged Hulk's appearances. When he fought Superman the limitation was still in place and there's no getting around that.

Hulk/Banner started to lose control long before Betty got shot, that was what finally pushed him over the edge. Banner has always been able to affect his multiple personalities mentally or spiritually this isn't something new, Leonard's words in that scan don't tell us much we didn't already know. When merged Hulk first appeared rage-amping wasn't a problem, after the Betty incident, it was. Your theory is pure speculation. We saw what happened once merged Hulk was finally allowed to release his anger after Jean removed the Banner failsafe, he wrecked Onslaughts armour solo.
I know that. I was talking about Thor 489.

That was said in the context of him turning into banner not that hulk was getting weaker as he got madder. That's just absurd. He never got anywhere near that level. "Savage banner" was not about hulk not being able to amp, that's just a flat out lie.

He was always able to amp his strength before or after that incident. Savage banner failsafe only made sure that if he got too angry he would turn back into banner. You are not speculating, you are just flat out wrong here. Jean didn't remove the banner failsafe, she turned off his rational mind. Even before that he was at his angriest as Samson put it "He has never been angrier" against Thor in hulk 440 and he didn't turn into banner while still amping to the point that at the end he was manhandling Thor with one hand.

Originally posted by abhilegend
I know that. I was talking about Thor 489.

That was said in the context of him turning into banner not that hulk was getting weaker as he got madder. That's just absurd. He never got anywhere near that level. "Savage banner" was not about hulk not being able to amp, that's just a flat out lie.

He was always able to amp his strength before or after that incident. Savage banner failsafe only made sure that if he got too angry he would turn back into banner. You are not speculating, you are just flat out wrong here. Jean didn't remove the banner failsafe, she turned off his rational mind. Even before that he was at his angriest as Samson put it "He has never been angrier" against Thor in hulk 440 and he didn't turn into banner while still amping to the point that at the end he was manhandling Thor with one hand.

The Banner fail safe wasn't in affect during his fight with Thor. IIRC the brain shrapnel. It's why they were able to cut loose with all they had like that.



Seriously:
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg102/Knowsbleed33/Onslaughtspower1b.jpg

"You have to enter my brain telepathically and turn Banner off. Shut him down."

"Your Human side? I can't"

"My control side"

Although the Savage Banner limitation had been removed by then due to brain damage I think, unless it was temporary. It's been a while, I'd have to double check.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah and whenever that happened, hulk was too angry at that point. Not like in his fight with superman.

Like I said, Hulk instinctively tried not to get angry and controlled himself at a point:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsHulk33.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsHulk34.jpg

He would literally hold himself back even more than he usually did with his anger.

Don't you get it? He treated almost everyone, even Superman apparently, with kid gloves because he didn't want to start amping. Without the limitation he wouldn't have any reason to restrain himself so.

Originally posted by abhilegend
No such problems were given when he fought superman who knocked him out before he could get too angry to reach the failsafe.

Still not getting it. Hulk didn't even have to get very angry for it to kick in, he had to just start losing control.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Hulk was clearly unhurt by that attack. Do you have so little faith in merged hulk's HF under PAD? Dude was healing holes in his chest in moments and he even states he was able to withstand a lot more. Flying into hulk? Now you're just nitpicking.

It hurt him, argh wasn't a sound of pleasure.

Yes, Hulk's healing factor was nearly unmatched, particularly when he was angry.

Originally posted by abhilegend
He wasn't handicapped in the fight because before he reached the point of his handicap to take any effect, he was knocked out.

I feel sorry for you then. SUPER-strength, think about it.

You're not even making any sense anymore.

Irrelevant point.

Originally posted by abhilegend
HV was shrugged off and the flight was in response to hulk's ground pound effect. It was a slugfest and superman knocked hulk out before he got too angry. Heck, they even stood and traded punches for the most part. Why's that so difficult to grasp?

Agree to disagree if you want but it simply was not a slugfest. And in a fight so close, I have no idea why you think a blast of heat vision and Superman's ability to retaliate with flight is so insignificant.

Originally posted by -Pr-
"base level" Hulk is a misnomer. He starts off as a full high herald. thank you very much

Originally posted by -Pr-
"base level" Hulk is a misnomer. He starts off as a full high herald.

For what I have read about Hulk He does not starts that high on his strength level and most of the time when He performs ok vs a team, is because the team is holding back.

He is usually portrayed as starting around thing level and then he builds up from there.

On his fight vs Gladiator when He was Banerless Hulk IIRC , He won WITH A HUGE plot going on since the beginning of the comic.

When He fought against the team of avengers, the avengers team was holding back. Hulk was getting weaker, BUT he was MUCH, MUCH stronger than a base level Hulk.

Professor Hulk started off also stronger than Savage Hulk with the difference that He actually had the advantage of being intelligent. He could not tap into the "limitless strength" due to the failsafe, but He started stronger than Savage Hulk.

He has some good showings as Savage Hulk, but that is at a high stress level

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
For what I have read about Hulk He does not starts that high on his strength level and most of the time when He performs ok vs a team, is because the team is holding back.

He is usually portrayed as starting around thing level and then he builds up from there.

On his fight vs Gladiator when He was Banerless Hulk IIRC , He won WITH A HUGE plot going on since the beginning of the comic.

When He fought against the team of avengers, the avengers team was holding back. Hulk was getting weaker, BUT he was MUCH, MUCH stronger than a base level Hulk.

Professor Hulk started off also stronger than Savage Hulk with the difference that He actually had the advantage of being intelligent. He could not tap into the "limitless strength" due to the failsafe, but He started stronger than Savage Hulk.

He has some good showings as Savage Hulk, but that is at a high stress level

You don't read many Hulk comics, do you?

What has current Hulk done?

Originally posted by Dampyre
You don't read many Hulk comics, do you?

Up till they changed to volume 2 that was the norm, unless he is bannerless or something else was going on.

Why are you asking? Have you? Or are you a hulk expert fron greg pak till now?

Im going to ask again, can someone tell me a SINGLE showing that proves Hulk doesn't start off at High Herald strength.

Yes, get those numerous beatings vs the army, snakes, gas, facing the thing and then you will see it.

He starts off strong but ben grim strong, then he works his way up to high stress.

You want me to list you all the issues where he has done that, or you only need one?

Professor starts way above savage, savage can get higher, but he needs to build up.

Unless you think savage is herald,professor is trans and wbh skyfather......

Originally posted by carver9
Im going to ask again, can someone tell me a SINGLE showing that proves Hulk doesn't start off at High Herald strength.

Shut up or i'll change my mind.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Yes, get those numerous beatings vs the army, snakes, gas, facing the thing and then you will see it.

He starts off strong but ben grim strong, then he works his way up to high stress.

You want me to list you all the issues where he has done that, or you only need one?

Professor starts way above savage, savage can get higher, but he needs to build up.

Unless you think savage is herald,professor is trans and wbh skyfather......

Him being beaten (lol, low showings and when has CURRENT Hulk been beaten by any of those things) have to do with his durability, not his strength. A weakened Hulk that getting drained of his power defeated both Thing and Wolverine.

Originally posted by carver9
Im going to ask again, can someone tell me a SINGLE showing that proves Hulk doesn't start off at High Herald strength.

The fight against Black Bolt when he gets KO'd.

It was in the early 70's so it has to be in the 130's.

Originally posted by carver9
Him being beaten (lol, low showings and when has CURRENT Hulk been beaten by any of those things) have to do with his durability, not his strength. A weakened Hulk that getting drained of his power defeated both Thing and Wolverine.

I am not talking about low showings, but the NORM.

He gets worked up to stalemate someone in some cases or he is loosing in other cases , then He comes with that famous line "Hulk is the strongest one there is" He becomes stronger and wins the day.

Does that sounds like the HULK to you?

Oh and I just saw, you said "CURRENT" but didn't he got worked up by some bugs recently?, Though I do not know if that was the savage version tbh. But how many showings does Savage has recently?

And I just noticed that you changed your stand from a single showing to a RECENT showing

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
The Banner fail safe wasn't in affect during his fight with Thor. IIRC the brain shrapnel. It's why they were able to cut loose with all they had like that.



Seriously:
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg102/Knowsbleed33/Onslaughtspower1b.jpg

"You have to enter my brain telepathically and turn Banner off. Shut him down."

"Your Human side? I can't"

"My control side"

Although the Savage Banner limitation had been removed by then due to brain damage I think, unless it was temporary. It's been a while, I'd have to double check.
Yeah, no. The sharpenal was just making him dumb, not that it removed his failsafe.

You are quite a hulk expert now, it seems. Just tell me how did the original mindless hulk was born? Something like Banner's mind being dormant, right? Just think about what happened there when Jean turned off Banner's mind. That was no longer merged hulk, that was mindless hulk operating. Seriously when did merged hulk mentioned himself in third person?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Like I said, Hulk instinctively tried not to get angry and controlled himself at a point:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsHulk33.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsHulk34.jpg

He would literally hold himself back even more than he usually did with his anger. He wasn't going all out because he would go over the critical mass which he sensed approaching before that. Thor himself notes that at one point he was like a berserker viking and then he restrains himself. Those scans do more harm to you than good. Hulk as I said was able to get angry and amp himself but at one point he was able to sense that if he gets any more angry he would change back in banner. Nothing of that sort happened against superman. He was knocked out before that happened.

Nope, that's not what happened. He only restrained himself when he sensed he was near "critical mass".



At near critical mass, not just any moment.



He was angry, not that it matters. Even a calm merged hulk was healing worse in moments.





durly


durelly



I think I would agree to disagree at this point.

@Rao...

Provide scans of Hulk being beaten by bugs and again, that doesn't have anything to do with strength, thats durability. Hulk at a calm state held up a mountain twice the size our biggest mountain in the U.S.

Originally posted by carver9
Im going to ask again, can someone tell me a SINGLE showing that proves Hulk doesn't start off at High Herald strength.
Fighting namor on land for an entire issue? Getting knocked out by Namor? His many fights against Thing? Thor being able to match his strength for an entire hour despite his strength increasing constantly? How many more you want? Savage starts at 85 tons and gets stronger with anger, his stalemates with Namor prove that who he's fought more than anybody else.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Fighting namor on land for an entire issue? Getting knocked out by Namor? His many fights against Thing? Thor being able to match his strength for an entire hour despite his strength increasing constantly? How many more you want? Savage starts at 85 tons and gets stronger with anger, his stalemates with Namor prove that who he's fought more than anybody else.

Namor is above class 100.

Namor is above class 100.

Thing was never proven as being as strong as Hulk.

Thor is above class 100.

Please leave this to me and Rao.

Originally posted by carver9
@Rao...

Provide scans of Hulk being beaten by bugs and again, that doesn't have anything to do with strength, that durability. Hulk at a calm state held up a mountain twice the size our biggest mountain in the U.S.

I did not said "beaten" I said worked up. Don't try to use words I did not use.

If by the feat I am thinking you mean the secret wars one? or is there another one?

And I believe is widely known that Savage Hulk starts off at 75 ton or at 85 ton with POTENTIALLY becoming stronger to incalculable levels, depending on his stress level. Now I do not know how calm you can be when You see a mountain that is about to fall in your dome and you can only lift 75 tons at base level, but I will get pretty stressed in that situation, won't you?

Mindless or Bannerless start at PEAK but become weaker due to the lack of banner and start loosing strength.

WBH and WWH is the HULK who achieves critical mass and can stay at peak, with out getting weaker.

You remember that post I made for you comparing the hulks? I think you even started using it in some of your arguments.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
I did not said "beaten" I said worked up. Don't try to corrupt the argument.

If by the feat I am thinking you mean the secret wars one? or is there another one?

Yes, a calm Hulk held up a mountain twice the size of the Appalachians.

Originally posted by carver9
Namor is above class 100.

Namor is above class 100.

Thing was never proven as being as strong as Hulk.

Thor is above class 100.

Please leave this to me and Rao.

What about Boltagan?

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
What about Boltagan?

Blackbolt? When did Black Bolt physically restrain Hulk?

Originally posted by carver9
Blackbolt? When did Black Bolt physically restrain Hulk?

Blackbolt knocked out Savage Hulk.

IIRC it is in the 130'S in the early seventies.

Originally posted by carver9
Namor is above class 100.

Namor is above class 100.

Thing was never proven as being as strong as Hulk.

Thor is above class 100.

Please leave this to me and Rao.
Namor is the weakest class 100 and he was stalemating hulk even after hulk got stronger, how's that possible if hulk was already class 100?

Doesn't matter in this. Hulk after being angry was KOED by namor.

So even after being angry for one hour, he was only able to stalemate Thor? Superman is stronger than hulk even after he gets angry for one hour then.

A 45 tonner Thing was just as strong as an angry hulk when his strength was doubled by outside means. I think you know how to do math.

Nope.

sneer

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Blackbolt knocked out Savage Hulk.

IIRC it is in the 130'S in the early seventies.


So BlackBolt overpowered Hulk? Scans.

Also, a calm Hulk held up a mountain twice the size of the Appalachians.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/12259408/Hulk4.jpg.html

Originally posted by carver9
Yes, a calm Hulk held up a mountain twice the size of the Appalachians.

That is not SAVAGE HULK, that is "Banner Hulk"

As in Banner is in control, Now I do not know how calm you can be, when You see a mountain that is about to fall in your dome and you can only lift 75 tons at base level but I will get pretty stressed out in that situation, won't you?

Not to mention that the feat says that Hulk is bracing TWO MILES OF ROCK.

Secret Wars #4 when Iron man is talking to the Hulk on the first panel.

I think is clear that Hulk is bracing TWO miles of rock

Is there, I am not making this up.

It says that Hulk is bracing TWO miles of rock.

So basically it says that HE is supporting two miles of rock BECAUSE he has leverage.

It does NOT says that He is supporting 150 billion tons, the COVER and page says that HULK is UNDER 150 Billion tons, BUT the feat says that he is ONLY supporting TWO miles of rock.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Strength/th_SavageHulkLifting16SW4.jpg


Anyhow, Savage HULK and Banner Hulk at about the same base strength level.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Fighting namor on land for an entire issue? Getting knocked out by Namor? His many fights against Thing? Thor being able to match his strength for an entire hour despite his strength increasing constantly? How many more you want? Savage starts at 85 tons and gets stronger with anger, his stalemates with Namor prove that who he's fought more than anybody else.

IIRC it was hours.

There's also Spider-man knocking him out, Samson being able to stalemate him for a long time/knock him out/contend physically for a long time. Iron Man knocking him out/fighting him, Abomination being way stronger in the beginning, teen Colossus fighting him for a long time, etc.

I don't see why Hulk fans need to cling to this desperate notion that Hulk does not only get stronger, but that he already is stronger than everybody else.

Furthermore, start off at "high herald strength" ? What is high herald strength? Because few of the people in any of the herald categories are equally strong. And the people who are put in high are normally put there on the grounds of being herald-level and then sometimes going off into the trans-tier, but OBVIOUSLY Hulk's base strength is not in the "passes into trans tier" since then it would no longer be his base!

His base is clearly hundreds of times higher than Sinestro's...who is a human yet in high herald. So Superman then? Arguably the strongest guy in the high herald category? Is that where he starts? Because if so, then people should say "Hulk's base is Superman's level" and debate that, instead of trying to pass some vague collective consensus based off of all of the characters in one category being around the same strength-level WHEN THEY ARE CLEARLY NOT

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
That is not SAVAGE HULK, that is "Banner Hulk"

As in Banner is in control, Now I do not know how calm you can be, when You see a mountain that is about to fall in your dome and you can only lift 75 tons at base level but I will get pretty stressed out in that situation, won't you?

Not to mention that the feat says that Hulk is bracing TWO MILES OF ROCK.

Secret Wars #4 when Iron man is talking to the Hulk on the first panel.

I think is clear that Hulk is bracing TWO miles of rock

Is there, I am not making this up.

It says that Hulk is bracing TWO miles of rock.

So basically it says that HE is supporting two miles of rock BECAUSE he has leverage.

It does NOT says that He is supporting 150 billion tons, the COVER and page says that HULK is UNDER 150 Billion tons, BUT the feat says that he is ONLY supporting TWO miles of rock.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Strength/th_SavageHulkLifting16SW4.jpg


Anyhow, Savage HULK and Banner Hulk at about the same base strength level.

You are really grasping at straws.

Originally posted by Raisen
You are really grasping at straws.

It is there, read it!

Is clear as water, HULK IS BRACING TWO MILES OF ROCK, BECAUSE HE HAS LEVERAGE.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
It is there, read it!

Is clear as water, HULK IS BRACING TWO MILES OF ROCK, BECAUSE HE HAS LEVERAGE.

How is it a straw? It's an argument directed at one Hulk's premier strength feats. How is that not related to a discussion where Hulk's strength will be matched up against Superman's.

Originally posted by Raisen


Nice Argument bro

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
It is there, read it!

Is clear as water, HULK IS BRACING TWO MILES OF ROCK, BECAUSE HE HAS LEVERAGE.


So a class 85 can brace a mountain? Why couldn't She Hulk do it? Also, its clear he is lifting.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/12259420/Hulk8.jpg.html

Originally posted by carver9
So BlackBolt overpowered Hulk? Scans.

Also, a calm Hulk held up a mountain twice the size of the Appalachians.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/12259408/Hulk4.jpg.html

http://img168.exs.cx/img168/3176/hulk40cw.jpg

Black Bolt's theme song...

HULK'S JUMP UP TO GET BEAT DOWN!

Originally posted by carver9
So a class 85 can brace a mountain? Why couldn't She Hulk do it? Also, its clear he is lifting.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/12259420/Hulk8.jpg.html

That is a retcon, give me the number please

Maybe because it says RIGHT there that she is STILL weak???

Maybe it was due to to beating/sucker blast/building falling on her head , that VOLCANA gave her and she was STILL WEAK because of it? (Secret wars #3)

Stated from DC Universe..

Superman is as strong as he needs to be and really has no upper limits...

No green rocks and He clears them all.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
That is a retcon, give me the number please

Maybe because it says RIGHT there that she is STILL weak???

Maybe it was due to to beating/sucker blast/building falling on her head , that VOLCANA gave her and she was STILL WEAK because of it? (Secret wars #3)

Wow. you are taking the "still weak" comment totally out of context, just to suit your agenda. The obvious implication was that she was weak in comparison to him. That's why Spiderman had words with the Hulk. You already know this yet you're skewing things to your advantage. it's sickening the kind of cherry picking, biasness, and distortion that occurs on these boards

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
That is a retcon, give me the number please

Maybe because it says RIGHT there that she is STILL weak???

Maybe it was due to to beating/sucker blast/building falling on her head , that VOLCANA gave her and she was STILL WEAK because of it? (Secret wars #3)

Hahahahaha...Hulk is calling her a weakling because she couldn't lift the mountain...not that she is weak.

Originally posted by carver9
Hahahahaha...Hulk is calling her a weakling because she couldn't lift the mountain...not that she is weak.

I do not know in this retcon, but on the original Secret wars

She was KO during the whole thing because VOLCANA kick her ass pretty badly.

Did you even knew VOLCANA beat her up pretty badly?

Let me SHOW you:

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Marvel%20Comics/th_SecretWars003-22_zpsdcfa2a62.jpg http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Marvel%20Comics/th_SecretWars004-04_zpsfc19d06f.jpg


Now let me ask you, do you think she was at PEAK when she try to lift two miles of rock OR was she still WEAK from the beating??? What do you think "STILL WEAK" means when you have this context???

Originally posted by Raisen
Wow. you are taking the "still weak" comment totally out of context, just to suit your agenda. The obvious implication was that she was weak in comparison to him. That's why Spiderman had words with the Hulk. You already know this yet you're skewing things to your advantage. it's sickening the kind of cherry picking, biasness, and distortion that occurs on these boards


He is VERY bias against the Hulk.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
I do not know in this retcon, but on the original Secret wars

She was KO during the whole thing because VOLCANA kick her ass pretty badly.

Did you even knew VOLCANA beat her up pretty badly?

Let me SHOW you:

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Marvel%20Comics/th_SecretWars003-22_zpsdcfa2a62.jpg http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Marvel%20Comics/th_SecretWars004-04_zpsfc19d06f.jpg


Now let me ask you, do you think she was at PEAK when she try to lift two miles of rock OR was she still WEAK from the beating??? What do you think?

Originally posted by Raisen
Wow. you are taking the "still weak" comment totally out of context, just to suit your agenda. The obvious implication was that she was weak in comparison to him. That's why Spiderman had words with the Hulk. You already know this yet you're skewing things to your advantage. it's sickening the kind of cherry picking, biasness, and distortion that occurs on these boards

lol

Do you guys really think Hulk can stand up to Superman?

Originally posted by carver9
He is VERY bias against the Hulk.

Not really carver, remember when I gave the win vs Thanos on a adamantium cage?

Originally posted by curryman
IIRC it was hours.

There's also Spider-man knocking him out, Samson being able to stalemate him for a long time/knock him out/contend physically for a long time. Iron Man knocking him out/fighting him, Abomination being way stronger in the beginning, teen Colossus fighting him for a long time, etc.

I don't see why Hulk fans need to cling to this desperate notion that Hulk does not only get stronger, but that he already is stronger than everybody else.

Furthermore, start off at "high herald strength" ? What is high herald strength? Because few of the people in any of the herald categories are equally strong. And the people who are put in high are normally put there on the grounds of being herald-level and then sometimes going off into the trans-tier, but OBVIOUSLY Hulk's base strength is not in the "passes into trans tier" since then it would no longer be his base!

His base is clearly hundreds of times higher than Sinestro's...who is a human yet in high herald. So Superman then? Arguably the strongest guy in the high herald category? Is that where he starts? Because if so, then people should say "Hulk's base is Superman's level" and debate that, instead of trying to pass some vague collective consensus based off of all of the characters in one category being around the same strength-level WHEN THEY ARE CLEARLY NOT
Yeah, I don't get it. Its mainly Thor fans though who pushes the idea of hulk as being on the same level as superman in the beginning and being stronger than him when he gets angry. See what does the premier hulk expert in MU says about a calm hulk's strength

http://img454.imageshack.us/img454/1613/samsonstrength0rz.jpg


Samson is class 75 BTW.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah, I don't get it. Its mainly Thor fans though who pushes the idea of hulk as being on the same level as superman in the beginning and being stronger than him when he gets angry. See what does the premier hulk expert in MU says about a calm hulk's strength

http://img454.imageshack.us/img454/1613/samsonstrength0rz.jpg


Samson is class 75 BTW.

of course you crawl out of your ****ing cave to cherry pick a scan from thirty years ago. i'm going to start my superman hearsay lowball scan collection tonight and make sure i post 37 consecutive pages of it tomorrow for you to cry and beat off to. now crawl back to your cave, if you get lost, remember to follow the slime trail you left when you came here