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who wins this battle in:

1. Sabers
2. All out


I didn't choose force because I think all would say Vader woudl win in a force battle. So... does Vader experience and more training allow him to defeat his old master in his prime? Or does Vader slower movement get him the same treatment Kenobi gave him last time?

Kenobi takes sabers. Vader takes all out, don't see why he couldn't get a simple force choke on Kenobi right at the start.

1. Kenobi
2. Vader

Originally posted by Jedi Mom
Kenobi takes sabers. Vader takes all out, don't see why he couldn't get a simple force choke on Kenobi right at the start.

If it were that easy Vader wouldn't have had such trouble with old Kenobi.

1. Kenobi
2. Kenobi

Vader never used the force in that fight.

Kenobi, imo.

Originally posted by Jedi Mom
Vader never used the force in that fight.

Cause he apparently couldn't get past Kenobi's force defenses. Even in ROTS, Anakin's TK only matched Kenobi's TK during their force push duel. And Anakin was stronger in ROTS. ROTS Kenobi takes both situations.

Originally posted by Vensai
Cause he apparently couldn't get past Kenobi's force defenses.
Proof? Either way obviously ANH Kenobi would've improved in the force.

Originally posted by Vensai

Vader's TK is if anything better than Dooku's. Dooku threw Kenobi like a ragdoll in their duel in RotS.

^

Originally posted by Jedi Mom
Proof? Either way obviously ANH Kenobi would've improved in the force.


Vader's TK is if anything better than Dooku's. Dooku threw Kenobi like a ragdoll in their duel in RotS.

If Vader could force pwn Kenobi he would have. Otherwise the saber fight was a waste of time. Dooku is no slouch in the force himself. He has rag dolled Anakin more than once. And ROTS Anakin was the peak of his power. After his injuries he was weaker than before, as stated in various sources like the novelisation.

Originally posted by Vensai
If Vader could force pwn Kenobi he would have. Otherwise the saber fight was a waste of time.
Doesn't matter anyway as this is RotS Kenobi, not ANH.

Originally posted by Vensai
Dooku is no slouch in the force himself. He has rag dolled Anakin more than once. And ROTS Anakin was the peak of his power. After his injuries he was weaker than before, as stated in various sources like the novelisation.
He might have been weaker but he was still a beast with the force, at least equal to Dooku. And Kenobi stands no chance against Dooku when the force is involved.

Originally posted by Jedi Mom
Doesn't matter anyway as this is RotS Kenobi, not ANH.


He might have been weaker but he was still a beast with the force, at least equal to Dooku. And Kenobi stands no chance against Dooku when the force is involved.

If anakin was stronger in the force than dooku than why does Dooku keep owning him with the force? Anakin got weaker after being Vader not stronger.

1. Vader>Anakin in the force.
2. Dooku never pwned Anakin in the force.

Originally posted by Jedi Mom
1. Vader>Anakin in the force.
2. Dooku never pwned Anakin in the force.

Vader was not overwhelmingly stronger than Anakin in the force. His ROTS self could topple huge statues and levitate huge chunks. And Dooku was always owned Anakin in the force. In AOTC and during their fight on Naboo, Dooku smacked him with TK and FL.

1. Yes he was. Choked a guy across the galaxy, deflecting blaster bolts, bringing down a temple?

2. You realise there are a difference between AotC and RotS Anakin?

Originally posted by Jedi Mom
1. Yes he was. Choked a guy across the galaxy, deflecting blaster bolts, bringing down a temple?

2. You realise there are a difference between AotC and RotS Anakin?

Anakin toppled a building in Mon Calmari and continuously schooled Ventress in a force battle even whe he was a padawan. Anyone competent Jedi or Sith can deflect blaster bolts with a saber. And Anakin can block bolts easily. TCW Anakin was hit badly with Dookus force attack in Crisis on Naboo. And name a time when Dooku has been force schooled by Anakin. I have never heard of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeCuEx-JYP0

Watch at about 2:30. Dooku smashes Anakin across the hall. He's up after 5 seconds. In contrary Kenobi was down after the same sort of attack.

Vader has crushed a cathedral in Darth Vader and the Lost Command, blocked/redirected lightning. The first feat puts him above Dooku imo. And Dooku disposed Kenobi with ease.

Originally posted by Jedi Mom
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeCuEx-JYP0

Watch at about 2:30. Dooku smashes Anakin across the hall. He's up after 5 seconds. In contrary Kenobi was down after the same sort of attack.

Vader has crushed a cathedral in Darth Vader and the Lost Command, blocked/redirected lightning. The first feat puts him above Dooku imo. And Dooku disposed Kenobi with ease.

So did Anakin smash Dooku? We're talking about Anakin/Vader and Dooku here. Anakin still got smashed and was unable to stop it. Though he did fight evenly with Dooku. Dooku has brought down structures too like here www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1ieRQ-4BB4.
Dooku has deflected lightning after grand master Yoda reflected it at him. How is Dookus force abilities that much weaker than Anakins?

Dooku is superior to RotS Anakin with the force. Lets just say Vader is Dooku's equal with the force (which he is atleast).

When Dooku smashed Anakin with the force: Anakin got up after 5sec
When Dooku smashed Kenobi with the force: Kenobi was unconscious

My point is Vader would be able to treat RotS Kenobi just like Dooku treated him, maybe even better.

Originally posted by Jedi Mom
Dooku is superior to RotS Anakin with the force. Lets just say Vader is Dooku's equal with the force (which he is atleast).

When Dooku smashed Anakin with the force: Anakin got up after 5sec
When Dooku smashed Kenobi with the force: Kenobi was unconscious

My point is Vader would be able to treat RotS Kenobi just like Dooku treated him, maybe even better.

In a force battle, Dooku would shock Vader with FL To death which he has no defense against due to his slow speed.
Anakin getting up is a toughness feat not a force feat.

Originally posted by Vensai
In a force battle, Dooku would shock Vader with FL To death which he has no defense against due to his slow speed.
Yeah, except his saber. And didn't he reflect Marek's lightning?

Originally posted by Vensai
Anakin getting up is a toughness feat not a force feat.
Call it what you want. Kenobi couldn't do it against Dooku, he won't be able to do it against Vader.

Originally posted by Jedi Mom
Yeah, except his saber. And didn't he reflect Marek's lightning?


Call it what you want. Kenobi couldn't do it against Dooku, he won't be able to do it against Vader.

I didn't know Vader deflected Mareks lightning. Good point. I haven't gotten that far in TFU.
Vader was bloodlusted when facing Kenobi. A weaker and out of shape Kenobi as of ANH. If Vader could have force owned Kenobi he would have gladly done so. Vader is weaker than Anakin plain and simple.

Feats>assumptions
Vader>Anakin in the force by feats

This is ridiculous. GL himself said that " We'd seen old men, young boys, and characters who were half-droid, but we'd never seen a Jedi in his prime." when talking about the prequels. vader and Ben were weaker than they were in their prime. Vader will not beat prime Kenobi when old Kenobi could fend off Vader. If GL is wrong, SW is doomed.

Wait wait. GL was specifically talking about the Lightsaber combat. He wasn't talking about Force TK or anything like that.

Yes numerous sources have ROTS Anakin being more powerful than Post-Suit Vader. But that doesn't mean his TK was superior.

The Force isn't just used for TK, it's used for all abilities related to Lightsaber Combat.

Dooku's TK was clearly greater than Anakin's (though he did a good job of tanking it in their last fight on Naboo). But still by ROTS it seems Skywalker is overall more powerful in the Force than Dooku.

Doesn't mean his TK is a match for Dooku's. If it was then Kenobi wouldn't have lasted a minute against Sith Anakin.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Wait wait. GL was specifically talking about the Lightsaber combat. He wasn't talking about Force TK or anything like that.

Yes numerous sources have ROTS Anakin being more powerful than Post-Suit Vader. But that doesn't mean his TK was superior.

The Force isn't just used for TK, it's used for all abilities related to Lightsaber Combat.

Dooku's TK was clearly greater than Anakin's (though he did a good job of tanking it in their last fight on Naboo). But still by ROTS it seems Skywalker is overall more powerful in the Force than Dooku.

Doesn't mean his TK is a match for Dooku's. If it was then Kenobi wouldn't have lasted a minute against Sith Anakin.

I see. I figured Anakin started using TK more often after becoming Vader to compensate for his new body.

Originally posted by Vensai
I see. I figured Anakin started using TK more often after becoming Vader to compensate for his new body.

Probably did. Add 20 years of Dark Side mastery and it's no surprise Suit Vader's TK was beastly.

But ROTS Anakin seems to be more powerful overall Imo. Just that he uses that power best through his Lightsaber prowess.

Not that his TK is bad or anything as he seems to be capable of tanking Dooku level TK attacks too.

Originally posted by Jedi Mom
Dooku is superior to RotS Anakin with the force. Lets just say Vader is Dooku's equal with the force (which he is atleast).

When Dooku smashed Anakin with the force: Anakin got up after 5sec
When Dooku smashed Kenobi with the force: Kenobi was unconscious

My point is Vader would be able to treat RotS Kenobi just like Dooku treated him, maybe even better.

No, incorrect. Vader's TK in ROTS is shown to be significant. He ripped down that statue in the Jedi temple and blew open the door. This is the same Vader who wasn't able to overpower Kenobi's force defenses. Yes this is mind****ed Vader, but to say he was mind****ed to the point that OT Vader will be able to force pwn him. I really doubt it.

Especially considering the implied equality between ANH Kenobi and ANH Vader.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
No, incorrect. Vader's TK in ROTS is shown to be significant. He ripped down that statue in the Jedi temple and blew open the door. This is the same Vader who wasn't able to overpower Kenobi's force defenses. Yes this is mind****ed Vader, but to say he was mind****ed to the point that OT Vader will be able to force pwn him. I really doubt it.

Especially considering the implied equality between ANH Kenobi and ANH Vader.


Darth Vader has destroyed an entire temple, ripped apart a building sized droid, disintegrated a stormtrooper, moved ships, and so on (not to mention his beasltly TK in TFU). If Dooku and Maul can casually overpower Obi Wan with TK, then so can Vader.

Vader has more impressive TK feats than dark side Anakin, and far more control.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Darth Vader has destroyed an entire temple, ripped apart a building sized droid, disintegrated a stormtrooper, moved ships, and so on (not to mention his beasltly TK in TFU). If Dooku and Maul can casually overpower Obi Wan with TK, then so can Vader.

Vader has more impressive TK feats than dark side Anakin, and far more control.

Vader could not overpower old Kenobi. And Kenobi was out of practice and weaker than ROTS. Vader even notes how his powers have gotten weak.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Darth Vader has destroyed an entire temple,

I thought he 'merely' shook it.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I thought he 'merely' shook it.

He could have taken out the keystone of the structure and caused it to fall.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Darth Vader has destroyed an entire temple, ripped apart a building sized droid, disintegrated a stormtrooper, moved ships, and so on (not to mention his beasltly TK in TFU). If Dooku and Maul can casually overpower Obi Wan with TK, then so can Vader.

Vader has more impressive TK feats than dark side Anakin, and far more control.

Nice sourcing of TFU one of the most exaggerated sources to date. I really have a hard time believing that if he could, Vader wouldn't have loved to force choked Kenobi like Dooku did to him.

Perhaps Old Kenobi>RotS Kenobi in the force? Yeah, seems very possible to me.

Originally posted by Jedi Mom
Perhaps Old Kenobi>RotS Kenobi in the force? Yeah, seems very possible to me.

Old Kenobi displayed no feats to suggest so. All evidence says he got weaker. Vader outright says "your powers are weak old man".

Vader all the way. Can't wait for Disney to remake the OT and show how much of a beast Vader is and always was.

In "Fightsaber" it was stated that during ANH, Vader was unable to breach the defenses of Kenobi's Soresu until Kenobi voluntarily yielded/allowed a Vader to strike him down-- and at that point it had been "many years" since Kenobi had been involved in a lightsaber battle. So if Vader couldn't even breach the defenses of a rusty Kenobi, then he certainly isn't touching Kenobi when his saber skills were at their peak(RotS.) So Kenobi definitely takes the saber battle.

Not sure about the all-out scenario. That era Vader never really used his force-powa in the midst of battle. /shrug

O_riginally posted by Nephthys
I thought he 'merely' shook it.


No, I think you're talking about the feat in Last of the Jedi series, when Vader force choked Malorum and his rage shook the jedi temple and crumbled a wall.

The feat I'm referring to came from a comic. (Sorry for the lack of sourcing)


O_riginally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Nice sourcing of TFU one of the most exaggerated sources to date.


No, the feats that I mentioned came from comics. I had, a while back, posted a link to a thread that had comic scans of most of the feats that I mentioned.


O_riginally posted by Mizukage Yoda
I really have a hard time believing that if he could, Vader wouldn't have loved to force choked Kenobi like Dooku did to him.


So you're saying just because he didn't, that he couldn't? Dooku didn't TK Obi Wan or Anakin when duelling them in AOTC, but that doesn't mean he couldn't.

All I'm saying is that Vader has more impressive TK feats than Anakin and far more control. And if Maul can casually TK Obi Wan, I'm not seeing why Vader couldn't.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66

The feat I'm referring to came from a comic. (Sorry for the lack of sourcing)
Which comic?





Could you repost them please.





That's because AOTC Dooku could tool them with zero effort if he used the force, he was enjoying himself. And he did use lightning against them both.



Maul did not casually TK Kenobi. And even when he did, Kenobi still won their duels.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Could you repost them please.


http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/darth-vader-vs-darth-krayt/609678/?page=3



Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
That's because AOTC Dooku could tool them with zero effort if he used the force, he was enjoying himself. And he did use lightning against them both.


I could be wrong, but I believe that the novel did imply that it took at least some effort for Dooku to best Anakin in the saber duel.

The point I'm trying to make is, that just because something does not happen, does not mean it can't happen. That's the logic Arhael uses. Vader's TK feats are beyond impressive, and they lead me to believe that he can overpower Kenobi with TK if he wanted to, especially if Maul can, unless we assume Maul is better than Vader in that area.


Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Maul did not casually TK Kenobi. And even when he did, Kenobi still won their duels.


Kenobi only bested Maul once. All their other confrontations ended with Maul either beating Obi Wan in lightsaber duels, or TKing him. Even when Kenobi was besting Maul, the fight still ended with Kenobi ragdolled and left buried.

When was Kenobi buried? I recall he got up seconds later after the brothers ran for it.

Originally posted by Vensai
When was Kenobi buried? I recall he got up seconds later after the brothers ran for it.


When Maul brought down the roof of the cave. Kenobi wasn't literally buried. Sorry, poor choice of wording.