3rd Raikage vs Hashirama Senju

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psycho gundam
http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/random%20shit/476756-images__1__super_zpsbc470605.jpg

vs

http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/random%20shit/Hashirama-Senju-Facts_zps899f65bf.jpg

only on-panel feats, for example feats that are manga only and feats done by the 3rd or hashi directly, not other people using their powers/techniques

Damborgson
Originally posted by psycho gundam
http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/random%20shit/Hashirama-Senju-Facts_zps899f65bf.jpg



look at that face. He's phucking adorable.

Demonic Phoenix
Originally posted by Damborgson
look at that face. He's phucking adorable.

Don't lie. You're only interested in his wood. biscuits

socool8520
I don't think the 3rd has a chance. Naruto was able to defeat in sage mode. I don't think the 3rd would hold up to Hash's overwhelming power.

psycho gundam
naruto used his own technique against him, and it's unknown if it was even considered a fatal blow (assuming non-zombie form)

socool8520
I was under the impression that it was a show stopper since it nearly killed alive. Hell, I though it was stated that ET enhanced regen, so Naruto would have done more damage with just his frs if the 3rd wasn't ET

danteiscool
most likely. not to mention that if Naruto was able to keep up with the 3rd Raikge enouhg to land that hit and Hashirama is faster than this is to Hashirama's advantage.

Demonic Phoenix
Hell Finger Stab, ridiculous stamina, and Lightning Armor with speed,

vs.

Genjutsu that renders sight useless, Giant Wood Constructs (one of which makes the Kyuubi look like a puppy and can bust Susanoo; others that can block Bijuu Damas and swords that can cut through mountains), Sage Mode, speed on par with Madara who had no trouble reacting to A, Wood Clones, and Healing techs on par with Tsunade's Byakugou.

How is this not a mis-match?

socool8520
^ My thoughts exactly. lol

Damborgson
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Don't lie. You're only interested in his wood. biscuits

laughing out loud

psycho gundam
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Hell Finger Stab, ridiculous stamina, and Lightning Armor with speed,

vs.

Genjutsu that renders sight useless, Giant Wood Constructs (one of which makes the Kyuubi look like a puppy and can bust Susanoo; others that can block Bijuu Damas and swords that can cut through mountains), Sage Mode, speed on par with Madara who had no trouble reacting to A, Wood Clones, and Healing techs on par with Tsunade's Byakugou.

How is this not a mis-match? no wind chackra, though. Izuna can be said to have a lot of stuff his bro had, but he still got wft ran though cause he's not invincible. The 3rd is nigh-invincible in his sleep and then can further increase it with raiton armour.

I don't see a total stomp

NemeBro
The one who can summon a mountain-sized Buddha that can beat the Kyuubi and Susano'o armour like a two dollar ho.

Demonic Phoenix
Originally posted by psycho gundam
no wind chackra, though. Izuna can be said to have a lot of stuff his bro had, but he still got wft ran though cause he's not invincible. The 3rd is nigh-invincible in his sleep and then can further increase it with raiton armour.

I don't see a total stomp

Hashirama's raw power output is a lot higher than what we saw the 3rd tank.

I don't either given his crazy durability, but I don't see it being even. The 3rd has to get close to Hashirama to hurt him, and that is going to be next to impossible when Hashirama has his genjutsu activated, and is on one of his constructs.

Q99
Heck, the 3rd died after fighting for three days. I bet with his wood stamina Hashirama could wear him out smile

dadudemon
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
...Sage Mode...

No, Hashirama does not have Sage Mode. I don't know where the wiki got that from but his mode is not Sage Mode: it is storing up his own chakra and then burning it up very quickly at once.

That is not taking in nature chakra like Kabuto or Naruto.

Wiki is wrong. Should be edited. Until it says, in the manga, "Hashirama had sage mode" or something like it, he does not have sage mode.

Darkstorm Zero

Demonic Phoenix
Originally posted by dadudemon
No, Hashirama does not have Sage Mode. I don't know where the wiki got that from but his mode is not Sage Mode: it is storing up his own chakra and then burning it up very quickly at once.

That is not taking in nature chakra like Kabuto or Naruto.

Wiki is wrong. Should be edited. Until it says, in the manga, "Hashirama had sage mode" or something like it, he does not have sage mode.
What DZ said.
Storing up a bunch of chakra and releasing it all at once is what Tsunade does, and she has a mark on her forehead that disappears when she does. Hashirama had no such thing.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Granted though, Hashirama's sage mode is not, or at least does not appear to be, animal related like Naruto, Jiraya and Kabuto's were. So, we have no idea where, how, or from whom he learned it. So, in essence, all we know is that it allows him to do an even bigger asspull than Susanoo itself.

http://mangafox.me/manga/naruto/v61/c579/12.html

There's a third place where Sage Mode could be learned from. Presumably, it is slug related.

dadudemon

dadudemon
This is what made me think that Tsunade is using a technique similar to Hashirama's:

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v60/c576/15.html

Demonic Phoenix
Originally posted by dadudemon
This:

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v60/c577/3.html


Looks much closer to this:

(don't have time to look it up...here was supposed to be an image of Hashirama in his chakra release mode).


Then this:

(This is supposed to be Naruto in Sage Mode)

This:

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v45/c415/2.html

Looks much closer to this:

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v56/c526/8.html

Than this:

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v42/c389/15.html


313

dadudemon
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
This:

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v45/c415/2.html

Looks much closer to this:

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v56/c526/8.html

Than this:

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v42/c389/15.html


313

Non sequitur: does not follow. In other words, your point does not actually make your point.


This is the only way you can make your point:

"Until it says, in the manga, "Hashirama had sage mode" or something like it, he does not have sage mode."

Demonic Phoenix
Originally posted by dadudemon
Non sequitur: does not follow. In other words, your point does not actually make your point.


This is the only way you can make your point:

"Until it says, in the manga, "Hashirama had sage mode" or something like it, he does not have sage mode."

Neither does yours as 'looks' have nothing to do with this (not to mention, Hashirama never released a seal on his forehead), and every canon jutsu that had the prefix 'Senpō' was done in Sage Mode and with Senjutsu Chakra.

This is the only way you can make your point:

"Until it says, in the manga, "Senpō: jutsu are not tied to Sage Mode" or something like it, Hashirama had Sage Mode".

dadudemon
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Neither does yours as 'looks' have nothing to do with this (not to mention,


Incorrect: both modes required no "being absolutely still for a bit and collecting nature chakra" but both involved releasing chakra that both amped power and speed. They also happen to be relatives and are the only two seen using a "mode" that looked like that that gave them those abilities.

I'm more inclined to believe it was a sage technique (not a sage mode technique) similar to what Naruto used against Kurama. It's just a Sage (the Great Sage) technique (the buddha thing) rather than a Sage Mode technique.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Hashirama never released a seal on his forehead), and every canon jutsu that had the prefix 'Senpō' was done in Sage Mode and with Senjutsu Chakra.

I don't know about that. I do know that Naruto used a Sage sealing technique while not in sage mode:

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v53/c499/14.html

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
This is the only way you can make your point:

"Until it says, in the manga, "Senpō: jutsu are not tied to Sage Mode" or something like it, Hashirama had Sage Mode".

Wrong: there is more evidence to believe that what Tsunade had was more accuratley representative of what Hashirama was doing than what Naruto does. No evidence fits what Hashirama had as being a Sage Mode beside a reference to sage.

psycho gundam
I totally agree. Until decreed by kishimoto it's just speculatory. Speaking of which, judging by looks the technique is more reminiscent of that tsunade thing where she heals without seals. The translation is whatever imo.

socool8520
I would have to agree with Dadudemon and PG. It does seem more similar to Tsunade's tech than Naruto's.

dadudemon
I'd be inclined to quickly change my mind if it shows Hashirama sitting still and gathering natural chakra a la Jiraiya, Naruto, and Kabuto.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by dadudemon
I don't know about that. I do know that Naruto used a Sage sealing technique while not in sage mode:

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v53/c499/14.html


This is the only peice of evidence that has any weight, the rest is speculative.

That said, The only hint that it may be a sage art was Kurama exclaiming "Riduko". And even then, it was done within Naruto's mind, he literally could do anything in there.

But, meh. it doesn't really matter. If Hashirama is capable of pulling colossal buddha's out of his ass with his own chakra, that makes it an even bigger asspull, and raises Hashi's ranking substantially. he'd be closer to the Sage of Six Paths than Madara is now.

socool8520
Reading through it again, it does just look like he had stored energy in his face tatoo. Once the attacks are over, it disappears and he seems to be near his limit. This looks much like Tsunade's skill, but obviously on a much higher scale.

socool8520
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero


But, meh. it doesn't really matter. If Hashirama is capable of pulling colossal buddha's out of his ass with his own chakra, that makes it an even bigger asspull, and raises Hashi's ranking substantially. he'd be closer to the Sage of Six Paths than Madara is now.

Not really. We already knew he was basically the most "powerful" person barring Rikudo at the time. This just staples it.

Madara is stronger then him now as he is basically both of them with infinite chakra and a stupidly high damage soak.

Damborgson
Madara is ridiculously strong right now. I'm really looking forward to seeing how he gets beat.

socool8520
Well, without Juubi and Tobi, he could probably be defeated by Naruto and co. imo.

With Tobi and Juubi, It will definitely take the Kages and co. plus Naruto and the alliance.

Demonic Phoenix
Originally posted by dadudemon
Incorrect: both modes required no "being absolutely still for a bit and collecting nature chakra" but both involved releasing chakra that both amped power and speed. They also happen to be relatives and are the only two seen using a "mode" that looked like that that gave them those abilities.

I'm more inclined to believe it was a sage technique (not a sage mode technique) similar to what Naruto used against Kurama. It's just a Sage (the Great Sage) technique (the buddha thing) rather than a Sage Mode technique.

Incorrect: You have to prove that Hashirama never stood still or gathered chakra, and you have to prove that he released chakra in a manner similar to Tsunade. To do the former, you have to show me a scan with Hashirama dancing about prior to using his jutsu. To do the latter, you have to show me a marking on his forehead that disappeared when he released his chakra, which caused other markings on his face to appear. To do all of this, you have to pull them out of your ass. uhuh

Joins his hands as if he is preparing for a jutsu, which means he's gathering chakra, then stands completely still, all whilst talking to Madara (You can see that Hashirama's eye has changed. Remind you of anyone else? I hope it isn't Tsunade)
Conversing with someone , does not prevent you from gathering natural energy.

There goes your argument.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I don't know about that. I do know that Naruto used a Sage sealing technique while not in sage mode:

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v53/c499/14.html

I don't know about that. I do know that his sealing tech never had the word "Senpō" precede it, and thus, it does not counter my point.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Wrong: there is more evidence to believe that what Tsunade had was more accuratley representative of what Hashirama was doing than what Naruto does. No evidence fits what Hashirama had as being a Sage Mode beside a reference to sage.

Wrong: It is not a mere reference to 'Sage' like Kurama mentioning the Sage of the Six Paths, but direct evidence that Senjutsu chakra was used to enhance his Mokuton jutsu. Every other jutsu with a name that has had the word "Senpō/Sage Art" precede it, has been a jutsu enhanced by Senjutsu chakra. It is the same principle that applies to the more common varieties of Katon/Fuuton/Raiton/Doton/Suiton/etc. which means that the jutsu is a part of particular class.

#1 #2 #3 #4 #5 (i) #5 (ii) # 6 # 7

Hashirama can create and use Senjutsu Chakra, and since Senjutsu chakra can only be used if one is in a Sage Mode, or if one is almost a stone statue (which he wasn't) he had a variant of Sage Mode. Combined with the fact that he stood still and showed signs of a transformation (eyes, markings) makes it all but certain that Hashirama used Sage Mode.

This is not debatable. It is directly shown in the manga, and you have brought nothing to the table but speculation and your 'inclinations' to try and disprove it. Come back when and if Kishi decides to retcon this. Otherwise, stop wasting my semi-precious KMC time. uhuh

Heck, for all we know, Tsunade's Byakugou tech may be a cheap copy of Hashirama's Sage Mode, much like Juugo's transformation is a cheap copy of Sage Mode.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
I totally agree. Until decreed by kishimoto it's just speculatory. Speaking of which, judging by looks the technique is more reminiscent of that tsunade thing where she heals without seals. The translation is whatever imo.

Judging by looks, Black Panther is more reminiscent of Amaterasu, as opposed to other Raiton techs.

And the Third still gets whooped.

Demonic Phoenix
Originally posted by socool8520
Reading through it again, it does just look like he had stored energy in his face tatoo. Once the attacks are over, it disappears and he seems to be near his limit. This looks much like Tsunade's skill, but obviously on a much higher scale.

Where the hell is this marking on Hashirama's face that disappears when chakra is released, like Tsunade's?

Or am I reading a different manga?

Originally posted by Damborgson
Madara is ridiculously strong right now. I'm really looking forward to seeing how he gets beat.

9 words: Naruto and Sasuke holding hands combining Chidori and Rasengan.

stoned

socool8520
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Where the hell is this marking on Hashirama's face that disappears when chakra is released, like Tsunade's?

Or am I reading a different manga?



Right here http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v63/c626/7.html
It's even in the same spot as Tsunade's diamond

Then it's gone after the buddha thing
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v63/c626/10.html

Demonic Phoenix
Originally posted by socool8520
Right here http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v63/c626/7.html
It's even in the same spot as Tsunade's diamond

Then it's gone after the buddha thing
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v63/c626/10.html This shows the circular marking on Hashirama's forehead appearing before his jutsu is activated.

This shows the diamond marking on Tsunade's forehead disappearing before her jutsu is activated.

socool8520
And that's enough of a difference for you not to think the technique is similar? Come on man.

Also This http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v60/c577/2.html
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v60/c577/3.html

Looks very similar to this http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v60/c621/13.html
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v60/c621/13.html
Both tattoos appear when they are going all out and using the stored chakra.

That is way more similar than any sage tech similarity imo

Demonic Phoenix
Originally posted by socool8520
And that's enough of a difference for you not to think the technique is similar? Come on man.

Also This http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v60/c577/2.html
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v60/c577/3.html

Looks very similar to this http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v60/c621/13.html
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v60/c621/13.html
Both tattoos appear when they are going all out and using the stored chakra.

That is way more similar than any sage tech similarity imo

If markings on the face is enough for you to think the techniques are similar, then yes, that is enough of a difference to make me think the techniques are dissimilar. The mere fact that Tsunade has to release the seal on her forehead to use that technique, whereas Hashirama does no such thing, is enough evidence that the two are not similar like you people think they are.

Dude, 'looks' on their own mean little here. On my side, I have: Transformed eyes, the words 'Sage Art' preceding Hashirama's jutsu which means that Senjutsu chakra was used, appearance of markings around the eyes, and a massive increase in the size of wooden constructs that Hashirama made.

On your side, you have: vague similarities in appearance, and a familial relationship.

socool8520
It's much more logical given their blood relation, the similarities in technique, and the general location of where the tech emanates.

His eyes changed a little. Nothing compared to the animal like changes of the three real sages we know of. Obviously the size of wood techs coincides with the great release of chakra he and Tsuanade are capable of doing after using their tech.

Darkstorm Zero

Demonic Phoenix
Originally posted by socool8520
It's much more logical given their blood relation, the similarities in technique, and the general location of where the tech emanates.

His eyes changed a little. Nothing compared to the animal like changes of the three real sages we know of. Obviously the size of wood techs coincides with the great release of chakra he and Tsuanade are capable of doing after using their tech.

It isn't logical at all. Tsunade's technique involves gathering chakra over a long period of time, storing it up in the seal on her forehead, and then at some later point in time, releasing it for her use, in the process, destroying the seal. Hashirama has no such seal on his forehead. Given that it is Kishi, yes, the techniques likely do have some link and it is entirely possible that Byakugou is a watered down version of Hashirama's Sage Mode, but based on the evidence in the manga, Hashirama used Sage Mode, not Byakugou.

What? Naruto does not change by a marked degree when he uses Sage Mode. It is just his eyes that change, and the markings that appear around his eyes. Which is what happened to Hashirama.
There, 2 identical appearance-based factors between their Sage Modes. More than what exists between Tsunade's Byakugou and Hashirama's Sage Mode.

Demonic Phoenix

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Heck, since they are so fixated on appearance, the way their respective markings appear is different as well.

Tsunade's markings only extend/grow outward from the location of her Yin Seal. Hashirama's markings slowly fade into existence, much like Naruto's Sage Mode marks.

EDIT: This post of mine to socool was at the bottom of the page >__>

I'm wondering if they are reffering to the frog-like iris in Naruto's eyes in Sage mode... It's the only thing I can think of that is distinctly different from the others sage modes.

However, as I explained before, Hashi's Sage mode does not look animal based like Naruto, Jiraya and Kabuto's are.

Demonic Phoenix
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
I'm wondering if they are reffering to the frog-like iris in Naruto's eyes in Sage mode... It's the only thing I can think of that is distinctly different from the others sage modes.

However, as I explained before, Hashi's Sage mode does not look animal based like Naruto, Jiraya and Kabuto's are.

DDM said they were similar as he thought Hashirama never stood still prior to entering Sage Mode, but instead released stored up chakra. From where, he only knows.
As far as I can tell, socool is talking about the markings on the forehead, which is lulzy.

The reason Naruto barely changes when he enters Sage Mode is because he perfected the form. Jiraiya never did, and Kabuto most likely did not as well, which is why their forms had more animal-esque traits. All that happens to Naruto when he enters Sage Mode (in terms of appearance), is that his irides change, and he gains markings around his eyes. This is the more or less the same thing that happened to Hashirama in terms of appearance.

If the Slug-Snake-Toad thing is in effect, then Hashirama's Sage Mode is tied to Slugs. srug

psycho gundam
tsunade doesn't appear to have as vast a chackra reserve as hashirama does, so her having to store her chackra before hand to replicate a sealess technique of hashirama's is not illogical.

Darkstorm Zero
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
DDM said they were similar as he thought Hashirama never stood still prior to entering Sage Mode, but instead released stored up chakra. From where, he only knows.

That can either be explained by my hypothesis, or if not that, ther eis also the option of Wood clones. Naruto himself used Shadow clones to store up additional nature energy against Pain.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
As far as I can tell, socool is talking about the markings on the forehead, which is lulzy.

I agree.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
The reason Naruto barely changes when he enters Sage Mode is because he perfected the form. Jiraiya never did, and Kabuto most likely did not as well, which is why their forms had more animal-esque traits. All that happens to Naruto when he enters Sage Mode (in terms of appearance), is that his irides change, and he gains markings around his eyes. This is the more or less the same thing that happened to Hashirama in terms of appearance.

Indeed

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
If the Slug-Snake-Toad thing is in effect, then Hashirama's Sage Mode is tied to Slugs. srug

I'm unsure if it is slug based, since we don't know what summoning contracts Hashi has.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
tsunade doesn't appear to have as vast a chackra reserve as hashirama does, so her having to store her chackra before hand to replicate a sealess technique of hashirama's is not illogical.

No, but beleiving that the Byakugou allows the use of Sage Arts is illogical. it defeats the entire point of Sage Chakra entirely.

psycho gundam
not saying he uses her technique, rather she's imitating whatever he does. it has some of the hallmarks of sage mode, that's undeniable, but until kishi says so i for one am just speculating on what it be other than sage mode. mostly devil's advocate

dadudemon
Demonic Phoenix, I am at work and very busy. However, I did read your post and you actually proved yourself wrong several times. I'll post my response in 2 or 3 days: I will be on travel.

taetae
clearly sage mode smile laughing
does kishi really have to wank obvious information to readers throats?

until kishi says that naruto characters does shimmer or blink their eyes naruto characters dont blink big grin

since blinking and shimmering is automatic and is caused by reflex and closing your eyes is different and manual LMAO eek! and blinking was never narated in the manga like ( and naruto blinked his eyes ) laughing out loud

until kishi says naruto characters have genitals then thats the time they will have genitals.

since seeing bee pee in naruto ch 555 is not enough to prove that he used his genitals to pee

until kishi says kushina gave birth to naruto like humans then we are not sure if naruto came out from kushinas mouth like piccolo sick
laughing mad laughing mad

sage art....
read it
an art performed or made by sage.

rap song
a song performed or made by rappers.
even if you say your not a professional rapper the moment you rapped you are a rapper.

last but not the least hashirama will win this match ( 3rd rai vs hashi )
he will wank raikages throat 1000 times per swing lol >.<

being a descendant of six paths always have an advantage over a non descendant of six paths

Demonic Phoenix
Wow. Just, wow.

dadudemon
Originally posted by taetae
sage art....
read it
an art performed or made by sage.

Which is not the same as an art performed or made in sage mode.

Fail.

taetae
belief perseverance eek!

(Ninp&#333wink => Ninja Arts => performed by regular ninjas with their chakras
Ninja Art Summoning Jutsu poof stick out tongue
(Senp&#333wink => Sage Arts => performed by ninjas who married sailor moon and ate the gura gura no mi for a mighty bed rockin eek!

Senpo Cho odama rasengan => performed by naruto at sage mode because he molded the jutsu with nature energy
Senpo Mokuton Shinsusenju => performed by hashirama at a mode you dont believe is sage mode just because kishi hasnt say so laughing

taetae
in addition that's why they have mode
sage mode
because only in sage mode
=>they can perform sage art
=>can have sage strength
etc etc.
=>they can become a sage( thats why it is a mode ) roll eyes (sarcastic)

if they can use nature energy on a jutsu without sage mode then sage mode is irrelevant( useless )

on top of that mode means a particular form so sage mode is equivalent to
sage form

A sage is someone who mastered sage mode and can perform senpo

Sage mode is prerequisite to being a sage.
without sage mode you cannot become a sage =D
you cannot perform senpo bla bla

in ninjutsu they use chakra they say ninpo
in senjutsu they utilize nature chakra they say senpo eek!

psycho gundam
this new poster is like "phuck, commas. i will just hit enter instead."

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