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VS


http://i42.tinypic.com/defpl.jpg


Lucifer from Shin Megami Tensei VS Lucifer Morningstar from DC/Vertigo Comics


Whom Take it?

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH SHIT MAN


I MADE HUGE MISTAKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I MENT TO PLACE THIS THREAD ON Foreign Cinema NOT HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



DOES ANYBODY KNOW HOW I CAN MOVE THIS THREAD TO Foreign Cinema PLEASE ANYBODY I NEED HELP MOVE THIS...

Some mod will move it, think you can PM a mod to do so.


I would say Lucy has more raw power and stats over Morningstar, just because a weaker characters multiversal feats are in the 'billions of universes effortlessly' range. Other than that it seems Lucy has more abilities and powers.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Some mod will move it, think you can PM a mod to do so.


I would say Lucy has more raw power and stats over Morningstar, just because a weaker characters multiversal feats are in the 'billions of universes effortlessly' range. Other than that it seems Lucy has more abilities and powers.


Wait lucifer is more powerful then lucifer morningstar???

ahhh great it been move to a Foreign Cinema. now the debate can begins

I would say Lucy has more raw power and stats over Morningstar, just because a weaker characters multiversal feats are in the 'billions of universes effortlessly' range. Other than that it seems Lucy has more abilities and powers.


I am sorry BloodRain BUT there no way in hell Lucifer From SMT is more powerful then Lucifer MorningStar. You talking about a being with the infinte will of God here..


I am gonna post many feat of Lucifer morningStar

I am sorry BloodRain BUT there no way in hell Lucifer From SMT is more powerful then Lucifer MorningStar. You talking about a being with the infinte will of God here..


I am gonna post many feat of Lucifer morningStar

1. Lucifer was once attacked by indestructable (even to him) beings yet he in seconds found there source through out all the world and killed them.

2. He is stronger then all the lords of hell including the endless. For example he speaks to dream about how other lords of hell speak as though they actually have deposed Lucifer he basically talks about it as a joke.


Dream is afraid of him in sandman saying he is probably the most powerful being in creation sept for his father (lucifers father) he also admitted to being weaker then him. Destiny wouldnt give lucifers brother a peak at his book micheal said either lend it or i take it.

3. when lucifers father left the universe two trolls got on the throne and took his power, they made a clone of lucifer using a womens memory, lucifer used this to his advantage by using the trolls own power against them in the past when they where not yet omnipatent, and so they died.

4. Lucifer was told to shut the gateway to his own universe or else, he got mad and actually made maybe millions out of that one gateway when before there was only one.

5. lucifer has defeated gods in there own realm while powerless, when he is at full power he can destroy a realm just by being there such as the house of windowless rooms where angels go when they die (not a pretty place)

6. There is a misconception of what lucifer created beyond his gateway well i am here to confirm he made a MULTIVERSE not a universe, this is confirmed in lucifer nirvana though i guess the mistake can be understood since this use to be a hard to get comic but now you can read it in lucifer 11 endsong but yes he is speaking to his gf, and she says you created your own realm, he says i qoute i didnt create a realm i created a totality a multiverse.



When creating his own multiverse he needs his brother's energy because its the energy that makes up the universe but lucifer is the will that made the multiverse of his father shaping it into planets, suns and everything even life he had his own adam and eve.


When making his own universe he stood ground zero at his brothers explosion of power, the host of angels from the silver city wouldnt dare trying to release his power in an already developed multiverse saying it would destroy everything this is also said again when they are fighting fenris and trying to save the multiverse from destruction after lucifer and micheals father leaves, lucifer and micheal are equal in power sept they do have diffrent powers but lucifer has defeated his brother

Lucifer power is sufficient to create an infinite number of multiverses as he is the will of god. in otherwords he is infinty reailty warper being.

Lucifer MorningStar>>>> Lucifer SMT

Lucifer Morningstar wins with ease

Here profile of Lucifer MorningStar for the sake of Augment guys


http://outskirtsbattledome.wikispaces.com/Character+Profile+-+Lucifer+Morningstar



Now this is Lucifer from Shin Megami Tensei profile


http://outskirtsbattledome.wikispaces.com/Character+Profile+-+Lucifer+%28SMT%29

Has it been stated that he can create an infinite number of multiverses? Because all I saw was him needing his brother in order to do so, and how many universes has he made, how fast?

Morningstar's will is infinite indeed, but he can't create something out of nothing. he needs Michael to do that and then he can manipulate that 'something' into virtually whatever he wants. and he's only been shown creating one universe that I am aware of in his comicbooks. as for the troll thing, well he knows that of course there was a time when they weren't practically omnipotent and set up a spell or something that killed them prior to becoming omnipotent. as for him killing gods in their realms... that's him being cunning, not him being powerful.

Well I'm not really sure about the whole tag-team creation thing, but he would need to be on a high multiversal level for this thread.


Lucy is somewhat stronger than Hitoshura. Hitoshura tanks attacks from Metatron. Metatron is more powerful than Kagutsuchi. Kagutsuchi could create, destroy and recreate billions of universes.

and apparently - I don't know where this was said - one of the people at Atlus said that SMT Lucifer has yet to unveil his true form (which is a combination of his angel form and devil form) and by extension has yet to use his full power.

O.o sweet.

my reaction was that too. thing is, this is more or less word of god, to use the name of a TV trope at least. we won't know for sure until it's confirmed by another Atlus person I guess. either that or Lucifer does go all out in a future SMT game.

Lucifer Morningstar wins because SMT is a terrible series and the people who like it are terrible people.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Lucifer Morningstar wins because SMT is a terrible series and the people who like it are terrible people.

Hey that bit rude dont you think?

I mean you title to your opinon on whom wins.
but the part you said people whom like SMT are terrible is desrespectful

Disrespect this.

*grabs crotch*

Originally posted by NemeBro
Disrespect this.

*grabs crotch*


Naw because..



http://i43.tinypic.com/1ryyx2.jpg

when on gods given earth has anyone in SMt ever busted a universe let alone a multiverse?

Originally posted by VastoLord1234
when on gods given earth has anyone in SMt ever busted a universe let alone a multiverse?

All the Kagutsuchi in Nocturne. They were busting billions of universes. Kagutsuchi is shit to Lucifer and YHVH.

Lucifer still stomps him into oblivion though, simply because he has shown able to manipulate, as I understand it, infinite energy in the form of his brother Michael.

SMT dante say hello to luficer morningstar

Originally posted by trexalfa
All the Kagutsuchi in Nocturne. They were busting billions of universes. Kagutsuchi is shit to Lucifer and YHVH.

Kagutsuchi never did that, the best feat in the entirety of nocturne was when demi fiend beat kagutsuchi and restarted time, thats it. And who said kagutsuchis shit to lucifer and YHWH?

Lucifer tanked the big bang without a scratch which created a Multiverse......

Lucifer destroyed the infinite purgatory of gods creation that's Multiverse+ destruction.

Lucifer Morningstar wins.

Originally posted by EmptyHearted
Hey that bit rude dont you think?

I mean you title to your opinon on whom wins.
but the part you said people whom like SMT are terrible is desrespectful

You don't **** with Nemebro, dude, you just don't.

...Unless you're Peach.

Originally posted by BeyonderGod
Lucifer tanked the big bang without a scratch which created a Multiverse......

Lucifer destroyed the infinite purgatory of gods creation that's Multiverse+ destruction.

Lucifer Morningstar wins.

Do you have the scan of lucifer busting purgatory?

I'll look.

Originally posted by trexalfa
All the Kagutsuchi in Nocturne. They were busting billions of universes. Kagutsuchi is shit to Lucifer and YHVH.
Aren't you a bit confused? Kagutsuchi is nothing more than build-in system in Amara universe to manage cycles of death & rebirth of universe. It's not like he's using any actual power to do that.

And busting billions of them? There's that many universes. But it's not like all of them are destroyed and recreated at the same time constantly. Conception occurs only when universe will be close to its demise, and we don't know how many of them are dying at once.

Originally posted by Miraijin
Aren't you a bit confused? Kagutsuchi is nothing more than build-in system in Amara universe to manage cycles of death & rebirth of universe. It's not like he's using any actual power to do that.

And busting billions of them? There's that many universes. But it's not like all of them are destroyed and recreated at the same time constantly. Conception occurs only when universe will be close to its demise, and we don't know how many of them are dying at once.

Kagutsuchi is an avatar of YHVH. Its power is a very little fraction of his.

And yes, billions being destroyed and recreated at once. The scenes with the Lady in Black in Nocturne tell you everything about this.

"In the vast Amala Universe, this Vortex World is not the only place where creation occurs. Kagutsuchi rises, matures, and falls in countless other places. There are millions--no, billions of worlds that you are unaware of, and they all experience the cycle of death and rebirth. That is the way of Amala, as determined by the Great Will." - Lady in Black

This's part you're talking about. It only tells you they all experience cycle of death and rebirth. Not that they experience it all at the same time. If I said "every human experiences death"then it means we all die at once? No, just that any human will die someday.

Great Will you mean. YHWH aka the 'floating head' from SMT2 is still just an avatar. Just a loser who think too highly of himself. He needs human faith to even function, he was beaten by Mother Earth after he was low human's faith.

Kagutsuchi is pretty much useless against multiversal debates. He's just a mechanism of Amala universe. He can't extert this amount of power in crossover battle like this since by default they aren't in Amala universe.And even if the were, he can only start new cycle of the universe which meet its demise.

tl;dr this's not for a comat usage

Great Will's never have shown to take action against anyone (his avatars function independently from him), so we can't judge his power at all. And why do you bring him here at all? It's Kagutsuchi fighting if you didn't noticed.

Originally posted by Miraijin
"In the vast Amala Universe, this Vortex World is not the only place where creation occurs. Kagutsuchi rises, matures, and falls in countless other places. There are millions--no, billions of worlds that you are unaware of, and they all experience the cycle of death and rebirth. That is the way of Amala, as determined by the Great Will." - Lady in Black

This's part you're talking about. It only tells you they all experience cycle of death and rebirth. Not that they experience it all at the same time. If I said "every human experiences death"then it means we all die at once? No, just that any human will die someday.

Great Will you mean. YHWH aka the 'floating head' from SMT2 is still just an avatar. Just a loser who think too highly of himself. He needs human faith to even function, he was beaten by Mother Earth after he was low human's faith.

Kagutsuchi is pretty much useless against multiversal debates. He's just a mechanism of Amala universe. He can't extert this amount of power in crossover battle like this since by default they aren't in Amala universe.And even if the were, he can only start new cycle of the universe which meet its demise.

tl;dr this's not for a comat usage

Great Will's never have shown to take action against anyone (his avatars function independently from him), so we can't judge his power at all. And why do you bring him here at all? It's Kagutsuchi fighting if you didn't noticed.

Oh god, here we go. The classic "only works in the setting" fallacy. In versus, we use feats. Kagutsuchi destroys universes in SMT, so can he do here. Even if he was just a system (he is an avatar), he still uses power from YHVH, and a very little fraction at that (and that stuff about the Great Will you are sprouting is just a theory based on a pretty ****ing vague fan-translation of SMT II and of Megami Tensei II. All subsequent games have implied that Great Will=YHVH).

Translations? Indeed they're terrible. That's why people speak such a nonsense, as I had played original version.
Sure we use feats, but Kagutsuchi didn't destroyed anything. He's just a process to transmigrate new order onto dying universe.

And allow me to correct myself. Great Will is still referred as a YHWH (both names apply to him), but SMT2 version is still just an avatar, despite his arrogant boasting.

And nice job ignoring rest of my post. How about you give my a prove he destroyes billions of them at the same time?

Originally posted by Miraijin
Translations? Indeed they're terrible. That's why people speak such a nonsense, as I had played original version.
Sure we use feats, but Kagutsuchi didn't destroyed anything. He's just a process to transmigrate new order onto dying universe.

And allow me to correct myself. Great Will is still referred as a YHWH (both names apply to him), but SMT2 version is still just an avatar, despite his arrogant boasting.

And nice job ignoring rest of my post. How about you give my a prove he destroyes billions of them at the same time?

We see Conception taking place on screen. Later, in any of the Reason endings the Demi Fiend uses Kagutsuchi's power to recreate the universe.

And the passage of the Lady in Black does imply that number of worlds are experiencing Conception right that moment.

We only see how Conception would look like, it's not like Conception occured at the same time, just a vizualization. He does, but already dead one.

Not it doesn't. If they all would experience Conception at the same time then freaking humans wouldn't have a break. You even have this part:

"Kagutsuchi rises, matures, and falls in countless other places."

It's not like he destroys and recreates goddamn universes all the time because it's not his role. Play a game. You have a lot of mentions that energy of the universe is finite and they have to perfom Conception to reborn it. But only if energy will be low, only then Conception occurs.

Heard about Shadow Vortex? I suggest you to check it up. Because this disproves your theory too.