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If this is stable Bob, probably him.

Sentry's like a slower, stronger Superman with much more powers and hax.. pretty sure he'd wipe out the DBverse handedly.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Sentry's like a slower, stronger Superman with much more powers and hax.. pretty sure he'd wipe out the DBverse handedly. Sentry isn't anywhere near as strong as Superman is

He wins though due to energy manipulation

Wouldn't Goku outmatch Sentry's speed?

What if the Void came out and Bob was "insane" Bob?

I don't think Goku's speed would be beyond Sentry's means to deal with. He certainly a far more skilled fighter, but a stable Sentry is capable of easily blocking and shattering Terrax's axe, which can cleave through entire planets and can fight Genis Vell on even footing.

If the Void comes out, it's even more in Bob's favor.

@Chozone: What about overpowering characters with planetary strength, like Superman. Maybe not stronger but can't be that far off from him.

Sentry at peak utterly destroys Goku!!!

Especially if Goku decides to do his usual long winded dialogue.

At full focus he decimated Molecule Man.

This is Sentry's fight to lose. Speedwise he reached the Sun from the Earth mid sentence!

Especially considering that a Sentry who wishes to live CAN'T DIE.

Originally posted by BloodRain
@Chozone: What about overpowering characters with planetary strength, like Superman. Maybe not stronger but can't be that far off from him. What chracter with planetary strength did Sentry overpower?

Originally posted by the ninjak
Sentry at peak utterly destroys Goku!!!

Especially if Goku decides to do his usual long winded dialogue.

At full focus he decimated Molecule Man.

This is Sentry's fight to lose. Speedwise he reached the Sun from the Earth mid sentence!

Especially considering that a Sentry who wishes to live CAN'T DIE. Sentry didn't reach the sun from the earth in mid sentence, Iron Man was right on his tail, the number of panels isn't an accurate measure of time and for all we know he could of taken and hour to reach the sun.

Originally posted by Chozone
Sentry didn't reach the sun from the earth in mid sentence, Iron Man was right on his tail, the number of panels isn't an accurate measure of time and for all we know he could of taken and hour to reach the sun.

What issue are you referring to?
I was writing about the issue where Sentry tried to kill himself via flying in front of the Sun. He did it mid sentence.
There was no Ironman involved.

Originally posted by BloodRain
@Chozone: What about overpowering characters with planetary strength, like Superman. Maybe not stronger but can't be that far off from him.

He's a peer to Superman. Like most of the big boys are.

Originally posted by Damborgson
He's a peer to Superman. Like most of the big boys are.

Except Janithor

Originally posted by Chozone
What chracter with planetary strength did Sentry overpower?
Well there's Thor, Hulk, Terrax, Ares and the forcefields from Doom and Strange.

Hulk wouldnt be able to move even Superman with his hardest punch, let alone Sentry. As far as speed goes, even if Sentry got to the Sun from Earth mid sentence, Goku traveled across Galaxies instantaniously. I am not saying Goku would win but I am definatly saying Goku is faster. Now wether or not you consider that as actual speed, that goes from person to person, but still. Goku may not be able to damage Sentry but if he wanted to run away he would get away.

but if we go by DBZ Lore.. Goku gets killed.. Trains.. comes back and beats Sentry.. but then gives him a chance to give up and dies again.

http://images.killermovies.com/forums/customsmilies/creepsmile.gif

Thus the entire story of DBZ through each season.

Originally posted by Scarlet Fox
Hulk wouldnt be able to move even Superman with his hardest punch, let alone Sentry.
Are you basing this off the crossover?

Edit: As far as Sentry VS Hulk goes, Hulk has beaten him in canon. So there goes that trollish argument that he wouldn't be able to even move Reynolds with his hardest punch.

Originally posted by Bentley
Except Janithor
LOL, that goes without saying.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Are you basing this off the crossover?

Edit: As far as Sentry VS Hulk goes, Hulk has beaten him in canon. So there goes that trollish argument that he wouldn't be able to even move Reynolds with his hardest punch.
Well honestly I dont know much about Sentry but people kept saying he is on par with Superman so.. -shrug- And I wasnt trying to troll... well at least before the Goku comes back troll.. that was ment.

IIRC when Hulk beat Sentry it was a hair off a tie, and before he gained greater control of his power(?). And what puts Superman's strength on a much higher level than a strong Hulk's?


Also can't really give a speed advantage from his teleportation. Though if he managed to use it before being attacked he could definitely escape Sentry for a good while.. couldn't do much with this. Well, besides train <.<

Originally posted by Scarlet Fox
Well honestly I dont know much about Sentry but people kept saying he is on par with Superman so.. -shrug- And I wasnt trying to troll... well at least before the Goku comes back troll.. that was ment.
Saying that Hulk's strongest punch can't even move Superman is fanboyish/fangirlish trolling at the very least, unless one is ignorant of the characters in question or basing such a conclusion from the crossover in which Hulk actually was unable to phase Superman with his punches. And yeah, he is Superman's peer, but so is Hulk, in terms of strength at least.

Edit: Sentry wins here btw.

Originally posted by BloodRain
IIRC when Hulk beat Sentry it was a hair off a tie, and before he gained greater control of his power(?).
Per Greg Pak's run, Hulk was holding back in that scenario. Also, you're referring to Sentry's Molecule Man encounter in which he learnt the true nature of his powers, and how he wasn't as adept at using them as Owen was.

This is probably an even worse battle for Goku than being up against Superman is. Sentry got everything from Telepathy, Matter Manipulation, Time Displaced by 1 sec, Dimensional Teleportation, Ressurection, etc. Goku is gonna get worked here badly.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Per Greg Pak's run, Hulk was holding back in that scenario. Also, you're referring to Sentry's Molecule Man encounter in which he learnt the true nature of his powers, and how he wasn't as adept at using them as Owen was.
He was? Wasn't he worn out and reduced to Banner?

Thats the one.. why, does it not apply or something?

Originally posted by BloodRain
He was? Wasn't he worn out and reduced to Banner?

Thats the one.. why, does it not apply or something?
Heart of the Monster implied that all previous times he'd held back. Amadeus Cho made a similar conclusion in "Hulk Vs Hercules: When Titans Collide #1".

Not really. Just that, barring him Voiding out, he never demonstrated any freasonably good feats showcasing the full scope of his power.

In the WWH Saga Sentry and Hulk were depleted and it was a tie.

Both respected each other. And the inexperienced and doubtful Sentry just wanted to see what it felt like to let go.

The Sentry soon after jumped leaps and bounds in ability.Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Heart of the Monster implied that all previous times he'd held back. Amadeus Cho made a similar conclusion in "Hulk Vs Hercules: When Titans Collide #1".

Not really. Just that, barring him Voiding out, he never demonstrated any freasonably good feats showcasing the full scope of his power.

I can agree that WWH held back via simply challenging Sentry in a power output contest.

Sentry wins this.

And lol Whatever arguements is made it does not matter Hulk pretty much got back in the game after Rick got stabbed...

Originally posted by the ninjak
What issue are you referring to?
I was writing about the issue where Sentry tried to kill himself via flying in front of the Sun. He did it mid sentence.
There was no Ironman involved. What issue are you referring to?

Originally posted by BloodRain
Well there's Thor, Hulk, Terrax, Ares and the forcefields from Doom and Strange. He didn't overpower Hulk, Ares isn't even a class 100, he didn't overpower Thor either, he was able to withstand Thor's attacks as Void, Doom and Strange aren't planetary level and neither are there forcefields.

Originally posted by Chozone
He didn't overpower Hulk, Ares isn't even a class 100, he didn't overpower Thor either, he was able to withstand Thor's attacks as Void, Doom and Strange aren't planetary level and neither are there forcefields. This.

But still Sentry wins

Originally posted by Chozone
What issue are you referring to?
Originally posted by the ninjak
I was writing about the issue where Sentry tried to kill himself via flying in front of the Sun. He did it mid sentence.
There was no Ironman involved.

Sentry handedly takes on the DBuniverse with ease. Far stronger, far faster, far more abilities.

bump

Sentry takes this at ease,
Goku uses IT (instant transmission) in which he is stunned for less then a second after use, or more I'm not sure...but enough time for sentry to grab a hold of him and decimate him

Originally posted by TheHulk
This.

But still Sentry wins
Taking all those hits off Thor makes him durable, pre going Void. And even if Hulk wasn't going all out.. its still WWHulk.

And yeah apparently their shields have before resisted class 100 blows, and Sentry walked through two of dooms most powerful shields.

Terrax has planetary strength, who Sentry effortlessly overpowered. Same with Ares, who hangs with Thor, Hercules and was tanking attacks from Skaar.

Bump
Originally posted by BloodRain
Taking all those hits off Thor makes him durable, pre going Void. And even if Hulk wasn't going all out.. its still WWHulk.

And yeah apparently their shields have before resisted class 100 blows, and Sentry walked through two of dooms most powerful shields.

Terrax has planetary strength, who Sentry effortlessly overpowered. Same with Ares, who hangs with Thor, Hercules and was tanking attacks from Skaar.
Just to add a little context to this feat, the Ares whom he ripped apart was the very same Ares who defeated Nate Grey, an omega level mutant with vast psionic abilities and a definite high herald.

How is the guy who disintegrated Molecule Man with a thought not Superman's peer?

Because his hair is less fabulous.

Anime accepted? With that said Black hair Goku stomps. As a teen he was combating at light speed. This doesn't include his other Anime showings that would clearly put him far above Herald level.

Originally posted by carver9
Anime accepted? With that said Black hair Goku stomps. As a teen he was combating at light speed. This doesn't include his other Anime showings that would clearly put him far above Herald level. Just curious in your opinion do you think Goku could beat Death Sentry?

Manga is the primary canon. We use only that unless stated otherwise

The only thing that has DBZ chars at FTL is the outrunning Tien's solar flare, which is an outlier

Originally posted by Astner
How is the guy who disintegrated Molecule Man with a thought not Superman's peer?
Because he got beaten by Thor.

There are enough holes in the solar flare scene as it is.

Originally posted by Yamcha
Just curious in your opinion do you think Goku could beat Death Sentry?

It depends on how Sentry fought but again anime is accepted 'in this thread' so more than likely Sentry probably can't even hurt this Goku.

Originally posted by carver9
It depends on how Sentry fought but again anime is accepted 'in this thread' so more than likely Sentry probably can't even hurt this Goku.
When it comes to DBZ, you're worse than quan with Thanos.

Originally posted by Epicurus
When it comes to DBZ, you're worse than quan with Thanos.

Speaking the truth bro. If you need me to post scene proving my case...let me know.

Imp's post does say "anime and manga".

^That's not the point.

Goku dont have a way to put Sentry down. He will just reform. In the other hand Sentry have much ways to win. And he has a big speed advantage.

Originally posted by eaebiakuya
Goku dont have a way to put Sentry down. He will just reform. In the other hand Sentry have much ways to win. And he has a big speed advantage.

Sentry doesn't come close to having a speed advantage. Flight speed doesn't equal combat speed.

How is Sentry winning? A nuke hurt Sentry...Vegeta at the weakest he's even been walked through a blast that destroyed a continent/city. Goku at his weakest can tank moon busting power and when I say I literally mean TANK. Something that no Herald can do.

Originally posted by carver9
Sentry doesn't come close to having a speed advantage. Flight speed doesn't equal combat speed.

Flight speed is used in combat and that's shown even in DBZ.

Originally posted by carver9
How is Sentry winning? A nuke hurt Sentry...Vegeta at the weakest he's even been walked through a blast that destroyed a continent/city. Goku at his weakest can tank moon busting power and when I say I literally mean TANK. Something that no Herald can do.

When did Goku ever take a moon-busting attack?

>Herald tiers
>can't tank moon busters

What the ****?

Stealth, help me out. Thats guys like Surfer that can't tank moon busters, right?

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Flight speed is used in combat and that's shown even in DBZ.



When did Goku ever take a moon-busting attack?

Flight speed does not equal combat speed and Goku combat speed is greater than his flight speed unless you can show me him being invisible during flight.

Raditz tanked the same attack Piccolo used to destroy the moon. Raditz is one of the weakest characters on DBZ. Start from there.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Stealth, help me out. Thats guys like Surfer that can't tank moon busters, right?

When?

Originally posted by StealthRanger
>Herald tiers
>can't tank moon busters

What the ****?

Show me them tanking a moon busting attack.

Originally posted by carver9
Flight speed does not equal combat speed and Goku combat speed is greater than his flight speed unless you can show me him being invisible during flight.

As long as flight speed is used in combat, then it should count.

Originally posted by carver9
Raditz tanked the same attack Piccolo used to destroy the moon. Raditz is one of the weakest characters on DBZ. Start from there.

That wasn't even a moon busting attack. It was just a generic blast that only kicked up some dust.

So carver starts watching DBZ and likes it and thinks the characters can take on all of marvel and dc combined.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
As long as flight speed is used in combat, then it should count.



That wasn't even a moon busting attack. It was just a generic blast that only kicked up some dust.

Their short burst of combat speed is faster unless you can prove otherwise. Goku during his teen days moved so fast DURING COMBAT that Kami with his godly eyes was unable to detect him (and that includes Roshi and Krillin who sees bullets in slow mo) but when they fly we don't get the same results. The proof is on you my friend.

Lol...it was the same attack, same position, etc... Raditz tanked it and Piccolo was surprised. Don't know why Piccolo would hold anything back when his goal was to kill raditz. Do you think Master Roshi could kill Saiyan Saga Goku?

If Goku moved faster in a fight than when he flew he would run everywhere instead of flying. This doesn't happen.

Goku flies faster than he runs.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
If Goku moved faster in a fight than when he flew he would run everywhere instead of flying. This doesn't happen.

Goku flies faster than he runs.

Lol...stop using real world physics for a comic and why would he run when he can fly? He is obviously seeable when flying but during combat it is next to impossible to see him...even for people that could see things in super speed motion.

Let's put it like this. King Ki was able to track Goku ship that moving thousands of time the speed of light with no problem at all but when it came to tracking Frieza and Goku during combat, he said that it was near impossible to follow them. He basically lost track of them during combat. That alone explains a lot and like I've stated...the proof is on you. Show me Goku or any Z fighter flying faster than their fighting speed.

Goku during regular dragonball was so fast that he could slap bullets out of the air from multiples of guys with machine guns. I don't think anyone would say Goku after his training with Popo and Kami could fly faster than a bullet even though his combat speed was 100s of times greater (if someone say yes to this, I want them to provide proof). I just don't understand why people don't get the difference between combat speed and flight speed. They are two different things.

Because you seem to think he can run faster than he can fly, and often times people's lives, or even the planet is in danger and Goku has to freakin' hurry. Before he knew IT, that meant he had to fly.

And Goku is plainly visible while fighting otherwise his enemies wouldn't be able to defend themselves, lol.

Originally posted by carver9
Their short burst of combat speed is faster unless you can prove otherwise. Goku during his teen days moved so fast DURING COMBAT that Kami with his godly eyes was unable to detect him (and that includes Roshi and Krillin who sees bullets in slow mo) but when they fly we don't get the same results. The proof is on you my friend.

Do the characters use flight in their fights or not? Answer that.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol...it was the same attack, same position, etc... Raditz tanked it and Piccolo was surprised. Don't know why Piccolo would hold anything back when his goal was to kill raditz. Do you think Master Roshi could kill Saiyan Saga Goku?

So you don't really know for sure, you're just going by the way it looks? Sorry, that's not good enough. If it was moon-busting, it would have done more damage than that and I don't see why Piccolo would feel the need to immediately use that on an opponent he doesn't even know. Plus, he never even claimed it was moon-busting.

And no, I don't think Roshi could kill Saiyan Saga Goku (although this doesn't suddenly mean he can take a moon-busting attack, if that's what you're implying).

Mix up the two above replies and we have Goku both running and flying at ultrasupremederp speeds within, oh I don't know, about a hundred or more meters? As soon as its above that, his flying speed is drastically reduced to a millionth of that speed.

That's like Superman being able to fly at the speed of a lighting bolt for a second only to fly as fast as an arrow when going further/longer.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Because you seem to think he can run faster than he can fly, and often times people's lives, or even the planet is in danger and Goku has to freakin' hurry. Before he knew IT, that meant he had to fly.

And Goku is plainly visible while fighting otherwise his enemies wouldn't be able to defend themselves, lol.

Lol...He is visible to the fighter that is as powerful as him but is invisible to others that isn't as powerful but Hercule can see them flying away whereas him along with other Z fighters are unable to see Goku during combat.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Mix up the two above replies and we have Goku both running and flying at ultrasupremederp speeds within, oh I don't know, about a hundred or more meters? As soon as its above that, his flying speed is drastically reduced to a millionth of that speed.

That's like Superman being able to fly at the speed of a lighting bolt for a second only to fly as fast as an arrow when going further/longer.

Terrible example. Superman has flown FTL through space but doesn't have a single combat showing with him moving at FTL or even light speed. Nothing. Surfer as well. Surfer has flown FTL but he doesn't have one showing during combat with him fight FTL.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Do the characters use flight in their fights or not? Answer that.



So you don't really know for sure, you're just going by the way it looks? Sorry, that's not good enough. If it was moon-busting, it would have done more damage than that and I don't see why Piccolo would feel the need to immediately use that on an opponent he doesn't even know. Plus, he never even claimed it was moon-busting.

And no, I don't think Roshi could kill Saiyan Saga Goku (although this doesn't suddenly mean he can take a moon-busting attack, if that's what you're implying).

No...they use reflexes.

So Roshi can kill Frieza or a Super Saiyan with his moon busting attack? He can kill Saiyan saga Vegeta with his moon busting attack. Also...just thought about it. Goku and Vegeta during the Saiyan saga exchanged planet busting energy and Goku power overpowered Vegetas. Vegeta was hit by the attack but survived (planet busting).

Originally posted by carver9
Terrible example. Superman has flown FTL through space but doesn't have a single combat showing with him moving at FTL or even light speed. Nothing. Surfer as well. Surfer has flown FTL but he doesn't have one showing during combat with him fight FTL. Its only terrible because you failed to grasp the point of it, besides seeing Superman and instantly finding some anti comment. It has nothing to do with Supes.

The example is that a character can freely fly around (so disregarding dashing bursts or locomotion being slightly slower somehow) within a thousand feet, minimum fight area, at MFTL speeds.. but once they try to move a greater distance their flight, for unspecified reasons, slows them down to MHS speeds.

At least 1/1,000,000th the speed :l

Again, for unspecified reasons.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Its only terrible because you failed to grasp the point of it, besides seeing Superman and instantly finding some anti comment. It has nothing to do with Supes.

The example is that a character can freely fly around (so disregarding dashing bursts or locomotion being slightly slower somehow) within a thousand feet, minimum fight area, at MFTL speeds.. but once they try to move a greater distance their flight, for unspecified reasons, slows them down to MHS speeds.

At least 1/1,000,000th the speed :l

Again, for unspecified reasons.

Akira just had a habit of displaying DBZ characters fighting speeds at a better rate than their flight speed. Example...Frieza death beam was so fast that non of the Z fighters was able to see it (i honestly think that attack was FTL) but Vegeta was able to see and respond to the attack. Goku was able to effortlessly slap these same attacks out of the air with minimum difficulty (and with one hand) but their flight speed was no where near as fast.

No matter how fast Roshi blast made it to the moon, any Z fighter would be able to react to it. Don't you agree?

Originally posted by carver9
No...they use reflexes.

Wrong. They do use flight.

Originally posted by carver9
So Roshi can kill Frieza or a Super Saiyan with his moon busting attack? He can kill Saiyan saga Vegeta with his moon busting attack. Also...just thought about it. Goku and Vegeta during the Saiyan saga exchanged planet busting energy and Goku power overpowered Vegetas. Vegeta was hit by the attack but survived (planet busting).

And yet, none of those blasts ever actually destroyed a planet.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Wrong. They do use flight.



And yet, none of those blasts ever actually destroyed a planet.

Like I've stated before, their burst of speed is faster than their actual flight speed unless you can prove otherwise. You have no proof...that's why you keep barking the same thing.

He was hit directly with it and it was stated during the beginning of the blast (before extra power was added to it) that it was planet busting.

Originally posted by carver9
Like I've stated before, their burst of speed is faster than their actual flight speed unless you can prove otherwise. You have no proof...that's why you keep barking the same thing.

They use their flight speed in the middle of their fights. That's the one thing you're blatantly ignoring.

Originally posted by carver9
He was hit directly with it and it was stated during the beginning of the blast (before extra power was added to it) that it was planet busting.

It still didn't actually destroy a planet, though.

Besides, a much stronger Goku died from a planet busting attack later on.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
They use their flight speed in the middle of their fights. That's the one thing you're blatantly ignoring.



It still didn't actually destroy a planet, though.

Besides, a much stronger Goku died from a planet busting attack later on.

So you have that proof i have been asking for? Question...could Super Saiyan Goku deflect the blast that Piccolo used to destroy the moon (when he was at a power level of 350)?

Bro smash...you have to come at me better than this my friend.

Galactus nearly got killed from a blast that didn't even lay waste to the mountain beside him.

Thor got killed from a blast that didn't even level the mountain he was on.

Superman got killed by a punch that didn't do anything to the city.

Thanos got dropped by a blast that didn't even have the width of a Nuke.

The point is...it's not the circumference of the blast it's the wielder power that is generating said power. The planet being destroyed is the side effect, Cell power is what killed Goku unless again...you honestly believe Nappa could killed Galactus with ease.

Originally posted by carver9
So you have that proof i have been asking for? Question...could Super Saiyan Goku deflect the blast that Piccolo used to destroy the moon (when he was at a power level of 350)?

He's never done it before so I don't know.

Originally posted by carver9
Bro smash...you have to come at me better than this my friend.

Galactus nearly got killed from a blast that didn't even lay waste to the mountain beside him.

Thor got killed from a blast that didn't even level the mountain he was on.

Superman got killed by a punch that didn't do anything to the city.

Thanos got dropped by a blast that didn't even have the width of a Nuke.

The point is...it's not the circumference of the blast it's the wielder power that is generating said power. The planet being destroyed is the side effect, Cell power is what killed Goku unless again...you honestly believe Nappa could killed Galactus with ease.

First of all, you can't compare a punch to a blast.

Second have they ever taken anything far worse than that? Because if they have, then all of that is pointless.

And third, I'd rather you show me what you're talking.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
He's never done it before so I don't know.



First of all, you can't compare a punch to a blast.

Second have they ever taken anything far worse than that? Because if they have, then all of that is pointless.

And third, I'd rather you show me what you're talking.

I'm asking you if he could react to the blast.

Majority of the people I brought up have been dropped by far less "on Average". Example...Thor has died twice by a blast that didn't do anything to the planet or the area they were in. Hell, Thor got killed from a bullet to the head.

Thanos has been dropped twice by a blast resembling a Nuke.

It was stated not to long ago that a planetary blast could kill Galactus and Superman just stated that there is only one being in the entire Universe that has the power to destroy a freaking planet.

http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/carver9/media/Screenshot_2014-05-27-20-58-27_zps2b55bf51.png.html?

So are we really arguing collateral damage here because if so, Nappa is more powerful than the entire DCNU.

Originally posted by carver9
Akira just had a habit of displaying DBZ characters fighting speeds at a better rate than their flight speed. Example...Frieza death beam was so fast that non of the Z fighters was able to see it (i honestly think that attack was FTL) but Vegeta was able to see and respond to the attack. Goku was able to effortlessly slap these same attacks out of the air with minimum difficulty (and with one hand) but their flight speed was no where near as fast.

No matter how fast Roshi blast made it to the moon, any Z fighter would be able to react to it. Don't you agree? That has nothing to do with a comparison in this combat/travel speed argument. All that says is that Goku can react to something faster than Vegeta can react.. nothing to do with this argument.

I can even see by the first sentence that you're deviating from what j posted. I'm asking you why it makes sense that Goku can fly around hundreds of feet, which is his actual combat area, literally millions (more zeros from what I see people claim) of times faster then when he flies any distance more than that.

Originally posted by BloodRain
That has nothing to do with a comparison in this combat/travel speed argument. All that says is that Goku can react to something faster than Vegeta can react.. nothing to do with this argument.

I can even see by the first sentence that you're deviating from what j posted. I'm asking you why it makes sense that Goku can fly around hundreds of feet, which is his actual combat area, literally millions (more zeros from what I see people claim) of times faster then when he flies any distance more than that.

Because his short bursts of speed requires less energy than his travel speed and as stated before the proof is there that his combat speed is>>>> flight speed. Piccolo on his best day with a power level of 350 couldn't dream of hitting Saiyan Saga Goku with a blast without Goku letting him and Piccolo has shot a blast that made it to the moon instantly. That's reflexes. When it comes to actually keeping up with said blast via flight. Goku flying beside it...seeing if he can beat that blast to the moon...I have no way of proving that he can or cant.

Couple things.

Piccolo did not use the Special Beam Cannon he used on Raditz to destroy the moon. It's a visibly different attack.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuaqRVvm6tI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSJ-Z1BXMQc

The moon in the BD world is impossibly weak, as Master Roshi with a PL of around 140-180 (28-36 farmers) was able to bust it. Unless you think the power of 28-36 farmers (ep 1 DBZ) can obliterate a normal moon.

Originally posted by carver9
I'm asking you if he could react to the blast.

Yeah, he obviously can react to the blast. It's a slow attack.

Originally posted by carver9
Majority of the people I brought up have been dropped by far less "on Average". Example...Thor has died twice by a blast that didn't do anything to the planet or the area they were in. Hell, Thor got killed from a bullet to the head.

Thanos has been dropped twice by a blast resembling a Nuke.

It was stated not to long ago that a planetary blast could kill Galactus and Superman just stated that there is only one being in the entire Universe that has the power to destroy a freaking planet.

But have they taken WORSE before? That's what I'm asking.

Originally posted by carver9
http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/carver9/media/Screenshot_2014-05-27-20-58-27_zps2b55bf51.png.html?

So are we really arguing collateral damage here because if so, Nappa is more powerful than the entire DCNU.

Like I said, you can't compare a blast to a punch. Two different types of attacks.

Also, none of this changes the fact that neither Goku or Vegeta's blast actually destroyed Earth.

Originally posted by Robtard
Couple things.

Piccolo did not use the Special Beam Cannon he used on Raditz to destroy the moon. It's a visibly different attack.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuaqRVvm6tI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSJ-Z1BXMQc

The moon in the BD world is impossibly weak, as Master Roshi with a PL of around 140-180 (28-36 farmers) was able to bust it. Unless you think the power of 28-36 farmers (ep 1 DBZ) can obliterate a normal moon.

To be fair, pretty sure the Roshi feat is an outlier as nothing of that level is replicated until the Saiyan Saga

And, well, power levels are bullshit

Originally posted by carver9
Because his short bursts of speed requires less energy than his travel speed and as stated before the proof is there that his combat speed is>>>> flight speed. Piccolo on his best day with a power level of 350 couldn't dream of hitting Saiyan Saga Goku with a blast without Goku letting him and Piccolo has shot a blast that made it to the moon instantly. That's reflexes. When it comes to actually keeping up with said blast via flight. Goku flying beside it...seeing if he can beat that blast to the moon...I have no way of proving that he can or cant.
Now explain everything you left out.

Why does it happen only over a couple hundred feet, and why is a couple hundred foot 'combat area' when it's so large, but longer than that must be different?

Why is the speed so drastic. Remember, you're claiming his combat flight speed is at /least/ Mach 1,000,000 when travel flight speed is only Mach 1,000.


Now, I've disregarded your 'takes too much ki' point. Reason being that this is a character who has the ki to fire off planet busters, while doing 'ftl combat speed' for an hour.. but flying at full speed (when he really need a to) for only a couple seconds takes too much? Only reason that could makes sense is if they choose not to.

Well there's also if for some reason it takes too much ki to move that fast for a few seconds.....

...which is countered by the fact that the 'combat speed flight' can last a minute or longer, as proven in fights where they appear invisible to all but the highly trained. That's proof that they can keep up this speed constantly for a good while.

So explain.

Originally posted by Robtard
Couple things.

Piccolo did not use the Special Beam Cannon he used on Raditz to destroy the moon. It's a visibly different attack.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuaqRVvm6tI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSJ-Z1BXMQc

The moon in the BD world is impossibly weak, as Master Roshi with a PL of around 140-180 (28-36 farmers) was able to bust it. Unless you think the power of 28-36 farmers (ep 1 DBZ) can obliterate a normal moon.

What are you talking about? When did i say anything about the Special Beam canon (which is more powerful than the moon busting attack).

http://a.mpcdn.net/manga/p/280/52719/4.jpg

http://a.mpcdn.net/manga/p/280/52732/10.jpg

Originally posted by BloodRain
Now explain everything you left out.

Why does it happen only over a couple hundred feet, and why is a couple hundred foot 'combat area' when it's so large, but longer than that must be different?

Why is the speed so drastic. Remember, you're claiming his combat flight speed is at /least/ Mach 1,000,000 when travel flight speed is only Mach 1,000.


Now, I've disregarded your 'takes too much ki' point. Reason being that this is a character who has the ki to fire off planet busters, while doing 'ftl combat speed' for an hour.. but flying at full speed (when he really need a to) for only a couple seconds takes too much? Only reason that could makes sense is if they choose not to.

Well there's also if for some reason it takes too much ki to move that fast for a few seconds.....

...which is countered by the fact that the 'combat speed flight' can last a minute or longer, as proven in fights where they appear invisible to all but the highly trained. That's proof that they can keep up this speed constantly for a good while.

So explain.

I guess the answer to your question is plot and you are looking to far into things that isn't real and obviously didn't take much thought. Akira didn't sit down and say...well, since Goku combat this fast, let me have him make it to point A in less than a second. I'm pretty sure he thought more on the plot side which is the reason DBZ characters are able to slap blasts out if the air that can make it out of orbit in less time it would take to blink your eye...and I'm talking about the earlier parts of DBZ.

But your question is like me asking "since Superman can fly FTL in space, why did he have such a hard time catching these bullets"? Plot.

http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/carver9/media/3033915-1223138127-super_zpsb64c3680.jpg.html
http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/carver9/media/3033926-3112536032-super_zps0471684b.jpg.html

Like I've stated before and I am going to keep saying until it digs deep into your skull...it's obvious DBZ characters combat speed is greater than their flight speed.

Originally posted by StealthRanger
To be fair, pretty sure the Roshi feat is an outlier as nothing of that level is replicated until the Saiyan Saga

And, well, power levels are bullshit

Who failed to destroy a moon and again, are we really arguing collateral damage here? Is that the furthest Anime debaters Minds can process? Do you all not understand the difference between a person's power level vs collateral damage (not just DBZ). Where in DBZ was it stated that the more destructive your blast is means you are more powerful than a character that never displayed such ft? Do you honestly think First Form Frieza is more powerful than fat Buu because he destroyed a planet with his finger? Are you saying that Piccolo with a power level of 350 is more powerful than Nappa?

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Yeah, he obviously can react to the blast. It's a slow attack.



But have they taken WORSE before? That's what I'm asking.



Like I said, you can't compare a blast to a punch. Two different types of attacks.

Also, none of this changes the fact that neither Goku or Vegeta's blast actually destroyed Earth.

So we agree that he can react to a blast that can instantly make it to the moon? Good.

No...they have not DIED from worse and on average...the showings i brought up are more consistent.

Where in my scans did it say anything about a punch? You all are the ones that debate using collateral damage. With that said, per Superman's on admission, no one in the entire Universe can destroy a planet minus ONE PERSON which means, using your (don't even want to say it) way of debating, Saiyan Saga Vegeta is more powerful than anyone in the Universe of DCNU if we are basing it off of collateral damage.

Why in the world would it destroy Earth when Goku PREVENTED IT FROM HAPPENING? Akira outright states in the story that Vegeta blast would have destroyed earth. If you are going to sit here and lowball and wine AND disregard everything involving DBZ, then, do not reply to my posts. Fond someone else to discuss this topic with. We understand that a group of you want to put a cap on these characters but disregarding fts and denying showings is a big sign of hypocrisy.

Originally posted by carver9
I guess the answer to your question is plot and you are looking to far into things that isn't real and obviously didn't take much thought. Akira didn't sit down and say...well, since Goku combat this fast, let me have him make it to point A in less than a second. I'm pretty sure he thought more on the plot side which is the reason DBZ characters are able to slap blasts out if the air that can make it out of orbit in less time it would take to blink your eye...and I'm talking about the earlier parts of DBZ.

But your question is like me asking "since Superman can fly FTL in space, why did he have such a hard time catching these bullets"? Plot.

http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/carver9/media/3033915-1223138127-super_zpsb64c3680.jpg.html
http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/carver9/media/3033926-3112536032-super_zps0471684b.jpg.html

Like I've stated before and I am going to keep saying until it digs deep into your skull...it's obvious DBZ characters combat speed is greater than their flight speed.
That's your evidence?

Your own opinion is your evidence?

To reiterate, you believe it's obvious so that must mean it's a canon written fact.. and when it comes to a counter-response all you have is a cop-out basically saying "I dunno, guess he didn't think about it? But he definitely thought about what I'm backing. I totally see it". Not gonna fly. That 'author is lazy' shit only works when minor details are left out, not to cover up the entire argument.

Do you have legit proof? Or do you have providable evidence as to why the guy with planet busting ki who can zip around a couple hundred feet for a few minuites non-stop.. at MFTL speeds.. cannot do the same thing but in a straight line.. as that would waste ki..?

Originally posted by BloodRain
That's your evidence?

Your own opinion is your evidence?

To reiterate, you believe it's obvious so that must mean it's a canon written fact.. and when it comes to a counter-response all you have is a cop-out basically saying "I dunno, guess he didn't think about it? But he definitely thought about what I'm backing. I totally see it". Not gonna fly. That 'author is lazy' shit only works when minor details are left out, not to cover up the entire argument.

Do you have legit proof? Or do you have providable evidence as to why the guy with planet busting ki who can zip around a couple hundred feet for a few minuites non-stop.. at MFTL speeds.. cannot do the same thing but in a straight line.. as that would waste ki..?

So you can show me DBZ characters long distance flying around at invisible speeds? Scan.

First off, you don't prove your case by telling the opposition to prove another case. Prove your own case that was asked.

Second, that post can be covered, with an admitted glancing thought, by fast things being easier to track the more they move. Not to mention, what counts as long distance? Generally melee distance is 10ft, mid range is within 50ft, and above that you get long range. Seeing as DB combat areas are easily over 100ft...

Third, I can think of two scans from the same place: Final Freeza after the death beam, following with Goku's approach.



Do me a favour and don't focus on the third and ignore the first two.

Originally posted by BloodRain
First off, you don't prove your case by telling the opposition to prove another case. Prove your own case that was asked.

Second, that post can be covered, with an admitted glancing thought, by fast things being easier to track the more they move. Not to mention, what counts as long distance? Generally melee distance is 10ft, mid range is within 50ft, and above that you get long range. Seeing as DB combat areas are easily over 100ft...

Third, I can think of two scans from the same place: Final Freeza after the death beam, following with Goku's approach.



Do me a favour and don't focus on the third and ignore the first two.

I asked for proof first and you came with questions. I'm asking you to prove that final tournament Goku from regular Dragonball can fly faster than a bullet...something that his reflexes can catch in his sleep. Scans.

:l

The whole point of this was me asking you to prove the combat speed. Page 4, the initial question is posed.

I will proceed to give a shit about your requests when you finally get round to answering mine.

To single it out, focus on this;
"Not to mention, what counts as long distance? Generally melee distance is 10ft, mid range is within 50ft, and above that you get long range. Seeing as DB combat areas are easily over 100ft..."

Originally posted by BloodRain
:l

The whole point of this was me asking you to prove the combat speed. Page 4, the initial question is posed.

I will proceed to give a shit about your requests when you finally get round to answering mine.

To single it out, focus on this;
"Not to mention, what counts as long distance? Generally melee distance is 10ft, mid range is within 50ft, and above that you get long range. Seeing as DB combat areas are easily over 100ft..."

You'll have to give me an example first. What scene can I use to determine why his flight speed isn't equal to his combat speed?

I'm not doing your work for you.

Burden of proof. You're the one that backs this argument, so in order foe me to provide counter-evidence you'll need to actually offer up evidence.

Not a theory based on your opinions of events. Believe me you don't want to open that door.. Can you back up your argument now?

Originally posted by BloodRain
I'm not doing your work for you.

Burden of proof. You're the one that backs this argument, so in order foe me to provide counter-evidence you'll need to actually offer up evidence.

Not a theory based on your opinions of events. Believe me you don't want to open that door.. Can you back up your argument now?

I disagree but I will give you an example. Goku flew through snake way...heading back home to take on Nappa, etc and he was visible the entire time. When he arrived and fought Nappa, Goku was nearly impossible to detect by Krillin and Gohan (and Nappa at some point as well). Now show me Goku flying so fast that he is invisible to the necked eye.

:l what was that?

Not that that gave much, with bonus hilerity in asking me to show scans without showing anything yourself, it gets insta-matched by Nimbus doing to those three 'exactly' what you amounts to proof of Goku's combat speed..

..unless the flying cloud does have combat speed.

Originally posted by carver9
So we agree that he can react to a blast that can instantly make it to the moon? Good.

The reason he can react to it is because the attack is slow...so no, it's not instant.

Originally posted by carver9
No...they have not DIED from worse and on average...the showings i brought up are more consistent.

I didn't say anything about being killed. I asked have they TAKEN anything worse? It doesn't matter how consistent it is.

Originally posted by carver9
Where in my scans did it say anything about a punch? You all are the ones that debate using collateral damage. With that said, per Superman's on admission, no one in the entire Universe can destroy a planet minus ONE PERSON which means, using your (don't even want to say it) way of debating, Saiyan Saga Vegeta is more powerful than anyone in the Universe of DCNU if we are basing it off of collateral damage.

You mentioned Superman getting hit by a punch and posted one of the scans showing that. I don't think anybody was ever comparing a punch to a blast in the first place.

Originally posted by carver9
Why in the world would it destroy Earth when Goku PREVENTED IT FROM HAPPENING? Akira outright states in the story that Vegeta blast would have destroyed earth. If you are going to sit here and lowball and wine AND disregard everything involving DBZ, then, do not reply to my posts. Fond someone else to discuss this topic with. We understand that a group of you want to put a cap on these characters but disregarding fts and denying showings is a big sign of hypocrisy.

There is no showings of this. You admitted this yourself that it was stated. The point I'm trying to make is we don't know how it would destroy the Earth. It could take a long time or heck, he probably didn't even really have enough power to do it. The damage it does to a planet or the moon could be different from how it damages people, that doesn't suddenly proved they can take planet or moon busting attacks.

Originally posted by BloodRain
:l what was that?

Not that that gave much, with bonus hilerity in asking me to show scans without showing anything yourself, it gets insta-matched by Nimbus doing to those three 'exactly' what you amounts to proof of Goku's combat speed..

..unless the flying cloud does have combat speed.

When did Nimbus fly at invisible speeds?

Originally posted by carver9
What are you talking about? When did i say anything about the Special Beam canon (which is more powerful than the moon busting attack).

http://a.mpcdn.net/manga/p/280/52719/4.jpg

http://a.mpcdn.net/manga/p/280/52732/10.jpg

I was under the impression it was anime Piccolo here, hence by posting links to the anime. Guess it's both.

DBZ moon is still made of sauce that is weak.

Originally posted by Robtard
I was under the impression it was anime Piccolo here, hence by posting links to the anime. Guess it's both.

DBZ moon is still made of sauce that is weak.

Prove that DBZ moon is made out of sauce that is weak (whatever that means).

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
The reason he can react to it is because the attack is slow...so no, it's not instant.



I didn't say anything about being killed. I asked have they TAKEN anything worse? It doesn't matter how consistent it is.



You mentioned Superman getting hit by a punch and posted one of the scans showing that. I don't think anybody was ever comparing a punch to a blast in the first place.



There is no showings of this. You admitted this yourself that it was stated. The point I'm trying to make is we don't know how it would destroy the Earth. It could take a long time or heck, he probably didn't even really have enough power to do it. The damage it does to a planet or the moon could be different from how it damages people, that doesn't suddenly proved they can take planet or moon busting attacks.

So he can react to a blast that made it to the moon instantly (as shown per my scan above)? Why is it slow? Prove that the attack is slow.

WTF? It does have something to do with consistency because there is a such thing as high showings you know. Hulk was once choked out by a snake...does that mean that we base Hulks durability off of that showing? Thor got killed by a bullet. Do we use that showing as his norm or do we go by his CONSISTENCY of tanking bullets? You're not good at this...no insult at all but it's kind of difficult debating against someone that make their own rules and see things different.

The post you responded to didn't have a thing to do with Superman withstanding a punch. I posted Superman saying "in DC universe only ONE PERSON can destroy a planet". It didn't say if it was physical or not. It was an open comment. I then say since YOU base your argument clearly on collateral damage...that means that someone like First form Frieza is more powerful than anyone in the entirety of DC universe. Riiiiiiiiggghhht?

It was stated to be a planet buster. That's clearly what Akira intentions was. Then...since we are using Anime here...that back my case even further since in the ANIME Vegeta destroyed a planet with 2 fingers. With that said, we are done here. Vegeta in the Manga during the Saiyan Saga was a planet buster but I no longer need to argue this since the Anime here is canon. Goku deflected a planet buster with his own planet buster and hit Vegeta with it (and he tanked it).

it did not do so 'instantly' if it did so instantly it would cross the universe instantly, since it's speed would be infinite. It isn't.

Originally posted by carver9
So he can react to a blast that made it to the moon instantly (as shown per my scan above)? Why is it slow? Prove that the attack is slow.

WTF? It does have something to do with consistency because there is a such thing as high showings you know. Hulk was once choked out by a snake...does that mean that we base Hulks durability off of that showing? Thor got killed by a bullet. Do we use that showing as his norm or do we go by his CONSISTENCY of tanking bullets? You're not good at this...no insult at all but it's kind of difficult debating against someone that make their own rules and see things different.

The post you responded to didn't have a thing to do with Superman withstanding a punch. I posted Superman saying "in DC universe only ONE PERSON can destroy a planet". It didn't say if it was physical or not. It was an open comment. I then say since YOU base your argument clearly on collateral damage...that means that someone like First form Frieza is more powerful than anyone in the entirety of DC universe. Riiiiiiiiggghhht?

It was stated to be a planet buster. That's clearly what Akira intentions was. Then...since we are using Anime here...that back my case even further since in the ANIME Vegeta destroyed a planet with 2 fingers. With that said, we are done here. Vegeta in the Manga during the Saiyan Saga was a planet buster but I no longer need to argue this since the Anime here is canon. Goku deflected a planet buster with his own planet buster and hit Vegeta with it (and he tanked it).

1. Except the scan didn't show that it was instant. That's just something you're claiming.

2. You know, instead of trying to use the consistency excuse to work in your favor, why not just go by the worst punishment they took? And even if you do want to go by consistency, then you'd have to admit that DBZ characters can't take moon/planet-busting attacks, as they've never done it consistently. Of course, it's not like there was any proof that the blast Piccolo hit Raditz with was moon-busting anyway and yet, you STILL like to claim it is.

3. Okay, which scan are you referring to? Because I must have overlooked it.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
1. Except the scan didn't show that it was instant. That's just something you're claiming.

2. You know, instead of trying to use the consistency excuse to work in your favor, why not just go by the worst punishment they took? And even if you do want to go by consistency, then you'd have to admit that DBZ characters can't take moon/planet-busting attacks, as they've never done it consistently. Of course, it's not like there was any proof that the blast Piccolo hit Raditz with was moon-busting anyway and yet, you STILL like to claim it is.

3. Okay, which scan are you referring to? Because I must have overlooked it.

It was fast enough to make it to the moon as soon as Piccolo raised his hand. Instantly was a metaphor bust it sure as hell wasn't close to slow unless you can prove otherwise.

So you admit that Master Roshi and Piccolo with a power level of 350 can kill Super Saiyan Goku? And Piccolo had no reason to hold back during his attack since he was trying to kill Raditz.

This is the scan I am talking about...

http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/carver9/media/Screenshot_2014-05-27-20-58-27_zps2b55bf51.png.html?

So since collateral damage mean power per Bro Smash, with that said per Superman's admission...First form Frieza is more powerful than everybody in DC Universe, correct?

Originally posted by carver9
It was fast enough to make it to the moon as soon as Piccolo raised his hand. Instantly was a metaphor bust it sure as hell wasn't close to slow unless you can prove otherwise.

So you admit that Master Roshi and Piccolo with a power level of 350 can kill Super Saiyan Goku and Piccolo had no reason to hold back during his attack since he was trying to kill Raditz.

This is the scan I am talking about...

http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/carver9/media/Screenshot_2014-05-27-20-58-27_zps2b55bf51.png.html?

So since collateral damage mean power per Bro Smash, with that said per Superman's admission...First form Frieza is more powerful than everybody in DC Universe, correct?

1. You still didn't even prove how fast it was.

2. According to your consistency argument, yeah, you'd have to admit that too. And you know as well as I do that the characters aren't dumb enough to waste up all of their energy in one go. After all, Piccolo's power didn't completely decrease after that blast so yeah, that means he did hold back.

3. Wait, hold on, it says "there's only one being in this universe that has the power to destroy a world" so how do you know he meant that in the same way you think he meant it?

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
1. You still didn't even prove how fast it was.

2. According to your consistency argument, yeah, you'd have to admit that too. And you know as well as I do that the characters aren't dumb enough to waste up all of their energy in one go. After all, Piccolo's power didn't completely decrease after that blast so yeah, that means he did hold back.

3. Wait, hold on, it says "there's only one being in this universe that has the power to destroy a world" so how do you know he meant that in the same way you think he meant it?

The blast made it to the moon as soon as he raised his hands...that's pretty got darn fast. Some people say it's a light speed showing. Depends on how you look at it.

I don't have to admit ANYTHING since it is common sense that Roshi nor Piccolo during that era couldn't hurt a freaking Super Saiyan...let alone Saiyan saga Goku. Do you honestly think Roshi blast is more powerful than every attack Frieza hit Goku with? What about Cell? Do you think Roshi attack is more powerful than every attack Cell hit Goku with? What about Kid Buu? Do you think Roshi attack is more powerful than every attack Kid buu hit Goku with? Common freaking sense.

Lol...Piccolo effortlessly destroyed the moon and he sure as hell wasn't close to being exhausted either and was in no shock when he destroyed it with a casual attack. He was shocked as hell when Raditz stood there and withstood his attack without flinching which tells us what (use that brain of yours)?

My scan states (from Superman own mouth) that only "one being in the ENTIRE UNIVERSE can destroy a planet" which means that First form Frieza is more powerful than the entirety of DCNU minus one being. Do you not understand how this makes DCU look compared to DBZ characters? Terrible if we base things off of collateral damage. Frieza destroyed a planet with two fingers but we have the entirety of DC Universe not even comparing to that type of power minus Darkseid. So again, do we agree that First Form Frieza index finger is more powerful than everyone in that universe?

Originally posted by carver9
The blast made it to the moon as soon as he raised his hands...that's pretty got darn fast. Some people say it's a light speed showing. Depends on how you look at it.

I don't have to admit ANYTHING since it is common sense that Roshi nor Piccolo during that era couldn't hurt a freaking Super Saiyan...let alone Saiyan saga Goku. Do you honestly think Roshi blast is more powerful than every attack Frieza hit Goku with? What about Cell? Do you think Roshi attack is more powerful than every attack Cell hit Goku with? What about Kid Buu? Do you think Roshi attack is more powerful than every attack Kid buu hit Goku with? Common freaking sense.

Lol...Piccolo effortlessly destroyed the moon and he sure as hell wasn't close to being exhausted either and was in no shock when he destroyed it with a casual attack. He was shocked as hell when Raditz stood there and withstood his attack without flinching which tells us what (use that brain of yours)?

My scan states (from Superman own mouth) that only "one being in the ENTIRE UNIVERSE can destroy a planet" which means that First form Frieza is more powerful than the entirety of DCNU minus one being. Do you not understand how this makes DCU look compared to DBZ characters? Terrible if we base things off of collateral damage. Frieza destroyed a planet with two fingers but we have the entirety of DC Universe not even comparing to that type of power minus Darkseid. So again, do we agree that First Form Frieza index finger is more powerful than everyone in that universe?


1. So you don't actually know how fast it was? Just that it looks really fast? That's not saying much, carver.

2. It's not about what I think, I'm just going by your "consistency" argument. The characters have never consistently taken a moon or planet busting attack while at the same time, they're always getting hurt or killed by far less, thus, it's been consistently shown that it doesn't take moon or planet busting attacks to kill them. Take it however you want but it all comes from YOUR argument.

3. Why in the world would Piccolo be shocked at destroying the moon when that was the reason for the blast in the first place? And also, it wasn't like Piccolo was fighting immediately after destroying the moon so you can't say he didn't use up a great deal of his power. Though still, it doesn't matter. He didn't hit Raditz with a moon busting attack and you know it.

4. None of that answered the question. Again, how you do know he meant it the way you think he meant it?

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
1. So you don't actually know how fast it was? Just that it looks really fast? That's not saying much, carver.

2. It's not about what I think, I'm just going by your "consistency" argument. The characters have never consistently taken a moon or planet busting attack while at the same time, they're always getting hurt or killed by far less, thus, it's been consistently shown that it doesn't take moon or planet busting attacks to kill them. Take it however you want but it all comes from YOUR argument.

3. Why in the world would Piccolo be shocked at destroying the moon when that was the reason for the blast in the first place? And also, it wasn't like Piccolo was fighting immediately after destroying the moon so you can't say he didn't use up a great deal of his power. Though still, it doesn't matter. He didn't hit Raditz with a moon busting attack and you know it.

4. None of that answered the question. Again, how you do know he meant it the way you think he meant it?

I don't need a figure to know that Piccolo raised his hand and the blast was there as soon as he unleashed the attack. Seem close to if not at light speed to me and the crazy thing about it is, Goku at his near weakest could react to it.


2. A moon or a planet doesn't have to blow up for it to be greater than a moon buster. I feel safe at saying (unless I am a retard to think otherwise and no, I'm not calling you that) that every attack Frieza, Cell, and Buu unleashed on Goku during the time they were trying to kill him is greater than anything Piccolo (with a power level of 350) and Roshi could dream about conjuring and this is me using common sense. I'm not the one that debate using collateral damage as my argument so don't try to twist that nonsense on me and yes...i agree with you, they do get hurt by a blast that doesn't blow up a planet every time it is shot but so does Galactus, Silver Surfer (he nearly died from a meteorite that had enough power to level a building), Eternity...etc... do you not understand how retarded this argument is? You are literally saying that every powerful blast that is used in any showing is an indication of someone's durability. This leads back to the people I've named that got killed by blasts that didn't even level a building and I am talking about abstracts and Cosmic beings. With that said, is Nappa finger up blast that destroyed a city...is it more powerful than Super Saiyan 3 Goku blast that disintegrated kid Buu (vet did nothing to the landscape...Especially the damage Nappa blast did).

Why would Piccolo be shocked at Raditz tanking his blast if it wasn't as great if not greater than his RANDOM blast that he shot at the moon? Just take the time to think for a bit Mr. Collateral damage. And yes...He hit Raditz with either a moon busting (since his moon busting attack was casual) or a blast far greater since he was in awe that Raditz tanked it (and the second time he attacked Raditz with a blast he made sure he put more power into it instead of using anything other than what he used before...the special Beam canon).

Again, use your brain. It's plain and clear what Superman said. Maybe if I capitalize if for you. Here...read. THERE IS ONLY ONE PERSON IN THE UNIVERSE THAT HAS THE POWER TO DESTROY A PLANET. What else could that mean? Tell me another way you can interpret this because this seems cut and dry to me...unlesssssssss, you are trying to avoid something. So again, is Frieza more powerful than everyone in DCU due to collateral damage?

Originally posted by carver9
I don't need a figure to know that Piccolo raised his hand and the blast was there as soon as he unleashed the attack. Seem close to if not at light speed to me and the crazy thing about it is, Goku at his near weakest could react to it.


2. A moon or a planet doesn't have to blow up for it to be greater than a moon buster. I feel safe at saying (unless I am a retard to think otherwise and no, I'm not calling you that) that every attack Frieza, Cell, and Buu unleashed on Goku during the time they were trying to kill him is greater than anything Piccolo (with a power level of 350) and Roshi could dream about conjuring and this is me using common sense. I'm not the one that debate using collateral damage as my argument so don't try to twist that nonsense on me and yes...i agree with you, they do get hurt by a blast that doesn't blow up a planet every time it is shot but so does Galactus, Silver Surfer (he nearly died from a meteorite that had enough power to level a building), Eternity...etc... do you not understand how retarded this argument is? You are literally saying that every powerful blast that is used in any showing is an indication of someone's durability. This leads back to the people I've named that got killed by blasts that didn't even level a building and I am talking about abstracts and Cosmic beings. With that said, is Nappa finger up blast that destroyed a city...is it more powerful than Super Saiyan 3 Goku blast that disintegrated kid Buu (vet did nothing to the landscape...Especially the damage Nappa blast did).

Why would Piccolo be shocked at Raditz tanking his blast if it wasn't as great if not greater than his RANDOM blast that he shot at the moon? Just take the time to think for a bit Mr. Collateral damage. And yes...He hit Raditz with either a moon busting (since his moon busting attack was casual) or a blast far greater since he was in awe that Raditz tanked it (and the second time he attacked Raditz with a blast he made sure he put more power into it instead of using anything other than what he used before...the special Beam canon).

Again, use your brain. It's plain and clear what Superman said. Maybe if I capitalize if for you. Here...read. THERE IS ONLY ONE PERSON IN THE UNIVERSE THAT HAS THE POWER TO DESTROY A PLANET. What else could that mean? Tell me another way you can interpret this because this seems cut and dry to me...unlesssssssss, you are trying to avoid something. So again, is Frieza more powerful than everyone in DCU due to collateral damage?

1. I'm pretty sure a lot of them would react to it if they see it coming far away.

2. You see, the problem is you're using two different ways of arguing to make your point. You can't use the "common sense" excuse for DBZ and the "consistent" excuse for Marvel or DC. Again, if you want to use the "consistency", then you'd have to admit that the DBZ characters that they've consistently been hurt by less than planet/moonbusting attacks. If you want to use the "common sense" argument, then you'd have to admit that the DC/Marvel characters...wait, scratch that, you got PROOF that they've taken far worse than what you keep showing and that's a lot more clear than the "common sense" excuse you keep using for DBZ characters.

3. You're acting like it's unusual for somebody to be shocked that somebody else didn't even flinch at blast they intended to kill (or at least seriously hurt) them with. Seriously, think about; would you be shocked if you intended for something to happen and it didn't work even a little bit?

So it doesn't in anyway indicated that he used all of his power or that he used a moon-busting attack. Like I said, it only kicked up dust and it was only directed at one person, not a whole moon.

4. He said world, not planet. Stop lying. And there's many ways to destroy the world; he could mean kill things on it, ruling it (after all, he is a ruler), or many different things. Destroying a world doesn't just mean "blowing up a planet". Heck, he probably isn't just referring to Earth anyway. Either way, this just shows that even YOU don't seem to truly know what he meant.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
1. I'm pretty sure a lot of them would react to it if they see it coming far away.

2. You see, the problem is you're using two different ways of arguing to make your point. You can't use the "common sense" excuse for DBZ and the "consistent" excuse for Marvel or DC. Again, if you want to use the "consistency", then you'd have to admit that the DBZ characters that they've consistently been hurt by less than planet/moonbusting attacks. If you want to use the "common sense" argument, then you'd have to admit that the DC/Marvel characters...wait, scratch that, you got PROOF that they've taken far worse than what you keep showing and that's a lot more clear than the "common sense" excuse you keep using for DBZ characters.

3. You're acting like it's unusual for somebody to be shocked that somebody else didn't even flinch at blast they intended to kill (or at least seriously hurt) them with. Seriously, think about; would you be shocked if you intended for something to happen and it didn't work even a little bit?

So it doesn't in anyway indicated that he used all of his power or that he used a moon-busting attack. Like I said, it only kicked up dust and it was only directed at one person, not a whole moon.

4. He said world, not planet. Stop lying. And there's many ways to destroy the world; he could mean kill things on it, ruling it (after all, he is a ruler), or many different things. Destroying a world doesn't just mean "blowing up a planet". Heck, he probably isn't just referring to Earth anyway. Either way, this just shows that even YOU don't seem to truly know what he meant.

Doesn't have to be far away. It can be close up and they would still react to it. Just the way DBZ is my friend.

What in the world are you talking about? I think DBZ characters can consistently take moon busting attacks since I also believe that Goku durability is greater than Master Roshi power output. Cell blasts>>>>anything Roshi could do. Then when it comes to consistency, moon busting and planet busting is right there since when attempted they never failed...so again, yes, imo along with 90% of the people that knows anything about DBZ, I don't think Roshi could kill Goku. Like I've stated...this subject requires you to think. Just THINK.

Not that it's unusual, the unusual thing is that you actually believe THAT version of Piccolo would hold back anything when overall he giggled at the fact of killing both Goku and Raditz with a powerful blast (more powerful than his moon busting). But again, you are basing Raditz tanking said attack off of collateral damage when overall it's the same attack. I know one thing, that attack that Raditz tanked is more powerful than Roshi moon busting attack since that version of Piccolo is far above Roshi (common sense). You avoided my question. Is Roshi Moon busting attack more powerful than anything Cell hit Goku with? Another thing, Frieza body endured a planets explosion but yet he was sliced to shreds by Trunks sword. Goku blocked that same sword with one finger and Trunk grabbed that same sword that was swung at him with one hand. What does that tell us?

4. Lol...this is the most retarded argument i have heard of in my life. It all boils down to NO ONE IN DCNU HAVE THE POWER TO DESTROY A WORLD/PLANET UNDER THEIR OWN POWER EXCEPT ONE PERSON. We didn't get an indication on if it was physical or a blast...it said no one could do it which means that both should apply unless stated otherwise. Superman comment is open ended. I can't believe I have to explain this. Now again, since we are basing things off of collateral damage First form Frieza index fingef is more powerful than everyone in DCNU, correct?

Originally posted by carver9
When did Nimbus fly at invisible speeds? When it blitzed in and saved Gohan literally right under Nappa's foot. Your one difference is that travel speed was visible while combat speed was not, even though a flying cloud does the very same thing.

Originally posted by BloodRain
When it blitzed in and saved Gohan literally right under Nappa's foot. Your one difference is that travel speed was visible while combat speed was not, even though a flying cloud does the very same thing.

Isn't the same thing. Not even close to being the same thing since we didn't see it flying...the only thing we see is Nappa foot and Gohan gone. I asked you for something flying...as in in the air flying...not us seeing a foot and a short a panel with Gohan gone. Scans of a Z fighter flying and completely invisible to the necked eye (super human necked eye). You'll never find it.

Originally posted by carver9
Doesn't have to be far away. It can be close up and they would still react to it. Just the way DBZ is my friend.

What in the world are you talking about? I think DBZ characters can consistently take moon busting attacks since I also believe that Goku durability is greater than Master Roshi power output. Cell blasts>>>>anything Roshi could do. Then when it comes to consistency, moon busting and planet busting is right there since when attempted they never failed...so again, yes, imo along with 90% of the people that knows anything about DBZ, I don't think Roshi could kill Goku. Like I've stated...this subject requires you to think. Just THINK.

Not that it's unusual, the unusual thing is that you actually believe THAT version of Piccolo would hold back anything when overall he giggled at the fact of killing both Goku and Raditz with a powerful blast (more powerful than his moon busting). But again, you are basing Raditz tanking said attack off of collateral damage when overall it's the same attack. I know one thing, that attack that Raditz tanked is more powerful than Roshi moon busting attack since that version of Piccolo is far above Roshi (common sense). You avoided my question. Is Roshi Moon busting attack more powerful than anything Cell hit Goku with? Another thing, Frieza body endured a planets explosion but yet he was sliced to shreds by Trunks sword. Goku blocked that same sword with one finger and Trunk grabbed that same sword that was swung at him with one hand. What does that tell us?

4. Lol...this is the most retarded argument i have heard of in my life. It all boils down to NO ONE IN DCNU HAVE THE POWER TO DESTROY A WORLD/PLANET UNDER THEIR OWN POWER EXCEPT ONE PERSON. We didn't get an indication on if it was physical or a blast...it said no one could do it which means that both should apply unless stated otherwise. Superman comment is open ended. I can't believe I have to explain this. Now again, since we are basing things off of collateral damage First form Frieza index fingef is more powerful than everyone in DCNU, correct?

1. No, it really isn't. There's no way they'd dodge that up close.

2. Again, you're making assumptions. Goku has never actually taken moon-busting or planet-busting attacks. Not once has it ever been stated he could so it's really silly to claim it's consistent when there was never any actual evidence in the first place.

3. You just admitted that the blast Piccolo hit Goku and Raditz with was more powerful than the one he first hit Raditz with so yeah, that also shows that he was holding back. And again, that blast clearly wasn't moon-busting. It was never stated to be and it would have done more than just kick up some dust. You want to talk about using common sense, THIS is the perfect time to use it. As for your question about Roshi (which I didn't "avoid" because I never saw it), to be honest, yes, because Cell wasn't using moon-busting attacks on Goku. And as for all of that other stuff about Freiza's body surviving and then getting sliced by Trunks, it doesn't really tell us anything, except Trunks's attack was more direct than the planet explosion.

4. You finally solved the whole problem; you don't know exactly how he meant it, because "destroying the world" could mean plenty of other things besides just blowing it up with a blast, so you can stop asking that question now because it's obviously irrelevant.

Originally posted by carver9
Isn't the same thing. Not even close to being the same thing since we didn't see it flying...the only thing we see is Nappa foot and Gohan gone. I asked you for something flying...as in in the air flying...not us seeing a foot and a short a panel with Gohan gone. Scans of a Z fighter flying and completely invisible to the necked eye (super human necked eye). You'll never find it. Wrong dear boy.

See, your single explanation and in-verse proof of combat speed amounts to this : "We can see their travel speed but we can't see their combat speed, this means in combat they move faster"

Now I explain to you how Nimbus does the exact thing, in that we can see it's movement speed but in that close quarters combat situation, both us the viewer and all around (maybe baring Vegeta) could see what happened.

So either you're saying Nimbus also follows this 'combat speed' or you'll need to find another example.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
1. No, it really isn't. There's no way they'd dodge that up close.

2. Again, you're making assumptions. Goku has never actually taken moon-busting or planet-busting attacks. Not once has it ever been stated he could so it's really silly to claim it's consistent when there was never any actual evidence in the first place.

3. You just admitted that the blast Piccolo hit Goku and Raditz with was more powerful than the one he first hit Raditz with so yeah, that also shows that he was holding back. And again, that blast clearly wasn't moon-busting. It was never stated to be and it would have done more than just kick up some dust. You want to talk about using common sense, THIS is the perfect time to use it. As for your question about Roshi (which I didn't "avoid" because I never saw it), to be honest, yes, because Cell wasn't using moon-busting attacks on Goku. And as for all of that other stuff about Freiza's body surviving and then getting sliced by Trunks, it doesn't really tell us anything, except Trunks's attack was more direct than the planet explosion.

4. You finally solved the whole problem; you don't know exactly how he meant it, because "destroying the world" could mean plenty of other things besides just blowing it up with a blast, so you can stop asking that question now because it's obviously irrelevant.

... If Frieza or Goku didn't want Piccolo with a power level of 350 to hit him with an attack that was already thrown...it would not happen. This has been shown throughout DBZ. Goku dodged all of Frieza's blast during his arrival and Frieza was shocked. Z fighters can detect Ki blast from weaker opponents AND react to it. Why am I having thus debate against you when you don't know what you are talking about?

Freiza tanked planet busting power and Goku is more durable than him as shown by his finger blocking of Trunks sword...the same sword that ripped Frieza in pieces. Stop making excuses for everything. The only thing you are doing is Nu uh.

I didn't admit anything. What I said was...Piccolo blast that he hit Raditz with is more powerful than Roshi moon busting attack. Just because a piece of the planet wasn't destroyed after said attack means nothing since DBZ shoots CONTROLLED KI which means that all of their blast isn't meant to explode upon impact.

Like I've stated...you don't know what you are talking about. If I had Martian Manhunter powers and I said "i don't have the power to destroy a building"...that tells me that if I blasted or punched, I don't have the power to destroy a building. It's opened ended. It's simple. It means that I don't have the power to generate said force to destroy something. Superman said that no one in the universe minus one person can destroy a planet. How old are you? Like foreal. Not trying to insult you but d***. You would make sense if Superman said "no one in the universe can destroy a planet with a blast/punch" but he clearly said no one has the power to destroy a world which means that if they blasted a planet...no one can destroy it except one person. Which means that if they punched it, no one can destroy a world except one person. Now again...since no one in DCU can destroy a world minus one person, is Frieza index finger more powerful than everyone in DCNU?

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
1. No, it really isn't. There's no way they'd dodge that up close.

2. Again, you're making assumptions. Goku has never actually taken moon-busting or planet-busting attacks. Not once has it ever been stated he could so it's really silly to claim it's consistent when there was never any actual evidence in the first place.

3. You just admitted that the blast Piccolo hit Goku and Raditz with was more powerful than the one he first hit Raditz with so yeah, that also shows that he was holding back. And again, that blast clearly wasn't moon-busting. It was never stated to be and it would have done more than just kick up some dust. You want to talk about using common sense, THIS is the perfect time to use it. As for your question about Roshi (which I didn't "avoid" because I never saw it), to be honest, yes, because Cell wasn't using moon-busting attacks on Goku. And as for all of that other stuff about Freiza's body surviving and then getting sliced by Trunks, it doesn't really tell us anything, except Trunks's attack was more direct than the planet explosion.

4. You finally solved the whole problem; you don't know exactly how he meant it, because "destroying the world" could mean plenty of other things besides just blowing it up with a blast, so you can stop asking that question now because it's obviously irrelevant.

... If Frieza or Goku didn't want Piccolo with a power level of 350 to hit him with an attack that was already thrown...it would not happen. This has been shown throughout DBZ. Goku dodged all of Frieza's blast during his arrival and Frieza was shocked. Z fighters can detect Ki blast from weaker opponents AND react to it. Why am I having thus debate against you when you don't know what you are talking about?

Freiza tanked planet busting power and Goku is more durable than him as shown by his finger blocking of Trunks sword...the same sword that ripped Frieza in pieces. Stop making excuses for everything. The only thing you are doing is Nu uh.

I didn't admit anything. What I said was...Piccolo blast that he hit Raditz with is more powerful than Roshi moon busting attack. Just because a piece of the planet wasn't destroyed after said attack means nothing since DBZ shoots CONTROLLED KI which means that all of their blast isn't meant to explode upon impact.

Like I've stated...you don't know what you are talking about. If I had Martian Manhunter powers and I said "i don't have the power to destroy a building"...that tells me that if I blasted or punched, I don't have the power to destroy a building. It's opened ended. It's simple. It means that I don't have the power to generate said force to destroy something. Superman said that no one in the universe minus one person can destroy a planet. How old are you? Like foreal. Not trying to insult you but d***. You would make sense if Superman said "no one in the universe can destroy a planet with a blast/punch" but he clearly said no one has the power to destroy a world which means that if they blasted a planet...no one can destroy it except one person. Which means that if they punched it, no one can destroy a world except one person. Now again...since no one in DCU can destroy a world minus one person, is Frieza index finger more powerful than everyone in DCNU?

Also ... Cell power level was in the billions whereas Master Roshi power level was 139. Cell can shoot a blast from his pinky toe and it would generate more power than Roshi blast. I can't believe you sat here and said that Roshi power output was greater than anything Cell hit Goku with. I'm literally about to give up replying to you.

Let me ask you a Lil something. If character A was hit by a bullet in the face and it wen clean through and killed this person while character B was hit in the same spot with the same bullet and the bullet bounced off...who is more durable?

Originally posted by carver9
... If Frieza or Goku didn't want Piccolo with a power level of 350 to hit him with an attack that was already thrown...it would not happen. This has been shown throughout DBZ. Goku dodged all of Frieza's blast during his arrival and Frieza was shocked. Z fighters can detect Ki blast from weaker opponents AND react to it. Why am I having thus debate against you when you don't know what you are talking about?

Freiza tanked planet busting power and Goku is more durable than him as shown by his finger blocking of Trunks sword...the same sword that ripped Frieza in pieces. Stop making excuses for everything. The only thing you are doing is Nu uh.

I didn't admit anything. What I said was...Piccolo blast that he hit Raditz with is more powerful than Roshi moon busting attack. Just because a piece of the planet wasn't destroyed after said attack means nothing since DBZ shoots CONTROLLED KI which means that all of their blast isn't meant to explode upon impact.

Like I've stated...you don't know what you are talking about. If I had Martian Manhunter powers and I said "i don't have the power to destroy a building"...that tells me that if I blasted or punched, I don't have the power to destroy a building. It's opened ended. It's simple. It means that I don't have the power to generate said force to destroy something. Superman said that no one in the universe minus one person can destroy a planet. How old are you? Like foreal. Not trying to insult you but d***. You would make sense if Superman said "no one in the universe can destroy a planet with a blast/punch" but he clearly said no one has the power to destroy a world which means that if they blasted a planet...no one can destroy it except one person. Which means that if they punched it, no one can destroy a world except one person. Now again...since no one in DCU can destroy a world minus one person, is Frieza index finger more powerful than everyone in DCNU?

Also ... Cell power level was in the billions whereas Master Roshi power level was 139. Cell can shoot a blast from his pinky toe and it would generate more power than Roshi blast. I can't believe you sat here and said that Roshi power output was greater than anything Cell hit Goku with. I'm literally about to give up replying to you.

Let me ask you a Lil something. If character A was hit by a bullet in the face and it wen clean through and killed this person while character B was hit in the same spot with the same bullet and the bullet bounced off...who is more durable?

1. I only remember Goku knocking the blasts away, not dodging them (unless you're referring to something else). And I never said they can't react and detect a weaker opponent's attacks. Perhaps we got different ideas of "up close" and "far away".

Frieza can't be that durable if large chunks of his body were blown away by that explosion. As even shown after being cut in half, Freiza can still be alive with missing body parts. The reason Trunks was able to slice him up was because it was a DIRECT hit. Heck, look at how Freiza was cut in half by his own disc, it went directly to him. Surely, you're not going to say that it can cut through a planet, are you?

2. Again, none of that is proven by anything. Just some more stuff you made up. Piccolo's blast was not moon-busting and there's nothing stating anything about "ki control" being like that. Simple as that.

3. Notice how you said "destroy a building". That's a lot more specific than just saying "world" so it's not the same thing. You keep trying to substitute "destroying the world" with "blowing up a planet" when it could mean different things. I'm pretty sure you know this but we all know you'll use any kind of excuse to make DBZ characters so much stronger so that's why you keep trying to force that particular meaning in the discussion.

4. Yeah, yeah, enough with the power level crap, let me just answer your question: obviously, character B is more durable but unlike your Piccolo/Raditz argument, we KNOW it was the same thing that was used on something (or someone) else in this case.

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
1. I only remember Goku knocking the blasts away, not dodging them (unless you're referring to something else). And I never said they can't react and detect a weaker opponent's attacks. Perhaps we got different ideas of "up close" and "far away".

Frieza can't be that durable if large chunks of his body were blown away by that explosion. As even shown after being cut in half, Freiza can still be alive with missing body parts. The reason Trunks was able to slice him up was because it was a DIRECT hit. Heck, look at how Freiza was cut in half by his own disc, it went directly to him. Surely, you're not going to say that it can cut through a planet, are you?

2. Again, none of that is proven by anything. Just some more stuff you made up. Piccolo's blast was not moon-busting and there's nothing stating anything about "ki control" being like that. Simple as that.

3. Notice how you said "destroy a building". That's a lot more specific than just saying "world" so it's not the same thing. You keep trying to substitute "destroying the world" with "blowing up a planet" when it could mean different things. I'm pretty sure you know this but we all know you'll use any kind of excuse to make DBZ characters so much stronger so that's why you keep trying to force that particular meaning in the discussion.

4. Yeah, yeah, enough with the power level crap, let me just answer your question: obviously, character B is more durable but unlike your Piccolo/Raditz argument, we KNOW it was the same thing that was used on something (or someone) else in this case.

You misunderstood me. What I am telling you is, Piccolo with a power level of 350 can not shoot a single blast that would hit Saiyan Saga Goku. Aint happening, and yes, that includes the blast that made it to the moon at extreme speeds. As shown here, the more powerful you are, the faster your attacks. The only reason Gohan, Piccolo, and Krillin was unable to detect Frieza attack was due to them not being powerful enough to see it but Vegeta was able to detect and react to those blasts because of his power level jump.

Krillin states, but, but, we cant even see them (the attacks)...

http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/carver9/media/271099- ki_beams_get_faster_as_the_show_progresses_2_super
_zps711575c4.jpg.html

Piccolo confirms why they are unable to see the attacks and why Vegeta was able to detect Frieza attacks/moves. "Vegeta can see his attacks. HOW DID HE BECOME SO POWERFUL".

http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/carver9/media/271100- ki_beams_get_faster_as_the_show_progresses_3_super
_zps098044d5.jpg.html

Confirmation that people with less power can not detect people with a higher power level attacks. Also confirmation that the more powerful you are, the better you can detect other fighters attacks. With that said, Piccolo with a power level of 3 hundred and got darn 50 isnt hitting Goku who had a power level of 9000. Sorry bro. With that said, Goku can react to the same blast Piccolo shot at the moon near instantly.

2. Piccolo was out for the kill when he threw his blast at Raditz, the same attack that he shedded a moon with, so yes, it was clearly moon busting. Also, are you really going to sit here and tell me that Z fighters can not control their KI? Do I honestly have to bring up 100's of showings going against your claim? How about this, the topics that we are discussing, lets battlezone it. You pick 2 judges and I'll pick 2.

Also...

Do you have an excuse for everything? The destructo disk is the sharpest and most dangerous weapon in DBZ. It was confirmed as being capable of cutting through ANYTHING so yes, I sure do think if someone threw it at the planet which is made out of dirt, rock and water, it would go clean through it since we have seen said attack cut through a mountain with ease. This still doesn't take away from the fact that the half of Frieza body that was left withstood a planets explosion, and Frieza was near death when he withstood it. This was later confirmed by Frieza father that a mere planet explosion is not powerful enough to take out his son which lead us back to what I brought up before. It has been shown and confirmed that a Super Saiyan is more durable than Frieza and Frieza body withstood a planets explosion. 1+1 = 2.

3. I dont get your point. What is a world to you? If Goku said that he could not destroy a world, then that means that he can not destroy a freaking world, no matter how he attempted it. Why cant you grasp this? Everyone at the comic book forum did. You're literally the only person that cant grasp the concept of Supermans words. How about this, lets battlezone this as well or get a respectable debater in here...someone like Galan. Maybe he can break this down for either of us to understand. Deal? What I am saying is, with Superman statement, that means that only one person in the Universe can destroy a world, no matter how they attempted it, physically or with a blast. You disagree with this so I think if someone else minus myself said this to you, maybe you or myself would get a better understanding.

Dont understand your last question but what I do understand is that I have had the laugh of my life with your statement of a serious Cell not hitting Goku with a single blast that was on the level or above the attack Master Roshi (with a power level of 135) used against the moon. The Kayoken Kamehameha times 3, the one that Goku hit Vegeta with... is it less powerful than Roshi standard moon busting attack or Piccolo at a power level of 350 moon busting attack? If you say that this Kamehameha that Goku shot (and hit Vegeta with) is less powerful than Roshi (who didnt even exert all of his power) Kamehameha, first I am going to scream out laughing at you, then I am going to suggest we include this in our battlezone discussion as well.

Originally posted by carver9
You misunderstood me. What I am telling you is, Piccolo with a power level of 350 can not shoot a single blast that would hit Saiyan Saga Goku. Aint happening, and yes, that includes the blast that made it to the moon at extreme speeds. As shown here, the more powerful you are, the faster your attacks. The only reason Gohan, Piccolo, and Krillin was unable to detect Frieza attack was due to them not being powerful enough to see it but Vegeta was able to detect and react to those blasts because of his power level jump.

Krillin states, but, but, we cant even see them (the attacks)...

http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/carver9/media/271099- ki_beams_get_faster_as_the_show_progresses_2_super
_zps711575c4.jpg.html

Piccolo confirms why they are unable to see the attacks and why Vegeta was able to detect Frieza attacks/moves. "Vegeta can see his attacks. HOW DID HE BECOME SO POWERFUL".

http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/carver9/media/271100- ki_beams_get_faster_as_the_show_progresses_3_super
_zps098044d5.jpg.html

Confirmation that people with less power can not detect people with a higher power level attacks. Also confirmation that the more powerful you are, the better you can detect other fighters attacks. With that said, Piccolo with a power level of 3 hundred and got darn 50 isnt hitting Goku who had a power level of 9000. Sorry bro. With that said, Goku can react to the same blast Piccolo shot at the moon near instantly.

2. Piccolo was out for the kill when he threw his blast at Raditz, the same attack that he shedded a moon with, so yes, it was clearly moon busting. Also, are you really going to sit here and tell me that Z fighters can not control their KI? Do I honestly have to bring up 100's of showings going against your claim? How about this, the topics that we are discussing, lets battlezone it. You pick 2 judges and I'll pick 2.

Also...

Do you have an excuse for everything? The destructo disk is the sharpest and most dangerous weapon in DBZ. It was confirmed as being capable of cutting through ANYTHING so yes, I sure do think if someone threw it at the planet which is made out of dirt, rock and water, it would go clean through it since we have seen said attack cut through a mountain with ease. This still doesn't take away from the fact that the half of Frieza body that was left withstood a planets explosion, and Frieza was near death when he withstood it. This was later confirmed by Frieza father that a mere planet explosion is not powerful enough to take out his son which lead us back to what I brought up before. It has been shown and confirmed that a Super Saiyan is more durable than Frieza and Frieza body withstood a planets explosion. 1+1 = 2.

3. I dont get your point. What is a world to you? If Goku said that he could not destroy a world, then that means that he can not destroy a freaking world, no matter how he attempted it. Why cant you grasp this? Everyone at the comic book forum did. You're literally the only person that cant grasp the concept of Supermans words. How about this, lets battlezone this as well or get a respectable debater in here...someone like Galan. Maybe he can break this down for either of us to understand. Deal? What I am saying is, with Superman statement, that means that only one person in the Universe can destroy a world, no matter how they attempted it, physically or with a blast. You disagree with this so I think if someone else minus myself said this to you, maybe you or myself would get a better understanding.

Dont understand your last question but what I do understand is that I have had the laugh of my life with your statement of a serious Cell not hitting Goku with a single blast that was on the level or above the attack Master Roshi (with a power level of 135) used against the moon. The Kayoken Kamehameha times 3, the one that Goku hit Vegeta with... is it less powerful than Roshi standard moon busting attack or Piccolo at a power level of 350 moon busting attack? If you say that this Kamehameha that Goku shot (and hit Vegeta with) is less powerful than Roshi (who didnt even exert all of his power) Kamehameha, first I am going to scream out laughing at you, then I am going to suggest we include this in our battlezone discussion as well.

1. The scans aren't showing for some reason so I can't say anything about this yet.

2. Yet, you still have no proof that it was moon busting. Saying he was going for the kill isn't proof.

It wasn't the destructo disk that sliced Frieza in half. It was his own disk attack.

3. There's different things can be called "world". A planet, galaxy, universe, different things. And then there's the different ways of destroying it, such as blowing it up, killing people, causing chaotic incidents, ruling the world, different things like that. You keep talking about Goku but this isn't Goku we're talking about here. This is Darkseid. When there's a bad guy like him, there's plenty of ways he can "destroy" a world (think about it, he's a ruler).

I'm not sure what question you're referring to. I will say that the blast Goku hit Vegeta with was more powerful than the one Roshi destroyed the moon with but at the same time, this doesn't mean Vegeta is more durable than the moon. Like I said before, I believe blasts works differently on people than it does on moons or planets.

As for the battlezone request, no thanks.

Edit

This thread shows me people don't watch DBZ. Goku stomps.

No, most of us know DBZ

Sentry can bolostomp anyone in DBZ

Random new guy claiming guy that know the whole series and have done the research and arguments for a few years now, know nothing.


Adding bolostomp to the dictionary.

Just because you debate for a long time doesn't mean crap. Have you met Quan Chi? Cause he is a prime example of this.

Last time I checked Cell was stated as a solar system buster. Sentry cannot currently destroy a solar system.

So Goku stomps.

Originally posted by Werewolf582
Just because you debate for a long time doesn't mean crap. Have you met Quan Chi? Cause he is a prime example of this.

Last time I checked Cell was stated as a solar system buster. Sentry cannot currently destroy a solar system.

So Goku stomps. Last you checked Cell claimed to be able to bust a solar system. That doesn't make him a solar system buster, no one in DBZ has ever come close to busting a star, at best someone might be able to destroy the planets around one.

So your one of those people who ignore statements?

Originally posted by carver9
Prove that DBZ moon is made out of sauce that is weak (whatever that means).

You know exactly what that means. But here you go again:


"Master Roshi with a PL of around 140-180 (28-36 farmers) was able to bust it."

The farmer that raditz killed had a power level of 5. Also that's base Roshi, he amped.himself higher than that when he blew up the moon.

A known arrogant, egotistical character claims he can do something beyond what we know and then never proves it, nor he or characters far stronger..


..including a certain pink psychopath whose only goal was to wipe out everything in sight.

Akira Toriyama is the one who made the characters and he writes what they say. I believe the creator of a show than some random guy. Statements are canon and to be taken into the conclusion. You don't get to ignore statements just because they don't suit your argument.

Roshi blowing up the moon is an outlier

Cell being a solar system is a hyperbole (he was a guy who believed himself to be "perfect" and is composed of beings such as Vegeta and Frieza, both being braggarts who are known to overestimate themselves in combat)

Originally posted by Werewolf582
Akira Toriyama is the one who made the characters and he writes what they say. I believe the creator of a show than some random guy. Statements are canon and to be taken into the conclusion. You don't get to ignore statements just because they don't suit your argument.
By this logic the triforce is literally omnipotent.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
By this logic the triforce is literally omnipotent.

I don't play much Zelda so I wouldn't know.

By the same logic YYH characters can planet bust

Or SDK characters are FTL

****, there'd be a billion examples of this in Marvel (Sentry having the power of a million supernovas, Hulk being hit with the force of a trillion stars or somethng like that, Gladiator referring to the Maker as the most powerful being in the universe, etc)

What is SDK?

Samurai Deeper Kyo

Never heard of it. Any good?

Yeah, it's pretty good

Originally posted by Werewolf582
Akira Toriyama is the one who made the characters and he writes what they say. I believe the creator of a show than some random guy. Statements are canon and to be taken into the conclusion. You don't get to ignore statements just because they don't suit your argument.
As the examples above show, it's basic hyperbole used in every type of fiction.

Another is Delsin from Infamous. He has a laser powered move called Light Speed, and when first using it to run around makes a comment about running at the speed of light or something like that. Problem is both in-game and cutscenes the running speed is about that of a train. Statements need evidence of some sort.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Last you checked Cell claimed to be able to bust a solar system. That doesn't make him a solar system buster, no one in DBZ has ever come close to busting a star, at best someone might be able to destroy the planets around one.
Didn't Vegeta cause a star to go nova in the anime?

He blew up a planet while he and Nappa where on their way to Earth just to be a dick. Are you thinking of that?

Though he had a PL of 18,000 then, can't imagine he couldn't bust a star once he started going SSJ later on.

Originally posted by Robtard
You know exactly what that means. But here you go again:


"Master Roshi with a PL of around 140-180 (28-36 farmers) was able to bust it."

And what does that tell you? That with a lower power level comes a lot of force. The higher you are the more force you have which was proven when Piccolo with a power level of 350 blew the moon up with a casual blast.

Bro smash. I am about to comment on your ridiculous post.

Originally posted by Robtard
He blew up a planet while he and Nappa where on their way to Earth just to be a dick. Are you thinking of that?

Though he had a PL of 18,000 then, can't imagine he couldn't bust a star once he started going SSJ later on.

Gohan blew up the big Ghetty star (don't think I spelled that right but whatever). This was Gohan right after the Frieza saga.

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Roshi blowing up the moon is an outlier

Cell being a solar system is a hyperbole (he was a guy who believed himself to be "perfect" and is composed of beings such as Vegeta and Frieza, both being braggarts who are known to overestimate themselves in combat)

Piccolo blew up the moon as well and his power level wasn't far off from Roshis.

Lol at over estimating. There comes a time when something can only be beaten across your head until you realize it's the truth. King ki said Frieza was a universal threat. Piccolo said it. Goku said it. King Ki said it again. Akira made it known that Frieza was UNIVERSAL. Blowing up planets doesn't put you in that weight class because people like Thanos would never be consider Universal, no matter how well he did against a planet.

And Goku seemed to believe that Vegeta power was enough to shed earth. Don't understand why DBZ gets low balled so much.

Originally posted by BloodRain
As the examples above show, it's basic hyperbole used in every type of fiction.

Another is Delsin from Infamous. He has a laser powered move called Light Speed, and when first using it to run around makes a comment about running at the speed of light or something like that. Problem is both in-game and cutscenes the running speed is about that of a train. Statements need evidence of some sort.

That ain't close to being similar to the things that is stated in DBZ. These guys can read power output. If they say something is going to blow up Earth then the Z fighters better do something to prevent it from happening. Do you believe Kid Buu first blast was powerful enough to destroy earth?

Originally posted by StealthRanger
By the same logic YYH characters can planet bust

Or SDK characters are FTL

****, there'd be a billion examples of this in Marvel (Sentry having the power of a million supernovas, Hulk being hit with the force of a trillion stars or somethng like that, Gladiator referring to the Maker as the most powerful being in the universe, etc)

Yu Yu probably could destroy a planet.

Lol...are you really comparing Marvel and DC characters to DBZ? Characters that knows how to read the energy signature from another character. Are you crazy or something. A DBZ character can look at a person and tell the amount of power they have, if they are more powerful than them, and if they are decreasing or increasing their power level. Are you honestly going to sit here and tell me that if they can detect all of this just by standing beside you, they CANT detect if a blast have the power to lay waste to a planet. Like I've asked before...are you crazy or something?

Originally posted by carver9
Yu Yu probably could destroy a planet.

Based off.... nothing except for hyperbole



Well it's basically we apply the same standard across fiction or we don't apply it at all



Never denied they could sense energy, they've never detected solar system busting energies nor do they know how powerful it is

Also I love your special pleading



Piccolo is far more powerful then Tien, Yamcha and Krillin in the 23rd Budoukai, Roshi admitted he had no chance against them at that stage

Moon+ busting feats were never replicated until the Saiyan Saga

Not far off my dick



Both Frieza and Vegeta were known for this, yes



Just because they're "universal threats" doesn't mean they're universe busters

If you're trying to say they're universe busters, pfffff ahahahahahaha



Because DBZ characters have busted planets, which justifies this belief. Derp



He blew up Garlic Jr's planet in the filler arc

You're a god damn liar

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Based off.... nothing except for hyperbole



Well it's basically we apply the same standard across fiction or we don't apply it at all



Never denied they could sense energy, they've never detected solar system busting energies nor do they know how powerful it is

Also I love your special pleading



Piccolo is far more powerful then Tien, Yamcha and Krillin in the 23rd Budoukai, Roshi admitted he had no chance against them at that stage

Moon+ busting feats were never replicated until the Saiyan Saga

Not far off my dick



Both Frieza and Vegeta were known for this, yes



Just because they're "universal threats" doesn't mean they're universe busters

If you're trying to say they're universe busters, pfffff ahahahahahaha



Because DBZ characters have busted planets, which justifies this belief. Derp



He blew up Garlic Jr's planet in the filler arc

You're a god damn liar

If a guy in Marvel and DC have the ability to sense how much a character can dish out power wise, I sure as hell will believe whatever he say about that character output. If you going to deny one statement from DBZ, then you need to deny them all. Don't pick and choose which statement to use.

Lol...what reason did they have to blow up the moon again? Hell, how many moons do you think circle Earth? Of course they couldn't replicate it. If it was blown up the first time, that should have been the end of it...the wish was the reason we seen it happen again. How many times were you expecting them to blow it up. Lol.

Uuummmm...Roshi power level was 135 when he blew up the moon (and it took time). Piccolo power level was 350 when he blew up the moon and be did it instantly. That's not far off. That's only a couple of hundreds. Lol. Do you now what far off mean?

And both Frieza and Vegeta knew what they were capable of as well. Don't think Frieza would claim that he would blow up something without having said power.

Lol...no one said anything about blowing up a universe but what I am telling you is, a planetary level being can not be a universal threat which tells me Frieza is so much more (especially since his first form which only used .025% of his true power destroyed planet Vegeta with his finger). Get over it.

He blew up the star which was stated on panel.

Originally posted by carver9
If a guy in Marvel and DC have the ability to sense how much a character can dish out power wise, I sure as hell will believe whatever he say about that character output. If you going to deny one statement from DBZ, then you need to deny them all. Don't pick and choose which statement to use.

Except there are different levels of reliability in regards to claims

A guy who's formed from the cells of two arrogant braggarts who overestimate themselves (Vegeta believing Cell in his perfect form would make no difference when he was fighting Semi-Perfect Cell, Freiza bragging about how SSJ Goku couldn't win even though he was outclassed completely), not very reliable I say



Is this a joke or are you defective?

Replicating a feat of that level means he can perform a feat of a similar magnitude to moon busting. Nothing in DB of the magnitude after the 21st Bodoukai happens again until the Saiyan Saga

Considering city busting attacks were able to drain Piccolo Diamao considerably during the King Piccolo arc and Piccolo Jr used alot of energy after performing an island razer



Based on what did Roshi's feat take "time"?. Unless you mean a few seconds or so then, sure



Other than, you know, overestimating themselves and being braggarts, again



You brought up the Frieza being a universal threat thing. Trying to save face now, are you?

You cannot quantify the difference between said levels. You cannot say he's anything above planet busting



*snicker* Yeah, next thing you'll tell me is Raditz is FTL because Piccolo said he was from dodging his Special Beam Cannon amirite?

Originally posted by carver9
That ain't close to being similar to the things that is stated in DBZ. These guys can read power output. If they say something is going to blow up Earth then the Z fighters better do something to prevent it from happening. Do you believe Kid Buu first blast was powerful enough to destroy earth? Read; Earth.

They can say what will destroy the planet as they have faces power that has demonstrated to destroy one, Freeza. So tell me, how can they read power and state as a known fact that the power is at a level where it will destroy something they have no idea the force needed to destroy it? Or is it that you can prove they can 100% measure the exact force needed to destroy something they have never seen destroyed before?

More to the point no one has ever said a character, even the villains, has the potency to wipe out anything larder than a planet. It just hasn't happened. The single claim came from the most arrogant character in the series.


And another question. In a post above you said its confirmed that Freeza is a universal level threat. Obviously misunderstanding what it means to be a threat.. but it also appears you believe that Pre-Cell games Gohan is star level, whish isn't far from solar system level?

What do we have then? Freeza is a universal level threat, young Gohan is star level, Cell who is dad above either if them is apparently only barely stronger than young Gohan, and Buu is only planetary to star level? Well that makes a troth full of sense.

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Except there are different levels of reliability in regards to claims

A guy who's formed from the cells of two arrogant braggarts who overestimate themselves (Vegeta believing Cell in his perfect form would make no difference when he was fighting Semi-Perfect Cell, Freiza bragging about how SSJ Goku couldn't win even though he was outclassed completely), not very reliable I say



Is this a joke or are you defective?

Replicating a feat of that level means he can perform a feat of a similar magnitude to moon busting. Nothing in DB of the magnitude after the 21st Bodoukai happens again until the Saiyan Saga

Considering city busting attacks were able to drain Piccolo Diamao considerably during the King Piccolo arc and Piccolo Jr used alot of energy after performing an island razer



Based on what did Roshi's feat take "time"?. Unless you mean a few seconds or so then, sure



Other than, you know, overestimating themselves and being braggarts, again



You brought up the Frieza being a universal threat thing. Trying to save face now, are you?

You cannot quantify the difference between said levels. You cannot say he's anything above planet busting



*snicker* Yeah, next thing you'll tell me is Raditz is FTL because Piccolo said he was from dodging his Special Beam Cannon amirite?

You're nitpicking. Vegeta boasting about him believing he can beat Cell with his new found power is different than someone that states "if this blast touch earth it will destroy it". Of course Vegeta will not believe in himself as a loser, he's a freaking Prince but at the same time, he knows what he is capable of. You're not good at this. Again, them stating that they THINK they can win doesn't help your argument since the people you are naming is full of pride. That has nothing to do with the destructive force of their blast or power output. We are clearly getting a definition from Akira on the power output of a character through the characters statement. Like I've stated before, if you can't accept one comment then you need to decline them all. Simple.

How is it a joke when Roshi or any other character in DB wasnt given the opportunity to replicate said ft. Get off the hater horse.

Which means that the power output King Piccolo with said blast is>>>> Roshi blast. This doesn't include the fact that during the time he destroyed the city, he wasn't complete. Also, you are contradicting yourself. You brought up Marvel and DC characters and you want to bring up consistency. Are you crazy or something? Do you consider Thanos as a planet buster because he only destroyed one once and he has never did so again and that was during the beginning of his career. He has never displayed power output similar to a nuke but, hey, collateral damage is the way to go. Do I honestly need to name characters that has displayed something once in their entire career? Piccolo was close enough to Roshi in power when he destroyed the moon CASUALLY that it gives us an indication that the Roshi ft belongs to the character and is an accurate one. You trying to use outside sources to help your lame argument doesn't hold here. How about this...

World Breaker Hulk and She Rulk punched each other in the face so hard that they destroyed a planet along with melting a bunch of super humans with the shock wave of their blow.

http://s1099.photobucket.com/user/psychogundam1/media/hulk6.jpg.html
http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/hulk7.jpg

We have the same Hulk but AMPED. ..fighting the same person that he punched in the face and they are fighting on Earth. They were amped to the point that they were the size of skyscraper buildings. And they didnt just throw one punch like they did when a planet was destroyed (with a single hit), they are actually brawling.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/8901502/Incredible_Hulks_635_014.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/8901518/Incredible_Hulks_635_015.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/8901523/Incredible_Hulks_635_016.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/8901525/Incredible_Hulks_635_017.jpg.html

Everyone consider them as planet busters....including myself and looking at the first ft, he is literally above that since well, they were not on the planet when the Shockwave destroyed it. Then we have Hulk boasting that he is a world breaker.

http://s1099.photobucket.com/user/psychogundam1/media/hulk.jpg.html

This Hulk has appeared numerous of times but only destroyed a planet once. Remember, he was on Earth, punching, body slamming, kicking against the same person he fought before (when they destroyed the planet with the Shockwave of a single punch) and Earth WWasnt destroyed. ..hell, the area they were fighting on wasn't destroyed. Is World Breaker Hulk planetary? Yes or no. Earth wasn't destroyed during their brawl, hell, it was a Lil facility right next to them that was still intact, but everyone considers Hulk as a planetary level being. Going by the way you debate, he isn't because he didn't destroy earth WHILE AMPED during a scuffle with another powerful being. Share your thoughts.

Lol...why can't I say he is more than planetary when it was thrown in our face that he is universal? Planetary was done with a small percentage of his power. Correction...planetary was done with .025% of Frieza power (first form) and he blew up planet Vegeta easily...without expending his power and he did it with one finger. His final form was millions of times more powerful than the form that effortlessly destroyed planet Vegeta with a finger. Lol...He is far above Planetary.

Raditz reflexes is FTL since I think Piccolo most powerful attack is faster than his weaker attacks (common sense) that has went FTL.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Read; Earth.

They can say what will destroy the planet as they have faces power that has demonstrated to destroy one, Freeza. So tell me, how can they read power and state as a known fact that the power is at a level where it will destroy something they have no idea the force needed to destroy it? Or is it that you can prove they can 100% measure the exact force needed to destroy something they have never seen destroyed before?

More to the point no one has ever said a character, even the villains, has the potency to wipe out anything larder than a planet. It just hasn't happened. The single claim came from the most arrogant character in the series.


And another question. In a post above you said its confirmed that Freeza is a universal level threat. Obviously misunderstanding what it means to be a threat.. but it also appears you believe that Pre-Cell games Gohan is star level, whish isn't far from solar system level?

What do we have then? Freeza is a universal level threat, young Gohan is star level, Cell who is dad above either if them is apparently only barely stronger than young Gohan, and Buu is only planetary to star level? Well that makes a troth full of sense.

Why wouldn't they have an idea of the force needed to destroy something? I don't think Goku is dumb to the point that he wouldn't know that the universe let alone a solar system is far above Planetary.

Cell knows his power and him telling us the capability of said blast is different than boasting about if you can beat said character or not. Also...lol, we do have other statements about someone else's power output. Kid Buu destroyed Galaxies within a few yrs. Like I've stated before Kid Buu either went planet by planet in a few yrs which resulted in the destruction of said Galaxies which would make him trillions of times the speed of light or he destroyed said Galaxies with the power output of his blast. Choose.

I never said that was the peak of Gohan power. He was just needed to destroy the star and he succeeded. I didn't state Frieza was universal, Akira wrote that Frieza was universal by numerous of characters statements. I already posted in an argument yrs ago with you with scans on all of the statements with Frieza being universal and a planet buster isn't universal. A galaxy watcher (King Ki) even said Frieza was a universal threat) and overall, he is. Also, Cell initial blast, during the beginning of his Kamehameha had the potential of destroying a solar system...He added more power to said blast after his statement of it being solar system level.

It doesnt mean any of that since none of them stated that was the height of their power.

Would you know the exact force needed to destroy the earth? Without anyone telling you the force needed or ever seeing anything on that level? Then again the layout of your example suggests they're just guessing. That all they know is that the attack is above earth level destruction. Now how great is the difference between earth and sun busting? A billion times the force.. But in your head they both know they exact specific level of force needed, but can accurately sense this level of force without ever knowing how much ki is required.. because guessing right?



Riight, because the man with the arrogance of both Vegeta and Freeza, characters who are known for claiming their victory on obvious losses.. this guy won't exaggerate right? Yep, most honest gut I know. Cell for president.

Face it, Cell was the only one to say anything above planetary and has nothing to know just what he can destroy.

Threats mean shit in terms of raw power, especially if influence is a known thing. For instance if Obama went rogue he would be a planetary threat, at least to all the inhabitants. Threat just means threat to all in it, not that an Obamamaha is going to wipe us out. Do you know what happens to planets in a solar system when the star is destroyed?

Cool, so Freeza is a greater threat than Cell, and young Gohan has equal destruction to him. Because logic.