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Silver Surfer is now willing to utilize all his abilities and the Power Cosmics nearly limitless resources to screw with Thor in this death battle, speedblitz, all out, full knowledge, lethal intent on both sides.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbplmkxtqF1r76txgo1_400.gif

Time to go into warrior madness

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/ThorvsSilverSurfer2fight12.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/ThorvsSilverSurfer2fight13.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/ThorvsSilverSurfer2fight14.jpg

Thor SMASH!

I feel like surfer has the abilities to do it. But there history says otherwise.

http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/g340/Fernando072295/prv9601_pg3_zpsde626114.jpg
http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/g340/Fernando072295/prv9601_pg4_zps63ca5e0f.jpg

Thor might as well have let Surfer hit him with those blasts up top. http://images.killermovies.com/forums/customsmilies/he.gif

Thor massacres the poor guy. He does has a good matchup against Surfer imo.

First scan Thor is in Warrior Madness, second Surfer is holding back big time, trying to find out information.

It was just a psychotic Thor and I'm sure he was holding back tremendously when he spit out "are you finished?!??!?!??!?!!?" and blasted Thor in the face.

http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/7828/38901998.jpg

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/3412/85550918.jpg

ha-som

Oh boy.

There's like a 2 percent chance this stays open past 4 pages

Mhmm.

Originally posted by abhilegend

ha-som

I remember back on the Marvel Boards when someone believed that proved Surfer could one shot kill Thor. Too bad in the same comic Thor was hit in the back by Surfer (Actually intending to put him out) only for a temporary knockout. And no, not relevant either because there was an energy drain systematically depowering the heroes I believe. Which now that I think about, had Thor exposed to it the longest IIRC, been a while.

Originally posted by Dolos
First scan Thor is in Warrior Madness, second Surfer is holding back big time, trying to find out information.

No and no.

Lol.

So is Surfer the only one who's been given "Forum Mode" powers or does Thor have that benefit, too?

Hmm Thor>Surfer. But with Surfer doing all he can and I know we ain't debating powersets but if he truly uses his abilites at his best. Black hole to the head 10/10 before Thor can use his hammer throw or Godblast.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
We have an old saying in Singapore.


Say to me, Say to yourself.......in this case,Laugh at me,Laugh at yourself Jake.

I assumed you were joking, hence I laughed.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I assumed you were joking, hence I laughed. I do not know what to say....

1.You thought it really was a joke.

2.You thought my post was so funny and stupid that you thought it as a joke for a post.

3. You found my non-joke post,simply funny.

#1 is correct.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
#1 is correct. Than I am laughing to myself

there's a thousand threads with this fight already, but before this one gets closed, SS wins imo 6/10.

Mjolnir is a formdable weapon. I think Thor has better chances of winning this.

Historically, I think Thor has more wins.

In Stan's hierarchy Thor is slightly above SS.

But a very close fight that could go either way, unfortunatelly for SS there is more evidence pointing at Thor having the advantage here.

But is understandable and very pausible that SS could win.

Thor

Thor 7/10 imho

Thor.

Post upgrade I'd give the nod to Surfer. He held his own while in reasoning doormat mode against Thor the last time.

In direct confrontation, Thor has always had the better showings against Surfer, except for their last fight, which ended in stalemate (imho). Also, Surfer has always done way better than Thor against (pre-WB) Hulk.

They're both heavily CIS-inflicted characters, and so closely matched, it could go either way at this point.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/ThorvsSilverSurfer2fight12.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/ThorvsSilverSurfer2fight13.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/ThorvsSilverSurfer2fight14.jpg

Thor SMASH!

That was SS at his worst and dumbest ever. He couldn't even hit Thor with a blast floating still in space. He didn't use his superior speed and reflexes over Thor either.
That fight holds no water when considering Surfer is fighting at his best (as shown before).

Surfer wins this solidly.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/ThorvsSilverSurfer2fight12.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/ThorvsSilverSurfer2fight13.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/ThorvsSilverSurfer2fight14.jpg

Thor SMASH! you are aware that the hulk technically beat him in the 70's right? hulk win= fluke Thor win=BIGGER FLUKE

Originally posted by h1a8
That was SS at his worst and dumbest ever. He couldn't even hit Thor with a blast floating still in space. He didn't use his superior speed and reflexes over Thor either.
That fight holds no water when considering Surfer is fighting at his best (as shown before).

Surfer wins this solidly.

It's not like Thor was using his best attacks and powers, either.

Mindship of all people is downplaying the Silver Surfer.

Don't feats mean anything to ya'll???

Originally posted by Mindship

They're both heavily CIS-inflicted characters, and so closely matched, it could go either way at this point.

What? Dolos what are you talking about?

Originally posted by iscaremonkeys
you are aware that the hulk technically beat him in the 70's right? hulk win= fluke Thor win=BIGGER FLUKE

When did Hulk ever beat Surfer? News to me.

Originally posted by h1a8
That was SS at his worst and dumbest ever. He couldn't even hit Thor with a blast floating still in space. He didn't use his superior speed and reflexes over Thor either.
That fight holds no water when considering Surfer is fighting at his best (as shown before).

Surfer wins this solidly.

Not really. Who said Thor was floating still?

He tried. Thor was just too fast and powerful for him.

Your tears sustain me.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
It's not like Thor was using his best attacks and powers, either.

If Surfer was actually using his speed then Thor wouldn't have a chance to do his best attacks.

SS at least 10/10.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
When did Hulk ever beat Surfer? News to me.



Not really. Who said Thor was floating still?

He tried. Thor was just too fast and powerful for him.

Your tears sustain me.
I say!

Originally posted by h1a8
If Surfer was actually using his speed then Thor wouldn't have a chance to do his best attacks.

Feats suggest otherwise. Crying foul about how Surfer didn't fight as how you'd write or prefer doesn't change the fact that Thor holds his own or beats Surfer more often than he doesn't. And in those instances he barely scratches the surface of what he could feasibly do with his powers.

There's also the fact that Surfer, recently, had issues keeping up with Mjolnir. Unless of course Surfer was jobbing then, too.

He was.

I'm sad to say this, but Kang has done better against Surfer than against Thor

If Thor wins then I think it would be by the slimmest of margins.

This is probably as close to an even split as a fight will get.

Very even fight. Their classic past encounters have almost no bearing on how a fight would play out now, both characters have gone through changes. Their most recent "fight" showed me that Thor might still be slightly stronger and likely has better damage soak, while Norrin has the durability and versatility edge. Power is a wash imo but Mjolnir is a difficult weapon to overcome, really can't decide on a winner.

Originally posted by The Sorrow
Very even fight. Their classic past encounters have almost no bearing on how a fight would play out now, both characters have gone through changes. Their most recent "fight" showed me that Thor might still be slightly stronger and likely has better damage soak, while Norrin has the durability and versatility edge. Power is a wash imo but Mjolnir is a difficult weapon to overcome, really can't decide on a winner.

In their last fight Thor was previously injured.

Originally posted by curryman
In their last fight Thor was previously injured.
No sh!t! Wasn't even really a fight anyway.

Surfer wins.

Surfer wins.
PIS works against him far far worse than it does against Thor. Fanbase is bigger (and more psychotic) for Thor than for Surfer, which again helps keep their encounters PIS filled against Surfer.

When Surfer feels the need to, he 4 shots Thor types - BRB being the prime example.

Originally posted by janus77
Fanbase is bigger (and more psychotic) for Thor than for Surfer, which again helps keep their encounters PIS filled against Surfer.

Originally posted by curryman

Sad but true.
You lot even intimidate writers ...

Originally posted by janus77
Sad but true.
You lot even intimidate writers ...

You lot???

Originally posted by janus77
Fanbase is bigger (and more psychotic) for Thor than for Surfer

truth.

Interesting. I seem to remember that about four or five years ago, Thor fans were probably the most level-headed.

Originally posted by Mindship
Interesting. I seem to remember that about four or five years ago, Thor fans were probably the most level-headed.

I don't understand this.

Few characters are getting shit on more than Thor these days.

What exactly is it that they're getting?

Originally posted by curryman
I don't understand this.

Few characters are getting shit on more than Thor these days.

What exactly is it that they're getting? Good question. I don't read Thor, so I can only go by what I'm reading in the forums, that Thor is Jobber #1. I guess Galactus and Spider-Man said, enough, it's someone else's turn.

I don't think anyone's seriously going to mount a challenge for Galactus' jobber throne.

Aside from some comical KOs, Thor's only been manhandled by Hulk, which is perfectly reasonable given that Banner is now more comfortable with being Hulk.

It's a sad day when fans are resorting to "PIS" and Thor having a bigger fanbase for the reasoning as to why Surfer doesn't look as a good as him.

I'd also like some evidence suggesting that "psychotic Thor fans" intimidate writers.

Originally posted by Mindship
Good question. I don't read Thor, so I can only go by what I'm reading in the forums, that Thor is Jobber #1. I guess Galactus and Spider-Man said, enough, it's someone else's turn.

The term that seems to have sprung up in recent times; Janithor, puts it nicely.

Originally posted by janus77
Surfer wins.
PIS works against him far far worse than it does against Thor.

Surfer SHOULD win but writers are idiots. Going by what's been shown on panel, Thor wins.

I actually have a new found respect for the Surfer after reading one of those side stories in Silver Surfer Annual 2 (the one explaining how his powers work and everything he can do) recently.



I don't know about intimidating writers, but his fans are rabid (I'm not talking about anyone here, I'm talking about the official Marvel board and the stuff I see on CBR Forums). Feral animals are more sane.

This guys are the epitome of Heralds..

Thor-13 votes
SS-13 votes
Stalemate-2 votes

Damn this thread gonna take a while

Originally posted by janus77
PIS works against him far far worse than it does against Thor. I'm almost tempted to put this in the "Worst. Weakness. Ever." thread: Surfer - CIS/PIS.

It's not so much PIS/CIS as it is that Surfer just doesn't think the way people on this board would.

No, Surfer does think the way a lot of us would think in his place, it's what gives us the notions of what he could/might do.

What Surfer isn't allowed to do, is remember the stuff he does and how he does it.

For instance, he never attempts to trap mjolnir in his board, even though he has repeatedly trapped herald level characters in it.

He is basically too powerful and versatile for most writers, since he is rarely the focus of stories and mostly just a vehicle for telling tales about far distant galaxies and conflicts and such.

Originally posted by Mindship
I'm almost tempted to put this in the "Worst. Weakness. Ever." thread: Surfer - CIS/PIS.
That and the fact that he falls to ground if you take his board out from under his feet, apparently.

He doesn't think the way most people on the board would.

It's why we separate character from powerset.

Originally posted by janus77
That and the fact that he falls to ground if you take his board out from under his feet, apparently. I've been lamenting about that since God knows when. With all the crap he can do, at least hover, dammit, instead of tumbling like a girlieman...

...but basically, he's trapped by convention. If it's shown that he can fly w/o his board, then the board seems unnecessary, and there goes the whole surfer concept. He becomes just a shiny naked guy.

There are a few characters like this. Wonder Woman is another one. She can take hits from Superman, but still needs to block bullets with her bracelets? But watcha gonna do? That's her signature move, and it's up to comic fans to rationalize away the discrepancy (eg, Surfer can fly but doesn't to save power -- yeah, like mere flying takes so much; or: WW blocks bullets to demoralize opponents, like that's really more intimidating than just standing there and have bullets bounce off you).

Comics. Gotta love 'em.

Originally posted by Dolos
Silver Surfer is now willing to utilize all his abilities and the Power Cosmics nearly limitless resources to screw with Thor in this death battle, speedblitz, all out, full knowledge, lethal intent on both sides. And, is Thor able to dig into his bag of tricks for this fight?

You know, all the impossible things he has done off and on, over the years, that most Thor-haters will not even consider during these debates.

What restraints are placed on Thor?

Originally posted by Mindship
I've been lamenting about that since God knows when. With all the crap he can do, at least hover, dammit, instead of tumbling like a girlieman...

...but basically, he's trapped by convention. If it's shown that he can fly w/o his board, then the board seems unnecessary, and there goes the whole surfer concept. He becomes just a shiny naked guy.

There are a few characters like this. Wonder Woman is another one. She can take hits from Superman, but still needs to block bullets with her bracelets? But watcha gonna do? That's her signature move, and it's up to comic fans to rationalize away the discrepancy (eg, Surfer can fly but doesn't to save power -- yeah, like mere flying takes so much; or: WW blocks bullets to demoralize opponents, like that's really more intimidating than just standing there and have bullets bounce off you).

Comics. Gotta love 'em.
true, but I think there are a few instances of Surfer just floating about, iirc.

Also, just remembered yet another 'power' that he has and rarely utilises - spreading his consciousness everywhere... Like he did when he decided to live on Earth like a regular boy and wear ... dungarees.

Oh and how he just simply disintegrates people now if he gets irritated by them.

Originally posted by Horrificus
And, is Thor able to dig into his bag of tricks for this fight?

You know, all the impossible things he has done off and on, over the years, that most Thor-haters will not even consider during these debates.

What restraints are placed on Thor?
Not much really, he's always done the same shit, more or less.

Also, Thor is a warrior so he cuts loose more often or is depicted as cutting loose more readily than Surfer. Surfer's the silver shining monologue man. Jesus on an ironing board ...

I'm just saying, if Surfer is getting to use his rarer abilities and attacks, etc, does Thor also?

The 2 most powerful Herald-Level characters around. Both, rarely use what they have access to, for different reasons.

Are we taking BOTH of these guys completely off the leashes?

Originally posted by Horrificus
I'm just saying, if Surfer is getting to use his rarer abilities and attacks, etc, does Thor also?

The 2 most powerful Herald-Level characters around. Both, rarely use what they have access to, for different reasons.

Are we taking BOTH of these guys completely off the leashes?



Nine times out of ten, Surfer flies around and blasts people or uses the board attack. Nine times out of ten, Thor throws/swings Mjolnir and uses lightning blasts. Both of their powersets extend grossly beyond that.

The thing that annoys me is that these exotic abilities are what Surfer is all about. Exotic is what surfer does and just cuz he appears 3 times a year in the hands of writers who don't know how to portray his power, all of a sudden its "rare" for him to pull out exotic abilities?

Originally posted by JayDaDon
The thing that annoys me is that these exotic abilities are what Surfer is all about. Exotic is what surfer does and just cuz he appears 3 times a year in the hands of writers who don't know how to portray his power, all of a sudden its "rare" for him to pull out exotic abilities?

When he does appear, he doesn't fight nearly to the degree that a lot of these arguments imply he will. Sure, he has these abilities, and sure he has used them, but I don't recall many Surfer comics or appearances he's appeared in where he starts black holing people in the brain, stranding them in the astral dimension, using Cosmic Awareness to buff allies/debuff enemies, amping to infinite strength, and all this other crap in the span of miliseconds.

And even if we do decide to give Surfer the benefit of the doubt and have him start doing stuff he doesn't do very often, it always seem to neglect what his opponents can do if they're given the same benefit of the doubt. In this case, Thor and all his random plot device Mjolnir powers nullify or counter a great deal of whatever Surfer can do.

Well the black holing the brain and that stuff is flying off the deep end IMO.

Originally posted by TheHulk
Than I am laughing to myself

what part of singapore r u in my friend geoff is at trinity college for theology

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
When he does appear, he doesn't fight nearly to the degree that a lot of these arguments imply he will. Sure, he has these abilities, and sure he has used them, but I don't recall many Surfer comics or appearances he's appeared in where he starts black holing people in the brain, stranding them in the astral dimension, using Cosmic Awareness to buff allies/debuff enemies, amping to infinite strength, and all this other crap in the span of miliseconds.

And even if we do decide to give Surfer the benefit of the doubt and have him start doing stuff he doesn't do very often, it always seem to neglect what his opponents can do if they're given the same benefit of the doubt. In this case, Thor and all his random plot device Mjolnir powers nullify or counter a great deal of whatever Surfer can do. Right. Because, goodness knows that Thor has a list as long as my Legendary Schwantz, of strange powers, attacks, defenses and other weird stuff that would put a serious "bad" on Surfer or any other character.

Truth.

Originally posted by JayDaDon
Well the black holing the brain and that stuff is flying off the deep end IMO.
What about this?
http://s11.postimg.org/yzargerun/atomic.jpg
Rearranging the atomic structure of the air around Thor's head into adamantium or vibranium or uru and effectively blinding and strangling him.

Then he can destroy him at his leisure.

This is an ability he has as stated on panel and in his handbook entry. Yet writers never make use of it or hardly ever.

Originally posted by zopzop
What about this?
http://s11.postimg.org/yzargerun/atomic.jpg
Rearranging the atomic structure of the air around Thor's head into adamantium or vibranium or uru and effectively blinding and strangling him.

Then he can destroy him at his leisure.

This is an ability he has as stated on panel and in his handbook entry. Yet writers never make use of it or hardly ever. Thank Heavens! The representative for the "Anti-Thor Association" has arrived! And, not a moment too soon!

For God's sake, Zop! There are members here that actually LIKE Thor!
Move into action, Man! Move, man, Move!

Originally posted by zopzop
What about this?
http://s11.postimg.org/yzargerun/atomic.jpg
Rearranging the atomic structure of the air around Thor's head into adamantium or vibranium or uru and effectively blinding and strangling him.

Then he can destroy him at his leisure.

This is an ability he has as stated on panel and in his handbook entry. Yet writers never make use of it or hardly ever. How can he do that, when Thor has sent the Surfer's head to the Jurassic age?

Or, Healed Surfer's wounded soul, so he has absolutely NO inclination to fight anymore?

Or, go back in time, capture Shalla Bal, bring her back and hold her prisoner, unless Surfer disintegrates himself?

Or, suck all of the Power Cosmic out of Surfer?

Or, isolate Surfer from the Power Cosmic?

Etc, etc, etc.

Originally posted by Horrificus
How can he do that, when Thor has sent the Surfer's head to the Jurassic age?

Or, Healed Surfer's wounded soul, so he has absolutely NO inclination to fight anymore?

Or, go back in time, capture Shalla Bal, bring her back and hold her prisoner, unless Surfer disintegrates himself?

Or, suck all of the Power Cosmic out of Surfer?

Or, isolate Surfer from the Power Cosmic?

Etc, etc, etc.
Fail.

Quasar under Gruenwald couldn't drain the Surfer dry of Power Cosmic, htf is Thor gonna do it?

Also soul sucking won't work since we have on panel proof of Surfer resisting it and winning when Mephisto tried it. Mantis trained him in fighting off such techniques.

And last time I checked Mjlonir doens't have the ability to time travel, unless this was changed recently.

So not ONE of your examples would work vs Surfer.

Now, what would Thor do if the air around his head solidified into an indestructible (or near indestrucible) solid? He'd be phucked no?

You're aware that Surfer isn't the only one that can transmute, right?

Originally posted by zopzop
Fail.

Quasar under Gruenwald couldn't drain the Surfer dry of Power Cosmic, htf is Thor gonna do it?"Note to self: Zop, secretly thinks very highly of Quasar."

Well, out of the 2 of us, I am just going to figure you have the most experience with the "Sucking Issue", so I will surrender this to you for now. Get it? Hehe. I slyly interjected a comment into my post that alludes to the fact that you are always, well, you know... "Gobblemphllgrprll!"
Very Funny.

There, you would be blatantly wrong. He has indeed shown his ability to manipulate time.
Actually, I think there are quite a few scans of this in this forum, so I am surprised that you don't know about it.

Not laughing.

Oh Yeah?!
No, You!

Actually, since he does not need air, he might just thank Surfer for giving him an indestructible helmet, no?

Originally posted by Silent Master
You're aware that Surfer isn't the only one that can transmute, right?
Scans? Surfer has done it on the fly.
http://s17.postimg.org/7m3x8304b/929322_silver_surfer_1997_129_11_super.jpg

Originally posted by Horrificus
"Note to self: Zop, secretly thinks very highly of Quasar."

Well, out of the 2 of us, I am just going to figure you have the most experience with the "Sucking Issue", so I will surrender this to you for now. Get it? Hehe. I slyly interjected a comment into my post that alludes to the fact that you are always, well, you know... "Gobblemphllgrprll!"
Very Funny.

There, you would be blatantly wrong. He has indeed shown his ability to manipulate time.
Actually, I think there are quite a few scans of this in this forum, so I am surprised that you don't know about it.

Not laughing.

Oh Yeah?!
No, You!

Actually, since he does not need air, he might just thank Surfer for giving him an indestructible helmet, no?
Yes I do think highly of Quasar vs ENERGY TYPES HE CAN MANIPULATE.

Show me examples of him manipulating time AFTER Immortus supposedly stripped Mjolnir of that ability.

IIRC, he's done it against Absorbing-man back in JIM, when Kitty phased him into the ground and I vaguely recall him using it to repair his armor.

I'm sure rage could give you issue numbers.

He's also turned a pyramid or something into a bunch of trees.

Originally posted by Silent Master
IIRC, he's done it against Absorbing-man back in JIM, when Kitty phased him into the ground and I vaguely recall him using it to repair his armor.

I'm sure rage could give you issue numbers.
I'm not familiar with the AM incident but for sure he didn't do it vs Kitty. She phased him into the ground and he got out by creating an energy vortex.

How is that anything like manipulating matter on the atomic level?
http://s2.postimg.org/79eqa38x1/Thor_Mjolnir162_Healing428.jpg

The cop states that the ground is bonded to him, IOW Thor had to seperate his molecules from those of the street.

Originally posted by Silent Master
The cop states that the ground is bonded to him, IOW Thor had to seperate his molecules from those of the street.
The cop knows this how?

Notice the floor beneath him is glassed over. Looks like he just slagged the ground holding him.

If he wasn't fused to the ground, why would Thor be in pain?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
If he wasn't fused to the ground, why would Thor be in pain?
Because he's being crushed? If he was really fused to the ground. He wouldn't have a lower body. It'dve been destroyed.

Originally posted by zopzop
Because he's being crushed? If he was really fused to the ground. He wouldn't have a lower body. It'dve been destroyed.

Crushed by what? Being surrounded by asphalt wouldn't be nearly as painful for someone like Thor as opposed to actually having been fused with the ground.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Crushed by what? Being surrounded by asphalt wouldn't be nearly as painful for someone like Thor as opposed to actually having been fused with the ground.
Crushed by the hundreds/thousands of pounds of pressure.

If he was really fused into the ground, his entire lower body would be GONE. There would be nothing holding his upper body to anything. He'd just keel over bleeding profusely.

The big giveaway is the fact that the ground beneath him is FUSED into what appears to be glass. He slagged the rock/ground holding him.

This isn't hard.

Originally posted by zopzop
Crushed by the hundreds/thousands of pounds of pressure.

If he was really fused into the ground, his entire lower body would be GONE. There would be nothing holding his upper body to anything. He'd just keel over bleeding profusely.

The big giveaway is the fact that the ground beneath him is FUSED into what appears to be glass. He slagged the rock/ground holding him.

This isn't hard.

Really? Hundreds/thousands of pounds of pressure hurting Thor? facepalm

The asphalt was fused to his midsection. He still had a lower body to speak of.

Originally posted by zopzop
The cop knows this how?

Notice the floor beneath him is glassed over. Looks like he just slagged the ground holding him.

Thor is a cl 100 character, if he was just surrounded by asphalt, he could have easily muscled out.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Really? Hundreds/thousands of pounds of pressure hurting Thor? facepalm

The asphalt was fused to his midsection. He still had a lower body to speak of.
Yeah. It was also during this era that Mongoose's poison gas actually affected Thor and Thor was so weakened that he was struggling to lift a barebones skyscraper.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Thor is a cl 100 character, if he was just surrounded by asphalt, he could have easily muscled out.
Yeah and? Hulk is a CL100 character that has lost to Machine Man and was choked out by a python. It's comic. Sh|t happens.

Now why don't you two explain to me, why the ground beneath his feet is glassed over if he didnt' slag it?

When was the last time matter manip did that?

Thor for slight majority. Why? Their history speaks for itself. However, by feats and on paper, I'd say SS

Again, the comic flat out states that the ground is bonded to him.

In that same era, Thor's average was still enough to do shit like shatter Celestial armor, shatter mountains, cause reverbreations across entire planets, etc. Considering he's easily powered out of tons of rubble before consistently, being surrounded by asphalt would be nothing to him.

Mjolnir unfused Thor from the street and the resulting energies turned the street into glass like substance.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Again, the comic flat out states that the ground is bonded to him.
That cop is now an expert in how mutant powers work when you phase one object into another? They should hire him over at Xavier's school.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
In that same era, Thor's average was still enough to do shit like shatter Celestial armor, shatter mountains, cause reverbreations across entire planets, etc. Considering he's easily powered out of tons of rubble before consistently, being surrounded by asphalt would be nothing to him.

Mjolnir unfused Thor from the street and the resulting energies turned the street into glass like substance.
Yeah, they are called highs and lows. This was a low for Thor.

Mjolnir slagged the rock encasing Thor. That's what is shown on panel.

Can you imagine if Sersi or SS 'manipulated" matter this way? Their subjects would be burned to ashes.

Originally posted by zopzop
That cop is now an expert in how mutant powers work when you phase one object into another? They should hire him over at Xavier's school.

I'll take the word of the Cop over your's.

Originally posted by zopzop
That cop is now an expert in how mutant powers work when you phase one object into another? They should hire him over at Xavier's school.

Yeah, they are called highs and lows. This was a low for Thor.

Mjolnir slagged the rock encasing Thor. That's what is shown on panel.

Can you imagine if Sersi or SS 'manipulated" matter this way? Their subjects would be burned to ashes.

He was fused to the ground, which was was what was causing him extreme pain. Not the fact that he was surrounded by asphalt. That doesn't even make sense.

Sersi or SS's matter manipulation abilities have no bearing on this scene.

Originally posted by Silent Master
I'll take the word of the Cop over your's.
And I'll take what was depicted ON PANEL over some random cops comment.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
He was fused to the ground, which was was what was causing him extreme pain. Not the fact that he was surrounded by asphalt. That doesn't even make sense.

Sersi or SS's matter manipulation abilities have no bearing on this scene.
He was phased INTO the ground. His lower body was being crushed by that pressure.

ON PANEL :
a) He begins to spin Mjlonir around
b) Builds up momentum
c) Energy vortex is created
d) the ground holding him shatters (we literally see debris flying all over the place)
e) the ground is smoldering
f) the ground is glassed over

He superheated the ground and it shattered freeing him. It's right there on panel. How you ignore this is amazing.

Originally posted by zopzop
And I'll take what was depicted ON PANEL over some random cops comment.

The cop was on panel and so was Thor being in pain because his body was bonded to the ground.

Even if we assume you're correct and Thor is hellaciously injured by the pressure of "hundreds to thousands of pounds" (which would render the whole thing PIS) and Thor didn't matter manipulate his way free, he still has several instances of matter manipulation including his feat against Absorbing Man, turning a pyramid into trees, trapping and shrinking Hyperion in glass and other absurd feats.

Originally posted by Silent Master
The cop was on panel and so was Thor being in pain because his body was bonded to the ground.
Right. The cop said it SEEMS like you are bonded to the rock. Key word being "SEEMS". The cop being no expert in anything was just running his mouth.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Even if we assume you're correct and Thor is hellaciously injured by the pressure of "hundreds to thousands of pounds" (which would render the whole thing PIS) and Thor didn't matter manipulate his way free, he still has several instances of matter manipulation including his feat against Absorbing Man, turning a pyramid into trees, trapping and shrinking Hyperion in glass and other absurd feats.
Yes, let's see the context. How long did it take him to perform these feats. Surfer has done it INSTANTLY.

Originally posted by zopzop
Right. The cop said it SEEMS like you are bonded to the rock. Key word being "SEEMS". The cop being no expert in anything was just running his mouth..

We have already explained this to you.

He's done them in the span of moments or instantly.

Mjolnir can also protect him against offensive matter manipulation as well to say nothing of basically countering any energy based attack Surfer could throw his way.

Originally posted by Silent Master
We have already explained this to you.
Actually you haven't. Do you know what the word "SEEMS" means? Because that was the word the random cop used.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/seems

So it SEEMED to him that Thor was fused into the ground. He could be right or he could be wrong. He was proven wrong when Thor superheated the ground causing it to shatter and freed himself.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
He's done them in the span of moments or instantly.

Mjolnir can also protect him against offensive matter manipulation as well to say nothing of basically countering any energy based attack Surfer could throw his way.
Proof? Because you just saying so isn't enough. You misinterpreted the Thor/Kitty scan. So I'm a little skeptical.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
He was fused to the ground, which was was what was causing him extreme pain. Not the fact that he was surrounded by asphalt. That doesn't even make sense.

Sersi or SS's matter manipulation abilities have no bearing on this scene.

Originally posted by Silent Master

So when Hulk got out of this :
http://s17.postimg.org/tzvvjcqcb/783132_kitty1_md_super.jpg
He was using matter manip? Sweet. Who knew?

Originally posted by zopzop
So when Hulk got out of this :
http://s17.postimg.org/tzvvjcqcb/783132_kitty1_md_super.jpg
He was using matter manip? Sweet. Who knew?

No, his healing factor pushed it out.

That's why there were pieces lodged in his arms that were slowly falling out while he was screaming afterwards.

Originally posted by curryman
No, his healing factor pushed it out.

That's why there were pieces lodged in his arms that were slowly falling out while he was screaming afterwards.

Originally posted by curryman
No, his healing factor pushed it out.

That's why there were pieces lodged in his arms that were slowly falling out while he was screaming afterwards.
Exactly. NO matter manip needed!

Just like in Thor's case. He superheated the rock, the rock blew up, he escaped.

All this was shown on panel.

The ground exploded with debris flying all over the place - Fact
The ground was smoldering - Fact
The ground beneath his feet was turned to glass - Fact

That's not phucking matter manip.

Hulk proved you don't need any matter manip to escape being phased into an object.

I have not read what is going on but...

I thought it that was actually the force created by flexing his muscles pushing the rock out and then his HF healing the damage on hulks case.

Originally posted by zopzop
Exactly. NO matter manip needed!

Just like in Thor's case. He superheated the rock, the rock blew up, he escaped.

All this was shown on panel.

The ground exploded with debris flying all over the place - Fact
The ground was smoldering - Fact
The ground beneath his feet was turned to glass - Fact

That's not phucking matter manip.

Hulk proved you don't need any matter manip to escape being phased into an object.

What?...

Obviously Thor had to use magic-or whatever to get out of the rock. Whenever she's phasing someone she's gliding through the molecules. Thor doesn't have a healing-factor that works as strong as WWhulks.

Originally posted by curryman
What?...

Obviously Thor had to use magic-or whatever to get out of the rock. Whenever she's phasing someone she's gliding through the molecules. Thor doesn't have a healing-factor that works as strong as WWhulks.
Yes, "magic" to super heat the ground holding him.

How else do you explain why the ground exploded? Why it was smoldering? Why it was turned to glass?

Explain that.

It was super heated. That's what caused those things to happen.

Originally posted by zopzop
Yes, "magic" to super heat the ground holding him.

How else do you explain why the ground exploded? Why it was smoldering? Why it was turned to glass?

Explain that.

It was super heated. That's what caused those things to happen.

Okay.

How does that fix Thor's body?

Originally posted by curryman
Okay.

How does that fix Thor's body?
Who said it needed fixing? Isn't the consensus on these boards, according to on panel evidence, that Thor is more durable but Hulk has the better healing factor?

Originally posted by zopzop
Who said it needed fixing? Isn't the consensus on these boards, according to on panel evidence, that Thor is more durable but Hulk has the better healing factor?

No doubt but when she phases someone into something she's bonding their molecules.

Their last fight was pretty much equal despite the Surfer's obvious hesitation to fight. The OP removed that limitation, so I think the Surfer wins.

Originally posted by curryman
No doubt but when she phases someone into something she's bonding their molecules.
Proof? It was already shown on panel that you DO NOT NEED matter manip to escape being phased into objects.

Hulk muscled out of it using his healing factor. Thor used Mjolnir to superheat and then shatter the object holding him.

Surfer was holding back? Sure.

Thor had a great big gaping wound in his side.

Originally posted by zopzop
Proof? It was already shown on panel that you DO NOT NEED matter manip to escape being phased into objects.

Hulk muscled out of it using his healing factor. Thor used Mjolnir to superheat and then shatter the object holding him.

I'm not saying he would necessarily need matter-manip to get out.

I'm saying he would need it to remove it without getting injured.

Last time they fought they were pretty even. Although Thor had a wound, he was also a bloodlusted maniac out for the kill. Surfer on the other hand didn't seem like he wanted to fight at all. He even showed genuine concern for Thor mid-fight.

Originally posted by zopzop
Exactly. NO matter manip needed!

Just like in Thor's case. He superheated the rock, the rock blew up, he escaped.

All this was shown on panel.

The ground exploded with debris flying all over the place - Fact
The ground was smoldering - Fact
The ground beneath his feet was turned to glass - Fact

That's not phucking matter manip.

Hulk proved you don't need any matter manip to escape being phased into an object.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

Kitty fused him into the ground. Fused. Which means that even had he blown the stuff off him, it would still be inside him. He used matter manip. In Hulk's case where he has a healing factor, his body self repaired and expelled the foreign content from himself. In Thor's case he did it with Mjolnir through matter manip. Keep hating though. That's all your good for anyway.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
In that same era, Thor's average was still enough to do shit like shatter Celestial armor, shatter mountains, cause reverbreations across entire planets, etc. Considering he's easily powered out of tons of rubble before consistently, being surrounded by asphalt would be nothing to him.

Mjolnir unfused Thor from the street and the resulting energies turned the street into glass like substance. lol

You just named Thor's best feats and yet you claim they are averages?

Originally posted by h1a8
lol

You just named Thor's best feats and yet you claim they are averages?

They're aren't his best feats. The Celestial Armor breaking feat is up there, though.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
They're aren't his best feats. The Celestial Armor breaking feat is up there, though. I stand corrected but they are some pretty high ass feats for Thor. No where near average. Thor doesn't shatter mountains everyday now.

Originally posted by h1a8
I stand corrected but they are some pretty high ass feats for Thor. No where near average. Thor doesn't shatter mountains everyday now.

He doesn't fight near mountains in order to actually be able to do it. But his bare fists are often and have often been attributed to mountain shattering, let alone Mjolnir.

Originally posted by h1a8
I stand corrected but they are some pretty high ass feats for Thor. No where near average. Thor doesn't shatter mountains everyday now.

Yeah he really should be going around altering the topography of the ****ing place he's trying to protect.

Originally posted by Damborgson
You have no idea what you're talking about.

Kitty fused him into the ground. Fused. Which means that even had he blown the stuff off him, it would still be inside him. He used matter manip. In Hulk's case where he has a healing factor, his body self repaired and expelled the foreign content from himself. In Thor's case he did it with Mjolnir through matter manip. Keep hating though. That's all your good for anyway.
Keep dancing around what was shown on panel, it's ok. The Hulk incident proved you dont' need matter manip to escape being phased.

As depicted on panel, he superheated the floor/ground and he escaped. I would have thought the explosion of rock, the smoldering crater and the glassification present would have been proof for even the staunchest fanboy.

Originally posted by zopzop
Keep dancing around what was shown on panel, it's ok. The Hulk incident proved you dont' need matter manip to escape being phased.

As depicted on panel, he superheated the floor/ground and he escaped. I would have thought the explosion of rock, the smoldering crater and the glassification present would have been proof for even the staunchest fanboy.

What was shown on panel is exactly what I told you. The Hulk incident is completely different, as different ways were being used to escape the fusion.

Of course he did. So? For his body to have been freed of the debris which were now fused inside of him, super heating the exterior of his body would not heal the gaping wounds that would have been left. Unless you think super heating something heals and mends. Which in your case, you probably do.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
He doesn't fight near mountains in order to actually be able to do it. But his bare fists are often and have often been attributed to mountain shattering, let alone Mjolnir.

Whilst with Mjolnir his strikes have been attributed to Planet Shattering even in his classic comics.

Surfer said misuse of his powers could destroy a galaxy.

Originally posted by vince_slice
Surfer said misuse of his powers could destroy a galaxy.


Obviously not a hyperbole.

Originally posted by vince_slice
Surfer said misuse of his powers could destroy a galaxy.



Well if you destroy the right Star, maybe it could cause a chain reaction..

In all seriousness though even if that's true, it doesn't mean Surfer's strikes are Galaxy Shattering strikes.

Stalemate.

I always thought Thor had a higher ceiling of power. Like, I don't think Surfer could recreate Thor's showing against Mercy.

It's hard to argue with the speed edge that Surfer should have though. There are ways, of course...multi or omni-directional lightning (we can be relatively sure it could tag even a speeding Surfer). Or a more general energy siphon (it doesn't just absorb individual blasts, properly focused), but then we also have to allow for some creativity from Surfer during those tactics.

I always tended to side with Thor for the majority. But, more than that, I always furrowed my brow in confusion at anyone who painted it as something other than a near-coin-flip scenario. It's ok to have a side, but keeping opinions within reason is just as important...especially when there's no actual winner here.

Originally posted by Digi
I always thought Thor had a higher ceiling of power. Like, I don't think Surfer could recreate Thor's showing against Mercy.

It's hard to argue with the speed edge that Surfer should have though. There are ways, of course...multi or omni-directional lightning (we can be relatively sure it could tag even a speeding Surfer). Or a more general energy siphon (it doesn't just absorb individual blasts, properly focused), but then we also have to allow for some creativity from Surfer during those tactics.

I always tended to side with Thor for the majority. But, more than that, I always furrowed my brow in confusion at anyone who painted it as something other than a near-coin-flip scenario. It's ok to have a side, but keeping opinions within reason is just as important...especially when there's no actual winner here. surfer could just create a blackhole which would suck up any energy attack thor would unleash with its immense gravitational pull

Originally posted by Damborgson
What was shown on panel is exactly what I told you. The Hulk incident is completely different, as different ways were being used to escape the fusion.

Of course he did. So? For his body to have been freed of the debris which were now fused inside of him, super heating the exterior of his body would not heal the gaping wounds that would have been left. Unless you think super heating something heals and mends. Which in your case, you probably do.
Right. So explain the exploding sidewalk, why it was smoldering, and the glassification at Thor's feet. I'll wait.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Whilst with Mjolnir his strikes have been attributed to Planet Shattering even in his classic comics.
Show me Thor busting a planet. I don't recall that ever happening. I think there are actually scans out there of Surfer destroying a planet. We saw that his fight with Morg wrecked an entire solar system.

Zopzop, explain to me what happened.

Kitty phased Thor's entire lower half into the ground and bonded him with it. Your argument is that no molecule manipulation was used. So okay, he used heat and whatever bullshit to break the pavement.

Now what about himself? His entire lower half would be more concrete then flesh, how is he still alive much less completely undamaged?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Zopzop, explain to me what happened.

Kitty phased Thor's entire lower half into the ground and bonded him with it. Your argument is that no molecule manipulation was used. So okay, he used heat and whatever bullshit to break the pavement.

Now what about himself? His entire lower half would be more concrete then flesh, how is he still alive much less completely undamaged?
I already told you what happened she phased him inside the ground. Thor's flesh and bone are 3xs more dense (according to handbooks but on panel probably a LOT more than that) than a human beings. His body would fight off the effect of having it solidify in another object, exactly like Hulk's did.

What we saw ON PANEL was him creating an energy vortex, the ground got hot, it burst, and he got out.
How do we know this?
a) The ground exploded.
b) The ground was smoldering.
c) Glassification occured beneath his feet.

Originally posted by Digi
I always thought Thor had a higher ceiling of power. Like, I don't think Surfer could recreate Thor's showing against Mercy.

It's hard to argue with the speed edge that Surfer should have though. There are ways, of course...multi or omni-directional lightning (we can be relatively sure it could tag even a speeding Surfer). Or a more general energy siphon (it doesn't just absorb individual blasts, properly focused), but then we also have to allow for some creativity from Surfer during those tactics.

I always tended to side with Thor for the majority. But, more than that, I always furrowed my brow in confusion at anyone who painted it as something other than a near-coin-flip scenario. It's ok to have a side, but keeping opinions within reason is just as important...especially when there's no actual winner here.

Yup this is more or less how I feel about it too

Originally posted by Starscream M
surfer could just create a blackhole which would suck up any energy attack thor would unleash with its immense gravitational pull

There are counters to this, or other possible outcomes. One tactic as end-all is the kind of simplistic analysis I was speaking about in my last post.

Originally posted by zopzop


Show me Thor busting a planet. I don't recall that ever happening. I think there are actually scans out there of Surfer destroying a planet. We saw that his fight with Morg wrecked an entire solar system.

I didn't say he goes around destroying planets. I said his that's how hard his strikes have been equated to even in his classic comics.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
I didn't say he goes around destroying planets. I said his that's how hard his strikes have been equated to even in his classic comics.
Which means nothing really. Someone already stated the Surfer's unchecked power can wreck a galaxy. It's called hyperbole.

And I just remembered where I saw Surfer busting a planet. It was during the Tyrant/Galactus arc written by Lackey.

He was having a mid-life crisis or something and went around wrecking sh|t. He casually beat the crap out of the Super Skrull then went on to destroy an entire planet.

Surfer's fight with Morg wrecked a solar system and Morg was KOed, the Surfer was just fine.

Originally posted by zopzop
I already told you what happened she phased him inside the ground. Thor's flesh and bone are 3xs more dense (according to handbooks but on panel probably a LOT more than that) than a human beings. His body would fight off the effect of having it solidify in another object, exactly like Hulk's did.

What we saw ON PANEL was him creating an energy vortex, the ground got hot, it burst, and he got out.
How do we know this?
a) The ground exploded.
b) The ground was smoldering.
c) Glassification occured beneath his feet.

Please read the words instead of looking at the pretty pictures:
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/WithstandsKittyPhasing1.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/WithstandsKittyPhasing2.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/WithstandsKittyPhasing3.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/WithstandsKittyPhasing4.jpg

It was outright stated that Kitty turned Thor intangible, fusing/bonding him with the ground.

The officer even addressed that simply blasting the ground would prove more disastrous then anything.

Hulk ripped through the pavement but he had entire chunks inside of him. Pretty sure even Superman had pieces of concrete stuck in his arms and it sent him into shock. And in both those scenarios, it wasn't their entire lower f*cking half fused. Thor's durability doesn't negate phasing.

Originally posted by zopzop
Which means nothing really. Someone already stated the Surfer's unchecked power can wreck a galaxy. It's called hyperbole.

It's not as vague as Surfer's Galaxy destroying power. How would Sufer do that? Which powers would he use? We have no idea.

Thor's Strikes have been directly attributed to planet shattering in power. They have been called so more than once and since his classic comics. There's nothing hyperbolic about it. It's simply how powerful his strikes are.

Originally posted by zopzop


He was having a mid-life crisis or something and went around wrecking sh|t. He casually beat the crap out of the Super Skrull then went on to destroy an entire planet.



Ok great for Surfer. Thor went mad and casually wrecked Surfer once.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Please read the words instead of looking at the pretty pictures:
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/WithstandsKittyPhasing1.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/WithstandsKittyPhasing2.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/WithstandsKittyPhasing3.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/WithstandsKittyPhasing4.jpg

It was outright stated that Kitty turned Thor intangible, fusing/bonding him with the ground.

The officer even addressed that simply blasting the ground would prove more disastrous then anything.

Hulk ripped through the pavement but he had entire chunks inside of him. Pretty sure even Superman had pieces of concrete stuck in his arms and it sent him into shock. And in both those scenarios, it wasn't their entire lower f*cking half fused. Thor's durability doesn't negate phasing.
If his entire lower body was indeed fused to the ground, his upper body would be nothing more than a bloody stump and he'd keel over.

But that didn't happen did it?

He was phased into the floor, trapped. He superheated the rock, it exploded and melted and he escaped.

It's right there on panel. Hulk escaped another way. Neither of them used matter manip.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
It's not as vague as Surfer's Galaxy destroying power. How would Sufer do that? Which powers would he use? We have no idea.

Thor's Strikes have been directly attributed to planet shattering in power. They have been called so more than once and since his classic comics. There's nothing hyperbolic about it. It's simply how powerful his strikes are.

BS. It's called hyperbole for a reason. SHOW ME Thor busting a planet. I'll wait.



Good for Thor.

Originally posted by zopzop
If his entire lower body was indeed fused to the ground, his upper body would be nothing more than a bloody stump and he'd keel over.

But that didn't happen did it?

He was phased into the floor, trapped. He superheated the rock, it exploded and melted and he escaped.

It's right there on panel. Hulk escaped another way. Neither of them used matter manip.

Stop ignoring what you don't like. It's worded very clearly that he was bonded/fused with the concrete. And he then used Mjolnir's magic (Most likely molecular manipulation) to perform a miracle and set himself free.

You are literally ignoring what the comic told us to come to your own conclusions. Should just get a mod ruiling to shut you up.

Hulk ripped himself free, and was able to heal through the damage. Thor doesn't have a healing factor that can regrow practically anything in moments, simply breaking the ground would have most likely killed him.

Seriously, do you not see how f*cking dumb your stance is? If he resisted the phasing (How do you resist phasing btw?), he'd have just flexed and broken the ground instead of being in complete agony, resorting to Mjolnir's magic.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Stop ignoring what you don't like. It's worded very clearly that he was bonded/fused with the concrete. And he then used Mjolnir's magic (Most likely molecular manipulation) to perform a miracle and set himself free.

You are literally ignoring what the comic told us to come to your own conclusions. Should just get a mod ruiling to shut you up.

Hulk ripped himself free, and was able to heal through the damage. Thor doesn't have a healing factor that can regrow practically anything in moments, simply breaking the ground would have most likely killed him.

Seriously, do you not see how f*cking dumb your stance is? If he resisted the phasing (How do you resist phasing btw?), he'd have just flexed and broken the ground instead of being in complete agony, resorting to Mjolnir's magic.
I'm not the one ignoring what's DEPICTED on panel.

The "matter manip" side has to explain why the ground EXPLODED, why the ground was smoldering, and why glassification occurred at his feet.

Explain that to me. Because that's consistant with what happens when you heat solids like rocks/stone rapidly. Depending on the composition of the stone/rock it will explode and glassify, just explode, go molten, etc...

This is EXACTLY what occurred ON PANEL.

And Asgardians aren't human. Their physiology allows them to survive and recover from wounds that would kill mortals.

Originally posted by zopzop

BS. It's called hyperbole for a reason.

Did you even read my post? It's not hyperbole. It's quantifiable.

Originally posted by zopzop
SHOW ME Thor busting a planet. I'll wait.

I can show you him busting Surfer.