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Count Nefaria- Classic

VS

World War Hulk

WWH eats him

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
WWH eats him

Originally posted by Mindset


This is CLASSIC Nefaria.

Who are you to doubt the Count?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
WWH eats him

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
WWH eats him

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
This is CLASSIC Nefaria.

Who are you to doubt the Count?

The Count was very powerful back in those days, maybe even more powerful than Savage Hulk, but the Hulk has gotten a lot more powerful since those days. Currently the Hulk would likely beat him.

Personally Id say Classic Nefaria was on par with WWHulk phyiscally, possibly even his superior (especially when adding in superspeed), but Nefaria was a bully with his powers, and WWHulk wouldnt be phased by that attitude at all. In the end Ill also go WWHulk, though only just, and it wont be an easy win at all.

Originally posted by DTM
Personally Id say Classic Nefaria was on par with WWHulk phyiscally, possibly even his superior (especially when adding in superspeed), but Nefaria was a bully with his powers, and WWHulk wouldnt be phased by that attitude at all. In the end Ill also go WWHulk, though only just, and it wont be an easy win at all.

Truth.

Nefaria was overrated.

WW Hulk destroys him.

Stalemate

Originally posted by Tony Stark
Stalemate Based on ?

Originally posted by DTM
Truth.

No it isn't.

Yep, it is.

Youll have to forgive me if I dont give full unbiased credit to someone with Hulk all over their page in a fight involving the Hulk. If you think WWHulk will demolish classic Nefaria, then you must be mixing him up with Count Chockula.

Originally posted by carver9
No it isn't.

Have you read Nefaria's appearances against the Avengers in the 70's and 80's? The Count was beating Thor and Wonder Man like children at the same time.

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Have you read Nefaria's appearances against the Avengers in the 70's and 80's? The Count was beating Thor and Wonder Man like children at the same time.

not forgetting the vision and Iron man at the same time.

WWH

Originally posted by guy222
WWH in the rematch

He'd still lose.

Hulk wins but the count will put up one hell of a fight, most likely give a better fight than anyone in the WWH arc. (aside from sentry and I guess dr.strange)

Originally posted by SevenShackles
Hulk wins but the count will put up one hell of a fight, most likely give a better fight than anyone in the WWH arc. (aside from sentry and I guess dr.strange)

Agreed.

What did WWH do to put him above Nefaria? Remind me as I don't recall him laying the smackdown on a team that Included Thor, Scarlet Witch, Wonderman, Iron Man, Vision, Captain America, Black Panther and Wasp, which Nefaria did. In fact he beat them up and went off to pick up chicks at one point.

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Have you read Nefaria's appearances against the Avengers in the 70's and 80's? The Count was beating Thor and Wonder Man like children at the same time.

Wonder Man, yeah, but Thor was holding his own.

As much as I want to say Nefaria stomps, to be fair Hulk could pretty much manhandle Iron Man, Wonder Man, or Iron Man too. And even Thor.

Originally posted by cdtm
Wonder Man, yeah, but Thor was holding his own.

As much as I want to say Nefaria stomps, to be fair Hulk could pretty much manhandle Iron Man, Wonder Man, or Iron Man too. And even Thor. and Scarlet Witch and Vision? Nefaria stunned Thor twice and others had to take Nefaria on whilst Thor recovered. In fact if Vision had not done his Sky drop, it was all over.

Originally posted by Anthony Stark
and Scarlet Witch and Vision? Nefaria stunned Thor twice and others had to take Nefaria on whilst Thor recovered. In fact if Vision had not done his Sky drop, it was all over.

How many times has Hulk taken on good, strong teams and given them problems?

And how many times have people said "Wanda could have ended this if she did X", but she does something stupid, or nothing at all?

I mean, the most she did was cause him pain, when she had a ton of ways she could have ended it, which is a staple of overpowered characters. And still, the team was holding their own and causing damage...

Originally posted by cdtm
How many times has Hulk taken on good, strong teams and given them problems?

And how many times have people said "Wanda could have ended this if she did X", but she does something stupid, or nothing at all?

I mean, the most she did was cause him pain, when she had a ton of ways she could have ended it, which is a staple of overpowered characters. And still, the team was holding their own and causing damage...

Not really at the end, he'd beaten them. That was why vision had to sky drop. Nefaria had beaten Thor twice and discovered he couln't lift his hammer. Ko'd Wondy twice and Iron Man twice, Cap had, had to give the shield away. He had toasted them.

Originally posted by Anthony Stark
Not really at the end, he'd beaten them. That was why vision had to sky drop. Nefaria had beaten Thor twice and discovered he couln't lift his hammer. Ko'd Wondy twice and Iron Man twice, Cap had, had to give the shield away. He had toasted them.

Fair play at the end Thor and Iron man had staggered him for Visions Sky drop. But he was getting up and the implication was he was fine.

Originally posted by cdtm
Wonder Man, yeah, but Thor was holding his own.

As much as I want to say Nefaria stomps, to be fair Hulk could pretty much manhandle Iron Man, Wonder Man, or Iron Man too. And even Thor.


Nefaria palmed a full on Mjolnir strike from Thor like it was nothing.

How much power do you think that took?

Originally posted by Anthony Stark
What did WWH do to put him above Nefaria? Remind me as I don't recall him laying the smackdown on a team that Included Thor, Scarlet Witch, Wonderman, Iron Man, Vision, Captain America, Black Panther and Wasp, which Nefaria did. In fact he beat them up and went off to pick up chicks at one point.

Nefaria lost that battle via KO. Also, the Hulk has given teams of Avengers fits. He battled Wonder Man, Vision, Iron man and the Scarlet Witch at the same time.

Originally posted by Dampyre
Nefaria lost that battle via KO.

Yup, Vision dropped on him from a few miles up at some ludicrous density. Hulk has been knocked out by Iron Man alone remember in a Savage state.

Originally posted by Anthony Stark
Yup, Vision dropped on him from a few miles up at some ludicrous density. Hulk has been knocked out by Iron Man alone remember in a Savage state.

Originally posted by Dampyre
Nefaria lost that battle via KO. Also, the Hulk has given teams of Avengers fits. He battled Wonder Man, Vision, Iron man and the Scarlet Witch at the same time.

Teams of Avengers yes, but not that level team of Avengers. Thor himself is a match for Hulk, add in Wonder Man, Vision, Iron Man, Capt America, Black Panther and Scarlet Witch, and I dont see Hulk doing so well against this team.

Originally posted by DTM
Teams of Avengers yes, but not that level team of Avengers. Thor himself is a match for Hulk, add in Wonder Man, Vision, Iron Man, Capt America, Black Panther and Scarlet Witch, and I dont see Hulk doing so well against this team.

Neither do I, not even WWH.

Originally posted by DTM
Teams of Avengers yes, but not that level team of Avengers. Thor himself is a match for Hulk, add in Wonder Man, Vision, Iron Man, Capt America, Black Panther and Scarlet Witch, and I dont see Hulk doing so well against this team.

Thor's been manhandled by Hulk many times.

And Wanda and Vision weren't exactly fighting at full capacity.. The rest of the team ranges from a non factor, to a minimal factor (Wonder Man and Iron Man aren't really in Thor's league as heavy hitters. Both Hulk and Thor could take them at the same time on a good day.)

Originally posted by Anthony Stark
Yup, Vision dropped on him from a few miles up at some ludicrous density. Hulk has been knocked out by Iron Man alone remember in a Savage state.

Yes, and he's also battled Iron man along with other Avenegrs all by himself. The Hulk has a very good record against Iron Man overall.

That KO was a sucker punch on a dazed and blinded Hulk anyway. Plus, Iron Man used up all his power and fell unconscious afterwards.

Originally posted by cdtm
Thor's been manhandled by Hulk many times.

And Wanda and Vision weren't exactly fighting at full capacity.. The rest of the team ranges from a non factor, to a minimal factor (Wonder Man and Iron Man aren't really in Thor's league as heavy hitters. Both Hulk and Thor could take them at the same time on a good day.)

Wonderman has beaten Abomination easily before..... Vision was fighting at full capacity, Nefaria had too much energy for him to be able to phase into his body.

Originally posted by cdtm
Thor's been manhandled by Hulk many times.

Eh, maybe, but Thors handled Hulk pretty good as well. Overall they are very evenly matched.

I will say in Hulks defence, I remember Avengers West Coast beating him with Namor, Herc, Iron Man and Wonderman on the team and I remember Wonderman fighting Hulk once alone in his own book.

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Nefaria palmed a full on Mjolnir strike from Thor like it was nothing.

How much power do you think that took? Doesn't matter. Hulk wins. Healing factor, intelligence, strength are too much for Nefaria.

Nefaria

WWH beats the shit out of the count

Originally posted by quanchi112
Doesn't matter. Hulk wins. Healing factor, intelligence, strength are too much for Nefaria.

Healing factor- Yes, but it won't matter while he is flattened.

Intelligence- Negligible

Strength- Negligible, I would argue that Nefaria is stronger than WWH at the start of the fight.

Now these factors.

Stamina- Nefaria is not going to tire before WWH does.

Speed- Nefaria has the advantage and the speedblitz will be hellacious!

When WWH turns to Worldbreaker after waking up THEN he will win against the Count.

Classic Nef beats the sh!t out of hulk.

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Healing factor- Yes, but it won't matter while he is flattened.

Intelligence- Negligible

Strength- Negligible, I would argue that Nefaria is stronger than WWH at the start of the fight.

Now these factors.

Stamina- Nefaria is not going to tire before WWH does.

Speed- Nefaria has the advantage and the speedblitz will be hellacious!

When WWH turns to Worldbreaker after waking up THEN he will win against the Count. So you agree the healing factor is in his advantage. Awesome.

Wrong. Hulk is combat tested.

Even if that were true Hulk has dynamic strength so it's a moot point even if I were t o give you that which I won't.

Yes, he is. Hulk gets stronger as the fight progresses not Nefa.

Who has he speedblitzed ? We argue what's in character not powersets.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Classic Nef beats the sh!t out of hulk. Wrong.

What people forget about Avengers 166 is the Count only got his powers the day before and beat up on a very strong Avengers line up including Thor, who even tried going esoteric on him with a vortex attack/bfr which Nefaria handled and then punched Thor in the choppers knocking him down for his trouble.

Originally posted by Anthony Stark
What people forget about Avengers 166 is the Count only got his powers the day before and beat up on a very strong Avengers line up including Thor, who even tried going esoteric on him with a vortex attack/bfr which Nefaria handled and then punched Thor in the choppers knocking him down for his trouble. So his lack of experience will definitely cost him here.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So his lack of experience will definitely cost him here.

Possibly or when Hulk hits him and he doesn't die, he might decide Hulk should fear him and lay down a can of whoopass like with Thor only with no other people around to protect him.

count would likely get too cocky and get caught or he'd see hulk was capable of fighting him evenly and he'd lose confidence and makybe get scared. cn's powerset might be enough, but his brain could be a problem. his speed would be a big key for him if he were to win this. i think he was def intended to be an avengers team challenger--that is pretty powerful, but wwh was seen as pretty much the same. tough call imo but i'd take hulk for a slight majority i think.

Originally posted by leonidas
count would likely get too cocky and get caught or he'd see hulk was capable of fighting him evenly and he'd lose confidence and makybe get scared. cn's powerset might be enough, but his brain could be a problem. his speed would be a big key for him if he were to win this. i think he was def intended to be an avengers team challenger--that is pretty powerful, but wwh was seen as pretty much the same. tough call imo but i'd take hulk for a slight majority i think. This 100%

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Healing factor- Yes, but it won't matter while he is flattened.

Intelligence- Negligible

Strength- Negligible, I would argue that Nefaria is stronger than WWH at the start of the fight.

Now these factors.

Stamina- Nefaria is not going to tire before WWH does.

Speed- Nefaria has the advantage and the speedblitz will be hellacious!

When WWH turns to Worldbreaker after waking up THEN he will win against the Count.

You forgot Durability, which does go to Nefaria (the guy had Thors thrown hammer bounce off his chest, and actually caught it mid-strike).

Originally posted by DTM
You forgot Durability, which does go to Nefaria (the guy had Thors thrown hammer bounce off his chest, and actually caught it mid-strike).

You are correct!

Nefaria crushes the Hulk!

Originally posted by Anthony Stark
Possibly or when Hulk hits him and he doesn't die, he might decide Hulk should fear him and lay down a can of whoopass like with Thor only with no other people around to protect him. WW Hulk wasn't scared of anything. That was a key plot point in the overall arc with regards to his mindset.

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Healing factor- Yes, but it won't matter while he is flattened.

Intelligence- Negligible

Strength- Negligible, I would argue that Nefaria is stronger than WWH at the start of the fight.

Now these factors.

Stamina- Nefaria is not going to tire before WWH does.

Speed- Nefaria has the advantage and the speedblitz will be hellacious!

When WWH turns to Worldbreaker after waking up THEN he will win against the Count.


You're wrong about WW Hulk. He could go from High Herald strength, to near Sky Father in a moment. This is not the same Hulk of the olden days. The Hulk was holding back the entire time. If you re-read WW Hulk you will see that the entire time that he sat in that stadium he was going over how he should get his revenge on those that exiled him in the first place. He could have just gone World Breaker from the very beginning, but there were innocents that would have lost their lives, and this was a burden that he would not have wanted to bare.

To recap, all you need to do is look at the end of the story where he begs for someone to stop him. This was the Hulk holding back, and even then he nearly sunk the Eastern Coastline. Nefaria would be wrung out like a pair of wet socks if the fight were to take place on some deserted battle world like the Dark Dimension. The two aren't in the same class in terms of power.

Originally posted by Stoic
You're wrong about WW Hulk. He could go from High Herald strength, to near Sky Father in a moment. This is not the same Hulk of the olden days. The Hulk was holding back the entire time. If you re-read WW Hulk you will see that the entire time that he sat in that stadium he was going over how he should get his revenge on those that exiled him in the first place. He could have just gone World Breaker from the very beginning, but there were innocents that would have lost their lives, and this was a burden that he would not have wanted to bare.

To recap, all you need to do is look at the end of the story where he begs for someone to stop him. This was the Hulk holding back, and even then he nearly sunk the Eastern Coastline. Nefaria would be wrung out like a pair of wet socks if the fight were to take place on some deserted battle world like the Dark Dimension. The two aren't in the same class in terms of power.

Your points are well appreciated but for the purposes of this thread, Word War Hulk is restricted from entering Worldbreaker mode in this fight. Given said limitation Classic Nefaria is well within range of World War Hulk.

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Your points are well appreciated but for the purposes of this thread, Word War Hulk is restricted from entering Worldbreaker mode in this fight. Given said limitation Classic Nefaria is well within range of World War Hulk. So you agree WB mode stomps Nefaria ?

Originally posted by quanchi112
So you agree WB mode stomps Nefaria ?

I do.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So you agree WB mode stomps Nefaria ?

Nefaria doesn't get "Stomped" as he is royalty BUT he goes down nonetheless.

Madame Masque's Daddy wins

Originally posted by quanchi112
So you agree WB mode stomps Nefaria ?

No way!

Savage Hulk stomps. WB spite stomps.

Savage Hulk is an Avengers enemy. He's done what Nef has done with interest. WWh is a different beast. Don't see how Nef wins this. He gets overpowered and he sure as hell isn't koing this version of Hulk unless someone have some solid proof that he can. WWH was withstand Herald+ attacks in stride and was still fighting at 100%. Also, hahahahaha at Hulk fearing Nef...they threw a mutant at him with fear induced powers and it didn't do a thing to Hulk but piss him off. Good try though.

Count Nefaria ftw.

Could match Hulk's strength by amping if he wanted to go toe-to-toe, and if not, he's just too versatile.

Not much different than a Superman vs Hulk thread.

They'd both start pretty equal in strength. Hulk would only go up from there though, and its hard to see Nefaria putting Hulk down permanently even if he'd put up a good fight.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Count Nefaria ftw.

Could match Hulk's strength by amping if he wanted to go toe-to-toe, and if not, he's just too versatile.

Not much different than a Superman vs Hulk thread. He lacks experience, intelligence, the healing factor and doesn't have dynamic strength to keep up with the Hulk.

Nef's fight with The Avengers IS impressive, I'll admit.

But that doesn't explain why a lot of his fans (Around the web, not specifically on this board) think he's dominate characters like World War III Black Adam or even post crisis Superman. I've even seen some fans call him "Evil pre crisis Superman", and I'm only hoping they mean because he was created side by side with PC Superman, and not because he has PC Superman level feats.. He definitely does not, imo.

Does the fan loyalty come purely from his showings and love of the character, or is there some "Kirby love" thrown in there?

I could understand if it were partial Kirby loyalty, being a big New Gods fan myself..

Originally posted by quanchi112
He lacks experience, intelligence, the healing factor and doesn't have dynamic strength to keep up with the Hulk.

Experience and intelligence can only take you so far in an actual fight. Skill and physicality trump experience and intelligence. Nefaria can match Hulk in strength and durability. When you take his powers into account, it's like pitting someone against someone in car and armed with a gun.

Hulk can heal as many times as he'd like, but he'd only get his ass kicked again and again. Still a win for Nefaria.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Experience and intelligence can only take you so far in an actual fight. Skill and physicality trump experience and intelligence. Nefaria can match Hulk in strength and durability. When you take his powers into account, it's like pitting someone against someone in car and armed with a gun.

Hulk can heal as many times as he'd like, but he'd only get his ass kicked again and again. Still a win for Nefaria. Hulk has all of these in his favor. Nefaria wasn't experienced or a highly trained fighter. No, he can't match someone with dynamic strength in the strength category.

Based on what ? Hulk has too many advantages to lose here.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Hulk has all of these in his favor. Nefaria wasn't experienced or a highly trained fighter. No, he can't match someone with dynamic strength in the strength category.

Based on what ? Hulk has too many advantages to lose here.

Hulk has experience, but don't try to tell me he is a highly trained fighter as if he were Captain America, Wolverine, or Daredevil. Hulk is first and foremost, a brawler.

What advantages? He's really strong and can get stronger? He can heal?

As far as I'm aware, Nefaria is pretty goddamned strong himself, and extremely durable to the point where there isn't any need to heal, and if he needed to, he could anyhow.

On top of that, he can fly, shoot bolts of energy, and even create ionic energy constructs.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Experience and intelligence can only take you so far in an actual fight. Skill and physicality trump experience and intelligence. Nefaria can match Hulk in strength and durability. When you take his powers into account, it's like pitting someone against someone in car and armed with a gun.

Hulk can heal as many times as he'd like, but he'd only get his ass kicked again and again. Still a win for Nefaria.


Lol at this. Who would win, Surfer or Doomsday?

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Hulk has experience, but don't try to tell me he is a highly trained fighter as if he were Captain America, Wolverine, or Daredevil. Hulk is first and foremost, a brawler.

What advantages? He's really strong and can get stronger? He can heal?

As far as I'm aware, Nefaria is pretty goddamned strong himself, and extremely durable to the point where there isn't any need to heal, and if he needed to, he could anyhow.

On top of that, he can fly, shoot bolts of energy, and even create ionic energy constructs. He's trained in the art of brawling through experience. I never said he had skill even close to Thor/Cap.

Nefaria doesn't have dynamic strength. Sorry. Hulk gets a hold of him and smashes him. It's worked very well for him his whole career.

Stalemate until Hulk eats him.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol at this. Who would win, Surfer or Doomsday? Surfer.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol at this. Who would win, Surfer or Doomsday?

Surfer, and easily if he wasn't such a pacifist.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He's trained in the art of brawling through experience. I never said he had skill even close to Thor/Cap.

Nefaria doesn't have dynamic strength. Sorry. Hulk gets a hold of him and smashes him. It's worked very well for him his whole career.

So then his brawling experience is a moot point since he's still just a brawler, and not an elite fighter... Gotcha.

How did that "get a hold of him and smashes him" thing work against a depowered Juggernaut during World War Hulk vs X-Men? 'Cause it sure looked to me like Juggernaut had the upperhand until he was distracted by Xavier and tripped by Hulk.

Nefaria might as well be cosmic Classic Juggernaut, complete with flight and energy projection.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Surfer, and easily if he wasn't such a pacifist.



So then his brawling experience is a moot point since he's still just a brawler, and not an elite fighter... Gotcha.

How did that "get a hold of him and smashes him" thing work against a depowered Juggernaut during World War Hulk vs X-Men? 'Cause it sure looked to me like Juggernaut had the upperhand until he was distracted by Xavier and tripped by Hulk.

Nefaria might as well be cosmic Classic Juggernaut, complete with flight and energy projection. You can have a huge edge in brawling experience. LOL. Huge edge to Hulk.

Hulk beat him up once. The second time he got a hold of him he easily bfr'fd him. 2 wins against one guy in the same story. Impressive.

Nef loses to Juggs as well. The poor guy can't catch A BREAK.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol

Nefaria might as well be cosmic Classic Juggernaut, complete with flight and energy projection.


Nefaria was really, really durable... But attacks were still having an effect. and he was still knocked out.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You can have a huge edge in brawling experience. LOL. Huge edge to Hulk.

Hulk beat him up once. The second time he got a hold of him he easily bfr'fd him. 2 wins against one guy in the same story. Impressive.

Nef loses to Juggs as well. The poor guy can't catch A BREAK.

Again, you're acting like this is an elite fighter against a novice. It's not. Nefaria's no elite fighter either, but he knows enough to negate any slight skill advantage Hulk would have.

WWH beat Rhino-Juggernaut. WOW.

And then he got his ass kicked by a partially restored Juggernaut before Xavier distracted him and allowed Hulk the opportunity to trip and shove him aside before getting as far away from there as possible. Very impressive indeed.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Surfer, and easily if he wasn't such a pacifist.



So then his brawling experience is a moot point since he's still just a brawler, and not an elite fighter... Gotcha.

How did that "get a hold of him and smashes him" thing work against a depowered Juggernaut during World War Hulk vs X-Men? 'Cause it sure looked to me like Juggernaut had the upperhand until he was distracted by Xavier and tripped by Hulk.

Nefaria might as well be cosmic Classic Juggernaut, complete with flight and energy projection. nefaria doesnt have infinite momentum or the inertia cancelling spell or jug's limitless damage soak. that was the second time hulk exploited the way marko's powers function to beat him. he is a better fighter and cain is no slouch either.

Originally posted by 753
nefaria doesnt have infinite momentum or the inertia cancelling spell or jug's limitless damage soak. that was the second time hulk exploited the way marko's powers function to beat him. he is a better fighter and cain is no slouch either.
Yeah, your opinion seems unbiased.

Nefaria wouldn't need the inertia cancelling or the damage soak, as he's plenty strong and his invulnerability is among the best on Marvel Earth.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Surfer, and easily if he wasn't such a pacifist.



So then his brawling experience is a moot point since he's still just a brawler, and not an elite fighter... Gotcha.

How did that "get a hold of him and smashes him" thing work against a depowered Juggernaut during World War Hulk vs X-Men? 'Cause it sure looked to me like Juggernaut had the upperhand until he was distracted by Xavier and tripped by Hulk.

Nefaria might as well be cosmic Classic Juggernaut, complete with flight and energy projection.

Are you very familiar with the Hulk's history, and why it was possible for Nefaria to contend with the Savage Hulk? It's the same reason why he would not be able to contend with WW Hulk. Did you read WW Hulk? If so you will notice that he did not take long to ramp up in power as he did as the Savage Hulk. This was all explained during the Planet Hulk saga. If you didn't read that, perhaps you should, and you will realize why Nefaria wouldn't be able to contend with WW Hulk for long if he didn't have to hold back.

He could have done what he did in the Dark Dimension on Earth, but he didn't because of the innocent lives at stake. Nefaria would lose pretty badly here.

Okay doke, gathered up some of Nefaria's highlights from his first fight with the Avengers 165 and 166:


Here's where he goes at it with Wonder Man:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/CDTM3000/Avengers165_03b_zps66653f04.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/CDTM3000/Avengers165_05a_zps02316754.jpg

It's impressive, although I put WM below Iron Man personally.

And here's the tail end of Shellheads 1 vs 1, after he stops holding back and taps into overdrive:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/CDTM3000/Avengers165_15b_zpsda7d27a1.jpg

His fight with Thor, from Avengers 166:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/CDTM3000/Avengers166_03a_zps4aacb988.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/CDTM3000/Avengers166_03b_zps3022ce1d.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/CDTM3000/Avengers166_05a_zps48043b41.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/CDTM3000/Avengers166_05b_zps6a57463f.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/CDTM3000/Avengers166_07b_zps6c0f3f8f.jpg



And finally, the team dogpile:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/CDTM3000/Avengers166_13b_zpsad48c244.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/CDTM3000/Avengers166_15a_zps6b14305e.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/CDTM3000/Avengers166_15b_zps70e3454f.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/CDTM3000/Avengers166_17a_zpsd16756b3.jpg

Originally posted by Stoic
He could have done what he did in the Dark Dimension on Earth, but he didn't because of the innocent lives at stake. He would have to be in the DD and there would have to be a wish machine aiding him.


Nefaria for the win.

Originally posted by Horrificus
He would have to be in the DD and there would have to be a wish machine aiding him.


Nefaria for the win.


What wish was made for him to destroy a planet, Mindless Ones, Heralds, and moons with a punch. Scan please.

Nefaria does well against The Avengers, but that's a group of heroes holding back. Thor always holds back when he's on earth.

Hulk on the other hand does not.

I still think that Nefaria would win given that he starts out a lot stronger, but it would not surprise me if the Hulk grab a couple of wins off of him.

I bet Thor could have taken him on his own, if he was serious about it.

Originally posted by Horrificus
He would have to be in the DD and there would have to be a wish machine aiding him.


Nefaria for the win.


1. Not insulting you or anything, but you have to re-read the comic. The wish had no effect on the Hulk's performance. He could have done that in Nevada. This was before he ever went into the Dark Dimension.

2. The punch that Simon gave Nefaria visibly stunned him, this is not something that would even register with the Hulk in all all out battle that he could do anything without reprisals type of match. The Hulk would lay Nefaria out. Or Nefaria would run when he realized that none of his best punches were doing any damage to the Hulk at levels that he just didn't care anymore about hurting innocent civilians.

Originally posted by cdtm
I bet Thor could have taken him on his own, if he was serious about it.

good point.

Originally posted by curryman
Nefaria does well against The Avengers, but that's a group of heroes holding back. Thor always holds back when he's on earth.

Hulk on the other hand does not.

I still think that Nefaria would win given that he starts out a lot stronger, but it would not surprise me if the Hulk grab a couple of wins off of him.

You have no idea what you're saying. Bruce always holds back, or things would get way out of control. The Hulk isn't a villain, nor has he ever been portrayed that way.

Originally posted by Stoic
You have no idea what you're saying. Bruce always holds back, or things would get way out of control. The Hulk isn't a villain, nor has he ever been portrayed that way.

He has been portrayed as a villain many times...

Nor do you need to be a villain to stop holding back.

You have no idea what you're saying.

Originally posted by curryman
Nefaria does well against The Avengers, but that's a group of heroes holding back. Thor always holds back when he's on earth.

Hulk on the other hand does not.

I still think that Nefaria would win given that he starts out a lot stronger, but it would not surprise me if the Hulk grab a couple of wins off of him. Based off of what is nefaria stronger ?

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Again, you're acting like this is an elite fighter against a novice. It's not. Nefaria's no elite fighter either, but he knows enough to negate any slight skill advantage Hulk would have.

WWH beat Rhino-Juggernaut. WOW.

And then he got his ass kicked by a partially restored Juggernaut before Xavier distracted him and allowed Hulk the opportunity to trip and shove him aside before getting as far away from there as possible. Very impressive indeed. No, he clearly does not. Hulk's been battled tested whereas Nefaria was a noob. The scans also show he's in awe of Thor's power during the fight. LOL.

WW Hulk defeated Juggs depowered and at full power. This is right after he went through the mutants as well. Awesome showing. A guy in awe of Thor's power isn't beating a battle tested Hulk. Sorry.

Originally posted by carver9
What wish was made for him to destroy a planet, Mindless Ones, Heralds, and moons with a punch. Scan please.

Originally posted by Stoic
1. Not insulting you or anything, but you have to re-read the comic. The wish had no effect on the Hulk's performance. He could have done that in Nevada. This was before he ever went into the Dark Dimension.

OK guys, I will take another look. No problem.


Originally posted by Stoic
2. The punch that Simon gave Nefaria visibly stunned him, this is not something that would even register with the Hulk in all all out battle that he could do anything without reprisals type of match. The Hulk would lay Nefaria out. Or Nefaria would run when he realized that none of his best punches were doing any damage to the Hulk at levels that he just didn't care anymore about hurting innocent civilians.

Well, remember that Simon, back then, was being hyped for a future as one of the strongest characters out there. He was shown to have top durability and Mjolnir-level punches. Classic Wonder Man could definitely hurt any incarnation of Hulk.

Also, and most importantly, Simon was kind of nuts back then and was not exactly wrapped tight enough to hold back. He was a much more interesting character and, in a lot of ways, much more dangerous than he is now. He was one of the earliest characters to be "Mentally Unstable".

Originally posted by Horrificus
OK guys, I will take another look. No problem.


Well, remember that Simon, back then, was being hyped for a future as one of the strongest characters out there. He was shown to have top durability and Mjolnir-level punches. Classic Wonder Man could definitely hurt any incarnation of Hulk.

Also, and most importantly, Simon was kind of nuts back then and was not exactly wrapped tight enough to hold back. He was a much more interesting character and, in a lot of ways, much more dangerous than he is now. He was one of the earliest characters to be "Mentally Unstable".

Classic Wonder Man was high herald in terms of strength!

Yes, I said it!

Originally posted by Horrificus


Well, remember that Simon, back then, was being hyped for a future as one of the strongest characters out there. He was shown to have top durability and Mjolnir-level punches.

That was Avengers 9. wasn't it?

His punches were called Mjolnir level, yet the captions also said the best his hardest punch could do is knock Thor off his feet, and not really hurt him. (And that's on a sucker punch.)

Originally posted by Horrificus
OK guys, I will take another look. No problem.


Well, remember that Simon, back then, was being hyped for a future as one of the strongest characters out there. He was shown to have top durability and Mjolnir-level punches. Classic Wonder Man could definitely hurt any incarnation of Hulk.

Also, and most importantly, Simon was kind of nuts back then and was not exactly wrapped tight enough to hold back. He was a much more interesting character and, in a lot of ways, much more dangerous than he is now. He was one of the earliest characters to be "Mentally Unstable".

Back then Simon couldn't lift Thor's weight in the gym while training.

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Classic Wonder Man was high herald in terms of strength!

Yes, I said it!

No he wasn't, he was always just slightly stronger than the Thing.

Classic Wonder-Man was most definitely closer to Thor/Hulk than Thing. He was right between Thor/Hulk and Namor. Basically the Wonder Woman version of Marvel.

During the Englehart, West Coast, and solo series era, with the whole mental blocks shit, I think he was temporarily on par with Thor/Hulk, but that didn't last long.

Originally posted by cdtm
His punches were called Mjolnir level, yet the captions also said the best his hardest punch could do is knock Thor off his feet, and not really hurt him. (And that's on a sucker punch.)

The thing is, on average, Mjolnir is just a third fist for Thor. It makes no sense, and Mjolnir comes off looking like a real shitty hammer, but that's just the way it is.

There's no real other option for writers. For a very long time, Thor wasn't just the most powerful hero in Marvel, he was arguably the strongest (Contesting the Hulk for the number one position), there was no real way to have him be on that level yet possess a realistic hammer weapon.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
The thing is, on average, Mjolnir is just a third fist for Thor. It makes no sense, and Mjolnir comes off looking like a real shitty hammer, but that's just the way it is.

There's no real other option for writers. For a very long time, Thor wasn't just the most powerful hero in Marvel, he was arguably the strongest (Contesting the Hulk for the number one position), there was no real way to have him be on that level yet possess a realistic hammer weapon.
You can repeat mjolnir=thor's fist for some more years if you like. Maybe someone would be foolish enough to believe that after so much repetition.

Nefaria lacks the experience to exploit his powers and He was dying on the arc.

If We put this same inexperienced Nefaria vs WWH, Hulk could win more often than not after a very good battle.

Nefaria is such a noob with his power that he will probably let WWH to take a free shots at him while smiling like Sentry did.

Originally posted by abhilegend
You can repeat mjolnir=thor's fist for some more years if you like. Maybe someone would be foolish enough to believe that after so much repetition.

I'm not making this up. Sit down and read through Thor, if you think my opinion is something I made up out of thin air, you'd be wrong.

Energy charged Mjolnir throws > energy charged Mjolnir blows > Mjolnir Throws/Blows > Mjolnir Blows on average = Thor's fists

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
The thing is, on average, Mjolnir is just a third fist for Thor. It makes no sense, and Mjolnir comes off looking like a real shitty hammer, but that's just the way it is.

There's no real other option for writers. For a very long time, Thor wasn't just the most powerful hero in Marvel, he was arguably the strongest (Contesting the Hulk for the number one position), there was no real way to have him be on that level yet possess a realistic hammer weapon.

So what do you think of Nefaria's chances here?

Personally, I think if Thor and Nef continued to fight 1 vs 1, it would have looked a lot differently then their first round.. How many times has a heavy hitter looked like a scrub, until they started taking the fight more seriously?

And Shellhead did hold his own with him for a bit. Think Thor (Or Hulk) would fare any worse then Nefaria did, in a pure h2h confrontation with IM on overdrive?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I'm not making this up. Sit down and read through Thor, if you think my opinion is something I made up out of thin air, you'd be wrong.

Energy charged Mjolnir throws > energy charged Mjolnir blows > Mjolnir Throws/Blows > Mjolnir Blows on average = Thor's fists
You think, you're the only guy who's read on thor? If you search the entire history of Thor, there would be at most one or two references of mjolnir hitting as hard as thor and possibly none in the last twenty years. Its just not logical even by comic book logic.

Like I said, repeat that for some more years. Someone might be actually foolish enough to believe that.

Originally posted by Stoic
Back then Simon couldn't lift Thor's weight in the gym while training.



No he wasn't, he was always just slightly stronger than the Thing.

You're wrong.

Simon nearly killed Ben and had him scrambling in their TWO IN ONE fight. One particular scene has Simon casually tossing a weight that the Thing could barely handle.

Neither Ben or Simon were ever in the High Herald strength bracket. Simon was always mid level, while Ben was low to mid. Thor on the other hand was always High to Trans depending on the story.

If you are saying that Nefaria of classic days is as strong as WW Hulk you are wrong. During the WW Hulk saga Bruce held back the entire time as on panel evidence suggests. We see this during his escapade in the Dark Dimension. So if the two of them were to battle it out in a neutral zone, where there were no innocent bystanders at risk of losing their lives, the Hulk would go WORLD BREAKER on him and absolutely dominate his ass. Do you agree with this assessment? Yes or No?

Simon was always listed as Class95 Strength, just shy of the Class100s Hulk, Thor, Hercules, whereas Thing was Class85, in the realm of She Hulk, Colossus, Titania. So Wonder Man was (and probably still is) definately in the level closer to Thor than Thing.

Originally posted by DTM
Simon was always listed as Class95 Strength, just shy of the Class100s Hulk, Thor, Hercules, whereas Thing was Class85, in the realm of She Hulk, Colossus, Titania. So Wonder Man was (and probably still is) definately in the level closer to Thor than Thing.


I forgot which Mighty Avengers comic issue it was, but Simon attempted to lift Thor's weight in the gym, and he was very uncomfortable with. Thus he failed at completing the full reps.

I know that Ben was never as strong as Simon, I merely said that he was closer to Ben level of strength than he was to Thor's. But whatever. If we were to go back and look at Simons performance during WW Hulk, he was easily defeated by Korg. Do you remember this?

Uuuummm, WWH doesnt need to go World Breaker to be stronger than Nef. WWH held a planet together twice the size of Earth...threw mountains, nearly destroyed a city while fist cuffing. The strength between the two isn't even debatable. This doesn't include WWH shaking Earth while fighting Sakaar, punching two beings that was the height of a skyscraper out of orbit along with part of the city. Knocking an amped Loeb Rulk out with a thunder clap. An empowered Zeus had to pound on WWH to take him out...WWH wins.

I think Marvel always intended Wonder Man to be just a tad below Class 100 (he was the only character Ive ever seen listed with Class 95 Strength back in the day), so I think hes always been more a Thor/Herc level being strengthwise than Thing or She Hulk.

My God, Carver...WWH has done more than enough to be badass without trying to turn the Zeus fight into a feat.

Originally posted by carver9
Uuuummm, WWH doesnt need to go World Breaker to be stronger than Nef. WWH held a planet together twice the size of Earth...threw mountains, nearly destroyed a city while fist cuffing. The strength between the two isn't even debatable. This doesn't include WWH shaking Earth while fighting Sakaar, punching two beings that was the height of a skyscraper out of orbit along with part of the city. Knocking an amped Loeb Rulk out with a thunder clap. An empowered Zeus had to pound on WWH to take him out...WWH stomps.

Ill support WWHulk to win here (I did post as such in Page 1 here), but to think its a stomp, against a guy that took on and nearly defeated a Top Level Avengers lineup, just doesnt make any sense to me. Zero.

edit

Even if you think Hulk wins, you can't seriously think it's a stomp.

lol quite late with the edit.

Originally posted by Damborgson
My God, Carver...WWH has done more than enough to be badass without trying to turn the Zeus fight into a feat.

What's wrong with what I said about Zeus?

Originally posted by -Pr-
Even if you think Hulk wins, you can't seriously think it's a stomp.

lol quite late with the edit.


Naah, not a stomp (that post was out of just a liiiiiillll bit of anger) but I would give him the majority.

I am going to have to read a few stories over again before the weekend, because I am seeing a lot of posts with "facts" that do not ring true, according to memory. Lots of bs, exaggerations and flat-out lies.

We will see.

Truth be told, if it werent for vast inexperience Nefaria had with his power against the Avengers, he probably would have beaten them, and to me, would beat WWHulk as well.

Originally posted by DTM
Truth be told, if it werent for vast inexperience Nefaria had with his power against the Avengers, he probably would have beaten them, and to me, would beat WWHulk as well.

If you are basing your judgment on Nef fights against the Avengers then that should give you more reason on the Hulk winning. The Hulk showing against the Avengers is better imo.

Originally posted by carver9
Naah, not a stomp (that post was out of just a liiiiiillll bit of anger) but I would give him the majority.

You must be angry a lot, then.

Originally posted by Horrificus
I am going to have to read a few stories over again before the weekend, because I am seeing a lot of posts with "facts" that do not ring true, according to memory. Lots of bs, exaggerations and flat-out lies.

We will see.

Yeah, nothing beats first hand reading.

But if you want more scans than what I've posted, just ask.

I have his Thunderboilts showings too.

Originally posted by carver9
If you are basing your judgment on Nef fights against the Avengers then that should give you more reason on the Hulk winning. The Hulk showing against the Avengers is better imo.

Id pick that team of Avengers over WWHulk, and I think I did in the other thread that had that same fight.

Thor vs. WWHulk is a Very Close match, adding in Iron Man, Wonder Man, Capt America, Vision, Scarlet Witch and Black Panther, only seals the deal for me.

Originally posted by -Pr-
You must be angry a lot, then.

you just can't let me have the last word can you.? OMG

Originally posted by DTM
Id pick that team of Avengers over WWHulk, and I think I did in the other thread that had that same fight.

Thor vs. WWHulk is a Very Close match, adding in Iron Man, Wonder Man, Capt America, Vision, Scarlet Witch and Black Panther, only seals the deal for me.

Don't know why when Hulk has done better against the Avengers than Nef.

It's your opinion on Thor and WWH...its your opinion on WWH vs the team as well.

Yep, my opinion, just as what youre saying is your opinion.

And yes Hulk has fought teams of Avengers before, but not THAT level of Avengers team.

Originally posted by DTM
Yep, my opinion, just as what youre saying is your opinion.

And yes Hulk has fought teams of Avengers before, but not THAT level of Avengers team.

I know he didn't...he fought a much more powerful line up. Lol.

Namor, Hercules, Ironman, Wonderman.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Fights%20A-E/HulkvsAvengers40.jpg

Or we can use this fight.

She Hulk, Namor, Wonderman, Vision, Ironman, Captain America, Captain Marvel, Hercules, BN...etc, etc...

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Fights%20A-E/HulkvsAvengers47.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Fights%20A-E/HulkvsAvengers48.jpg

Originally posted by carver9
you just can't let me have the last word can you.? OMG

where's the fun in that.

tell you what: I can't sleep and need something to watch. suggest a good movie to me, and i'll be out for the night.

Ironman, Vision, Ionic Wonderman, Wanda.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Fights%20A-E/HulkvsAvengers71.jpg

"The monster has the power to match and even exceed their power" (Hulk tanks an combined attack from all of them).

Originally posted by -Pr-
where's the fun in that.

tell you what: I can't sleep and need something to watch. suggest a good movie to me, and i'll be out for the night.

Netflix or Redbox? Action, horror, or comedy?

Originally posted by carver9
I know he didn't...he fought a much more powerful line up. Lol.

Namor, Hercules, Ironman, Wonderman.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Fights%20A-E/HulkvsAvengers40.jpg

Or we can use this fight.

She Hulk, Namor, Wonderman, Vision, Ironman, Captain America, Captain Marvel, Hercules, BN...etc, etc...

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Fights%20A-E/HulkvsAvengers47.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Fights%20A-E/HulkvsAvengers48.jpg

Yep, am familiar with both fights, IMO neither of those teams is the equal to Nefarias lineup (Thor holds ALOT of weight, neither of those teams have them), and Hulk didnt win either of those fights to boot. Not to mention, the Avengerrs in both stories were trying to contain him, not kill him, Nefaria wont take things nearly so lightly against him. So yep, Team Level Avengers trumps Hulk, even WWHulk, to me.

Originally posted by DTM
Yep, am familiar with both fights, IMO neither of those teams is the equal to Nefarias lineup (Thor holds ALOT of weight, neither of those teams have them), and Hulk didnt win either of those fights to boot. Not to mention, the Avengerrs in both stories were trying to contain him, not kill him, Nefaria wont take things nearly so lightly against him. So yep, Team Level Avengers trumps Hulk, even WWHulk, to me.


Uuuummm, that's the same Herc that matched Thor in a fight. That team would merk the line up you voted against Hulk on. Just admit when you are wrong bro.

Lol...in the last scan I post, it states they were going to take Hulk out any way possible (even said kill him).

Provide proof that the avengers tried to kill Nef. Scans. Nef even said Ironman (lol) was a major threat.

Herc is close to Thor, true, but ask anyone here, Herc vs. Thor, Thor takes it virtually every time. And I didnt say The Avengers were trying to kill Nefaria, I said Nefaria wouldnt hold back in fighting Hulk, or take any issues with killing him (as the Avengers would, and did, hence their clear holding back against him, especially in the second set of links you posted). And again, Hulk didnt win either of the fights you posted, none of his opponents was even knocked out.

And Sheesh already, what is with you and quanchi, if its not agreeing with your opinion, its Wrong. Learn to accept others opinions already. Clearly youre a Hulk Fanboy, so sorry if I dont look at your opinions completely unbiased, especially since I myself am very familiar with these events as well. I was ejoying debating with you man, but with that idiotic Just Admit That Youre Wrong comment just popped you into the Annoying As Hell quanchi level, and thats rrally too bad.

Originally posted by carver9
Netflix or Redbox? Action, horror, or comedy?

Internet. It's not finding a movie, it's deciding what movie. I just need something to pass the time.

@DTM...

Nothing in those scans was stated as them holding back, it said the opposite.

Of course Thor would get the majority against Herc and that's due to versatility but when they both "fought in character", Thor almost got choked to sleep and almost lost if he didn't conjure lightning. The fight was close.

Again, why bring up the Avengers (that said they were going to kill Hulk) holding back when you can't even provide proof that they were going all out against Nef? What's the point buddy? Also, guess what, Hulk wouldn't hold back against Nef either and looking at both fights, Savage Hulk is even stronger than Nef. The combine might of Ironman, Ionic Wonderman, Vision, and Wanda did nothing to the Hulk whereas, it was stated by Nef himself that Ironman "alone" is a threat.

Hulk didn't need to win those fights (and lol, Nef didn't win his fight either, hell, Thor was wrecking him solo)..him taking on the combine force of that team and actually having the advantage over them proves a lot.

Lol, its not the fact that you are disagree with me. It's you always going in Hulk threads saying he loses but never provides one shed of proof and when people show you evidence that goes against what you say, you ALWAYS discredit the scans and make up your own context. I still like you though, I think you are a reasonable/non flaming debater (even though you are bias against the Hulk). I'm headed to bed. Holla.

Dude, for the 4th time, I VOTED FOR WWHULK TO WIN HERE. Do you not get that. So dont say Im ALWAYS Discrediting Hulk, I LIKE Hulk, I frequently vote FOR Hulk. What I dont like is people like you ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS voting Hulk, NO MATTER WHAT, and calling everyone who doesnt agree with you WRONG!

Originally posted by DTM
Dude, for the 4th time, I VOTED FOR WWHULK TO WIN HERE. Do you not get that. So dont say Im ALWAYS Discrediting Hulk, I LIKE Hulk, Ifrequently vote For Hulk. What I dont like is people like you ALWAYS supporting Hulk, NO MATTER WHAT, and calling everyone who doesnt agree with you WRONG!

I don't always vote for Hulk. I have voted against him PLENTY of times.

Yes, when the skies run red with blood, and the seas boil to steam, you do. Please. When it comes to Hulk (as it is with quanchi and Thanos) you dont believe anyone short of Galactus takes him. Youre a fanboy, plain and simple, and thats fine, but when you make claims that other people are either Wrong, or biased against your guy (unfoundedly), thats just plain wrong.

Originally posted by carver9
@DTM...

Nothing in those scans was stated as them holding back, it said the opposite.

Of course Thor would get the majority against Herc and that's due to versatility but when they both "fought in character", Thor almost got choked to sleep and almost lost if he didn't conjure lightning. The fight was close.

Again, why bring up the Avengers (that said they were going to kill Hulk) holding back when you can't even provide proof that they were going all out against Nef? What's the point buddy? Also, guess what, Hulk wouldn't hold back against Nef either and looking at both fights, Savage Hulk is even stronger than Nef. The combine might of Ironman, Ionic Wonderman, Vision, and Wanda did nothing to the Hulk whereas, it was stated by Nef himself that Ironman "alone" is a threat.

Hulk didn't need to win those fights (and lol, Nef didn't win his fight either, hell, Thor was wrecking him solo)..him taking on the combine force of that team and actually having the advantage over them proves a lot.

Lol, its not the fact that you are disagree with me. It's you always going in Hulk threads saying he loses but never provides one shed of proof and when people show you evidence that goes against what you say, you ALWAYS discredit the scans and make up your own context. I still like you though, I think you are a reasonable/non flaming debater (even though you are bias against the Hulk). I'm headed to bed. Holla.

In one of the scans you posted it said they were holding back.

They did not wanted to kill the Hulk

and Namor was weakened for being in the desert.

Now here the avengers are actually talking about it.

Please get this, the Avengers most of the time hold back against the Hulk.

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Marvel%20Comics/Hulks%20limits/th_Hulk321_12a_zps8aae5ccb.jpg

It even says right here, We have the advantage on sheer physical power, but his rage gives him the advantage. He was fighting like a maniac

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Marvel%20Comics/Hulks%20limits/th_Hulk321_14a_zps7ea5d426.jpg http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Marvel%20Comics/Hulks%20limits/th_Hulk321_14b_zps87960776.jpg

Namor was weak

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Marvel%20Comics/Hulks%20limits/th_Hulk322_06b_zpsb74368b5.jpg

And to be honest if You have read the arc, it seems pretty much like the other avengers were getting in Hercs way. But that last part with herc is my opinion not an actual fact.

AND BTW, I DID VOTED FOR HULK TOO.

Originally posted by DTM
Yes, when the skies run red with blood, and the seas boil to steam, you do. Please. When it comes to Hulk (as it is with quanchi and Thanos) you dont believe anyone short of Galactus takes him. Youre a fanboy, plain and simple, and thats fine, but when you make claims that other people are either Wrong, or biased against your guy (unfoundedly), thats just plain wrong.

Go to the Odin vs WBH fist fight thread where I said Odin stomps. Go to the Zeus vs Hulk fist fight thread and look at me saying Hulk loses. Hell, I even gave Superman the edge via bfring...Thor, Cable, Magneto, Sentry. Anyone that can grab Hulk by the feet at super speed and toss his a**, I give them the edge. It's when bfr is off (even though the skyfathers would still stomp).Go to these threads and then come back and holla at me.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
In one of the scans you posted it said they were holding back.

They did not wanted to kill the Hulk

and Namor was weakened for being in the desert.

Now here the avengers are actually talking about it.

Please get this, the Avengers most of the time hold back against the Hulk.

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Marvel%20Comics/Hulks%20limits/th_Hulk321_12a_zps8aae5ccb.jpg

It even says right here, We have the advantage on sheer physical power, but his rage gives him the advantage. He was fighting like a maniac

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Marvel%20Comics/Hulks%20limits/th_Hulk321_14a_zps7ea5d426.jpg http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Marvel%20Comics/Hulks%20limits/th_Hulk321_14b_zps87960776.jpg

Namor was weak

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Marvel%20Comics/Hulks%20limits/th_Hulk322_06b_zpsb74368b5.jpg

And to be honest if You have read the arc, it seems pretty much like the other avengers were getting in Hercs way. But that last part with herc is my opinion not an actual fact.

Thank You Sir!

Originally posted by carver9
Go to the Odin vs WBH fist fight thread where I said Odin stomps. Go to the Zeus vs Hulk fist fight thread and look at me saying Hulk loses. Hell, I even gave Superman the edge via bfring...Thor, Cable, Magneto, Sentry. Anyone that can grab Hulk by the feet at super speed and toss his a**, I give them the edge. It's when bfr is off (even though the skyfathers would still stomp.Go to these threads and then come back and holla at me.

Well, you admit Hulk cant beat a Skyfather, clearly youre not as biased for him as I thought.

Uummmmm, his scans didn't go against anything I said. During the beginning, there could be an argument made that they were holding back, but during the middle of the fight when they said they would do anything to stop him, even kill him, that's when that argument is thrown out the window and Hulk still matched them while getting stronger. Thanks for trying though Rao...I'm gone foreal though, you all have a good night.

Originally posted by DTM
Thank You Sir!

NP.

Originally posted by carver9
Uummmmm, his scans didn't go against anything I said. During the beginning, there could be an argument made that they were holding back, but during the middle of the fight when they said they would do anything to stop him, even kill him, that's when that argument is thrown out the window and Hulk still matched them while getting stronger. Thanks for trying though Rao...I'm gone foreal though, you all have a good night.

At the end the avengers matched the ferocity of the Hulk and Hercules was about to kill the Hulk, when Betty stop them from doing so.

It is until issue 322 that the avengers decide to match Hulk's rage, and go for the kill when Hulk got defeated. most of the scans posted are from 321.

Originally posted by DTM
Truth be told, if it werent for vast inexperience Nefaria had with his power against the Avengers, he probably would have beaten them, and to me, would beat WWHulk as well.

I don't know, Nef was tough, but I was expecting original Synarr smacking down a strong JLA, from his hype (The original Synnar, not the god.)

But this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/CDTM3000/Avengers166_13b_zpsad48c244.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/CDTM3000/Avengers166_15a_zps6b14305e.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/CDTM3000/Avengers166_15b_zps70e3454f.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/CDTM3000/Avengers166_17a_zpsd16756b3.jpg

I could see pre reboot Superman, or even Captain Marvel or Black Adam being about as tough to put down...

Which may still put him comfortably over WWH, maybe, but just saying. To me, this looks like an "elite" brick, and not a Thanos, Despero, Kurse, or "team buster" level character..