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A planetary threat is approaching Earth of unknown origin and power level, you are in charge of picking one team of heroes to defend the planet against this unknown threat, which team would you feel the safest with?

---

Superman and Hulk

Thor and Flash (Wally)

Silver Surfer and Wonder Woman

Hal Jordan and Captain Marvel

Superman and Hulk. Definitely.

Thor and Flash or Silver Surfer and Wonder Woman.

If the enemy is intangible, invisible or have others weird attacks, Hulk will be useless.

Thor and Flash, and SS and WW, can deal with almost every kind of energy/attack.

A high level Sorcerer, with good speed/strengh/durability would be very hard to Superman/Hulk beat.

Team 2

Black Adam and Silver Surfer

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Black Adam and Silver Surfer
?

Originally posted by Starscream M
A planetary threat is approaching Earth of unknown origin and power level, you are in charge of picking one team of heroes to defend the planet against this unknown threat, which team would you feel the safest with?

---

Superman and Hulk

Thor and Flash (Wally)

Silver Surfer and Wonder Woman

Hal Jordan and Captain Marvel Team 2.

Unless we're talking "This looks like a job for Superman"

Thor and Flash can take care of business just fine.

They're all pretty capable. Superman and Hulk would offer the strongest brawn and brains (assuming Hulk isn't full retard and can revert to Banner). Thor and Flash are best suited for mystical and interdimensional threats. Surfer and Diana and GL and Captain Marvel are both equally fit to deal with cosmic/magic threats as well.

Personally I'd pick silver surfer and wonder woman.

Silver Surfer and WW. Some problems will require speed and flexibility and this team packs the most versatility and balance.

I gotta go Hal Jordan and captain marvel myself. Between the speed and brawn packed by billy and the versatility and sheer power of Hal... Yeah...

If second my team with surfer and Wonder Woman for a close second

Thor and flash for third

And hulk superman for last.

If all my fight needed was brute force against an earthbound opponent then switch the lineup

Superman's team, only because of Superman really. That guy always wins.

SM and Hulk

Team 4.

Thor + wally first, second SS + WW, third hal jordan + CM and last but not least hulk and superman

Originally posted by LeonBuco666
Thor + wally first, second SS + WW, third hal jordan + CM and last but not least hulk and superman

Phucking change your avatar already.

I creamed my pants when I thought I saw carver put hulk last because of his hate for superman, then i saw it was you.

Well am not carver so behave il keep the avatar how i want it not because pf how u want it

Out of the choices available

Silver Surfer and Wonder Woman

Though personally there are a dozen teams I'd pick well before any here.

Combinations of Dr fate, Doctor Strange, Alan Scot, Hellstorm, Obsidian, Dr Occult, Arion, Shaman, Genis vell, Mar-vell, Moondragon, Adam Warlock, Maxima, Thor, Silver Surfer, Orion, Mr Miracle and Hourman 1 million ) Matthew Tyler) would all come before these.

SS & WW

Originally posted by Diesldude
Phucking change your avatar already.

I creamed my pants when I thought I saw carver put hulk last because of his hate for superman, then i saw it was you.

Lmao.

1. Hal and Captain Marvel

2. Thor and Flash

3. SS and WW

4. Superman and Hulk

Superman and Hulk are by far the least versatile. Many problems/fights can't be won just by punching it. OP states unknown threat with unknown powers. Makes no sense to go Supes/Hulk (Hulk being the weakness).

Surfer scared off a Skrull fleet just by showing up.

Wonder Woman will allay anyone's fears about Surfer with her Aphroditic beauty.

Surfer and Wonder get my vote.

Originally posted by Mindship

Wonder Woman will allay anyone's fears about Surfer with her Aphroditic beauty.


That's just it. SS would normally get my vote. But Flash or Captain Marvel are just too far above her, and she brings the net value of the team down.

Originally posted by Placidity
That's just it. SS would normally get my vote. But Flash or Captain Marvel are just too far above her, and she brings the net value of the team down. That may be true. But she'd look great doing so.

Originally posted by Placidity
That's just it. SS would normally get my vote. But Flash or Captain Marvel are just too far above her, and she brings the net value of the team down.


??? how do you come up with that? Before Wally gained the speed steal and speed force ability she was the only DC character who could match a flash in speed. She's still the only speed non speedster to enter the speed force under their own power ( when she chased Jesse Quick into it. She's the only below skyfather DCU character to have beaten Superman in a fight ( and more than once) on a purely physical basis ( and she's done it three times - admittedly one was pre COIE, where Cap Marvel has only matched him a few dozen). She has better reaction feats than anyone here except Flash, she has better combat ability than anyone except maybe Thor. Hell when she was depowered ( the Artemis WW stage) she defeated three Amazons who were powered in physical combat ( she's just THAT skilled).

What she brings that cap and flash do
Speed to match cap closer to flash than anyone else listed
Strength => than cap, she's beaten him in an arm wrestle in his own title
durability =>than both, thanks mainly to her link to Demeter and the fact that the earth can heal almost all injuries in very short order.

What she brings they don't
The bracelets of Victory allow her to call upon the lightning of Zeus, plus by crossing them create a force field
The lasso of Truth is indestrcutible and can grant control over anyone it's put around
A far better combatant and tactician than either.
Super intelligence, May not be commonly known but Dianna worked on much of Themyscira like the purple healing ray she and Paula developed. In her series she was working on the cures to many of man's diseases with a group of physicians for the UN. she is accomplished in many scientific fields and speaks many languages.


Bring him down she brings it up because she is far above Flash and Cap Marvel in the power and more importantly versatility.

facepalm
^Nearly everything in that post is wrong. Diana never entered speed force, she has never defeated superman and that arm wrestle with cap was a phucking dream.

Team one gets my vote, because outside of their raw power and brains, Superman's charisma advantage over the rest of the characters in the thread, would help him to instill a sense of confidence in the people of the given planet being protected.

SS and WW for me

Originally posted by abhilegend
facepalm
^Nearly everything in that post is wrong. Diana never entered speed force, she has never defeated superman and that arm wrestle with cap was a phucking dream.

if Dianna nevet entered the speed force how did she rope Jesse quick in it after she she had entered it??

so superman ( who was bloodlusted) when he was under the control of Max and made to believe that dianna was Doomsday and had just killed Lois never lost to Dianna when she was holding back?? also when he was under the sway of Darkseid she defeated him. plus I have a few others wher she defeated him in H2h but they are pre coie and non canon. I'll link scans tomorrow

there's also andifference between a dream and a memory. yes cap remembered the event ina dream in his title but it did take place in war of the gods.

to further illustrate ( though you'll likely call this bs too and i'll find the scans on the weekend to support) in a ww and Flash crossover Flash is taken down by a speedster assassin who's reactions match his. Dianna in the second issue taks the girl down, she gets hurt by her hut still manages to react to most of her attacks( prior to speed force upgrade). another crossover shows dianna actually not only catch Flash but cut him off when he's racing off to stop a fire. uet another shows Flash commenting on her managing to keep ul with a look of surprise on his face. now when he fets the speed force upgrade and they race he runs away from her backwards grinning like a cheshire cat.

so please tell what else about my post was wrong, or is this going to be like your dissapearing act when you said she'd never beaten Powergirl in that other thread after i linked the scan??

Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel fought in War of the Gods, but the arm wrestling sequence was literally a wet dream from Billy.

id say wally and cap marvel they have a wider range of skill set and can fight a much different array of fights its not about overall power or else hulk and supes would b a clear winner

Superman and Hulk
not just the planet....but the whole damn galaxy would be saved

Meh.

I just see Wally giving Thor light speed and voila. Thor solos everyone in existence while Wally bangs his wife.

Originally posted by beatboks
if Dianna nevet entered the speed force how did she rope Jesse quick in it after she she had entered it??

so superman ( who was bloodlusted) when he was under the control of Max and made to believe that dianna was Doomsday and had just killed Lois never lost to Dianna when she was holding back?? also when he was under the sway of Darkseid she defeated him. plus I have a few others wher she defeated him in H2h but they are pre coie and non canon. I'll link scans tomorrow

there's also andifference between a dream and a memory. yes cap remembered the event ina dream in his title but it did take place in war of the gods.

to further illustrate ( though you'll likely call this bs too and i'll find the scans on the weekend to support) in a ww and Flash crossover Flash is taken down by a speedster assassin who's reactions match his. Dianna in the second issue taks the girl down, she gets hurt by her hut still manages to react to most of her attacks( prior to speed force upgrade). another crossover shows dianna actually not only catch Flash but cut him off when he's racing off to stop a fire. uet another shows Flash commenting on her managing to keep ul with a look of surprise on his face. now when he fets the speed force upgrade and they race he runs away from her backwards grinning like a cheshire cat.

so please tell what else about my post was wrong, or is this going to be like your dissapearing act when you said she'd never beaten Powergirl in that other thread after i linked the scan??

she beat a superman that was mentally compromised. not the same as beating him in his right mind.

Originally posted by Starscream M
A planetary threat is approaching Earth of unknown origin and power level, you are in charge of picking one team of heroes to defend the planet against this unknown threat, which team would you feel the safest with?

---

Superman and Hulk

Thor and Flash (Wally)

Silver Surfer and Wonder Woman

Hal Jordan and Captain Marvel Could be magical or mystical in nature? If so,

I would go with probably Thor and Flash (best combination to cover physical and magical threats).

Then Silver Surfer and Wonder Woman. Those black holes will come in handy.

Originally posted by -Pr-
she beat a superman that was mentally compromised. not the same as beating him in his right mind.

Still an impressive showing nonetheless.

I think it's close between Surfer/WW and Thor/Flash. Either Surfer or Thor are must haves for me. They could handle the widest variety of threats and deal with them all very well. I think the gear Diana could bring to the table would make me lean towards her team when comparing her with Flash.

Yeah, it was still impressive, but more for Diana than for Clark.

Originally posted by -Pr-
she beat a superman that was mentally compromised. not the same as beating him in his right mind.

Your so right, beating a Superman who is bloodlusted and aiming for your death while your "holding back, isn't the same thing. It's several times better.

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-2045848

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-2045849

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-2045853

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-2267425

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-2045854

Sorry about the order it's all over the place.

then there is also this time

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-2044307

and this time

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-2267414

No she's never had a good showing against Superman has she. I could pull six more but couldn't be bothered looking for the issues.

Oh and she's Never entered the speed force?

How pray tell did she manage to rope Jesse Quick who had entered it AFTER she'd entered it.


jesse entering, no sign of Dianna or her Lasso

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-2267422

then she's roped

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-2044309

here is Dianna matching, beating Wally before his speed force upgrade

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-2267400

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-2267401

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-2044305

So please tell me again how everything in my post was wrong. It seems I can back everything up, can you.

Because Superman was out of his mind with grief and rage. The writer confirmed this. Superman wasn't fighting the way he usually does, or like he can. Superman is a thinking man's fighter, always has been.

While being bloodlusted might benefit someone like the Hulk, it doesn't benefit Superman, ESPECIALLY when it's against someone as skilled as Diana.

And I never said she never has good showings against Superman. Please don't assume.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Because Superman was out of his mind with grief and rage. The writer confirmed this. Superman wasn't fighting the way he usually does, or like he can. Superman is a thinking man's fighter, always has been.

While being bloodlusted might benefit someone like the Hulk, it doesn't benefit Superman, ESPECIALLY when it's against someone as skilled as Diana.

And I never said she never has good showings against Superman. Please don't assume.

Sorry I though you were abhilegend who called all my post lies ( not sure why I thought that your avitars are not the same or even close).

My point was that even though he would not be fighting less intelligently he would be fighting with far more power and intent. IMO that level of drive would give you more than you would loose. Think of the fact that a human under adrenaline when a child of loved one is at risk can lift a car that they would normally not do. Take that and consider just how powerful a blood lusted Superman would be. The other two incidents I posted however are not in the same mental state. One of them is however before COIE.

Originally posted by beatboks
Sorry I though you were abhilegend who called all my post lies ( not sure why I thought that your avitars are not the same or even close).

My point was that even though he would not be fighting less intelligently he would be fighting with far more power and intent. IMO that level of drive would give you more than you would loose. Think of the fact that a human under adrenaline when a child of loved one is at risk can lift a car that they would normally not do. Take that and consider just how powerful a blood lusted Superman would be. The other two incidents I posted however are not in the same mental state. One of them is however before COIE.

More intent and more power, maybe, but against Diana, Clark only does as well as he does because he's a skilled fighter himself. He's not on her level technique wise, but his intelligent use of his strength and speed is what makes him beat her when he does beat her. Sacrifice, he was a ball of rage, and while he did show some decent smarts in trying to take her to the sun, it's a world away from, say, how he was in For Tomorrow, or Our Worlds At War.

Superman is at his best when he's emotionless. Cold, even. Look at Ending Battle, or Our Worlds At War. Or the fight with the Elite. It's no coincidence, imo, that Superman's best feats of combat all came in arcs when he let go of emotion and just became a weapon of extreme intelligence and ability.

@PR Don't deny that Supe's does fight better when less emotional. But as you your self said his skill in combat is still below Dianna's. I would point to the time that when Depowered ( Artemis was the new WW) Dianna defeated three Amazons who had super strength and speed with nothing but skill. Now they were skilled warriors who would have been at least not far behind the combat capability of Superman. With her powers, reflex, and skill ( and I've been lead to believe she's even more powerful NU52 - wouldn't know I've stopped reading) she is still more than enough to take on challenges on Superman's level. The idea put forward by Placidity that her presence in that team brings the team down below the others IMO couldn't be more wrong. She is at least able to match every other character here, and I would argue that because of her skill, tactical mind and intelligence is of greater value than almost all but Thor and Surfer

Superman may be inferior in terms of hand to hand combat, but as a whole, he's a great fighter who uses his powers in ingenious ways, prompting the idea that he can "do anything".

I will say that, really, all the teams are capable of dealing with all kinds of threats and any gap between them are quite minimal.

Yeah, Wonder Woman is no slouch. While I would argue that he's stronger and more durable than she is, she's no slouch, and is a lot more than just Superman's girlfriend.

Originally posted by beatboks
She is at least able to match every other character here, and I would argue that because of her skill, tactical mind and intelligence is of greater value than almost all but Thor and Surfer

Green Lantern, Flash, Superman, Thor, Surfer all have greater value than Wonder Woman. More valuable than Captain Marvel and Hulk though, I'll give you that.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Superman may be inferior in terms of hand to hand combat, but as a whole, he's a great fighter who uses his powers in ingenious ways, prompting the idea that he can "do anything".

I will say that, really, all the teams are capable of dealing with all kinds of threats and any gap between them are quite minimal.



I agree whole heartedly with Both Statements. Of course Superman is stronger and more durable. The only advantages Dianna has over him are her skill and her better honed reflex ( please not I'm not saying better speed). The thing is IMO all the members of these pairings can defeat each other with the right circumstance. In character Thor wouldn't beat Superman because of the speed advantage, using the full capability of Mjilnor he would. He could in theory last the distance long enough to bring Mjilnor to bear but IMO facing someone of Superman's power set he wouldn't even then because he would consider than a dishonorable win. He can beat Surfer because with Surfer his power set is such that fighting him with the power of Mjilnor isn't dishonorable because it's fighting fire with fire. The versatility of Surfer power set makes using the uru mallet acceptable within his. Dianna can match most not because she's stronger or faster but more skilled by far and not THAT far behind in teh other abilities. A highly skilled fighter will beat one who's stronger and faster by a bit every time and match someone who is MORE than a bit. Let's not forget that one of Dianna's regular enemies ( Cheetah) speed blitzed Wally. So on and so fourth.

If I wrote DC Comics (and I still hope I might one day), I would write Superman and Diana as having equal reflex speed.

Just So I'm directing my comments to the RIGHT person.

Originally posted by abhilegend
facepalm
^Nearly everything in that post is wrong. Diana never entered speed force, she has never defeated superman and that arm wrestle with cap was a phucking dream.

beating Superman



http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-2045848

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-2045849

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-2045853

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-2267425

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-2045854

Sorry about the order it's all over the place.

then there is also this time

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-2044307

and this time

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-2267414

No she's never had a good showing against Superman has she. I could pull six more but couldn't be bothered looking for the issues.

Oh and she's Never entered the speed force?

How pray tell did she manage to rope Jesse Quick who had entered it AFTER she'd entered it.


jesse entering, no sign of Dianna or her Lasso

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-2267422

then she's roped

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-2044309

here is Dianna matching, beating Wally before his speed force upgrade

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-2267400

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-2267401

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-2044305

I still haven't found the other scan of WW and Cap Wrestling that shows the one in Cap's title to be a memory not a dream ( it happened in War of the god's and I can only find two issues ATM) but here is WW clearly showing her Superiority to Cap

she has the strength of Gaea that is greater than the strength of Hercules ( which is what Cap has)

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-2989324

one of the three times she has matched or beaten him in combat.

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-2989325

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-2989326

So please tell me again how everything in my post was wrong. It seems I can back everything up, can you.

This is the second or third time you've called me a liar and when I've presented evidence in scans no sign of you. please back up what you have to say or stop making stuff up.

Originally posted by beatboks
if Dianna nevet entered the speed force how did she rope Jesse quick in it after she she had entered it??
She never did. Jesse herself never entered speed force. She was about to when Diana threw the rope and she was hanging on for dear life when it happened.

http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/15680734_WWPlus1JesseQuick-30.jpg http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/15680735_WWPlus1JesseQuick-31.jpg http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/15680736_WWPlus1JesseQuick-32.jpg http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/15680737_WWPlus1JesseQuick-33.jpg


He never did. She just stalled him after slitting his throat by breaking the mind control. On another instance he was still fighting after getting his throat slit by a kryptonite enhanced Batman.
http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Superman%20VS--/Heroes/Batman/Kryptonite%20Man-Enhanced%20Batman/?action=view&current=02-03.jpg
http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Superman%20VS--/Heroes/Batman/Kryptonite%20Man-Enhanced%20Batman/?action=view&current=04.jpg
http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Superman%20VS--/Heroes/Batman/Kryptonite%20Man-Enhanced%20Batman/?action=view&current=05.jpg
http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Superman%20VS--/Heroes/Batman/Kryptonite%20Man-Enhanced%20Batman/?action=view&current=06.jpg
http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Superman%20VS--/Heroes/Batman/Kryptonite%20Man-Enhanced%20Batman/?action=view&current=07.jpg
http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Superman%20VS--/Heroes/Batman/Kryptonite%20Man-Enhanced%20Batman/?action=view&current=10.jpg
http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Superman%20VS--/Heroes/Batman/Kryptonite%20Man-Enhanced%20Batman/?action=view&current=11.jpg

In sacrifice, he stopped attacking her because she immediately broke the mind-control after slitting his throat which didn't even stopped him from speaking much less beat him.

Under Darkseid's mental control? Never happened. Before COIE he soloed the whole JLA and oneshotted wonder woman in h2h. She has never beaten him in h2h. He would've killed her if he ever went all out in right mind though.

http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1991%20Red%20Glass%20-%20All%20Out%20precedent/03%20Action%20Comics%20666/1992a%20Sept%20-%20Adventures%20494/?action=view&current=AdventuresOfSuperman494p17.jpg
http://s764.photobucket.com/albums/xx281/panthergodII/Superman/1991%20Red%20Glass%20-%20All%20Out%20precedent/03%20Action%20Comics%20666/1992a%20Sept%20-%20Adventures%20494/?action=view&current=AdventuresOfSuperman494p18.jpg



Cap was being drained by Ares in WOTG.

http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/7343/wotgcmweakness.jpg

As for that armwrestle, it was a wet dream by Billy.

If you're talking about Cheetah, she was amped by Zoom. Her amp was absorbed by Flash before that. Aim-throwing the lasso. Superman has straight up raced and caught flash. Before Speed force upgrade superman was faster than the flash. Flash has openly mocked WW's speed. A relative performance might shut you up. Barry leaves wonder woman in dust, superman casually matches him in speed

http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/11897291_13.jpg http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/11897292_14.jpg

Never happened that either.

Originally posted by beatboks
Just So I'm directing my comments to the RIGHT person.



beating Superman



http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-2045848

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-2045849

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-2045853

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-2267425

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-2045854

She never beat him in sacrifice. He however oneshotted her in the same fight.

http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Strength/striking/WonderWoman219s.jpg



Hahaha, WTF dude? That's from a staged fight from Action comics 600 and Diana was far outclassed in that fight. Heck, she admitted that Kalibak was stronger than her in the same comic.

and this time

Again a huge lulz. That's Earth-two superman vs Earth-two wonder woman from All collector's edition 54. That was a stalemate where superman looked decidedly stronger than her.

I've destroyed far more knowledgeable WW fangirls than you. You are welcome to try though.

Already debunked.



Hahaha, that's from JLA:43 and in the same comic Flash was moving at mach 3 speed so he doesn't outspeeds diana. You are just terrible at this.


Cap doesn't has Greek Hercules' strength anymore. He gets his strength from Lords' of Order.

Cap was mind-controlled and being drained by Ares. Let's see when he's at his right mind and power sharing vs WW, J'onn, Kyle, Guy and Flash were mind-controlled

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/49-underworldunleashed3pg20.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/49-underworldunleashed3pg21.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/49-underworldunleashed3pg22.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/49-underworldunleashed3pg23.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/49-underworldunleashed3pg24.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/49-underworldunleashed3pg25.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/49-underworldunleashed3pg26.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/49-underworldunleashed3pg27.jpg



You are seriously one of the worst posters I've ever seen with no knowledge of context and straight up lying. Congrats.

Abhi, cut the hostility.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Abhi, cut the hostility.
Ok.

Nice avatar.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Nice avatar.
Thanks.

As this is an unknown threat that could come from anywhere, powers that can provide intel/situational awareness would be the most important thing to start with. Not every threat would arrive as a giant dude with a big sign that says "bad guy" on his chest. And not every threat would come with a big instructional manual on how to defeat them. Hell, one could argue that many threats would probably be completely hidden until the last second or that many of them would be indirect threats that don't have a direct enemy to fight (space borne disease/highly destructive cosmic or mystic phenomena).

For this reason, I choose Surfer/WW but just a bit over GL/CM. Surfer's sheer versatility coupled with his cosmic awareness plus WW's plot device (if we're talking about prereboot WW) gear makes them the most capable at determining what the threat is as early as possible and finding the means to stop it.

Originally posted by abhilegend
She never beat him in sacrifice. He however oneshotted her in the same fight.

Hahaha, WTF dude? That's from a staged fight from Action comics 600 and Diana was far outclassed in that fight. Heck, she admitted that Kalibak was stronger than her in the same comic.

If these are out of context, please point it out. Not being a reader of either Superman or Wonder Woman I wouldn't know. I ahven't read WW since before COIE and Superman since reign of the Supermen. I base my statements solely on these character on discussions/ debates I've been involved in on other comic forums. The fact that several forum members all supported a particular version of events mad me believe it to be the case.



sorry but this line I don't buy. I'm not knowledgeable in Superman and WW but I've been a JSA fanboy for almost four decades. I have all but 6 issues of All Star Comcis featuring them, All their appearances in Adventure, all but two JLA crossovers ( that i had but got damaged), their entire 90's run and 2007 run and about 12 mini series plus JSA classified, All Star Squadron, Young All Stars and Infinity Inc.

I may not know Superman and WW but I do KNOW what E-2 versions look like. That scan simply can't have been E-2 versions because the images weren't teh E-2 sylized ones. Superman's S on E-2 was noticeably different. Up intil the mid 50's it was more triangular after that it was narrower. Wonder woman's Tunic like wise had a notable. The eagle on her uniform was larger, going down the sides of the chest and abdomin not just over the breasts. That image is Clearly Bronze age E-1 versions. The fact that your being so disingenous here makes it harder to accept your above statement in good faith.


Not a fan and not a girl. 54 year old retired serviceman, but if thinking of me as a girl makes you feel better what ever.



I fail to see how. Jesse clearly stated in the issue ( and being a JSA Fan I read that one) that she had done it, she had reached the barrier of the speed force. She then caught savita ( spelling?) to bring her home. It was after that that Dianna roped her. She clearly roped her at light speed since that is the only way you get close to the speed force. I fail to see how making a statement saying one thing and then posting scans that clearly show the opposite are debunking anything.




Curious then that he had such a look of shock on his face that Dianna kept up with him.



Sorry but I AM a Cap Marvel fanboy with every appearance he's made since about 1970 ( and that includes the kids line books like Shazam and the monster society etc) and that is just bunk. He referenced the strength of Hercules as late as the last run of Justice Society a few times. Shazam is a servant of Order yes, the god's that gave him the power were also hasn't cahnged a thing. Just like Black Adam get's his powers from the Lords of Chaos courtesy of the deal Shazam's daughter lady Blaze did with Set. He still has the power of Shu, Mehen etc.



Underworld was only a feat of Cap's endurance and durability. Of course he went the distance, that's why he always beats the stronger more Durable Black Adam. Because he can take everything BA dishes out and keep coming back for more until he wears BA down. All Cap did in underworld Unleashed was get his but kicked until Jesse told him Neron's weakness for the seal and he offered himself to neron for everyone else. the selfless of his offer meant that neron simply couldn't take his soul.



Let me get this straight, your saying he did something pre COIE and offering post COIE scans to support it. Dude do you seriously think people are that stupid? In one of your scans is Booster Gold who didn't debut until a year after Crisis.

Your really not doing much for your credibility here at all.



No Zoom taught her how to increase her speed. She still had those lessons ( as I'm told) for their next few encounters. As I've been led to believe it WW has fought her at that level a few times. If that's wrong please provide proof, because so far I've a lot less reasons to believe you than those who convinced me of it.



the scan i showed didn't even use the lasso in it, do try to keep up.



I've NEVER said anything to the contrary. I Know he's faster, that's what Ive said a few times.


That the best jibe you have? I never cared what anyone though of me at 12 I certainly don't now. There's a lot of things I'm hopeless at

fantastic grasp of teh English vernacular you have there.

Wait, is that DC Captain Marvel or Marvel Captain Marvel? All of the teams are a DC/Marvel split, so I'm assuming it's Marvel, and if it is Marvel's Captain Marvel, are we using the original (Mar-Vell), his son (Genis-Vell), or his daughter (Phyla-Vell). The clarification on this point would effect my answer because a GL Ring and the Nega Bands working in concert could likely accomplish a lot, particularly if it's Genis-Vell.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
Wait, is that DC Captain Marvel or Marvel Captain Marvel? All of the teams are a DC/Marvel split, so I'm assuming it's Marvel, and if it is Marvel's Captain Marvel, are we using the original (Mar-Vell), his son (Genis-Vell), or his daughter (Phyla-Vell). The clarification on this point would effect my answer because a GL Ring and the Nega Bands working in concert could likely accomplish a lot, particularly if it's Genis-Vell.

Damn, good point. If it's Mar-Vell that would change my choice too.

Yeah, a GL + CA wielder (mar-vell/genis) would def cinch the "cosmic/chronal/physical" threat category for team GL/CM. But how will they do vs astral/mystical/divine threats?

I was also wondering which Earth? If it's DC Earth, I would say that Superman's universal reputation might be of just as much use as his powers.

Posturing should almost be one of that guy's powers...

Originally posted by Eel O'Brien
I was also wondering which Earth? If it's DC Earth, I would say that Superman's universal reputation might be of just as much use as his powers.

Posturing should almost be one of that guy's powers...

Pre-reboot supes maybe. Isn't this DCnU, tho? Also, from the sound of this thread, looks more like our Earth or at least a generic Earth. :-p

Originally posted by beatboks
If these are out of context, please point it out. Not being a reader of either Superman or Wonder Woman I wouldn't know. I ahven't read WW since before COIE and Superman since reign of the Supermen. I base my statements solely on these character on discussions/ debates I've been involved in on other comic forums. The fact that several forum members all supported a particular version of events mad me believe it to be the case.

I've already pointed the context.


Good for you.



Go here.

http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/All-New_Collectors'_Edition_Vol_1_C-54

See who is being listed there appearing?



Its a term for WW fanboys. Sorry if you ain't one of them.



You need to read more clearly the next time. That was Christina who thought she broke into speed force but she was just about to break into the speed force as wonder woman point it out later.




He was just surprised that wonder woman can achieve supersonic speed.



That was all retconned in Trials Of Shazam. Do you know what a retcon means?

Cap was beating her whle not at full power and took her lasso from her. You can't even look at the funny pictures?


Of course not. That was just a random scan blitz. I know.

You don't have any credibility at all at this point.


Nope. Zoom upgraded her and then wally stole that speed out of her before she was beaten by diana.

That supersonic scan? Lulz. I was talking about her catching the flash.


Again good for you.



That was not a jibe.

Lulz.

Concerning the Lords of Order thing:

I was under the impression that it was Freeman that got his powers from them, not Billy, who basically kept his original Captain Marvel powerset in addition to those of the Keeper of the Rock of Eternity. For all intents and purposes, I'd imagine Freeman's powers should be equal to Billy's as Cap (barring Freeman being blessed with Apollo's healing instead of Atlas' stamina)...even though Freeman sucked ass as Shazam.

I could be remembering it wrong as Trials of Shazam was an abomination for the most part.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Concerning the Lords of Order thing:

I was under the impression that it was Freeman that got his powers from them, not Billy, who basically kept his original Captain Marvel powerset in addition to those of the Keeper of the Rock of Eternity. For all intents and purposes, I'd imagine Freeman's powers should be equal to Billy's as Cap (barring Freeman being blessed with Apollo's healing instead of Atlas' stamina)...even though Freeman sucked ass as Shazam.

I could be remembering it wrong as Trials of Shazam was an abomination for the most part.
Black Adam confirmed this in final crisis. "Our power wanes. The Lords of Order we get the powers from are replaced by these new gods" or something like that.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Concerning the Lords of Order thing:

I was under the impression that it was Freeman that got his powers from them, not Billy, who basically kept his original Captain Marvel powerset in addition to those of the Keeper of the Rock of Eternity. For all intents and purposes, I'd imagine Freeman's powers should be equal to Billy's as Cap (barring Freeman being blessed with Apollo's healing instead of Atlas' stamina)...even though Freeman sucked ass as Shazam.

I could be remembering it wrong as Trials of Shazam was an abomination for the most part.

You haven't got it wrong, It was freeman, it was also the "lords/god's of magic" not the Lords of order ( they were killed by Spectre in DOV that preceded it and the reason it took place in the first place. It was also as you said the same powerset. The strength of Herc if I'm not mistaken was issue 6 ( maybe 7).

It was the "lords of Order pre the 10th age as all the ancient God's in DCU were Lords of order or chaos who had appeared to man to gain power by their worship. That fact has been

It was also completely retconned in Justice Society with the return to existence of Shazam, the stripping of BIlly and Freddy in power and turning BA and Isis to stone.

ROFLMAO tell me how long did it take you to look up and find a wiki site that has absolutely NOTHING on it ?? Is this plank page that tells us it doesn't exist supposed to convince us of something. Don't worry, I googled the title you mentioned and out of the 8 sites I visited one did list E-2 Superman and WW. Still since all 8 list the Daily planet as where it took part. That makes it very questionable for it to be the E-2 superman bescause on E-2 Superman works for the daily star


That was all retconned in Trials Of Shazam. Do you know what a retcon means?./quote]

Yes I do, it's a shame you don't because Tials wasn't a retconn. a retconn is retroactively adjusted continuity. It's basically when you go back ansd alter the past of a character and make changes.

I thrils everything is in the present and moving forward and getting on top og things. Trails changed no history it simply moved forward from a set point in history to deal with the changes to magic in general after DoV and move on. It could have been classed as a reboot, but it was rebooted back in JSA)

Originally posted by Placidity
Superman and Hulk are by far the least versatile. Many problems/fights can't be won just by punching it. OP states unknown threat with unknown powers. You don't read much Superman, do you?

Originally posted by beatboks
ROFLMAO tell me how long did it take you to look up and find a wiki site that has absolutely NOTHING on it ?? Is this plank page that tells us it doesn't exist supposed to convince us of something. Don't worry, I googled the title you mentioned and out of the 8 sites I visited one did list E-2 Superman and WW. Still since all 8 list the Daily planet as where it took part. That makes it very questionable for it to be the E-2 superman bescause on E-2 Superman works for the daily star

Not even a full second. You are supposed to copy and paste the whole URL. Pity you can't do even that.


Good, because it retconned the whole strength of hercules shit.

No. In final crisis Black Adam confirmed that their powers come from Lords' Of Order.

is this savage hulk who will probably force supes to bfr him to phantom zone because he would absolutely wreck the earth if he lost it...

Originally posted by abhilegend
Not even a full second. You are supposed to copy and paste the whole URL. Pity you can't do even that.


I did it's shame it was an empty page on dc.wikia for All-New_Collectors

and all it says is

There is currently no text in this page. You can search for this page title in other pages, or search the related logs.



Actually in issue 6 IIRC ( might have been 7) when Freddy went to the Jail and the challenge of the big guy with the tats ( had to get him out) that was when he reclaimed the "strength of hercules" cause that was his current form.

It was after he'd fought the mystical creature in the Desert by jumping down it's throat and calling Shazam while inside it. Fighting along side the soldier who was the current embodiment of Achilles. Which was after the chick in the tattoo parlor with the yiddish name for Solomon who gave him his wisdom. If you want to try and quote things as the source at least try and get it to a close facsimile of what was represented. I did mention that I am a Marvel Family fan didn't I and have almost every appearance since 79 and even 8 really tattered issues of Whiz from the 40's.

Stop trying to blow smoke.



since COIE their powers always have come from the lords of Order and Chaos ( in BA's case). That is where Shazam get's his powers from. It just so happens that the lords of order for Billy and Freddy et all were Solomon, Herc etc etc. Pre COIE in Classic Fate tales it was regularly mentioned how Lords of Order and Chaos would appear to man as god's so that worship would increase their power. It's the reason that most of teh Lords of Chaos Fate fought were named for Egyptian, Sumarian, Aztec, and other culture God's. It's also the reason that when he called on the power of the Lords of Order he would similarly call on ancient cultures God's.

In BA's Origin Shazam's daughter Lady Blaze did a deal with the Lord of Chaos Set so that Adam's power would come from Shu, Heru, Amon, Zehuti, Aton and Mehen and not the God's that Shazam and the Marvel family did. Think about it Shazam was a Champion before most of the God's that he get's his power from had worshipers. How did you think that happened?

In Day of Vengeance back in 2005 all the Lords of Order and all but one Lord of Chaos were killed by Spectre. How the hell could Black Adam have confirmed that their powers in 2008 ( final Crisis) came from god's that no longer existed ???

That's because he didn't he said that they were no longer.

It's no longer amusing responding to you when you can't even come up with something plausible.

Originally posted by beatboks
I did it's shame it was an empty page on dc.wikia for All-New_Collectors

and all it says is

There is currently no text in this page. You can search for this page title in other pages, or search the related logs.

Let me help you.

http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/All-New_Collectors'_Edition_Vol_1_C-54



Wall of text.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/1/15297/638222-freddy_and_adam.jpg

You were saying something?

@ abhilegend

ROFLMAO

I already found that one in the search I did several days ago. I stated that two sites mentioned Earth 2 versions. I also stated that all but one had the location of Daily Planet. Which interestingly isn't on Earth 2. You really didn't have to edit it out for me.

Your scan is even funnier. You said they get power from the Lords of Order and as proof you offer a scan that doesn't mention the lords of Order but the "primal ones", which coincidentally is what the new versions of Solomon, Achilles and Herc etc were called in the Trails of Shazam mini you tried to sling as another failed attempt to prove something.

So your claim is that Trials retconned away the away that Herc solomon etc are the powers of Cap. Well let's see what trials says


http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/TrialsofShazam3-Page22.jpg.html

http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/TrialsofShazam4-Page9.jpg.html

http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/TrialsofShazam6-Page14.jpg.html

http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/TrialsofShazam8-Page5.jpg.html

http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/TrialsofShazam8-Page25.jpg.html

http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/TrialsofShazam11-Page19.jpg.html

http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/TrialsofShazam12-Page22.jpg.html

The only change out of Trials was that Apollo was added to the mix because Sabine killed Atlas before Freddy got to him for his test and someone had to replace Atlas. Once Freddy beat Sabine he gained all the powers she had stolen.

Maybe you should focus more on those walls of text instead of just the pretty pictures. It would seem your missing all the actual content of the story.

I could load the rest of the entire series if you'd like or any other Cap marvel appearance in the last few decades ( it's the only reason aside from cross overs with Flash books that I've even Seen Wonder Woman), but clearly you don't have the attention span to go through them in enough detail.

Originally posted by beatboks
@ abhilegend

ROFLMAO

I already found that one in the search I did several days ago. I stated that two sites mentioned Earth 2 versions. I also stated that all but one had the location of Daily Planet. Which interestingly isn't on Earth 2. You really didn't have to edit it out for me. Clearly, I had to. As for listing daily planet, they are confusing it with daily star. The comic mentioned daily star.

You are not listening closely. These new versions of Solomon etc are not Greek and thus have no bearing upon cap and diana's strength level. They are Lords' of Order.

Meaningless scans. I never said that.

Again meaningless.

That's all you got? Anything else? If not, shut up.

None of us are "listening" we're reading. And as I said they aren't lords of Order because all the LOO were killed in Day of Vengeance which is why trials happened. Prior to DoV Herc, Solomon, Zeus etc WERE Lords of order ( always have been). But I can see you don't like words and can't focus long enough to understand that.



Sorry but you did


And if you truly believed they weren't the same god's then why exactly did Mercury return to his Roman god look, as did Apollo and the images of their true selves shown when Freddy saw them for who they were also the classic look.

Shazam has been called a Lord and a servant of order for the last 28 years.

I'd like to say it's been fun, but I usually like an intellectual challenge in a debate. Seems that all the guys on the real debate forums were right. I won't find that on here.

Originally posted by beatboks
None of us are "listening" we're reading. And as I said they aren't lords of Order because all the LOO were killed in Day of Vengeance which is why trials happened. Not all of them. No, they were not. At least shazam's gods were not LOO. Your jibes are as boring as you're.



No.


Because that's what freddy expected to see. Since when is Greek Zeus a black dude?

Totally irrelevant.

You mean comicvine? Lawl.

Originally posted by beatboks
I'd like to say it's been fun, but I usually like an intellectual challenge in a debate. Seems that all the guys on the real debate forums were right. I won't find that on here. Lol don't be that hateful cause you know that in every forum there is gonna be a guy who is a big fanboy and just puts out ridiculous arguments.....well the one you are arguing against is one of them....as a matter of fact he is the #1 Superman fanboy in this forum LOL!

Originally posted by TheHulk
Lol don't be that hateful cause you know that in every forum there is gonna be a guy who is a big fanboy and just puts out ridiculous arguments.....well the one you are arguing against is one of them....as a matter of fact he is the #1 Superman fanboy in this forum LOL!
Shut up kid.

Originally posted by abhilegend
You mean comicvine? Lawl.

Translation:

Welcome "New Member".

Now, GTFO!

^lolol @2 above post.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Not all of them.

You're making this far too easy. Seriously if your way of debating is to throw up statements that can be shot down with a single scan.

http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/DayofVengeanceInfiniteCrisisSpecial-Page13-1.jpg.html?sort=3&o=1

Here Spectre states and Nabu concurs that he has destroyed ALL the Lords of order except Nabu ( who he did destroy at the end of their battle. This is DOV Infinite Crisis. well before the Trials of Shazam mini.



Yes they were and here is one of many scans that prove it.

http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/NabustatesthatShazamisoneoftheLordsofOrder.jpg.html?sort=3&o=2

See how Nabu the wisest and most powerful Lord of Order refers to Shazam ( who isn't around after DOV until he returns in Justice Society) as a LORD OF ORDER. better start laughing quietly because the joke is on you. It's been part of canon for quite some time. Shazam get's his power from his namesakes the LOO and shares it with Billy etc.
I said REAL debate forums. CV is the same crap as here.

Originally posted by beatboks

I said REAL debate forums. CV is the same crap as here. Lol never heard of it..

Originally posted by beatboks
You're making this far too easy. Seriously if your way of debating is to throw up statements that can be shot down with a single scan.

http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/DayofVengeanceInfiniteCrisisSpecial-Page13-1.jpg.html?sort=3&o=1

Here Spectre states and Nabu concurs that he has destroyed ALL the Lords of order except Nabu ( who he did destroy at the end of their battle. This is DOV Infinite Crisis. well before the Trials of Shazam mini. That's why I said you don't know what's a retcon is. According to Trial of Shazam there are millions of LOO's who survived. That statement has also been made by Mordru who said that Fate was the last LOO left after he killed every other LOO off. He was wrong too.



facepalm

Shazam is a LOO. Being a LOO=/=servant of LOO. Before TOS, shazam's gods were actual Gods as shown in POS series. You don't even know what you're arguing now.
Nobody is forcing you here.

Originally posted by beatboks
I said REAL debate forums. CV is the same crap as here. Well, please... TELL US!
Where is this strange realm of calm, intelligent, civil comic book discussion?

Surely, you speak of a mythical land that does not exist.

Hal and Marvel.

Hal is the only guy who can definitively protect the entire planet at the same time, via shield manifestation.

Originally posted by Horrificus
Well, please... TELL US!
Where is this strange realm of calm, intelligent, civil comic book discussion?

Surely, you speak of a mythical land that does not exist.

Originally posted by Galan007
Hal and Marvel.

Hal is the only guy who can definitively protect the entire planet at the same time, via shield manifestation.

Originally posted by Horrificus
Well, please... TELL US!
Where is this strange realm of calm, intelligent, civil comic book discussion?

Surely, you speak of a mythical land that does not exist. comics ledger and Comic bloc are two. Discussions are fairly quickly decided with concessions from all. both sites have a very strong level of respect for all members. there are a fee others but i'm no there as often.

Originally posted by beatboks
comics ledger and Comic bloc are two. Discussions are fairly quickly decided with concessions from all. both sites have a very strong level of respect for all members. there are a fee others but i'm no there as often. Sounds nice. I will have to check it out.

Because, well, don't tell anybody, but... lookaround ... a lot of these guys wear Lady Clothes.

And, disgust... others collect stool samples from all the members. And they aren't even DOCTORS!

And ALL of them set their Farts on Fire dontgetit and other activities of that nature.