Top Marvel/DC Sky Fathers

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the Darkone
Top Marvel/DC Sky Fathers:
Death Gods and Demon Lords are permitted

SA Odin
PC Darkseid
Dormammu
Zeus
Dc Ares
Shazam
Neron
King Thor
Mephisto
High Father

janus77
Bruce Banner ...
Odin/Zeus
the rest.

Branlor Swift
Space Punisher is number 1
Then Odin and his equals (Zeus, Dormammu, Zelia)

Mshinu
Gamma Father
Odin
Celestials

Other riffraff

operator616
people who consider Zeus and Odin equals are wrong, Zeus was shown multiple times as thor's equal rather than Odin's

TheHulk
Originally posted by operator616
people who consider Zeus and Odin equals are wrong, Zeus was shown multiple times as thor's equal rather than Odin's Are you trying to call Zeus a high herald?

dynamix
Originally posted by TheHulk
Are you trying to call Zeus a high herald?

operator616
Originally posted by TheHulk
Are you trying to call Zeus a high herald?

he is, unless you can show me proof that Zeus is actually on odin's level (galaxy busting feats), which im pretty sure there isn't.

armedforbattle
.

Branlor Swift
Originally posted by Mshinu
riffraff m3gRH-hPS9I

TheHulk
Originally posted by operator616
he is, unless you can show me proof that Zeus is actually on odin's level (galaxy busting feats), which im pretty sure there isn't. I don't need to prove anything,as this shit for a post just proved you don't belong here....unless you learn.

operator616
Originally posted by TheHulk
I don't need to prove anything,as this shit for a post just proved you don't belong here....unless you learn.

dont make accusations if you're the one who's uneducated here.

well, in one issue it took Zeus months for him to beat thor.

in another issue thor also gave him a good fight.

even his famous beating up the hulk, hulk allowed it to happen.

TheHulk
Originally posted by operator616
dont make accusations if you're the one who's uneducated here.

well, in one issue it took Zeus months for him to beat thor.

in another issue thor also gave him a good fight.

even his famous beating up the hulk, hulk allowed it to happen. no I'm literally shaking my head...

operator616
Originally posted by TheHulk
no I'm literally shaking my head...

how can i post scans of this website, so i could provide proof?

TheHulk
Originally posted by operator616
how can i post scans of this website, so i could provide proof? PM a mod for instructions...in fact PM,Pr and ask him about the Zeus thing and let's see what happens

lawest9
Originally posted by operator616
he is, unless you can show me proof that Zeus is actually on odin's level (galaxy busting feats), which im pretty sure there isn't. Odin's galaxy busting feats are really beyond a skyfathers status, meaning he may have been at least at one time on a much higher level.

the Darkone
Odin and Zeus are peers, in Thor Annual 5 they were consider equals. Zeus was fighting Thor but was holding back against Thor, if a sky father wanted to kill a herald level being they can.

It was Odin, Zeus and Vishnu that faced the Celestial Arishem, these three are consider the top sky fathers of Earth.

yaadaveyaa
i def do not think zeus and odin r peers in marvel odin is more powerful but zeus is not a high herald thats just silly to say he handled one of the strongest versions of the hulk like a child

Horrificus
Originally posted by TheHulk
no I'm literally shaking my head... Somebody likes the way Horrificus writes his posts. smile

Kudos to you buddy. You continue to educate the man.

Horrificus
Originally posted by lawest9
Odin's galaxy busting feats are really beyond a skyfathers status, meaning he may have been at least at one time on a much higher level. This is true.

The Higher Level feats of both Odin and Thor, regardless of what low-ballers have been spouting, have pushed them out of the Skyfather and High-Herald brackets.

Sure, it's easy to find low showings for both. But, the higher-end showings are ridiculous. There is no denying that.

This is why they are such a pain to debate FOR. Especially Thor.

Anybody for new rules? big grin

753
zeus is a skyfather. I'm glad, that's settled now.

operator616
Originally posted by Horrificus
This is true.

The Higher Level feats of both Odin and Thor, regardless of what low-ballers have been spouting, have pushed them out of the Skyfather and High-Herald brackets.

Sure, it's easy to find low showings for both. But, the higher-end showings are ridiculous. There is no denying that.

This is why they are such a pain to debate FOR. Especially Thor.

Anybody for new rules? big grin

no, odin affecting the entire multiverse as a result of his battle with set is outside skyfather status and pure PIS.

most of the people here put zeus at Odin's level just because he is a skyfather (yet his feats are far far below odin's). not just that but also Zeus beating hulk (in which hulk allowed himself to lose btw but people dont realize that) somehow puts Zeus at odin's level as well.

now i dont have anything against Zeus, if people could provide feats for him on odin's level i will be glad to accept them, but going by facts and feats (from what i know), he isn't.

carver9
Majority of the fight, if not all of it between Zeus and Thor took place off panel. No one can provide scans of what happened during their scuffle.

operator616
Originally posted by carver9
Majority of the fight, if not all of it between Zeus and Thor took place off panel. No one can provide scans of what happened during their scuffle.

completely false, the fight was about 10 scans or so.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Zeus is a Skyfather and got a bit of a push when Pak was handling him so hopefully he'll be more respected from here on forward. Still, he's no Odin. Even his other Skyfather level associates like Dormammu haven't been respected as much as the All-Father (The recent X-men issue is just ugh, feel bad for the flame head).

Odin isn't as high up the food chain as he originally was but he's aged a lot better than some of the other Skyfather level beings. So much so, you could probably make a new tier for Odin etc., one that exists between Skyfathers and the true Cosmics.

Branlor Swift
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Zeus is a Skyfather and got a bit of a push when Pak was handling him so hopefully he'll be more respected from here on forward. Still, he's no Odin. Even his other Skyfather level associates like Dormammu haven't been respected as much as the All-Father (The recent X-men issue is just ugh, feel bad for the flame head).

Odin isn't as high up the food chain as he originally was but he's aged a lot better than some of the other Skyfather level beings. So much so, you could probably make a new tier for Odin etc., one that exists between Skyfathers and the true Cosmics. Interesting note since you reminded me of it, but Mephisto has been wrecking Hell Lords in the X-Factor crossover.
Talking about pushes, Mephisto has certainly got one these last 5 or so years.

And Dorm has always had shit feats mixed in with super high feats. His high feats make abstracts jealous, and his low feats make Rhino laugh.

lol at not as high up. His feats since he's come back are borderline retarded.

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Odin isn't as high up the food chain as he originally was
I'd like to know what makes you think that, as Fraction's take on the character certainly doesn't suggest that.

the Darkone
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
I'd like to know what makes you think that, as Fraction's take on the character certainly doesn't suggest that.

I think he's talking about how Odin was portrayed in Silver Age,where he was the cream of of the crop next to Galactus. Ans what Roy Thomas did to Odin when the Celestial were introduce basically screwed him, you know as I do Odin feats alone trumps majority of the cosmic hierarchy.

Marvel has been wanking sky father and above far to long!!

TheGodKiller
^I figured. Which doesn't answer my question exactly, because such a notion is based on one presuming that Fraction's run did not give Odin feats that rivaled his classic showings, or ignoring said showings entirely.

Mr Master
===================

Odin and Zeus are equals ... as are All true Sky-FatherS:

We see much more from Odin simply because
Asgard has always had far more play in stories.

===================


This is their only "confrontation" ... (mental kinda sizing up, they both walked away)

http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15762999_O_vs_Z1.jpg http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15763000_O_vs_Z2.jpg http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15763001_O_vs_Z3.jpg



Here ... is proof that other Sky-Fathers are Odin's "counter-parts"

http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15763003_O_vs_Z4.jpg
http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15763005_O_vs_Z5.jpg

They all have the same power source ... which is ... Humanity.

JakeTheBank
They confronted each other during Fear Itself.

They're equals in terms of how they're often portrayed, but it's true that Odin has the better and more numerous feats to call upon.

Branlor Swift
Zeus has smashed the Avengers before including Thor.
One stalemate in which it's purely Thor's feat doesn't bring him down to herald level.

Also lol at Hulk letting Zeus beat him.

operator616
Originally posted by Mr Master
===================

Odin and Zeus are equals ... as are All true Sky-FatherS:

We see much more from Odin simply because
Asgard has always had far more play in stories.

===================


This is their only "confrontation" ... (mental kinda sizing up, they both walked away)

http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15762999_O_vs_Z1.jpg http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15763000_O_vs_Z2.jpg http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15763001_O_vs_Z3.jpg



Here ... is proof that other Sky-Fathers are Odin's "counter-parts"

http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15763003_O_vs_Z4.jpg
http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15763005_O_vs_Z5.jpg

They all have the same power source ... which is ... Humanity.

this wasn't a fight at all nor does it prove that zeus and odin are equals. in fact, Zeus has many low showings and never had any high showings (unless you could provide us with.

basically your argument here is that since Zeus is a skyfather then he should be equal to odin, but that's not how it works, tyrant is a herald of galactus, is he not? but he's much more powerful than other heralds, so just because he has the title doesn't mean that he's on their level.

operator616
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
They confronted each other during Fear Itself.

They're equals in terms of how they're often portrayed, but it's true that Odin has the better and more numerous feats to call upon.

they confronted each other but they didn't fight.

not even close.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Zeus has smashed the Avengers before including Thor.
One stalemate in which it's purely Thor's feat doesn't bring him down to herald level.

Also lol at Hulk letting Zeus beat him.

thumb up

He wasn't trying to kill or even beat the shit out of Thor, either when Thor fought him.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by operator616
they confronted each other but they didn't fight.

not even close.

They're portrayed as equals nearly every time they're in the same story. This isn't opinion. The intent from virtually every writer from Stan Lee to Dan Jurgens to Kieron Gillen is that for all intents and purposes, Zeus and Odin are equals. I'd suggest getting over it.

Outside of the stories where they're compared or treated or stated as equals, Odin has the more numerous and better feats.

operator616
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
thumb up

He wasn't trying to kill or even beat the shit out of Thor, either when Thor fought him.

didn't seem that case to me, he clearly was fighting with some effort in both fights.

not that all this matters since Zeus doesn't even have close feats to Odin, he doesn't even have planet level feats. im not trying to undermine him or anything, im going by facts and what was shown on panel, if someone is willing to provide feats i'll gladly accept them.

operator616
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
They're portrayed as equals nearly every time they're in the same story. This isn't opinion. The intent from virtually every writer from Stan Lee to Dan Jurgens to Kieron Gillen is that for all intents and purposes, Zeus and Odin are equals. I'd suggest getting over it.

Outside of the stories where they're compared or treated or stated as equals, Odin has the more numerous and better feats.

completely true, they're treated as equals, yet for some weird reason, Zeus seems much weaker based on feats.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by operator616
didn't seem that case to me, he clearly was fighting with some effort in both fights.

not that all this matters since Zeus doesn't even have close feats to Odin, he doesn't even have planet level feats. im not trying to undermine him or anything, im going by facts and what was shown on panel, if someone is willing to provide feats i'll gladly accept them.

He was testing Thor. If he wanted to maim or kill Thor, he could have.

By fact and on panel evidence, Zeus is treated as an equal to Odin and has been for decades and by virtually every writer who ever penned either character. You can throw all that out and shout "feats!" if you like, but it wouldn't make sense.

bbrem123
dormammu
everybody else

Sundipped
Tyrant is no less than high skyfather. Calling him herald level is a slap in the face.

operator616
Originally posted by Sundipped
Tyrant is no less than high skyfather. Calling him herald level is a slap in the face.

dude, you misunderstood my post.

i said that tyrant holds the TITLE herald, i never stated that his power is at herald level.

so zeus holding the title skyfather means as much as tyrant holding the title herald.

Sundipped
^
Thing is, that's not his title.

operator616
Originally posted by Sundipped
^
Thing is, that's not his title.

whom are you talking about?

Sundipped
^Tyrant.

operator616
Originally posted by Sundipped
^Tyrant.

he is a herald of galactus.....

Sundipped
Originally posted by operator616
he is a herald of galactus.....

No he's not. He never searched for planets for Galactus. In fact it caused him pain whenever G consumed a world. He's on another level.
Tyrant>>>>>>>>>>>>Red Shift/Firelord/Surfer/Morg/Terrax/Frankie/Stardust

Branlor Swift
no he isn't

he was created to be a friend

Mr Master
^^ Sun and Bran ... thumb up

Lots of funny claims coming from the new ...

operator616
he didn't search for the planets since their relationship wasn't good in all his appearances.

^i may be new to the threads but im not new to comics, im not an idiot. and instead of making such pointless claims show us proof that Zeus is in fact on Odin's level.

TheLordofMurder
NM

curryman
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
no he isn't

he was created to be a friend

lmao, Galactus made himself a friend.

Branlor Swift
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Heralds/Tyrant/Tyrant-22-23.jpg

the Darkone
Originally posted by operator616
he is a herald of galactus.....

No he is not, he was created to be a companion/son. Tyrant is no herald, Sky Father level yes when he was depowered, and some what equal at his peak.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Mr Master
They all have the same power source ... which is ... Humanity.

Outdated and at this point, pretty much untrue. Asgardians predate humanity. Not sure about the rest of the Gods.

Also, Odin is and always will be the greatest Skyfather. Thomas wanted to fit everything into a neat little hierarchy but f*ck that shit. With that logic, Hercules should be every bit as powerful as Thor or something.

Mr Master
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

Outdated and at this point, pretty much untrue.
Asgardians predate humanity. Not sure about the rest of the Gods.

Thomas wanted to fit everything into a neat little hierarchy but f*ck that shit.

With that logic
It's kinda strange cause they should've pre-dated them in that issue likewise.
Although that's another matter and isn't central to the main point here.

Anyway,
I was just posting one of the few instances the whole gang united.

They were all equals. (as they were during Marvel: The End) 2003

If it's "outdated" that's another issue.

I wouldn't mind seeing what new On Panel depiction cements Odin > other Sky-Fathers.

So I'm sure you have the scans and/or issue #s
where Thomas' portrayal (seems the Marvel consensus) is debunked.

I'll post them for ya if you don't have the scans. (need #s though)

This way we can be sure for ever more what the actual facts are.

operator616
^marvel the end isn't canon it's from earth/universe 4321

the Darkone
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Outdated and at this point, pretty much untrue. Asgardians predate humanity. Not sure about the rest of the Gods.

Also, Odin is and always will be the greatest Skyfather. Thomas wanted to fit everything into a neat little hierarchy but f*ck that shit. With that logic, Hercules should be every bit as powerful as Thor or something.

I agree, I can see bring in new blood but dont outright devalue other characters for the sake of the new one, to me that's a b***h move.

Branlor Swift
Originally posted by operator616
^marvel the end isn't canon it's from earth/universe 4321 Scan?

Because it's canon to 616 Warlock, and Thanos' mini which directly flows into Annihilation and that involves a lot of characters. As does Thanos' mini.

Mr Master
^^ ... thumb up

Originally posted by operator616

^marvel the end isn't canon it's from earth/universe 4321
Marvel The End is 100% Canon!

The central part of the story takes place withIN 616.

Reality 4321, is one of 616 past Timelines, the year 1331.

(Where AK was from ... and Horus as well)

This Reality 4321 was depicted only a few times in issues #1 & 2
when referencing Akhenaten's past. In fact, Doom travelled to this Past Timeline.

But other than that, and Thanos explaining the Cosmic Vortex,
all of issue #1 to the end was shot in 616.

Thanos even continued to absorb All of Time-Space from withIN 616,
AFTER absorbing the embodiment of the entire 616 Universe. (Eternity/Infinity)

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Mr Master
It's kinda strange cause they should've pre-dated them in that issue likewise.
Although that's another matter and isn't central to the main point here.

Anyway,
I was just posting one of the few instances the whole gang united.

They were all equals. (as they were during Marvel: The End) 2003

If it's "outdated" that's another issue.

I wouldn't mind seeing what new On Panel depiction cements Odin > other Sky-Fathers.

So I'm sure you have the scans and/or issue #s
where Thomas' portrayal (seems the Marvel consensus) is debunked.

I'll post them for ya if you don't have the scans. (need #s though)

This way we can be sure for ever more what the actual facts are.

Yea that shit was stupid. Thank god Simonson (The next long term writer) immediately cast doubt on that whole retcon. All the Demuirge stuff was stupid.

I don't believe Odin summoning a council of the God heads mean they're all equals. Nor do I thing Zeus blasting Thanos along with Galactus and other Cosmics cements him as their equal. I do admit that the last one idicates some sort of "peerness" etc. but not conclusive enough to sway me in a fight for example. The council is utterly meaningless however, Balder was on it. You just have to be the head of a pantheon, you don't have to meet a sort of standard of power.

What portrayal? Odin being above Zeus conclusively or Asgardians predating man?

Mr Master
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

Yea that shit was stupid. Thank god Simonson (The next long term
writer) immediately cast doubt on that whole retcon. All the Demuirge
stuff was stupid.

I don't believe Odin summoning a council of the God heads mean
they're all equals. Nor do I thing Zeus blasting Thanos along with
Galactus and other Cosmics cements him as their equal.

I do admit
that the last one idicates some sort of "peerness" etc. but not
conclusive enough to sway me in a fight for example. The council is
utterly meaningless however, Balder was on it. You just have to be
the head of a pantheon, you don't have to meet a sort of standard of
power.
Fair points.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

What portrayal?

Odin being above Zeus conclusively

or Asgardians predating man?
Well I know Odin was even portrayed as the creator of humanity,
so I'm guessing that idea is out there.

I'm more interested in Odin > other Sky-Fathers (particularly pantheons)

I know Odin may have better feats,
but it's not like the other FatherS have had ample opportunities to show their stuff.

I mean, even Zeus is limited in appearances,
in comparison with Odin even jokingly so.

So I need some kind of indicative statement or even a strong allusion
that suggests this.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Mr Master
Fair points.

Well I know Odin was even portrayed as the creator of humanity,
so I'm guessing that idea is out there.

I'm more interested in Odin > other Sky-Fathers (particularly pantheons)

I know Odin may have better feats,
but it's not like the other FatherS have had ample opportunities to show their stuff.

I mean, even Zeus is limited in appearances,
in comparison with Odin even jokingly so.

So I need some kind of indicative statement or even a strong allusion
that suggests this.

Yes. Odin predating not only humanity, but even the current Universe was heavily suggested during Fraction's run.

Well then, the burden would be on you to prove that Zeus and the others are conclusively on Odin's level, not on me. I can simply post a high end feat from Odin and you wouldn't be able to match it for Zeus.

Mr Master
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

Well then, the burden would be on you to prove that Zeus and
the others are conclusively on Odin's level, not on me. I can simply
post a high end feat from Odin and you wouldn't be able to match it for Zeus.
The best I've portrayal I have that equates him with the "Odin-power" is from The End arc.

I'm not sure if you'll accept that since it's King Thor/Odinforce and not Odin himself,
but Starlin had Zeus being pretty badass in that story,
or as badass as he could be considering lol.


Ok, so This is King Thor possessing the OdinPower:



------------------------------


King Thor seeks help from his peer ... Zeus:



-----------------------------


Zeus bfrs himself and KT to another Dimension outside the Olympus plane:

http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15764084_OD4.jpg

(Zeus seeks help from their other peers)

-----------------------------


Thanos and Zeus allude to everyone in this Dimension being the same (including Thor)



-----------------------------


This scene imo depicts the true Sky-Fathers of Pantheons (including KT) as equals:

http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15764086_OD6.jpg

-----------------------------


Shortly after Akhenaten obliterates Heremheb's actual spirit:




AK also attacks the Sky-FatherS themselves, and annihilates them all,
except for Zeus and King Thor ... because Zeus bfr'd their butts out of there at the last second:





... I guess not the biggest deal, but he saved OdinForce empowered Thor.

-----------------------------


When Zeus and KT come to, (they were both k.o'd even escaping)

We notice it wasn't a desperate act by Zeus,
in fact he bfr'd himself right to Eternity/Infinity's Dimension:

http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15764090_OD10.jpg http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15764091_OD11.jpg

Not bad,
while all the other Sky-FatherS couldn't react fast enough (including KT)
Zeus did, and with precision at that.

-----------------------------


When the LT called the Cosmic tuff guys to battle against Thanos,
Zeus and Thor were representing the PantheonS:

http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15764092_OD12.jpghttp://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15764093_OD13.jpg


-----------------------------


Zeus told Captain Marvel to stay back, while he and big boys handle business:

http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15764094_OD14.jpg

This scene compliments Zeus imo. (never mind the stompage afterwards, but the moment)


=======================================


I think that's the best Zeus portrayal I'll be able to find.

It still isn't much really,
but it does imo
strongly allude to the idea that Zeus is equal to the Odinpower wielded by King Thor.

operator616
since nobody here is going to accept the bios, i'll post a link about tom brevoort confirming marvel the end is non canon.

http://www.formspring.me/TomBrevoort/q/418415226996671175

so? i guess i was right after all.

Mr Master
^^ While we appreciate your efforts ... not really.

Ol' "Tommy's" word on some site isn't going to trump On Panel truth
supported by official handbooks.

---------------------------------------------



Thanos absorbed everything while standing withIN the 616 Universe.

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/687657_At1.jpg

http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/15766276_Atleza1.jpg

http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/15766277_Atleza2.jpg

"You & Gamora were outside This Reality,
tending Atleza, this Actuality's Cosmic Anchor"

.......................................................................................


Atleza is the Cosmic Anchor of the Universe Thnaos was standing in.

Now, what Universe does Atleza Anchor?

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/687656_End2.jpg

Atleza

History: ... A succession of beings
have secured Earth-616's Reality's proper place within the cosmic vortex...

Occupation: Anchor of Earth-616's Reality.

.......................................................................................



Thanos 616 and his involvement in Marvel: The End:

THOTI and all that jazz:

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/687718_thoti.jpg

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/687719_thoti2.jpg

(official Marvel Handbook - 2006 - Thanos bio)


..........................................................................


Here's Thanos' 2008 bio: (at the bottom)


http://www.marvel.com/universe/Thanos (coming to Handbooks this year)

" ... Known as the Heart of the Universe,
from which all energy physical and metaphysical emanates,
and thereby gained infinite power ...

... Thanos decided that the true sign of his ultimate power,
would be to destroy the universe
and become the One true Supreme Being ... "

-----------------------------------------------------------


Continues below ...

Mr Master
-------------------------------------------------------


(Marvel: The End #6)

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/687726_616.jpg http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/687727_616-0.jpg http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/687728_616-00.jpg


Now .... 616 Thanos, in 616 Thanos' own 616 series,
explaining exactly what happened to him right above:


(Thanos #1)

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/687729_616-1.jpg

The artist even goes out of his way to make the scenes identical.

.........................................................................



Thanos literally mentions the Heart of the Infinite in his 616 series:


.........................................................................


Thanos #1

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/687730_Th2.jpg

.........................................................................


Just like Thanos recounted key moments of his 616 experiences during the End:

Marvel: The End #5

http://s2d1.turboimagehost.com/t/687731_th1.jpg

==============================


When ol "Tommy" commands one of his writers to make a retcon
and it's illustrated On Panel, and hopefully backed by bios,
then we'll say it's anything other than 100% canon!

operator616
^
you clearly didn't read the link i posted. Read it, brevoort said that it's non canon regardless of what was mentioned in thanos 1 or any other bio.
i appreciate the evidence you put together but it's coming from brevoort's mouth.

the reasons it was mentioned in thanos 1 is that starlin (who wrote marvel the end) thought it was canon when in fact it's not.

operator616
giving you the evidence that starlin thought it was canon:
http://www.adelaidecomicsandbooks.com/starlin.html

read the first reply of starlin, he clearly thinks it canon, as he thinks that after marvel: the end it will be a starting point for thanos (which is why it was mentioned in thanos 1). Sadly it's not.

zopzop
Originally posted by Mr Master
===================

Odin and Zeus are equals ... as are All true Sky-FatherS:

We see much more from Odin simply because
Asgard has always had far more play in stories.

===================


This is their only "confrontation" ... (mental kinda sizing up, they both walked away)

http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15762999_O_vs_Z1.jpg http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15763000_O_vs_Z2.jpg http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15763001_O_vs_Z3.jpg



Here ... is proof that other Sky-Fathers are Odin's "counter-parts"

http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15763003_O_vs_Z4.jpg
http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15763005_O_vs_Z5.jpg

They all have the same power source ... which is ... Humanity.
thumb up

Mr Master

operator616
^
are you serious? some name/avatar in a site? please, seeing how you are a very knowledgeable guy you should know better than that.

you misunderstood me here, i never stated that all of these are non canon, i only said that at the time it was thought that marvel the end is canon, that's why there are references to it.

i realize when the interview was made. And again you misunderstood me here, the underlined part was my entire point that starlin thought it was canon.

and i dont see how you last point proves anything, nothing mentioned there proves that it's canon.

fact is, we have tom brevoort, the chief marvel editor state that it's non canon regardless of the bios and everything else, because honestly, there has been evidence that marvel the end is canon, and there has been evidence that it was non canon, the only way to be sure is to get the opinion of the editor, in which he replied it was non canon regardless of the bios, which makes sense, since all the end comics are non canon.

Mr Master
^^ Yea, I'm dead serious.

There is absolutely zero/no evidence of any kind On Panel or Handbooks,
that even slightly alludes to The End being "non-canon."

It's only that name/avatar at that site claiming this.

Simple.

If you have something/anything (on panel or handbooks) that even suggests it's "non-canon"
we'll discuss this further.

Until then, nothing's gonna change in this forum.


PS. I. nor anyone else, should have to investigate internet forums,
or sites of any kind to know what's happening in the comics themselves.

In Marvel Comics (on panel) and in their Official Handbooks,
Marvel The End, is 100% Canon! (as proven on this page conclusively)

... fin ...

operator616
Originally posted by Mr Master
^^ Yea, I'm dead serious.

There is absolutely zero/no evidence of any kind On Panel or Handbooks,
that even slightly alludes to The End being "non-canon."

It's only that name/avatar at that site claiming this.

Simple.

If you have something/anything (on panel or handbooks) that even suggests it's "non-canon"
we'll discuss this further.

Until then, nothing's gonna change in this forum.


PS. I. nor anyone else, should have to investigate internet forums,
or sites of any kind to know what's happening in the comics themselves.

In Marvel Comics (on panel) and in their Official Handbooks,
Marvel The End, is 100% Canon! (as proven on this page conclusively)

... fin ...

there is evidence:

http://oi44.tinypic.com/30j0jfn.jpg

so now we have 2 pieces of evidence, one stating it's canon the other non canon. and in that case im going with the words of marvel's editor, it's that simple. Regardless of what you might think, i want this to be canon (it was a great story arc) but im just going by the facts.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Mr Master
The best I've portrayal I have that equates him with the "Odin-power" is from The End arc.

I'm not sure if you'll accept that since it's King Thor/Odinforce and not Odin himself,
but Starlin had Zeus being pretty badass in that story,
or as badass as he could be considering lol.


Ok, so This is King Thor possessing the OdinPower:



------------------------------


King Thor seeks help from his peer ... Zeus:



-----------------------------


Zeus bfrs himself and KT to another Dimension outside the Olympus plane:

http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15764084_OD4.jpg

(Zeus seeks help from their other peers)

-----------------------------


Thanos and Zeus allude to everyone in this Dimension being the same (including Thor)



-----------------------------


This scene imo depicts the true Sky-Fathers of Pantheons (including KT) as equals:

http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15764086_OD6.jpg

-----------------------------


Shortly after Akhenaten obliterates Heremheb's actual spirit:




AK also attacks the Sky-FatherS themselves, and annihilates them all,
except for Zeus and King Thor ... because Zeus bfr'd their butts out of there at the last second:





... I guess not the biggest deal, but he saved OdinForce empowered Thor.

-----------------------------


When Zeus and KT come to, (they were both k.o'd even escaping)

We notice it wasn't a desperate act by Zeus,
in fact he bfr'd himself right to Eternity/Infinity's Dimension:

http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15764090_OD10.jpg http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15764091_OD11.jpg

Not bad,
while all the other Sky-FatherS couldn't react fast enough (including KT)
Zeus did, and with precision at that.

-----------------------------


When the LT called the Cosmic tuff guys to battle against Thanos,
Zeus and Thor were representing the PantheonS:

http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15764092_OD12.jpghttp://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15764093_OD13.jpg


-----------------------------


Zeus told Captain Marvel to stay back, while he and big boys handle business:

http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15764094_OD14.jpg

This scene compliments Zeus imo. (never mind the stompage afterwards, but the moment)


=======================================


I think that's the best Zeus portrayal I'll be able to find.

It still isn't much really,
but it does imo
strongly allude to the idea that Zeus is equal to the Odinpower wielded by King Thor.

True it's not much but it is Zeus' greatest portrayal overall, maybe not his greatest showing in raw power (He didn't actually do anything) but that was arguably his most competent showing.

Zeus at times has been unstable, erratic and a bit foolhardy. Even downright crazy/evil once or twice. Personally I blame Odin, he's the leader, if he was around it would probably be Odin accomplishing everything and dragging Zeus along.

Definitely a possibility, although I'd give King Thor the edge over Zeus in a fight even if the Olympian had the power edge (At the end there, I doubt that was the case however). I don't see him beating Odin at all however.

Mr Master
^^ thumb up I respect your thoughts.

btw. I never suggested Zeus was > Thor in the story,
I still stand by the portrayal being that of equals.

*edit ... Zeus had more experience as a pantheon monarch
this is why he was taking the lead.

Mr Master
Originally posted by operator616
there is evidence:

http://oi44.tinypic.com/30j0jfn.jpg

so now we have 2 pieces of evidence, one stating it's canon the other
non canon. and in that case im going with the words of marvel's
editor, it's that simple. Regardless of what you might think, i want this
to be canon (it was a great story arc) but im just going by the facts.
no expression ... Where's it stated in that bio excerpt that Marvel The End is non-canon?

Are you toying with me?

operator616
Originally posted by Mr Master
no expression ... Where's it stated in that bio excerpt that Marvel The End is non-canon?

Are you toying with me?

it states that the events happened in reality 4321 which means it's non canon

Mr Master
Originally posted by operator616

it states that the events happened in reality 4321 which means it's non canon
Actually it doesn't say that at all.

It says Akhenaten came from and was abducted in Reality 4321,
which is true.

But that took place in the Past!

While in the Present, it was the 616 Reality in affect.

Or were you under the impression that Spiderman
and the rest of the heroes took on AK on some desert in Ancient Egypt?

No, it was on Present day Earth Reality 616, not in the year 1331!

Mr Master
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Heralds/Tyrant/Tyrant-22-23.jpg
Haven't read that in a while, still lovely.

Mr Master
Originally posted by operator616

it states that the events happened in reality 4321 which means it's non canon
I think I should respond to this more thoroughly to avoid confusion and here-say.

That excerpt is from the Marvel Handbooks: Akhenaten bio - 2006.



Reality 4321, is one of 616 Past Timelines, the year 1331:

.............................................................................


4321 was depicted in Marvel: The End in a few panels in issue 1 - 3,
when flashbacks on Akhenaten's history was explained,
also when Doom went there via Time Machine,
and when Thanos stomped him in that Past Timeline.

4321 concerns Akhenaten's origin in specific,

HE came from Reality 4321, not the Arc itself.

..............................................................................................................


Doom uses his Time Machine to reach the Timeline Aknehaten is from (4321)

(these links below further strengthen this Fact/Truth)










But in plain english as well:

http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15769009_Past5.jpg

http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15769010_Past6.jpg

"I depart the Present" (616) "and return to when Aknehaten was but a mere Mortal"

(in reality 4321 which is a Past Timeline of the 616 Reality)


That's right!

http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15769011_Past7.jpg

"Traveling through Time"

..............................................................................................................


Here Akhenaten guards his mortal form in Reality 4321 (a Past Timeline of 616)

http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15769012_Past8.jpg

"Did you believe I would leave my Past unguarded"

"And so History continued unchanged, under the watchful eye of it's dark guardian"

..............................................................................................................


Here Akhenaten states,
that the Celestial Order,
ventured into different Realities/Timelines to find him and others:



"Through Time and Space they searched for their chosen few"

..............................................................................................................


If the Celestial Order was crossing Time & Space,

then they were visiting Timelines, which are Realities/Universes of their own.

No wonder Akhenaten's Santuary was a "Blending of UniverseS"

Galan007
Originally posted by Galan007
From Thanos' 2003 mini:
http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/11562172_t0.jpg http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/11562341_t7.jpg

From Thanos' 2006 OHOTMU bio:
http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/11562176_t1.jpg

From Eternity's 2006 OHOTMU bio:
http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/11562181_t3.jpg

From Living Tribunal's 2006 OHOTMU bio:
http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/11562184_t4.jpg

From Inifnity's 2006 OHOTMU bio:
http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/11562187_t5.jpg

From Master Order & Lord Chaos' 2007 OHOTMU bio:
http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/11562179_t2.jpg

From the 2010 Thanos Sourcebook:
http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/11562190_t6.jpg


Everything pertinent is outlined in red. Marvel: The End is as canon as it gets.

Mr Master
^^ thumb up If only we'd luv each other, we'd be unstoppable! stick out tongue laughing out loud

operator616
^^good posts from both of you. Im willing to accept the evidence provided at hand, though im still confused why brevoort would post such a reply.

Mr Master
^^ Welcome to KMC! friend. smile

We're all better off sticking to comics (on panel action/statements)
and if backed by bios then even better.

operator616
thank you.

yes, i know.

Branlor Swift
Brevoort likes to piss off fans. And his opinion is worthless 100% of the time.

Colossus-Big C
Originally posted by Mr Master
===================

Odin and Zeus are equals ... as are All true Sky-FatherS:

We see much more from Odin simply because
Asgard has always had far more play in stories.

===================


This is their only "confrontation" ... (mental kinda sizing up, they both walked away)

http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15762999_O_vs_Z1.jpg http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15763000_O_vs_Z2.jpg http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15763001_O_vs_Z3.jpg



Here ... is proof that other Sky-Fathers are Odin's "counter-parts"

http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15763003_O_vs_Z4.jpg
http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15763005_O_vs_Z5.jpg

They all have the same power source ... which is ... Humanity. they confronted in fear itself

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/8/83594/2030702-zeus_and_odin.jpg


Wasnt a long fight but the "earth trembled beneath them" according to mephisto

Mr Master
^^ Luv that splash ...

Haven't read that, what was the outcome?

operator616
^it wasn't a fight, just an argument.

the Darkone
Originally posted by operator616
^it wasn't a fight, just an argument.

It was a brief fight and argument end of story, Zeus and Odin are peers by feats yes Odin is superior to Zeus, but Zeus is still a sky father.

Colossus-Big C
A Severely Depowered Zeus (without his skyfather power) One Shots A Being Who Was Fighting Both Thor And Hercules

The guy who was one shotted broke thors arm in an earlier incounter and nearly killed him (thors first fight with him in an old thor comic)

Originally posted by SuperiorTech
Kid Zeus - Weather Control

http://thumbnails21.imagebam.com/5275/e6007252745233.gifhttp://thumbnails20.imagebam.com/5275/90020f52743715.gifhttp://thumbnails21.imagebam.com/5275/e1c2e352743718.gifhttp://thumbnails21.imagebam.com/5275/1e6bf952744076.gif

-------------------------------------------------------------

http://thumbnails21.imagebam.com/5275/413ba952744987.gifhttp://thumbnails21.imagebam.com/5275/6c367752744988.gifhttp://thumbnails21.imagebam.com/5275/0d52be52744990.gifhttp://thumbnails20.imagebam.com/5275/c1080752744991.gif

--------------------------------------------------------------

http://thumbnails21.imagebam.com/5275/2f72cf52745692.gif Zeus Mindrapes Marvel Earth


http://thumbnails32.imagebam.com/13587/37b798135860136.jpg

psycho gundam
magik might beat all their asses these days:

http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/th_1-5_zps9c628609.jpg http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/th_2-3_zpsccfcbf89.jpg http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/th_3-2_zps01230463.jpg http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/th_4-3_zps8906f25a.jpg http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/th_5-2_zps4fcfd1f3.jpg http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/th_6-2_zps0acbd9b7.jpg http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/th_7-2_zps659ba96f.jpg http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/th_8_zps8cce2df6.jpg

oneshots dormammu

Rage.Of.Olympus
Yea, Dormammu has some shitty lows man.

Branlor Swift
Dorm's lucky he has those Eternity feats.

operator616
Originally posted by the Darkone
It was a brief fight and argument end of story, Zeus and Odin are peers by feats yes Odin is superior to Zeus, but Zeus is still a sky father.

no it wasn't, just before that scan it was stated that all comers have to come in peace otherwise the living tribunal will intervene, so you are wrong, it wasn't even a brief fight.

However, given how marvel the end is canon now, Zeus should be pretty close to odin.

Sundipped
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Dorm's lucky he has those Eternity feats.

Well he did punk all the Hell Lords in that Hellcat mini.

nwg202
Originally posted by psycho gundam
magik might beat all their asses these days:

http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/th_1-5_zps9c628609.jpg http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/th_2-3_zpsccfcbf89.jpg http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/th_3-2_zps01230463.jpg http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/th_4-3_zps8906f25a.jpg http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/th_5-2_zps4fcfd1f3.jpg http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/th_6-2_zps0acbd9b7.jpg http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/th_7-2_zps659ba96f.jpg http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/th_8_zps8cce2df6.jpg

oneshots dormammu

She actually has a pretty good track record vs really powerful characters. Mephisto, Belasco, Legion, Strange, Amora, Demon Colossus, etc...most of those wins are one shots. A lot of the Hell lords worry about her

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