Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Goku, the protagonist of the Dragon Ball manga/anime series

http://www.oocities.org/vegettatr/pics/Goku01.gif

http://www.oocities.org/vegettatr/pics/Goku01.gif

vs.

Pegasus Seiya, the protagonist of the Saint Seiya manga/anime series

http://ilovethisdance.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/1098072-01seiya7et_large.jpg

http://ilovethisdance.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/1098072-01seiya7et_large.jpg

I think there's some competition going on between these two series (not that I heard this from the creator of either series, though). They both cast of powerful fighters too but they don't get pitted against each other that much on this site. So for now, I'll start with the protagonists.

Who wins in this matchup?

Goku destroys this one

Characters at Pagasus's speed can go to billions of galaxies in a very short timeframe, massively FTL.

Star+ durability in his Bronze Cloth and defeating guys that are that tough with his powers and physical strength, and the same as this in his God Cloth but at a Multi-Galaxy level.


Blitz, stomp, atmoizes, etc.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Characters at Pagasus's speed can go to billions of galaxies in a very short timeframe, massively FTL.

Star+ durability in his Bronze Cloth and defeating guys that are that tough with his powers and physical strength, and the same as this in his God Cloth but at a Multi-Galaxy level.


Blitz, stomp, atmoizes, etc. Wow this looks like 10x above even Superman

Even Cooler survived getting blasted into a star with two solar system busting attacks. Broly as a one day old baby survived a planetary explosion boosted with a planet destroying blast, after being stabbed in the chest by a super humanoid alien with enough strength to vaporize mountains by waving, while also creating a bio-shield capable of preserving his and his fathers lives while he flew in the void of space from the rubble of his planet to another galaxy BILLIONS of light years away. Now, give ONE example of durability from Saint Seiya that comes close to comparing to this, and I will say Goku gets his dick eaten in the durability department. Not to mention that even Vegeta in the Saiyan saga was a planet buster, with a power level of 12,000, while Frieza was at 120,000,000. Goku also fought on par with 70% power Bills, who can make entire universes vanish instantly just by getting angry. Not to mention that Raditz with a power level of 1,000 was faster than light speed, and Goku is in the QUINTILLIONS at SSJ3, along with being able to move instantaneously, bypassing time, while being able to use that ability in battle as he has proven on multiple occasions, but usually not having to, as he is QUADRILLIONS of times faster than light speed.. Seiya gets his anus grilled in this one.

1. Non-canon and non-factual.

2. Dubbing.

3. Horrible, horrible power scaling.

BloodRain, I'm just gonna act like you didn't say that, because all you've said in reply to any of my proof that Goku as a child is faster than light is "That's ridiculous.". Kid Goku moved more than twice the distance light could as it was expanding, and dodged punches that moved faster than that light itself. Not to mention the fact that Akira Toriyama designed and directed both of those movies and their main protagonists, so I'm gonna trust that the original author knows what's cannon, more than some whiney 12 year old on a forum that can't handle his favorite characters losing.

Nah, just debunked this so many times with the #1 crazed fanboy on the site that I'm waiting for better evidence to crop up. No offence.

As said on the above WoT, its off non-canon material, using false facts that the Jap version covers and goes on to use the obviously boffins powerlevel direct linear scaling.



Do like how every thread I'm in apparently had my favorite character in.. I swear you guys improv from the same script.

If Goku dodge light as akid then he definitely stomps sorry BR but the Solar Flare is a light based attack and if Goku dodged it well you get the point.

LOL, You haven't debunked anything, all you've replied with is, "This is outlier, that's ridiculous, it's not cannon.", when Akira Toriyama wouldn't have Broly in the Daizenshuu if he wasn't cannon. Also, I wasn't implying that every character was your favorite, dumb ass. Any third grader with a sense of inferences could easily establish that you have a set of your favorite characters, and can't stand to see any of them lose. You're replies are getting sadder and sadder... At least the sacred108 guy gets it.

Actually I rarely watch DBZ

But hey, at least if you can tell the difference in power between a solar system buster that moves at hundreds of times FTL, and people who can casually destroy multiverses by screaming and move quintillions of times faster than light without using the time bypassing instant transmission, then you can at least claim intellectual superiority on half the people on this website.

Brolly can be in the book all he likes. He can do a special swimsuit cover for the next one.. means nothing but him being part of the franchise.

haermm Quintillions. Brilliant.
Originally posted by sacred108
If Goku dodge light as akid then he definitely stomps sorry BR but the Solar Flare is a light based attack and if Goku dodged it well you get the point. Just going to point to every character failing to react so something apparently billions, trillions etc slower than themselves. Thats like you getting hit by something coming at you moving slower than the speed hair grows at

Calcs put Pegs are actually in the quintillion range. Not through random false powersclaing, guys actually worked things out.

Seiya is too fast for Goku and strong enough to deal heavy damage.

Even in comicbooks you'd be hardpressed to find characters faster than the high power Saints.

Except Flash, Wally solos the Gold Saints.

@ BloodRain: Put more time into your replies, they are getting less and less readable every day. Goku at a power level of about 150 was able to outrun light itself. Frieza in full power was at 120,000,000 according to the Daizenshuu. Supreme Kai said he, the weakest of supreme kai's, was at least a thousand times more powerful than Frieza. He also said that he never imagined the Saiyan's being thousands of times stronger than him, and that was before he saw the Super Saiyan's.

I don't even know what you were trying to imply in your third and fourth points, as you probably typed that all in less than 10 seconds. However, if you're implying that Goku's hair grows faster than light, I think you may have brain damage. I like Goku and he's my favorite character in fiction, but I'm not stupid, and I try to be as unbiased as possible and realistic in these types of things.

@ Bentley: Kid Goku, as I said earlier, with a power level of about 150 dodged light itself and several light speed attacks. Frieza was 120,000,000, and SSJ1 Goku when he first went Super on Namek was 150,000,000. Power level gauges ki levels, which are used to multiply physical abilities, so if someone is a power level of 100, then someone with a power level of 1,000 is 10 times faster and stronger than them, according to the Daizenshuu. So, SSJ1 Goku on Namek was at least 1 million times faster than light. That can explain why the 5 minutes on Namek was about 30 episodes long, lol.

Also, Piccolo Junior claimed in Dragon Ball that he could destroy the entire planet with his demon wave. However, the Daizenshuu says the weakest person in DB/DBZ that can destroy planets with one attack is Raditz, with a power level of 1,000-1,200. Again, measuring the two character's ki's, SSJ1 Goku on Namek can blow up the equivalent of 150,000 planets with one attack. Again, Supreme kai was 1,000 times more powerful than Frieza, and Goku was at least 1,000 times more powerful than him, even in base form. That makes base Goku in the Buu saga able to destroy about 150,000,000,000 planets with one attack. Not even including the SSJ forms, Goku in the Buu saga in base form was a casual galaxy buster. Not to mention that he was stronger than Mystic Gohan in SSJ3, during BoG's, and was INCOMPARABLY stronger in SSJG, much stronger than even Super Vegetto, who stopped Buuhan from destroying the multiverse by screaming.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
@ Bentley: Kid Goku, as I said earlier, with a power level of about 150 dodged light itself and several light speed attacks.

Sorry, I didn't take that statement into account because its false. And then you go to spout more innacurate and downright false statements which have been disproved countless times already. So... Yeah.

Um... WHEN has it been disproven? Goku moved faster than Solar Flare as it was moving outwards, and Solar Flare is flash of light itself. What have I typed that was inaccurate? Name one thing. You deny these things because you don't want a character that you dislike to be indescribably superior to your favorite character. You're just a fanboy in denial like the BloodRain guy, that's too stupid to point out one flaw in my argument. All you can do is call names and deny facts. So... Yeah.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Um... WHEN has it been disproven? Goku moved faster than Solar Flare as it was moving outwards, and Solar Flare is flash of light itself. What have I typed that was inaccurate? Name one thing. You deny these things because you don't want a character that you dislike to be indescribably superior to your favorite character. You're just a fanboy in denial like the BloodRain guy, that's too stupid to point out one flaw in my argument. All you can do is call names and deny facts. So... Yeah.

Personally I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss people as fanboys. I don't come to the forums to impose my views to other but to learn stuff and establish constructive dialogue, because constructive dialogue is fun.

If you're an honest poster, instead of namecalling, you'll look for the proof I mentioned by yourself, educate yourself further in the topic and develop more deep knowledge of both Dragon Ball and Saint Seiya. If you're not an honest poster, no amount of reason will sway you from twisting facts to your own proposes.

As such, I'll leave the conclusion to you. I'd refrain from attacking me again if I were you just because you dislike my reasoning and you want me to engage in a potentially fruitless debate. I don't mean to be defensive, nor insult you in any fashion, sorry if my answer seems condescending, I'm trying honesty here.

As for your question: last week. I saw a rebbutal of your lightspeed argument last week. That should narrow the search down

Originally posted by Bentley
Personally I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss people as fanboys. I don't come to the forums to impose my views to other but to learn stuff and establish constructive dialogue, because constructive dialogue is fun.

If you're an honest poster, instead of namecalling, you'll look for the proof I mentioned by yourself, educate yourself further in the topic and develop more deep knowledge of both Dragon Ball and Saint Seiya. If you're not an honest poster, no amount of reason will sway you from twisting facts to your own proposes.

As such, I'll leave the conclusion to you. I'd refrain from attacking me again if I were you just because you dislike my reasoning and you want me to engage in a potentially fruitless debate. I don't mean to be defensive, nor insult you in any fashion, sorry if my answer seems condescending, I'm trying honesty here.

As for your question: last week. I saw a rebbutal of your lightspeed argument last week. That should narrow the search down

lol, I don't need a pseudo-lecture from an internet tough guy on a superiority high.

The only defense against my Kid Goku LS argument is "He can't travel snake way that fast though", or "That's outlier, lol", from idiots who don't even know what an outlier is. Try again.

Seiya

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Even Cooler survived getting blasted into a star with two solar system busting attacks. Broly as a one day old baby survived a planetary explosion boosted with a planet destroying blast, after being stabbed in the chest by a super humanoid alien with enough strength to vaporize mountains by waving, while also creating a bio-shield capable of preserving his and his fathers lives while he flew in the void of space from the rubble of his planet to another galaxy BILLIONS of light years away.


Now, give ONE example of durability from Saint Seiya that comes close to comparing to this, and I will say Goku gets his dick eaten in the durability department. Not to mention that even Vegeta in the Saiyan saga was a planet buster, with a power level of 12,000, while Frieza was at 120,000,000. Goku also fought on par with 70% power Bills, who can make entire universes vanish instantly just by getting angry.


Not to mention that Raditz with a power level of 1,000 was faster than light speed, and Goku is in the QUINTILLIONS at SSJ3, along with being able to move instantaneously, bypassing time, while being able to use that ability in battle as he has proven on multiple occasions, but usually not having to, as he is QUADRILLIONS of times faster than light speed.. Seiya gets his anus grilled in this one.

That's cool. Except the Gold Saints can launch universal level attacks. Three gold saints together can fire an Athena Exclamation, which was stated to be Big Bang level, and God Cloth Seiya curb stomped beings who curb stomped the Gold Saints. So Pegasus Seiya is at universe + in destructive power.


For durability, God Cloth Seiya held his own against Hades, who created a universe far larger than our own, and collapsed it in his dying breath. Now when has Goku ever shown universe + durability?


As for speed, even with just the bronze cloth, Seiya was travelling at 4 quintillion times the speed of light, as they crossed Hades's hyper dimension in minutes.

Gold cloth is shit loads faster than this, and God cloth is shitloads faster than even Gold cloth.

So let's look at what Seiya has:

Destructive capacity: Universe + (possibly higher)
Durability: Universe + (possibly higher)
Speed: Much faster than 4 quintillion times the speed of light (that was his speed in his MUCH MUCH weaker state)
Hax: Atomic destruction, telekinesis, can adapt to techniques after seeing it once, 8th sense to resurrect himself from the dead, and so on.




Now what does Goku have to beat that?

Originally posted by Bentley
Seiya is too fast for Goku and strong enough to deal heavy damage.

Even in comicbooks you'd be hardpressed to find characters faster than the high power Saints.

Except Flash, Wally solos the Gold Saints.



Lol Wally gets wrecked by the Gold Saints too.

Originally posted by AlphaVortex
Lol Wally gets wrecked by the Gold Saints too.



I was gonna reply to all the other non-sensical dribble that you idiotically wasted my time with, but this alone proves that you have no idea what the phuck you are talking about.

Btw, show a single universe+ feat in Seiya, if you can.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta


I was gonna reply to all the other non-sensical dribble that you idiotically wasted my time with, but this alone proves that you have no idea what the phuck you are talking about.

Btw, show a single universe+ feat in Seiya, if you can.


Sure.

Saints defeated Hades, and doing so destroyed Hades's universe, which was larger than the physical universe.

Are we really talking about God Cloth Seiya? Normal Pegasus Bronze Cloth? Sagitarius Gold Cloth?

If we are talking about the high end, Seiya rapes Goku.

Originally posted by trexalfa
Are we really talking about God Cloth Seiya? Normal Pegasus Bronze Cloth? Sagitarius Gold Cloth?

If we are talking about the high end, Seiya rapes Goku.


The image in the OP is God Cloth..........

Athena Exclamation was never survived by any character, it's heavily implied that Gold Saints could be easily erased by it (even if Shaka dodged it). That puts them at least under Galactic level.

Seiya is more of a speedester, Goku has been proved to be uber vulnerable when not using his ki. Anyone faster than Goku with decent offensive power has a play day with him for an easy win.