Franklin Richards vs Tyrant, Thanos, and Odin...

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TheLordofMurder
Franklin Richards going all out against Tyrant, Thanos, and Odin in a battle to the Death or KO with no BFR allowed...

Who wins?

guy222
Franklin

Uriel005
tyrant is the only one remotely threatening.... Galactus was Franklins herald...

Cogito
Originally posted by Uriel005
Galactus was Franklins herald...

Hardly.

Hickman pretty much implied that Galactus and Franklin were on the same level when each resurrected the other. Yes, Galactus was as amped as we've ever seen him on panel, but so was Franklin at the time.

Sin I AM
Originally posted by Cogito
Hardly.

Hickman pretty much implied that Galactus and Franklin were on the same level when each resurrected the other. Yes, Galactus was as amped as we've ever seen him on panel, but so was Franklin at the time.

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by Cogito
Hickman pretty much implied that Galactus and Franklin were on the same level when each resurrected the other. Yes, Galactus was as amped as we've ever seen him on panel, but so was Franklin at the time.
Incorrect. Galactus did not resurrect Franklin. Also, Galactus fed on 4 planets was unwittingly portrayed as adult Franklin's superior.

The former is literally confirmed by Hickman on formspring, and the latter is right there on-panel.

zopzop
Probably Franklin or probably Team. Hickman was all over the place.

"Id"
Franklin

Cogito
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Incorrect. Galactus did not resurrect Franklin. Also, Galactus fed on 4 planets was unwittingly portrayed as adult Franklin's superior.

The former is literally confirmed by Hickman on formspring, and the latter is right there on-panel.

Sure looked like Franklin suicided and Galactus resurrected him to me, but I haven't seen Hickman's Formspring thoughts.

And I'm not convinced that either was definitively shown or implied to be more powerful than the other.

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by Cogito
Sure looked like Franklin suicided and Galactus resurrected him to me, but I haven't seen Hickman's Formspring thoughts.

And I'm not convinced that either was definitively shown or implied to be more powerful than the other.
Seemed that way to everybody except one guy. And that guy turned out to be right in the end.

Franklin taking on the Celestials in a grand style was supposed to be one of his big moments. For Galactus, it was just business as usual. Then there is the case of the MCs needing to merge in order to one-shot G. No such thing with Franklin. Seems pretty clear cut to me.

Cogito
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Seemed that way to everybody except one guy. And that guy turned out to be right in the end.

Franklin taking on the Celestials in a grand style was supposed to be one of his big moments. For Galactus, it was just business as usual. Then there is the case of the MCs needing to merge in order to one-shot G. No such thing with Franklin. Seems pretty clear cut to me.

Business as usual? The guy amped harder than he has in the past 50 years to face them.

Franklin deliberately held back his amp (young Franklin's power) to resurrect Galactus. If he had used his amp offensively (as Galactus did), who knows what might have happened.

---

Here's some more of Hickman's posts I found that are relevant:

In F4 # 604, aside from being used to resurrect Galactus, did young Franklin's orb serve an additional purpose of increasing the adult Franklin's power in the fight against the Celestials?
"Future Franklin, recharged/resurrected Galactus using all the juice little Franklin had."

Mr Hickman, in F4#603, had the Mad Celestials NOT combined into a super Celestial, do you feel Galactus would have been able to defeat all four (or even three) of them? Thanks for your time and previous responses.
"No."

Mr.Hickman, if Galactus couldn't defeat 3 or 4 of the Mad Celestials all by himself in F4#603, why did they opt to merge? For some readers, this was a point of confusion. Thanks for your time.
"He clearly -- cranked up on four planets -- could separately cause them some serious damage. So they merged and crushed him."

---

By Hickman's account, this was not "business as usual" for Galactus. He was going to get his ass handed to him either way, just as Franklin would have if he had tried to solo.

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by Cogito
Business as usual? The guy amped harder than he has in the past 50 years to face them.

Franklin deliberately held back his amp (young Franklin's power) to resurrect Galactus. If he had used his amp offensively (as Galactus did), who knows what might have happened.

---

Here's some more of Hickman's posts I found that are relevant:

In F4 # 604, aside from being used to resurrect Galactus, did young Franklin's orb serve an additional purpose of increasing the adult Franklin's power in the fight against the Celestials?
"Future Franklin, recharged/resurrected Galactus using all the juice little Franklin had."

Mr Hickman, in F4#603, had the Mad Celestials NOT combined into a super Celestial, do you feel Galactus would have been able to defeat all four (or even three) of them? Thanks for your time and previous responses.
"No."

Mr.Hickman, if Galactus couldn't defeat 3 or 4 of the Mad Celestials all by himself in F4#603, why did they opt to merge? For some readers, this was a point of confusion. Thanks for your time.
"He clearly -- cranked up on four planets -- could separately cause them some serious damage. So they merged and crushed him."

---

By Hickman's account, this was not "business as usual" for Galactus. He was going to get his ass handed to him either way, just as Franklin would have if he had tried to solo.

I think you just owned everyone here...

thumb up

Tony Stark
Franklin with ease

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by Cogito
Business as usual? The guy amped harder than he has in the past 50 years to face them.

"Amped harder than he has in 50 years".This is an old PM from Bran, in whose Galactus knowledge I put more stock than yours:


Originally posted by Cogito

Franklin deliberately held back his amp (young Franklin's power) to resurrect Galactus. If he had used his amp offensively (as Galactus did), who knows what might have happened.

I am not even sure why you're calling that an amp. Adult Franklin, as the rest of Doon's questions show, only used that blue orb for the sole purpose of

Originally posted by Cogito

Here's some more of Hickman's posts I found that are relevant:

In F4 # 604, aside from being used to resurrect Galactus, did young Franklin's orb serve an additional purpose of increasing the adult Franklin's power in the fight against the Celestials?
"Future Franklin, recharged/resurrected Galactus using all the juice little Franklin had."

Mr Hickman, in F4#603, had the Mad Celestials NOT combined into a super Celestial, do you feel Galactus would have been able to defeat all four (or even three) of them? Thanks for your time and previous responses.
"No."

Mr.Hickman, if Galactus couldn't defeat 3 or 4 of the Mad Celestials all by himself in F4#603, why did they opt to merge? For some readers, this was a point of confusion. Thanks for your time.
"He clearly -- cranked up on four planets -- could separately cause them some serious damage. So they merged and crushed him."

---

By Hickman's account, this was not "business as usual" for Galactus. He was going to get his ass handed to him either way, just as Franklin would have if he had tried to solo.
laughingYou think that somehow proves that Franklin was on Galactus(fed on 4 planets) level? It's clear from the on-panel evidence that the Mad Celestials viewed Galactus as a greater threat than Franklin, otherwise they would have Voltroned to one-shot Franklin as well when he killed one of them. And don't bring up the "we don't know how Celestial recombination works" excuse to explain away this discrepancy.

Diesldude
Where is Quan? He hasn't even voted in secrecy. That tells you right there that Franklin wins.

Mr.SunKing
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
"Amped harder than he has in 50 years".This is an old PM from Bran, in whose Galactus knowledge I put more stock than yours:



I am not even sure why you're calling that an amp. Adult Franklin, as the rest of Doon's questions show, only used that blue orb for the sole purpose of


laughingYou think that somehow proves that Franklin was on Galactus(fed on 4 planets) level? It's clear from the on-panel evidence that the Mad Celestials viewed Galactus as a greater threat than Franklin, otherwise they would have Voltroned to one-shot Franklin as well when he killed one of them. And don't bring up the "we don't know how Celestial recombination works" excuse to explain away this discrepancy.
nah slim, they seemed to be depicted as equal threats, in fact, I believe Franklin's had more emphasis.
Since their initial introduction, the author stated that the Celestials were intended to be a tier above Galactus and the Watchers.

I for one would agree that Franklin is on a par with a 4 planet amped given that he has been portrayed as their peers ( The Celestials) plus.

For one, they analyzed a young Franklin and perceived him as a threat calling him an "anomaly, universal shaper, harbinger, beyond omega classification, destroyer" ect which resulted in a failed telepathic assault and blast on their part.

Then his adult counterpart emerged, in which that time they were incapable of merging due to other Celestial's destroyed body. Again they referred to him as these things again, even calling him "danger, doom" they viewed him as great threat, more so equal to Galactus, if not, even more.

Cogito
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
I am not even sure why you're calling that an amp. Adult Franklin, as the rest of Doon's questions show, only used that blue orb for the sole purpose of
Because it was an amp. He doubled? his power, except he didn't use it offensively or defensively, he gave it away.


Originally posted by TheGodKiller
laughingYou think that somehow proves that Franklin was on Galactus(fed on 4 planets) level? It's clear from the on-panel evidence that the Mad Celestials viewed Galactus as a greater threat than Franklin, otherwise they would have Voltroned to one-shot Franklin as well when he killed one of them. And don't bring up the "we don't know how Celestial recombination works" excuse to explain away this discrepancy.

I don't use excuses.

And no, I don't think regular future Franklin was on the level of Galactus. I think future Franklin w/ young Franklin's power was on the level of Galactus. I think that was Hickman's intention, and I think he showed that very deliberately by using that power to resurrect Galactus to what appeared to be his full power (or close enough to it). I think if Franklin had used young Franklin's power to augment himself, he would have stood toe to toe with Galactus in that issue. As it was, he was perhaps a hair below because he held back his power as a trump card.

My argument isn't that either was stronger, or anything like that. The argument is over whether or not there was a definitive difference on-panel, and I don't think there was, nor do I think Hickman intended for there to be one. The only case I've presented so far is to deny the "evidence" you claim puts Galactus over the top.

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by Mr.SunKing
Since their initial introduction, the author stated that the Celestials were intended to be a tier above Galactus and the Watchers.
That's an old letters page. Since then, the Celestials have played as disposable pawns in the army that fought Thanos w/ IG, the very same army of whom Galactus was the de facto leader, along with bailing out in the fight with the Galactus Engine, against whom Galactus was left in a last-man stand.

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by Cogito
Because it was an amp. He doubled? his power, except he didn't use it offensively or defensively, he gave it away.

It really wasn't. If he used it solely for the purpose of resurrecting Galactus(which is exactly what he did and what Hickman confirmed), then it can't be an amp. Think about it.

Originally posted by Cogito

I don't use excuses.

And no, I don't think regular future Franklin was on the level of Galactus. I think future Franklin w/ young Franklin's power was on the level of Galactus. I think that was Hickman's intention, and I think he showed that very deliberately by using that power to resurrect Galactus to what appeared to be his full power (or close enough to it). I think if Franklin had used young Franklin's power to augment himself, he would have stood toe to toe with Galactus in that issue. As it was, he was perhaps a hair below because he held back his power as a trump card.

My argument isn't that either was stronger, or anything like that. The argument is over whether or not there was a definitive difference on-panel, and I don't think there was, nor do I think Hickman intended for there to be one. The only case I've presented so far is to deny the "evidence" you claim puts Galactus over the top.
In terms of how much damage each did to the Mad Celestials, I'd agree that they were portrayed as peers. However, it's undeniable that the Celestials had to combine to put down Galactus, something they didn't opt for with Franklin.

The way I see it, this is how the power levels of said characters were laid out for us(whether intentionally or unwittingly):

Voltron Celestial>4-planet-fed Galactus>Adult Franklin>Revived Galactus>=Individual Celestials.

Cogito
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
It really wasn't. If he used it solely for the purpose of resurrecting Galactus(which is exactly what he did and what Hickman confirmed), then it can't be an amp. Think about it.

I did think about it. There's no reason why Franklin couldn't have used young Franklin's power to augment himself. He chose to use it to revive Galactus. Let's not get hung up on the semantics of the word "amp" though.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
In terms of how much damage each did to the Mad Celestials, I'd agree that they were portrayed as peers. However, it's undeniable that the Celestials had to combine to put down Galactus, something they didn't opt for with Franklin.

You're the one who brought Hickman's Formspring comments into this. By Hickman's own Formspring words, the Celestials did not have to combine to defeat Galactus. There's two quotes from him, and they're only a few posts above.

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by Cogito
I did think about it. There's no reason why Franklin couldn't have used young Franklin's power to augment himself. He chose to use it to revive Galactus. Let's not get hung up on the semantics of the word "amp" though.

Except there is. Adult Franklin used all of young Franklin's energy(collected in that blue orb) to revive Galactus. Since he used all that juice to bring back the big G, there's no reason to think that he used any of it to augment his own personal power.

Originally posted by Cogito

You're the one who brought Hickman's Formspring comments into this. By Hickman's own Formspring words, the Celestials did not have to combine to defeat Galactus. There's two quotes from him, and they're only a few posts above.
Re-read the word "unwittingly" used in my previous posts. The way that battle with Galactus was portrayed on-panel, that indeed is the logical interpretation that follows. And yes, Hickman did say that, but then again Galactus was facing all 4 of the Celestials, while Franklin would have fallen against a lesser number of Celestials, without the necessary backup from Galactus. Ponder upon that.

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by Diesldude
Where is Quan? He hasn't even voted in secrecy.

He's voted; I am looking at it now....he's just too cowardly to support his vote openly.

TheGodKiller
^That's something I have noted in every Franklin Richards vs Thanos thread(and all the myriad variations of said thread). Quan has never backed down from defending Thanos against freaking Lucifer Morningstar himself, yet he seems to shy away from the Franklin threads. Strange...

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
^That's something I have noted in every Franklin Richards vs Thanos thread(and all the myriad variations of said thread). Quan has never backed down from defending Thanos against freaking Lucifer Morningstar himself, yet he seems to shy away from the Franklin threads. Strange...

Quanchi knows Thanos is so far beneath Franklin that there is no argument (no matter how much he attempts to twist things in Thanos's favor) to be made on Thanos's behalf...

And Quanchi is too much of a fanboy to ever admit Thanos loses (except against Surtur!) so he wont respond to those type of threads at all...

TheGodKiller
And you continue to try and bait him into replying to spite threads like these. When he inevitably does, the thread derails into a 30 page shitstorm before getting locked eventually. Life goes on as usual afterwards. More bait threads, more flamewars etc etc.

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
And you continue to try and bait him into replying to spite threads like these. When he inevitably does, the thread derails into a 30 page shitstorm before getting locked eventually. Life goes on as usual afterwards. More bait threads, more flamewars etc etc.

Well no...its not bait as Thanos has enough help to avoid it being Spite; Thanos one on one vs Franklin is definitely Spite.

I dont think this qualifies...

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Well no...its not bait as Thanos has enough help to avoid it being Spite; Thanos one on one vs Franklin is definitely Spite.

I dont think this qualifies...
Tyrant is the only one here who is even a factor in the fight, and even then you haven't mentioned whether it is the DP version or the FP version.

So yeah, this pretty much is spite.

Batman-Prime
Imho DP Tyrant is maybe slightly above Odin. So in essence, at best, 1 Elder God level, One Skyfather and one Trans against 1 Abstract.

zopzop
Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Imho DP Tyrant is maybe slightly above Odin. So in essence, at best, 1 Elder God level, One Skyfather and one Trans against 1 Abstract.
DP Tyrant is about Odin lvl (depending on what Odin is doing to amp and taking into consideration the CW god origin retcon ).

So you have 2 Skyfather level beings and one Trans Tier against one high cosmic. I still think Franklin wins but it's not a stomp in his favor at all.

Also, Franklin is NOT an abstract. Not even close. He couldn't beat 3 Rogue Celestials without 616 Franklin's power, Sol's Anvil, and Galactus' help.

guy222
trufh

Batman-Prime
Originally posted by zopzop
DP Tyrant is about Odin lvl (depending on what Odin is doing to amp and taking into consideration the CW god origin retcon ).

So you have 2 Skyfather level beings and one Trans Tier against one high cosmic. I still think Franklin wins but it's not a stomp in his favor at all.

Also, Franklin is NOT an abstract. Not even close. He couldn't beat 3 Rogue Celestials without 616 Franklin's power, Sol's Anvil, and Galactus' help.

I put him on G's level and G is an Abstrac, or how is he rated here on kmc?

zopzop
Originally posted by Batman-Prime
I put him on G's level and G is an Abstrac, or how is he rated here on kmc?
By definition though he cannot be an abstract. Abstracts are well.....abstract concepts.

Death, Eternity, Infinity, Oblivion, Anomaly, Order, Chaos, Love, Hate, The Living Tribunal, etc.. these are abstracts.

Galactus, the Watchers, the Celestials, etc... are not abstracts, they are very powerful cosmic beings.

And yes, I agree with you he's Galactus/Celestial level. Exactly like it's been stated on panel even before Hickman got his claws into him. Franklin's potential was said to rival a Celestial's.

Batman-Prime
Originally posted by zopzop
By definition though he cannot be an abstract. Abstracts are well.....abstract concepts.

Death, Eternity, Infinity, Oblivion, Anomaly, Order, Chaos, Love, Hate, The Living Tribunal, etc.. these are abstracts.

Galactus, the Watchers, the Celestials, etc... are not abstracts, they are very powerful cosmic beings.

And yes, I agree with you he's Galactus/Celestial level. Exactly like it's been stated on panel even before Hickman got his claws into him. Franklin's potential was said to rival a Celestial's.

So to be more precise, Abstract level, like Galactus^^.

guy222
yes franklin is celestial lvl but odd though he had to b revived by ashema the listener when he perished hmm

regards to hickman friends, all writers write as they please hope he doesn't f*** with lt when he returns in the new thanos sillyness prolly will tho the stupid bastard laughing out loud

Cogito
Big G is half abstract, being a merger of Galan and the previous universe's version of Eternity. He also somewhat represents an abstract concept. But yeah, generally he's considered a high-end cosmic

guy222
yes he's quite powerful

zopzop
Originally posted by Batman-Prime
So to be more precise, Abstract level, like Galactus^^.
You missed the whole point.

Galactus is a high end cosmic, not an abstract, since he represents NO concept.

Batman-Prime
Originally posted by zopzop
You missed the whole point.

Galactus is a high end cosmic, not an abstract, since he represents NO concept.

Actually, you missed the point.

I know. Abstract level is like Herald level for me to judge ones powerlevel. Superman is no Herald of Galactus, yet he is considered Herald level. I use that concept to judge ones power. Galactus or Frankling are no abstracts per se, but heir power is on par with some of them.

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by zopzop
So you have 2 Skyfather level beings and one Trans Tier against one high cosmic. I still think Franklin wins but it's not a stomp in his favor at all.
Considering DP Tyrant's position on the Tiers thread, this team is technically 1 skyfather + 2 Trans level beings against Franklin.

zopzop
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Considering DP Tyrant's position on the Tiers thread, this team is technically 1 skyfather + 2 Trans level beings against Franklin.
Tier threads are d|ck.

Team probably loses but they give Franklin hell.

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by zopzop
Tier threads are d|ck.
Why? Because a few characters here and there, including your beloved Tyrant, are apparently placed in the wrong tier?

From what I can see, the KMC tiers system is about as precise as there can be any.

Horrificus
I have spoken.

guy222
ats right

hey friend how are u

Horrificus
Originally posted by guy222
ats right

hey friend how are u good, thanks.
How's life treating you guy?

zom1967
I read on another site(can`t remember right now,so take it with a grain of salt).That Hickman backed off and said Galactus was in a coma,if not 42 light years of the space around him would have exploded.And we would be waiting for Abaraxus return,so I think he recharged BigG(but not to the point of a 4 planet fed BigG)He had a much harder time with the celestials that were left.I also think that 4 planet amped Galactus would be slightly more powerful than adult,F.R.

Tony Stark
Originally posted by Cogito
Hardly.

Hickman pretty much implied that Galactus and Franklin were on the same level when each resurrected the other. Yes, Galactus was as amped as we've ever seen him on panel, but so was Franklin at the time.


You do know what pretty much implied means right...? It was NEVER said.

wink

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