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Unicron vs the 4 horsemen of the McPocalypse.

donned in exo-suits and after their ship was casually nommed by unicron, they end up in unicron's smelt-o-matic chamber when they manage to escape the death-conveyor. unicron is alerted to their escape. there is no matrix.

I'm going to wait until I see the new GI:Joe. So I'm well versed in all four Bruces.

well as a start, and to be fair to the haters, we'll put him at butch's level for now (unrealistic since he's essentially the original supersoldier of that universe, but it may prevent certain butthurt dwellers from screaming in their pillows.) when the film canon alters that, then so be it.

Unicron may be fu**ed here.

well perhaps unicron will receive assistance from the exo-gimpers.

Nice thread Unicron's internal defenses still tear them apart.

based on your misinformed and baseless speculation/thread

Originally posted by focus4chumps
based on your misinformed and baseless speculation/thread Based on the fact there isn't anything they can do to beat Unicron.

just how many times of repeating the same fallacious opinion do you feel is enough to alter facts and evidence?

Originally posted by focus4chumps
just how many times of repeating the same fallacious opinion do you feel is enough to alter facts and evidence? It's not fallacious, its logical. There is nothing they can do to a Planet sized Transformer. They aren't more powerful or better than the group that was in there and going to die.

thank you again for your baseless and misinformed opinion. and thank you for your all your future postings of the same baseless and misinformed opinion.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
thank you again for your baseless and misinformed opinion. and thank you for your all your future postings of the same baseless and misinformed opinion. They are not baseless not misinformed facts.

Originally posted by Newjak
Nice thread Unicron's internal defenses still tear them apart.

Ummmm and where was Unicron's internal pinchers shown tearing anyone apart?

Oh, absolutely nowhere whatsoever, you say?

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Ummmm and where was Unircron's pinchers shown tearing anyone apart?

Oh, absolutely nowhere whatsoever, you say?

dont bother. every time his points are shot down, out come the tapshoes.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Ummmm and where was Unicron's internal pinchers shown tearing anyone apart?

Oh, absolutely nowhere whatsoever, you say? Do you think they are incapable of such a thing?

Originally posted by focus4chumps
dont bother. every time his points are shot down, out come the tapshoes. You keep trying but honestly I don't care. You're wrong on topics that have been discussed and haven't shot down anything.

Against 4 exosuited Willises? Sure, judging by:

A) How easily they are dispatched.

B) There aren't everywhere

c) They demonstrated no ability on contact to tear anything apart.

you should have switched butch with frank moses

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Against 4 exosuited Willises? Sure, judging by:

A) How easily they are dispatched.

B) There aren't everywhere

c) They demonstrated no ability on contact to tear anything apart. Yup you've got nothing like I thought. There is nothing keeping them from tearing things apart other than you don't want them to.

The pincers tear the willises to pieces.

thank you for yet more "MY BASELESS OPINION IS FINAL/THREAD" troll spam

Originally posted by Newjak
Yup you've got nothing like I thought. There is nothing keeping them from tearing things apart other than you don't want them to.

The pincers tear the willises to pieces.

Yes you did think nothing. I agree:
I just posted 3 very good and valid points.

There is nothing to show that they tear things apart no matter how hard you want them to.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Yes you did think nothing. I agree:
I just posted 3 very good and valid points.

There is nothing to show that they tear things apart no matter how hard you want them to. No you didn't. One them relies of them never touching the Willises that's not an inability to tear someone apart, that is just lacking the opportunity.

The middle one is a possibility but we know they are around a lot of places.

The third one is just you saying well obviously since they didn't show it so they can't. They obviously possess the ability to tear apart if they so choose to based on the way they are designed.

ok, but again: baseless speculation is not evidence.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
ok, but again: baseless speculation is not evidence. Once again you try to hard.

It's not baseless, it's based on physics and the design of the pinchers.

And the Bruce's are still inferior to the team that was in the movie and getting overwhelmed.

So how again are these 4 exosuited Bruce's going to defeat Unicron? They don't have the matrix, so for those saying that they'll win... well, how exactly are they going to do it?

I doubt they can do any better than the Tranformers that were in Unicron.

Human in Exosuit << Transformer

Plus you have Galvatron waiting inside Unicron somewhere, and I don't think even 4 of them can handle Galvatron.

here newjack. more hypothesis-damning visual evidence. when you dance around it, try mixing it up this time. salsa? oh wait, the tango!

http://i1322.photobucket.com/albums/u561/focus4chumps/Untitled_zps97fbef2e.png

http://i1322.photobucket.com/albums/u561/focus4chumps/exo-scale_zpsb46c3cb6.jpg


so much for blaster-arm-size gimping.

shall we proceed to more reasonable discussion or shall we continue kicking that dead horse?

Originally posted by Newjak
No you didn't. One them relies of them never touching the Willises that's not an inability to tear someone apart, that is just lacking the opportunity.

The middle one is a possibility but we know they are around a lot of places.

The third one is just you saying well obviously since they didn't show it so they can't. They obviously possess the ability to tear apart if they so choose to based on the way they are designed.

Nope (A) ties in with (B) and (C) especially as they were shootable, and evadable, like blasting through a wall and the subsequent massive flood providing escape for example... (which also showed how fragile the innards of Unicron are, (in conjunction with being able to throw Galvatron through him, and things like the amount of damage that Arcee, and the Dinobots inflicted, along with Quintesson ships through the eye, and being made of materials that Daniel's exosuit could shoot through, like that Vat cover rod etc)

(B) They were shown in one place and one place only..
So we cannot safely assume that they are about a lot of places.

(C) Which is my perfectly reasonable reaction to you attributing feats like shredding opponents to something not even remotely shown to be able to do that.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Nope (A) ties in with (B) and (C) especially as they were shootable, and evadable, like blasting through a wall and the subsequent massive flood providing escape for example... (which also showed how fragile the innards of Unicron are, (in conjunction with being able to throw Galvatron through him, and things like the amount of damage that Arcee, and the Dinobots inflicted, along with Quintesson ships through the eye, and being made of materials that Daniel's exosuit could shoot through, like that Vat cover rod etc)

(B) They were shown in one place and one place only..
So we cannot safely assume that they are about a lot of places.

(C) Which is my perfectly reasonable reaction to you attributing feats like shredding opponents to something not even remotely shown to be able to do that.

troll!!!!

Galvatron getting thrown took an incredible amount of force only possible due to Hot Rod's transformation into Rodimus Prime. Which is proven considering Galvatron was soaring through space for months before crash landing in a lava pit on a planet some distance away from Unicron.

and what of a mere pistol cracking open unicron's...bladder? (whatever that water container was.) a fluke? doesnt count? super-duper-megatron-raping pistol?

Weak spot perhaps. I dunno. I'm not denying it happened, because that'd be silly. Just like saying, "Oh, we only saw internal defenses in this one spot, so he must not have any anywhere else, despite him being bigger than most known planets and only a few parts are shown due to it being a movie with time constraints!!" Especially since when Perceptor and a few other Autobots shrunk to miscroscopic size and went inside Megatron, he had internal defenses as well.

But the fact of the matter is that in pretty much every iteration of comics/movies/cartoons/video games that involve Unicron, the only way to defeat him is the Autobot Matrix of Leadership, or being attacked head on by his brother, Primus, who is actually a transformed Cybertron.

So while he may be able to be damaged, he certainly can't be stopped or destroyed without it. In some continuities he can even heal damage done to him in moments.

And are you stating you don't believe Hot Rod evolving into Rodiums gave him a massive power boost? Despite Optimus' "spirit" telling him to arise and take on the mantle of Prime(which always makes a person strong), him becoming visibly larger and more menacing looking, him being able to easily overpower Galvatron when the weaker form of Megatron was sonning him in the beginning of the movie. And Galvatron hurtling through space uncontrollably for months before a planet's gravity well finally caught him.

Originally posted by KingD19
Weak spot perhaps. I dunno. I'm not denying it happened, because that'd be silly.

right. because it was on screen and there for all to see. one would have to be a troll or complete drooling idiot to deny it.

Originally posted by KingD19
Just like saying, "Oh, we only saw internal defenses in this one spot, so he must not have any anywhere else, despite him being bigger than most known planets and only a few parts are shown due to it being a movie with time constraints!!"

nice false equivalency. equating the simple acknowledgment of blatant fact with you blindly assuming 'known unknowns'. nice try mr. rumsfeld.


Originally posted by KingD19
Especially since when Perceptor and a few other Autobots shrunk to miscroscopic size and went inside Megatron, he had internal defenses as well.

But the fact of the matter is that in pretty much every iteration of comics/movies/cartoons/video games that involve Unicron, the only way to defeat him is the Autobot Matrix of Leadership, or being attacked head on by his brother, Primus, who is actually a transformed Cybertron.

how utterly irrelevant. thank you

Originally posted by KingD19
So while he may be able to be damaged, he certainly can't be stopped or destroyed without it. In some continuities he can even heal damage done to him in moments.

baseless pontification and non-canon wasting of time.

Originally posted by KingD19
And are you stating you don't believe Hot Rod evolving into Rodiums gave him a massive power boost?

...which enabled him to throw galvatron? certainly.

...which just barely crossed your baseless arbitrary threshold of unicron's structural tolerance? what clownishness.

Originally posted by KingD19
Despite Optimus' "spirit" telling him to arise and take on the mantle of Prime(which always makes a person strong), him becoming visibly larger and more menacing looking, him being able to easily overpower Galvatron when the weaker form of Megatron was sonning him in the beginning of the movie. And Galvatron hurtling through space uncontrollably for months before a planet's gravity well finally caught him.

this has nothing at all to do with unicron's internal strengths/weaknesses


boy you sure type a lot for not having made a single valid standing point.

And all you do is call bs and insult posters who don't agree with you. So I doubt anything you say can be held valid. Point is, Unicron wins, despite you thinking he doesn't. Have a nice day.

what a surprise.

once again your house of cards blows over and once again its "waaaaaah u troll!!! i'm still right!!!" *rage quit* baby

Originally posted by focus4chumps
and what of a mere pistol cracking open unicron's...bladder? (whatever that water container was.) a fluke? doesnt count? super-duper-megatron-raping pistol? Considering the size of Unicron the damage Arcee actually did to him is marginal at best.

oh right. thanks for bringing up arcee's pistol.

...oh wait you didnt see what you did and will go on ignoring the above posted visual evidence of scale which blow apart your speculation on the exosuit blaster arm scale (based on wishes and seeming ignorance of 3 point perspective).

just *whoops* dodged it. nice bro


well you can just scroll up if you feel like behaving like a grown-up and see for yourself....again. after all i cannot quote my own post or that means i conceited. just ask quanchina

Originally posted by focus4chumps
oh right. thanks for bringing up arcee's pistol.

...oh wait you didnt see what you did and will go on ignoring the above posted visual evidence of scale which blow apart your speculation on the exosuit blaster arm scale (based on wishes and seeming ignorance of 3 point perspective).

just *whoops* dodged it. nice bro


well you can just scroll up if you feel like behaving like a grown-up and see for yourself....again. after all i cannot quote my own post or that means i conceited. just ask quanchina I did ignore it because they are basically the same pictures you have continuously posted and they honestly don't show what you think they do. I just figured by now everyone who has actually decided to be involved wit these talks will have seen the arguments so there really isn't much point in constantly correcting you.

But I will do it one more time. Basically those pictures show Arcee's pistol is roughly the size of her forearm with a little bit of her hand added on, and that her forearm plus hand is roughly the size of the Exo's arm definitely over half of it.

I don't know what else to say. Your evidence really isn't evidence that supports what you say. Also for a little exercise why don't you look at a picture of Arcee holding her gun and Daniel with his Exosuit blasters out. That should make for a fun comparison.

Originally posted by Newjak
Arcee's pistol is roughly the size of her forearm with a little bit of her hand added on



i only posted this once...weil this will make it twice but how would you know or care since you opened your post by admitting you are ignoring visual evidence. (and I'M the 'troll'. lol) lets not even start on your ridiculous underscaling of the exo-arm.

but again, your overscaling of her pistol is complete balderdash

http://i1322.photobucket.com/albums/u561/focus4chumps/Untitled_zps97fbef2e.png

Originally posted by focus4chumps


i only posted this once...weil this will make it twice but how would you know or care since you opened your post by admitting you are ignoring visual evidence. (and I'M the 'troll'. lol) lets not even start on your ridiculous underscaling of the exo-arm.

but again, your overscaling of her pistol is complete balderdash

http://i1322.photobucket.com/albums/u561/focus4chumps/Untitled_zps97fbef2e.png The gun there is still roughly the size of her forearm, which still roughly the size of Daniel's entire exosuit arm.

and here is one more of her gun and her arm next to Daniel

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v499/PVS/pistol_zps218eea32.png


http://www.skinnytie.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/vlcsnap-383344.png

The gun is obviously the size of her forearm plus a little bit of her hand based on her hands compare to the gun. Also clearly her forearm and hand are roughly the size of the Exosuits arm.

Just like in all the other pics you are posting.

lol posts an angle with the arms out of frame

you will go to any lengths to avoid the shot of her holding the exosuit, as you know it proves you flat wrong.

also i love how you went from "forearm and hand" to "forearm to first knukle", and now its just "forearm" and im supposed to pretend i missed it all.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
lol posts an angle with the arms out of frame

you will go to any lengths to avoid the shot of her holding the exosuit, as you know it proves you flat wrong.

also i love how you went from "forearm and hand" to "forearm to first knukle", and now its just "forearm" and im supposed to pretend i missed it all. I'm sorry I forgot to mention hand in the first part but I did mention in the statement below the pictures.

I'm not avoiding the shot of her holding the exosuit. I keep telling you even in those pictures everything I've said stays true while what you say is wrong.

Her hand in that pic alone is as big as the upper portion of the arm.

Originally posted by Newjak
clearly her forearm and hand are roughly the size of the Exosuits arm.

so since the blaster arm is as long as her forearm and hand, and you already admitted that the pistol is shorter than her forearm+hand, then blaster arm is longer than pistol. good so that point is squashed. thank you.

http://www.skinnytie.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/vlcsnap-383232.png

but lets get real
its clear that her pistol is barely the length of elbow to wrist and the exo arm is longer than arcee's forearm+hand. the part that extends behind the elbow-hole puts it well over. you need to quit all that dancing and just deal with the fact that you were and are wrong.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
so since the blaster arm is as long as her forearm and hand, and you already admitted that the pistol is shorter than her forearm+hand, then blaster arm is longer than pistol. good so that point is squashed. thank you.

Originally posted by Newjak
I'm sorry I forgot to mention hand in the first part but I did mention in the statement below the pictures.

I'm not avoiding the shot of her holding the exosuit. I keep telling you even in those pictures everything I've said stays true while what you say is wrong.

Her hand in that pic alone is as big as the upper portion of the arm.

And even then I'v said multiple times that the pistol is roughly the size of the arm but definitely larger than half of the arm to account for size variances in the pictures although both ranges make the blaster far bigger than anything the suit has.

At this point you're trying to nitpick what I'm saying hoping for some kind of inconsistency. All I can say is the visual evidence, even the ones you presented, point to what I've said multiple times times already.

why do i keep arguing with stevie wonder.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
why do i keep arguing with stevie wonder. Name Calling really???

Anyways I don't know why you keep replying to me or acting like this is a competition I've already told you multiple times I'm not trying to change your mind cause you're wrong or just trying to troll like you've trolled quan multiple times. I'm just making sure everyone understands your wrong and your evidence doesn't show what you think it does.

http://www.skinnytie.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/vlcsnap-383232.png

ffs their hands are even the same size. i've had enough of your clown dance for one day. your downplaying is baseless and contributes nothing.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
http://www.skinnytie.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/vlcsnap-383232.png

ffs their hands are even the same size. i've had enough of your clown dance for one day. your downplaying is baseless and contributes nothing. Yet the robotic body is clearly draped across her forearms only, including the other arm of the exosuit which isn't dangling. You know this because her arms at the elbows are roughly at 90 degree angles so it can only be her forearms holding it.

If you look at the left arm you can see her upper arm by itself is longer than from hip to knee of the exosuit.

So her forearm length in that picture is the size of the entire exosuit bodies width plus the width of the other arm.

Like I said your picture doesn't show what you think it does.

today i learned that unicron's smelting vat's only weakness was aids and pixie dust since thats all the exosuit could fire. also apparently clearly defined scale is subjective...like a picasso.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
today i learned that unicron's smelting vat's only weakness was aids and pixie dust since thats all the exosuit could fire. also apparently clearly defined scale is subjective...like a picasso. Who said it fires pixie dust???

It just isn't nearly as powerful as a transformer's gun.

And it is clearly defined showing her forearm supporting the exosuit's body and other arm. It just looks smaller do to perspective and a little poor drawing unless you believe her left arm is significantly longer than her right.

Nice try with going to extremes though.

oh dear

Originally posted by Newjak
poor drawing

right. whichever scenes prove you wrong were just drawn poorly.

http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq223/imagetony48/Animations/Clownjuggling-animation.gif

Originally posted by focus4chumps
oh dear



right. whichever scenes prove you wrong were just drawn poorly.

http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq223/imagetony48/Animations/Clownjuggling-animation.gif It doesn't prove me wrong. It clearly shows her forearm is as long as the exosuit's body is wide plus the width of the other arm. Which makes her forearm + hand roughly the size of the exosuit's arm

Some of the perspective is off a bit but that's common in the transformers movie. Unless you really want to admit her left arm way longer than her right one.

Like I said you're obviously trolling and trying to nitpick me apart looking for something.

You are still wrong though and I'm right.

look bro, i've been infinitely patient with you despite your implications of trollery and have continued to entertain your silly notion of scale in the hopes of teaching you perspective. im not sure if you got it down now or if you only acknowledge it when it suits you.

the hands are almost the same size. even in that perspective it is abundantly clear that it can grip and fire a standard autobot pistol like rc had. the strength of the exosuit was proven when daniel knocked wreckgar down with a huge chunk of metal. now go on and tell me how arcee's hands were probably juuuuuuuuuussssssssssssst large enough to hold and fire the pistol and even a millimeter less size would make it impossible.
http://www.skinnytie.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/vlcsnap-383232.png
now i could just reboot the topic and give them pistols, but that would be silly since they are already equipped with blasters, using obvious autobot tech. everything you have argued is completely blind-guessing balderdash, so there is no need to do a reboot.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
look bro, i've been infinitely patient with you despite your implications of trollery and have continued to entertain your silly notion of scale in the hopes of teaching you perspective. im not sure if you got it down now or if you only acknowledge it when it suits you.

the hands are almost the same size. even in that perspective it is abundantly clear that it can grip and fire a standard autobot pistol like rc had. the strength of the exosuit was proven when daniel knocked wreckgar down with a huge chunk of metal. now go on and tell me how arcee's hands were probably juuuuuuuuuussssssssssssst large enough to hold and fire the pistol and even a millimeter less size would make it impossible.
http://www.skinnytie.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/vlcsnap-383232.png
now i could just reboot the topic and give them pistols, but that would be silly since they are already equipped with blasters, using obvious autobot tech. everything you have argued is completely blind-guessing balderdash, so there is no need to do a reboot.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
here newjack. more hypothesis-damning visual evidence. when you dance around it, try mixing it up this time. salsa? oh wait, the tango!

http://i1322.photobucket.com/albums/u561/focus4chumps/Untitled_zps97fbef2e.png

http://i1322.photobucket.com/albums/u561/focus4chumps/exo-scale_zpsb46c3cb6.jpg


so much for blaster-arm-size gimping.

shall we proceed to more reasonable discussion or shall we continue kicking that dead horse?

Originally posted by Newjak

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v499/PVS/pistol_zps218eea32.png


http://www.skinnytie.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/vlcsnap-383344.png

You can keep your patience cause you continue to be wrong.

In almost every single picture you've shown of her and Daniel in the exosuit she is nearly twice as tall as it is. Are you really going to sit here and with a straight face say her hand is as big as Daniel's?

That would mean she has a freakishly small arm compared to the rest of her body, but we know from other shots she doesn't.

So it's just a little badly drawn perspective and her forearm is still clearly holding the exosuits entire body + other arm.

And her forearm + hand is still roughly the size of the exosuit's arm which still makes her blaster at least the very minimum slightly over half of the exosuits arm or roughly the size of its arm.

So you can restart the thread and give them pistols the size of Arcee's they won't be able to wield them properly considering how much bigger they are. They will still get over run by Unicron's internal defenses.

interesting. i'll take your pontificating into serious consideration

http://i1322.photobucket.com/albums/u561/focus4chumps/4-toilet-flush_zps218f3773.jpg

Originally posted by focus4chumps
interesting. i'll take your pontificating into serious consideration

http://i1322.photobucket.com/albums/u561/focus4chumps/4-toilet-flush_zps218f3773.jpg You can do whatever you want with it.

As long as people realize you're terribly wrong.

yeah look at the long line of agreement


well ok there are 4 who will rush to agree with you without even knowing wtf either of us is talking about. i dont want to mention names but their first initials are "dadudemon, The Fat Rambo, Quanchi, and Lestov" but other than that...

do you really think you can be the boss of all things downplaying while claiming majority of one?

Originally posted by focus4chumps
yeah look at the long line of agreement


well ok there are 4 who will rush to agree with you without even knowing wtf either of us is talking about. i dont want to mention names but their first initials are "dadudemon, The Fat Rambo, Quanchi, and Lestov" but other than that...

do you really think you can be the boss of all things downplaying while claiming majority of one? Am I trying to argue with you by saying I have the majority.'

All I'm saying is your wrong I'm right and I hope people understand that so they don't agree with you and get the wrong facts.

Originally posted by Newjak
your wrong I'm right

yes you keep spamming on about that without a shred of evidence.

Anyway.... Unicron wins.

interesting. how so?

I honestly love how people love to paint the inconsistencies of the 80's toon movie as some sort of definitive proof of ANYTHING reguarding Unicron's actual capabilities...

I'm sorry Focus, but this is pure bullshit. You never said which Unicron we are using, as even G1 has several incarnations, including a God of Chaos variant from the comics.

But hell, why stop there, even toon G1 movie. 'Cron stomps, as the Willises have no hope of doing any lasting damage. What, you honestly thought that Daniel's arm cannons on a buch of Bruce clones are going to make a difference? Reffer to New Jack's point, Arcee plogging a hole in a minor lube line took no less than 5 pinpoint shots on the exact same point in rapid succession. And thats from a trained and experienced sharpshooting warrior robot with millions of years of warfare under her belt, with a weapon beyond human weapon desig capability. And while under duress from the claws.

And thats another thing, whats all this bullshit of the claws not being able to do anything? Does common sense not exist anymore? Are you telling me now, that the 'Bot's ran in all kinds of different directions to evade "harmless claws", thats absolutely perfect bloody logic....

Anyways, I guess it doesn't matter at all anyways, the Willises have no means to do any lasting damage anyways, even if they went ahead all guns on those suits firing all over the place. They have no way of knowing where to hit anything vital, even if they walked across it by accident, and before long, they use up the juice on the suits and slowly suffocate due to lack of oxygen.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
I honestly love how people love to paint the inconsistencies of the 80's toon movie as some sort of definitive proof of ANYTHING reguarding Unicron's actual capabilities...

I'm sorry Focus, but this is pure bullshit. You never said which Unicron we are using, as even G1 has several incarnations, including a God of Chaos variant from the comics.

this is the movie vs. forum.

its ok, we all make mistakes.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
But hell, why stop there, even toon G1 movie. 'Cron stomps, as the Willises have no hope of doing any lasting damage. What, you honestly thought that Daniel's arm cannons on a buch of Bruce clones are going to make a difference? Reffer to New Jack's point, Arcee plogging a hole in a minor lube line took no less than 5 pinpoint shots on the exact same point in rapid succession. And thats from a trained and experienced sharpshooting warrior robot with millions of years of warfare under her belt, with a weapon beyond human weapon desig capability. And while under duress from the claws.

you are seriously the overplaying experience necessary to hold aim and fire a pistol. i guess i can post videos of children at the firing range bullseyeing targets but that would be almost as silly as insisting that it takes millions of years to master.


Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
And thats another thing, whats all this bullshit of the claws not being able to do anything? Does common sense not exist anymore? Are you telling me now, that the 'Bot's ran in all kinds of different directions to evade "harmless claws", thats absolutely perfect bloody logic....

nobody said they were harmless, just that they were defeatable. with the one exception of springer being pinned for half a second, the autobots proved to have them well covered. no on screen evidence yet to counter this.


i know its counter-intuitive for unicrons internal defenses to be so ridiculously delicate, but i didnt write the screenplay man.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Anyways, I guess it doesn't matter at all anyways, the Willises have no means to do any lasting damage anyways, even if they went ahead all guns on those suits firing all over the place. They have no way of knowing where to hit anything vital, even if they walked across it by accident, and before long, they use up the juice on the suits and slowly suffocate due to lack of oxygen.

you pinpointed the fuel limit and targeting capabilities of exosuits with no evidence? oh boy. well welcome to the discussion.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
this is the movie vs. forum.

its ok, we all make mistakes.

Ok, so the Prime episodes, and the entire Unicron Trilogy don't count now? Fair enough, but some clarification on your part certainly could never hurt.

And congrats on using the single most inconsistent version BTW...

Originally posted by focus4chumps
you are seriously the overplaying experience necessary to hold aim and fire a pistol. i guess i can post videos of children at the firing range bullseyeing targets but that would be almost as silly as insisting that it takes millions of years to master.

No, but millions of years worth of experience in variable combat situations is far better than a washed up boxer, a cop and a taxi driver. The only one who can say he has comparable experience in terms of military situations is Duke.

However, being in the midst of a 9 million year war, and surviving against better armed and armored fighters like the Decepticons in god knows how many firefights tells us absolute shitloads as to her survivability, which is literally thouseands of orders of magnitude compared to any of the Willis clones. Combine that with her knowlege of robotics, and a weapon more advanced that an Earth made Exo Suit using Cybertronian tech.... Not to mention that the pistol your trying to dowplay due to it's size actually laid waste to several Sharkticons on it's own. Understand that the size of a weapon does not always determine it's effectiveness and destructive capability. if size was all that mattered, then Megatron would have basically ammounted to a pop-gun, when we know that is not the case.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
nobody said they were harmless, just that they were defeatable. with the one exception of springer being pinned for half a second, the autobots proved to have them well covered. no on screen evidence yet to counter this.

They had them covered? They were running from them! of the two times that they had to stand their ground and shoot, the first time was because Daniel tripped and fell over, and the second was because they were surrounded and were wildly shooting in a desperate hope not to get nailed by the things, and fortunately, the matrix energy happened to rip through Unicron at that very moment. Don't attempt to try and cover that as the tenticles being weak.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
i know its counter-intuitive for unicrons internal defenses to be so ridiculously delicate, but i didnt write the screenplay man.

Well, there is the plot to consider, but tell me, other than the actual Autobots managing to shoot two of them through the tenticle portion in a narrow corridor, what proof do you have that they are delicate and weak?

Originally posted by focus4chumps
you pinpointed the fuel limit and targeting capabilities of exosuits with no evidence? oh boy. well welcome to the discussion.

Ok, now I'm going to tear this argument apart with your own logic...

#1: You actually gave the exosuits targeting capabilities when they have none whatsoever.

#2: You understand that the exosuits are of Cybertronian tech, and built by Spike right, All Cybertronian tech runs off of Energon, a finite fuel source. I didn't say when the things would run out, only that they would long before the Willis clones can actually do any substantial or lasting harm.

#3: You gave the Willis clones knowlege on how to operate what is essentially utterly alien and exotic technology of the Exosuits with no evidence.

For shame.

ok so again this about the MOVIE since this is a MOVIE VERSUS FORUM.

there are 4 transformers movies to date, 3 of which are michael bay abortions.

i dont know why i have to go on explaining this, so i wont. just know that by your insistence to the contrary you are opening your retort with complete falsehood.


Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

They had them covered? They were running from them! of the two times that they had to stand their ground and shoot, the first time was because Daniel tripped and fell over, and the second was because they were surrounded and were wildly shooting in a desperate hope not to get nailed by the things, and fortunately, the matrix energy happened to rip through Unicron at that very moment. Don't attempt to try and cover that as the tenticles being weak.

how do you get to that conclusion? you said nothing to counter my point on the pinchers being easily destroyed. yes, they ran from the pinchers. they ran from many things

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Well, there is the plot to consider, but tell me, other than the actual Autobots managing to shoot two of them through the tenticle portion in a narrow corridor, what proof do you have that they are delicate and weak?

lol @ "2". you need to watch the film again


Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Ok, now I'm going to tear this argument apart with your own logic...

#1: You actually gave the exosuits targeting capabilities when they have none whatsoever.

i did not. earlier in another thread i speculated such considering the telepathic bond between human and exosuit, but i never used that as evidence. i was referring to lining up a shot. does "siting" make you happy or do you need to play semantic games for the win? or are you just gimping the exosuit by saying its impossible to aim shots?

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
#2: You understand that the exosuits are of Cybertronian tech, and built by Spike right, All Cybertronian tech runs off of Energon, a finite fuel source. I didn't say when the things would run out, only that they would long before the Willis clones can actually do any substantial or lasting harm.

nowhere was it said that spike built the exosuit. and again you have no way of quantifying fuel capacity, be it energon or diesel.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
#3: You gave the Willis clones knowlege on how to operate what is essentially utterly alien and exotic technology of the Exosuits with no evidence.

adjectives for the sake of puffery are fun, but the suits were built specifically for humans to operate. a 10 year old boy learned it without a specific instruction on how to operate it besides encouraging his mental bond with it. later he does a full-air flip, transforms, knocks down 2 decepticons, knocks down a wreckgar, fires blasters, all with NO instruction.



i can tell by your bitter and over aggressive style that you are presently defending someone's honor, but please form at least one substantial point before typing up another essay of nothing said. if you really had a solid topic-slaying point, you could end this thread with a sentence. not a scatterbrained dissertation.

That a 'Junkion', not a 'Wreckgar'.

Wheeljack most likely built the suits before his death at Autobot city, and probably built loads of em..

hmm i always thought that was wreckgar. then again they were all identical and interchangeable, apart from minor decorative differences. horns here, a mustachio there.

wheeljack may have had a hand in building them, as may have spike, as may have any autobot. its never been answered so we dont know. but one thing is certain: that was not human technology.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
ok so again this about the MOVIE since this is a MOVIE VERSUS FORUM.

there are 4 transformers movies to date, 3 of which are michael bay abortions.

I dont know why i have to go on explaining this, so i wont. just know that by your insistence to the contrary you are opening your retort with complete falsehood.

Oh stop whining over pedantic sideshows that have nothing to do with my original point. The point being that there are several versions of G1 Unicron. All I asked for, thread starter, is clarification as to what the one in this VS has access to. I don't think anyone who does their research should have to concern themselves with pedantacism like you seem to.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
how do you get to that conclusion? you said nothing to counter my point on the pinchers being easily destroyed. yes, they ran from the pinchers. they ran from many things

Ran from many things? Inside Unicron? name 1 other thing... Please.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
lol @ "2". you need to watch the film again

Ok, 3... out of dozens of the things, in a trapped corridor... Your grasping for straws REALLY hard here.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
i did not. earlier in another thread i speculated such considering the telepathic bond between human and exosuit, but i never used that as evidence. i was referring to lining up a shot. does "siting" make you happy or do you need to play semantic games for the win? or are you just gimping the exosuit by saying its impossible to aim shots?

Considering the ONE time we see the reverse elbow blasters used in the movie actually fire, Danny fired several shots while "waggling" before striking a stationary target. The only other visible weapon on the damn thing never gets fired until the Season 4 Headmasters episodes... where he becomes Arcee's head... If you want to go an utterly ridiculous road like that....

Originally posted by focus4chumps
nowhere was it said that spike built the exosuit. and again you have no way of quantifying fuel capacity, be it energon or diesel.

Heh, you didn't pay attention then. Arcee specifically cited that the Suit given to Daniel was Spike's, And Daniel specifically mentions Spike explaining it to him. Now... We already know Spike has spend most of his teen and adult life with the Autobots and their tech, including tinkering and repairing them alongside Sparkplug, and that Daniel has spent ALL his life with them, And given that the Whitwicky family has practically limitless access to Autobot tech, And your telling me that Spike could not do it?

Oh for christ sake, talk about scemantics... Are you now going to tell me that you think they have Gundam Style microfusion reactors with limitless energy? Please man... My point was, and is, that no matter how long the fuel lasts, it will be effectively drained long before anything noticable is done to Unicron. Your constant whining about how long the fuel reserves last does not actually do anything to counter this point.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
adjectives for the sake of puffery are fun, but the suits were built specifically for humans to operate. a 10 year old boy learned it without a specific instruction on how to operate it besides encouraging his mental bond with it. later he does a full-air flip, transforms, knocks down 2 decepticons, knocks down a wreckgar, fires blasters, all with NO instruction.

Bullshit. Read above. Daniel had prior instruction from Spike, whom, even if you DON'T want to beleive created the suits despite specific lines, he WAS however an operator of it prior to Daniel, and was currently piloting a second one.

He trips over, 4 times, including after said air-flip, and once inside Unicron, well after ramming through 2 unprepared Decepticons. Don't try to overrate the damn thing.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
i can tell by your bitter and over aggressive style that you are presently defending someone's honor, but please form at least one substantial point before typing up another essay of nothing said. if you really had a solid topic-slaying point, you could end this thread with a sentence. not a scatterbrained dissertation.

Sorry, I'm not going to compensate for your beer goggles.

Instead, why don't you explain to me how the Willis clones actaully manage to pull this one off without the aid of the Matrix, and lacking any weapons capable of doing more than marring his inner hull armor before they get absolutely slaughtered? Because seriously, playing your shitty scemantics games is getting boring and is completely circumventing the salient question. Especially considering NONE of these men have any experience in dealing with anything like this, ever.

Oh, and buy the way, it's nice to see how you cut half of my post out and didn't respond at all to it. Good job ignoring valid points.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Oh stop whining over pedantic sideshows that have nothing to do with my original point. The point being that there are several versions of G1 Unicron. All I asked for, thread starter, is clarification as to what the one in this VS has access to. I don't think anyone who does their research should have to concern themselves with pedantacism like you seem to.


what part of "movie versus forum" do you have difficulty comprehending?

you're just doing a lot of barking and posturing.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
what part of "movie versus forum" do you have difficulty comprehending?

you're just doing a lot of barking and posturing.

Concession accepted, if the only thing you can do is whine about irrelevant side points, then your argument is already lost.

Especially since your OP pretty much breaks the rules Impediment set in place with This. And this is why I asked for clarification.

Still, since you have seemingly given up and not answered a single other point at all, i'm going to say that Unicron wastes the Willis clones, because you don't have a single relevant point to counter it with.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Concession accepted

lol its a plague

"*BARK BARK BARK* concession accepted"

Originally posted by focus4chumps
lol its a plague

"*BARK BARK BARK* concession accepted"

Ya know what, I'm reporting this because it's obvious trolling and for no ther reason than to be a smart@$$. I'm not having it.

oh dear and i bought all these unicron party hats and dinnerware for the kids.

let me walk you along a bit and maybe you'll find your way:

1-the most common manifestation of trolling is name calling (see your last post)

2-you are likely not as big a deal here as you think you are.

3-until michael bay gets around to ruining it, there was only one cinematic representation of unicron and it occured in 1986.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
oh dear and i bought all these unicron party hats and dinnerware for the kids.

let me walk you along a bit and maybe you'll find your way:

1-the most common manifestation of trolling is name calling (see your last post)

2-you are likely not as big a deal here as you think you are.

3-until michael bay gets around to ruining it, there was only one cinematic representation of unicron and it occured in 1986.

I don't need someone who is pretending to be respectable and failing miserably to try and "walk" me anywhere.

#1: Incorrect, that is flaming, trolling is essentially baiting and failing to answer anything but to have a stab.

#2: Being a "Big Deal" is irrelevant. I've been here for 8 years, and that is also irrelevant. what is relevant is the debate, in which you are coming up tragically short.

#3: Again, not the salient issue, I know which movie you are reffering to, BUT, as I have said repeatedly, that is G1 Unicron, and there are many representations of G1 Unicron. If we are going by purely movie only visual representations, taht is fine, please make this clear. However, that particular incarnation is the radical inconcistency of not only scale, but of feats and capabilities as well. Do you see now why I requested verification?

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
If we are going by purely movie only visual representations, taht is fine, please make this clear.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
what part of "movie versus forum" do you have difficulty comprehending?

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111005232859/sonicfanon/images/0/07/Edgeworth-shrug.gif

........

This is like dealing with a brain dead monkey...

Nor does it answer any of the other points I raised so basically this is a dead thread with a person who enjoys worshipping Bruce Willis's..... Nevermind.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

This is like dealing with a brain dead monkey...

Nor does it answer any of the other points I raised so basically this is a dead thread with a person who enjoys worshipping Bruce Willis's..... Nevermind.

good god man how long and to what extent do you intend on embarrassing yourself?

if you have no concept of film canon then i suppose there is no hope for you to achieve reason here. cry?

Originally posted by focus4chumps
good god man how long and to what extent do you intend on embarrassing yourself?

if you have no concept of film canon then i suppose there is no hope for you to achieve reason here. cry?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Eh07rqWBM54/RqQMQYGzPSI/AAAAAAAAADM/OzJwIR2cMow/s320/missingthepoint.gif

I guess I'm used to dealing with people that know the concept of extended canon. Instead I get you and your bawwing about not putting any carification effort and merely point to the title of the forum, failing to read Impediments rules entirely reguarding the creations of Opening posts as a kicker.

Sorry kid, I've got better things to do that to watch you warble so far off the mark that the point is on the other side of the universe.

im not going to entertain this sillyness by spamming the title of this forum subdirectory which you still fail to comprehend. so really there is nowhere to take this.

i know you really really REAAAAAALLY want your favorite transformers cartoon to be among the original's film canon but its factually NOT. its not even in the same continuity. but go ahead and play clownish semantics games to try to backpeddle out of your fail.

"extended canon". lol nice try

DSZ...Its a movie vs Forum. Extended canon has NEVER worked here. Go ahead and try that in a Star Wars thread and see where bringing up 'Splinter of the mind's eye' feats gets you...

Originally posted by focus4chumps
im not going to entertain this sillyness by spamming the title of this forum subdirectory which you still fail to comprehend. so really there is nowhere to take this.

Thats because, as I said, it is IRRELEVANT. You simply refuse to follow the simple rules Impediment layed out, and spluttered your constant refference. Thats not my fault that you can't seem to understand that information exists outside of pure movie analysis, inluding the rest of the G1 toons that the movie is based in, charactetr profiles that the characters are based on, which are included in the movie DVD... But ohhh no, because the OP fails at research and preffers being a lazy troll, we get this drivel.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
i know you really really REAAAAAALLY want your favorite transformers cartoon to be among the original's film canon but its factually NOT. its not even in the same continuity. but go ahead and play clownish semantics games to try to backpeddle out of your fail.

"extended canon". lol nice try

Nope, I don't care if one character wins over another, as long as they do so legitimately, instead of the constant gimping and pure lack of knowlege nor desire to aquire that knowlege reigns supreme. It seems that, in my absence, many of the VS topics that circulate these days pretty much involve fap fests rather than legitimately trying to determine a winner at all... dontgetit

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
DSZ...Its a movie vs Forum. Extended canon has NEVER worked here. Go ahead and try that in a Star Wars thread and see where bringing up 'Splinter of the mind's eye' feats gets you...

There is a reason for Canon scale in Star Wars. Sadako. Like I said, I do most of my debating in Space Battles these days, where Analysis is regulary done, but is not the sole source of information, nor are feats.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Thats because, as I said, it is IRRELEVANT.



LOL!!! "the forum title is not relevant".

G1 is the only relevant material as the movie was birthed from that cartoon and not vice versa. beastwars and the rest of that gayness has nothing at all to do with the film cannon of the 1986 film

but dont let my trollish facts ruin your day. maybe you should report me again

http://i1322.photobucket.com/albums/u561/focus4chumps/2316fa00-67f3-4c24-81e3-d65e0a403a82_zps089e4167.jpg

Originally posted by focus4chumps
LOL!!! "the forum title is not relevant".

G1 is the only relevant material as the movie was birthed from that cartoon and not vice versa. beastwars and the rest of that gayness has nothing at all to do with the film cannon of the 1986 film

maybe you should report me again

http://i1322.photobucket.com/albums/u561/focus4chumps/2316fa00-67f3-4c24-81e3-d65e0a403a82_zps089e4167.jpg

Not a fan of study still eh?

The G1 series started with the comics, actually.

Beast Wars actually runs in from G1, that is canon despite your protest, as is Beast Machines.

And, just as a kicker for you, Simon Furman, the canon authority on all transformers writing as per hasbro, has stated that ALL unicrons are one and the same, they are all linked, and are all the same being.

So, what do you have to say about that?

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Thats because, as I said, it is IRRELEVANT. You simply refuse to follow the simple rules Impediment layed out, and spluttered your constant refference.

Its not irrelevant in the slightest.
You seem to be ignoring the 'Movie feats only' rule.

"The MVF Golden Rule:
What is seen on screen is canon in these forums. If your character you wish to use has feats/actions/handicaps that contradict what that character did on screen (movie canon), then it is a violation and is illegal. MOVIE FEATS ONLY!"
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f102/t543649.html



Here and in the SW section there is a strict 'No EU rule'.

the G1 incarnation of unicron was borrowed and recreated with a completely different backstory for series/movie continuity. in the series unicron was actually created by the quintesons.


oops guess you fail again. cry more.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Not a fan of study still eh?

The G1 series started with the comics, actually.

Beast Wars actually runs in from G1, that is canon despite your protest, as is Beast Machines.

And, just as a kicker for you, Simon Furman, the canon authority on all transformers writing as per hasbro, has stated that ALL unicrons are one and the same, they are all linked, and are all the same being.

So, what do you have to say about that?

Furman: Did the UK Comics pre 1989/US comics after 1989... He wrote his stroies AROUND what Bob and the crew in New York did, as he was no concern to them til 1989.

Flint Dille, Jim Shooter and mainly Bob Budiansky were the canon guys for marvel/Hasbro. Bob gave Simon the job in 1989. Three/four years after the movie was made.

Comics= Totally different form the movies especially regarding Unicron and his origins. Maybe hes unified them, but we are talking about the 1986 animated movie.


More on how 'involved' Furman was with Bob and the crew here..
http://rustingcarcass.yuku.com/topic/954/t/Bob-Budiansky.html#.UVxrfaukdG4

"CARCASS: Later on, how acute was your awareness of Simon Furman and the concurrent Marvel UK series?

BOB: How acute? (laughs) You make it sound like he's a disease! He's a pain in my side! No, I was aware of it, but I wasn't really paying much attention to it. I knew that the Marvel UK series came out weekly. They would fill in two weeks with my story and then they would have to fill in two weeks with their story. As Simon, I'm sure has been quoted on a couple of occasions has said, he had to figure out stories that were around my storyline. So I really didn't pay much attention to what he was doing, frankly. I didn't communicate with him or consult with him or coordinate anything with him, I just did my stories the way I was doing them and he had to worry about fitting his stuff around whatever I did. Whether he did a good job about it or not, I really don't know. I know Simon's a terrific writer. I'm sure he was able to handle the situation, but it wasn't really my concern. As years went on, Simon would come to the Marvel offices and we became friends and so in February of '89, I reached the point where I really didn't want to do the Transformers anymore, I didn't want to write it anymore. I was actually on vacation in England and stopped in London and met Simon for lunch and I said, "I'm done with this, you wanna take it over?" (laughs) That's how the deal was struck, but to be honest, I had no authority as a writer to hand over the writing reigns to another writer; that's the editor's job. But my editor back in New York, Don Daley, was happy. He knew Simon also. He was happy to have Simon come aboard and replace me. So, we had this historic luncheon somewhere in London (Simon remembers it far better than I do) where he took over. "

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Its not irrelevant in the slightest.
You seem to be ignoring the 'Movie feats only' rule.

"The MVF Golden Rule:
What is seen on screen is canon in these forums. If your character you wish to use has feats/actions/handicaps that contradict what that character did on screen (movie canon), then it is a violation and is illegal. MOVIE FEATS ONLY!"
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f102/t543649.html

Here and in the SW section there is a strict 'No EU rule'.

So, lets job and discount primary canon for it then, fine fine, whatever, it still does not discount any of my other points he failed to address, all of that was purely movie based, and he decided to focus on purely the first point because he knows that is the ONLY onje he had anything on. But thats fine, that one and only that one point i can concede without concern.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
the G1 incarnation of unicron was borrowed and recreated with a completely different backstory for series/movie continuity. in the series unicron was actually created by the quintesons.


oops guess you fail again. cry more.

Incorrect once again, he was created by Primacron, as per Call Of The Primitives.

You can't even cite sources correctly....

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
So, lets job and discount

no, its you frantically trying to warp forum rules to the benefit of your butthurt, and include irrelevant comic book canon which clearly falls out of the series continuity in many aspects, most notably being UNICRON. cry.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Incorrect once again, he was created by Primacron, as per Call Of The Primitives.

You can't even cite sources correctly....

in G1 movie/series continuity he was created by the quintesons. its a fact and if you did a little research instead of flying off on your infantile tantrums you would know this.

In the comic (which you claimed came first and therefore implied superiority canon wise) which usually I'd agree with, Unicron and Primus were fundimental light/dark good/evil positive/negative forces in the universe from the astral plain that used asteroids to help manifest physical bodies in the physical plain, making bodies out of the ores until Unicron had his body and Primus became Cybertron. This was a Simon Furman story.

SO YES. IN THE COMICS no doubt all Unicrons are the same one, in the stories he'd write, and subsequent, but in Movie and cartoon canon, its a different ball of wax.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
no, its you frantically trying to warp forum rules to the benefit of your butthurt, and include irrelevant comic book canon which clearly falls out of the series continuity in many aspects, most notably being UNICRON. cry.

I didn't even state anything to do with comic canon you liar. What I said was "clarify which version" to which you bawwed like a b!tch. Asking for clarification as per OP rules is not me introducing other elements.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Furman: Did the UK Comics pre 1989/US comics after 1989... He wrote his stroies AROUND what Bob and the crew in New York did, as he was no concern to them til 1989.

Flint Dille, Jim Shooter and mainly Bob Budiansky were the canon guys for marvel/Hasbro. Bob gave Simon the job in 1989. Three/four years after the movie was made.

Comics= Totally different form the movies especially regarding Unicron and his origins. Maybe hes unified them, but we are talking about the 1986 animated movie.


More on how 'involved' Furman was with Bob and the crew here..
http://rustingcarcass.yuku.com/topic/954/t/Bob-Budiansky.html#.UVxrfaukdG4

When I made that statement, I was reffering to Transformers The Ultimate Guide, which came out in 2004, alongside the Dreamwave MTMTE Encyclopedia. It is the latest in the Movie's and G1 series canon in particular. If we are reffering to prior cannon that is no longer correct, then you will have to forgive me for being more up to date than what the forum allows.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
in G1 movie/series continuity he was created by the quintesons. its a fact and if you did a little research instead of flying off on your infantile tantrums you would know this.

I suppose me citing the episode in the G1 toon that this is explained specifically is not enough for you. This proves you are a know-nothing troll.

CMS9cn0CzCk

Watch and be amazed at what you will learn

The TFS universe (which was what was the bible moreorless) noted that there was a relationship between the Quintessons and Unicron. They were likened to heralds/enforcers for him.
An easy mistake for FFC to have made, and one Ive made mysefl in the past.

But this is all strawman, as your 'up to date' source of Furman disavows Primacron completely in his origin story.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

I suppose me citing the episode in the G1 toon that this is explained specifically is not enough for you.

it appears i was mistaken.
oh dont get excited, you're still wrong.

in the G1 series, unicron was created by primacron. a gremlin-looking being who had nothing at all to do with your "authority" on TF canon.

dP5uRSIZ6eg

http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Primacron_(G1)

so your precious point on canon is moot. have a nice day. cry?



Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
this proves you are a know-nothing troll.

right, im the troll. i dont know why i keep arguing with you. i should just let the baby have his way and save the discussion.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Not a fan of study still eh?

The G1 series started with the comics, actually.

Beast Wars actually runs in from G1, that is canon despite your protest, as is Beast Machines.

And, just as a kicker for you, Simon Furman, the canon authority on all transformers writing as per hasbro, has stated that ALL unicrons are one and the same, they are all linked, and are all the same being.

So, what do you have to say about that?


Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
I didn't even state anything to do with comic canon you liar.



Umm as shown, you kinda did. You tried to say that Simon Furman (Comic canon writer) was now the canon.

k so i suppose that ends the clown show. and now back to our regularly scheduled exo-suit gimping.

_70TAZPStzQ

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Umm as shown, you kinda did. You tried to say that Simon Furman (Comic canon writer) was now the canon.

No, now you've gotten my points confused.

What I was pointing out was that there are several incarnations of G1.

#1: there are the comics, of which the canon gets regularly retconned into it's current form. This is the primary canon.

#2: There is the G1 toons, which, while they are still g1, it has it's own separate canon that is distinctly different from the comics. Essentially the toons are big advertisements for the toys.

Besides this, I already dropped the comic canon thing anyways, why is this still being brought up?

I was reffering to the points I brought up way earlier in the thread, to which FFC stopped responding when he decided only to focus on the one point at the start. None of those have anything to do with the comics.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
it appears i was mistaken.
oh dont get excited, you're still wrong.

in the G1 series, unicron was created by primacron. a gremlin-looking being who had nothing at all to do with your "authority" on TF canon.

dP5uRSIZ6eg

http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Primacron_(G1)

so your precious point on canon is moot. have a nice day. cry?

*Head-desk repeatedly*

You are dysfunctional... seriously. You're not even reading anymore, You quote, but your not reading before you write. You can't even follow a conversation. You completely screwed my points up and tried to turn them into something else. I TOLD you that furman did the primary canon, and he did the continuity reconciliation. Then you brought in the rule, and I dropped that point, but yet you want to try and use it to debunk a completely different point.... You sir are an IDIOT!

Originally posted by focus4chumps
right, im the troll. i dont know why i keep arguing with you. i should just let the baby have his way and save the discussion.

Yes, you ARE the troll, and the above quote proves it beyond any shadow of doubt.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
No, now you've gotten my points confused.

What I was pointing out was that there are several incarnations of G1.

#1: there are the comics, of which the canon gets regularly retconned into it's current form. This is the primary canon.

#2: There is the G1 toons, which, while they are still g1, it has it's own separate canon that is distinctly different from the comics. Essentially the toons are big advertisements for the toys.

Besides this, I already dropped the comic canon thing anyways, why is this still being brought up?

I was reffering to the points I brought up way earlier in the thread, to which FFC stopped responding when he decided only to focus on the one point at the start. None of those have anything to do with the comics.



*Head-desk repeatedly*

You are dysfunctional... seriously. You're not even reading anymore, You quote, but your not reading before you write. You can't even follow a conversation. You completely screwed my points up and tried to turn them into something else. I TOLD you that furman did the primary canon, and he did the continuity reconciliation. Then you brought in the rule, and I dropped that point, but yet you want to try and use it to debunk a completely different point.... You sir are an IDIOT!



Yes, you ARE the troll, and the above quote proves it beyond any shadow of doubt.


you should just stop embarrassing yourself now.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
you should just stop embarrassing yourself now.

You should just answer the earlier points or concede. Either way, I win, and you can stop chugging Brucie's loads now. I think he is a bit red raw at this point.

all of your fallacious canonical weeping was put to sleep and now you're mad about it. thus your infantile tantrums and name calling. cry more.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
all of your fallacious canonical weeping was put to sleep and now you're mad about it. thus your infantile tantrums and name calling. cry more.

Ok, ya know what, I'm going to spell this out for you, point by point, so you and everyone else can see that you are incapable of understanding the dissemination of points here.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
No, but millions of years worth of experience in variable combat situations is far better than a washed up boxer, a cop and a taxi driver. The only one who can say he has comparable experience in terms of military situations is Duke.

However, being in the midst of a 9 million year war, and surviving against better armed and armored fighters like the Decepticons in god knows how many firefights tells us absolute shitloads as to her survivability, which is literally thouseands of orders of magnitude compared to any of the Willis clones. Combine that with her knowlege of robotics, and a weapon more advanced that an Earth made Exo Suit using Cybertronian tech.... Not to mention that the pistol your trying to dowplay due to it's size actually laid waste to several Sharkticons on it's own. Understand that the size of a weapon does not always determine it's effectiveness and destructive capability. if size was all that mattered, then Megatron would have basically ammounted to a pop-gun, when we know that is not the case.

You never answered this point at all. I see nothing reguarding your pithy reliance of comic critique here at all, this all came from the movie.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Ran from many things? Inside Unicron? name 1 other thing... Please.



Ok, 3... out of dozens of the things, in a trapped corridor... Your grasping for straws REALLY hard here.



Considering the ONE time we see the reverse elbow blasters used in the movie actually fire, Danny fired several shots while "waggling" before striking a stationary target. The only other visible weapon on the damn thing never gets fired until the Season 4 Headmasters episodes... where he becomes Arcee's head... If you want to go an utterly ridiculous road like that....



Heh, you didn't pay attention then. Arcee specifically cited that the Suit given to Daniel was Spike's, And Daniel specifically mentions Spike explaining it to him. Now... We already know Spike has spend most of his teen and adult life with the Autobots and their tech, including tinkering and repairing them alongside Sparkplug, and that Daniel has spent ALL his life with them, And given that the Whitwicky family has practically limitless access to Autobot tech, And your telling me that Spike could not do it?

Oh for christ sake, talk about scemantics... Are you now going to tell me that you think they have Gundam Style microfusion reactors with limitless energy? Please man... My point was, and is, that no matter how long the fuel lasts, it will be effectively drained long before anything noticable is done to Unicron. Your constant whining about how long the fuel reserves last does not actually do anything to counter this point.



Bullshit. Read above. Daniel had prior instruction from Spike, whom, even if you DON'T want to beleive created the suits despite specific lines, he WAS however an operator of it prior to Daniel, and was currently piloting a second one.

He trips over, 4 times, including after said air-flip, and once inside Unicron, well after ramming through 2 unprepared Decepticons. Don't try to overrate the damn thing.



Sorry, I'm not going to compensate for your beer goggles.

Instead, why don't you explain to me how the Willis clones actaully manage to pull this one off without the aid of the Matrix, and lacking any weapons capable of doing more than marring his inner hull armor before they get absolutely slaughtered? Because seriously, playing your shitty scemantics games is getting boring and is completely circumventing the salient question. Especially considering NONE of these men have any experience in dealing with anything like this, ever.

Oh, and buy the way, it's nice to see how you cut half of my post out and didn't respond at all to it. Good job ignoring valid points.

And then, you missed all of this in my very next post and decided to focus solely on one point and conveniently focused on the one thing you could get me to concede on, so congrats, you win one out of about 8, I still win the majority.

~Have a nice day kid.

Who is Brucie?

Originally posted by Robtard
Who is Brucie?

bruce willis. he's choosing a multi-angled line of clowning.

my favorite so far is the "deny fact, demand evidence, then ignore evidence". dont know why i keep feeding this troll.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
No, now you've gotten my points confused.

What I was pointing out was that there are several incarnations of G1.

#1: there are the comics, of which the canon gets regularly retconned into it's current form. This is the primary canon.

#2: There is the G1 toons, which, while they are still g1, it has it's own separate canon that is distinctly different from the comics. Essentially the toons are big advertisements for the toys.


Yes, I followed it from UK issue number 3 and am well aware of the differences in format between Marvel and Sunbow versions, thank you.

The new stuff still moves around the events of G1.
And according to you having just single handedly elected Simon Furman as sole Canon manager, Unicron has his origins.




Because you accused someone here of being a liar, denying that you'd bought it up at all. (When you had.)

But if you've now acknowledged that, you could maybe apologise for calling that person a liar for pointing out something you had indeed done, and move in accordance with good form...

Originally posted by focus4chumps
bruce willis. he's choosing a multi-angled line of clowning.


Oh, he's pulling a Lestov ie claim the other poster is having sexual relations with McClane.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero


I suppose me citing the episode in the G1 toon that this is explained specifically is not enough for you. This proves you are a know-nothing troll.

*i present damning evidence*

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero


Besides this, I already dropped the comic canon thing anyways, why is this still being brought up?


http://i1322.photobucket.com/albums/u561/focus4chumps/stupidclown_zps2fb146fb.jpg

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Yes, I followed it from UK issue number 3 and am well aware of the differences in format between Marvel and Sunbow versions, thank you.

The new stuff still moves around the events of G1.
And according to you having just single handedly elected Simon Furman as sole Canon manager, Unicron has his origins.

All I said was that the two continuities are distincly different. He wants to use toonverse G1, and thats fine. Even if it is also the single most inconsistent one available.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Because you accused someone here of being a liar, denying that you'd bought it up at all. (When you had.)

But if you've now acknowledged that, you could maybe apologise for calling that person a liar for pointing out something you had indeed done, and move in accordance with good form...

I'm not apollogising, because he re-raised that point well after I dropped it. he wanted to bring it back up to have a stab, so thats not my fault. I take responsability for my own actions, but I will not take responsability for someone else retrenching a previously downed point because he cannot let it go.

just go have a good scream in your pillow. stop making an embarrassing trolly spectacle of yourself.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
*i present damning evidence*




http://i1322.photobucket.com/albums/u561/focus4chumps/stupidclown_zps2fb146fb.jpg

Your loopy... There is no denying it....

The episode "Call Of The Primitives" is from the toon, not from the comics, exactly as you demanded. And I presented that video to prove you were wrong about the quintesson thing. After the rule thing, I did drop the comics line entirely, then YOU brought it back up.

And you still failed to answer my points.... What the ever living hell man?

Originally posted by focus4chumps
bruce willis. he's choosing a multi-angled line of clowning.

my favorite so far is the "deny fact, demand evidence, then ignore evidence". dont know why i keep feeding this troll.

How can i deny evidence that has never been shown on your part? You never answered my points, you never presented any evidence, all you did was point up like it meant something.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
All I said was that the two continuities are distincly different. He wants to use toonverse G1, and thats fine. Even if it is also the single most inconsistent one available.

But you denied mentioning it...then called, unfairly, him a liar for his pointing out that you had mentioned it.



But again: You denied mentioning it then called him unfairly him a liar for having pointed out that you were talking Comics canon.*
You dropped it after unfairly calling him a liar.

(*When "movie canon and movie canon only" is the name of the game here...)

but its ok, you already conceited the fallacious canon point and admitted your time-wasting clown tactics. well you should have by now anyway.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Your loopy... There is no denying it....

The episode "Call Of The Primitives" is from the toon, not from the comics, exactly as you demanded. And I presented that video to prove you were wrong about the quintesson thing. After the rule thing, I did drop the comics line entirely, then YOU brought it back up.




But the G1 toon is inadmissible here, isn't it... Only movie feats/canon.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
But you denied mentioning it...then called, unfairly, him a liar for his pointing out that you had mentioned it.

Because he had used to to try and down an actually valid point for no reason.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
But again: You denied mentioning it then called him unfairly him a liar for having pointed out that you were talking Comics canon.*
You dropped it after unfairly calling him a liar.

(*When "movie canon and movie canon only" is the name of the game here...)

Because he had used to to try and down an actually valid point for no reason. I'm sorry, but thats not going to fly, I dropped it, and then he used it as ammo in the next point that had nothing to do with it, as a means to discredit and handwave away a legit point.

on that topic: im not sure about the G1 cartoon, since it begat the movie and continued it. just to be safe i assumed it best to leave it out. forum rules matter to some of us, even when not playing "big dog of the forum" and trying to report everyone whilst trolling and weeping.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
but its ok, you already conceited the fallacious canon point and admitted your time-wasting clown tactics. well you should have by now anyway.

It was not a clown tactic, I legitimately did not see that statute in the rules, thats a LITTLE different from doing it on purpose with the intent to actually cause distress to someone.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
But the G1 toon is inadmissible here, isn't it... Only movie feats/canon.

Not according to the OP who started this whole mess...

Well they have to conform to Movie only feats.
Its the rules.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
It was not a clown tactic, I legitimately did not see that statute in the rules, thats a LITTLE different from doing it on purpose with the intent to actually cause distress to someone.


says the self proclaimed rule-expert



Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Concession accepted, if the only thing you can do is whine about irrelevant side points, then your argument is already lost.

Especially since your OP pretty much breaks the rules Impediment set in place with This. And this is why I asked for clarification.

Still, since you have seemingly given up and not answered a single other point at all, i'm going to say that Unicron wastes the Willis clones, because you don't have a single relevant point to counter it with.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Ya know what, I'm reporting this because it's obvious trolling and for no ther reason than to be a smart@$$. I'm not having it.

http://i1322.photobucket.com/albums/u561/focus4chumps/stupidclown_zps2fb146fb.jpg

Well SG, here is what he said earlier...

Originally posted by focus4chumps
LOL!!! "the forum title is not relevant".

G1 is the only relevant material as the movie was birthed from that cartoon and not vice versa. beastwars and the rest of that gayness has nothing at all to do with the film cannon of the 1986 film

*Shrugs*

Originally posted by focus4chumps
says the self proclaimed rule-enforcer

yeah, cute, keep on trying.

that was a reference to continuity, not film canon. any more out-of-context quotes? or do you need another round of pillow-screaming first?

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
yeah, cute, keep on trying.

and there it is.

another point of blatant hypocrisy thrown in your face and all you can do is dance. grow up and let go of your butthurt. stop derailing and troilling the thread so that the adults can discuss.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
that was a reference to continuity, not film canon. any more out-of-context quotes? or do you need another round of pillow-screaming first?

No, that was you being selective about what is allowed and what is not. And you have no room to speak about out-of-context quotes when you buchered my posts and twist it to whatever suits your fancy and snip out massive chunks you can't argue in the proccess.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
and there it is.

another point of blatant hypocrisy thrown in your face and all you can do is dance. grow up and let go of your butthurt. stop derailing and troilling the thread so that the adults can discuss.

Whats that again? This, from the person who decides he will only argue the one point he can win? The hypocricy is palpable here

The only feats that count for Unicron here are his feats from the 1986 film. You get this now, yes?

*Sigh* For the FINAL time, Will you guys RE-READ My previously ignored points, which I very helpfully reposted in the quotes above? They are ALL from the MOVIE!

I never denied that rule, even if I didnt know about it, all I did with that first point was try to clarify, What else needs to be said Rob?

go back to the drawing board, take out all the canon-fallacies, cease your ridiculous pretend-moderater routine, take out all the childish name calling, proof read, and present a rational argument to suit your case against the McPocalypse.

right now you just look like a screaming infant who had his binky taken away.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
go back to the drawing board, take out all the canon-fallacies, cease your ridiculous pretend-moderater routine, take out all the childish name calling, proof read, and present a rational argument to suit your case against the McPocalypse.

right now you just look like a screaming infant who had his binky taken away.

No Focus, There is no canon fallacy, because that point is gone, I dropped it way back, and you dug it back up.

The name calling started ONLY when you decided it was fun to try and be a smart ass.

Every other point raised, which you failed to adress repeatedly now, still stand, my question to you now is, why won't you address them?

So far, the Willis clones either get eviscerated, or suffocate. Make a rebuttal now, please.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
No Focus, There is no canon fallacy, because that point is gone, I dropped it way back, and you dug it back up.

no, you were proven wrong, continued arguing into the ground for 2 pages, and THEN said you apparently dropped it

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
The name calling started ONLY when you decided it was fun to try and be a smart ass.

hypocricy at its finest. you gonna report me again? baby

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Every other point raised, which you failed to adress repeatedly now, still stand, my question to you now is, why won't you address them?

i can't be bothered to filter through your many fail posts since they were blown to pieces. if there were kernals of valid points which were casualties, then maybe its time you presented a cool-headed rational post instead of "read through my 3 pages of raging butthurt"


Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
So far, the Willis clones either get eviscerated, or suffocate. Make a rebuttal now, please.

evidence please

How would they get eviscerated or suffocated...? Those very fragile breakable pincers that were only present in one little section of Unicron's fragile innards?

Originally posted by focus4chumps
no, you were proven wrong, continued arguing into the ground for 2 pages, and THEN said you apparently dropped it

No, SG actually showed me in the rules were it was, because I hadn't seen it. Once I read it properly, THEN I dropped it, and you did nothing at all, so don't claim credit for that one.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
hypocricy at its finest. you gonna report me again? baby

Right, whatever floats your boat, helps you sleep, ect ect.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
i can't be bothered to filter through your many fail posts since they were blown to pieces. if there were kernals of valid points which were casualties, then maybe its time you presented a cool-headed rational post instead of "read through my 3 pages of raging butthurt"

Your the one who failed to address points, the only one you focused on was because I had made a mistake, that doesnt exclude you from debating the rest of the points and throw around ad hominem. I already quoted the points, read them.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
evidence please

The claws for one, in which was able to pierce Unicrons inner hull armor, and caused enough fear in Transformers to cause them to flee. The suffocation happens when they run out of juice, unles your going to go "ACT OF R.O.B" and jury rig the things with everlasting generators.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
How would they get eviscerated or suffocated...? Those very fragile breakable pincers that were only present in one little section of Unicron's fragile innards?

Uhm, no, those "frail" pincers had chased them a considerable distance, especially considering the whitewash they got, and they were still getting swarmed elsewhere when the Matrix "Detonated".

And read above for the suffocation thing.

They ran from many things... Willises dont run much, by screenfeats. Especially one could imagine, with in 4 exosuits.
Lots of things penetrated Unicrons hull armour:

*Swoop's missiles,

*Sludge's tail whacking it,

*Slags firebreath,

*Grimlock's kicks,

*random blaster fire,

*Galvatron being thrown through it...

...it looked pretty old/brittle. (Which figures given Unicron's age in pretty much all continuity we discussed)
The white wash they got was water exploding out from the walls when Arcee's pistol shot through one of the walls, was it not?

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
They ran from many things... Willises dont run much, by screenfeats. Especially one could imagine, with in 4 exosuits.
Lots of things penetrated Unicrons hull armour:

*Swoop's missiles,

*Sludge's tail whacking it,

*Slags firebreath,

*Grimlock's kicks,

*random blaster fire,

*Galvatron being thrown through it...

...it looked pretty old/brittle. (Which figures given Unicron's age in pretty much all continuity we discussed)
The white wash they got was water exploding out from the walls when Arcee's pistol shot through one of the walls, was it not?

Ok, now lets get the damage/firepowercontradiction schenanigans underway eh?

The Dinobots, who create earthquakes and stop tidal waves effortlessly, and are perhaps the most OP individual transformers ever, right? but they somehow get tanked by an exploding plane...

Outside of Arcee managing to rupture a fluid line with 5 shots to the exact same spot, the only other being that managed to do anything noticable was galvatron, a known Planet Killer, and even his shots bounced off Unicrons outer armor like nothing.

THEN, we have the one unbeleivable feat, we have Moonbase 2 exploding INSIDE Unicron, without any effect whatsoever.

http://i.imgflip.com/ypfg.jpg

Hmmmmmm are you citing non movie feats again? Yes I think you are.... inconsistencies aside, we have to go with what was seen in the movie, and in the movie only...

We saw them get their asses handed to them (save slag) by Devastator...that was pretty much their top feat in the movie.

Im sorry, but Galvatron killed how many planets in the movie? The point is he was thrown through this old armour.

Unicron was in Planet mode and much of the explosive energy was dissipated outside of the open obviously-designed-tough maw, as seen in the movie, leaving loads of debris/energy that took moments to clear.

thank you dsz for bringing us properly back to your other-than-film canon tomfoolery.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Hmmmmmm are you citing non movie feats again? Yes I think you are.... inconsistencies aside, we have to go with what was seen in the movie, and in the movie only...

We saw them get their asses handed to them (save slag) by Devastator...that was pretty much their top feat in the movie.

Im sorry, but Galvatron killed how many planets in the movie? The point is he was thrown through this old armour.

Unicron was in Planet mode and much of the explosive energy was dissipated outside of the open obviously-designed-tough maw, as seen in the movie, leaving loads of debris/energy that took moments to clear.

Ignoring the unresponsive OP for a moment.

Even if I remove the stuff from the toons, of which the Movie is a part of, but aside... Devastator handidly kicked arse over most of the DBots solo, and if they had stayed where they were on Unicron, they all would have been oneshotted, a simple clench of the fist forced them to retreat.

The point is that that throw was plot induced by a freshly juiced up Rodimus Prime.

Uhm no, if you look, MB2 was already inside Unicron at the time of detonation. Right at the moment of detonaton is when the last of the curvature dissapears, all thats left is crumbled crust and mantle. The vast majority was already inside. I'll admit that the animation for MB2 going down was faster than either MB1 or Lithone's demise, but it is clear to me.

Imagine the damage they could have done inside...

With respect..So? If Unicrons armour was uber tough, wouldnt Galvatron smashed all over Galvatron's inner walls, if it was all down to Rodimus' temporary crack binge strength? But no it gave away like dry wall...

Yes, not arguing with the fact that it was inside Unicron, but the mouth was open, the energy dissipated/escaped.
All we can do is conclude in either case, is that Unicron was tougher in Planet mode than Robot mode....

his armor was meant for external defense. unicron was not constructed to have a war going on in his liver. he had the means to re-collect runaways easily but an armed platoon is something different as the movie proved.

his insides are obviously relatively tender if walls can collapse from shooting with a pistol or throwing a hunk of metal at it. to deny this is clown dancing in its purest form.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Imagine the damage they could have done inside...

Yes, but their damage output FAR outshines anything the Willises could EVER do, so this is a moot point.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
With respect..So? If Unicrons armour was uber tough, wouldnt Galvatron smashed all over Galvatron's inner walls, if it was all down to Rodimus' temporary crack binge strength? But no it gave away like dry wall...

Except that crack binge was literally Unicron's kryptonite on roids.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Yes, not arguing with the fact that it was inside Unicron, but the mouth was open, the energy dissipated/escaped.
All we can do is conclude in either case, is that Unicron was tougher in Planet mode than Robot mode....

Explosive force doesn't just vent out, Unicron copped more than 90% of the initial force to his insides, only the smallest portion of that would have gotten out.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
his armor was meant for external defense. unicron was not constructed to have a war going on in his liver. he had the means to re-collect runaways easily but an armed platoon is something different as the movie proved.

his insides are obviously relatively tender if walls can collapse from shooting with a pistol or throwing a hunk of metal at it. to deny this is clown dancing in its purest form.

Yes, but once again, this is feat skewing. This still pretty much ignores the Moon Base 2 scene, meaning we are back to picking and choosing which feats suit our arguments, and ignoring the other.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Yes, but their damage output FAR outshines anything the Willises could EVER do, so this is a moot point.


Those exosuits are capable of blasting holes in things just like the non-concussive forces of Slag and Swoop and Arcee's pistol.



No. Because were talking about Unicron's own creation being flung through him...Not Rodimus throwing the The Matrix through him.



Energy dissipates taking the path of least resistance, also I already said that Unicrons a lot tougher in Planet mode especially in the mouth area - which has to munch planets..



Nope. It was already addressed logically.. Unicron being tougher in planet mode and partial dissipation/energy following the path of least resistance.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Those exosuits are capable of blasting holes in things just like the non-concussive forces of Slag and Swoop and Arcee's pistol.

The only evidence of firepower we have reguarding the suits in-movie is the blast down on a hydraulic arm on a vat lid. Daniel's missed shots were never seen scoring actual hull.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
No. Because were talking about Unicron's own creation being flung through him...Not Rodimus throwing the The Matrix through him.

While the power of the Matrix is storming all around the joint?

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Energy dissipates taking the path of least resistance, also I already said that Unicrons a lot tougher in Planet mode especially in the mouth area - which has to munch planets..

And with no supporting evidence, especially in light of Megatron being able to dig furrows in Unicron's tusks earlier, and the tusks being at least equally as armored as the teeth, given that the tusks are the first things that dig into a target planet. This is still feat skewing, because for every argument one can make reguarding this, there will be an equally valid counter-claim to be made, because consistency is not there... We end up having to take one set of feats over the other.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Nope. It was already addressed logically.. Unicron being tougher in planet mode and partial dissipation/energy following the path of least resistance.

And yet, I have an equally valid bullshit weakness within that same train, If Unicron was armored enough in the front end of his planet mode to survive a moon boom, Megatron should not have been able to scratch a thing on it.

But he did.

Firepower is firepower.
And Unicron is shown as being far less than indestructible.
Be it from Dinobot attack, Galvatron's particle cannon (causing explosion under Hotrod in car mode in the final battle) Arcee's causing a massive flood with her pistol, or even Megatron's clawing holes in Unicron's pincer hundreds of feet long before his reformatting...

But the damage-ability to Unicron was shown as fact BEFORE the opening of the Matrix..

Well it all shows that Unicron was damageable indeed, but that there was so much of him was his strength. And lets face it: We don't know that there wasn't some level of internal damage done when the moonbase detonated...likely there was, judging by everything else we saw...but his size was likely able to contain that damage til any self repair was effected...

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Firepower is firepower.
And Unicron is shown as being far less than indestructible.
Be it from Dinobot attack, Galvatron's particle cannon (causing explosion under Hotrod in car mode in the final battle) Arcee's causing a massive flood with her pistol, or even Megatron's clawing holes in Unicron's pincer hundreds of feet long before his reformatting...

But the damage-ability to Unicron was shown as fact BEFORE the opening of the Matrix..

Well it all shows that Unicron was damageable indeed, but that there was so much of him was his strength. And lets face it: We don't know that there wasn't some level of internal damage done when the moonbase detonated...likely there was, judging by everything else we saw...but his size was likely able to contain that damage til any self repair was effected...

That is a massive assumption that cannot be made though.

The only way to reconcile is the fact that it is wildly inconcistent. This is why analysing the G1 Toons, and even the Movie should not be done. Too many liberties are taken with reguards to plot, artistic license and really, lets be honest here, it is generally a bad idea to use that in a debate of any kind...

I dont think its a massive assumption. I think it can, be actioned on that Unicron clearly wasn't made of pure indestructability, by screen feats.

Well are you saying the movie should never be debated?
Just because it shows Unicron as being made of material that was destructable? The movie was the most consistant that the G1 animated ever got.

I dont think it was inconsistant anyway. As I say: The thing that made Unicorn able to sustain such damage overall was his size. Taking out a building or even a few blocks can be done these days, but to destroy earth? Different thing. Thusly: I dont see Unicron's getting damaged as inconsistant really.

But if this thread isn't to your taste, then feel free to disengage it.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth


Well are you saying the movie should never be debated?

*we have winner*

please pick any prize from the top shelf.

"i dislike the way unicron was portrayed on film so nobody gets to debate it /thread"

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
I dont think its a massive assumption. I think it can, be actioned on that Unicron clearly wasn't made of pure indestructability, by screen feats.

And yet again, Moon base 2 blowing up still proves that both internallyn and externally, he should have pretty much been immune to any small arms weapons. It is, once again catch 22. The moon base 2 event took place on screen, so for these arguments to have meaning, you have to disreguard one set of onscreen feats in favour of the other, one cannot have it both ways because they contradict eachother.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Well are you saying the movie should never be debated?
Just because it shows Unicron as being made of material that was destructable? The movie was the most consistant that the G1 animated ever got.

I don't really care one way or the other who wins, all I'm saying is that for this movie, the feats cancel eachother out. This was the original reason I pressed for clarification earlier.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
I dont think it was inconsistant anyway. As I say: The thing that made Unicorn able to sustain such damage overall was his size. Taking out a building or even a few blocks can be done these days, but to destroy earth? Different thing. Thusly: I dont see Unicron's getting damaged as inconsistant really.

The thing of it is, that moon was about a third his size, and the explosion actually enveloped him, from the inside out. i'm sorry, but this feat puts his durability and damage soak well beyond what the other screen feats portray.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
But if this thread isn't to your taste, then feel free to disengage it.

The thread itself, not so much. The stips put in place? simply make debating the G1 movie too awkward and creates circular debates like this. It's nobody's fault, but it happened.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
I dont think its a massive assumption. I think it can, be actioned on that Unicron clearly wasn't made of pure indestructability, by screen feats.

Well are you saying the movie should never be debated?
Just because it shows Unicron as being made of material that was destructable? The movie was the most consistant that the G1 animated ever got.

I dont think it was inconsistant anyway. As I say: The thing that made Unicorn able to sustain such damage overall was his size. Taking out a building or even a few blocks can be done these days, but to destroy earth? Different thing. Thusly: I dont see Unicron's getting damaged as inconsistant really.

But if this thread isn't to your taste, then feel free to disengage it. He was more than durable enough to survive what the autobots threw at him.

Let's actually recap what managed to do damage.

The Dinobots did superficial damage at best and tehy are some of the most powerful transformers in existence, Galavtron did minor damage to the inside of Unicron despite the fact he can one-shot transformers almost atomizing them in case of Starscream, Arcee made a minor hole inside of a planet-sized transformer, you called it a massive flood but in comparison Unicron might call it a minor blood trickle. A giant space ship was flown through his eye.

Rodimus threw Galvatron threw Unicron who at the time was hopped up on Matrix energy like the Hulk. Remember this is the same Rodimus that was no selling Galvatron's weapon to the chest.

Let's look at what didn't do any damage to him, a moon blowing up and an entire planet of giant sized robots attacking him.

I don't think the group of Transformers inside of him could have taken him down even if you gave them a million years to try.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Hmmmmmm are you citing non movie feats again? Yes I think you are.... inconsistencies aside, we have to go with what was seen in the movie, and in the movie only...

We saw them get their asses handed to them (save slag) by Devastator...that was pretty much their top feat in the movie.

Im sorry, but Galvatron killed how many planets in the movie? The point is he was thrown through this old armour.

Unicron was in Planet mode and much of the explosive energy was dissipated outside of the open obviously-designed-tough maw, as seen in the movie, leaving loads of debris/energy that took moments to clear. I want to clarify something here. Are you saying we can not use feats from the tv show, despite the fact they are the exact same characters and the movie was made using the exact same characters from the show?

Using Star Wars to try and say no is a bad example by the way because they had degrees cannonicity to begin with with what was based on George Lucas' discretion until he sold Star Wars.

Those feats from the show are canon to the characters from the movie.

Originally posted by Newjak
I want to clarify something here. Are you saying we can not use feats from the tv show, despite the fact they are the exact same characters and the movie was made using the exact same characters from the show?

Using Star Wars to try and say no is a bad example by the way because they had degrees cannonicity to begin with with what was based on George Lucas' discretion until he sold Star Wars.

Those feats from the show are canon to the characters from the movie.

Ah, and so I was not entirely wrong afterall... As per mod. Thank you NJ, You made my day

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Ah, and so I was not entirely wrong afterall... As per mod. Thank you NJ, You made my day

Thanks for the vote of confidence but I'm not a mod for this area. I can not make a final verdict on this you can always ask Impediment for a ruling though.

you really dont want the G1 series to be considered part of film canon for this topic or the McPocalypse likely wins. look up "grimlock's new brain" and watch how comically easy it is to get inside unicron's brain and blow shit up. i want unicron to have a chance so im leaving it out.

imho the series could be used as valid backing evidence, but not in the case of scaling/appearence since most of the animation of post-movie seasons were pure crap, and the series in general had more glaring illustration/scale/coloring/etc errors than i could ever count.

the off-scale scenes in the movie were for the sake of drama (astrotrains interior being large enough for devastator to do backflips in, galvatron standing outside of unicron suddenly as tall as metroplex standing on omega supreme's shoulders, this sort of thing), or just a small overlooked error, like unicron's halo appearing in front of the building in the intro, giving him the illusion of being a tiny pest.

back to the series as part of film canon, it would be the same if they came out with a movie for any series, as opposed to vice versa. it would be like forbidding episodes of firefly from a discussion on serenity. however inversely (series based on a movie) it would be a horrible irrational idea to allow it.

of course the views expressed above are my own and not meant as an attempt to impose new rules or to remove existing forum protocol. there's been enough of that here already.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
you really dont want the G1 series to be considered part of film canon for this topic or the McPocalypse likely wins. look up "grimlock's new brain" and watch how comically easy it is to get inside unicron's brain and blow shit up. i want unicron to have a chance so im leaving it out.

Under normal circumstances, the movie & the series are indistinguishable in terms of continuity. *Shrugs*

Uhm, hold on... Gaining access to a brain throuugh a gaping neck hole in a severed head doesn't take rocket science to figure out... You are surely not seriously suggesting it would be that easy going through Unicron's entire body, which is undamaged and fully functioning... compared to just tackling his severed head that has been adrift and non-functional for over a year....