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Savage hulk
Rulk
Mindless hulk
Doomsday
The abombination
Grundy
Killer croc
The thing
Collosonaught
Not spite the flash's could pull this off imo

killer croc, carv?

team bruisers win.

Originally posted by 753
killer croc, carv?

team bruisers win. would any of them even be able to TOUCH wally or barry

to answer your question: yes, unless we isolate their best performances, which you didn't stipulate in the op.

on a sidenote: carv, who the hell are you kidding? you clearly don't belive the flash is untaggable by superbricks and you made this thread so others would make that point.

some would also say DD is a legit superspeedster on par with SM and the likes, though I've personally never bought that.

Firstly, who is carv second, I'm not sure if it was barry or wally who evacuated 500,000 people from a city in 0.0001 seconds, he may have built up speed, but he still had to search for these people, taking 2 or 3 people to a location 30 miles away or something, he did this in a fraction of a second, and he moves faster than you could even process a thought, I don't think their tagging them they also have their speed steal also, IMP's they could possible vibrate their molecular sturcture and pass through every single one making them implode

ha! I only looked at your avatar. thought you were carv, sorry about that.

anyway, those very exotic attacks are rare and might still fail on some of them. by the same token, rulk could drain them, doomsday could adapt to anything they throw at him, hulk could go wbh and incinerate them with his AoE, etc. but really, none of shit is happening here.

I'm not giving hulk the ability to go wbh here that's just ridiculous, who would they beat, and who wouldn't they beat and it doesn't matter how rare those attacts are used, in the forums they perform to the best of all of their abilities, but I'm barring wbh for this thread as he could probly solo the whole roster with that force field and brute strength...

And I think they could speed steal dd and the huks, giving them the advantage over everyone their facing

they are to fight in character in this forum, which means they dont spam higher end attacks, but resort to them in a minority of times as thie personalities dictate.

when the dust settles, DD, the hulks, colossus and maybe grundy will be the ones standing.

Originally posted by 753
they are to fight in character in this forum, which means they dont spam higher end attacks, but resort to them in a minority of times as thie personalities dictate.

Fighting at the top of their abilities now aren't they?

How would they ever be touched by any of these guys..

MAYBE Doomsday has the speed to tag them.

Originally posted by 753
they are to fight in character in this forum, which means they dont spam higher end attacks, but resort to them in a minority of times as thie personalities dictate.

So your telling me to speedsters aren't going to resort to there higher end attacks against 10 bruisers, the speed steal isn't out of character, I read somewhere wally or barry stole the kinetic energy of an opponent and it took him 100 years to blink, imo they're going to def resort to high end attacks against these, they could pull it off, the Infinite Mass Punch could probly bfr or KO half of these anyway...all imo though I think the flashes could win this, but its 50/50 so far

Originally posted by 753


So using their super-power, super-speed, is a high-end ability?

they get tagged all the time by characters slower than them (everybody in comics)

Originally posted by LeonBuco666
So your telling me to speedsters aren't going to resort to there higher end attacks against 10 bruisers, the speed steal isn't out of character, I read somewhere wally or barry stole the kinetic energy of an opponent and it took him 100 years to blink, imo they're going to def resort to high end attacks against these, they could pull it off, the Infinite Mass Punch could probly bfr or KO half of these anyway...all imo though I think the flashes could win this, but its 50/50 so far he did that to another flash actually. knowing the odds they step up their games some

Originally posted by 753
they get tagged all the time by characters slower than them (everybody in comics)

Scans.

Originally posted by curryman
Scans. scans of slower characters tagging flashes? seriously?

Originally posted by 753
scans of slower characters tagging flashes? seriously?

Yes.

Scans of characters as slow as these tagging the Flashes when they're serious.

I don't see how they can get past Killer Croc.

Killer Croc 10/10.

Originally posted by 753
they get tagged all the time by characters slower than them (everybody in comics) its for plots sake, if they truly perfored to there ability, the fight would be one panel, ala flash winning wally and barry are WAY to fast for any of these bruisers they move faster than a thought wally and barry win this

Originally posted by Digi
Debating Format

Rules/Standard Fight SettingsBasic Knowledge
Each side receives basic knowledge of the other. A good measure of this would be what the general population of the character's homeworld knows. For example, that Superman has a weakness to Kryptonite is general knowledge, but that he's Clark Kent is not.


Full Capacity
It is assumed that each contestant will fight to his/her best ability, but still within the character's personality, unless specified otherwise. That means they will use any powers at their disposal. For example, even though The Flash doesn't clock each of his own opponents in the first millisecond in his own comic, it is assumed that is a viable tactic on this board since it is a proven fact that he possesses that level of speed.
It is also assumed that the characters fight at their optimum levels of ability - not explicitly weakened or unusually powered up for those who have variable power levels. Team Flash has basic knowledge and are at the top of their game. So people need to figure out a way that the brawlers can tag team Flash.

Also, the battle occurs at the default arena:
Originally posted by Digi
Debating Format

Rules/Standard Fight SettingsConcerning the Battlefield
Unless otherwise stated by the thread originator, the standard distance between combatants will be .5 kilometers in line of sight at the onset of battle, and there will be an implied "buzz" to signify the onset of battle. It will be assumed combatants are primed to go at the gun.

Also, all characters, regardless of where the fight takes place, or what universe/medium they are native to, will have full access to their abilities at optimum efficiency as they are depicted in their native universes. It will be assumed that each character fights as they are normally presented regardless of battle locale. This means that, for example, Flash will in fact have SpeedForce abilities if the battle took place in Marvel Manhattan. Battles will always take place on an assumed equal playing field. So yeah, team brawlers is hard pressed. People shouls actually read the rules befores nerfing characters while trying to quote the rules. The superspeed rules actually uses Flash as an example. facepalm

And to be clear, this isn't up for debate, it's a notification. If people still have quations then PM a mod.

Originally posted by curryman
Yes.

Scans of characters as slow as these tagging the Flashes when they're serious.
Slade

alright bada, I wont debate rule interpretration. they blanket the field with AoE attacks like thunderclaps and groundstomps to thwart the assumed instablitz and throw them off balance. the higher end bricks' damage soaks would let them tank the initial blitz and the collateral damage of their own area attacks. once the speedsters are off their game, they can be tagged directly by the agile bruisers. rulk adds a power drain to make things more interesting.

Team flash win, no way are any of the brawlers tagging someone who's evacuated 500,000 people from a city, picking up 2 or 3 people at a time, to a location 30 miles away, in 0.0001 of a freakin' second, if the flashes' always performed to the best of their ability every time they were confronted with conflict, they would potentially be unbeatable.

Originally posted by 753
alright bada, I wont debate rule interpretration. they blanket the field with AoE attacks like thunderclaps and groundstomps to thwart the assumed instablitz and throw them off balance. the higher end bricks' damage soaks would let them tank the initial blitz and the collateral damage of their own area attacks. once the speedsters are off their game, they can be tagged directly by the agile bruisers. rulk adds a power drain to make things more interesting. That's all I'm asking. We (mods) are trying to clean up certain tendencies and debating habits so things are more in line with the rules and spirit of the forum.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t577880.html


And stop picking on Carver. sneer


durhulk

Originally posted by 753
alright bada, I wont debate rule interpretration. they blanket the field with AoE attacks like thunderclaps and groundstomps to thwart the assumed instablitz and throw them off balance. the higher end bricks' damage soaks would let them tank the initial blitz and the collateral damage of their own area attacks. once the speedsters are off their game, they can be tagged directly by the agile bruisers. rulk adds a power drain to make things more interesting. all the bruiser's would have to 'THINK' of doing all these attacks first, like I have said, the move faster than a thought enters the brain, I read in another forum someone calculated the speed of wally, tony stark could be at the south pole, and wally could be at the north pole, and wally could have gotten to tony, ko'd him before tony had even processed a single thought

Originally posted by LeonBuco666
Team flash win, no way are any of the brawlers tagging someone who's evacuated 500,000 people from a city, picking up 2 or 3 people at a time, to a location 30 miles away, in 0.0001 of a freakin' second, if the flashes' always performed to the best of their ability every time they were confronted with conflict, they would potentially be unbeatable. that can be said for a lot of characters. most high heralds, in fact.

Originally posted by 753
that can be said for a lot of characters. most high heralds, in fact. that's exactly why they get tagged by slower character other wise what would be the point in the flash ending a fight before his opponent thought of a way to attack him?

Originally posted by LeonBuco666
all the bruiser's would have to 'THINK' of doing all these attacks first, like I have said, the move faster than a thought enters the brain, I read in another forum someone calculated the speed of wally, tony stark could be at the south pole, and wally could be at the north pole, and wally could have gotten to tony, ko'd him before tony had even processed a single thought as I said, they can soak the initial blitz. if you think the flashes can instako half a dozen ultimate bricks before they can react, Id say burden of proof is on you.

Originally posted by LeonBuco666
that's exactly why they get tagged by slower character other wise what would be the point in the flash ending a fight before his opponent thought of a way to attack him? thats not the only reason :shrug:

The flashes have so many wtf options to win this fight that it's not even a fair battle.

Barry and wally both run at near light speed, the faster they run, there mass increases ala imp, say wally and barry both run at there opponents before they even thought of a way to attack, both running there fastest and hittin there hardest. There easily knocking a few of these out with a couple of imp's or one shotting them off the face on the planet, then they could vibrate every single molecule in the body and stick there hands into each opponents brain, turnin it to mush, all done in a nano second...... Easily done imo

so this is just a bait thread?

Originally posted by LeonBuco666
Barry and wally both run at near light speed, the faster they run, there mass increases ala imp, say wally and barry both run at there opponents before they even thought of a way to attack, both running there fastest and hittin there hardest. There easily knocking a few of these out with a couple of imp's or one shotting them off the face on the planet, then they could vibrate every single molecule in the body and stick there hands into each opponents brain, turnin it to mush, all done in a nano second...... Easily done imo thats how you would fight, not them. as they dont do it in comics. 2 imps wont ko the top bricks here and they wont spam imps.

hows flash track record against doomsday alone to begin with? grundy?

But why does your tactic work? The bricks blanketing the field with AoE attacks? That's your strategy, not theirs. Also, as per the rules. both teams know basic information on the other meaning they're not going to try to slug it out with the top bricks, they would most likely try a different tactic to incapacitate them. The Brick team is at a disadvantage, no amount of basic information will help them move any faster than they're capable of.

thunderclaps and groundstomps are a much more standard tactic for the bricks, conceding flashes will blitz for real as soon as they realize what the'yre up against. AoE attacks make up for their lack of speed.

It's funny how they have to think off all these attacks, it's unreal how easy the flashes could win, and if it's a last resort I think they'd be spamming imp's

Originally posted by 753
thunderclaps and groundstomps are a much more standard tactic for the bricks, conceding flashes will blitz for real as soon as they realize what the'yre up against. AoE attacks make up for their lack of speed.

I understand the strategy, but disagree it would be effective. The flashes could dump each brick miles apart from each other, in the ocean, volcano, etc and pick them apart one by one before the bricks can react. They could speed steal the heavy hitters.

Originally posted by LeonBuco666
Barry and wally both run at near light speed, the faster they run, there mass increases ala imp, say wally and barry both run at there opponents before they even thought of a way to attack, both running there fastest and hittin there hardest. There easily knocking a few of these out with a couple of imp's or one shotting them off the face on the planet, then they could vibrate every single molecule in the body and stick there hands into each opponents brain, turnin it to mush, all done in a nano second...... Easily done imo Originally posted by Sh3nG L0nG
I understand the strategy, but disagree it would be effective. The flashes could dump each brick miles apart from each other, in the ocean, volcano, etc and pick them apart one by one before the bricks can react. They could speed steal the heavy hitters. Wally and Barry don't IMP or speed steal as part of their regular attacks. Those are really last resort, Hail Mary, attacks. Plus this:
Originally posted by -Pr-
Character Ruling Thread:Flash: Like mentioned about the Surfer above, Flash is a person, not a powerset. He needs to be argued as what he is and has done, rather than what someone would do in his place. As far as Flash's average goes, he is in general too fast for someone like Wolverine, but does not tend to just launch Infinite Mass Punches at the start of fights. It's about the average.
Posters don't get to assume the wheel of a character and use powerset over showings and what's in character.

Fair enough, but I don't agree the strategy being suggested by 753 falls within thw guidelines, the bricks in question never start a fight with AoE attacks.

it'll be a response to not being able to cope with their speed directly.

Originally posted by Sh3nG L0nG
Fair enough, but I don't agree the strategy being suggested by 753 falls within thw guidelines, the bricks in question never start a fight with AoE attacks. It may or may not work. That's what should be debated. And I'm not trying to single people out. But there are way too many people arguing power set. And we (mods) understand that other boards focus on power set and people have their favorites and hated.

We're just trying to avoid any lowballing and stroking as much as possible. And also get eveybody on the same page, debate wise.

ok, i will argue that AoE attacks are still slow enough to be evaded by the speedsters. They could be used as a defensive attack but not one that can't be overcome by the flashes because of their reflexes and reaction speeds. let's also not forget these attacks will not only affect the flashes but they will affect their teammates as well so they might not be all that effective.
I also believe the flashes could win this fight by using their creativity. they will usually speed blitz opponents by disabling their means of attack before they even realize what's happened.

This is what gets me about high end speedsters. In comics they get tagged. But 99% of the time they're avoiding civilians, trying to save people and avoid property damage. The default battlefield on KMC is just a e,pty area where the combatants start a half mile/half kilometer apart.

So In my mind, team Flash would be able to take out the weakest of the brawlers. But they would be hard pressed to 1 shot a majority of the team.

And team Flash can't simply carry any of the brawlers out of the arena for a BFR, because they would BFR themselves in the process, regardless of how fast they return.

Team brawler has 3 hulks, DD, Abomination, Grundy, Colossus-naut which won't be easy to put down. Plus if the team can coordinate stomps and claps, team Flash will be hard pressed to get a win imo.

Is this an empty battlefield? If so then this battle would end a slug fest, meaning unless the flashes resort to exotic attacks, the best they can hope for is a stalemate. However, if it's a standard arena, I could see flashes using their surroundings to set traps or build something to incapacitate the heavy hitters with. They need less than a second to come up with something powerful,

Originally posted by Sh3nG L0nG
Is this an empty battlefield? If so then this battle would end a slug fest, meaning unless the flashes resort to exotic attacks, the best they can hope for is a stalemate. However, if it's a standard arena, I could see flashes using their surroundings to set traps or build something to incapacitate the heavy hitters with. They need less than a second to come up with something powerful, It's always an empty battlefield, unless stated otherwise.

Okay, so the flashes have to act in character? Let's give them a boost otherwise they'll be running around saying 'too slow' for a couple of hours, the bruisers take central city hostage, and rigged the city with a couple of bombs, the population are all at the center of the city to be rescued IF they can beat the bruisers, they have 10 minutes to ko or kill or incapicitate (bfr) other wise the city will blow if a flash enters the city if a bruiser is still conscious

Originally posted by Badabing
It's always an empty battlefield, unless stated otherwise. yea its still an empty battleground

pretty out of character for the bruisers, but whatever floats your boat I suppose.

The Speedforce protects Flashes from thunderclap-type attacks. They can move through the atmosphere at lightspeed without ill effects. A thunderclap is nothing in comparison.

Wally and Barry win easily.

of course it is. it's a moving wall of force. its like getting hit by a punch or a tk blast.

The 3 hulks just go along with it and kidnap the city because there pissed off, collosonaught and the thing, don't know about there plan so its pretty in character apart from the last two

Originally posted by 753
of course it is. it's a moving wall of force. its like getting hit by a punch or a tk blast. they can see it coming and easily evade it

Originally posted by 753
of course it is. it's a moving wall of force. its like getting hit by a punch or a tk blast.

Nope. When the Flashes run at lightspeed the entire atmosphere along the great circle of their path is a huge "wall of force" moving at lightspeed towards them (in their frame of reference). And it doesn't affect them at all.

The speedforce protects the host ie wally west or barry allen, from air fricton and air resistance, along with there suit, and makes there body durable to sprint and run long distances without tiring

Whens something moves at near light speed, it becomes a 'wall of force' if they met the thunder clap shock wave head on, they would either pass through it, or split the shock wave so, thunderclaps are rendered useless

they would hit a wall of force when reaching c, because they are accelerating against the air molecules, which resist them with whatever energy they have (very little), but their aura that nullifies air resistance doesnt dig them tunnels through solid rock.

the thunderclap compresses air to the point where it behaves like solid matter pushed in a direction with overhelming force (a whole lot of energy). claiming they'd pass through it unphased is like claiming they'd move through a mountain hurled at their heads or the bruisers fists. it is just like a punch or a tk blast.

Originally posted by LeonBuco666
The 3 hulks just go along with it and kidnap the city because there pissed off still not in character, but it doesnt matter here. you could just say the flashes are motivated and wed accept it.

Originally posted by 753
still not in character, but it doesnt matter here. you could just say the flashes are motivated and wed accept it. that's what I mean, and yes they would, not because of the speed force aura but they can vibrate their molecules to pass right through solid matter, its called qauntum tunnelling so yes, they would pass right through it

the vibrating gimmick is a different and difficult one, requiring concentration. they usually dont just phase through anything.

But if there extremely motivated, they'll be able to concentrate to do it

Originally posted by LeonBuco666
But if there extremely motivated, they'll be able to concentrate to do it Who are you talking about?

That other guy said something like 'its out of character' or 'it takes a lot of concentration' but there motivated, so they'll perform to the best of their ability

Originally posted by 753
they would hit a wall of force when reaching c, because they are (1) accelerating against the air molecules, which resist them with whatever energy they have ((2) very little), but their aura that nullifies air resistance doesnt dig them tunnels through (3) solid rock.

(4) the thunderclap compresses air to the point where it behaves like solid matter pushed in a direction with overhelming force (a whole lot of energy). (5) claiming they'd pass through it unphased is like claiming they'd move through a mountain hurled at their heads or the bruisers fists. (6) it is just like a punch or a tk blast.

(1) Not only when accelerating, but also while moving at constant velocity.

(2) The "very little" (sic) energy equals, in fact, infinite energy according to the formula for relativistic kinetic energy at lightspeed.

(3) We are talking about the Flashes moving through air, not moving through solid rock.

(4) Nope. Air CANNOT be compressed into solid phase at normal temperatures. The critical temperature of air is 132.41 K. Thunderclap is a shock front of compressed gaseous air, NOT a solid wall.

(5) No, it's not. The Speedforce protects Flashes from air friction. They experience regularly, while moving at lightspeed, a stream of much more energetic air molecules (mainly nitrogen and oxygen gas) in much larger amounts than what is present in a "thunderclap".

(6) No, it's not.

these are the important parts of your post:
Originally posted by Magnon

(2) The "very little" (sic) energy equals, in fact, infinite energy according to the formula for relativistic kinetic energy at lightspeed.

(5) No, it's not. The Speedforce protects Flashes from air friction. They experience regularly, while moving at lightspeed, a stream of much more energetic air molecules (mainly nitrogen and oxygen gas) in much larger amounts than what is present in a "thunderclap".




when you run into a still object you will suffer a force equal to the one you imprint on it. if the object is running towards you at the same time, you add the vectorial forces. the flashes' are the ones whose energy approaches infinite, not the air resisting them. if a compressed wall of air is accelerated towards them at the same time it will hit much harder. So:

a) your entire argument is a no limits fallacy that their aura can dissipate any amount of energy whatsoever provided it's a mechanical wave traveling though air.

b) you assume the thunderclap pales in comparison to their acceleration, but if that were true, then IMPs would be clearly more powerful than it, when the hulk's thunderclap feats can actually rival perhaps even surpass IMP feats (notice that IMP is really just a name, their mass is clearly not infinite). example: doing the rulk in at his peak.


in marvel it can and the air doesnt solidify by losing energy and forming chemical bonds (quick compression would actually make it hotter). the air molecules are forced together so that the air mass's volume shrinks like it would if it were solid. it becomes as dense as a fast traveling solid and hits just like a moving wall.
Yes, it is.

Originally posted by 753

when you run into a still object you will suffer a force equal to the one you imprint on it. if the object is running towards you at the same time, you add the vectorial forces. the flashes' are the ones whose energy approaches infinite, not the air resisting them. if a compressed wall of air is accelerated towards them at the same time it will hit much harder. So:

a) your entire argument is a no limits fallacy that their aura can dissipate any amount of energy whatsoever provided it's a mechanical wave traveling though air.

b) you assume the thunderclap pales in comparison to their acceleration, but if that were true, then IMPs would be clearly more powerful than it, when the hulk's thunderclap feats can actually rival perhaps even surpass IMP feats (notice that IMP is really just a name, their mass is clearly not infinite). example: doing the rulk in at his peak.

Nope. You do have some correct stuff in there, but it is mixed with errors. According to the principle of relativity, there's no absolute frame of reference for motion, there's only relative motion. If you run at a stationary wall at velocity v, the effect is exactly the same as if you were stationary and the wall came to you at velocity v (assuming the system only consists of you and the wall).

The Speedforce can already deflect and dissipate the ultimate case: the air flow hitting Flash at lightspeed, with infinite energy and momentum density (whenever he's running at c).

I'd like to also remind you about the relativistic addition of velocities. The additivity breaks down upon approaching the speed of light: in Flash's frame, the thunderclap shockwave cannot approach him faster than c, even if he's running at c.

Originally posted by 753
in marvel it can and the air doesnt solidify by losing energy and forming chemical bonds (quick compression would actually make it hotter). the air molecules are forced together so that the air mass's volume shrinks like it would if it were solid. it becomes as dense as a fast traveling solid and hits just like a moving wall.

No, even in Marvel it cannot, unless you can prove otherwise (with a scan). Of course the air pressure and density are considerably higher within the shockwave generated by the thunderclap, than in the surrounding air, but the air still remains gaseous. When the Flash runs at lightspeed within the atmospere, the atmosphere along the path is compressed into a thin layer of infinite density anyways (relativistic length contraction), containing much higher amount of substance than the thunderclap. The thunderclap shockwave contains just the small volume of air which was displaced by the brick's hands.

I'm tired of arguing imo the flash's win this 8/10

Originally posted by LeonBuco666
I'm tired of arguing imo the flash's win this 8/10 Brawlers wins this 6/10

Originally posted by TheHulk
Brawlers wins this 6/10 i dont want to say this but, lets meet halfway at 50/50 it could go either way?

Originally posted by LeonBuco666
i dont want to say this but, lets meet halfway at 50/50 it could go either way? Lol that's acceptable too.

Lol

Originally posted by LeonBuco666
Lol Yo Leon did you vote in the Character Teir thread yet?

Originally posted by TheHulk
Yo Leon did you vote in the Character Teir thread yet? nope not yet im going to soon though

Originally posted by LeonBuco666
nope not yet im going to soon though Lol hope this ain't considered Propanganda but...

VOTE:WBH to Trans-Yes
WBH to High Herald- No
WWH to High Herald-Yes
Iron Man to Low Herald-No

C'mon!! The Gamma Nation(I plan on inducting you in actually) needs you! But most importantly....common sense...

Ill do it again

Originally posted by LeonBuco666
Ill do it again Lol thank you but again I'm just promoting....you can vote your opinion it's okay

No i was gonna vote for all the hulk tallies but i didnt think i needed to tbh, hulk smash!

Originally posted by LeonBuco666
No i was gonna vote for all the hulk tallies but i didnt think i needed to tbh, hulk smash! Lol that's sweet...Hulk will forever be smashing!

LeonBuco666,I now induct you into The Gamma Nation and for voting for The Gamma Father,you are rewarded a Medal Of Smash. Congratz

Its an honour

Originally posted by LeonBuco666
Its an honour Damn right it is!

Originally posted by TheHulk
Damn right it is! hahaha