Martian Manhunter vs Gladiator

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armedforbattle
Pre 52 Martian
No prep or BFR
Fight in Sakaar
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/7/75222/2472262-planethulk_crowncity_coliseum.jpg

Round 1: In character
Round 2: Bloodlust on Morals off

carver9
TP has prove to drop Gladiator...without it, Glads 8/10.

abhilegend
J'onn with or without TP wins.

pym-ftw
Manhunter if he fights his fight, he would lose a slug fest though

-Pr-
J'onn should take it regardless of telepathy.

juggerman
Originally posted by carver9
TP has prove to drop Gladiator...

thumb up

Originally posted by carver9
without it, Glads 8/10.

thumb down

Originally posted by -Pr-
J'onn should take it regardless of telepathy.

thumb up

mighty adam
Originally posted by -Pr-
J'onn should take it regardless of telepathy. agreed you seem to know your shit was you around when batdude and the them boys used to post? These new heads on these forums seem kinda stupid.

carver9
Jon doesn't have the fts to suggest he could take Glads for a majority without his TP.

-Pr-
If you read his comics youd know that he has them.

carver9
He has fts but not in the same tier as Glads.

Sin I AM
J'onn for the solid majority....he doesnt get the respect he deserves

-Pr-
Well if we used gladiators actual tier as opposed to your make believe one, things would be different.

carver9
Gladiator is stronger
Faster
More durable
And is carrying around MM weakness.

Don't see how they lose.

Sin I AM
Originally posted by carver9
Gladiator is stronger
Faster
More durable
And is carrying around MM weakness.

Don't see how they lose.


no

yaadaveyaa
Originally posted by carver9
He has fts but not in the same tier as Glads. thumb up

they are in completely different tiers in my opinion glads takes him down

carver9
Originally posted by Sin I AM
no

MM needed help moving a moon...Gladiator moves around planetary bodies solo.
Gladiator has nano second combat speed showings, has blitzed at light speed and has also flown 100 times the speed of light.
Gladiator has swam through Gas Giants...Gladiator has withstood a blast capable of destroying a solar system.

MM doesn't have anything close to this. Sorry bro.

Dampyre
Originally posted by carver9
Gladiator is stronger
Faster
More durable
And is carrying around MM weakness.

Don't see how they lose.

I pretty much agree but the telepathy will make the difference here. Without that, Gladiator would win around 7/10 times. With it, MM wins 6-7/10, IMO.

juggerman
Originally posted by carver9
MM needed help moving a moon...Gladiator moves around planetary bodies solo.
Gladiator has nano second combat speed showings, has blitzed at light speed and has also flown 100 times the speed of light.
Gladiator has swam through Gas Giants...Gladiator has withstood a blast capable of destroying a solar system.

MM doesn't have anything close to this. Sorry bro.

Intangibility

TheGodKiller
Manjobber wins.

playa1258
Originally posted by carver9
Gladiator is stronger
Faster
More durable
And is carrying around MM weakness.

Don't see how they lose.

Your CBR fantasy version of Gladiator is not the comic version. MM 7/10

Sin I AM
Originally posted by carver9
MM needed help moving a moon...Gladiator moves around planetary bodies solo.
Gladiator has nano second combat speed showings, has blitzed at light speed and has also flown 100 times the speed of light.
Gladiator has swam through Gas Giants...Gladiator has withstood a blast capable of destroying a solar system.

MM doesn't have anything close to this. Sorry bro.


your the only person on this entire forum who thinks those feats make him an elite. kallark is not on j'onns level. he is everything that gladiator is AND more.

MM is an elite telepath on the scale of Xavier/Frost/etc
Elite shaphshifter
Can Go intangible/invisible plus he's a genius
Superman Level stats and has no weakness that Gladiator can exploit


MM wins

juggerman
Originally posted by Sin I AM
...and has no weakness that Gladiator can exploit


Well except for the whole shooting fire from his eyes thing...

Sin I AM
MM isnt physically affected by fire......and he can just go intangible

carver9
He is affected by fire and I would love for you to name these showings that doesn't make Gladiator an elite.

yaadaveyaa
Originally posted by juggerman
Well except for the whole shooting fire from his eyes thing... thumb up

Rao Kal El
Is defined as fire vulnerabilty and is not an insta win.

To this extent MM can create "certain radiation" with his martian vision. (though this is a silly idea tbh)

IMO Glads is physically superior, but Martian Man Jobber has a lot on his arsenal BUT his horrible jobber aura is a turn off for me. Oh wait Gladiator has one of those too.

I don't know, they job to each other. SPLIT

Konton
In a forum fight, Martian Manhunter would actually use his powers effectively. This means he can simply phase through Gladiator's... everything... and should he GET hit he can just use his martian malleability to soak more damage.

dmills
MM beats Glads into grape jelly.

carver9
Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Is defined as fire vulnerabilty and is not an insta win.

To this extent MM can create "certain radiation" with his martian vision. (though this is a silly idea tbh)

IMO Glads is physically superior, but Martian Man Jobber has a lot on his arsenal BUT his horrible jobber aura is a turn off for me. Oh wait Gladiator has one of those too.

I don't know, they job to each other. SPLIT

What jobbing fts does Gladiator have.?

juggerman
Originally posted by Konton
In a forum fight, Martian Manhunter would actually use his powers effectively. This means he can simply phase through Gladiator's... everything... and should he GET hit he can just use his martian malleability to soak more damage.

thumb up

JayDaDon
Both at their best, in character, it would be a close fight. A good one too.

-Pr-
Originally posted by carver9
Gladiator is stronger
Faster
More durable
And is carrying around MM weakness.

Don't see how they lose.

Stronger? It's a wash. Even if you wanted to say Gladiator was stronger, and you can, the gap isn't large enough to make any real difference.
J'onn is just as durable if not more-so. And he heals better.
Faster? Sure, but not a big enough gap either, especially combat wise. Or is Kallark just running away?
The fire thing isn't something you should rely on, tbh.

Originally posted by carver9
MM needed help moving a moon...Gladiator moves around planetary bodies solo.
Gladiator has nano second combat speed showings, has blitzed at light speed and has also flown 100 times the speed of light.
Gladiator has swam through Gas Giants...Gladiator has withstood a blast capable of destroying a solar system.

MM doesn't have anything close to this. Sorry bro.

Stop trolling/lowballing.

Rao Kal El
Originally posted by Konton
In a forum fight, Martian Manhunter would actually use his powers effectively. This means he can simply phase through Gladiator's... everything... and should he GET hit he can just use his martian malleability to soak more damage.

True, but also Gladiator is most likely to fing MMH's vulnerabilty from the beginning of the fight and keep pushing it, until he wins.

Imo this is a very close match.

Rao Kal El
Originally posted by carver9
What jobbing fts does Gladiator have.?

http://www.adampknave.com/words/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/cannonballNM.gif

-Pr-
I think J'onn is just as likely to use Gladiator's confidence issues against him, as Gladiator is to use his vision.

TheGodKiller
J'onn's feats are better and somewhat more abundant for the most part. His tendency to job is also greater imo. Both in a battle of jobbers, and an actual battle, J'onn wins the majority.

Edit: This thread sucks.

carver9
Originally posted by -Pr-
Stronger? It's a wash. Even if you wanted to say Gladiator was stronger, and you can, the gap isn't large enough to make any real difference.
J'onn is just as durable if not more-so. And he heals better.
Faster? Sure, but not a big enough gap either, especially combat wise. Or is Kallark just running away?
The fire thing isn't something you should rely on, tbh.



Stop trolling/lowballing.

How am I lowballing?

carver9
Originally posted by Rao Kal El
http://www.adampknave.com/words/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/cannonballNM.gif

You might need to reread that fight.

yaadaveyaa
Originally posted by -Pr-
Stronger? It's a wash. Even if you wanted to say Gladiator was stronger, and you can, the gap isn't large enough to make any real difference.
J'onn is just as durable if not more-so. And he heals better.
Faster? Sure, but not a big enough gap either, especially combat wise. Or is Kallark just running away?
The fire thing isn't something you should rely on, tbh.



Stop trolling/lowballing.

just a question how is it lowballing stating whose stronger in each case hes physically stronger hes much faster and a better combatant that uses MMH weakness coming from his eyes hows it low balling? i have the same opinion so im curious

Rao Kal El
Originally posted by -Pr-
I think J'onn is just as likely to use Gladiator's confidence issues against him, as Gladiator is to use his vision.


Yes, you are right, I forgot about that.

Lord Feron
Split but TP would tip the scales.

Rao Kal El
Originally posted by carver9
You might need to reread that fight.

Nothing to reread.

In a forum fight Glads should pop cannonball's head like a zit.

But in a comic book he jobs, confidence dwindles and losses.

-Pr-
Originally posted by carver9
How am I lowballing?

You're kidding, right?

Of course you are, because we've been through this before. I get that you want badly for Gladiator to win, but cherry picking feats to make J'onn look bad, not to mention posting false information, hurts your argument more than it helps it.

What, you don't think Gladiator can win unless you make J'onn look bad? Because that's what it seems like.

Originally posted by yaadaveyaa
just a question how is it lowballing stating whose stronger in each case hes physically stronger hes much faster and a better combatant that uses MMH weakness coming from his eyes hows it low balling? i have the same opinion so im curious

You can believe Gladiator is stronger if you like, that isn't why I told him to stop trolling and lowballing.

Chozone
Gladiator's life will end if he shows poor enough judgement to face the Martian

carver9
Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Nothing to reread.

In a forum fight Glads should pop cannonball's head like a zit.

But in a comic book he jobs, confidence dwindles and losses.

If you read the fight you would have known Gladiator toyed with him the ENTIRE fight. When he decided to get serious and punch him to the core of the sun, Cannonball gained a new ability and absorbed that punch and redirected it back at Gladiator. The sad thing about your argument is, that was the only decent lick he got off Gladiator and that didn't even scratch him, let along take him out if the fight (and again, that was Gladiator own power redirected back at him). Now again I ask, what showing makes Gladiator q jobber?

-Pr-
I remember when Carver used to talk about how well Cannonball did.

carver9
Originally posted by -Pr-
You're kidding, right?

Of course you are, because we've been through this before. I get that you want badly for Gladiator to win, but cherry picking feats to make J'onn look bad, not to mention posting false information, hurts your argument more than it helps it.

What, you don't think Gladiator can win unless you make J'onn look bad? Because that's what it seems like.



You can believe Gladiator is stronger if you like, that isn't why I told him to stop trolling and lowballing.

I never said MM was weak but what I did say is, Gladiator is leagues above him physically if we look at fts.

Raisen
Originally posted by Chozone
Gladiator's life will end if he shows poor enough judgement to face the Martian

^That is a little silly.
However.............I was thinking Glads would take a slight majority until PR brought up how MM can exploit Gladiator's weakness and in this circumstance Glads weakness is a lot more easily exploited than MM's weakness. Glads weakness can be magnified very quickly when you consider how powerful MM is as a telepath. You must also consider that the physical edge Gladiator has is not that significant, especially considering MM's TP

carver9
Originally posted by -Pr-
I remember when Carver used to talk about how well Cannonball did.


Then is reread the fight and seen the light. Cannonball is still a monster for enduring punches from an elite.

-Pr-
Originally posted by carver9
I never said MM was weak but what I did say is, Gladiator is leagues above him physically if we look at fts.

You mean, if you ignore J'onn's feats, because that's what you'd have to do to rationally believe Gladiator is leagues above him.

carver9
Originally posted by Raisen
^That is a little silly.
However.............I was thinking Glads would take a slight majority until PR brought up how MM can exploit Gladiator's weakness and in this circumstance Glads weakness is a lot more easily exploited than MM's weakness. Glads weakness can be magnified very quickly when you consider how powerful MM is as a telepath. You must also consider that the physical edge Gladiator has is not that significant, especially considering MM's TP

Gladiator has endured telepathic attacks and even overcame it recently. Gladiator has had confidence issues twice his entire career and telepathic attacks and people being near his level of power had nothing to do with it either.

-Pr-
Originally posted by carver9
Gladiator has endured telepathic attacks and even overcame it recently. Gladiator has had confidence issues twice his entire career and telepathic attacks and people being near his level of power had nothing to do with it either.

mmm

Originally posted by carver9
TP has prove to drop Gladiator...without it, Glads 8/10.

mmm

Rao Kal El
I hope you are not trying to imply that in a forum battle he will do the same.

Lets do this

Forum battle

Figth starts at 20 ft in character, cis is off

How many times does cannonball wins out of ten?

You tell me.

carver9
Originally posted by -Pr-
mmm



mmm


Mind raping him will do the job but messing with his confidence...no. I already gave MM the majority due to TP.

Raisen
Originally posted by carver9
Gladiator has endured telepathic attacks and even overcame it recently. Gladiator has had confidence issues twice his entire career and telepathic attacks and people being near his level of power had nothing to do with it either.

Their level of power is VERY close although I would still give the brawn and combat speed to Gladiator. MM, on top of this, is an UBER TOP-TIER TELEPATH and can go INTANGIBLE. The fire beams would not quickly subdue MM and MM always has the option to go intangible. Whilst MM can affect Gladiator with TP that, to my knowledge, Glads has not had to deal with yet. If Glads can be f'ed with telepathically, then MM can and will do it. It's also very within his character to do so.

CASE CLOSED

carver9
Originally posted by Rao Kal El
I hope you are not trying to imply that in a forum battle he will do the same.

Lets do this

Forum battle

Figth starts at 20 ft in character, cis is off

How many times does cannonball wins out of ten?

You tell me.

Reread my statement. I said "Cannonball was not a threat". The only reason Canonball was able to even budge Gladiator during the end of that fight was..."he gained a new power out of no where" the ability to absorb kinetic energy and redirect it "and even then, it didn't damage Gladiator". What's so hard to understand? Dang.

-Pr-
Originally posted by carver9
Mind raping him will do the job but messing with his confidence...no. I already gave MM the majority due to TP.

How are they different, exactly?

Sin I AM
Originally posted by carver9
He is affected by fire and I would love for you to name these showings that doesn't make Gladiator an elite.


his fire vulnerbility is a mental thing not physical.....he stated long ago fire does not harm him. and if u wanna go the weakness exploitation route j'onn can do the same thing nova did to the strontian on one shot his ass. i'd give you the strength edge, and id even give you the speed edge....but neither is markedly enough to be the deciding factor in this fight. in a forum fight martian manhunter just has more to draw on and gladiator doesnt have the superman-esque feats to allow him to take a majority against him.

as for the second question, what elite high herald has gladiator has outright beat or shown superiority...and no at the time Vulcan was NOT a high herald.

Rao Kal El
Originally posted by carver9
Reread my statement. I said "Cannonball was not a threat". The only reason Canonball was able to even budge Gladiator during the end of that fight was..."he gained a new power out of no where" the ability to absorb kinetic energy and redirect it "and even then, it didn't damage Gladiator". What's so hard to understand? Dang.

In other words, Gladiator was jobbing. Unless you think in reality cannonball had a shot to win.

carver9
Originally posted by -Pr-
How are they different, exactly?

Because it was shown on panel that Gladiator trained his entire life on how to balance his confidence.

Raisen
Someone please make this stop.

carver9
Originally posted by Rao Kal El
In other words, Gladiator was jobbing. Unless you think in reality cannonball had a shot to win.

During that fight in the book, when did Cannonball have a shot at winning? Again, him redirecting Gladiator power at him isn't him having a shot at winning. Him being able to budge Gladiator with Gladiator own power isn't him having a shot at winning. That's like me saying "Batman had a shot at beating an amped Superman since he was able to flip him off a cliff (use his own leverage against him) during mid blitz". Does that even make sense to you?

Rao Kal El
Anyhow weather this both characters have or not a jobber aura around them the main issue is who will win.

I do also believe that Glads is faster and stronger, but MMH makes up for that disadvantage with his versatility, but the main factor is the tp.

I think MMH has better chances to win considering all this factors, though i def can see Glads pulling some upsets vs the martian.

carver9
@Sin...

Didn't MM die before the reboot when he was inside the sun IIRC? I don't think you know what you are talking about.

Also, what elite Herald did Gladiator fight? He fought Masterson and was destroying him until Masterson backstabbed him with living lightning. He defeated a Phoenix Avatar. The Thor fight isn't canon to Gladiator. While weakened, he withstood an assault from Tyrant while the rest was two to 3 shotted. He never had the opportunity to fight any high Heralds.

carver9
Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Anyhow weather this both characters have or not a jobber around them the main issue is who will win.

I do also believe that Glads is faster and stronger, but MMH makes up for that disadvantage with his versatility, but the main factor is the tp.

I think MMH has better chances to win considering all this factors, though i def can see Glads pulling some upsets vs the martian.

I agree unless Gladiator decides to blitz during the beginning of the fight and yes, that is in character for him.

-Pr-
Originally posted by carver9
Because it was shown on panel that Gladiator trained his entire life on how to balance his confidence.

and yet it's still a stated vulnerability of his. a mindrape's best chance of success is if involves his confidence.

Originally posted by carver9
@Sin...

Didn't MM die before the reboot when he was inside the sun IIRC? I don't think you know what you are talking about.

Also, what elite Herald did Gladiator fight? He fought Masterson and was destroying him until Masterson backstabbed him with living lightning. He defeated a Phoenix Avatar. The Thor fight isn't canon to Gladiator. While weakened, he withstood an assault from Tyrant while the rest was two to 3 shotted. He never had the opportunity to fight any high Heralds.

when did jonn die inside the sun, exactly?

Originally posted by carver9
I agree unless Gladiator decides to blitz during the beginning of the fight and yes, that is in character for him.

kallark isn't fast enough to blitz jonn.

pym-ftw
I feel bad for carver he could have won his original argument here if he stuck to it...

Stoic
This one could go either way, because both have the power to exploit the others weakness.

In a brawl, I'd go with Gladiator being the more dominant of the two.

J'onn's TP assaults could bring this to an abrupt ending however.

Gladiator's heat, or laser vision, could turn this into a stomp on his side.

I say split.

Sin I AM
Originally posted by carver9
@Sin...

Didn't MM die before the reboot when he was inside the sun IIRC? I don't think you know what you are talking about.

Also, what elite Herald did Gladiator fight? He fought Masterson and was destroying him until Masterson backstabbed him with living lightning. He defeated a Phoenix Avatar. The Thor fight isn't canon to Gladiator. While weakened, he withstood an assault from Tyrant while the rest was two to 3 shotted. He never had the opportunity to fight any high Heralds.

i have no clue what your talking about.....iirc that never happened he "died" a different way

masterson is a scrub......next
if your talking about about rachel grey thats a wash
thor is non-canon so DONT EVEN BRING IT UP
and lol at tyrant... reread that "fight"



Originally posted by Stoic
This one could go either way, because both have the power to exploit the others weakness.

In a brawl, I'd go with Gladiator being the more dominant of the two.

J'onn's TP assaults could bring this to an abrupt ending however.

Gladiator's heat, or laser vision, could turn this into a stomp on his side.

I say split.


stop mentioning a brawl...this isnt a brawl
true
no....invisi/intangi or counter with martian vision or all three at once
and no

ColossusGrundy
MM wins

Glads can do NOTHING to counter intangibility. and that's just the beginning.

Stoic
Originally posted by Sin I AM
i have no clue what your talking about.....iirc that never happened he "died" a different way

masterson is a scrub......next
if your talking about about rachel grey thats a wash
thor is non-canon so DONT EVEN BRING IT UP
and lol at tyrant... reread that "fight"






stop mentioning a brawl...this isnt a brawl
true
no....invisi/intangi or counter with martian vision or all three at once
and no


Gladiator is much faster than J'onn thhough. Also it could very easily become a brawl, after all both of them have used their fist. You want J'onn to win, that much is obvious, but Gladiator is no pushover.

carver9
CIS is on. 90% chance Jon is punching it out.

-Pr-
You've never actually read Martian Manhunter, have you.

h1a8
Originally posted by carver9
CIS is on. 90% chance Jon is punching it out.

This is a forum fight. I say Jonn is punching it out less than 30% of the time.

But at least you are implying that if Jonn actually used his powers intelligently (as shown before) then he will beat Kallark.

Intangibility and TP are hard to counter for Kallark.

carver9
Originally posted by h1a8
This is a forum fight. I say Jonn is punching it out less than 30% of the time.

But at least you are implying that if Jonn actually used his powers intelligently (as shown before) then he will beat Kallark.

Intangibility and TP are hard to counter for Kallark.

Debating like this, no one short of Odin is beating Surfer.

celeyhyga17
J'onn through TP.

abhilegend
Originally posted by carver9
MM needed help moving a moon...Gladiator moves around planetary bodies solo.
Gladiator has nano second combat speed showings, has blitzed at light speed and has also flown 100 times the speed of light.
Gladiator has swam through Gas Giants...Gladiator has withstood a blast capable of destroying a solar system.

MM doesn't have anything close to this. Sorry bro.
Don't act like you actually know about anything.

J'onn helped moving Earth, not moon. Gladiator needed Quasar and ronan to help him move an unknown planet off-panel. Neither makes one stronger, these types of feats are meaningless.

Gladiator was being matched by Hyperion in speed who even speed demon and quicksilver have blitzed. That's not a good feat for him. He's also never blitzed at lightspeed J'onn has blitzed martians all across the world and has gone punch for punch against a blitzing barry allen.

Which pushed his endurance to his limits. Gladiator tanking a nova which was going to destroy half a solar system is all good and dandy but this is also meaningless in determining who's more durable because its an outlier. On average gladiator has gone down to far less.

This is nothing but you stroking that purple mohawk again.

carver9
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
J'onn through TP.


I agree.

Sin I AM
has glads every mimicked supermans phasing trick?

carver9
Originally posted by Sin I AM
has glads every mimicked supermans phasing trick?

Nope, he has blitzed around at invisible speeds though.


http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l92/priest_85/WOK03-021.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l92/priest_85/WOK03-022.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l92/priest_85/WOK03-023.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l92/priest_85/WOK03-024.jpg

abhilegend
Carver would counter intangibility with invisibility.

-Pr-
Originally posted by carver9
Nope, he has blitzed around at invisible speeds though.


http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l92/priest_85/WOK03-021.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l92/priest_85/WOK03-022.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l92/priest_85/WOK03-023.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l92/priest_85/WOK03-024.jpg

A blur isn't invisible.

JakeTheBank
J'onn.

I mean, Glads might make things interesting if J'onn were limited to just Martian Vision and super strength/durability/speed. But with J'onn's whole powerset, I think he'd win pretty much every time (albeit with some moderate difficulty).

Sin I AM
Originally posted by carver9
Nope, he has blitzed around at invisible speeds though.


http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l92/priest_85/WOK03-021.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l92/priest_85/WOK03-022.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l92/priest_85/WOK03-023.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l92/priest_85/WOK03-024.jpg

i wold call that a bullrush not a blitz carver

carver9
Originally posted by -Pr-
A blur isn't invisible.

In one of the panels, he was pretty much gone...not in site while attacking.

carver9
Originally posted by Sin I AM
i wold call that a bullrush not a blitz carver


That's far from a bull rush. He is punching people from different angles while blitzing.

-Pr-
Originally posted by carver9
In one of the panels, he was pretty much gone...not in site while attacking.

A visible blur isn't invisible, and that's all we see him do as he attacks.

It's fast, you just need to stop misrepresenting.

eaebiakuya
I would say a bullrush is more like this:

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/7626/nova1.jpg

-Pr-
Yep.

Sin I AM
Originally posted by carver9
That's far from a bull rush. He is punching people from different angles while blitzing.


no he was not

Golgo13
Dont forget jonn can shapeshift into something more powerful as when he no sold apollos attacks.

Stoic
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
J'onn.

I mean, Glads might make things interesting if J'onn were limited to just Martian Vision and super strength/durability/speed. But with J'onn's whole powerset, I think he'd win pretty much every time (albeit with some moderate difficulty).


I know that you can't possibly believe that. J'onn only has one power that could possibly defeat Gladiator for the majority, and that's his TP. He's not stronger, faster, or more durable. What happens if Gladiator were able to resist a TP assault? If what you say is true, and J'onn could defeat Gladiator with a moderate amount of effort, how well would he do against Thor, or others in this tier who have had fits against Gladiator in the past?

You can't tall me that Thor walk all over him.

Golgo13
How is glada going to combat intangibility or shapeahifting?

Stoic
Originally posted by Golgo13
How is glada going to combat intangibility or shapeahifting?

The shape shifting isn't really the problem. The intangibility, and the TP could be, but how did Superman deal with it? He has to become solid at some point right? I'm not arguing that Gladiator would win, but as far as J'onn using him as a footstool, well that's not going to happen. Glads has a chance of winning.

Golgo13
It definetely can be as he can increase his size and strength.

CosmicComet
Originally posted by Golgo13
How is glada going to combat intangibility or shapeahifting?

Gladiator is much faster.

That's how.

Golgo13
Mm has recently fought off the jla by himself, including the flash. Kintd is hinting of a superman/ mm showdown soon and superman is much fastrr than glads.

carver9
Originally posted by Golgo13
Mm has recently fought off the jla by himself, including the flash. Kintd is hinting of a superman/ mm showdown soon and superman is much fastrr than glads.

Current Superman isn't faster than Gladiator (let alone pre reboot).

Golgo13
Originally posted by carver9
Current Superman isn't faster than Gladiator (let alone pre reboot).

Youre right, carv. Hes a lot faster than them.

-Pr-
Originally posted by carver9
Current Superman isn't faster than Gladiator (let alone pre reboot).

lol. Yes, he is. I'm sure you hate it too.

carver9
Originally posted by Golgo13
Youre right, carv. Hes a lot faster than them.

Based off what showing?

CosmicComet
Simply fighting someone in a comic doesn't make your speed on par with their own. It takes more than that, like at least explicit, non-vague statements of speed in the context.

There are multiple street levelers that have hit Gladiator, and they cannot think, act, or move at even 1% as fast as he does. Its comics. Your own feats determine how good you are for the most part. Its less important (though still arguably important for specific contexts) how you do in fights that are dictated mostly by what the writer wants to show, and not how a computer simulation would actually match the feats up.

J'onn aint as fast as Gladiator.

Golgo13
Originally posted by carver9
Based off what showing?

The red hood and the outlaws showing was pretty uber. Or the one with supergirl in his apartment.

Horrificus
Originally posted by Rao Kal El
http://www.adampknave.com/words/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/cannonballNM.gif Hehe. No getting around that one.

Horrificus
MM for this one.

abhilegend
Gladiator isn't faster than J'onn in combat

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
As for combat speed from MM...well, he can go blow for blow with Barry Allen. Yes, Flash is crazy - but so is MM.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/10/103208/2648425-2.png
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/10/103208/2648426-3.png
Yes, that's post-crisis.

carver9
Originally posted by Golgo13
The red hood and the outlaws showing was pretty uber. Or the one with supergirl in his apartment.

confused Not enough.

http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/3697/hyperspeed9yu.jpg

Even though this ship was old and damaged, it had enough power and speed to traverse from the Shiar empire to Pluto during mid sentence and Gladiator kept up with them, easily. Shiar is located on the other side of the Galaxy and Glads crossed it in seconds.

abhilegend
Byrne superman traveled 1 billion lightyears in the time hawkman and hawkwoman made a sentence via hyperspace.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Stoic
I know that you can't possibly believe that. J'onn only has one power that could possibly defeat Gladiator for the majority, and that's his TP. He's not stronger, faster, or more durable. What happens if Gladiator were able to resist a TP assault? If what you say is true, and J'onn could defeat Gladiator with a moderate amount of effort, how well would he do against Thor, or others in this tier who have had fits against Gladiator in the past?

You can't tall me that Thor walk all over him.

Hmmm?

His physical attributes are certainly comparable to Gladiator. Factoring in Martian Vision, massive TP, shape shifting, intangibility, invisibility, etc, the way his power set works simply trumps Gladiator's. I doubt Gladiator could resist J'onn's TP, tbh.

Thor, overall, has superior feats and showings than Gladiator. Sure he's struggled with him, but when he's stopped holding back (both as Eric Masterson and again against a prepped future Gladiator) he was able to hastily end him in a handful of blows.

As far as Thor vs. J'onn goes, it really depends on how well Thor's TP defense is on that day. Barring that, J'onn would give him a fight, but if Thor stopped hold back or cut loose, he'd out perform him, imo.

-Pr-
Guys, no more Superman in the conversation.

And Carver, if you're going to post scans, at least try to post ones that actually reflect what you're talking about.

abhilegend
Also J'onn reached Oa following SBP just a bit later than supermen and GLs if someone is looking for flying speed. No hyperspace needed.

carver9
Masterson did nothing to Gladiator but sneak attack him.

Golgo13
Originally posted by abhilegend
Also J'onn reached Oa following SBP just a bit later than supermen and GLs if someone is looking for flying speed. No hyperspace needed.

thumb up

JakeTheBank
Carver, shut up about this.

Gladiator was being a 'tard and standing there basking in his "victory". He watched Eric lift his hammer and pull down Living Lightning. There was nothing "sneaky" about what Masterson did at all. Gladiator was just an idiot.

I personally don't feel like rehashing this, so I'd suggest you get a mod ruling or their input one way or the other so it can be put to rest.

carver9
Originally posted by abhilegend
Gladiator isn't faster than J'onn in combat


Yes, that's post-crisis.

His blitzes are faster and this showing is more concrete. The scan you presented doesn't tell us how fast they are going.

http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/7296/hyperspeed11mv.jpg

abhilegend
Originally posted by carver9
His blitzes are faster and this showing is more concrete. The scan you presented doesn't tell us how fast they are going.

http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/7296/hyperspeed11mv.jpg
That's non-canon and you have been corrected on it many times.

753
manhunter wins this. carver, gladiator just isn't that powerful, let it go.

armedforbattle
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdpn6iMoyt1ql0vy3.gif

Rao Kal El
pile

leonidas
i think glads could very well be faster, but i don't think the difference is enough to make a real difference. glads could possibly be stronger, but likewise not much stronger. he could even be more durable, but see above. to counter those small differences jonn has a widely varied powerset and awesome tp. even if glads CAN resist a full-on mindrape, jonn should at least be able to stun him enough to allow him to finish glads off for a majority imo.

deathlife
MM for a majority.

His strength and an incredibly diverse power set tips the scales in his favor.

Mshinu
Yep I see TP tipping it is favor of MM too, but it is still fairly close.
MM is an even worse jobber than Glads however.

Rao Kal El
Originally posted by Horrificus
Hehe. No getting around that one.

big grin

curryman
Why are people talking about TP?

I feel like that's the one way J'onn wouldn't win!

Sin I AM
Originally posted by curryman
Why are people talking about TP?

I feel like that's the one way J'onn wouldn't win!


then u dont know the chaacters

Mindship
My general impression is G is physically mightier, but not enough to compensate for MM's versatility. If MM doesn't go punch for punch, I believe he should win.

Raisen
Originally posted by Mindship
My general impression is G is physically mightier, but not enough to compensate for MM's versatility. If MM doesn't go punch for punch, I believe he should win.

Yeah, and the physical edge is more than nullified considering MM's other powers and ability to easily exploit Glad's weakness.

ODG
Originally posted by Raisen
Yeah, and the physical edge is more than nullified considering MM's other powers and ability to easily exploit Glad's weakness. How exactly would J'onn replicate the exploitative measures utilized by Reed, Cannonball or even Nova Prime?

Sin I AM
Originally posted by ODG
How exactly would J'onn replicate the exploitative measures utilized by Reed, Cannonball or even Nova Prime?

psionics

-Pr-
I don't think he'd replicate what they did, as much as he would exploit Gladiator's vulnerability to telepathy in a similar way to Cassandra Nova.

That said, I don't think he really needs to use telepathy, to be honest. Any strength, speed or durability gap isn't going to make a huge difference, and with J'onn's intangibility and invisibility, coupled with his shape-shifting, I think that's enough on it's own to get him an (albeit hard-fought) win.

Sin I AM
Originally posted by -Pr-
I don't think he'd replicate what they did, as much as he would exploit Gladiator's vulnerability to telepathy in a similar way to Cassandra Nova.

That said, I don't think he really needs to use telepathy, to be honest. Any strength, speed or durability gap isn't going to make a huge difference, and with J'onn's intangibility and invisibility, coupled with his shape-shifting, I think that's enough on it's own to get him an (albeit hard-fought) win.

telepathy is the game ender though.....i dont even see why j'onn would even go the distance with kallrak when he can be so easily dropped

-Pr-
Originally posted by Sin I AM
telepathy is the game ender though.....i dont even see why j'onn would even go the distance with kallrak when he can be so easily dropped

I don't consider it an auto-win, but yeah, it should be pretty effective.

Sin I AM
Originally posted by -Pr-
I don't consider it an auto-win, but yeah, it should be pretty effective. Originally posted by -Pr-
I don't consider it an auto-win, but yeah, it should be pretty effective.


i dont see how....glads powers are psionically based. j'onn (when he's not bullshitting) is a master level telepath. gladiator has shown zero resistance to tp, and the one instance that comes to mind is when rachel cast an illusion but that was cis when she could of just shut him down

-Pr-
Originally posted by Sin I AM
i dont see how....glads powers are psionically based. j'onn (when he's not bullshitting) is a master level telepath. gladiator has shown zero resistance to tp, and the one instance that comes to mind is when rachel cast an illusion but that was cis when she could of just shut him down

I was agreeing that telepathy would be a potent weapon...

Sin I AM
Originally posted by -Pr-
I was agreeing that telepathy would be a potent weapon...

yea but not an auto-win...i just got that

-Pr-
I think J'onn's best option is to attack psychically and physically. He's a capable multi-tasker, and can attack Gladiator on two fronts at the same time.

Stoic
What about Kal's heat vision? That could cause the match to change in an instant.

-Pr-
Originally posted by Stoic
What about Kal's heat vision? That could cause the match to change in an instant.

Not sure about that, tbh, especially with the inconsistency when it comes to J'onns weakness.

leonidas
Originally posted by -Pr-
Not sure about that, tbh, especially with the inconsistency when it comes to J'onns weakness.

yeah, and i think it would only be a real issue if the vision was used to ignite something. it's fire that is the issue, not just heat-related attacks. he's phased through lasers a million times, i don't see why he wouldn't simply be able to allow the beams to pass right through him.

i don't see this being an overwhelming majority for mm though. maybe 6-6.5/10 imo.

-Pr-
Originally posted by leonidas
yeah, and i think it would only be a real issue if the vision was used to ignite something. it's fire that is the issue, not just heat-related attacks. he's phased through lasers a million times, i don't see why he wouldn't simply be able to allow the beams to pass right through him.

iirc he's phased through heat vision before too.

ODG
Originally posted by Sin I AM
psionics Originally posted by -Pr-
I don't think he'd replicate what they did, as much as he would exploit Gladiator's vulnerability to telepathy in a similar way to Cassandra Nova. I wasn't aware that Cassandra Nova took advantage of his confidence-related abilities. I was under the impression that Cassandra Nova just straight up mind-raped him, along with the rest of the Imperial Guard and the X-Men.

carver9
Originally posted by -Pr-
iirc he's phased through heat vision before too.


Yeah, he phased through Superboy Prime heat vision.

Betsy601
Manjobber wins.http://xin70.info/17.jpghttp://xin70.info/18.jpghttp://xin70.info/19.jpghttp://xin70.info/20.jpg

753
Originally posted by ODG
I wasn't aware that Cassandra Nova took advantage of his confidence-related abilities. I was under the impression that Cassandra Nova just straight up mind-raped him, along with the rest of the Imperial Guard and the X-Men. I recall her showing the destruction she caused to the shiar empire, crushing his confidence. dont recall if she was already midnraping him by then

753
Originally posted by -Pr-
iirc he's phased through heat vision before too. hes also unphased right into it like a moron

ODG
Originally posted by 753
I recall her showing the destruction she caused to the shiar empire, crushing his confidence. dont recall if she was already midnraping him by then Re-read it. She also had discovered the nature of his confidence-based abilities by mind-raping the Imperial Guard. Needless to say, I don't see how J'onn would have similar access to this information. And that's setting aside other issues like J'onn's telepathy not meeting Cassandra's levels, etc.

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by ODG
And that's setting aside other issues like J'onn's telepathy not meeting Cassandra's levels, etc.
I don't know about that. J'onn has some pretty stocked tp feats that easily put him at Xavier level at the very least, when he's not in his jobber mode. From what I have seen of the both of them, they're peers imo.

ODG
^ Who's talking about Xavier? We're talking about Cassandra Nova. The Cass who mindraped Xavier while he was exponentially amped by Cerebro. Whether or not I think Xavier's above J'onn is pretty irrelevant.

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by ODG
^ Who's talking about Xavier? We're talking about Cassandra Nova. The Cass who mindraped Xavier while he was exponentially amped by Cerebro. Whether or not I think Xavier's above J'onn is pretty irrelevant.
I was saying that they(Cass and MM) are peers. And I was using Xavier as a measuring stick.

ODG
^ You think J'onn is so far above Xavier, that he'd mindrape him while Charles was amplified to the 10th power by Cerebro? Are you kidding me? You can barely make an argument that he's Xavier's equal, much less one that he's exponentially more powerful.

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