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Quite an old murder case, but the sheer brutality of its nature merits discussion:

Do you guys think that a 20 year life sentence was enough?

No, as a matter of fact I don't think that's a tough enough jail sentence.

This guy has a history of violence, as we see with his wife. Attempted murder, if she's telling the truth about "shoving her underwater while she was in the bath."

And possibly four weeks of torture? I don't think a psych defense would've stood - doesn't that have to be in the heat of the moment or something? This is cold blooded-ly torturing and murdering a seventeen year old by a forty-nine year old man. I wouldn't be surprised if some other skeletons started to reveal themselves.

Her last name is bates. Shame she died to this weirdo.

I'm shocked he didn't get life in prison.

: Oh, I see he did get life.

In Canada, we have something called "dangerous offender" status, which, iirc, means you will never get out of prison pending some near miraculous change and psych evaluation. This guy seems like he should qualify for that.

Hopefully I'm not inferring to much if I suspect the OP is in favor of the death penalty here? either way, I wouldn't support that.

Typical pansy British.

We would have given the guy life without parole in federal pounding in the ass prison.

This guy probably hasn't been raped even once. What a shame.

Nothing like a draft of cold air from my opened window as I was reading what this guy did to his girlfriend. Really sets the mood.

At least life in prison. Me personally? I think he should get the chair. An act of violence in the heat of the moment etc. is one thing, but this? The chair.

Is this a true story?

Originally posted by Oliver North
In Canada, we have something called "dangerous offender" status, which, iirc, means you will never get out of prison pending some near miraculous change and psych evaluation. This guy seems like he should qualify for that.

Hopefully I'm not inferring to much if I suspect the OP is in favor of the death penalty here? either way, I wouldn't support that.

Definitely a case where that needs to be applied. I see nothing that shows he has any chance of rehabilitation, and as such he needs to remain incarcerated for good.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
Definitely a case where that needs to be applied. I see nothing that shows he has any chance of rehabilitation, and as such he needs to remain incarcerated for good.

G2gTFBhQ7Ko

Send him to Crematoria!

Originally posted by dadudemon
Her last name is bates. Shame she died to this weirdo.
Thanks for adding this insightful new info to the thread topic. Now tell us what you think of the sentence levied upon this fellow, and whether it was strict enough or not.
Originally posted by Oliver North
Hopefully I'm not inferring to much if I suspect the OP is in favor of the death penalty here? either way, I wouldn't support that.
No, you're not inferring too much. I'd like to hear your thoughts on why you wouldn't support a punishment like that.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Quite an old murder case, but the sheer brutality of its nature merits discussion:

Do you guys think that a 20 year life sentence was enough?

Depends on his cell mates.

If they are primal enough to break him and cause him to submit to affectionate stockholm syndrome and sexual favors for them, yes...so long as they are inclined and clever enough to abuse their perversely gained powers to the utmost capacity of cruelty.

An eye for an eye.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Thanks for adding this insightful new info to the thread topic. Now tell us what you think of the sentence levied upon this fellow, and whether it was strict enough or not.

No, you're not inferring too much. I'd like to hear your thoughts on why you wouldn't support a punishment like that.

That's not enough for some rich old white man who's this much a simple-minded reckless megalomaniac...with any legal form of capital punishment that is. There are methods of termination I would prefer however I will not bring them up.

What he's getting is probably worse, the Warden has probably been made aware of what's happened and told to 'do his job'. They probably don't expect this man to make it to age 69, with what he'll be exposed to behind bars when the Warden enlightens his cell mates.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
No, you're not inferring too much. I'd like to hear your thoughts on why you wouldn't support a punishment like that.

Its not about whether I think the person deserves to live or anything like that, I just don't believe anyone has the right to take another's life, especially in the case of the government, where it is literally a case of it-is-only-legal-because-we-say-it-is.

Originally posted by Dolos
stockholm syndrome

that would not be stockholm syndrome

Originally posted by Oliver North
that would not be stockholm syndrome

Isn't stockholm syndrome the result of an abused individual who acquires empathy for their captors (cell mates), mistaking relent for acts of benevolence?

Or are those just non-defining elements of it?

Originally posted by Dolos
Isn't stockholm syndrome the result of an abused individual who acquires empathy for their captors (cell mates), mistaking relent for acts of benevolence?

Or are those just non-defining elements of it?

I wont nitpick the definition, because that is close enough for the level of complexity we are talking about

the issue is, it is not the cell mates holding the person captive. Stockholm syndrome is a very specific reaction to captivity, it doesn't refer to any type of affiliation with authority figures. What you are describing is a hierarchy among captives.

Stockholm Syndrome

I wonder if he has a preexisting condition that makes them feel as if he won't last twenty years.

I'm more of an advocate for life without chance of parole. I personally don't think it's up to humans to decide to kill another human. It goes against my common sense as something along the line of "playing god." That's another reason why I see murder as such a serious crime.

Originally posted by Dolos
Isn't stockholm syndrome the result of an abused individual who acquires empathy for their captors (cell mates), mistaking relent for acts of benevolence?

Or are those just non-defining elements of it?

There's no evidence she developed empathy for him or mistook relent for acts of benevolence. All we know is that she didn't leave.

Originally posted by Dolos
What he's getting is probably worse, the Warden has probably been made aware of what's happened and told to 'do his job'. They probably don't expect this man to make it to age 69, with what he'll be exposed to behind bars when the Warden enlightens his cell mates.
It's not an American prison he has been living in for the last 17 years.

Originally posted by Oliver North
Its not about whether I think the person deserves to live or anything like that, I just don't believe anyone has the right to take another's life, especially in the case of the government, where it is literally a case of it-is-only-legal-because-we-say-it-is.
Well, the OP(me) asks about whether you think that the level of punishment he got was severe enough. But I get where you're coming from.

Also, interestingly enough, this fellow was also a highly religious person.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Also, interestingly enough, this fellow was also a highly religious person.

Paraphrasing St. Peter, "Women should know their place, etc." Plus the fact that women are second class citizens in the bible, except for Ruth and Esther, who gambled their honor away to help the tribe of Israel...

Depending on what he actually believes, Kathy might have been better off if he was not so religious.

Actually, that fact reminds me of the plot of "The Girl With the Dragon tattoo." Ick.

Now that's putting it lightly, Damn!

Probably explains why he turned himself into he police without trying to run/hide.

Wiki: Murder of Kelly Anne Bates

Originally posted by siriuswriter
Paraphrasing St. Peter, "Women should know their place, etc." Plus the fact that women are second class citizens in the bible, except for Ruth and Esther, who gambled their honor away to help the tribe of Israel...

Depending on what he actually believes, Kathy might have been better off if he was not so religious.

Actually, that fact reminds me of the plot of "The Girl With the Dragon tattoo." Ick.
One of Smith's quotes:
"I understand now why some men want to kill their women."

There are somemany other indicators as well which suggest that he was a violent misogynist.

Originally posted by Major_Lexington
Now that's putting it lightly, Damn!

Probably explains why he turned himself into he police without trying to run/hide.

Wiki: Murder of Kelly Anne Bates
He actually thought that it was an accident, and that he was trying to save her when it happened. Plus, there's other instances as well where he claims that she was the self-mutilating type who hit herself to make it look bad on him, and often baited him into savaging her.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
There's no evidence she developed empathy for him or mistook relent for acts of benevolence. All we know is that she didn't leave.
Dolos is actually referring to Smith developing possible Stockhom Syndrome(or something similar), presuming if he's given a similar treatment by his cellmates.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
One of Smith's quotes:
"I understand now why some men want to kill their women."


Underline mine.

It's mentioned that he was a Jehovah's Witness.

Assuming that his beliefs were at all based upon conventional JW doctorine, it's hard for me to believe that his actions were at all religiously motivated.

JW culture and ideology is pretty chauvinistic, but its also anti-violent to the point of submissiveness. Witnesses don't even believe in people going to hell or the sort.

Obviously, the man was psychotic, but my point is that unless he was basically flat-out ignoring JW doctorine in favor of obsessing over whatever anti-women scriptures he could find, I'm not sure how much his religious beliefs tied into this.

Originally posted by Tzeentch._
It's mentioned that he was a Jehovah's Witness.

I'm not sure how much his religious beliefs tied into this

stfu

Some call it bias, I call it perspective uhuh

Originally posted by Tzeentch._
It's mentioned that he was a Jehovah's Witness.

Assuming that his beliefs were at all based upon conventional JW doctorine, it's hard for me to believe that his actions were at all religiously motivated.

JW culture and ideology is pretty chauvinistic, but its also anti-violent to the point of submissiveness. Witnesses don't even believe in people going to hell or the sort.

Obviously, the man was psychotic, but my point is that unless he was basically flat-out ignoring JW doctorine in favor of obsessing over whatever anti-women scriptures he could find, I'm not sure how much his religious beliefs tied into this. You went full dummy.

Anyway, they should make him fight a bear with a wooden sword.

fight me irl m8 ill crush u

ill hook u n the gabber m8

i swear on me mum's life ill reck u

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Well, the OP(me) asks about whether you think that the level of punishment he got was severe enough. But I get where you're coming from.

well, in the same vein, I don't see criminal justice about dealing out value based sentences to people in order to satisfy how much we think people should be hurt. I think there is little likelihood of rehabilitation, and thus, to protect society in general, it is justifiable to take away this individual's rights. idk, beyond that, I feel it is too much power in the hands of the state.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Also, interestingly enough, this fellow was also a highly religious person.

I'm not sure how relevant that is... baring some breakthrough in the understanding of the neurological origins of violence, that seems far too post hoc of an explanation to me.

Do you agree that he should fight a bear?

He can fight the bears getting high on jet fuel in Russia.

Originally posted by Mindset
gabber

nXkHtMlxwDA

Originally posted by Mindset
Do you agree that he should fight a bear?

yes, if only for our entertainment, which is more important than justice, yes

Exactly.

That's what society doesn't get anymore.

These are sad times we live in.

it's a new dark age

I want more public executions in soccer fields

At least some floggings every once in awhile.

ya, more floggings, who can't agree to that

communists, that's who

Originally posted by Major_Lexington


Now that's putting it lightly, Damn!

Probably explains why he turned himself into he police without trying to run/hide.

Wiki: Murder of Kelly Anne Bates

That changes my perspective, more tragic than infuriating now.

Why wasn't he put in a mental institution?

Originally posted by Oliver North
it's a new dark age

I want more public executions in soccer fields

Hmmm, is that bigger or smaller than an american football field?

Originally posted by Oliver North
I'm not sure how relevant that is... baring some breakthrough in the understanding of the neurological origins of violence, that seems far too post hoc of an explanation to me.
I wasn't pointing it out as an explanation for his violent behavior toward his girlfriend, I was merely noting the not-easily-overlooked fact of him being a religiously devout person.

Originally posted by siriuswriter
Hmmm, is that bigger or smaller than an american football field?

Soccer fields vary from 90-120 meters (98-131 yards)

So smaller to longer if you count the end zones in the US field.

While I am not the ardent supporter of the death penalty I once was after reading the details of the case all I can say is too bad this didn't happen in Texas.