Super Saiyan God Goku vs Kami Tenchi

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



USSJ
who would win?

Astner
Goku. Definitely. And anyone who disagrees is wrong.

Q99
Kami Tenchi stomp.

Kami Tenchi > beings who created the universe.

Esomark
Kami Tenchi's an omnipotent. Super Saiyan God Goku ran out of steam while fighting Bills. This is a major stomp.

Q99
And going beyond vague words like 'omnipotent,' we have feats like time travel, undoing the destruction of a galaxy, and dealing with the Counteractor, a being that the cousin couldn't manage without risking destruction of the universe.

danteiscool
as much as I like Goku (and I have sadly not yet seen SSG form in action), Kami Tenchi is many orders of magnitude beyond SSG Goku in power. Goku loses.

Radunuya
Come now....

Demonic Phoenix
Originally posted by Astner
Goku. Definitely. And anyone who disagrees is wrong.

thumb up

Over 9000! > Omnipotence.

SevenShackles
Originally posted by Q99
And going beyond vague words like 'omnipotent,' we have feats like time travel, undoing the destruction of a galaxy, and dealing with the Counteractor, a being that the cousin couldn't manage without risking destruction of the universe.
thumb up
Originally posted by Esomark
Kami Tenchi's an omnipotent. Super Saiyan God Goku ran out of steam while fighting Bills. This is a major stomp.
thumb up

Supra
Originally posted by USSJ
who would win?

Did you even see SS Goku God mode in action?

SSJGGogeta
Kind of close, but Goku wins this, because no matter how you look at it Bills can destroy entire universes instantly just by getting angry, and Goku was about equal to his 70% power. Kami Tenchi is not omnipotent. Where has it ever been said that he is? Just saying he has infinite power means nothing, shit, even Nappa was thought to be invincible when he first appeard, and even a god thought Frieza was unbeatable. We have to go by power scaling or feats, not just assumption. Some statements might be accurate, but they would have to be from someone who can accurately gauge power or abilities.

BloodRain
First of all where are you getting the universe buster claim from? IIRC they said galaxy in the film.



Feats?

2 LHWs is enough to destroy a universe, and normal Tenchi has up to 6, Chosins can form 10 and are Multiversal, and Kami Tenchi is above them.
Thats already the destruction done, vastly in his favour.

1000 times FTL for Tenchi, 100 quintillion times FTL for Chosin (Galactic sized, punches covers over 100,000 lightyears in seconds), and again Kami Tenchi is above them.
Speed, so easily his.

Anything else needed?

Demonic Phoenix
Originally posted by BloodRain
First of all where are you getting the universe buster claim from? IIRC they said galaxy in the film.



Feats?

2 LHWs is enough to destroy a universe, and normal Tenchi has up to 6, Chosins can form 10 and are Multiversal, and Kami Tenchi is above them.
Thats already the destruction done, vastly in his favour.

1000 times FTL for Tenchi, 100 quintillion times FTL for Chosin (Galactic sized, punches covers over 100,000 lightyears in seconds), and again Kami Tenchi is above them.
Speed, so easily his.

Anything else needed?
"It's over 9000!" > Omnipotence

Q99
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Kind of close, but Goku wins this, because no matter how you look at it Bills can destroy entire universes instantly just by getting angry, and Goku was about equal to his 70% power. Kami Tenchi is not omnipotent. Where has it ever been said that he is? Just saying he has infinite power means nothing, shit, even Nappa was thought to be invincible when he first appeard, and even a god thought Frieza was unbeatable. We have to go by power scaling or feats, not just assumption. Some statements might be accurate, but they would have to be from someone who can accurately gauge power or abilities.


Kami Tenchi is stronger than the Chousin.

The Chousin created countless universes, including higher dimensions.

They can even destroy the universe then re-create it perfectly.


Kami Tenchi is, basically, incredibly out of SSJG Goku's league. It's not even a challenge.


Plus, y'know, the time travel.



2 LHWs is enough to destroy a universe, and normal Tenchi has up to 6, Chosins can form 10 and are Multiversal, and Kami Tenchi is above them.

Uh, it takes more than 2... but they are pretty uber in base. Chousin's limit of 10 is because that's how much a 3rd dimensional universe can take.



Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
"It's over 9000!" > Omnipotence

Fortunately, Tenchi is far, far more than over 9000.


Omnipotence is a vague term that means different things in different series. No, Kami Tenchi is just flat-out stronger.

BloodRain
Originally posted by Q99
Uh, it takes more than 2... but they are pretty uber in base. Chousin's limit of 10 is because that's how much a 3rd dimensional universe can take. Zinv merged and edited two universes with them. 10+ can shatter one just from being in the same plain, but with intent 2 should be enough.

Q99
Originally posted by BloodRain
Zinv merged and edited two universes with them. 10+ can shatter one just from being in the same plain, but with intent 2 should be enough.

Zinv is something else.

A 2nd gen or a particularly strong 3rd gen tree can manage 2-3 wings.

Zinv is the counterpart to the Idol, and the Idol is the seed of a 1st gen. 1st gens have power for a lot more than 3.


Also, it wasn't Zinv directly/alone, it's just that regular travel between the two worlds was gradually causing them to collapse into each other, as a result of Zinv. Zinv was tied to it, but it's not like it could just purposefully do so.


Not all things with the same number of wings have the same abilities, as well. Tenchi when he only had three wings could do matter transfiguration, while Z with 5 couldn't. All wings provide the hax, no-limits, 'any energy that hits it regardless of amount gets transmuted to harmless form,' defense in 11-dimensions, but usage of wings beyond that vary.

cdtm
Originally posted by Q99
And going beyond vague words like 'omnipotent,' we have feats like time travel, undoing the destruction of a galaxy, and dealing with the Counteractor, a being that the cousin couldn't manage without risking destruction of the universe.

Pretty much.

The thing is, Toriyama is pretty vague on feats of the Z god hierarchy (I'm thinking on purpose).

There's been some talk of the Kaio-Shin's actually giving the Nameks the ability to create Dragon Balls (The elder Kaio Shin that powered up Gohan chastised the younger for allowing them that ability), and other talk of universal level manipulation, but not much actually shown.

The Dragon has better feats compared to them, and it's been destroyed pretty casually in the past..

Q99
Originally posted by cdtm

The Dragon has better feats compared to them, and it's been destroyed pretty casually in the past..


And the Chousin can do stuff that makes the Dragon's wishes (even the upgraded dragon) look like crap.

Esomark
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Kind of close, but Goku wins this, because no matter how you look at it Bills can destroy entire universes instantly just by getting angry, and Goku was about equal to his 70% power. Kami Tenchi is not omnipotent. Where has it ever been said that he is? Just saying he has infinite power means nothing, shit, even Nappa was thought to be invincible when he first appeard, and even a god thought Frieza was unbeatable. We have to go by power scaling or feats, not just assumption. Some statements might be accurate, but they would have to be from someone who can accurately gauge power or abilities.

Eh? Even Bills admitted Whis is stronger than him. Also, going by your logic, Bills hasn't done the destruction you claim him to be capable of since we have no feats of him doing so.

Q99
And even Whis is nothing to the Chousin, who created an endless multiverse.

Saiyan Sage
Goku is God
you cant beat God

BloodRain
What do you think Kami Tenhi is? Read the thread first.


And come on, 'god' is so overrated.

Q99
Originally posted by Saiyan Sage
Goku is God
you cant beat God

Kami = Japanese for God.


And Goku is, feats wise, nothing to Kami Tenchi. Goku is nothing to Tenchi Muyo beings less powerful than Kami Tenchi.

Esomark
I like Goku as much as the next person but the fan boyism he gets is ridiculous. The fanboys act like it's a personal insult to say Goku loses and they'll accuse you of being a DBZ hater. Come on, he's just a fictional character! It's not like it's going to hurt Goku's feelings or anything. roll eyes (sarcastic)

And BloodRain, you are correct in that "god" is overrated since it is so subjective by fictional standards, especially if you try to go by the religious context of it. I mean, there was that "sea god" in Big O and yet it still lost to the Big O. Or that Evangelion Unit-01 became a "god" when it ingested Zeruel's S2 engine but was still crucified by the MP Evas. Also, Kami himself from Dragon Ball fell behind in power and most of the Kaioshins were killed off by Buu despite being the "gods" of DBZ.

BeyonderGod
Kami tenchi isnt omnipotent........
1. Needed a human host
2. didnt create existence only re-created it
3. lacks omniscience

cdtm
Kami Tenchi, no question.

Light hawk wings vs Giga Slave is pretty much one of the staple irresistible force vs immovable object debates in anime. Anyone who thinks any DBZ character can has any chance at all of surviving the Lord of Nightmares is wrong.

naurtoisbeast
Originally posted by Q99
And even Whis is nothing to the Chousin, who created an endless multiverse. Originally posted by Q99
And even Whis is nothing to the Chousin, who created an endless multiverse. i think goku will win here

Q99
Ah, don't you love it when people come in with "X will win" with nothing to back it up?

No, naurtoisbeast, Goku has nothing in this fight.




What host? He doesn't have a host, he is Tenchi. He was a human-juraian hybrid who eventually became uber, created a trio of goddesses, who created countless universes, one of which he was born in (yes, that's circular. They don't mind).

He created the trio that created everything else.

And personally, I prefer avoiding words like 'omnipotent' and 'omniscient'. A lot of stuff that gets described that way is actually really lacking in the feats department (Like, "Ah ha, X created and omnipotent and omniscient over this universe!... which contains one world... and not everything goes according to his plan."wink

I prefer to stick with more concrete stuff, like "More powerful than a trio of multiverse creators, who are in turn have greater feats than anyone in DBZ, even Whis, let alone SSG Goku."

Oh, and 'has effortless timetravel.'

cdtm
Yep.

Kenchi gods are Marvel high end abstract level by feats. It's not an exaggeration to say the three goddesses are peers of Presence, Living Tribunal, or Lucifer Morningstar.

And they're not even the top deities.

SSJGGogeta
Going by feats, Goku wins.

Going by statements, it's unclear.

wakkawakkawakka
Kami Tenchi, similar to the Presence or TOAA is a true omnipotent: sorry Q99.

There's stuff like time-travelling, creating multiversal creators, oh and nearly destroying all of existence just by waking up.

Astner
Originally posted by cdtm
Light hawk wings vs Giga Slave is pretty much one of the staple irresistible force vs immovable object debates in anime.
No they're not. The Light-Hawk Wings have limited capabilities when it comes to matter manipulation, in fact the idea that it cancels out any assault is by "multiplying it with zero" was made up and isn't supported by any source material. Further we have this, explaining that the Light-Hawk Wings can be conventionally quantified.
And I've already explained the Giga Slave. It's only a threat to the universe if it's miscast and the Lord of Nightmares is summoned.

Originally posted by cdtm
Kenchi gods are Marvel high end abstract level by feats. It's not an exaggeration to say the three goddesses are peers of Presence, Living Tribunal, or Lucifer Morningstar.

And they're not even the top deities.
Are you referring to the Chōsin or the dimensional supervisors?

Note that this series uses universe and dimension interchangeably, so a dimension isn't spanned by a linear isomorphism, like in m-theory, but rather it's just another word for universe.

Because the former have created 10 dimensions collectively labeled the hyper-dimensions and each is supervised by a dimensional supervisor. The first dimension is supervised by D1, the second by D2, ..., the tenth by D10

As for the Chōsin, their greatest feat is the creation of the hyper-dimensions, ten universes, which really doesn't come close to the infinite multiverses of Marvel or DC.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Kami Tenchi, similar to the Presence or TOAA is a true omnipotent: sorry Q99.
No.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
oh and nearly destroying all of existence just by waking up.
Never happened.

wakkawakkawakka
Originally posted by Astner


No.


Never happened.
How so? he's the personification of the author of his series along with being the definite god of his universe so why not?

Pretty sure he got all agitated when being activated prematurely. There was the threat of it until he calmed himself down.

Astner

wakkawakkawakka

Astner
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
It not a literal personification but it is an example of the author inserting himself in the manga.
Too bad there aren't any references in the source material to solidify your speculation.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Also it serves as a comparison to TOAA who can be compared to authors in his representation.
I disagree. There have been plenty of instances of cameo appearances of writers in Marvel comics where they clearly weren't god.

http://i.imgur.com/204RF3ts.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/0iQIehSs.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/sEmumels.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/zcwsiVms.jpg
Dr. Doom having his guards subdue and lock up Stan Lee in his dungeons.

Similarly I don't think that Jack Kirby's cameo as god in Fantastic Four #511 wasn't meant to be taken too seriously either. But I digress.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Arceus isn't even multiversal IIRC. Which would put it below the Chousin who are pretty much LT(lite)
So the Chōsin are up there with the Living Tribunal because they're able to create ten universes? They're closer to Cube Beings than the Living Tribunal.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Oh you mean this: ibrkGbKriP8
So I'll correct myself it wasn't existence but rather the 3rd-dimension
And it was an awakening in the spiritual sense, not the get-up-out-of-bed sense.

wakkawakkawakka
Originally posted by Astner
Too bad there aren't any references in the source material to solidify your speculation.


Hmm...perhaps not. I'll move on from this point then.



Originally posted by Astner

I disagree. There have been plenty of instances of cameo appearances of writers in Marvel comics where they clearly weren't god.

http://i.imgur.com/204RF3ts.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/0iQIehSs.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/sEmumels.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/zcwsiVms.jpg
Dr. Doom having his guards subdue and lock up Stan Lee in his dungeons.

Similarly I don't think that Jack Kirby's cameo as god in Fantastic Four #511 wasn't meant to be taken too seriously either. But I digress.


What I was trying to address with that is that TOAA may represent the author but the author cameos may not be TOAA.

Originally posted by Astner

So the Chōsin are up there with the Living Tribunal because they're able to create ten universes? They're closer to Cube Beings than the Living Tribunal.


And it was an awakening in the spiritual sense, not the get-up-out-of-bed sense.
No they wouldn't be as strong as LT: I even put the (lite) thing to emphasize it. They would actually be a tad more powerful than Kubik, Kosmos, and Shaper: the Cube beings.

That's what I meant the first time.

Q99
Quote from Tenchi 101 facts about Lighthawk Wings:

"14. About the secret of Ko-oh-yoku (Wings of hawk of light?).
Answer:

It is a manifestation of God's aura.

More details ...
Ko-oh-yoku is a manifestation of God's aura and not a weapon. Although apart from Tsunami, one Tree can produce only three Ko-oh-yoku, they are enough to protect the entire ship. Ko-oh-yoku does not shut the incoming energy out but converts it to harmless one (one power exists that could pierce them but it requires huge amount of energy and a very big system)."



Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Going by feats, Goku wins.

Going by statements, it's unclear.

Goku's never created or destroyed universes. Tenchi created three beings capable of doing so.

It's very clear. Kami Tenchi operates on a much larger scale.


Plus, hey, time abilities. Really not much Goku can do about those anyway.




Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Kami Tenchi, similar to the Presence or TOAA is a true omnipotent: sorry Q99.

There's stuff like time-travelling, creating multiversal creators, oh and nearly destroying all of existence just by waking up.

Being able to create a multiverse doesn't actually mean omnipotent, btw.


Heck, almost destroying all of existence just by waking up would be a mark *against*, believe it or not- if there's an unintended consequence, then that's a mark showing an imperfection.


I prefer to go by simple scale and feats instead. Much harder to misconstrue than the word 'omnipotent,' which means different things to different people.

wakkawakkawakka
Originally posted by Q99

Being able to create a multiverse doesn't actually mean omnipotent, btw.


Heck, almost destroying all of existence just by waking up would be a mark *against*, believe it or not- if there's an unintended consequence, then that's a mark showing an imperfection.


I prefer to go by simple scale and feats instead. Much harder to misconstrue than the word 'omnipotent,' which means different things to different people.
You're right it doesn't. After all the Chousin can do stuff like that and they aren't omnipotent.

I saw a more of a means of showing just how powerful the being was but I see your point. However since he pretty much created his entire series, I think that's what would put him at that level. After all nobody question someone like TOAA for feats.

Hence my apology early on for using the word omnipotent. It was the first thing to pop into my head at the time.

cdtm
Astner, I'm guessing in all the Lucifer Morningstar vs LT fights, you would have come down solidly on the "Not even in the same ballpark" category. wink

But we're in agreement this match is spite? All of DBZ doesn't have anything remotely comparable?

Q99
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
After all nobody question someone like TOAA for feats.

Well, I do, even there smile

Of course, those feats, while few, are huge, so that's pretty easy and tends to return a very straitforward result. But at no point do I feel feats stop being the measure of power.


It's quite possible for something to be more impressive than TOAA.

cdtm
Originally posted by Astner
No they're not. The Light-Hawk Wings have limited capabilities when it comes to matter manipulation, in fact the idea that it cancels out any assault is by "multiplying it with zero" was made up and isn't supported by any source material. Further we have this, explaining that the Light-Hawk Wings can be conventionally quantified.
.

Well, just because the arguments are based off misinformation doesn't mean it's not been debated on pretty much every anime board ever, making it a "staple argument". wink

Seriously though, I didn't know that the "multiplying by zero" was made up. How did it fly under the radar for so long? Tenchi's rather popular, yet so's that myth.

Q99
Originally posted by cdtm

Seriously though, I didn't know that the "multiplying by zero" was made up. How did it fly under the radar for so long? Tenchi's rather popular, yet so's that myth.

I wouldn't call it a myth. That phrasing isn't used, but 'converts the energy into a harmless form' and only 'one power exists that could pierce them.'


It's more like 'gains the status effect: Useless,' but the point is with most stuff there's no piercing them no matter how much you throw.

BeyonderGod
Originally posted by Q99
Ah, don't you love it when people come in with "X will win" with nothing to back it up?

No, naurtoisbeast, Goku has nothing in this fight.




What host? He doesn't have a host, he is Tenchi. He was a human-juraian hybrid who eventually became uber, created a trio of goddesses, who created countless universes, one of which he was born in (yes, that's circular. They don't mind).

He created the trio that created everything else.

And personally, I prefer avoiding words like 'omnipotent' and 'omniscient'. A lot of stuff that gets described that way is actually really lacking in the feats department (Like, "Ah ha, X created and omnipotent and omniscient over this universe!... which contains one world... and not everything goes according to his plan."wink

I prefer to stick with more concrete stuff, like "More powerful than a trio of multiverse creators, who are in turn have greater feats than anyone in DBZ, even Whis, let alone SSG Goku."

Oh, and 'has effortless timetravel.'
What?.....i didn't say goku won I was just informing everyone the truth even then Kami Tenchi still wins.

Astner
Originally posted by cdtm
Astner, I'm guessing in all the Lucifer Morningstar vs LT fights, you would have come down solidly on the "Not even in the same ballpark" category.
People who argue for a middle ground or stalemate are generally people who either don't want to argue or don't know the characters well enough to argue.

Originally posted by Q99
I wouldn't call it a myth. That phrasing isn't used, but 'converts the energy into a harmless form' and only 'one power exists that could pierce them.'
"(one power exists that could pierce them but it requires huge amount of energy and a very big system.)"

It's clear from the context that enough energy would pierce their defenses. By saying that it can nullify any form of assault by multiplying it with zero you're implying that there's no limit to their defensive properties.

Furthermore, the notion of that only one power exists that could pierce them only applies to that setting.

"Incidentally, to increase the number of Ko-oh-yoku by one, twice as much energy is needed. (i.e. Tsunami uses 2^10/2^3 = 2^7 = 128 times as much energy.)"

From the information given we know that we can express the energy as a function of the Light-Hawk Wings as follows: E(n) = c2ⁿ, where c is a finite unknown constant and n is the amount of Light-Hawk Wings; and since c is finite, 2 is finite and n is finite it follows that E(n) is finite.

So if you a character could generate energy greater than E(n), you'd pierce the defensive properties of the Light-Hawk Wings.

Q99
No, it's clear from the context that there is a specific method which can piece the defenses, and even that method requires a lot of power. The implication being that a lot of power without that method will not do. A bit different.



Sure, if there's something compatible to the things that can cancel it (the one method, or other LHWs- so equivalents would be powers that draw on similar high-level beings). Not brute force.




No, because that's making the assumption that the wings work by using up their energy to make their defense in proportion to the attack. The wings work by converting incoming energy into a new type of energy, and it is no-where implied that it's energy decreases to do so. Indeed, quite the opposite, it apparently requires a very specific power to do so.

It costs finite amount of energy to make wings, but wings make a barrier of 'pass through this and your energy becomes harmless,' they aren't like a standard Star Trek style shield that counter power with power.

A finite cost to set up is not the same as requiring the same finite amount to knock down. Stasis fields in Known Space, for example, are fairly cheap to set up, very finite cost, you can power one in a battery you can hold, but other stasis fields are pretty much the only possible way to turn them off once they're on. Or in Fate/Stay Knight, Avalon works by removing the defender from offensive effects. It has a finite cost to activate and sustain, but raw force would never touch the one protected, instead you'd need a kind of dimension-piercer effect.

Things with finite energy cost that require specific methods to defeat are not a unique thing, in other words.



More LHWs grants more functions- a single wing is purely defense, multi-wing craft can do a lot more like space-warping, offense, matter transmutation, etc.. Nothing about this implies individual wings are piercable by brute force- indeed, the statements about the one power that exists that can pierce them implies the exact opposite.

naurtoisbeast
Originally posted by Q99
And even Whis is nothing to the Chousin, who created an endless multiverse. Originally posted by Q99
And even Whis is nothing to the Chousin, who created an endless multiverse. i think goku will win here

BeyonderGod
Originally posted by naurtoisbeast
i think goku will win here
No.....

Astner
Originally posted by Q99
No, because that's making the assumption that the wings work by using up their energy to make their defense in proportion to the attack.
Then why do you need to use up Light Hawk Wings to cancel out others?

BloodRain
Arent they only used up when facing other LHW, and not other forms of energy/attacks?

Astner
Originally posted by BloodRain
Arent they only used up when facing other LHW, and not other forms of energy/attacks?
Not based on anything from the source material.

BloodRain
So when are they used up?

Astner
Originally posted by BloodRain
So when are they used up?
I already gave you an example. When they cancel each other out, that's when the entire wing is exhausted.

What you did in retort to that was to baselessly call it an exception.

BloodRain
I wouldn't call a question a retort.

What I'm asking is if they get used up when defending from other, non LHW related attacks.

Astner
Originally posted by BloodRain
What I'm asking is if they get used up when defending from other, non LHW related attacks.
No. An entire wing was never used up except for when it did cancel out other wings.

Q99
Originally posted by Astner
Then why do you need to use up Light Hawk Wings to cancel out others?


Because in that case, they are being used to cancel out the exotic effect- note they weren't even in an offensive mode when that happened (i.e. tenchi turning a wing into a sword or such).


I'd compare it to demagnetizing a magnet. A magnet doesn't use up power to repel stuff with it's field (even with an electromagnet, the energy cost is in making the field, not whether or not the field is currently attracting or repelling anything), and pushing more against it's field doesn't negatively affect it's field strength, but things can still make it not-a-magnet.


Heck, it could also be the effect being used against each other- both wings convert the other wing to the harmless energy form.

Astner
Originally posted by Q99
Because in that case, they are being used to cancel out the exotic effect-
This isn't based on the source material.

Originally posted by Q99
note they weren't even in an offensive mode when that happened (i.e. tenchi turning a wing into a sword or such).
Neither was Z's. In fact only Tenchi ever turned his wins into a weapon, shield and outfit.

Originally posted by Q99
I'd compare it to demagnetizing a magnet. A magnet doesn't use up power to repel stuff with it's field (even with an electromagnet, the energy cost is in making the field, not whether or not the field is currently attracting or repelling anything), and pushing more against it's field doesn't negatively affect it's field strength, but things can still make it not-a-magnet.
You demagnetize a permanent magnet by either heating it up thus allowing the distribution of electrons to to even out across the metal, and you can't demagnetize an electromagnet unless you cut off the current.

Of course this analogy is completely worthless because it's not based on the source material.

Originally posted by Q99
Heck, it could also be the effect being used against each other- both wings convert the other wing to the harmless energy form.
How exactly would this make a change?

Keep in mind that we do know that they're composed of finite energy.

naurtoisbeast
Originally posted by Q99
And even Whis is nothing to the Chousin, who created an endless multiverse. Originally posted by Q99
And even Whis is nothing to the Chousin, who created an endless multiverse. i think goku will win here

BeyonderGod
*eats popcorn*

dika123
Originally posted by naurtoisbeast
i think goku will win here

GTFO

Q99
Originally posted by Astner
This isn't based on the source material.

It's based on their observed effect.



It's an analogy. The point is, you demagnetize a magnet, not by 'pushing stuff against it until it runs out of power,' but by doing something else, be it heating or turning off the current.




Because doing an exotic effect to shut them off is different than simply trying to overwhelm them with force, which as Tenchi 101 states, results in energy 'being converted to a harmless form.'





And we also know they work by converted stuff into different types of energy that is harmless to them. An attack is not even indicated to be reducing energy in the system. Heck, given by the way the source material says they work, it may add energy.


And again, there are real-life equivalents. Electromagnets take only a constant finite of energy to maintain, and it doesn't matter how many things pass through it's field or push against it, the strength of the field doesn't decrease. Pushing against the field does not drain the energy at any different rate.


There's no canon support to the idea that it uses up energy with use, rather than simply being turned on and off.

naurtoisbeast
Originally posted by Q99
And even Whis is nothing to the Chousin, who created an endless multiverse. Originally posted by Q99
And even Whis is nothing to the Chousin, who created an endless multiverse. i think goku will win here

Dramatic Gecko
Originally posted by Q99
And going beyond vague words like 'omnipotent,' we have feats like time travel, undoing the destruction of a galaxy, and dealing with the Counteractor, a being that the cousin couldn't manage without risking destruction of the universe.

Undoing the destruction of a galaxy? Effectiveness against Goku?

"Ha! Take that. I recreated a galaxy!"

Time travel.

"Now I will go back in time and stop you from being born so we can never see who is stronger..."

Dramatic Gecko
And why do people hate on Whis.

"someone or other is waaay stronger than whis"
I hear things like this all the time. Its not a very concrete argument. We haven't even seen Whis do anything except unzip matter and rezip it back up to get inside a ship.

If you judge him on anything, judge him on his culinary appreciation.

http://31.media.tumblr.com/a486f38ec304a9b7f41f252ae4ba1ae0/tumblr_mt6sdb6POF1sfa6yko2_500.gif

BloodRain
Whis is mentioned because he is the strongest being in DB canon, currently.

cdtm
Zero feats, but a strong implication he's stronger then Goku, and possibly Bills as well (By how easily he put Bills to sleep when he was rampaging around after eating over-spicy fish, destroying moons in the process.)

Q99
Originally posted by naurtoisbeast
i think goku will win here


And your opinion is wrong, of course.


Originally posted by Dramatic Gecko
Undoing the destruction of a galaxy? Effectiveness against Goku?

"Ha! Take that. I recreated a galaxy!"

Time travel.

"Now I will go back in time and stop you from being born so we can never see who is stronger..."


People who don't exist do *tend* not to be very strong, yes smile

But the simple matter is the high-dimension Tenchiverse powers limit themselves because simply fully manifesting inside a 3d universe would destroy it. "Destroy the universe for powering up" is pretty impressive by DB standards, especially if the other foe is inside the universe at the time.




Well he's certainly not multiverse-creator level smile

naurtoisbeast
Originally posted by Q99
And even Whis is nothing to the Chousin, who created an endless multiverse. Originally posted by Q99
And even Whis is nothing to the Chousin, who created an endless multiverse. i think goku will win here

dika123
narutoisbeast get the **** out here

BeyonderGod
Haha

BeyonderGod
Kami tenchi isnt omnipotent..............


From the Canon OVA:
Z: "Their goal is to create something that would surpass themselves. But they cant create that on their own. So they have to try to bring out anomalies that they cant predict themselves. Breaking the preestablished harmony of all space-time and then restoring the broken harmony at the end of that chaos. They've been waiting for the birth of those who'd possess the power to fight Tokimi when called to do so. The ones who can create Light-Hawk Wings, the very power, the life force of the choushin Myself and you!."

Tsunami: "A distant past, infinite layers of infinite time ago...with our omnipotence, we began existence from that instant. But we were troubled by a single contradiction. The trauma of the existence of a being greater than ourselves. However, we are omnipotent. And that counters the existence of higher beings."

Masaki: "That's the contradiction?"

Tsunami: "Yes. In an effort to find the hole in our omnipotence we spent infinite time conducting trail-and-error experiments."

Washu Habuki: "Incidentally,these were thought experiments and not actual tests."

Tsunami : "And so we continued to conduct infinitely more experiments over infinitely more time."

Ryoko: "Zero couldn't recognize Tokimi back then...It had perfect knowledge, so why couldn't It grasp her existence?"

Tokimi: "The Hyper-Dimensional does not abide by the laws of our lower worlds. Of course it wouldn't not understand."

Ryoko: "So who's to say you're not experiments of even higher beings?"

Tsunami: "As Ryoko-san suggests,that possibility does exist."

Tokimi: "But we cannot accept it! there are no facts or logic for us to do so!"

Washu Habuki: "So we were pretty stuck, but as a test, I wiped my memory,sealed my power inside the gems. Became an ordinary human, and sought out knowledge from square one."

Tsunami: "I used my own being as a base to try to bring forth a new life form with each successive generation."

Tokimi: "In an attempted to produce irregularities from the distortions. The possibility ultimately borne from that was Z. But that possibility collapsed."

Nothing close to Omnipotence.


But he casually beats DBZ.

Astner
-edit

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.