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Instead of Doomsday being in DC, he is now in Marvel. Let's fast forward this to the end, where the ending battle take place between the hero and the villain. Who from Marvel would be your Superman? Who would you use from Marvel EARTH to be the last standing person to face Doomsday.? No trans tiers or higher allowed. Remember, the person you choose would have to either die along with Doomsday or win the battle.

Would this be around the same time that DoS was published (ie the 90s) or would this be in current Marvel?

Current Marvel.

Thor or Hulk. Neither of them would die, probably, assuming Doomsday is at DoS levels.

^not sure about that. imo, hulk would die. thor is different. he could simply use bfr. if he tried going h2h ala superman, then yeah, i'd say he'd die too.

Well, considering the stuff both survived, I don't think either of them would die. Hulk especially has had his healing factor displayed more prominently over the past few years, too.

Maybe back in the 90s, I could agree, but both have gotten pretty significant feats since then. They'll feel it, either way, though.

Thor.

^^imo, i think dd could have continued to change though. he sort of maxxed out with clark in that arc. were dos fighting hulk, i think he would continue to get stronger until they both killed each other. thor--physically--really hasn't changed. in this type of scenario, i just think he would go all physical and THAT would be the problem for him. i guess it depends too, on what you feel dd was intended to be. and even THAT version of superman had some pretty uber feats that people forget about. phil listed them once i think. some were pretty uber, though i'm having trouble remembering specific ones. getting old blow ballzzz....

Yeah, even 90s Superman was pretty formidable and has some high end feats to compete with pre-reboot. Still, idk. Given how Hulk and Thor are currently portrayed by the latest couple of volumes of their respecting ongoings - not counting crossovers, team books, events, etc - I think either one of them could definitely beat Doomsday without dying. If Thor was disarmed, he'd be in worse shape, but even if he does melee mostly with Mjolnir with the occasional hammer toss and lightning blast, he has what it takes to win.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Yeah, even 90s Superman was pretty formidable and has some high end feats to compete with pre-reboot. Still, idk. Given how Hulk and Thor are currently portrayed by the latest couple of volumes of their respecting ongoings - not counting crossovers, team books, events, etc - I think either one of them could definitely beat Doomsday without dying. If Thor was disarmed, he'd be in worse shape, but even if he does melee mostly with Mjolnir with the occasional hammer toss and lightning blast, he has what it takes to win. Taking a high end Thor then probably so. Taking an average Thor then he would most likely die too. Also the biggest problem with DD was his insane resistance against energy projection and his speed. Thor will have more of a problem with DD's speed than Superman did. And Superman had big problems with it.

If Doomsday is created with the same intention of showing an heroic death. Any herald will die.

Now based on power levels portrayed on that decade and comparing them with each other. IMO

Silver Surfer of that era will survive
Thor of that era could survive
Hulk of that era dies.

professor hulk would lose
savage would eventually win imo
current... who the phuck knows
pak hulk/green scar HAHAHAHAHA!

Thor has the power set to put DOS DD down, vastly more versatile than Superman and just as strong, Thor does have and edge he can go warrior madness or belt of strength and would be willingly to kill a lot quicker than Superman.

Originally posted by the Darkone
Thor has the power set to put DOS DD down, vastly more versatile than Superman and just as strong, Thor does have and edge he can go warrior madness or belt of strength and would be willingly to kill a lot quicker than Superman.

1. Thor is not as strong as Superman, never has been either.
2. Thor will never go into warrior madness in a forum fight unless specified by OP. Thor has never entered warrior madness even in a comic.
3. Belt of strength isn't standard equipment.
4. Thor is a lot slower than Superman and DD and also his primary mentality is to brawl. Thus his versatility edge is diminished.


Thor's biggest problem is his mentality and his lack of speed against beings who turn on the speed. Superman even had problems with DD's speed.

CIS/CIP rules say different.

Originally posted by leonidas
^not sure about that. imo, hulk would die. thor is different. he could simply use bfr. if he tried going h2h ala superman, then yeah, i'd say he'd die too. Can Hulk even die?

Maybe if DD koed him and kept beating on him, but I can't see him getting killed on his feet by a being of DD's level

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Can Hulk even die?

Maybe if DD koed him and kept beating on him, but I can't see him getting killed on his feet by a being of DD's level This.

Savage Hulk can be beaten, maybe even be killed... but not by someone on Doomsday's level.

At this point, Doomsday has just not aged well as a concept and had literally succumbed to reverse ninja rule in his penultimate tale Reign of the Doomsdays. I don't even think Wonder Man would be defeated by him at this point (although that also has to do with Wonder Man's stock raising from second-rate Thor schmoe).

Thor would win probably win ( at least Thor in his ongoing) though he would be forced to bust out the huge top level attacks and be pushed to the brink. Savage hulk could win a battle of attrition or perhaps get koed but His Hf is way too good for him to be outright killed in such a physical confrontation. Grey hulk and Prof hulk would lose. Greenscar would straight up annihilate him.

Originally posted by ODG
This.

Savage Hulk can be beaten, maybe even be killed... but not by someone on Doomsday's level.

At this point, Doomsday has just not aged well as a concept and had literally succumbed to reverse ninja rule in his penultimate tale Reign of the Doomsdays. I don't even think Wonder Man would be defeated by him at this point (although that also has to do with Wonder Man's stock raising from second-rate Thor schmoe). I didn't finish the Reign of Doomsdays (stopped as soon as Doomslayer appeared), but I know for a fact WM would choke him out

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Can Hulk even die?

Maybe if DD koed him and kept beating on him, but I can't see him getting killed on his feet by a being of DD's level

yeah, i wondered if hulk could die too. but to odg's point--it's why i've said many times that it's hard to compare eras sometimes. do we view him as the character he was intended to be portrayed as, or do we look strictly at what he did then (and retroactively it was shown he had some UBER feats in h/p, so should all those feats be ascribed to dos as well?)

i think even dos dd would kill thor if thor fought like supes does. hulk, given some of his more recent feats, is a lot more difficult to say that about. could be though that dd would simply adapt a way to kill him, though it might kill him in the doing.

Originally posted by h1a8
1. Thor is not as strong as Superman, never has been either.
2. Thor will never go into warrior madness in a forum fight unless specified by OP. Thor has never entered warrior madness even in a comic.
3. Belt of strength isn't standard equipment.
4. Thor is a lot slower than Superman and DD and also his primary mentality is to brawl. Thus his versatility edge is diminished.


Thor's biggest problem is his mentality and his lack of speed against beings who turn on the speed. Superman even had problems with DD's speed.

Oh STFU, I dont care what you think troll, pretty much no else does either!

Originally posted by leonidas
yeah, i wondered if hulk could die too. but to odg's point--it's why i've said many times that it's hard to compare eras sometimes. do we view him as the character he was intended to be portrayed as, or do we look strictly at what he did then (and retroactively it was shown he had some UBER feats in h/p, so should all those feats be ascribed to dos as well?)

i think even dos dd would kill thor if thor fought like supes does. hulk, given some of his more recent feats, is a lot more difficult to say that about. could be though that dd would simply adapt a way to kill him, though it might kill him in the doing. IIRC DOS DD was weakened for like a couple thousand years before then due to his imprisonment

HP fought a more powerful Superman and completely handled him

If Thor actually tried I could see him crashing DD's head in

Fraction's Thor would probably call him obscenities before killing him.

Originally posted by leonidas
yeah, i wondered if hulk could die too. but to odg's point--it's why i've said many times that it's hard to compare eras sometimes. do we view him as the character he was intended to be portrayed as, or do we look strictly at what he did then (and retroactively it was shown he had some UBER feats in h/p, so should all those feats be ascribed to dos as well?)

i think even dos dd would kill thor if thor fought like supes does. hulk, given some of his more recent feats, is a lot more difficult to say that about. could be though that dd would simply adapt a way to kill him, though it might kill him in the doing. Doomsday basically went the way of Abomination. The basic concept underlying him just continually eroded over the years (with one or two exceptions) until it pretty much hit bottom. That's really all there is to it.

Meanwhile, Thor fought off WWH amped with a Mjolnir knockoff while double-teamed by another entity that had curbstomped Rulk almost effortlessly (Angrir). All while fighting like Superman. The method of battle here doesn't seem all that relevant in the face of that.

And Thor was weakened in This fight.

Sentry. Sentry might get killed in the first battle, but I wonder what DD would do when Bob popped right back in again. Eventually if Sentry couldnt kill him, i'm sure he would go Voidtry and that would be the end of that for old DD.

Lulz @lowballing in this thread. Any being in Thor class strength would die. For those who think that DOS Doomsday was so weak, the fight was again referenced in Day of Doom and DCU: Legacies where it happened just a few years back in comic time (sliding time rule) and strangely, he still killed superman. As for byrne superman, he was still stronger than Thor. Easily if we go by feats.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Lulz @lowballing in this thread. Any being in Thor class strength would die. For those who think that DOS Doomsday was so weak, the fight was again referenced in Day of Doom and DCU: Legacies where it happened just a few years back in comic time (sliding time rule) and strangely, he still killed superman. As for byrne superman, he was still stronger than Thor. Easily if we go by feats.

Who is lowballing in this thead and how so?

If anything, people, including myself, are using the feats of Thor and Hulk to suggest that they'd win and survive, not lowballing Doomsday.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Fraction's Thor would probably call him obscenities before killing him.




"Spiked, bastard, &*%, $&*#, @#$!"

-Knocks him into space.-

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Who is lowballing in this thead and how so?

If anything, people, including myself, are using the feats of Thor and Hulk to suggest that they'd win and survive, not lowballing Doomsday.
Who's lowballing? The whole thread is full of it. Well, the thing is byrne superman has better strength feats than thor or savage or merged hulk. Heck, the earth pull with Hal against starbreaker is from byrne era. I don't know how they would survive when he couldn't.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Who's lowballing? The whole thread is full of it. Well, the thing is byrne superman has better strength feats than thor or savage or merged hulk. Heck, the earth pull with Hal against starbreaker is from byrne era. I don't know how they would survive when he couldn't.

barker

Who exactly is lowballing him, though?

Looking back at Thor and Hulk's respective feats and what they've endured within the past handful of years alone suggests they could survive Doomsday, even if neither of them are as strong as he is (and pure strength alone isn't going to dictate this match either, not considering Thor's power output and Hulk's ability to amp and heal).

As if you had to ask who's lowballing Jake

Nova prime.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Who's lowballing? The whole thread is full of it. Well, the thing is byrne superman has better strength feats than thor or savage or merged hulk. Heck, the earth pull with Hal against starbreaker is from byrne era. I don't know how they would survive when he couldn't.


Just like that scan you like to use of you claiming Superman is pushing a planet size ship and a moon but in the same scene Superman states he can't move a planet.

this guy.

Beta Ray Bill I think could give DoS Doomsday one hell of a physical fight and win If not recreate the duel death scene Doomy had with Superman (for dramatic effect )

Sentry I can see swooping in to save the avengers and getting beat up in a straight physical encounter until getting serious and cutting loose on DD and using more exotic powers of blasts(like VS WWH) and if that fails then like someone above said Void would handle business.

Current Hyperion and Blue Marvel I also think can take him.
Juggernaut could take him physically.

I'd be interested in seeing DoS doomsday VS classic count Nefaria

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
barker

Who exactly is lowballing him, though?

Looking back at Thor and Hulk's respective feats and what they've endured within the past handful of years alone suggests they could survive Doomsday, even if neither of them are as strong as he is (and pure strength alone isn't going to dictate this match either, not considering Thor's power output and Hulk's ability to amp and heal).
Thor's power output isn't greater than Superman, Martian Manhunter, Guy Gardner, Fire, Ice and Booster Gold's combined power output which Doomsday completely no sold. Not even close to it. Pak hulk, sure. Thor of previous few years would be oneshotted like Bloodwynd and Maxima. Superman was hurting his hands punching doomsday. Thor isn't winning againrt doomsday. At least not in character.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
As if you had to ask who's lowballing Jake
Surfer would get his shit pushed in btw.

Originally posted by carver9
Just like that scan you like to use of you claiming Superman is pushing a planet size ship and a moon but in the same scene Superman states he can't move a planet.

this guy.
Don't talk about things you don't know. I've destroyed your BS about this many times.

Originally posted by carver9
Just like that scan you like to use of you claiming Superman is pushing a planet size ship and a moon but in the same scene Superman states he can't move a planet.

this guy.

He's probably talking about this one. Crazy feat.

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg587/golgi7777/SU_zpsd47b3a01.jpg

Originally posted by abhilegend
Don't talk about things you don't know. I've destroyed your BS about this many times.

Hard to argue against something that was stated on panel, bro.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Thor's power output isn't greater than Superman, Martian Manhunter, Guy Gardner, Fire, Ice and Booster Gold's combined power output which Doomsday completely no sold. Not even close to it. Pak hulk, sure. Thor of previous few years would be oneshotted like Bloodwynd and Maxima. Superman was hurting his hands punching doomsday. Thor isn't winning againrt doomsday. At least not in character.


Teams job. Inverse Ninja Law happens a lot, especially to new threats. Not only that, you'd also have to ignore all the beings whom Thor has staggered or harmed with his power output or somehow think Doomsday is significantly more powerful than everyone Thor's hurt within the past few years alone. And how do you get that Thor of the previous few years would be one shotted? Based on what? Certainly not based off of his ongoing titles. You'd have to specifically ignore those and focus exclusively on his guest appearances in team books and events to even begin to get to that conclusion.

Not sure how Superman hurting his hands on Doomsday matters much to a guy who's going to be using his hammer or elemental attacks one way or the other. Thor using brawling and ranged hammer throws and storm summoning can certainly beat Doomsday.

And thinking the above doesn't equate into lowballing Doomsday at all, but rather just realizing what Thor can and has done. So really, who's lowballing Doomsday here?

Originally posted by Golgo13
He's probably talking about this one. Crazy feat.

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg587/golgi7777/SU_zpsd47b3a01.jpg

Yeah, I know what ft he is talking about. That makes Superman and a Lantern a planet pusher. I'm not taking about that ft though.

Originally posted by carver9
Yeah, I know what ft he is talking about. That makes Superman and a Lantern a 50/50 planet pusher.

How do you know it was 50/50?

Originally posted by Golgo13
How do you know it was 50/50?

Because Superman asked Lantern to "puuuuuullll".

Originally posted by carver9
Because Superman asked Lantern to "puuuuuullll".

So?

There's no way to assume how much force was being used by either person to move the planet and it's dumb to try and assume one way or the other.

Originally posted by Golgo13
So?

Also, in the scan you presented, Lantern said "we've got to pull".

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
There's no way to assume how much force was being used by either person to move the planet and it's dumb to try and assume one way or the other.

Originally posted by carver9
Also, in the scan you presented, Lantern said "we've got to pull".

And? Let's say you and I were to pull a huge bag to your car. I would say I would do most of the work, because you're a pretty weak guy (Hal Jordan). Just because we both pushed it, doesn't mean we both did equal work. It's obvious Superman did more.

Originally posted by Golgo13
And? Let's say you and I were to pull a huge bag to your car. I would say I would do most of the work, because you're a pretty weak guy (Hal Jordan). Just because we both pushed it, doesn't mean we both did equal work. It's obvious Superman did more.

That would make sense...if the "weak guy" didn't have a thought based weapon limited only by willpower.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
That would make sense...if the "weak guy" didn't have a thought based weapon limited only by willpower.

I don't think Hal has ever really moved an object close to earth weight. Superman's will is supreme.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Teams job. Inverse Ninja Law happens a lot, especially to new threats. Not only that, you'd also have to ignore all the beings whom Thor has staggered or harmed with his power output or somehow think Doomsday is significantly more powerful than everyone Thor's hurt within the past few years alone. And how do you get that Thor of the previous few years would be one shotted? Based on what? Certainly not based off of his ongoing titles. You'd have to specifically ignore those and focus exclusively on his guest appearances in team books and events to even begin to get to that conclusion.

Not sure how Superman hurting his hands on Doomsday matters much to a guy who's going to be using his hammer or elemental attacks one way or the other. Thor using brawling and ranged hammer throws and storm summoning can certainly beat Doomsday.

And thinking the above doesn't equate into lowballing Doomsday at all, but rather just realizing what Thor can and has done. So really, who's lowballing Doomsday here?
Not against a character who was just debuting. Why did JLA job? What had hurt doomsday before to make you say that? This is just waving your hand and saying "Doomsday's feat doesn't count, JLA jobbed!".

Thor in general doesn't packs more power than JLA+Superman. If you think picking feats from four decades makes him more powerful than that, I'm just going to laugh at you.

You can shout "leave thor's 100+ appearances from Avengers, New Avengers and fourty other titles and just pick his 21 issue long title to gauge his power level" till you're blue in the face. Wouldn't matter, Thor had a rough year. Accept it and move on.

Thor in character wouldn't beat doomsday. He is going to last awhile long but he would die if he doesn't BFR doomsday.

Originally posted by carver9
Hard to argue against something that was stated on panel, bro.
Feats>Statements. Particulary since Byrne Superman was always doubting himself. He moved earth, moon and a huge ship through hyperspace. That trumps superman doubting himself like usual.

--

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
There's no way to assume how much force was being used by either person to move the planet and it's dumb to try and assume one way or the other. Sure there is. Hal's entire concentration was focused on his construct which was crumbling. Also Starbreaker boasted about using countless suns as an energy source. All things taking into account, superman stalemated starbreaker's push and stored earth in orbit.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Not against a character who was just debuting. Why did JLA job? What had hurt doomsday before to make you say that? This is just waving your hand and saying "Doomsday's feat doesn't count, JLA jobbed!".

Thor in general doesn't packs more power than JLA+Superman. If you think picking feats from four decades makes him more powerful than that, I'm just going to laugh at you.

You can shout "leave thor's 100+ appearances from Avengers, New Avengers and fourty other titles and just pick his 21 issue long title to gauge his power level" till you're blue in the face. Wouldn't matter, Thor had a rough year. Accept it and move on.

Thor in character wouldn't beat doomsday. He is going to last awhile long but he would die if he doesn't BFR doomsday.

What?

So, basically, you think Thor can't harm Doomsday based on Doomsday rolling through the JLA + Superman (even though individual members of that roster including Superman himself had plenty of feats to suggest they could harm some incredibly powerful beings) and at the same time dismiss the many times Thor's harmed people way outside his tier? How does that even begin to make sense? And how does that equate to me saying "Doomsday's feat doesn't count"?

Four decades? Try within the past few years, bro. barker

Now you're just being ridiculous here. 100s of appearances across 40+ titles? Really? No one's saying that, so please, keep your hyperbolic projected arguments out of this thread. If you read Thor's ongoings (from JMS up to Aaron) in addition to his role in the Avengers franchise and events since his return from death, you'd easily see the feats he's displayed routinely to suggest him hurting Doomsday and surviving the encounter as well. Ignoring it and instead looking at the seldom times he's been KO'd or looked less than spectacular and trying to argue that those comics hold more weight than his own titles is painfully transparent, self serving, and lowballing alike.

Thor can totally beat Doomsday without BFR.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
That would make sense...if the "weak guy" didn't have a thought based weapon limited only by willpower. And whose full focus was on his crumbling construct. GLs throw all their power in the constructs when they start to crumble.

Don't get why ABHI even brought up the JLA roster when Superman soloed Doomsday and killed him.

Originally posted by abhilegend
And whose full focus was on his crumbling construct. GLs throw all their power in the constructs when they start to crumble.

He made the harness for Superman and even stated that "we've" got to pull the planet back into place. It makes zero sense for Hal to not contribute anything to that effort especially when we have dialogue telling us it was a joint effort. Sure, I can buy Superman doing most of the work, but to try and quantify how much work or state Superman did all of it doesn't make sense.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
He made the harness for Superman and even stated that "we've" got to pull the planet back into place. It makes zero sense for Hal to not contribute anything to that effort especially when we have dialogue telling us it was a joint effort. Sure, I can buy Superman doing most of the work, but to try and quantify how much work or state Superman did all of it doesn't make sense.

I never said Hal didn't help, just that Superman did most of the pulling. Not a 50/50 feat, IMO. More like 75/25 or so. But like you said, it's impossible to tell.

Originally posted by Golgo13
I never said Hal didn't help, just that Superman did most of the pulling. Not a 50/50 feat, IMO. More like 75/25 or so. But like you said, it's impossible to tell.

Exactly.

It's a shared feat.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
What?

So, basically, you think Thor can't harm Doomsday based on Doomsday rolling through the JLA + Superman (even though individual members of that roster including Superman himself had plenty of feats to suggest they could harm some incredibly powerful beings) and at the same time dismiss the many times Thor's harmed people way outside his tier? How does that even begin to make sense? And how does that equate to me saying "Doomsday's feat doesn't count"?

Four decades? Try within the past few years, bro. barker

Now you're just being ridiculous here. 100s of appearances across 40+ titles? Really? No one's saying that, so please, keep your hyperbolic projected arguments out of this thread. If you read Thor's ongoings (from JMS up to Aaron) in addition to his role in the Avengers franchise and events since his return from death, you'd easily see the feats he's displayed routinely to suggest him hurting Doomsday and surviving the encounter as well. Ignoring it and instead looking at the seldom times he's been KO'd or looked less than spectacular and trying to argue that those comics hold more weight than his own titles is painfully transparent, self serving, and lowballing alike.

Thor can totally beat Doomsday without BFR.
Sure I would. Doomsday rolling through JLA isn't jobbing on their part. It was set as a standard level for a character making his debut. Sure they have and they haven't hurt lesser beings than those. On average Thor's power output would be easily tanked by doomsday. Sure Thor has hurt people outside his tier but superman has made a career out of those showings. Doomsday would tank thor's hits like he did to superman.

You are doing nothing but repeating yourself here. Sure Thor has some good showings but his bad showings outweigh them. JMS' thor had odinpower and Aaron had freaking Rachel summers totally no selling thor's double hand mjolnir attack. Thor isn't surviving DOS doomsday let alone winning.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
He made the harness for Superman and even stated that "we've" got to pull the planet back into place. It makes zero sense for Hal to not contribute anything to that effort especially when we have dialogue telling us it was a joint effort. Sure, I can buy Superman doing most of the work, but to try and quantify how much work or state Superman did all of it doesn't make sense.
He didn't feel starbreaker's pull getting stronger and was baffled why they were losing ground. Only superman felt the pull. Also its idiotic to think that hal could provide anything when his focus was totally on his crumbling construct. Its a feat way beyond simply planet moving.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Exactly.

It's a shared feat.
It isn't. Even if it was a joint effort, it doesn't makes much difference. Its still way beyond thor's pay grade.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Sure I would. Doomsday rolling through JLA isn't jobbing on their part. It was set as a standard level for a character making his debut. Sure they have and they haven't hurt lesser beings than those. On average Thor's power output would be easily tanked by doomsday. Sure Thor has hurt people outside his tier but superman has made a career out of those showings. Doomsday would tank thor's hits like he did to superman.

You are doing nothing but repeating yourself here. Sure Thor has some good showings but his bad showings outweigh them. JMS' thor had odinpower and Aaron had freaking Rachel summers totally no selling thor's double hand mjolnir attack. Thor isn't surviving DOS doomsday let alone winning.

Thor's "average" power output is enough to hurt Doomsday. His no holding back power output is definitely enough to hurt Doomsday. Considering all the people whom Thor's consistently been able to hurt, there's no reason to think that Thor can't hope to hurt Doomsday at all. Sure, Doomsday would shrug off Thor's love taps, but as the fight progressed, Thor's more powerful attacks would effect him.

What? "Some" good showings? Reread his on-goings and the Thor centric events and minis he's been in since he came back. JMS Thor had Odinforce for the majority of his run, yes; I used it as a reference point to start counting "current" Thor. And in AvX, Thor shattered P-5 Emma's physical form and clipped the PF's wings. That's without considering the various feats people like Gieron, Fraction, Bendis, and others have had Thor do since he returned to comics. Not sure how anyone who actually has read Thor books for the past several years can seriously argue that they somehow have less weight concerning his showings in random books and ignore Thor's good showings in the same breath.

Thor's survived worst than DoS Doomsday. More than once.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Thor's "average" power output is enough to hurt Doomsday. His no holding back power output is definitely enough to hurt Doomsday. Considering all the people whom Thor's consistently been able to hurt, there's no reason to think that Thor can't hope to hurt Doomsday at all. Sure, Doomsday would shrug off Thor's love taps, but as the fight progressed, Thor's more powerful attacks would effect him.

What? "Some" good showings? Reread his on-goings and the Thor centric events and minis he's been in since he came back. JMS Thor had Odinforce for the majority of his run, yes; I used it as a reference point to start counting "current" Thor. And in AvX, Thor shattered P-5 Emma's physical form and clipped the PF's wings. That's without considering the various feats people like Gieron, Fraction, Bendis, and others have had Thor do since he returned to comics. Not sure how anyone who actually has read Thor books for the past several years can seriously argue that they somehow have less weight concerning his showings in random books and ignore Thor's good showings in the same breath.

Thor's survived worst than DoS Doomsday. More than once.
No, he wouldn't. Superman has hurt people way above his tier and he didn't hurt doomsday combined with JLA. Its called the law of averages. Unless you think on average Thor packs more power than Superman+JLA.

That's like one good showing in which he destroyed Emma's diamond body and then got ****ing destroyed in h2h. Naked form PF doesn't has any durability feat to its credit. Xorn tore it apart and shiar have made it their *****. Considering how much he was nerfed, ****ing rulk performed better against both Emma and Cyclops. You don't get it, having a few good feats in your own comic is no big deal. Its how you perform compared to other characters which matters.

Thor has been in mortal danger more times by being way below DOS Doomsday than vice versa. Remember Durok?

Originally posted by abhilegend
No, he wouldn't. Superman has hurt people way above his tier and he didn't hurt doomsday combined with JLA. Its called the law of averages. Unless you think on average Thor packs more power than Superman+JLA.

That's like one good showing in which he destroyed Emma's diamond body and then got ****ing destroyed in h2h. Naked form PF doesn't has any durability feat to its credit. Xorn tore it apart and shiar have made it their *****. Considering how much he was nerfed, ****ing rulk performed better against both Emma and Cyclops. You don't get it, having a few good feats in your own comic is no big deal. Its how you perform compared to other characters which matters.

Thor has been in mortal danger more times by being way below DOS Doomsday than vice versa. Remember Durok?

Superman not hurting Doomsday with the JLA and then turning around and hurting Doomsday once he went into "srs bizness" mode means what? It certainly doesn't mean you can take Thor and force him into whatever preconceived "average" depiction you feel like and dismiss the numerous times he's gone all out which more than support him hurting Doomsday.

He was decimated due to Emma regenerating. And even so, that's just AvX alone. Not Fear Itself or Siege or the countless other beings whom Thor has rocked over the handful of recent years.

And what's this? Thor's own comic doesn't matter or count as much as Thor outside of his book due to how he's compared with other characters? This makes no sense. An ongoing series centered around a specific character clearly and very obviously holds more weight than a book NOT dedicated to their development as a character and various centric plots and story lines. That much is made abundantly clear when team books and crossover events often don't reference the goings on in said characters ongoing or even have the time to develop said character nearly to the degree or depth that an ongoing would. That's like saying Spider-Man as he appeared in the Avengers titles is more accurate and paints a better picture of the character than how he was portrayed in Amazing Spider-Man. Makes no sense at all. Guest roles and appearances outside of their ongoing certainly count for characters, but they don't overrule them in terms of significance. That's why single characters have ongoings to begin with, especially someone like Thor who was introduced as a solo character before he was an Avenger. facepalm

The same guy who Thor obliterated without Mjolnir? What the hell about him? You seem to think that Thor will just stay in what you feel is his "average" mindset/depiction and won't be willing to go to the lengths needed to beat Doomsday.

Solo books always take precedence, tbh...

Originally posted by carver9
Don't get why ABHI even brought up the JLA roster when Superman soloed Doomsday and killed him.

Wha? You cant possibly be remotely serious about this statement (as anyone who actually read DOS knows that clearly wasnt so).

DOS Doomsday is too much for just any single Herald level foe, he was a match for Superman + JLA + Supergirl (Matrix) + LexCorp weaponry. I dont see Thor or Hulk even being that.

Originally posted by carver9
Hard to argue against something that was stated on panel, bro.

I'll remember you said that, in future.

==

Also, guys, no backseat modding.

Originally posted by ODG
Doomsday basically went the way of Abomination. The basic concept underlying him just continually eroded over the years (with one or two exceptions) until it pretty much hit bottom. That's really all there is to it.

Meanwhile, Thor fought off WWH amped with a Mjolnir knockoff while double-teamed by another entity that had curbstomped Rulk almost effortlessly (Angrir). All while fighting like Superman. The method of battle here doesn't seem all that relevant in the face of that.

oh, i'm not arguing what happened to the character later on. it hurt me inside a little.

i know what you're saying about thor, but you could probably say the same or similar things about that era's superman or guy gardner i think. i think we're just looking at it differently. i've said this before--i personally have a hard time divorcing dd from his intended characterization. thor could bfr and win, no doubt. if i sub in thor in that book, i just see a similar result if he fought like he traditionally might. throughout the book dd was getting stronger and faster. as a plot device, i can pretty easily see him adapting to whatever thor would throw at him. likewise hulk. he could just keep amping his strength and healing, and then there is his speed.

You guys really don't like what they did with Doomsday? Or are we talking about that last, horrible arc he was in?

Originally posted by -Pr-
You guys really don't like what they did with Doomsday? Or are we talking about that last, horrible arc he was in?

well, after hp we had that disaster called rex. i also didn't like what they did with him in the imperiex arc very much, though getting ashed by imperiex isn't exactly a low showing i know....

i liked the idea of dd in the gog wars arc a lot, but we never really saw his capabilities. the brainiac stuff didn't work for me either.

you never really gave your input though. you think thor or hulk would fare better than supes did in that last battle?

Originally posted by leonidas
well, after hp we had that disaster called rex. i also didn't like what they did with him in the imperiex arc very much, though getting ashed by imperiex isn't exactly a low showing i know....

i liked the idea of dd in the gog wars arc a lot, but we never really saw his capabilities. the brainiac stuff didn't work for me either.

you never really gave your input though. you think thor or hulk would fare better than supes did in that last battle?

depends. are we talking about a forum battle, or how it would go if doomsday was introduced in to a comic with the same intent as he was in dc?

Originally posted by -Pr-
depends. are we talking about a forum battle, or how it would go if doomsday was introduced in to a comic with the same intent as he was in dc?

lol, that's the same thing i always have trouble with. i don't think it was made very clear, so i do think there are 2 legit ways to view this topic.

Originally posted by leonidas
lol, that's the same thing i always have trouble with. i don't think it was made very clear, so i do think there are 2 legit ways to view this topic.

lol ah.

Well obviously if it was a comic, someone gonna die. And even if it's Doomsday, he's going to take a few with him.

In a forum fight, though, I can see Thor beating him. Doomsday was a herald back then even by today's standards, so he's not going down easy. I think Hulk would have a harder time with him due to his obvious limitations, but I still think he'd probably take it.

fair enough. i can agree with that.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Superman not hurting Doomsday with the JLA and then turning around and hurting Doomsday once he went into "srs bizness" mode means what? It certainly doesn't mean you can take Thor and force him into whatever preconceived "average" depiction you feel like and dismiss the numerous times he's gone all out which more than support him hurting Doomsday.

He was decimated due to Emma regenerating. And even so, that's just AvX alone. Not Fear Itself or Siege or the countless other beings whom Thor has rocked over the handful of recent years.

And what's this? Thor's own comic doesn't matter or count as much as Thor outside of his book due to how he's compared with other characters? This makes no sense. An ongoing series centered around a specific character clearly and very obviously holds more weight than a book NOT dedicated to their development as a character and various centric plots and story lines. That much is made abundantly clear when team books and crossover events often don't reference the goings on in said characters ongoing or even have the time to develop said character nearly to the degree or depth that an ongoing would. That's like saying Spider-Man as he appeared in the Avengers titles is more accurate and paints a better picture of the character than how he was portrayed in Amazing Spider-Man. Makes no sense at all. Guest roles and appearances outside of their ongoing certainly count for characters, but they don't overrule them in terms of significance. That's why single characters have ongoings to begin with, especially someone like Thor who was introduced as a solo character before he was an Avenger. facepalm

The same guy who Thor obliterated without Mjolnir? What the hell about him? You seem to think that Thor will just stay in what you feel is his "average" mindset/depiction and won't be willing to go to the lengths needed to beat Doomsday.
It means that All out superman>superman+JLA. It wasn't for the first time and it wouldn't be the last time it happened.

They don't take the precedence but to pretend that 21 issues of fraction thor makes the low showings thor had in almost 100 other issues is laughable. Yes, thor has hurt beings above his tiers but that doesn't raises his average higher against his own peers. He fought evenly with surfer and then caved galactus' head in while Odin's headbutt did nothing to G. That doesn't means that Thor didn't fought surfer evenly. BRB also cracked G's armor and then got owned by surfer. The thing is, a character hurting skyfathers and abstracts is all right but it doesn't denotes their average portrayals. Their performance against their peers denote that.

Remember how he nearly killed thor? That would be the average portrayal of Thor. Thor doesn't goes busting beings above his strength levels on average. He wouldn't go to the length to which you're clinging to, CIS is on. Nothing thor would do on average would be sufficient to stop doomsday.

Originally posted by carver9
Also, in the scan you presented, Lantern said "we've got to pull". If you would have read my post on the force it took to achieve the feat then you would know that assuming 50/50 that Superman was applying more than 50 Earth weights of force.

Not all planet pushing is the same. The faster you push a planet then the more force it takes. F= Mass times Acceleration

Barely moving a planet vs. moving it at great acceleration and the difference is astronomical.

Originally posted by abhilegend
It means that All out superman>superman+JLA. It wasn't for the first time and it wouldn't be the last time it happened.

They don't take the precedence but to pretend that 21 issues of fraction thor makes the low showings thor had in almost 100 other issues is laughable. Yes, thor has hurt beings above his tiers but that doesn't raises his average higher against his own peers. He fought evenly with surfer and then caved galactus' head in while Odin's headbutt did nothing to G. That doesn't means that Thor didn't fought surfer evenly. BRB also cracked G's armor and then got owned by surfer. The thing is, a character hurting skyfathers and abstracts is all right but it doesn't denotes their average portrayals. Their performance against their peers denote that.

Remember how he nearly killed thor? That would be the average portrayal of Thor. Thor doesn't goes busting beings above his strength levels on average. He wouldn't go to the length to which you're clinging to, CIS is on. Nothing thor would do on average would be sufficient to stop doomsday.

And what does that have to do with Thor? All out Thor does crazy shit that's beyond his peers and allies alike as well unless you're arguing he won't go that far against Doomsday or even if he does it won't matter, both of which don't make sense.

21 issues? I'm not just talking about "Mighty Thor" by Fraction. I'm talking the issues of Thor - prior to it being re-titled Journey into Mystery - he did prior to that, the issues done by Gillen, the issues JMS did (barring OF Thor of course), all the Thor mini series and one shots, events such as Siege, Chaos War, and Fear Itself, and his showings in the Avengers book in addition to AvX. So, unless you want to prove that there's literally "100s" of low showings that demote Thor somehow and how those showings hold more weight than everything I've listed, your point is invalid.

And when Thor took the kid gloves off, he obliterated him. And Thor won't stop holding back and unleash his higher end attacks and feats because you said so? How does that make sense? No one's saying Thor's going to start acting like Tournament Mode Thor or anything. When the stakes are high, Thor operates on a higher level. Nothing CIS off about it. And per the OP, this is the "final stand" part of DoS in the Marvel Universe. There's no reason Thor - or Hulk - in this battle WON'T go all out and operate above their "average".

Originally posted by DTM
Wha? You cant possibly be remotely serious about this statement (as anyone who actually read DOS knows that clearly wasnt so).

DOS Doomsday is too much for just any single Herald level foe, he was a match for Superman + JLA + Supergirl (Matrix) + LexCorp weaponry. I dont see Thor or Hulk even being that.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
There's no reason Thor - or Hulk - in this battle WON'T go all out and operate above their "average".

my only issue with this is--superman DID go all out. in the context of the story, it's the hardest he ever fought. the same argument can be brought to bear regarding supes--supes has also fought well above his average and beat people he wasn't supposed to many times. and he still died. for my part, i've been assuming thor and hulk would be going all out, (for thor, going all out to me would be lightning and striking, not including a gb or bfr though i get it if anyone says his best would include those things) fighting at their best. i'm just not sure their best is necessarily better than superman's best.

superman only killed doomsday when he stopped holding back at the end.

Originally posted by -Pr-
superman only killed doomsday when he stopped holding back at the end.

yep, and the price he paid was hefty indeed.

yep. he was stuck with lois for almost two more decades.

Originally posted by -Pr-
yep. he was stuck with lois for almost two more decades. Thanks for a good laugh.

Originally posted by -Pr-
yep. he was stuck with lois for almost two more decades.

geez.....what'd lois do to you?

Originally posted by kgkg
Thanks for a good laugh.

badawe

Originally posted by leonidas
geez.....what'd lois do to you?

Originally posted by leonidas
my only issue with this is--superman DID go all out. in the context of the story, it's the hardest he ever fought. the same argument can be brought to bear regarding supes--supes has also fought well above his average and beat people he wasn't supposed to many times. and he still died. for my part, i've been assuming thor and hulk would be going all out, (for thor, going all out to me would be lightning and striking, not including a gb or bfr though i get it if anyone says his best would include those things) fighting at their best. i'm just not sure their best is necessarily better than superman's best.

I'm not saying he didn't.

All I'm saying is that given feats from both Hulk and Thor, them going all out fighting to the death certainly enables them to win this match. My only real issue given this thread is the fact that Abhi thinks there's nothing but lowballing going around against Doomsday, but in the same breath, legitimately believes that Thor's appearances in AvX, Avengers Assemble, and his other guest appearances in the past year (of which he believes there's hundreds) somehow outweigh all of Thor's impressive feats within recent years.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I'm not saying he didn't.



it just sounded a little (unintentionally i'm aware) like you were ascribing an argument that fits BOTH sides equally well. imo to suggest thor or hulk wins, (i'm talking about ONE fight, not a number out of ten) you need to either believe thor/hulk>superman fighting at his best, or you need to believe dd wouldn't be able to adapt to either one of them. i'm just curious about which way you're thinking. or if there's something else you're thinking that i missed.



lol well.....you're surprised?

Originally posted by leonidas


it just sounded a little (unintentionally i'm aware) like you were ascribing an argument that fits BOTH sides equally well. imo to suggest thor or hulk wins, (i'm talking about ONE fight, not a number out of ten) you need to either believe thor/hulk>superman fighting at his best, or you need to believe dd wouldn't be able to adapt to either one of them. i'm just curious about which way you're thinking. or if there's something else you're thinking that i missed.



lol well.....you're surprised?

I think that Hulk would likely fare better than Thor simply due to his amping and healing, both of which increase with anger. I could see even Savage Hulk winning after a grueling contest. As far as Thor goes, his main claim to fame and most powerful attacks are from a magical hammer and massive energy output. That's not to say he's more powerful than or better than Superman, just that his method of fighting is different than Kal's. Kal was hurting himself due to relying on his bare hands (his bread and butter as far as attacks go). Thor would have no issues on that front considering his primary offensive capabilities. He also has the means to dictate the flow of the fight by attacking Doomsday from afar if he so chooses or various weather conditions. Even assuming DD begins to adapt and the like, we still have Thor being capable of regularly phasing beings well outside his "tier" when he's confronted against them. To that end, I find it unlikely that, given the thread's scenario, that an all out fighting to the bitter end Thor couldn't slay DoS Doomsday.

Not really, no, unfortunately.

Originally posted by leonidas
geez.....what'd lois do to you? actually slept with his man

Originally posted by leonidas
oh, i'm not arguing what happened to the character later on. it hurt me inside a little.

i know what you're saying about thor, but you could probably say the same or similar things about that era's superman or guy gardner i think. i think we're just looking at it differently. i've said this before--i personally have a hard time divorcing dd from his intended characterization. thor could bfr and win, no doubt. if i sub in thor in that book, i just see a similar result if he fought like he traditionally might. throughout the book dd was getting stronger and faster. as a plot device, i can pretty easily see him adapting to whatever thor would throw at him. likewise hulk. he could just keep amping his strength and healing, and then there is his speed. Do you have a hard time divorcing the concept of Abomination as being definitively Savage Hulk's superior from where he is right now? And it's not like he remained static either, he was upgraded even a few times. Do you think Abomination would beat the crap out of Thor since Thor could never definitively beat Savage Hulk over decades of fights?

If you don't, then with regards to Doomsday, you're just holding onto his very first portrayal, which has been utterly diluted by subsequent events to the point of being outdated. Doing so, makes about as much sense as thinking Thor would get his butt whupped to holy hell by Abomination. Originally posted by -Pr-
You guys really don't like what they did with Doomsday? Or are we talking about that last, horrible arc he was in? After Hunter/Prey, you had things like Braniac using drugs to control Doomsday, Doomsday Rex getting no-sold by Superman, Doomsday clones being blown up by batarangs, Doomsday taking years to tunnel through granite, Doomsday getting defeated in 3 panels by two Supermen, Doomsday getting curbstomped by red-shirt Kyrptonians and then... Reign of Doomsdays. It was pretty bad.

Originally posted by ODG
Do you have a hard time divorcing the concept of Abomination as being definitively Savage Hulk's superior from where he is right now? And it's not like he remained static either, he was upgraded even a few times. Do you think Abomination would beat the crap out of Thor since Thor could never definitively beat Savage Hulk over decades of fights?

different situations imo. there have been many characters who made an initial splash only to come dramatically down to earth afterwards. we could even throw logan into that stew.... dd was a little different. he killed superman. that's different from beating up hulk once 35yrs ago. he was created to be superman's ultimate foe. that's been sullied beyond recognition but doesn't change his intent in that particular arc nor his plot device power set. could thor win? sure. would he? i'm less sure of that.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I'm not saying he didn't.

All I'm saying is that given feats from both Hulk and Thor, them going all out fighting to the death certainly enables them to win this match. My only real issue given this thread is the fact that Abhi thinks there's nothing but lowballing going around against Doomsday, but in the same breath, legitimately believes that Thor's appearances in AvX, Avengers Assemble, and his other guest appearances in the past year (of which he believes there's hundreds) somehow outweigh all of Thor's impressive feats within recent years.

I read through your guys' argument a bit. Of course Thor did have a rough year, but his low showings (I would know.) But it's not quite that bad.

-beaten twice by tutinax

-beaten by taurus

-cheap shot by Hulk

-ko'd once and injured once by badoon fodder.

-Rachel Grey if it can be considered one. She was on the ropes, she just blasted him back.

-knocked off panel by PF enhanced Marvell, then beaten in their round 2 also.


and those are the most note worthy ones.


Getting beat by the phoenix 5 isn't a low showing, nor is it a low showing to get beaten by the whole PF. Being put to sleep by Xavier isn't a low showing either.

And that's about it...

I have a hard time understanding how a rough year for Thor invites people to just ignore the other decades of good feats against peers he's got going for him. He's still top dog in Marvel with the Hulk being his closest peer.

Originally posted by Damborgson
He's still top dog in Marvel with the Hulk being his closest peer.
Surfer may have something to say bout dat.

Oh yeah, him too.

Minus Thor being the top dog, I agree with everything Damborgson said.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I think that Hulk would likely fare better than Thor simply due to his amping and healing, both of which increase with anger. I could see even Savage Hulk winning after a grueling contest. As far as Thor goes, his main claim to fame and most powerful attacks are from a magical hammer and massive energy output. That's not to say he's more powerful than or better than Superman, just that his method of fighting is different than Kal's. Kal was hurting himself due to relying on his bare hands (his bread and butter as far as attacks go). Thor would have no issues on that front considering his primary offensive capabilities. He also has the means to dictate the flow of the fight by attacking Doomsday from afar if he so chooses or various weather conditions. Even assuming DD begins to adapt and the like, we still have Thor being capable of regularly phasing beings well outside his "tier" when he's confronted against them. To that end, I find it unlikely that, given the thread's scenario, that an all out fighting to the bitter end Thor couldn't slay DoS Doomsday.

Not really, no, unfortunately. But going by character Thor would most likely end up in a up close brawl with DD. And by DD being incredibly fast and relentless Thor could most likely be almost koed after a single savage combo by DD. Now out of character Thor could begin the fight staying ranged and not coming close. But again that DD was hella resistant against energy projection and very fast (hard to get a bead on).

DD's speed would be the problem that's causing Thor to do anything worthwhile. He would be on Thor like white on rice.

The "true" Doomsday is an absolute HORROR SHOW!
Undiluted and untarnished by the crappy showings that followed, Doomsday simply should not be in any sentence that involves him being easily overcome. Regardless of his opponent.

The only way Supes was able to defeat DD was to basically give up on the entire notion of making it out of the fight alive. "Surviving" was not part of the plan. He knew he had to get in there and what he had to do. He also knew what he was going to receive. It wasn't about a "fight". It was a sacrifice.

Superman had to give up his life to beat Doomsday. And, that is saying a lot. Any character involved in a physical battle with DD, should be in a life or death contest.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
And what does that have to do with Thor? All out Thor does crazy shit that's beyond his peers and allies alike as well unless you're arguing he won't go that far against Doomsday or even if he does it won't matter, both of which don't make sense.

21 issues? I'm not just talking about "Mighty Thor" by Fraction. I'm talking the issues of Thor - prior to it being re-titled Journey into Mystery - he did prior to that, the issues done by Gillen, the issues JMS did (barring OF Thor of course), all the Thor mini series and one shots, events such as Siege, Chaos War, and Fear Itself, and his showings in the Avengers book in addition to AvX. So, unless you want to prove that there's literally "100s" of low showings that demote Thor somehow and how those showings hold more weight than everything I've listed, your point is invalid.

And when Thor took the kid gloves off, he obliterated him. And Thor won't stop holding back and unleash his higher end attacks and feats because you said so? How does that make sense? No one's saying Thor's going to start acting like Tournament Mode Thor or anything. When the stakes are high, Thor operates on a higher level. Nothing CIS off about it. And per the OP, this is the "final stand" part of DoS in the Marvel Universe. There's no reason Thor - or Hulk - in this battle WON'T go all out and operate above their "average".
Like what actually? The most famous all out Thor was beaten by an injured BRB. What has he done compared to his peers in the same story like Superman did against Doomsday?

That doesn't changes much. Thor under JMS or Giffen didn't do anything particular. I'm not saying his low showing takes preference here but his average would still go down. He's not above a highly amped j'onn who just a few issues earlier was deemed more powerful than superman by starbreaker. Doomsday completely no sold him and oneshotted him along with maxima.

Because he was only slightly stronger than thor. When he met another being like Doomsday in Pagan, he got the shit beat out of him. The list of characters Thor has beaten by such tactic is exceedingly short. His all out mode is still below superman's all out mode.

@ABHI...

Was it an average Superman that beat Doomsday or a high end Superman that beat Doomsday?

Originally posted by carver9
@ABHI...

Was it an average Superman that beat Doomsday or a high end Superman that beat Doomsday?
Its an average showing for All out superman.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Its an average showing for All out superman.

The Superman that was teamed with the JLA against Doomsday, what kind of Superman was that?

Originally posted by carver9
The Superman that was teamed with the JLA against Doomsday, what kind of Superman was that?
In DOS? Holding back superman.

Originally posted by abhilegend
In DOS? Holding back superman.

So Superman gave his all, everything he had against Doomsday at the end of the battle, correct?

Originally posted by carver9
So Superman gave his all, everything he had against Doomsday at the end of the battle, correct?

IIRC, It was until the end that He went all out, but he had already expended most of his sunlight reserves trying to subdue Doomsday.

If he had done that (going all out) since the beginning of the fight, He would have won.

Originally posted by carver9
So Superman gave his all, everything he had against Doomsday at the end of the battle, correct?
Yes. Where are you going with this carv?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yes. Where are you going with this carv?

You're arguing Superman at his best but using Thor at his average. That's where I'm going with this.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
IIRC, It was until the end that He went all out, but he had already expended most of his sunlight reserves trying to subdue Doomsday.

If he had done that (going all out) since the beginning of the fight, He would have won.

Exactly. I know this. I'm just pointing out how ABHI is being a hypocrite..using Superman at his beat but Thor at his average. I'm done. I usually don't reply in the threads I make. Enjoy.

Originally posted by carver9
Exactly. I know this. I'm just pointing out how ABHI is being a hypocrite..using Superman at his beat but Thor at his average. I'm done. I usually don't reply in the threads I make. Enjoy.

He just told you, that Superman went all out in the end.

Originally posted by carver9
The Superman that was teamed with the JLA against Doomsday, what kind of Superman was that?
Originally posted by abhilegend
In DOS? Holding back superman.
Originally posted by carver9
So Superman gave his all, everything he had against Doomsday at the end of the battle, correct? Originally posted by abhilegend
Yes. Where are you going with this carv?

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
He just told you, that Superman went all out in the end.

You're missing my point. He is arguing Superman at his best but Thor at his average vs Doomsday.

Originally posted by carver9
You're missing my point. He is arguing Superman at his best but Thor at his average vs Doomsday.

And this thread was with the intention of pitting and all out Marvel hero who has spent MOST of his energy trying to out punch Doomsday in an all out attack in the END?

Or just a fresh all out Marvel hero vs a DOS Doomsday?

Because IMO on the first scenario all will most likely die, on the Second scenario Superman also lives.

Originally posted by carver9
You're arguing Superman at his best but using Thor at his average. That's where I'm going with this.
What are you babbling about? This isn't superman vs thor. This is about Doomsday vs Thor. FYI I wouldn't give superman a majority against Doomsday at his average portrayals.

Originally posted by leonidas
different situations imo. there have been many characters who made an initial splash only to come dramatically down to earth afterwards. we could even throw logan into that stew.... dd was a little different. he killed superman. that's different from beating up hulk once 35yrs ago. he was created to be superman's ultimate foe. that's been sullied beyond recognition but doesn't change his intent in that particular arc nor his plot device power set. could thor win? sure. would he? i'm less sure of that. I don't see how it's different at all. Nobody else had been introduced as a Hulk villain that was specifically stronger than he was. They actually resorted to pseudo-science and specifically explained his superior strength as the result of a higher bombardment of gamma rays. Furthermore, he retained his intelligence and thus was a better fighter. Classic Abomination beat up Savage Hulk in a straight-up fight so bad, that in-story, the characters actually had to resort to depowering him with a plot-device weapon -- of course much later on, being restored, and even permanently amped further, mattered little in rematches.

DOS Doomsday was specifically made to be a Superman-killer. Great. Classic Abomination was also specifically made to be a Hulk-killer. So what? Keeping original character concepts that haven't aged well simply isn't justified just because you are a fan of their debut storylines. You want to suggest I'm ignoring his basic underlying concept? How is that more justifiable than ignoring the context provided by considerable, subsequent storylines?

Like you phrased it, DOS Doomsday "made his initial splash," then just wore out as a concept and became dated as a character. And for a while now, DOS Doomsday wouldn't kill Thor (or Superman, for that matter) anymore than classic Abomination would curbstomp them.

Originally posted by ODG
I don't see how it's different at all. Nobody else had been introduced as a Hulk villain that was specifically stronger than he was. They actually resorted to pseudo-science and specifically explained his superior strength as the result of a higher bombardment of gamma rays. Furthermore, he retained his intelligence and thus was a better fighter. Classic Abomination beat up Savage Hulk in a straight-up fight so bad, that in-story, the characters actually had to resort to depowering him with a plot-device weapon -- of course much later on, being restored, and even permanently amped further, mattered little in rematches.

DOS Doomsday was specifically made to be a Superman-killer. Great. Classic Abomination was also specifically made to be a Hulk-killer. So what? Keeping original character concepts that haven't aged well simply isn't justified just because you are a fan of their debut storylines. You want to suggest I'm ignoring his basic underlying concept? How is that more justifiable than ignoring the context provided by considerable, subsequent storylines?

Like you phrased it, DOS Doomsday "made his initial splash," then just wore out as a concept and became dated as a character. And for a while now, DOS Doomsday wouldn't kill Thor (or Superman, for that matter) anymore than classic Abomination would curbstomp them. one big difference is that doomsday actually killed superman while abom never killed hulk

^ Classic Abomination never killed Hulk, but he did curbstomp him. That's why the comparison is DOS Doomsday killing Thor vs. classic Abomination curbstomping Thor.

Originally posted by ODG
You want to suggest I'm ignoring his basic underlying concept? How is that more justifiable than ignoring the context provided by considerable, subsequent storylines?


i'm not saying you're ignoring anything. i'm saying i have a hard time NOT ignoring it. but regarding how it's justified: in this case we are specifically using ONLY the one arc, and NOT all the subsequent info. i could make a thread and use the abom FROM that initial arc and, i don't know, maybe people WOULD say he curbs thor in straight h2h. the question is, are the thor and hulk from right now above that era's superman? and even if you think yes (as i no doubt believe you do), there is still the issue of dd's ability to adapt to either one of them. so, i don't see this thing as a sure-thing for thor or hulk at all.

The original Doomsday never lost its stock - every time he appeared, he wrecked shit, worse than before.

It was only after he died at the hands of Imperiex, and was rebuilt , that he started his Doomsday Rex and subsequent inferior performances.

So anyone saying otherwise is wrong.

that would include dos and hp, right? those were the only really good versions. i think gog wars dd was before imperiex as well, no?

Originally posted by leonidas
that would include dos and hp, right? those were the only really good versions. i think gog wars dd was before imperiex as well, no?

No, gog was after.

And tbh I'm with Philo on this one.

Originally posted by leonidas
that would include dos and hp, right? those were the only really good versions. i think gog wars dd was before imperiex as well, no? The versions included are the:

Doomsday Annual (which was bitchin' lantern/guardians and made Darkseid shit his pants)
Death of Superman
Hunter/Prey
Doomsday Wars
Our Worlds at War/Imperiex

The last 3 are basically the same character.

And yes, Doomsday Rex, Gog, Reign of Supermen, Infinite Crisis version were all post-death at Imperiex's hands.

Originally posted by carver9
You're arguing Superman at his best but using Thor at his average. That's where I'm going with this. No Carv. Just because a character is at their best in a comic doesn't mean they would be in a forum fight. Even if Superman was at his best then it proves how powerful DD was. It took such a Superman to put him down.

Originally posted by -Pr-
No, gog was after.

And tbh I'm with Philo on this one.

prior to his death, absolutely. i never said anything different. i didn't like what they did with the character when he came back is all. huh, i could have sworn the gog wars arc was before. that was actually one of my all time fave superman arcs. wish we would have seen more of that 'ultimate' version of dd. i had the impression he would have been truly awesome.

@phil--i forgot about that annual. lol you're right--it was very good.

Both would die.

The only chance Thor has is to stay in the air at a distance or try to bfr doomsday, throw his hammer at a distance or find the time to use his powers.

Even that might be easier said than done, because if he can't bfr him, he will have to engage in him physically and it won't end pretty for Thor.

How will Thor handle Doomsday's speed?

I would think that the Silver Surfer would have a great chance against DOS Doomsday.

Thor one punched Classic Abom

And Iron Man for this thread. Although he might not die.

Originally posted by ODG
The one arc, where Superman was much weaker than he would become. The one arc, where he didn't adapt to sh1t (so what's the point of bringing up evolution abilities?????). And I'd thank you to not begin suggesting that a Thor vs classic Abomination fight thread (from that first arc of his), would have anybody seriously arguing for Abomination. It's frankly insulting.


but even that superman had some good feats to his name. pretty sure it was phil who made a list in one of the threads and we've seen here he has been shown pulling the earth. and dd got faster and stronger as the arc went along. so, if hulk was totalled by abom, then thor ko'd him effortlessly (if it was at abom's initial level) then obviously thor back then>>>hulk? but that was never really born out in their battles that i recall sooo...yeah?

tangent aside, if you're saying hulk or thor would win, bully for you. i think a character who killed superman (even that version) is FAR from a sure-fire kill for any other herald, regardless of era.

Doomsday losing stock is an opinion, not a fact. You're free to think that way, but anyone else is free to think otherwise.

DOS Doomsday is, even by today's standards, a solid mid herald AT LEAST. Jurgen's Superman might have had a weaker average than he would have later on, but he, including the Byrne stuff, had some crazy highs, and was a solid herald in his own right.

Hulk's footstep(s) in manhattan still makes that dos climax look cute.

Except that in DOS, them punching each other was felt in Gotham.

But please, continue to compare a twenty year old Superman to a relatively recent Hulk.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Except that in DOS, them punching each other was felt in Gotham.

But please, continue to compare a twenty year old Superman to a relatively recent Hulk. That's almost the exact purpose of this thread...

"doomsday is mid herald at least", a comparison to the more contemporary is being all but being begged for

Plus I was joking (kinda), douche

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
That's almost the exact purpose of this thread...

Shut up.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
That doomsday is "mid herald at least", a comparison to the more contemporary is being all but being begged for

Plus I was joking (kinda), douche

I can never tell with you. sneer

You can't really blame me.

So quick to lash out. Very un mod-like

Originally posted by psycho gundam
So quick to lash out. Very un mod-like

You've all pushed me over the edge.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Shut up. I wonder how many low heralds could beat shitty 90's Superman...

Carver will be in here shortly to give my analysis

Originally posted by -Pr-
You've all pushed me over the edge.

took longer than i thought it would tbh...

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Carver will be in here shortly to give my analysis

who is this carVer, you speak of...

lol

Originally posted by leonidas
who is this carVer, you speak of... Carver, Carter, John, The Clown Killer, Despicable, "I'd rather get anal fisted than hear it", John Wayne Gacy, etc

All of these are applicable

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Carver, Carter, John, The Clown Killer, Despicable, "I'd rather get anal fisted than hear it", John Wayne Gacy, etc

All of these are applicable

shock

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Thor one punched Classic Abom

And Iron Man for this thread. Although he might not die.
It was a sucker shot. Although surfer, wonder man and wolverine have punched out abom too. This comparison is laughable.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
Hulk's footstep(s) in manhattan still makes that dos climax look cute.
His footsteps shook entire planet to its core?

Originally posted by abhilegend
It was a sucker shot. Although surfer, wonder man and wolverine have punched out abom too. This comparison is laughable.

and hercules.

Originally posted by abhilegend
It was a sucker shot. this is relevant to future "Superman speedblitzes Billy" arguments.

Originally posted by abhilegend
His footsteps shook entire planet to its core?

His footsteps was stated as being capable of splitting Earth in half.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
this is relevant to future "Superman speedblitzes Billy" arguments.


Originally posted by carver9
His footsteps was stated as being capable of splitting Earth in half.
I thought you were ignoring me. Also that's a lie.

Originally posted by abhilegend

I thought you were ignoring me. Also that's a lie.

You're irresistible. Also, lol...we discussed this before. It was stated Hulk steps would split the earth in Half...holding back steps.