Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Who wins?

J'onn

Mm

hard to decide here.

Apocalypse has every advantage except for speed.
and manhunter can't keep him down.

Apocalypse

Poccy by headbutt.

J'onn stomps him

J'onn wins

Originally posted by comic_book_fan
Apocalypse J'onn has every advantage except for speed.

Originally posted by Cogito


maybe he looses at energy projection but meh, Jonn smashes him

Poccy decisively. FAR more experience, smarter, access to celestial tech (part of him). But it would be one HELL of a fight!

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Poccy decisively. FAR more experience, smarter, access to celestial tech (part of him). But it would be one HELL of a fight!

Far more experience?

I'll say that Manhunter takes this.

On paper Apocalypse should take this for a solid majority, but J'onns feats >>> apocs feats IMHO

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Far more experience?

being millenia years old, but still it's not gonna cut it for him

Apoc won`t even make Manjobber his horseman, he will be one of the horses.

Originally posted by Warlord
being millenia years old, but still it's not gonna cut it for him
So's MM. He retains all the racial memories and experiences of the Martians.

It gets around the tricky question of - what if the last survivor of your race was an idiot?

^ This and the fact that if we're using Pre-Flashpoint J'onn, he's personally over 220 million years old, and thus significantly older than Apoc.

Originally posted by Mshinu
Apoc won`t even make Manjobber his horseman, he will be one of the horses.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So's MM. He retains all the racial memories and experiences of the Martians.

It gets around the tricky question of - what if the last survivor of your race was an idiot?

And he STILL jobs to Superman!

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
And he STILL jobs to Superman!

Yeah. And Superman's still afraid of him.

One of the few good things to come out of DCnU is the building up of MM I think.

Originally posted by Martian_mind
^ This and the fact that if we're using Pre-Flashpoint J'onn, he's personally over 220 million years old, and thus significantly older than Apoc.

Where are you getting his age from?

Originally posted by Warlord
J'onn stomps him
how telepathy isn't going to work Apocalypse is stronger more durable better molecular control better energy powers and way smarter and a better fighter J'onn's only advantage is speed and that's not going to save him.

Originally posted by comic_book_fan
how telepathy isn't going to work Apocalypse is stronger more durable better molecular control better energy powers and way smarter and a better fighter J'onn's only advantage is speed and that's not going to save him.

Hmm....


No.

Originally posted by comic_book_fan
how telepathy isn't going to work Apocalypse is stronger more durable better molecular control better energy powers and way smarter and a better fighter J'onn's only advantage is speed and that's not going to save him.

I am in agreement here. Apoc needs more book time though, because he's become quite obscure over the past few years. This is likely the reason that he's so underwhelming on this board. I'd place Apoc on the same level as Atrocitus tbh. Both are above J'onn at their best.

Originally posted by Stoic
I am in agreement here. Apoc needs more book time though, because he's become quite obscure over the past few years. This is likely the reason that he's so underwhelming on this board. I'd place Apoc on the same level as Atrocitus tbh. Both are above J'onn at their best.

No question. Poccy is a nightmare match up that J can't win. His strengths are Poccy's strengths, only Poccy's are stronger. The super speed thing is not a factor and just a carry over from D.C. universe. It would never be a determining factor, so I don't know why it keeps being mentioned.

Originally posted by Cogito
Hmm....


No.
yes!!!
yes!!!
yes!!!

Originally posted by comic_book_fan
yes!!!
yes!!!
yes!!!

No. You've either got an over-exaggerated view of Apocalypse or you're low balling J'onn.

Apocalypse will figure out a way how to beat himself.

UUUMMM, recent Apocalypse stomps.

Originally posted by LeonBuco666
On paper Apocalypse should take this for a solid majority, but J'onns feats >>> apocs feats IMHO

Comics are on paper. What exactly does "on paper" mean in this context? If you just listed their powers, they'd sound fairly similar.

Originally posted by carver9
UUUMMM, recent Apocalypse stomps.

You mean the recent Apocalypse who got cleaved near to death after Thor bypassed his armor's Celestial defenses?

Originally posted by Cogito
No. You've either got an over-exaggerated view of Apocalypse or you're low balling J'onn.
no I am not both thor and hulk are stronger than j'onn and Apocalypse has over powered both of them.
professor x can match manhunter in telepathy and he can't even begin to get through Apocalypse's defenses durability Apocalypse can take a full powered shot from blackbolt Cyclops and more and not flinch.
and take an angry thor hitting him in the chest with his hammer and barely flinch Apocalypse is a higher tier than manhunter.

Originally posted by comic_book_fan
no I am not both thor and hulk are stronger than j'onn and Apocalypse has over powered both of them.
professor x can match manhunter in telepathy and he can't even begin to get through Apocalypse's defenses durability Apocalypse can take a full powered shot from blackbolt Cyclops and more and not flinch.
and take an angry thor hitting him in the chest with his hammer and barely flinch Apocalypse is a higher tier than manhunter.

Dude, it was Cyclops who killed Apocalypse in that comic... and Blackbolt couldn't have been going all out--he never does--because it would have killed everyone on his team.

Apocalypse showed up in a suped-up version of his armor, sucker punched a green Thor who was too drunk to think to attack Apocalypse's exposed head rather than the armor itself. Once Thor realized how to bypass the armor's Celestial defenses, he made short work of Apocalypse, who couldn't even muster the balls to face Wolverine's human ancestor directly, and opted to burn down all of London instead.

The narration specifically mentions that even though Black Bolt's mouth is wide open, there's barely a sound coming out.

Originally posted by comic_book_fan
no I am not both thor and hulk are stronger than j'onn and Apocalypse has over powered both of them.
professor x can match manhunter in telepathy and he can't even begin to get through Apocalypse's defenses durability Apocalypse can take a full powered shot from blackbolt Cyclops and more and not flinch.
and take an angry thor hitting him in the chest with his hammer and barely flinch Apocalypse is a higher tier than manhunter.

Thank you.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Dude, it was Cyclops who killed Apocalypse in that comic... and Blackbolt couldn't have been going all out--he never does--because it would have killed everyone on his team.

Apocalypse showed up in a suped-up version of his armor, sucker punched a green Thor who was too drunk to think to attack Apocalypse's exposed head rather than the armor itself. Once Thor realized how to bypass the armor's Celestial defenses, he made short work of Apocalypse, who couldn't even muster the balls to face Wolverine's human ancestor directly, and opted to burn down all of London instead.

Poccy > MM, Thor > MM

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Poccy > MM, Thor > MM

If you go by hype, sure.

Manjobber vs Jobberlips

Hmm,... Manhunter is faster so he jobs first

I could literally see Apoc punch J'onn in the mouth and as he removes his fist from the back of his head, J'onn would be implanted with some sort of control device. Game over.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
You mean the recent Apocalypse who got cleaved near to death after Thor bypassed his armor's Celestial defenses? Through an enchantment. Without it Jarbjorn had a much lesser effect.

Originally posted by Damborgson
Through an enchantment. Without it Jarbjorn had a much lesser effect.

Yeah, and Apocalypse's armor was made near-indestructible for the sake of the story arc, where in prior showings, it wasn't quite so big a factor in a fight.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Yeah, and Apocalypse's armor was made near-indestructible for the sake of the story arc, where in prior showings, it wasn't quite so big a factor in a fight.

On the countary a plot device has often been required to bypass Poccy`s defenses.

does pocy know Jon's weakness to fire in this fight?
If so, he may salvage the win

Originally posted by Warlord
does pocy know Jon's weakness to fire in this fight?
If so, he may salvage the win

Let Poccy light your fire.

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120127023655/marveldatabase/images/8/89/En_Sabah_Nur_%28Evan_Sabahnur%29_%28Earth-12034%29_from_Wolverine_and_the_X-Men_Vol_1_4_page_.jpg

smoking....

Why does he have Aquaman's trousers?

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Yeah, and Apocalypse's armor was made near-indestructible for the sake of the story arc, where in prior showings, it wasn't quite so big a factor in a fight.

I agree to a certain extent, but it actually is pretty rare to see Apocalypse take a physical beating.

We should consider that it was a young Thor with an axe though.

Martian Manhunter's fists are a whole other matter.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Why does he have Aquaman's trousers?

Maybe the pants got mixed up at the gayclub....

Originally posted by curryman
I agree to a certain extent, but it actually is pretty rare to see Apocalypse take a physical beating.

We should consider that it was a young Thor with an axe though.

Martian Manhunter's fists are a whole other matter.

Still pretty impressive..
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/UncannyAvengers006-005_zps99158766.jpg

And it is not like Poccy lacks durability showings.
Taking pre-depowerment Exodus`s full on blast without a scratch.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/8/84998/2751974-exodusapocalypse.jpg

was that Sersi lied down in the first exodus scan?

Originally posted by Warlord
was that Sersi lied down in the first exodus scan?

Yes, I believe you can find several more scans in the Apocalypse respect thread.

btw.. Exodus from that apperance was pretty damn strong.
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/8990/exodusorigin11om7.jpg
http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/8277/exodusorigin12ns2.jpg

right.... if i remember corectly this story was an avengers xmen crossover. good one

Originally posted by curryman
I agree to a certain extent, but it actually is pretty rare to see Apocalypse take a physical beating.

We should consider that it was a young Thor with an axe though.

Martian Manhunter's fists are a whole other matter.
in another issue he took an angry adult thor's mjonir to the chest and barely flinched and while at full strength has shook off blackbolts scream I doubt manhunters fists would do much.

Originally posted by comic_book_fan
in another issue he took an angry adult thor's mjonir to the chest and barely flinched and while at full strength has shook off blackbolts scream I doubt manhunters fists would do much.

If you are refering to this instance it was Thor vs a time-shifted (non-616) Apoc, but yeah he was fine after.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/63189/1315661-avengers_3_legion_cps_006.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/63189/1315662-avengers_3_legion_cps_008.jpg

not this again...i've been through too much trouble to forget Romita's ridiculous art

Originally posted by curryman
I agree to a certain extent, but it actually is pretty rare to see Apocalypse take a physical beating.

We should consider that it was a young Thor with an axe though.



Thor was also drunk.

According to that comic Thor being drunk and limber was the only thing that saved him from being one-shotted by Apocalypse.

And that was also the same Thor that knocked Gorr to another solar system with an unenchanted hammer.

^ He did hit him through the wormhole that Gorr's black wyrm used to transport himself.

Jonn wins

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Once Thor realized how to bypass the armor's Celestial defenses, he made short work of Apocalypse, who couldn't even muster the balls to face Wolverine's human ancestor directly, and opted to burn down all of London instead.

Ok... let's not exaggarate. Thor threw an axe and Apocalypse easily caught with his reflexes. Only why Thor had any success was because Apocalypse wasn't aware that Thor magically enhanced his weapon. If he was aware, Apocalypse would crush him again (he could also take an axe from him).

Apocalypse literally had the power to kill Thor with a headbutt, to break him. He was out of Thor league.

And why are you bringing this up... would MM bypass his defenses also?

Apocalypse would tear him apart.

Originally posted by comic_book_fan
in another issue he took an angry adult thor's mjonir to the chest and barely flinched and while at full strength has shook off blackbolts scream I doubt manhunters fists would do much.

Like Mshinu mentioned it was not 616 Apocalypse.

And when he shook off Black Bolt's whisper (as mentioned in the narration), he was amped up by the inhumans.

Apoc, no contest. Haters gonna hate.

Why is beating a young thor so impressive anyway?

Because Prince Thor was a beast in his own right (God Butcher Arc displays that). He lacked Mjolnir, experience, and discipline like his Modern self, but he had the mentality of a savage warrior and the strength and ferocity to take on high end threats without fear. At least that is why I was impressed. Initially Apoc sonned a featless Thor without a context and then it was shown that Prince Thor was very capable, but outclassed.

Its from a different writer altogether and young thor didn't seem in class of adult Thor who I view as Apoc's superior in strength.

Apoc restrained Hulk, remember.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Apoc restrained Hulk, remember.
Sandman has restrained Hulk by the same tactic. Heck PAD had punisher restrain Tiger Shark by some ropes. Restraining someone from behind with cables isn't necessarily a strength feat and Thor could've easily replicate that feat under PAD.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Sandman has restrained Hulk by the same tactic. Heck PAD had punisher restrain Tiger Shark by some ropes. Restraining someone from behind with cables isn't necessarily a strength feat and Thor could've easily replicate that feat under PAD.

He did it with one hand.

Against someone like Hulk, all Thorina can do is get her ass whooped. And that's on a good day.

Those were chains, not ropes btw Fail is strong in TS, unfortunately. He even lost to Gargan

Can't see this ending well for J'onn. Apocalypse for the majority.

The problem is the recent push in Marvel for Apocalypse to raise his stock as a team threat.

Ever since Messiah War, with the revelation that victories over him being temporary wins over a weakened Apocalypse raises questions. If this is Poccy who can walk down Exodus, or Stryfe. Than the Martian has his plate full here.

Originally posted by "Id"
The problem is the recent push in Marvel for Apocalypse to raise his stock as a team threat.

Ever since Messiah War, with the revelation that victories over him being temporary wins over a weakened Apocalypse raises questions. If this is Poccy who can walk down Exodus, or Stryfe , or restrain Savage Hulk, or beat Prime Etnernal Ikaris, or drive off Loki, or go toe to toe with the High Evolutionary and more than hold his own, etc.... . Than the Martian has his plate full here.

Nah. Illegal alien speedblitz ftw, brah.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
He did it with one hand.

Against someone like Hulk, all Thorina can do is get her ass whooped. And that's on a good day.

Those were chains, not ropes btw Fail is strong in TS, unfortunately. He even lost to Gargan
Absorbing Man has done it too and that was with his natural strength.

Thor has never tried to restrain hulk in that way, if Apoc tried to slug it out with hulk he would be reduced to scraps.

^How do you figure?

Apocalypse did way better against Thor than any incarnation of the Hulk.

Thor has never tried to restrain hulk like apoc did and several characters like Namor and iron man have done way better than thor against hulk.

Thorina didn't try to restrain him because she was too busy getting raped.

Its Janithor stilt, you're slipping.

(S)he downgraded one more level, grew a vagina.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
(S)he downgraded one more level, grew a vagina.
When did that happen?

Every time Rage posts something, a fraction of thor dies.

in the hulk fight he chocked him to the point hulk couldn't stand and was forced to set there and listen to Apocalypse lecture him about how inferior hulk was to him and should be lucky to even be chosen most the time hulk would have attacked once he was let go but here he just sat there and listened there is a reason he was hurt more when apocalypse did this then against almost anyone else he ever fought and it doesn't matter if that thor was done by a different writer because it's all part of cannon and chronologically it was the same thor.

Originally posted by "Id"
The problem is the recent push in Marvel for Apocalypse to raise his stock as a team threat.

Ever since Messiah War, with the revelation that victories over him being temporary wins over a weakened Apocalypse raises questions. If this is Poccy who can walk down Exodus, or Stryfe. Than the Martian has his plate full here.

Indeed. In fact the only time a non-weakened Apocalypse was defeated was by Cyclops on the moon. And that was Scott channeling the power of the entire Summers line (including Hyperstorm, among others).