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Who wins?
No prep..




The mighty Avengers:

Cap.America
Blue Marvel
Quasar
Thor
Silver Sufer
Dr.Strange
Namor

Vs

Darksied (post c)
Doomsday (DoS)
Desaad
Kalibak









Add Blue Marvel and Surfer to the Avengers thou they never ben
Jus to clarify....

Which Darkseid?

Avengers

BFR Doomsday and then focus all attnention on DS.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Which Darkseid?





Post crisis Darkseid
Maybe a compasit of post crisis if easier that way..

Darkseid can BFR too.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Darkseid can BFR too.

Yeah but he would be kind of busy with all of those big guns coming at him.

Originally posted by Caps Conscience
Yeah but he would be kind of busy with all of those big guns coming at him.

The number of guns coming at him with lessen once he starts using the Omega, and he's just as likely to do that, if not more likely, than anyone BFR'ing doomsday.

Dr.Strange bfr right off the bats?

Avengers 10/10

DS/DD.

Ill go with DS & DD to win.

hmm, not sure. could be a lot of bfr'ing going on here. probably the avengers. if there is no bfr, i think ds/dd/kalibak could take them, but i'm really unsure about a majority.

Lol at Desaad being here.

I think I agree with Leo--without bfr it's anyone's game, leaning toward Avengers based on how many heavy hitters they have. With bfr I see Darkseid having an easier time bfring than the reverse.

Bfr: avengers
No bfr: DC

Once Darkseid starts tossing them eyebeams around most of Avengers drop. Quasar's shields might stop some of it, but it don't look good.

Can't Mjolnir just absorb the eyebeams?

Good lord. The Avengers are dead unless Strange can conjure up something.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Can't Mjolnir just absorb the eyebeams?

He can absorb anything.

But since he rarely does nowadays it's not a valid tactic on KMC

Originally posted by tkitna
Good lord. The Avengers are dead unless Strange can conjure up something.

Against DOS DD and Post Crisis DS?? How...?

Isn't post crisis Darkseid the one that Superman beat so badly that he ended up begging for mercy while having his eyes swollen shut?

This is basically Surfer, Strange, Thor and Quasar vs DS and DOS DD.

How is this not spite?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Isn't post crisis Darkseid the one that Superman beat so badly that he ended up begging for mercy while having his eyes swollen shut?
It's a cool meme that Superman is >> Darkseid, but if you look at all their encounters it's pretty clear that at best Superman is Darkseid's weaker peer--capable of beating him, but at great difficulty--because while there are a few cases where Superman thrashes Darkseid it's never without a serious fight, whereas there are instances where Darkseid trounces/humiliates Superman without trouble.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Isn't post crisis Darkseid the one that Superman beat so badly that he ended up begging for mercy while having his eyes swollen shut?
After hitting him with his own omega beams and going all out. All out superman would push anybody's shit in here.Originally posted by Omega Vision
It's a cool meme that Superman is >> Darkseid, but if you look at all their encounters it's pretty clear that at best Superman is Darkseid's weaker peer--capable of beating him, but at great difficulty--because while there are a few cases where Superman thrashes Darkseid it's never without a serious fight, whereas there are instances where Darkseid trounces/humiliates Superman without trouble.
Not true either.

I might actually have to do a mythbuster about how Darkseid is apparently herald level.

**** sake.

Who's this Abhi guy? He seems like a spazz.
Originally posted by -Pr-
I might actually have to do a mythbuster about how Darkseid is apparently herald level.

**** sake.
Do you mean to bust a myth about Darkseid being Herald level or a myth about Darkseid being above Herald level?

Originally posted by abhilegend
After hitting him with his own omega beams and going all out. All out superman would push anybody's shit in here.

So Superman likes to play with shit? Is that why you like him?

Originally posted by Silent Master
So Superman likes to play with shit? Is that why you like him?
Troll someone else snake-eyes.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Who's this Abhi guy? He seems like a spazz.

Do you mean to bust a myth about Darkseid being Herald level or a myth about Darkseid being above Herald level?

The former.

People like to think that Superman on an average day is his superior, when he's not.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Troll someone else snake-eyes.

You're the one that was talking about Superman pushing shit around, I'm just wondering if that's why you like him.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Who's this Abhi guy? He seems like a spazz.

Do you mean to bust a myth about Darkseid being Herald level or a myth about Darkseid being above Herald level?
Darkseid doesn't easily trounces superman. Denying that makes me a spazz?Originally posted by Silent Master
You're the one that was talking about Superman pushing shit around, I'm just wondering if that's why you like him. Originally posted by abhilegend
Troll someone else snake-eyes.

Originally posted by -Pr-
The former.

People like to think that Superman on an average day is his superior, when he's not.

yeah, he really doesn't get much respect. tbf dc didn't do him a lot of favors, but yeah, i know what you mean. he can almost be seen and justified as falling anywhere from low trans, to low skyfather (hell, he had dc odin quaking once....) just wish he he'd been shown consistently high (high father high) more often. depending on which showings are used for dc, the dc guys could route here, or be defeated. ds can be a frustrating forum character....

Originally posted by abhilegend


What do you expect when you're talking about Superman playing with other people's shit?

But really, is that why you like him?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Troll someone else snake-eyes.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I might actually have to do a mythbuster about how Darkseid is apparently herald level.

**** sake. You can expect my participation in that thread should you choose to do so.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
This is basically Surfer, Strange, Thor and Quasar vs DS and DOS DD.

How is this not spite?




How is this spite?

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Against DOS DD and Post Crisis DS?? How...?

Sorry, did not see the Post Crisis for DS.

Originally posted by Supermex
How is this spite?

Both Kalibak and DOS DD are seen as low herald by some (he's low herald in the tiering in KMC, too). And we got 4 of the top high heralds in Marvel plus a mid herald.

So unless Desaad can somehow tip the balance, it's DS vs 4 top end high heralds that each could defend themselves and/or their teammates against his Omega (Quasar/Strange can shield themselves, Surfer could prolly fly away from it or have his board deflect it and Thor can just absorb it). Blue Marvel can take on either DD or Kalibak himself and we even have Namor and Captain America just for annoyance factor.

DS isn't a slouch, but I don't fancy his odds against, Thor, Surfer, Quasar AND Strange....

Ds omega effect cant really be stopped so Ss strange Thor gone off the bat the rest DD dick down.

Originally posted by mighty adam
Ds omega effect cant really be stopped so Ss strange Thor gone off the bat the rest DD dick down.

Except when it has been.

About Desaad

I needed someone Cap.Americs could punch

Originally posted by mighty adam
Ds omega effect cant really be stopped so Ss strange Thor gone off the bat the rest DD dick down.




SIED can't even do that trick to the JLA yet he's popping theze just like that?
Don't see that happening..

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Both Kalibak and DOS DD are seen as low herald by some (he's low herald in the tiering in KMC, too). And we got 4 of the top high heralds in Marvel plus a mid herald.

DOS DD a low herald, youre kidding, right? The guy was pretty much an exact match for Superman, Maxima, Jonn, Guy Gardner, Booster Gold, Supergirl (Matrix), Fire, Ice, Beetle and Cadmus weaponry all combined. Thats not low herald by any stretch, if anything an argument can be made for him to be above high herald.

And Kalibak is a near match for Orion, whos a near match for Thor (most believe), so hes hardly one to discount lightly either.

Darkseid and DD easily

Originally posted by DTM
DOS DD a low herald, youre kidding, right? The guy was pretty much an exact match for Superman, Maxima, Jonn, Guy Gardner, Booster Gold, Supergirl (Matrix), Fire, Ice, Beetle and Cadmus weaponry all combined.

Oh god my sides

Originally posted by DTM
DOS DD a low herald, youre kidding, right?

Not my idea:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t577922.html

Take it up with the KMC tiering. DOS DD and Kalibak being low heralds seems to be the forum consensus. More ppl are posting a Mjolnir-less Thor to win against DOS DD than there are those that aren't (I happen to believe that DOS DD would win, however).

Originally posted by DTM
The guy was pretty much an exact match for Superman, Maxima, Jonn, Guy Gardner, Booster Gold, Supergirl (Matrix), Fire, Ice, Beetle and Cadmus weaponry all combined. Thats not low herald by any stretch, if anything an argument can be made for him to be above high herald.

And Kalibak is a near match for Orion, whos a near match for Thor (most believe), so hes hardly one to discount lightly either.

At Kalibak's best showings, maybe. Or Orion's lower ones. Do you really wanna compare Kalibak's high showings vs Thor's?

I wasnt saying Kalibak would beat Thor, but I would say hes capable of giving him enough of a fight to hold him off for a while.

As for KMC as a whole thinking DOS DD is low herald level, I literally couldnt Disagree more (the entire DOS series proves this time and again).

Originally posted by DTM
I wasnt saying Kalibak would beat Thor, but I would say hes capable of giving him enough of a fight to hold him off for a while.

As for KMC as a whole thinking DOS DD is low herald level, I literally couldnt Disagree more (the entire DOS series proves this time and again).

Not even close. I'd say Thor gives him the Count Nefaria treatment (a bonafide MID herald by KMC standards) and one shot im more often than not (if we're talking about highs vs highs, that is).

DOS DD's "feats" in that era weren't very good. Certainly not in comparison to what these high heralds have been shown to be able to do in their entire careers. Not without a crapton of ABC logic anyway.

Originally posted by mighty adam
Ds omega effect cant really be stopped so Ss strange Thor gone off the bat the rest DD dick down. Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Except when it has been.

Let's see... Firestorm's tube, Orion's forcefields, GL Raker's bubble construct, Superman's heat vision, Wonder Woman's bracers... am I missing anything?

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Not even close. I'd say Thor gives him the Count Nefaria treatment (a bonafide MID herald by KMC standards) and one shot im more often than not (if we're talking about highs vs highs, that is).

DOS DD's "feats" in that era weren't very good. Certainly not in comparison to what these high heralds have been shown to be able to do in their entire careers. Not without a crapton of ABC logic anyway.

Again, I couldnt disagree more.

Originally posted by DTM
Again, I couldnt disagree more.

You're certainly entitled to your own opinion.

As you and anyone else is entitled to theirs.

Originally posted by DTM
As you and anyone else is entitled to theirs.

Superman has like 2 legit wins over Darkseid, aCRAPalips Now, the same story where Darkseid was blinded and couldn't use the Omega Beams even though he's fired them from his hands and channeled them through statues before, in that same story Darkseid wasn't afraid of Yuga Khan but was afraid of Superman? Right...

And of course Jeph Loeb's cluster f*ck where Superman was saved twice by Supergirl and Wonder Woman and needed to bring Darkseid to the sun to beat him. Funny thing is in that same series Darkseid one shotted Superman and threw his ass into the source wall too.

There was that instance when Darkseid got the omega beams back from DeSaad but he was most likely in a weakened state. That same instance had Batman busting his lip even though in the same series earlier Batman with tech and Barda's mother box couldn't even scratch him.

Just my 2 cents

Originally posted by leonidas
yeah, he really doesn't get much respect. tbf dc didn't do him a lot of favors, but yeah, i know what you mean. he can almost be seen and justified as falling anywhere from low trans, to low skyfather (hell, he had dc odin quaking once....) just wish he he'd been shown consistently high (high father high) more often. depending on which showings are used for dc, the dc guys could route here, or be defeated. ds can be a frustrating forum character.... The nice thing is it was all retconned by Final Crisis. Even though the story was kinda meh

DOS DD is a high herald.Heck, even Byrne Superman is stronger than thor.

As for Omega beams firestorm, Raker, Superman and Wnder Woman re-directed them and Darkseid willed them to bounce off of Orion's force fields. Omega beams would oneshot anybody here considering what they did to Aggog and HP Doomsday.

Thor at the very least could block or redirect them with Mjolnir.

He could but Darkseid can always phase them through time or just Omega sanction him.

What's the Superman vs Darkseid record?
Did Clark ever beat him fair?
The 2 instances I remember are when Superman tricked Darkseid into hiting him self with OB and the other when WW deflected it back at him......so that's kinda meh win for Clark...

Superman beat him in apokolips now but that was after hitting him with OB. The funny thing is that superman took OB without much problem.

Yeah OB has been watered down...ermm
In S/B after WW deflected the beam back at Ds,Clark took him to the sun and it pretty much amped his strenght.......

In OWAW they also stalemated same in countdown that's far from bad showing....ermm

Originally posted by leonidas
yeah, he really doesn't get much respect. tbf dc didn't do him a lot of favors, but yeah, i know what you mean. he can almost be seen and justified as falling anywhere from low trans, to low skyfather (hell, he had dc odin quaking once....) just wish he he'd been shown consistently high (high father high) more often. depending on which showings are used for dc, the dc guys could route here, or be defeated. ds can be a frustrating forum character....

That's what happens when people at large don't read the actual material. They just see a couple of scans and assume it's the status quo.

Originally posted by -Pr-
That's what happens when people at large don't read the actual material. They just see a couple of scans and assume it's the status quo.


I have mixed emotions or better yet mixed feelings on Leo's perspective. Darkseid said that he was a physical peer of both Orion and Superman, and I'm having a hard time picturing Orion on Odin's level, or even Zeus' tbh. Perhaps it's just me.

Originally posted by Estacado
Yeah OB has been watered down...ermm
In S/B after WW deflected the beam back at Ds,Clark took him to the sun and it pretty much amped his strenght.......

In OWAW they also stalemated same in countdown that's far from bad showing....ermm
Its not powered down. Superman got more powerful, in H/P a weakened OB burned superman because he was near cyborg superman when he was struck by OB.

Anyways Darkseid later on was written badly he was basically a brute with OB most of the times writers forgot about his matter and reality manipulation powers....which is a bad thing...

I remember when he first got his omega powers and flew to Highfather and 1 paneled his ass.....haermm


Darkseid tools Highfather....

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/67/adventure460292wo.jpg/