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The Runner with a Primary Adamantium Katana runs the following gauntlet under these conditions: all fight are to the Death or KO with no BFR allowed and the Runner can not be disarmed in any of his fights...

1) Blood and Thunder Thor (no Power Gem)...
2) Morg with WoL...
3) Thanos...
4) Bor...
5) Surtur...
6) Surtur with Twilight...

How far does the Runner with an Adamantium Katana get?

Makes it to Surtur imo

Originally posted by golem370
Makes it to Surtur imo

Make sure to vote!

He'd probably clear it.

I think Surtur alone could take him but with the sword might be spite

Originally posted by golem370
I think Surtur alone could take him but with the sword might be spite

Question: how does Surtur win here? What has Surtur done to suggest that he can tag the Runner?

He has fought Odin right and Surtur even though big should be fast. Better question is can Runner hurt Surtur?

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Question: how does Surtur win here? What has Surtur done to suggest that he can tag the Runner?


lol wtf has runner done? your talking about the real deal here not some schmuck who got owned by thanos

Stops at Morg

Originally posted by Sin I AM
lol wtf has runner done? your talking about the real deal here not some schmuck who got owned by thanos

Good point.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
lol wtf has runner done? your talking about the real deal here not some schmuck who got owned by thanos

Loki and Thor have hurt Surtur with Twilight (remember The Surtur Saga?); the Runner is more powerful than either of them and has a Primary Adamantium Katana...he can definitely hurt Surtur.

Btw, what has the Runner done? Effortlessly beat the Surfer and was running rings around Thanos while tagging him and Thanos couldnt do anything about it until the runner stopped running and talked...

Originally posted by zopzop
Stops at Morg

How does Morg beat him? Whats to stop the Runner from beheading him in the 1st second of the fight?

Originally posted by golem370
He has fought Odin right and Surtur even though big should be fast. Better question is can Runner hurt Surtur?

The Runner absolutely can hurt Surtur; he could hurt Surtur even if he didnt have an Adamantium Katana...

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Loki and Thor have hurt Surtur with Twilight (remember The Surtur Saga?); the Runner is more powerful than either of them and has a Primary Adamantium Katana...he can definitely hurt Surtur.

Btw, what has the Runner done? Effortlessly beat the Surfer and was running rings around Thanos while tagging him and Thanos couldnt do anything about it until the runner stopped running and talked...


the twilight sword is hax....Ares beat Ymir with it (yes Ares) so loki and thor using it to beat Surtur isnt a stretch

besides he didnt even know the extent of his own powerset and still got one-upped by thanos...im not exactly sure what u all think a an unbreakable sword will do i mean surtur is skyfather level...physically runner is beneath him

Originally posted by Sin I AM
the twilight sword is hax....Ares beat Ymir with it (yes Ares) so loki and thor using it to beat Surtur isnt a stretch

besides he didnt even know the extent of his own powerset and still got one-upped by thanos...im not exactly sure what u all think a an unbreakable sword will do i mean surtur is skyfather level...physically runner is beneath him

Thor and Loki hurt a Twilight wielding Surtur under their own power (no amps or anything that isnt standard for either of them); look it up...the scans are everywhere.

So yeah, the Runner will hurt Surtur and hurt him bad...

Now, I ask again, what does Surtur have under his belt that suggests that he'll be able to land a single blow against the Runner?

Yeah, Surtur is much more powerful than the Runner, but that doesnt garantee that he could beat the Runner under these conditions either...

I will now present you with a pic of Thor harming a Twilight weilding Surtur under his own power; why cant the Runner (who is beyond Thor) equal or exceed the following?

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Thor and Loki hurt a Twilight wielding Surtur under their own power (no amps or anything that isnt standard for either of them); look it up...the scans are everywhere.

So yeah, the Runner will hurt Surtur and hurt him bad...

Now, I ask again, what does Surtur have under his belt that suggests that he'll be able to land a single blow against the Runner?

Yeah, Surtur is much more powerful than the Runner, but that doesnt garantee that he could beat the Runner under these conditions either...


id have to re-read the surtur saga...i dont recall that.

Anywho he's destroyed galaxies and hung with odin

Now, here is Loki harming a Twilight weilding Surtur under his own power; you really believe the Runner cant exceed this?

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Now, here is Loki harming a Twilight weilding Surtur under his own power; you really believe the Runner cant exceed this?

i have to see the context of thise scans

Hurting Surtur is one thing.

Actually defeating him, which has on two occasions caused Odin to either die or come very close to it, is something else entirely.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Hurting Surtur is one thing.

Actually defeating him, which has on two occasions caused Odin to either die or come very close to it, is something else entirely.

Very true, but I'll ask again: how does Surtur win here?

I can vividly see the Runner slicing Surtur and running....slicing Surtur and running...while never getting hit in the process.

Loki (who is much slower than the Runner) was successfully hitting and running against Surtur until he got tired (Loki did have his illusions distracting Surtur as well though); the Runner (having the Power Primordial to draw upon) surely has greater stamina than Loki, so should be able to hit and run against Surtur for a long, long, time...

Maybe even long enough to beat him...

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Very true, but I'll ask again: how does Surtur win here?

I can vividly see the Runner slicing Surtur and running....slicing Surtur and running...while never getting hit in the process.

Loki (who is much slower than the Runner) was successfully hitting and running against Surtur until he got tired (Loki did have his illusions distracting Surtur as well though); the Runner (having the Power Primordial to draw upon) surely has greater stamina than Loki, so should be able to hit and run against Surtur for a long, long, time...

Maybe even long enough to beat him...


he's never displayed the strength feats to show that he can go toe to toe with surtur...or even hurt him significantly

Originally posted by Sin I AM
he's never displayed the strength feats to show that he can go toe to toe with surtur...or even hurt him significantly

??

The Runner easily overpowered someone (the Silver Surfer) who's been shown to be a peer to Thor on several occasions; if Thor and Loki's power is enough to harm Surtur, then the Runner can definitely do it...

And besides, the last thing the Runner will do is fight Surtur toe to toe; he'll slice Surtur and run until he drops...

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Very true, but I'll ask again: how does Surtur win here?

I can vividly see the Runner slicing Surtur and running....slicing Surtur and running...while never getting hit in the process.

Loki (who is much slower than the Runner) was successfully hitting and running against Surtur until he got tired (Loki did have his illusions distracting Surtur as well though); the Runner (having the Power Primordial to draw upon) surely has greater stamina than Loki, so should be able to hit and run against Surtur for a long, long, time...

Maybe even long enough to beat him...

Considering Surtur can destroy galaxies even without Twilight, I don't think Runner will be impossible for him to hit. Surtur is also an ancient elemental force that predates Asgardians, so, by all rights, his stamina should be high end in his own right.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
??

The Runner easily overpowered someone (the Silver Surfer) who's been shown to be a peer to Thor on several occasions; if Thor and Loki's power is enough to harm Surtur, then the Runner can definitely do it...

And besides, the last thing the Runner will do is fight Surtur toe to toe; he'll slice Surtur and run until he drops...


i havent seen the entirety of that fight just scans, there is probably context t go along with it to explain it...otherwise it would seem to be pis to me especially knowing what he has done to odin and what he means to asgard. plus your taking wayyyy to much stock in the surfer battle....thanos has over-powered him as well, and quite easily

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Considering Surtur can destroy galaxies even without Twilight, I don't think Runner will be impossible for him to hit. Surtur is also an ancient elemental force that predates Asgardians, so, by all rights, his stamina should be high end in his own right.

1) That galaxy destroying feat wasnt even on panel; he's definitely never shown that kind of power during combat...

2) Yes, Surtur has tremendous stamina, but that doesnt equate to speed, and since Loki was successfully hitting and running against Surtur (until he got tired) the Runner should be able to do so far, far, easier and longer than Loki could....and the Runner has a Primary Adamantium Katana here.

Add that up, and Surtur is in trouble in this matchup...

Originally posted by Sin I AM
i havent seen the entirety of that fight just scans, there is probably context t go along with it to explain it...otherwise it would seem to be pis to me especially knowing what he has done to odin and what he means to asgard. plus your taking wayyyy to much stock in the surfer battle....thanos has over-powered him as well, and quite easily

Check it out; there were no extenuating circumstances to those fights...

Thor and Loki were both portrayed as very powerful however, but they had no amps or anything of that nature...

In addition, Surtur was actually growing stronger and stronger as he neared the Eternal Flame (which was located in Asgard); Twilight linked Surtur to the Flame so he could constantly replenish his strength during that arc...thats one of the reasons he was able to defeat Odin (the other was because of the power of the Casket of Ancient Winters which Surtur was able to draw upon via Twilight).

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Considering Surtur can destroy galaxies even without Twilight, I don't think Runner will be impossible for him to hit. Surtur is also an ancient elemental force that predates Asgardians, so, by all rights, his stamina should be high end in his own right.
When did Surtur destroy a single galaxy (let alone GALAXIES) without Twilight?

The most we've ever seen that I can recall is that he destroyed a galactic core.
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
How does Morg beat him? Whats to stop the Runner from beheading him in the 1st second of the fight?
Wait, you could have a point. I guess if Morg w/WoL isn't fast enough to keep up with the Runner he's in trouble. But for sure Morg w/WoL is powerful enough to take him out if he connects.

Also I find it funny that people believe that Thor or Loki hurting Surtur isn't PIS, yet Runner (a Trans Tier being) being able to AT LEAST harm Surtur is out of the question?

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
I will now present you with a pic of Thor harming a Twilight weilding Surtur under his own power; why cant the Runner (who is beyond Thor) equal or exceed the following? Because an adamantium katana=/=Mjolnir. srsly

Originally posted by Galan007
Because an adamantium katana=/=Mjolnir. srsly
An adamantium katana wielded by a Trans Tier being capable of FTL battle speed.

Originally posted by Galan007
Because an adamantium katana=/=Mjolnir. srsly

This, too.

Originally posted by zopzop
An adamantium katana wielded by a Trans Tier being capable of FTL battle speed. Cool. It's still not equal to a Skyfather-enchanted magical item.

Originally posted by Galan007
Cool. It's still not equal to a Skyfather-enchanted magical item.
And how does that explain Loki harming Surtur? FAIL.

Originally posted by zopzop
And how does that explain Loki harming Surtur? FAIL.

Fail? Nah, brah.

Originally posted by zopzop
And how does that explain Loki harming Surtur? FAIL. Nice dodge.

Originally posted by Galan007
Because an adamantium katana=/=Mjolnir. srsly The katana would zop Mjolnir in half.

Pretty sure Loki's energy projection and sorcery is by default significantly more powerful than an unbreakable sword.

Originally posted by Galan007
Nice dodge.
How is a dodge? Even if we believe Thor hurling Mjolnir at Surtur > a Trans Tier being like the Runner wielding an adamantium sword at FTL speeds, how do you explain how Loki hurt Surtur?

He's a herald level being and he has NO skyfather level artifact.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Pretty sure Loki's energy projection and sorcery is by default significantly more powerful than an unbreakable sword.
And Runner is significantly more powerful than Loki. So........

You biches dun just got zopped.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
You biches dun just got zopped. Yes, the zoppage is strong in this thread.

Stops at 5 for sure

Originally posted by Galan007
Yes, the zoppage is strong in this thread.

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/21496411.jpg

Originally posted by zopzop
Stops at Morg
Originally posted by zopzop
Wait, you could have a point. I guess if Morg w/WoL isn't fast enough to keep up with the Runner he's in trouble. But for sure Morg w/WoL is powerful enough to take him out if he connects.
http://www.talkingelectronics.com/FreeProjects/5-Projects/The-flip-flop-in-action-complete.gif

Originally posted by zopzop
And how does that explain Loki harming Surtur? FAIL.



You guys are f**king with zop, but he's 100% correct; Loki was harming Surtur under his own power, and if he can do it, then a Trans Tier running around at FTL combat speed weilding a Primary Adamantium weapon is doing it too...

You guys are just reaching for a reason why the Runner cant win, but the fact of the matter is that the Runner only loses if he screws around and allows Surtur to hit him flush; given the dramatic difference in combat speed, thats the only way Surtur has a chance on any kind here...

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Pretty sure Loki's energy projection and sorcery is by default significantly more powerful than an unbreakable sword.

Ok...back this up with more than speculation then; give me some feats from Loki that would suggest that this is true.

Keep in mind that Primary Admantium stabbed right through an Infinity Gauntlet amped Thanos before you respond, so my position involves more than idle speculation...

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Stops at 5 for sure

And I'll ask you the same question that I've asked everyone else (that they have all failed to give an adequate answer to); how does Surtur beat a Primary Adamantium Katana weilding Runner thats hitting and running at FTL combat speed?

Before you answer, Surtur was so slow that he couldnt stop Loki can having success against him with this exact same tactic, and was only able to catch up to Loki after Loki got tired; the Runner is linked to the Power Primordial, so wont have that same problem...

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
http://www.talkingelectronics.com/FreeProjects/5-Projects/The-flip-flop-in-action-complete.gif
Aww look at you trying to be funny.

But if you bothered to READ and UNDERSTAND what I wrote, you'd see I'm right. In terms of sheer power, Morg w/WoL can hurt/KO Runner, IF HE CATCHES HIM.

This is how fast Runner thinks and reacts. Makkari broke some kind of speed barrier and the rest of the universe looked like they were standing still, this included beings like Eternals and even Elders. The only people capable of interacting with him were "hyperfast" creatures and beings that could manipulate space/time :
http://s4.postimg.org/wzstwk9u1/toofast.jpg http://s4.postimg.org/6q3600yix/toofast2.jpg

Anyone on this list that isn't a "hyperfast" Speedster or has the ability to manipulate space/time, is basically a statue vs a PISLESS/CISLESS Runner.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder


You guys are f**king with zop, but he's 100% correct; Loki was harming Surtur under his own power, and if he can do it, then a Trans Tier running around at FTL combat speed weilding a Primary Adamantium weapon is doing it too...

You guys are just reaching for a reason why the Runner cant win, but the fact of the matter is that the Runner only loses if he screws around and allows Surtur to hit him flush; given the dramatic difference in combat speed, thats the only way Surtur has a chance on any kind here...
Yup. Soon after I typed my original response, I remembered that Quasar/Makkari/Runner incident.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Ok...back this up with more than speculation then; give me some feats from Loki that would suggest that this is true.

Keep in mind that Primary Admantium stabbed right through an Infinity Gauntlet amped Thanos before you respond, so my position involves more than idle speculation...

Back up the stance that Loki's sorcery is more potent by default than unbreakable metal?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Back up the stance that Loki's sorcery is more potent by default than unbreakable metal?

Absolutely...back up your stance with feats; I have Primary Adamantium slicing right through an Infinity Gauntlet amped being...what feat does Loki's magic have thats "more potent" than that?

Nothing at all...

Your argument fails; the Runner with a Primary Adamantium weapon should be fully capable of harming Surtur...and to a greater extent than Loki's magic did.

^
IIRC Thanos sort of depowered himself before he fought the heroes because he didn't want it to be so easy. Drax and Hulk were able to affect him with punches when really they shouldn't have. Wolverine stabing Thanos is not going to work on any IG wielder if serious.

I agree that a CISless Runner would clear this tho.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Ok...back this up with more than speculation then; give me some feats from Loki that would suggest that this is true.

Keep in mind that Primary Admantium stabbed right through an Infinity Gauntlet amped Thanos before you respond, so my position involves more than idle speculation...

Loki's magic turns Bor into snow, can an adamantium katana replicate this feat?

Originally posted by zopzop
This is how fast Runner thinks and reacts. Makkari broke some kind of speed barrier and the rest of the universe looked like they were standing still, this included beings like Eternals and even Elders. The only people capable of interacting with him were "hyperfast" creatures and beings that could manipulate space/time :
http://s4.postimg.org/wzstwk9u1/toofast.jpg http://s4.postimg.org/6q3600yix/toofast2.jpg I remember that comic-- it's the one where Makkari owned Runner in a race by traveling at light speed.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Loki's magic turns Bor into snow, can an adamantium katana replicate this feat?

Apples to oranges...

Besides an IG amped Thanos>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bor.

As pertains the IG saga, Thanos merely cut off his sensory input when he fought the heroes (so that he wouldnt know their next move), but he retained infinite power...

LoL with the attempts to ignore the obvious truth; the Runner with a Primary Adamantium Katana clears this gauntlet...

Originally posted by Galan007
I remember that comic-- it's the one where Makkari owned Runner in a race by traveling at light speed.

Unfortunately, Surtur has demostrated no where near that speed in combat; Surtur is even slower than Loki...

Surtur gets owned by the Runner in this senario...

That is a laughable assertion, at best.

Originally posted by Sundipped
I agree that a CISless Runner would clear this tho.



I created this thread with the hypothesis that the Runner with a Primary Adamantium Katana would be a Skyfather level threat as pertains on on one combat; I was looking for a counter-argument against my hypothesis, but so far I havent seen a single argument that holds enough weight to contradict it...

We are in agreement; the Runner clears this gauntlet...

Originally posted by Galan007
That is a laughable assertion, at best.

And yet you cant come up with a rational argument that holds enough weight to contradict that belief...

Runner has beaten Surfer and Thanos. Those are his 2 best feats, by far. Yet somehow giving him an adamantium club shoots him up to being able to defeat a high-end Skyfather?

Like I said: that is a laughable assertion, at best.

Originally posted by Galan007
Runner has beaten Surfer and Thanos. Those are his 2 best feats, by far. Yet somehow giving him an adamantium club shoots him up to being able to defeat a high-end Skyfather?

Like I said: that is a laughable assertion, at best.

Power doesnt always equate to superior combat ability; go back through this thread and tell me exactly how Surtur wins based on what has been written here...

Your argument so far is nothing more than Surtur wins because hes a Skyfather, but thats a BS argument as he cant beat what he cant hit...furthermore I have shown siginificantly lesser characters successfully both speed blitzing and harming Surtur.

All evidence points to this being a very, very, bad matchup for Surtur...

Why ignore the truth?


PS...its an Adamantium Katana, not a club; are you posting without even knowing what you are talking about? LoL...

I don't get why the adamantium katana makes such a difference here.

I'm not sure Bor would be very much harmed by it under normal circumstances. Bor's skin was literally harder than Mjolnir, which in turn went completely unscratched by Wolverine's adamantium claws. Even if it's a Trans-level being, I'd imagine that any significant damage with it would come at a cost, like it shattering. The same way an all-out amped Mjolnir strike did when it struck Bor flush.

As for Surtur, it'd be like a tiny needle. Maybe he gets his eye poked out, but pretty sure it doesn't become much more of a nuisance to him. And even if it's plunged into him... I'm inclined to think it'd melt or slag.

The adamantium sword itself becomes more and more meaningless the higher this goes.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Apples to oranges...

Besides an IG amped Thanos>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bor.

As pertains the IG saga, Thanos merely cut off his sensory input when he fought the heroes (so that he wouldnt know their next move), but he retained infinite power...

LoL with the attempts to ignore the obvious truth; the Runner with a Primary Adamantium Katana clears this gauntlet...

IG Thanos that weakened himself and gave the heroes a chance to win you mean?

Originally posted by ODG
I don't get why the adamantium katana makes such a difference here.

I'm not sure Bor would be very much harmed by it under normal circumstances. Bor's skin was literally harder than Mjolnir, which in turn went completely unscratched by Wolverine's adamantium claws. Even if it's a Trans-level being, I'd imagine that any significant damage with it would come at a cost, like it shattering. The same way an all-out amped Mjolnir strike did when it struck Bor flush.

As for Surtur, it'd be like a tiny needle. Maybe he gets his eye poked out, but pretty sure it doesn't become much more of a nuisance to him. And even if it's plunged into him... I'm inclined to think it'd melt or slag.

The adamantium sword itself becomes more and more meaningless the higher this goes.

But what happens to Surtur when he's stuck by that tiny needle a million times? It'll all add up (and if 1 million needle picks dont do the job, then the Runner will double that; he draws strength from the Power Primordial...stamina isnt an issue), and theres no evidence to suggest that Surturs innards are hot enough to melt Primary Adamantium...

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
IG Thanos that weakened himself and gave the heroes a chance to win you mean?

Did you bother reading? He only cut off sensory input so that he wouldnt know the heroes next move...he retained infinite power.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
But what happens to Surtur when he's stuck by that tiny needle a million times? It'll all add up (and if 1 million needle picks dont do the job, then the Runner will double that; he draws strength from the Power Primordial...stamina isnt an issue), and theres no evidence to suggest that Surturs innards are hot enough to melt Primary Adamantium... I imagine Surtur'd be annoyed by being pinpricked a million times. Err... Surtur contains enough power in his body to destroy a universe.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Power doesnt always equate to superior combat ability; go back through this thread and tell me exactly how Surtur wins based on what has been written here...

Your argument so far is nothing more than Surtur wins because hes a Skyfather, but thats a BS argument as he cant beat what he cant hit...furthermore I have shown siginificantly lesser characters successfully both speed blitzing and harming Surtur.

All evidence points to this being a very, very, bad matchup for Surtur...

Why ignore the truth?


PS...its an Adamantium Katana, not a club; are you posting without even knowing what you are talking about? LoL... facepalm

Can you point me to an instance in which Surtur was harmed by non-magical energies/items? Because I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the notion that a generic adamantium sword would give Runner an advantage against a Skyfather-level being whom is: "more a force of nature, limitless in power, than a physical foe."
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15813888/Thor_v2_040_06.jpg.html
(Frankly, I'd be shocked if an adamantium katana could even pierce Surtur's hide.)

Hell it took the combined power of Odin+Thor+Loki, just to knock Surtur down:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15813909/1.jpg.html

...Said attack(s) caused him absolutely no lasting damage, btw:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15813910/2.jpg.html
Runner /w/ a sword>>Odin+Thor+Loki? Get real.

Hell even a swordless Surtur was still equal to full-power Odin(the same Odin that Galactus himself was hard-pressed to defeat):
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15813911/3.jpg.html
Runner /w/ a sword>> FP Odin? Get real.

Originally posted by ODG
I imagine Surtur'd be annoyed by being pinpricked a million times. Err... Surtur contains enough power in his body to destroy a universe.

So you think it would be a stalemate then?

Btw, a Twilight weilding Surtur was more than "annoyed" by Thor and Loki's attacks (and I know you've read the Surtur Saga; its all on panel and I can show it), but you simutaneously think the Runner can do nothing but annoy Surtur?

That doesnt add up...

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
So you think it would be a stalemate then?

Btw, a Twilight weilding Surtur was more than "annoyed" by Thor and Loki's attacks (and I know you've read the Surtur Saga; its all on panel and I can show it), but you simutaneously think the Runner can do nothing but annoy Surtur?

That doesnt add up... I don't get your disbelief. I feel it has more to do with semantics over what you think "annoyed" means more than anything else.

Originally posted by Galan007
facepalm

Can you point me to an instance in which Surtur was harmed by non-magical energies/items? Because I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the notion that a generic adamantium sword would give Runner an advantage against a Skyfather-level being whom is: "more a force of nature, limitless in power, than a physical foe."
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15813888/Thor_v2_040_06.jpg.html
(Frankly, I'd be shocked if an adamantium katana could even pierce Surtur's hide.)

Hell it took the combined power of Odin+Thor+Loki, just to knock Surtur down:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15813909/1.jpg.html

...Said attack(s) caused him absolutely no lasting damage, btw:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15813910/2.jpg.html
Runner /w/ a sword>>Odin+Thor+Loki? Get real.

Hell even a swordless Surtur was still equal to full-power Odin(the same Odin that Galactus himself was hard-pressed to defeat):
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15813911/3.jpg.html
Runner /w/ a sword>> FP Odin? Get real.

Excellent, so now you then acknowledge that you have no conception of what "context" is and admit that you never read the Surtur Saga! Thanks for the honesty!!

The reason why none of the damage produced lasting damage is because Surtur was able to draw upon the power of the Eternal Flame (via Twilight) to constantly replenish his strength in that arc...

Well guess what? The Eternal Flame is not in this senario, so he wont be able to constantly replenish his strength via Twilight...will he?

You argument equals fail; so what if his overall power level is equal to Odins...Surtur isnt as versatile with the use of his power as Odin is...

And you still have nothing to suggest that Surtur can ever lay a hand on the Runner as Surtur is slower than Loki combat wise...

Combine that with the fact that (for a Skyfather level being), Surtur doesnt have the greatest durability, and Surtur has a bad matchup on his hands when he faces off against the Runner...

Logic 101; class is on Mon/Weds/Fri...9-10am...be there!

Originally posted by ODG
I don't get your disbelief. I feel it has more to do with semantics over what you think "annoyed" means more than anything else.

I know what Surtur said, so it has nothing to do with semantics...

So, is this a stalemate then? If not, explain how Surtur wins since you seem to be suggesting just that...

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
I know what Surtur said, so it has nothing to do with semantics...

So, is this a stalemate then? If not, explain how Surtur wins since you seem to suggesting just that... Sounds to me like you're just projecting Mjolnir's ability to hurt Skyfathers+Abstracts onto a simple adamantium sword. Which wouldn't be semantics, but something else entirely.

I dunno, let's loose a controlled blast of flame that incinerates the immediate area?

Originally posted by Galan007
I remember that comic-- it's the one where Makkari owned Runner in a race by traveling at light speed.
Yeah, then you'd remember that fact that hyper speedsters like him and Runner see other beings around them as statues, UNLESS the beings are hyper speedsters like themselves or can manipulate space/time.

Also, Makkarai isn't in the list of people Runner is up against. More fail from you.

@LoM
Excellent point you made regarding Surtur vs Odin in terms of power versatility. I think that was even mentioned in a handbook entry too.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Excellent, so now you then acknowledge that you have no conception of what "context" is and admit that you never read the Surtur Saga! Thanks for the honesty!!

The reason why none of the damage produced lasting damage is because Surtur was able to draw upon the power of the Eternal Flame (via Twilight) to constantly replenish his strength in that arc...

Well guess what? The Eternal Flame is not in this senario, so he wont be able to constantly replenish his strength via Twilight...will he?

You argument equals fail; so what if his overall power level is equal to Odins...Surtur isnt as versatile with the use of his power as Odin is...

And you still have nothing to suggest that Surtur can ever lay a hand on the Runner as Surtur is slower than Loki combat wise...

Combine that with the fact that (for a Skyfather level being), Surtur doesnt have the greatest durability, and Surtur has a bad matchup on his hands when he faces off against the Runner...

Logic 101; class is on Mon/Weds/Fri...9-10am...be there!

Wait, so you're giving Surtur the Twilight Sword in this battle, but not allowing him to use it for what it was created for(ie. channeling power from the Eternal Flame)..? Makes sense(dur).

After all, I suppose neutering a character's power that you're debating against is the easiest way to aid your argument(even though it really doesn't, as Surtur is still equal to Odin, even w/o the Sword.) If you ever make a Thanos /w/ IG thread, you should give Thanos all of the infinity gems, but not allow him to use any of their powers... That'd make about as much sense as what you're doing here.


Anywho, you completely dodged my initial question. Again:

Originally posted by ODG
Sounds to me like you're just projecting Mjolnir's ability to hurt Skyfathers+Abstracts onto a simple adamantium sword. Which wouldn't be semantics, but something else entirely.

I dunno, let's loose a controlled blast of flame that incinerates the immediate area?

You do know of the Runners combat speed? That blast of flame would be moving in very slow motion from the Runners point of view; he could evade that without effort...

He was laughing at Thanos when Thanos attempted to blast him by running circles around him; this would be no different...

Originally posted by ODG
I'm not sure Bor would be very much harmed by it under normal circumstances. Bor's skin was literally harder than Mjolnir, which in turn went completely unscratched by Wolverine's adamantium claws. Even if it's a Trans-level being, I'd imagine that any significant damage with it would come at a cost, like it shattering. The same way an all-out amped Mjolnir strike did when it struck Bor flush.
IIRC, Wolverine has failed to penetrate Colossus' hide in an older encounter, not to mention that he barely scratched Thor himself(?). If that is the case, then I don't think using Wolverine's claws would be a good way to gauge which is more durable between Mjolnir(or a skyfather's skin) and adamantium. I do think that the Runner too would end up only kitty-scratching Surtur here.

Originally posted by Galan007
Wait, so you're giving Surtur the Twilight Sword in this battle, but not allowing him to use it for what it was created for(ie. channeling power from the Eternal Flame)..? Makes sense(dur).

After all, I suppose neutering a character's power that you're debating against is the easiest way to aid your argument(even though it really doesn't, as Surtur is still equal to Odin, even w/o the Sword.) If you ever make a Thanos /w/ IG thread, you should give Thanos all of the infinity gems, but not allow him to use any of their powers... That'd make about as much sense as what you're doing here.


Anywho, you completely dodged my initial question. Again:
How many times has he had his sword and channeled the Eternal Flame?

Originally posted by zopzop
Yeah, then you'd remember that fact that hyper speedsters like him and Runner see other beings around them as statues, UNLESS the beings are hyper speedsters like themselves or can manipulate space/time.

Also, Makkarai isn't in the list of people Runner is up against. More fail from you.

The point of that post, dear zop, is that per the comic you're quoting, Runner cannot equal(let alone exceed) the speed of light. Surfer, for example, would demolish him in a race(based on that comic.)

Originally posted by zopzop
How many times has he had his sword and channeled the Eternal Flame? He keeps referring people to the original Surtur/Twilight saga, dear zop. Based on that, his original intention seemed overtly clear to me. Naturally, though, he's opting to change his stance a bit.

ie. he/you can post scans of Thor/Loki 'harming' Surtur, but when I post good Surtur-feats from that same arc, they're inadmissible. Perfectly logical amirite?

@Galan 007

So what if he is more than a physical foe; others that are "more than physical" have been harmed by non-magical attacks before afterall...

In the Surtur Saga, Heimdall staggered Surtur just by throwing his body into him; Surtur is very vulnerable to physical non-magical attacks...its right there on panel.

Originally posted by Galan007
He keeps referring people to the original Surtur/Twilight saga, dear zop. Based on that, his original intention seemed overtly clear to me. Naturally, though, he's opting to change his stance a bit.

ie. he/you can post scans of Thor/Loki 'harming' Surtur, but when I post good feats from that same arc, they're inadmissible. Perfectly logical amirite?

What stance am I changing? Be specific...

I never said your scans were inadmissible btw (you lack reading comprehension as well?); I countered your stance that Odin, Loki, and Thor's combined attack did no lasting damage with the context of what was going on...

I mean its clear that you never actually read the arc, but are commenting on it afterall...

So once again, you argument fails...

Originally posted by Galan007


The point of that post, dear zop, is that per the comic you're quoting, Runner cannot equal(let alone exceed) the speed of light. Surfer, for example, would demolish him in a race(based on that comic.)

And Surtur cant equal Loki...so the Runner annihilates Surtur as pertains combat speed...right?

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
You do know of the Runners combat speed? That blast of flame would be moving in very slow motion from the Runners point of view; he could evade that without effort...

He was laughing at Thanos when Thanos attempted to blast him by running circles around him; this would be no different... I do. I am also aware that comic speedsters who attempt endless in-and-out hit-and-runs to effect superficially insignificant damage to their opponent usually end up being thwarted by a sudden and unexpected AoE attack pretty much every time ever in the history of comics.

Well, clearly you win this argument because Thanos never tried to amp himself up to be Odin's equal and using eye lasers = AoE attack and Runner apparently has the Space Gem in this fight too. Ok.

@Galan 007

Your ignorance of the Surtur Saga shows its head again; drawing strength from the Eternal Flame wasnt Twilights only purpose...

It served several purposes, but since you never read the arc, you wouldnt know what they are...would you?

Originally posted by Galan007


The point of that post, dear zop, is that per the comic you're quoting, Runner cannot equal(let alone exceed) the speed of light. Surfer, for example, would demolish him in a race(based on that comic.)
The point, dear Galan, as it states on PANEL, the Runner and other hyper speedsters move so fast that NON hyper speedsters or beings that cannot manipulate space/time, appear as non moving STATUES.

That's the point. We KNOW Surtur's slow @$$ isn't a hyper speedster so that's out. That leaves only time/space manip. Any on panel proof of that? Because even Surtur's own official handbook entry states that his powers aren't as varied as Odin's.

Originally posted by ODG
Well, clearly you win this argument

Thank you!

Btw, there is no PIS in a forum fight, so that "unexpected AoE attack" wont happen as the Runner will see it coming from a mile away and be able to avoid it with ease...

So I ask you again, is this a stalemate? Does the Runner win or does Surtur win (and if so, how)?

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
@Galan 007

So what if he is more than a physical foe; others that are "more than physical" have been harmed by non-magical attacks before afterall...

In the Surtur Saga, Heimdall staggered Surtur just by throwing his body into him; Surtur is very vulnerable to physical non-magical attacks...its right there on panel. Is Heimdall not an Asgardian? Are Asgardians no longer considered magical/mystical entities?

Regardless, how does Heimdall staggering Surtur equate to Runner beating/killing Surtur? Even if an adamantium sword equates to a pin-prick to Surtur, how exactly are a bunch of pin-pricks going to beat/kill him?

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
What stance am I changing? Be specific...

I never said your scans were inadmissible btw (you lack reading comprehension as well?); I countered your stance that Odin, Loki, and Thor's combined attack did no lasting damage with the context of what was going on...

I mean its clear that you never actually read the arc, but are commenting on it afterall...

So once again, you argument fails... Lol, and so the insults begin. What you may not know is that I've actually grown to enjoy insults over the years. I've found that people usually only stoop to that level when they're desperate.

Anyway: Originally posted by Galan007
Wait, so you're giving Surtur the Twilight Sword in this battle(and referring people to the original Surtur/Twilight saga), but not allowing him to use it for what it was created for(ie. channeling power from the Eternal Flame)..? Makes sense(dur).

After all, I suppose neutering a character's power that you're debating against is the easiest way to aid your argument(even though it really doesn't, as Surtur is still equal to Odin, even w/o the Sword.) If you ever make a Thanos /w/ IG thread, you should give Thanos all of the infinity gems, but not allow him to use any of their powers... That'd make about as much sense as what you're doing here.

Originally posted by zopzop
The point, dear Galan, as it states on PANEL, the Runner and other hyper speedsters move so fast that NON hyper speedsters or beings that cannot manipulate space/time, appear as non moving STATUES.

That's the point. We KNOW Surtur's slow @$$ isn't a hyper speedster so that's out. That leaves only time/space manip. Any on panel proof of that? Because even Surtur's own official handbook entry states that his powers aren't as varied as Odin's. Originally posted by Galan007
Even if an adamantium sword equates to a pin-prick to Surtur, how exactly are a bunch of pin-pricks going to beat/kill him?

@Galan
It could possibly be an endless stalemate between Runner and Surtur. But for sure Surtur is NOT laying a finger on Runner if Runner don't want him to.

@Galan 007

Well you gotta admit, if you actual read, there would be nothing to insult; you commented that I was changing my stance in response to something that you clearly didnt read...

Anyway, your failure to read (which includes the Surtur Saga; which is causing you to fail here with your arguments) is causing you to make error upon error...

Twilight serves several purposes, so not having the Eternal Flame in this thread is hardly a nerf; it is still very powerful and amps Surtur significantly anyway...

@Galan 007

How are the pin-pricks going to kill him/put him down?

Damage over time baby!! It might take 100000 of these "pin pricks" to do the job...it might take a million...it might take 10 million, but eventually Surtur would fall.

Originally posted by zopzop
@Galan
It could possibly be an endless stalemate between Runner and Surtur. But for sure Surtur is NOT laying a finger on Runner if Runner don't want him to.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Thank you!

Btw, there is no PIS in a forum fight, so that "unexpected AoE attack" wont happen as the Runner will see it coming from a mile away and be able to avoid it with ease...

So I ask you again, is this a stalemate? Does the Runner win or does Surtur win (and if so, how)? I see, so no speedster in the history of comics has ever let his own arrogance/confidence in himself or his speed leave an opening for a slower opponent to exploit? Wait, what am I talking about... the Runner isn't arrogant or overly confident when he fights: http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b240/VoltronForce/runnersurfer4.jpg Stone-cold assassin, yo.

I already gave you my reasons for thinking that Surtur would win. You decided to pretend comics and character have nothing to do with this fight. I imagine you're just itching to make a Runner w/ adamantium sword vs Galactus thread.

After all, Runner w/ adamantium sword is like Skyfather-level according to you. And Galactus has been hurt by high heralds, ignoring the fact that he's been toppled by Skyfathers before. Boy, the things that an adamantium sword can do. Magically amp a Trans to Abstract+ level.

Never thought I'd see the day where Wolverithmetics would have angry buttsex with h1a8-style Flash IMP galaxy busting theories and spawn this horror of an offspring. But here it squats with its unholy grotesquerie.

Originally posted by zopzop
@Galan
It could possibly be an endless stalemate between Runner and Surtur. But for sure Surtur is NOT laying a finger on Runner if Runner don't want him to. So Runner stalemates Surtur by not fighting, and/or by landing a bunch of ineffectual strikes? Hmm, w/e. At least that is more logical than saying Runner wins by virtue of poking Surtur with a needle a bunch of times. :/

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Twilight serves several purposes, so not having the Eternal Flame in this thread is hardly a nerf; it is still very powerful and amps Surtur significantly anyway... You are taking away the reason it was such a threat. Given how many times you referred people back to the original Surtur/Twilight saga, it seemed rather obvious that your original intention was to have Surtur wielding the TS in all its glory... But it was only after I posted feats of such that you opted to neuter that portion of his power. Heh.

Doesn't matter. Surtur is still equal to full-power Odin w/o the sword.

Originally posted by ODG
Never thought I'd see the day where Wolverithmetics would have angry buttsex with h1a8-style Flash IMP galaxy busting theories and spawn this horror of an offspring. But here it squats with its unholy grotesquerie.

I lol'd.

But seriously, it's kind of silly (at the least) to assume that Runner + Adamantium sword is equal to or greater than Odin + Thor + Loki. And I don't see any plausible scenario where Runner could indefinitely hit Surtur without fear or reprisal in the form of Surtur getting lucky with a strike or just massive AoE style attacks.

Originally posted by ODG
I see, so no speedster in the history of comics has ever let his own arrogance/confidence in himself or his speed leave an opening for a slower opponent to exploit? Wait, what am I talking about... the Runner isn't arrogant or overly confident when he fights: http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b240/VoltronForce/runnersurfer4.jpg Stone-cold assassin, yo.

I already gave you my reasons for thinking that Surtur would win. You decided to pretend comics and character have nothing to do with this fight. I imagine you're just itching to make a Runner w/ adamantium sword vs Galactus thread.

After all, Runner w/ adamantium sword is like Skyfather-level according to you. And Galactus has been hurt by high heralds, ignoring the fact that he's been toppled by Skyfathers before. Boy, the things that an adamantium sword can do. Magically amp a Trans to Abstract+ level.

Never thought I'd see the day where Wolverithmetics would have angry buttsex with h1a8-style Flash IMP galaxy busting theories and spawn this horror of an offspring. But here it squats with its unholy grotesquerie.



Now that was funny...even though your argument as a whole fails...that rocked!

I shot down each and every reason you gave why Surtur would win and countered with reasons why the Runner would win...and I supported my arguments with cold hard fact.

Just admit it; the Runner wins or its an endless stalemate...

I know the truth hurts, but you'll feel much better once you just let it out!!

Originally posted by ODG
Never thought I'd see the day where Wolverithmetics would have angry buttsex with h1a8-style Flash IMP galaxy busting theories and spawn this horror of an offspring. But here it squats with its unholy grotesquerie.
hysterical

Originally posted by Galan007
So Runner stalemates Surtur by not fighting, and/or by landing a bunch of ineffectual strikes? Hmm, w/e. At least that is more logical than saying Runner wins by virtue of poking Surtur with a needle a bunch of times. :/

You are taking away the reason it was such a threat. Given how many times you referred people back to the original Surtur/Twilight saga, it seemed rather obvious that your original intention was to have Surtur wielding the TS in all its glory... But it was only after I posted feats of such that you opted to neuter that portion of his power. Heh.

Doesn't matter. Surtur is still equal to full-power Odin w/o the sword.

So it was my original intention that Surtur wield Twilight in all its glory...eh? If that was the case, I would have specifically placed the battle in Asgard, but I didnt do that now did I?

LoL...there you go failing again.

And again, so what if Surtur is equal to Odin; he isnt as versatile as Odin, has (for a Skyfather) low durability, and is slower than Loki...

Add that up, and the Runner matches up very well against Surtur...and will slice him up limb by limb!!

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I lol'd.

But seriously, it's kind of silly (at the least) to assume that Runner + Adamantium sword is equal to or greater than Odin + Thor + Loki. And I don't see any plausible scenario where Runner could indefinitely hit Surtur without fear or reprisal in the form of Surtur getting lucky with a strike or just massive AoE style attacks.

Without PIS being a factor (and its not a factor in a forum fight), any and everything Surtur could possibly do would be coming at the Runner in very slow motion...

That fact combined with the Runners combat speed means that he could avoid any and everything Surtur attempted with ease...

So yeah, Surtur wouldnt be able to lay a finger on the Runner unless the Runner allows him to...

oAKG-kbKeIo

Add that up, and I'm over this red-headed stepchild of a thread.

Originally posted by Galan007
So Runner stalemates Surtur by not fighting, and/or by landing a bunch of ineffectual strikes? Hmm, w/e. At least that is more logical than saying Runner wins by virtue of poking Surtur with a needle a bunch of times. :/

No, he stalemates IF he can't harm the statue (Surtur). Because that's what Surtur would be to the Runner, a statue.

Originally posted by Galan007
oAKG-kbKeIo

Add that up, and I'm over this red-headed stepchild of a thread.

Good riddens...

You've been thoroughly out argued anyway; you lost!

Originally posted by zopzop
No, he stalemates IF he can't harm the statue (Surtur). Because that's what Surtur would be to the Runner, a statue.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder


Now that was funny...even though your argument as a whole fails...that rocked!

I shot down each and every reason you gave why Surtur would win and countered with reasons why the Runner would win...and I supported my arguments with cold hard fact.

Just admit it; the Runner wins or its an endless stalemate...

I know the truth hurts, but you'll feel much better once you just let it out!! You seem especially pleased with yourself and I am baffled as to why. But I'm not baffled enough to care about deconstructing this false sense of bravado. You've ignored every point brought up. Rather absurdly so. Boring.

Originally posted by ODG
You seem especially pleased with yourself and I am baffled as to why. But I'm not baffled enough to care about deconstructing this false sense of bravado. You've ignored every point brought up. Rather absurdly so. Boring.

I have not ignored every point brought out; I have commented on them and countered them with cold blooded logic and reason...

I think you are bored because you lost...

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
I think you are bored because you lost... I think I am bored because you are lost...

Originally posted by ODG
I think I am bored because you are lost...

Nope, I know exactly where I am; do you know where you are?

@ODG

I think you are lost; you put your car keys down, cant find them, and are now projecting your feelings on to me...

You need to rediscover yourself...set a side your weakness...embrace the light...and accept the FACT that the Runner beats the HELL out of Surtur in this thread!!

This is what you must do to rediscover yourself and where you are ODG...and you must do it before sun set...or you will be lost forever.

Logically, this should be an endless stalemate. People are arguing for Surtur for these reasons:
1) Surtur is skyfather (Gawd, more of the Thor-God reasoning)
2)Surtur would barely feel the katana
3)Surtur is so powerful that speed doesn't matter.

When you break down the arguments. This ^^ is what pro-Surtur people are arguing. However, only #2 is a valid argument. These slices WOULD be like pin pricks to Surtur, and I have a hard time believing that Runner could rack up enough pin pricks to beat Surtur. No matter how fast Runner is a character of Surtur's level should be able to instantly heal from a pin prick.

I'm also not convinced that Surtur could really be beaten by conventional, non-magic or uber cosmic power. It wouldn't make sense if he could. Also, how long is this blade? Surtur is over 1000 feet tall. I know this is b.s. science I'm using, but is height is proportionate to skin thickness, A 1000' human would have close to twenty inches of skin, in depth. And Surtur is no human.

I've convinced myself that Runner should not win this.

Originally posted by Raisen
Logically, this should be an endless stalemate. People are arguing for Surtur for these reasons:
1) Surtur is skyfather (Gawd, more of the Thor-God reasoning)
2)Surtur would barely feel the katana
3)Surtur is so powerful that speed doesn't matter.

When you break down the arguments. This ^^ is what pro-Surtur people are arguing. However, only #2 is a valid argument. These slices WOULD be like pin pricks to Surtur, and I have a hard time believing that Runner could rack up enough pin pricks to beat Surtur. No matter how fast Runner is a character of Surtur's level should be able to instantly heal from a pin prick.

I'm also not convinced that Surtur could really be beaten by conventional, non-magic or uber cosmic power. It wouldn't make sense if he could. Also, how long is this blade? Surtur is over 1000 feet tall. I know this is b.s. science I'm using, but is height is proportionate to skin thickness, A 1000' human would have close to twenty inches of skin, in depth. And Surtur is no human.

I've convinced myself that Runner should not win this.

I could see this being a draw; that is a reasonable conclusion based on your logic...

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
I could see this being a draw; that is a reasonable conclusion based on your logic...



thanks.

also, what's the Runner's strength level at? This affects how powerfully he could actually plunge the blade. There is no way that Surtur's skin is as weak as a human's.

The more I think about it, the more I can't imagine pin pricks even manifesting on a sky father level character. Have we ever seen Odin get a paper cut?

Originally posted by Raisen
thanks.

also, what's the Runner's strength level at? This affects how powerfully he could actually plunge the blade. There is no way that Surtur's skin is as weak as a human's.

The more I think about it, the more I can't imagine pin pricks even manifesting on a sky father level character. Have we ever seen Odin get a paper cut?

I dont know what the Runners base strength is, but I'd imagine that he could amp up significantly as he did overpower the Surfer who is Class 100...

What happens if the Runner slices up Surturs eyeballs?

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
I dont know what the Runners base strength is, but I'd imagine that he could amp up significantly as he did overpower the Surfer who is Class 100...

What happens if the Runner slices up Surturs eyeballs?

I don't know. I mean, Surtur is a Fire Demon. It would makes sense that his form is just a way for him to appear. Conventional attacks wouldn't make much sense to me. Isn't he really just energy?

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Nope, I know exactly where I am; do you know where you are? Far be it for me to question your sense of direction: Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
accept the FACT that the Runner beats the HELL out of Surtur in this thread!! Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
I could see this being a draw Herp, derp.

ODG.

Do you know if Surtur is just magical energy and the demon looking body is just a form he takes? Because I can't remember ever seeing anything non-magical harm Surtur.

^ To my knowledge, he's a magical being and he's never really appeared in anything but his demon body form. But I'm not aware of any non-magic immunity.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Hurting Surtur is one thing.

Actually defeating him, which has on two occasions caused Odin to either die or come very close to it, is something else entirely. I could hurt Manny Pacquiao with a punch to the face on a given random encounter... i do not like my odds of surviving the flurry of blows I would recieve immediately after.

imo Surtur would be like Mephisto

Originally posted by golem370
imo Surtur would be like Mephisto

that's kind of how I viewed it and mephisto's form is only a form. he is actually energy.

Well he has been grabbed before. I would assume he can be both.

Originally posted by golem370
Well he has been grabbed before. I would assume he can be both.

how do you think this battle would go?

Here

Surtur is a skyfather level being imo he is immortal as well as Runner but Runner is high herald and maybe mid trans with the sword. Surtur imo would own Runner and with the sword go literally destroy the galaxy they are fighting in if he couldn't tag runner

Originally posted by golem370
Surtur is a skyfather level being imo he is immortal as well as Runner but Runner is high herald and maybe mid trans with the sword. Surtur imo would own Runner and with the sword go literally destroy the galaxy they are fighting in if he couldn't tag runner

That actually is a valid option for Surtur. Where's Lord of Murder?

^ Jake, I believe it was, already mentioned the fact that Surtur is a confirmed galaxy-buster w/o the sword.

...Naturally that little tid-bit was ignored by a few people in this thread.

Even as recently in "Everything Burns", we see that Surtur possesses internal energies enough to wreck a universe. And Surtur's power routinely challenges that of Odin without Twilight and Odin is definitely a galaxy buster (assuming you don't want to take Surtur's threatening of destroying a galaxy at face value nor count that he destroyed a galaxy to forge the sword in the first place).

Basically, arguing that Runner could eventually win or stalemate Surtur is akin to arguing that Runner could do the same to Odin. Which is...yeah.

Adamantium sword or no, that's not going to happen.

Originally posted by Galan007
^ Jake, I believe it was, already mentioned the fact that Surtur is a confirmed galaxy-buster w/o the sword.

...Naturally that little tid-bit was ignored by a few people in this thread.
When did this happen. When did he wreck a galaxy sans his sword. Hell when did he wreck a galaxy period?
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Even as recently in "Everything Burns", we see that Surtur possesses internal energies enough to wreck a universe. And Surtur's power routinely challenges that of Odin without Twilight and Odin is definitely a galaxy buster (assuming you don't want to take Surtur's threatening of destroying a galaxy at face value nor count that he destroyed a galaxy to forge the sword in the first place).

Basically, arguing that Runner could eventually win or stalemate Surtur is akin to arguing that Runner could do the same to Odin. Which is...yeah.

Adamantium sword or no, that's not going to happen.
Uhm Surtur may be the equal to Odin in terms of raw power but not in terms of versatility. Show me Surtur doing HALF the sh|t Odin has done with his power, then we'll talk.

Like I said earlier, the Handbook entry for Surtur even states this (that in terms of raw power he's more or less Odin's equal but he can't utilize his power in the varied way Odin does).

Originally posted by zopzop
When did this happen. When did he wreck a galaxy sans his sword. Hell when did he wreck a galaxy period?

Uhm Surtur may be the equal to Odin in terms of raw power but not in terms of versatility. Show me Surtur doing HALF the sh|t Odin has done with his power, then we'll talk.

Like I said earlier, the Handbook entry for Surtur even states this (that in terms of raw power he's more or less Odin's equal but he can't utilize his power in the varied way Odin does). He wrecked a galaxy whilst forging his sword:
Originally posted by zopzop
http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/6253/249391-surtur0016wreckinggalaxct1_super.jpg

Merely by forging his sword, Surtur busted a galaxy.

Originally posted by Galan007
He wrecked a galaxy whilst forging his sword:
Read the scan, he destroyed a GALACTIC CORE. It says it right there.

Originally posted by zopzop
When did this happen. When did he wreck a galaxy sans his sword. Hell when did he wreck a galaxy period?

Uhm Surtur may be the equal to Odin in terms of raw power but not in terms of versatility. Show me Surtur doing HALF the sh|t Odin has done with his power, then we'll talk.

Like I said earlier, the Handbook entry for Surtur even states this (that in terms of raw power he's more or less Odin's equal but he can't utilize his power in the varied way Odin does).

Handbooks are shite. I'll stick to on panel feats and the comics themselves over stats and summaries of powers and abilities.

And Odin, while being more versatile, is still too much for most people when he just blasts shit or punches. He wouldn't need to go exotic to curb Runner and neither would Surtur.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Handbooks are shite. I'll stick to on panel feats and the comics themselves over stats and summaries of powers and abilities.

And Odin, while being more versatile, is still too much for most people when he just blasts shit or punches. He wouldn't need to go exotic to curb Runner and neither would Surtur.
Handbooks are valid if they back up what's shown on panel.

Fact is, Surtur hasn't done half the sh|t with his power that Odin has. It's been shown on panel that hyper speedsters can move so fast that they view the rest of the universe as statues unless the beings they are interacting with are a) themselves hyper speedsters or b) can manipulate space/time.

I kindly provided the scans.

Surtur is NOT a hyper speedster. So that only leaves space/time manip powers for him. Show me him manipulating space/time like Odin has. Then we can move on from there.

Originally posted by zopzop
Read the scan, he destroyed a GALACTIC CORE. It says it right there. Yeah, that verbiage has always confused me. So please explain, dear zop, what is a galactic core exactly?

Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah, that verbiage has always confused me. So please explain, dear zop, what is a galactic core exactly?
http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr162/lect/milkyway/components.html

lol, I know how galactic cores are defined in the real world. I was looking for a comic book explanation of what the core Surtur used was made of(don't feel like looking to see if it was referenced.)

Christ, for all we know it may have been composed of several billion stars/planets and thousands of black holes...

^From a real-life perspective, supermassive black holes are usually composed of millions of black holes, and in terms of sheer weight is nearly as heavy as billions of solar masses, so the feat looks very impressive on surface.

However, at the event horizon, its gravitational pull is much weaker than an ordinary black hole's.

At the end of the day, no matter which way we interpret this feat, whether impressive or dull by skyfather standards, Surtur is still a high-skyfather level character simply because of him being established as Odin's peer power-wise, along with the threat of universal destruction in "Everything Burns"(which Jake pointed out and which our resident flip-flopper conveniently ignored).

Originally posted by Galan007
He wrecked a galaxy whilst forging his sword:

for what it's worth, check out thor 349, last couple pages. that's where odin confirms it was a galaxy, as opposed to just a galactic core. but it's an old debate and you either take odin's word for it or you don't.

regardless, runner isn't beating surtur. if he did have a chance, it wouldn't have anything at all to do with him having a sword. runner>ss. does anyone actually think giving ss a sword, even an adamantium one, make him somehow MORE powerful...?

the issue of speed is also an old one. just because surtur has not fought anyone as fast as runner, doesn't mean he couldn't find a way to hit him with some massive aoe attack. he also smashed thor once, while thor was darting around with his undefined 'lightning-like' speed....surtur is not slow, just really big. eventually runner would make a mistake and surtur would end him.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
At the end of the day, no matter which way we interpret this feat, whether impressive or dull by skyfather standards, Surtur is still a high-skyfather level character simply because of him being established as Odin's peer power-wise, along with the threat of universal destruction in "Everything Burns"(which Jake pointed out and which our resident flip-flopper conveniently ignored).
THe only people ignoring anything are on "Team Surtur" :
http://s21.postimg.org/6lhgcju5f/lacking.jpg http://s21.postimg.org/f6as3q4bn/toofast.jpg http://s21.postimg.org/g7b0sulb7/toofast2.jpg
We KNOW he's not a hyper speedster so that option is out for him (Surtur). Now show me him manipulating space/time on panel. Because we've never seen him do half the crap Odin has with his power even though they are more or less equal in terms of raw power, exactly like the Handbook entry states.

PIS/CIS off this is Runner with sword vs statue.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Even as recently in "Everything Burns", we see that Surtur possesses internal energies enough to wreck a universe. And Surtur's power routinely challenges that of Odin without Twilight and Odin is definitely a galaxy buster (assuming you don't want to take Surtur's threatening of destroying a galaxy at face value nor count that he destroyed a galaxy to forge the sword in the first place).

Basically, arguing that Runner could eventually win or stalemate Surtur is akin to arguing that Runner could do the same to Odin. Which is...yeah.

Adamantium sword or no, that's not going to happen.

Why should we take the galaxy wrecking threat at face value? Aren't you the one that says it's feats that matter? His feat has confirmed he destroyed a galactic core, not a galaxy. Yet you want to twist words to conform to your Asgardian and anything Asgardian-related love.
Your Odin argument is faulty A, B, C logic.
Nothing has been confirmed or proven here. The Surtur supporters are basing everything off of speculation and hyperbole.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
^From a real-life perspective, supermassive black holes are usually composed of millions of black holes, and in terms of sheer weight is nearly as heavy as billions of solar masses, so the feat looks very impressive on surface.

However, at the event horizon, its gravitational pull is much weaker than an ordinary black hole's.

At the end of the day, no matter which way we interpret this feat, whether impressive or dull by skyfather standards, Surtur is still a high-skyfather level character simply because of him being established as Odin's peer power-wise, along with the threat of universal destruction in "Everything Burns"(which Jake pointed out and which our resident flip-flopper conveniently ignored).

Originally posted by leonidas
for what it's worth, check out thor 349, last couple pages. that's where odin confirms it was a galaxy, as opposed to just a galactic core. but it's an old debate and you either take odin's word for it or you don't.

regardless, runner isn't beating surtur. if he did have a chance, it wouldn't have anything at all to do with him having a sword. runner>ss. does anyone actually think giving ss a sword, even an adamantium one, make him somehow MORE powerful...?

the issue of speed is also an old one. just because surtur has not fought anyone as fast as runner, doesn't mean he couldn't find a way to hit him with some massive aoe attack. he also smashed thor once, while thor was darting around with his undefined 'lightning-like' speed....surtur is not slow, just really big. eventually runner would make a mistake and surtur would end him. Thanks. I knew I had seen it confirmed that Surtur actually destroyed that galaxy, but couldn't remember where. Here it is, for anyone who is curious:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15817772/1.jpg.html
"A galaxy destroyed..."

Which means that Surtur clearly wasn't boasting when he remarked that he wielded enough power to destroy a galaxy in one of his first appearances:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15817774/2.jpg.html


Aside from that, the part of the pro-Runner argumentation that I still can't wrap my head around is: Even IF they believe a non-magical adamantium sword is capable of piercing Surtur's hide, what type of lasting damage do they think it can possibly cause to a magical/mystical being composed of "living flame"? Is it going to make him uncontrollably bleed fire, or somesuch..? As the words "living flame" imply, Surtur is far more than a mere flesh&blood giant-- Odin flat-out stated that he is "more a force of nature, than a physical foe."

The above facts are likely why the only characters and/or items that have been shown capable of causing any harm to Surtur are magical/mystical in nature themselves. /shrug

Originally posted by Galan007


Thanks. I knew I had seen it confirmed that Surtur actually destroyed that galaxy, but couldn't remember where. Here it is, for anyone who is curious:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15817772/1.jpg.html
"A galaxy destroyed..."

Which means that Surtur clearly wasn't boasting when he remarked that he wielded enough power to destroy a galaxy in one of his first appearances:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15817774/2.jpg.html


Aside from that, the part of the pro-Runner argumentation that I still can't wrap my head around is: Even IF they believe a non-magical adamantium sword is capable of piercing Surtur's hide, what type of lasting damage do they think it can possibly cause to a magical/mystical being composed of "living flame"? Is it going to make him uncontrollably bleed fire, or somesuch..? As the words "living flame" imply, Surtur is far more than a mere flesh&blood giant-- Odin flat-out stated that he is "more a force of nature, than a physical foe."

The above facts are likely why the only characters and/or items that have been shown capable of causing any harm to Surtur are magical/mystical in nature themselves. /shrug

There's also a panel where Spiderman says Sentry fought Galactus to a stand still. You think that happened?

Originally posted by Galan007


Thanks. I knew I had seen it confirmed that Surtur actually destroyed that galaxy, but couldn't remember where. Here it is, for anyone who is curious:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15817772/1.jpg.html
"A galaxy destroyed..."

Which means that Surtur clearly wasn't boasting when he remarked that he wielded enough power to destroy a galaxy in one of his first appearances:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15817774/2.jpg.html


Aside from that, the part of the pro-Runner argumentation that I still can't wrap my head around is: Even IF they believe a non-magical adamantium sword is capable of piercing Surtur's hide, what type of lasting damage do they think it can possibly cause to a magical/mystical being composed of "living flame"? Is it going to make him uncontrollably bleed fire, or somesuch..? As the words "living flame" imply, Surtur is far more than a mere flesh&blood giant-- Odin flat-out stated that he is "more a force of nature, than a physical foe."

The above facts are likely why the only characters and/or items that have been shown capable of causing any harm to Surtur are magical/mystical in nature themselves. /shrug
FAIL.

A) That was a retelling/summary by Odin. On panel we saw he destroyed a galactic core
B) That old ass scan of him boasting about "galaxy busting" power, he amassed all that energy just to destroy the Earth BY MELTING IT'S POLAR ICE CAPS.

Originally posted by zopzop
FAIL.

A) That was a retelling/summary by Odin. On panel we saw he destroyed a galactic core
B) That old ass scan of him boasting about "galaxy busting" power, he amassed all that energy just to destroy the Earth BY MELTING IT'S POLAR ICE CAPS.


That's right. I'm interested in the logic that's going to explain that. This is going to get immensely complicated with nothing but hearsay, speculation, and hyperbole. When the posts start getting too long you know there's a lying and desperation at work.

Originally posted by zopzop
FAIL.

A) That was a retelling/summary by Odin. On panel we saw he destroyed a galactic core
B) That old ass scan of him boasting about "galaxy busting" power, he amassed all that energy just to destroy the Earth BY MELTING IT'S POLAR ICE CAPS.


My Sentry comment from earlier was SO damn appropriate in this situation.
Sentry "Power of a million exploding suns"
Surtur "Power of a thousand blazing suns"

So since we're taking word of mouth and boasting as evidence. Does that mean Sentry is thousands of times more powerful than Surtur? LOL

LOL. The hyperbole is laughable. There's some six degree stuff going on here between Sentry and Surtur.

What's the big deal about Sutur destroying a galactic core anyway? Who here thinks Runner is getting caught up in that? He'll be in a neighboring galaxy before the devastation is completed.

Originally posted by leonidas
the issue of speed is also an old one. just because surtur has not fought anyone as fast as runner, doesn't mean he couldn't find a way to hit him with some massive aoe attack. he also smashed thor once, while thor was darting around with his undefined 'lightning-like' speed....surtur is not slow, just really big. eventually runner would make a mistake and surtur would end him.

You can't put Thor and Runner in the same category speedwise. If Runner doesn't suffer from CIS, no way is Surtur touching him at all. This is not just "lighting speed" we're talking about.

Originally posted by Raisen
There's also a panel where Spiderman says Sentry fought Galactus to a stand still. You think that happened? The difference is that we actually saw Surtur effortlessly gather the galactic core in order to forge his sword. Odin later comments that it was more than just the galactic core that Surtur ultimately destroyed-- it was the galaxy itself.

Additionally, Odin possesses a much higher level of 'all-knowingness' than Peter... So that is a horrendous analogy.

In the end, it really doesn't matter if it was a galactic core or the entire galaxy. That part of the discussion has very little to do with the argument at hand.

Originally posted by Galan007
The difference is that we actually saw Surtur effortlessly gather the galactic core in order to forge his sword. Odin later comments that it was more than just the galactic core that Surtur ultimately destroyed-- it was the galaxy itself.

Additionally, Odin possesses a much higher level of 'all-knowingness' than Peter... So that is a horrendous analogy.

In the end, it really doesn't matter if it was a galactic core or the entire galaxy. That part of the discussion has very little to do with the argument at hand.

If you haven't noticed, Asgardians are prone to hyperbole. Remember how Odin reacted to the Serpent? How did that actually flesh out? It almost seems that hyperbole is in the nature of the "Gods" with their grandiose speech and all.................
Basically, Odin is consistently a liar

Originally posted by Galan007




Is Hulk's strength limitless?

Originally posted by Galan007




Is the Invincible Iron Man truly invincible?

Originally posted by Galan007



Does Sentry have the power of a million exploding suns?

Nice trolling.

Again, though, you're using horrendous 'analogies'.

Originally posted by Galan007
Nice trolling.

Again, though, you're using horrendous 'analogies'.

Is it possible that he may be able to outmuscle Surtur or Galactus?