Darth Maul, Savage Opress, Pre Vizsla, Bo-Katan vs Revan

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Taay'hai
Rules:
Saber
Force
Hand-to-hand
All-out

Area: Dueling area of Revan in SWTOR
Bonus: If Pre Vizsla dies, Maul picks up the Darksaber

Character versions:
* Revan - SWTOR
* Darth Maul - Death Watch
* Savage Opress - Prosthetic left arm
* Pre Vizsla - New armor
* Bo-Katan - Season 5

Vensai
First, you shouldn't have put more than three on a team. Second, team stomps.

Taay'hai
Pfft hate more on me pls. That's like Delta Squad against Revan isn't permitted >_>

Intrepid37
Maul solos.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Vensai
Second, team stomps.
No, it doesn't.

The Imperial Strike Team sent to kill Revan couldn't stomp on him. And the team was made-up of bad@sses.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Maul solos.
No, he doesn't. Revan is relatively much stronger.

Intrepid37
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
No, he doesn't. Revan is relatively much stronger.
Not really.

Based
Even if you want to wank to BioWare characters you still can't do it for SWTOR Revan.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Not really.
Really?

He cut a swath through forces of the Sith; defeated many powerful adversaries in single combat; packed incredible tolerance and raw power; came close to assassinating the Sith Emperor; understood Force in the ways that few did; was unpredictable and very dangerous

Revan is logically in a different league in comparison to likes of Maul and Savage.

Originally posted by Based
Even if you want to wank to BioWare characters you still can't do it for SWTOR Revan.
Revan gets lowballed for illogical reasons. Canon sources promote him as among the most powerful individuals in the Galactic history. He logically wouldn't be pushover even for a Strike Team.

Intrepid37
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Really?

He cut a swath through forces of the Sith; defeated many powerful adversaries in single combat; packed incredible tolerance and raw power; came close to assassinating the Sith Emperor; understood Force in the ways that few did; was unpredictable and very dangerous

Revan is logically in a different league in comparison to likes of Maul and Savage.
Right, Revan is gonna win because he packs incredible tolerance, was unpredictable and dangerous?

Give me a break. erm

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Right, Revan is gonna win because he packs incredible tolerance, was unpredictable and dangerous?

Give me a break. erm
Revan might be poorly defined in the context of skills but he is logically proficient in all aspects of combat and his command of the Force is extraordinary. Revan have defeated more powerful and dangerous adversaries then Maul.

Common sense, bro.

Intrepid37
Sure he's powerful.

Doesn't mean he's more powerful than Maul though.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Sure he's powerful.

Doesn't mean he's more powerful than Maul though.
Revan have defeated some adversaries in single combat who were stronger and more dangerous then Maul. In addition, Revan's combat performance in Star Forge is an accomplishment far beyond Maul's fighting abilities.

Intrepid37
Try to comprehend following:

a) Maul is a vastly better duelist
b) Maul is most likely faster
c) Maul is stronger
d) Revan has no feats suggesting he can outright dominate him with his force powers

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Intrepid37
a) Maul is a vastly better duelist
Subjective speculation

Originally posted by Intrepid37
b) Maul is most likely faster
Subjective speculation

Originally posted by Intrepid37
c) Maul is stronger
BS

Originally posted by Intrepid37
d) Revan has no feats suggesting he can outright dominate him with his force powers
Feats are just part of the equation to judge a character. Revan is likely to dominate Maul with his Force powers; he may begin by ragdolling Maul with his TK abilities.

In SWTOR game: Revan demonstrated the capability to ragdoll his opponents with his TK abilities. He also bombarded the place with gigantic rocks. In addition, Revan was proficient in the use of Force Lightning. Revan's Force powers are impossible to counter.

Intrepid37
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Subjective speculation
Not really.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Subjective speculation
Hence the ''most likely''.



Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
BS
Prove me wrong.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Feats are just part of the equation to judge a character. Revan is likely to easily dominate Maul with his Force powers; he may begin by ragdolling Maul with his TK abilities.
To quote you: Subjective speculation. wink

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Not really.
As per Drew Karpyshyn, Revan is skilled in all forms of lightsaber combat. However, he chooses to be unorthodox in his dueling preferences so that he can be unpredictable. His precognitive abilities are exceptional by all accounts.

Feats wise, I recall two of his impressive showings:-

- Revan singlehandedly cut down a pair of Terentateks in the Tomb of Naga Sadow. His skills convinced Yuthura Ban that he was the only individual in the whole planet at that time who could help her defeat Uthar Wynn.

"Some say they are products of Sith alchemy. Others think they were simply rancors twisted with dark-side energy. Regardless, they are aggressive and deadly." (Luke Skywalker)

- During confrontation with the Imperial Guard; Revan cut down his opponent (who attempted to stop his advance) with such finesse that it is not even funny.

Learn about Imperial Guard from here: http://www.swtor-spy.com/codex/the-imperial-guard/1134/

------

Revan does not sucks in lightsaber combat. He is rather inadequately explored in this context.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Hence the ''most likely''.
Speculations will do you no good.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Prove me wrong.
- Darth Malak?
- Darth Nyriss?

Originally posted by Intrepid37
To quote you: Subjective speculation. wink
Have you played SWTOR game?

Nephthys
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
- Revan singlehandedly cut down a pair of Terentateks in the Tomb of Naga Sadow. His skills convinced Yuthura Ban that he was the only individual in the whole planet at that time who could help her defeat Uthar Wynn.

"Some say they are products of Sith alchemy. Others think they were simply rancors twisted with dark-side energy. Regardless, they are aggressive and deadly." (Luke Skywalker)

This is pretty impressive, since Terentateks are Force-resistant, Revan needed to cut them down with a lightsaber. Killing 2 at once is a great feat.

axel_jovan
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Maul solos.
^ this thumb up


@Intrepid, this debate: IT"S A TRAP! Don't waste your time, bro wink

GM Skywalker
Hmmmmm........Team wins. They could just overload him.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by axel_jovan
^ this thumb up
Subjective opinion with no merit. Though I am not surprised since you extremely underestimate TOR era characters.

Originally posted by axel_jovan
@Intrepid, this debate: IT"S A TRAP! Don't waste your time, bro wink
Its a debate; not a trap.

The_Tempest
SWL, people are just now opening up to the idea of engaging you again. Don't sabotage this elusive moment of magnanimity by furiously masturbating to TOR, KotOR and its characters.

S_W_LeGenD
I welcome the openness but should I just blindly concede POV in favor of PT/OT era characters to be on the good side of some PT fans?

People should stop taking Star Wars debates to heart.

Now Maul > Revan? Even some Maul fanboys do not go this far in other forums.

The_Tempest
No one's taking it to heart and no one's suggesting you blindly concede anything. But because this is indeed intended to be a lighthearted past time and not an excruciating chore... you may want to reconsider some things.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by The_Tempest
No one's taking it to heart and no one's suggesting you blindly concede anything. But because this is indeed intended to be a lighthearted past time and not an excruciating chore... you may want to reconsider some things.
I have no interest in bashing any fellow member in these debates; I am past this stage.

However, labeling my debates as "trap" for others is not a welcome sign.

I am waiting for the moment when I gain access to BioWare forums; it is great place for Star Wars debates. Once this happens, I won't bother posting in the Star Wars section of this forum.

The_Tempest
And probably an environment more receptive to a predilection for all things TOR, yes?

S_W_LeGenD
Fans of all Star Wars eras lurk in that forum. At least, people are not given SU call over there; you can post to your heart's fill and expect decent debate in return.

The_Tempest
Well I'll grant you that this place isn't worth much for a decent debate anymore. I chalk it up to recalcitrance and weariness.

Intrepid37
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
As per Drew Karpyshyn, Revan is skilled in all forms of lightsaber combat. However, he chooses to be unorthodox in his dueling preferences so that he can be unpredictable. His precognitive abilities are exceptional by all accounts.

Feats wise, I recall two of his impressive showings:-

- Revan singlehandedly cut down a pair of Terentateks in the Tomb of Naga Sadow. His skills convinced Yuthura Ban that he was the only individual in the whole planet at that time who could help her defeat Uthar Wynn.

"Some say they are products of Sith alchemy. Others think they were simply rancors twisted with dark-side energy. Regardless, they are aggressive and deadly." (Luke Skywalker)

- During confrontation with the Imperial Guard; Revan cut down his opponent (who attempted to stop his advance) with such finesse that it is not even funny.

Learn about Imperial Guard from here: http://www.swtor-spy.com/codex/the-imperial-guard/1134/

In many ways Darth Maul was an exemplary acolyte. His loyalty was unquestionable and unshakable; Sidious knew that, if he were to command it, Maul would sacrifice his life without a second's hesitation. And his skills as a warrior were nonpareil.

-Shadow Hunter

He defeated Anoon Bondara, who according to his apprentice, had swordmanship ''unmatched'' and skills ''second to none'', defeated Qui-Gon Jinn who was called one of the best in the order, has effortlessly stomped Savage Opress who has fought as an equal with Plo Koon and Asajj Ventress, he has fought as an equal with Obi-Wan Kenobi who has fought even with (and defeated) General Grievous

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Revan does not sucks in lightsaber combat. He is rather inadequately explored in this context.
Agreed. Never claimed so, though.



Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
- Darth Malak?
- Darth Nyriss?
I meant physical strength.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Have you played SWTOR game?
No. Have read Revan though.

SIDIOUS 66
Skill-wise, Maul has just as good of quotes as Revan, but better feats. Force-wise, Maul has better feats as far as TK: throwing ships, ragdolling Obi Wan, collapsing cave cielings, etc...

There is nothing to indicate that Revan is better than Maul, IMO. And if he is, it's not by much.

Ben "cA" Risa
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Well I'll grant you that this place isn't worth much for a decent debate anymore. I chalk it up to recalcitrance and weariness.

Indeed, this place used to be pretty epic with the 2000+ word responses being the norm and all of the crazy drama. I think the real reason it isn't as good as it used to be is that for the most part all of the posters that were good for the forum and livened the place up either left or stopped actively debating, in particular people like Lightsnake and strangely enough Darth Sexy lol. God I had some legendary debates with Darth Sexy back in the day.

The_Tempest

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Intrepid37
In many ways Darth Maul was an exemplary acolyte. His loyalty was unquestionable and unshakable; Sidious knew that, if he were to command it, Maul would sacrifice his life without a second's hesitation. And his skills as a warrior were nonpareil.

-Shadow Hunter
I do not underestimate Maul's skill but my argument is that he is not in the league of Revan.

"Like Revan, the Emperor understood the Force in ways Scourge never would." (SWTOR: Revan)

"It was easy to understand how Scourge could be drawn to him; Revan's command of the Force was greater than that of anyone else she had ever met." (SWTOR: Revan)

"Revan was power. It was like staring into the heart of the Force." (KoTOR 2)

Originally posted by Intrepid37
He defeated Anoon Bondara, who according to his apprentice, had swordmanship ''unmatched'' and skills ''second to none'',
The apprentice's POV is questionable. Mace, Yoda and Dooku were better then Anoon.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
defeated Qui-Gon Jinn who was called one of the best in the order,
Any quote?

Originally posted by Intrepid37
has effortlessly stomped Savage Opress who has fought as an equal with Plo Koon and Asajj Ventress,
Maul was relatively better trained and more learned in the ways of the Force.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
he has fought as an equal with Obi-Wan Kenobi who has fought even with (and defeated) General Grievous
Obi-Wan Kenobi is good but he is not in the league of Revan either.

---

Revan have subdued stronger opponents.

Some examples:

- Revan utterly destroyed Nyriss with his raw power; the latter individual was so powerful that she put both Scourge and Meetra to shame.

- Revan subdued Malak aboard Star Forge; the latter individual was stated to be "nearly unstoppable" at this stage.

Revan have defeated several other powerful opponents in single combat. He even came close to assassinating the mighty Sith Emperor.

Revan's combat performance (on the whole) aboard Star Forge puts Maul to shame.

Their is simply no comparison.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Agreed. Never claimed so, though.
Revan was an expert swordsman by all accounts.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
I meant physical strength.
Revan packs much greater raw power. Explanation below.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
No. Have read Revan though.
Well, Revan is very impressive in SWTOR. Even after enduring 3 centuries of torture, the Imperial Strike Team found Revan a force to be reckoned with. Malgus himself pointed out that the Imperial Strike Team was the only hope for the Empire to stop Revan.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Skill-wise, Maul has just as good of quotes as Revan, but better feats.
This statement makes no sense.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Force-wise, Maul has better feats as far as TK: throwing ships, ragdolling Obi Wan, collapsing cave cielings, etc...
These fancy TK feats do not prove much.

Consider this example:

Orgus Din collapsed a Cave entrance or possibly more in front of HoT. Not long afterwards, Bengal Morr ragdolled Orgus Din in front of HoT like a pro.

Get the memo?

Maul is simply better explored in the mythos in the context of Force powers then Revan. However, given the reputation of latter, he is likely to put Maul to shame in a showdown of Force powers. To give you an idea; Revan could collapse a building if he really wanted to with his TK abilities, as per Drew Karpyshyn.

In the Revan novel, we never got to see Revan in a situation in which he had to exert to perform a feat. He just gestured and feats happened as per his wishes. Nothing more; nothing less.

You talk about offensive capabilities?

Revan send Vitiate packing with his TK abilities; he can take good care of Maul. In addition, Revan was also a practitioner of dark side powers and very good in their use. Remember what he did to Nyriss?

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
There is nothing to indicate that Revan is better than Maul, IMO. And if he is, it's not by much.
Revan is logically far more powerful then Maul. You cannot make an accurate assessment of Revan's strength without a holistic examination of his power progression in his life.

As an example:

Revan packed so much raw power that when he found himself on the receiving end of Nyriss's signature FL, he literally bend it back to his opponent, utterly destroying her in the process. Do you think that Maul could survive in Revan shoes if he found himself in the same situation? No. He lacked the strength and proficiency to deal with such kind of threat; he wasn't as strong as Revan - not even close.

Vensai
Since we've all agreed that the team utterly humiliates Revan:

Maul vs. Revan
Sabers: Maul - Revan's best saber feat was fighting a featless imperial guard while Maul has taken on swordsmasters like Quigon, Obiwan, etc.
Force: Maul - Revan's best feats from the novel are below Maul's feats of moving ships and ragdolling jedi; Maul has survived lightning from Sidious himself and tanked Mighella's
All-out: Maul

Seriously, Savage vs. Revan would be a better fight.

The_Tempest
Originally posted by Vensai
Since we've all agreed that the team utterly humiliates Revan:

lol i c wut u did thur

Taay'hai
Why are you all centering this on a conflict between Maul and Revan? So what if Darth Maul isn't strong as Revan? He has three other powerful allies--Savage, Pre, and Bo-Katan. Their abilities are quite considerable too. I think it'd be unfair to say Maul carries the team the entire team.
I think Maul would serve as the greatest swordsman.
I think Savage would cause a lot of strain and physical pain to Revan.
I think Pre would have tons of fun throwing nades from the sky.
I think Bo-Katan could be classified as a DPS, and pack quite a punch.

Nephthys
Yeah, Revans fvcked.

Vensai
What feats of Revan make you think he is stronger than Maul? The best feats he has off the top of my head are defeating a sith lord with her own lightning (and Maul doesn't tend to use lightning last time I checked) and beating Malak (who honestly isn't any higher on feats than Revan). What you think does not equal feats.

Intrepid37
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I do not underestimate Maul's skill but my argument is that he is not in the league of Revan.

"Like Revan, the Emperor understood the Force in ways Scourge never would." (SWTOR: Revan)

"It was easy to understand how Scourge could be drawn to him; Revan's command of the Force was greater than that of anyone else she had ever met." (SWTOR: Revan)

"Revan was power. It was like staring into the heart of the Force." (KoTOR 2)
First two are opinions, last is hyperbole.

I don't doubt that he's got a good understanding of the force and huehue, but Maul has ragdolled Kenobi, collapsed a cave, manhandled a big ship, hurled soldiers with force waves and whatnot.

Simply too much for Revan to overcome.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
The apprentice's POV is questionable.
Agreed, like Scourge's and Surik's.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Any quote?

Qui-Gon Jinn was one of the most able swordsmen in the Jedi order. The Jedi Master he had trained under had considered him one of the best the Master had taught in his more than four hundred years in the order. Qui-Gon had fought in conflicts all across the galaxy in the span of his life and against odds so great that many others would not have stood a chance. He had survived battles that had tested his skill and resolve in every conceivable way.
Maul was relatively better trained and more learned in the ways of the Force.

-The Phantom Menace

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Obi-Wan Kenobi is good but he is not in the league of Revan either.
Obi-Wan has dueling feats above Revan's. smile



Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
- Revan utterly destroyed Nyriss with his raw power; the latter individual was so powerful that she put both Scourge and Meetra to shame.
By redirecting the lightning with his hands, not a dueling feat really.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
- Revan subdued Malak aboard Star Forge; the latter individual was stated to be "nearly unstoppable" at this stage.
As if Maul wouldn't. Malak sucks.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Revan have defeated several other powerful opponents in single combat. He even came close to assassinating the mighty Sith Emperor.
He doesn't have the chance to assassinate Maul. wink

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Revan's combat performance (on the whole) aboard Star Forge puts Maul to shame.

Their is simply no comparison.
Not really.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Revan was an expert swordsman by all accounts.
And Maul isn't?

Darth Maul is one of the most highly trained Sith in the history of the order.

-Episode I Visual Dictionary

The present Sith Master, Darth Sidious is the diabolically brilliant mind behind training one of the most dangerous Sith apprentices in history: the deadly Darth Maul.

-Episode I Visual Dictionary

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Revan packs much greater raw power. Explanation below.
Not really. Maul's cyber-legs combined with his physical strength allowed him to handle Opress' strength like it was nothing. Pretty sure that before Opress became a Sith he stones so they received dents, and after his amp Opress flung Dooku, Anakin and Obi-Wan across rooms, broke Battledroids.

Nephthys
Originally posted by Vensai
What feats of Revan make you think he is stronger than Maul? The best feats he has off the top of my head are defeating a sith lord with her own lightning (and Maul doesn't tend to use lightning last time I checked) and beating Malak (who honestly isn't any higher on feats than Revan). What you think does not equal feats.

Well LeGeND had it straight from Drew Karpyshan that Revans TK is powerful enough to destroy a building. So thats pretty impressive if you think its valid.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Vensai
Since we've all agreed that the team utterly humiliates Revan:
The Imperial Strike Team sent to kill Revan found him a force to be reckoned with. This Strike Team was made-up of bad@sses too. So what makes you think that Revan will be utterly humiliated in this hypothetical confrontation. It is rumored that Revan haven't died during his confrontation with the Imperial Strike Team. Your claim is subjective and is not a representation of POV of everybody.

Originally posted by Vensai
Maul vs. Revan
Sabers: Maul - Revan's best saber feat was fighting a featless imperial guard while Maul has taken on swordsmasters like Quigon, Obiwan, etc.
As per canonical sources, Imperial Guard are exceptionally skilled combatants. Having feats doesn't makes you unstoppable by default. Revan have impaled many adversaries with his blade; that Imperial Guard individual was just one of the victims in a very long list.

Revan have also slain two Terentateks simultaneously in the Tomb of Naga Sadow. Does Maul have a comparable showing?

Have Maul ever cut a swath through an army?

In addition, neither Obi-Wan and nor Qui-Gon jinn have demonstrated combat performance on par with Revan.

So your subjective claim have no merit in it.

Originally posted by Vensai
Force: Maul - Revan's best feats from the novel are below Maul's feats of moving ships and ragdolling jedi; Maul has survived lightning from Sidious himself and tanked Mighella's
All-out: Maul
Another subjective assessment from you which makes no sense at all. Since when have Maul tanked Sidious's lightning? Last time, I checked he was begging for mercy and crying in pain when Sidious tortured him with his lightning. And Mighella is supposed to be a lightning God or something? What have she done to warrant a mention in this debate?

As far as feats are concerned, Revan did not found himself in a situation during which he had to exert to perform a feat of epic proportions. It is not in his nature to leave a trail of destruction in his path without a solid reason. Revan took steps that were adequate for his objectives. A powerful Sith may think differently in his shoes; powerful Sith often tend to leave a trail of destruction in their path to intimate their opponents/surroundings, but Revan thinks differently. You should not confuse lack of feats with lack of capability; their is a clear distinction between these two.

Revan's companions have acknowledged his immense power. As an example: Meetra Surik felt that Revan's command of the Force was greater then that of everybody else's whom she have met. You know what this implies? To give you a hint, Meetra Surik have dealt with some very impressive adversaries.

Originally posted by Vensai
Seriously, Savage vs. Revan would be a better fight.
BS

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Vensai
What feats of Revan make you think he is stronger than Maul?
- Revan have defeated/killed several powerful and dangerous opponents in single combat. Some of these opponents are stronger then Maul.

- Revan played a pivotal role in the fall of a powerful Sith Empire; this accomplishment earned him the reputation of being a prodigy.

- Revan held his own against Vitiate (an avatar of the dark side) for a while.

You guys are so clueless about Revan that it is not even funny.

Originally posted by Vensai
The best feats he has off the top of my head are defeating a sith lord with her own lightning (and Maul doesn't tend to use lightning last time I checked)
Revan is a practitioner of both Jedi and Sith powers. His lightning is expected to be very potent and effective, keeping in mind his feat against Nyriss.

Originally posted by Vensai
and beating Malak (who honestly isn't any higher on feats than Revan). What you think does not equal feats.
Malak was strong enough to rule a Sith Empire. This accomplishment alone is a representation of his great power and skill among the Sith. When it came to single combat, Malak defeated the trio of Revan, Bastilla and Onasi aboard his flagship Leviathan. Malak have demonstrated the capability to tool multiple opponents simultaneously on other occasions too. He is definitely above the likes of Maul, Savage, Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan and a long list.

S_W_LeGenD

Intrepid37

Taay'hai
Someone help me gain access to post links so you all have good evidence on the team's abilities

Intrepid37
Get 20 posts before you can post links.

Taay'hai
I see. Aside from that, continue your arguments--I'm extremely intrigued! And like I said before, don't center this entire thread on a battle between Maul and Revan--he has a team u know!

Intrepid37
As for the thread, it's a complete mismatch. There's really no discussion, Revan gets utterly annihilated.

Honestly, the only ones that can take this team from the PT era is Plagueis, Sidious and Yoda.

Taay'hai
What about Starkiller? He can take them too, can't he?

Intrepid37
No. Maul and Opress are both better duelists and should take him on together, easier with Vizsla and the other guy.

Taay'hai
I'm referring to the Clone--you know, the ones with 2x dualsaber prowess than Sidious. All I'd see is Sidious vs. Maul and Opress all over again--though Starkiller wouldn't waste time imo

Taay'hai
Btw, Bo-Katan isn't a guy

Intrepid37
2x dualsaber prowess than Sidious?

As per the encyclopedia, Starkiller was ''ultimately no match for the Emperor''. <- can't remember corect quote

Taay'hai
That was Galen Marek, the non-clone. Starkiller was stronger than the original imo. Besides which, Galen had to show mercy, as it was part of the Jedi way, and then he had to sacrifice himself. If no worry of dishonor were a matter in his fight against the Emperor, I think he would've killed him.

S_W_LeGenD

Intrepid37
Nah. I recall Vader stating that the clone had the same skills but also the same errors.

When he fought Sidious, he felt as if everything he'd done before was childish in comparison <-can't remember correct quote, and Sidious was completely unharmed after the explosion.

Taay'hai
LOL The Revan-masturbater is back!!!!!!

Taay'hai
Perhaps, but the Clone is better than the original in saber combat imo--particularly because of his duals. And even if he isn't as good as the Emperor, I still think he can equal the Maul bros

Taay'hai
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
- Maul had clear win over Qui-Gon. And Qui-Gon have defeated/subdued any powerful opponent before?

He defeated Mace Windu once, though he wasn't at his peak. Still, if Qui-Gon had the time to reach his full potential--and he didn't, because of Darth Maul's prowess--then I could imagine him possibly defeating Mace again. Still, he didn't live that long

The_Tempest
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8onrkyTzN1rucurdo1_250.gif

Taay'hai
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
- Opress is not an expert swordsman.

Hah! Have you seen his incredible deflecting skills, and his man-handling of Adi Gallia?

The_Tempest
Originally posted by Taay'hai
Hah! Have you seen his incredible deflecting skills, and his man-handling of Adi Gallia?

Gallia was beaten via the Force. Opress is not an "expert swordsman" in the sense that he is not the product of years of formal training. But your point is well taken: a talentless hack does not hold his own with a leading member of the Jedi Council in a sword fight.

Taay'hai
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Gallia was beaten via the Force.

This is true, but I noticed that Savage was consistently pushing her onto the defensive and desperate dodges with lightning-quick saber strikes. I also noticed her attempt of a stab/jab/w/e it was on him, but he caught the blade using only one arm and caused her to swing away. This is when he brought down the support like barbarian for the second time btw

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Taay'hai
LOL The Revan-masturbater is back!!!!!!
By your logic, member (Intrepid37) is Maul's masturbater.

B/W I am fan of Ancient era Star Wars lore. I also like PT/OT era works.

Originally posted by Taay'hai
He defeated Mace Windu once, though he wasn't at his peak.
Friendly sparring matches prove nothing.

Originally posted by Taay'hai
Still, if Qui-Gon had the time to reach his full potential--and he didn't, because of Darth Maul's prowess--then I could imagine him possibly defeating Mace again. Still, he didn't live that long
You realize that this is speculation? Originally posted by Taay'hai
Hah! Have you seen his incredible deflecting skills, and his man-handling of Adi Gallia?
Incredible deflecting skills? Revan have incredible deflecting skills too. Want me to give an example?

And am I supposed to be impressed by Adi Gallia? What are her accomplishments?

Nephthys
Tbh, Savage appears to be far more skilled than he has any right to be. Especially since a doublebladed lightsaber is harder to use. Maybe if his training with Dooku had been fleshed out a bit more and was shown to be longer than it seemed to be, it wouldn't be such a head-scratcher.

Taay'hai
Adi Gallia turned on her furious-fighter mode against Grievous, and that was impressive. And Savage deflected better than Starkiller against a patrol of Mandalorian officers (Satine's) quite handily. I'd show you but I can't post video links until 20 posts are done. I'll novelize it for you if you want.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Taay'hai
Adi Gallia turned on her furious-fighter mode against Grievous, and that was impressive.
And then lost; not impressive.

Any well-trained Jedi is supposed to be an impressive fighter. It is no big deal.

People like Revan represent the elites of the Jedi Order; unmatched in skill and power within a span of many generations.

Try to perceive the difference.

Originally posted by Taay'hai
And Savage deflected better than Starkiller against a patrol of Mandalorian officers (Satine's) quite handily. I'd show you but I can't post video links until 20 posts are done. I'll novelize it for you if you want.
Revan comfortably deflected firepower of several Mandalorians (including a leader) from close distance and felled some in response.

Revan actually have a very long and impressive kill record.

Intrepid37

Intrepid37
/double post.

Taay'hai
Adi Gallia didn't lose--the hall in the ship exploded and then she and Obi-Wan and Cody were gonna get sucked into space. Grievous ran away and she saved them all.

Secondly, I don't really care for Revan's kill-count, because it depends on the kinds of kills he gets. I don't give a flying **** if he brought down a building. There's no building to bring down on a platform. Secondly, he's not gonna have any lightning to deflect back at the team. He doesn't possess every element the team has, and those that he does, the team has to a better extreme with their focused skill division.

Both Revan and Maul have brought down Mandalores. They have both been reborn. They have both brought down several supports. They are very similar, you realize--but I don't recall him being god of everything, such as lightsaber combat.

The Hero of Tython defeated Vitiate while in a Nexus, and the maul bros can still take HoT down. Revan didn't kill Vitiate, and again, he hasn't any chance of assassinating Maul.

"Revan beats Maul head-on" my ass. He has a team with the combined power to beat Revan head-on, and Maul is capable of soloing Revan, or at least holding off against him. Ever heard the term "Ability vs. Environment", btw?

Savage can play hookie with Revan like he did with pedestrians and throw him over the rail of the platform. If he tries to get back up, he can suck Maul's metal boot. Then Bo-Katan and Vizsla can bomb him off.

Nephthys
Originally posted by Taay'hai
The Hero of Tython defeated Vitiate while in a Nexus, and the maul bros can still take HoT down.

Hodor?

Taay'hai
Originally posted by Nephthys
Hodor?

Well, I saw a post where Maul and Savage run a gauntlet, and the Hero of Tython was on the list, and the majority of members decided HoT would lose. I questioned that myself, but there's possibility for everything.

The_Tempest
Possible, not probable. Opress is Council-level, but he felled Gallia through a Force attack. He's definitely a stronger Force user than most of the Council, but I'm not convinced he's a superior swordsman.



The TOR!camp generally flinch at the prospect of a debate without double standards.

This will be an excruciating experience for you, my condolences for your patience. erm

Nephthys
Originally posted by Taay'hai
Well, I saw a post where Maul and Savage run a gauntlet, and the Hero of Tython was on the list, and the majority of members decided HoT would lose. I questioned that myself, but there's possibility for everything.

Thats fair enough. The Hero of Tython isn't really as fleshed out as other characters so it is hard to get a gauge on their abilities. But bear in mind that they did defeat Lord Scourge, a guy who's killed over a thousand Jedi/Sith and scares even the Dark Council. And they became much more powerful afterwards.

Intrepid37
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Possible, not probable. Opress is Council-level, but he felled Gallia through a Force attack. He's definitely a stronger Force user than most of the Council, but I'm not convinced he's a superior swordsman.
I was talking about an all-out fight actually, but I agree on a whole.

Not every Jedi is cut from the same pie and he should have bigger problems against Grievous than against someone like Fisto in my opinion, despite the latter beating the former.

In a strict saberduel, Opress should have a good shot against anyone but Yoda, Anakin and Mace.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
The TOR!camp generally flinch at the prospect of a debate without double standards.

This will be an excruciating experience for you, my condolences for your patience. erm
Alright.

What should I expect?

Taay'hai
Originally posted by Taay'hai
Savage can play hookie with Revan like he did with pedestrians and throw him over the rail of the platform. If he tries to get back up, he can suck Maul's metal boot. Then Bo-Katan and Vizsla can bomb him off.

You guys gotta admit, that could work lol

The_Tempest
Originally posted by Intrepid37
I was talking about an all-out fight actually, but I agree on a whole.

Not every Jedi is cut from the same pie and he should have bigger problems against Grievous than against someone like Fisto in my opinion, despite the latter beating the former.

In a strict saberduel, Opress should have a good shot against anyone but Yoda, Anakin and Mace.

Opress can definitely hold his own against anyone on the Council in a sword fight and defeat any of them in a no holds barred contest thanks to the Force; Yoda and Mace being the accepted exceptions, of course.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Alright.

What should I expect?

Just more of the same.

Accolades only matter when assigned to a TOR!character; accolades for other characters are ambiguous and hyperbolic. Defeating a member of the Jedi Council is paltry, but taking on a member of the Dark Council is the stuff of divinity. Force nexuses are only relevant for consideration when a non-TOR!character is on one; for TOR!characters, they either weren't using the nexus at all, could duplicate the results on neutral ground, or the nexus wasn't a nexus to begin with. Authorial intent and commentary is, again, relevant only when considering a TOR!character's abilities; for a non-TOR!character, if it's not presented in the text then it's non-canon. And if a TOR!character goes up against a random mook and doesn't do so well, then it's only proof that the mook in question is a badass of epic proportions. But if a non-TOR!character goes up against a mook of his or her era and doesn't stomp them outright, it constitutes proof that the character themselves is weaksauce for not beating said mook.

Trust me. You debate with them long enough, you'll see they indulge in all the tactics I mentioned in a single outing.

thumb up

Taay'hai
Originally posted by Taay'hai
Adi Gallia didn't lose--the hall in the ship exploded and then she and Obi-Wan and Cody were gonna get sucked into space. Grievous ran away and she saved them all.

Secondly, I don't really care for Revan's kill-count, because it depends on the kinds of kills he gets. I don't give a flying **** if he brought down a building. There's no building to bring down on a platform. Secondly, he's not gonna have any lightning to deflect back at the team. He doesn't possess every element the team has, and those that he does, the team has to a better extreme with their focused skill division.

Both Revan and Maul have brought down Mandalores. They have both been reborn. They have both brought down several supports. They are very similar, you realize--but I don't recall him being god of everything, such as lightsaber combat.

The Hero of Tython defeated Vitiate while in a Nexus, and the maul bros can still take HoT down. Revan didn't kill Vitiate, and again, he hasn't any chance of assassinating Maul.

"Revan beats Maul head-on" my ass. He has a team with the combined power to beat Revan head-on, and Maul is capable of soloing Revan, or at least holding off against him. Ever heard the term "Ability vs. Environment", btw?

Savage can play hookie with Revan like he did with pedestrians and throw him over the rail of the platform. If he tries to get back up, he can suck Maul's metal boot. Then Bo-Katan and Vizsla can bomb him off.

I'm surprised SWL hasn't argued against this yet. Either that or he's building up a post worth the Great Wall of China

The_Tempest
Give him time. The great serpent is encircling you, with predatorial lethargy, and will soon crush you betwixt his merciless coils.

Taay'hai
Wow, that is rather poetic--and so true trolololo

I can only imagine, though, srsly

The_Tempest
You could always imagine the great serpent in my pants. no expression

Taay'hai
Sorry, everyone focuses on such things only in Bandon's pants...

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Nephthys
Tbh, Savage appears to be far more skilled than he has any right to be. Especially since a doublebladed lightsaber is harder to use. Maybe if his training with Dooku had been fleshed out a bit more and was shown to be longer than it seemed to be, it wouldn't be such a head-scratcher.

If we're talking about dueling skills, Opress was already a trained warrior before he was given his amp by the nightsisters.

People like Pre-Viszla have shown you can sword fight a Jedi without having any force training. Perhaps without even having the Force.

Taay'hai
Wow. If Revan tried to prove that in Vizsla's shoes, I think he'd fail badly tbh--or, well maybe not. Trask sword-fought Bandon like a pro so idk

SIDIOUS 66
Originally posted by Intrepid37
How the hell is he gonna overwhelm Maul?

SIDIOUS 66
We are all curious, LeGenD.

S_W_LeGenD

S_W_LeGenD

S_W_LeGenD

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Taay'hai
Adi Gallia didn't lose--the hall in the ship exploded and then she and Obi-Wan and Cody were gonna get sucked into space. Grievous ran away and she saved them all.
Ok! But do you think that she could defeat Grievous?

Her performance against Opress was terrible.

Originally posted by Taay'hai
Secondly, I don't really care for Revan's kill-count, because it depends on the kinds of kills he gets. I don't give a flying **** if he brought down a building. There's no building to bring down on a platform. Secondly, he's not gonna have any lightning to deflect back at the team. He doesn't possess every element the team has, and those that he does, the team has to a better extreme with their focused skill division.
You cannot have a debate with "I don't care" attitude.

I'd say that Revan will disorient the Strike Team with a powerful Force Wave and then unleash his signature FLS to destroy all of his opponents. Happy? Revan send Vitiate packing with his Force Wave like move and also have actually demonstrated the capability to utterly destroy a very powerful opponent with lightning. Revan is a practitioner of all both Jedi and Sith powers; he doesn't strictly adheres to any single philosophy so he can unleash his own lightning which would be logically very potent. Therefore, my claim is more credible then yours.

Originally posted by Taay'hai
Both Revan and Maul have brought down Mandalores.
Pre-Vizsla, for all his skill, couldn't bring down Lryze? That is lame for a self-proclaimed Mandalore. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Mandalore the Ultimate was the strongest Mandalorian in the Galaxy in his era and he organized the Mandalorians in to a major fighting force; capable of challenging the mighty Republic head-on. Combat wise, he could subdue a Jedi very easily. He was stronger then even Mandalore the Preserver who assisted Meetra in bringing down Nihilus. Killing such a powerful Mandalore is no small feat. In addition, Revan have slain many Mandalorians during the war and also tackled many Basilisks.

Originally posted by Taay'hai
They have both been reborn. They have both brought down several supports. They are very similar, you realize--but I don't recall him being god of everything, such as lightsaber combat.
Revan have much bigger accomplishments under his belt; his kill record is so big that a count have not been given; he have brought down Empires; reshaped history and vice versa. Revan would have destroyed even the hidden Sith Empire if he had not been betrayed, but the Force had other plans.

Originally posted by Taay'hai
The Hero of Tython defeated Vitiate while in a Nexus, and the maul bros can still take HoT down.
laughing out loud

Brothers couldn't kill Kenobi and you think that they would take HoT?

HoT have defeated very impressive adversaries in single combat; the list includes expert swordsmen and the mighty Emperor himself. You are absolutely clueless. HoT is likely to decimate the brothers in the similar fashion as Sidious did.

Originally posted by Taay'hai
Revan didn't kill Vitiate, and again, he hasn't any chance of assassinating Maul.
You are comparing Maul to Vitiate? Seriously? roll eyes (sarcastic)

Originally posted by Taay'hai
"Revan beats Maul head-on" my ass. He has a team with the combined power to beat Revan head-on, and Maul is capable of soloing Revan, or at least holding off against him. Ever heard the term "Ability vs. Environment", btw?
Heard this one before; stop being so delusional.

Originally posted by Taay'hai
Savage can play hookie with Revan like he did with pedestrians and throw him over the rail of the platform. If he tries to get back up, he can suck Maul's metal boot. Then Bo-Katan and Vizsla can bomb him off.
Revan will send all opponents packing with a powerful Force Wave and then unleash his deadly lightning to destroy them. Their is more merit in my assertion then yours, like it or not.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

That so-called big starship is a lightweight Eta-class shuttle. Also, Maul didn't actually lift that ship; he pulled it (continuously) towards the edge of the cliff until it fell down on its own. His face expression during the effort suggests that he was trying hard to pull off this feat. Seriously, your exaggerations are getting annoying.

Are you forgetting he did that feat from a fair distance, one handed while being shot at, and after he just had his legs blown off.

The fact that he still managed it shows that under normal circumstances he probably can do it quite easily.

As for the starship being a lightweight, it was still a ship. That's not a normal TK feat in SW.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
In addition, Kenobi isn't very good at defending himself against Force powers; he isn't noted for having great command of the Force.




I'm not sure if that's true at all. He always smacks Grievous around with the Force, not something every Jedi seems to manage.

In an early CW episode he was Force pushing Destoryer droids around. And lets not forget his stalemating Sith Anakin in a force push.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD


Her performance against Opress was terrible.




Even Kenobi has had terrible perfomances against Opress int he past. The guy has defeated Plo Koon and Asajj Ventress.

He may not be skilled but his raw force power and physical strength makes him very dangerous to the vast majority of Jedi.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Are you forgetting he did that feat from a fair distance, one handed while being shot at, and after he just had his legs blown off.

The fact that he still managed it shows that under normal circumstances he probably can do it quite easily.

As for the starship being a lightweight, it was still a ship. That's not a normal TK feat in SW.
Nicely put; but Maul isn't unique at performing a decent feat from great distance.

Some examples:

- Revan effortlessly collapsed a part of the structure from great distance to stop the advance of the reinforcements.

- Marek influenced the movement of an Imperial Starship from great distance.

- Luke manipulated a small blackhole from great distance.

- Sith Emperor controlled his Children from great distance.

As far as injury is concerned, wasn't his legs artificial? Zabraks are also gifted with impressive biological tolerance.

Maul was unfazed from the damage to his legs; he was experiencing no pain; blood loss; weakness and vice versa. Therefore, I don't think the damage to legs made any difference. I maintain my point that Maul could not perform that feat easily.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
I'm not sure if that's true at all. He always smacks Grievous around with the Force, not something every Jedi seems to manage.
Any well-trained Jedi can ragdoll Grievous with telekinetic abilities. It is not a big thing. I recall that Mace permanently injured Grievous with his telekinetic abilities. In addition, Mace remarked that Grievous is a coward and typically flees when he finds himself in danger. Grievous is practically defenseless against Force powers; his long survival is PIS.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
In an early CW episode he was Force pushing Destoryer droids around. And lets not forget his stalemating Sith Anakin in a force push.
That is expected from any well-trained Jedi. Being a Jedi Master, Obi-Wan shouldn't be a weakling and neither I expect him to be. However, my point is that Obi-Wan doesn't have Jedi Consular like abilities.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Even Kenobi has had terrible perfomances against Opress int he past. The guy has defeated Plo Koon and Asajj Ventress.
Opress is good; he was lacking in formal training.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
He may not be skilled but his raw force power and physical strength makes him very dangerous to the vast majority of Jedi.
I agree; but he doesn't stands a chance against the elites. People need to understand that Jedi like Revan emerge in a span of many generations and are few and far between. Lowballing of such characters is approaching borderline idiocy these days.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Nicely put; but Maul isn't unique at performing a decent feat from great distance.

Some examples:

- Revan collapsed a part of the structure from great distance to stop the advance of the reinforcements.

- Marek influenced the movement of an Imperial Starship from great distance.

- Luke manipulated a small blackhole from great distance.

- Sith Emperor controlled his Children from great distance.

Well 3 out of your 4 examples there are confirmed to be elite force beats.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
As far as injury is concerned, wasn't his legs artificial? Zabraks are also gifted with impressive biological tolerance.

Maul was unfazed from the damage to his legs; he was experiencing no pain; blood loss; weakness and vice versa. Therefore, I don't think the damage to legs made any difference. I maintain my point that Maul could not perform that feat easily.

He was busy deflecting blaster shots with one hand. He did the feat one handed. He did the feat relatively quickly.

Stuggling would be associated with him standing there, not distracted by anything else, and it still taking him a while to accomplish the feat.

The circumstances in which he performed the feat though were very impressive. Because it was in the midst of a desperate situation, so was not just a TK feat, but an impressive combat feat.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Any well-trained Jedi can ragdoll Grievous with telekinetic abilities. It is not a big thing. I recall that Mace permanently injured Grievous with his telekinetic abilities. In addition, Mace remarked that Grievous is a coward and typically flees when he finds himself in danger. Grievous is practically defenseless against Force powers; his long survival is PIS.

No not anyone can do that. Kit Fisto force pushed Grievous but it didn't end the fight.

Again Mace is another elite force beast. Bringing up elite force beasts does not prove anything, since they are not your average Jedi who are accomplishing such feats.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
That is expected from any well-trained Jedi. Being a Jedi Master, Obi-Wan shouldn't be a weakling and neither I expect him to be. However, my point is that Obi-Wan doesn't have Jedi Consular like abilities.

No it's not really expected.

The only other people I've seen throwing around Destroyer Droids mid-fight are Mace and a Rage enhanced Opress.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Opress is good; he was lacking in formal training.


I agree; but he doesn't stands a chance against the elites.

Of course. But then elites are only a handful. As of the PT they are 2 Jedi, 2 Sith and 1 Skywalker.

Intrepid37
Laptop's broken. Answers later.

S_W_LeGenD

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I recall more examples:

- Tulak Hord pulled a Starship from the sky to the ground.

- Vader once Force choked an officer from great distance?

Not sure about Hord, but Vader's an Uber Force beast.

And Maul's feat is actually one of the higher end feats we've witnessed in higher canon.



Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You should re-watch the video; yes, he performed the feat with one hand but he fully concentrated on it. Also, he continuously pulled until the Shuttle fell off the cliff; it was not a work of a mere gesture. The shuttle was already standing very close to the edge of the cliff so Maul didn't had to invest lot of time to make it fall. Don't get me wrong; feat is impressive and confirms that Maul is strong in the Force. However, their is no need to exaggerate it.


I'm hardly exaggerating it. The guy just had his legs blown off. You say that wouldn't hurt him or effect him at all. I find that hard to believe but fine. He was being carried by his brother and had to deflect blaster fire himself, as his brother had no free arm to do so.

In the small gap he had to stop deflecting blaster fire power he pulled down that craft.

Even if he did it with difficulty. Surely from a stationery position, being closer to the Craft and using both hands (i.e. all his power) it should be relatively easy for him.

I would definitely give him more credit for that then I would give Opress for force pushing a Larger Jedi craft, but doing so from a stationery and less desperate position.




Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD



Is Grievous resistant to Force powers? As I pointed out before, Grievous's long survival is a product of PIS. This or many PT era Jedi seriously lack in Force mastery department. Don't get me wrong; Grievous is a marvel of engineering but a Jedi with decent level of Force mastery should be able to dominate him in combat..

Well all I know is Kit Fisto force pushed him and he took it, and carried on fighting. Whilst every time Kenobi force pushed him he ran for his life, and was usually disarmed of all his weapons.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD




Destroyer Droid is not a big machine.

And yet they usually have Jedi on the run. Kenobi was pushing one with enough force to take out several other droids. That's not the usual Force TK we see from Jedi.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Not sure about Hord, but Vader's an Uber Force beast.
Does that feat leaves any doubt about Hord's power? The starship involved was as big as Endar Spire.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
I'm hardly exaggerating it. The guy just had his legs blown off. You say that wouldn't hurt him or effect him at all. I find that hard to believe but fine. He was being carried by his brother and had to deflect blaster fire himself, as his brother had no free arm to do so.
Those weren't his real legs, right? Maul didn't display an sign of weakness or issue after his legs were damaged; this implies that Maul was OK. In addition, the blaster fire stopped for some reason when Maul started to perform his feat; Maul fully concentrated on performing that feat, but he did so with one hand.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
In the small gap he had to stop deflecting blaster fire power he pulled down that craft.
See above.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Even if he did it with difficulty. Surely from a stationery position, being closer to the Craft and using both hands (i.e. all his power) it should be relatively easy for him.
Fair enough. I wouldn't use the word "easy" but the same task might be less challenging for him with this level of effort involved.

Even if we are to assume that Maul has got some more in him then this feat; do you think that Maul can actually lift that aircraft? I doubt it.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Well all I know is Kit Fisto force pushed him and he took it, and carried on fighting. Whilst every time Kenobi force pushed him he ran for his life, and was usually disarmed of all his weapons.
Fisto's Force push did knock him out for a moment.

Fisto is also noted for his swordsmanship skills rather then command of the Force.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
And yet they usually have Jedi on the run. Kenobi was pushing one with enough force to take out several other droids. That's not the usual Force TK we see from Jedi.
Because of their firepower. Though I don't see why handling a droid of that size with the Force would be such a difficult task for a Jedi.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Those weren't his real legs, right?

Luke didn't chop off Vader's real arm when Vader shouted right?

Luke was in pain when his fake hand was shot right?

In the Clone War mini, Anakin did scream when his cyborg arm was blown up right?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Even if we are to assume that Maul has got some more in him; do you think that Maul can lift that aircraft? Somehow I doubt this.

If he's just standing there right next to it, and uses all his power then I don't see why not. Of course I can't prove that he could though. But it seems reasonable given the context in which he moved the craft.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Fisto's Force push did put him down for a moment. Fisto is also noted for his swordsmanship skills rather then command of the Force.

He is a Council Member. And yet Kenobi's Force pushes have always been far more effective against Grievous. So clearly Kenobi is not weak in that department.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Because of their firepower. Though I don't see why handling a droid of that size with the Force would be such a difficult task for a Jedi.

Do you have examples of regular Jedi Force pushing objects that size to that extent, crushing other droids in their path?

Kenobi's TK is clearly a fair bit above your average Jedi by feats.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Luke didn't chop off Vader's real arm when Vader shouted right?

Luke was in pain when his fake hand was shot right?

In the Clone War mini, Anakin did scream when his cyborg arm was blown up right?
Zabraks are not humans, right? wink

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
If he's just standing there right next to it, and uses all his power then I don't see why not. Of course I can't prove that he could though. But it seems reasonable given the context in which he moved the craft.
Their is substantial difference between dragging and lifting an object of that size and weight. The latter is going to be lot more tedious task because it involves defying the gravitational force itself. I don't see Maul being capable of the latter task; he is not Yoda.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
He is a Council Member. And yet Kenobi's Force pushes have always been far more effective against Grievous. So clearly Kenobi is not weak in that department.
Colman Trebor was also a Council member, remember?

Is having great power a requirement for securing a seat in the Jedi Order Council?

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Do you have examples of regular Jedi Force pushing objects that size to that extent, crushing other droids in their path?
Why would sending a Droideka packing with a Force push would be an impressive feat? It weighs only 75 kg. Come on...

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Kenobi's TK is clearly a fair bit above your average Jedi by feats.
This is because of limited exploration of many other characters in the context of Force powers; I am hesitant to rate Kenobi as above average in the Force mastery department. He is an above average Jedi in the whole context but he is not like a Jedi Consular.

Nephthys
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Luke didn't chop off Vader's real arm when Vader shouted right?

Luke was in pain when his fake hand was shot right?

In the Clone War mini, Anakin did scream when his cyborg arm was blown up right?

Those were proper cybernetc legs though, that were likely actually attached to nerves etc. Maul had robot legs attached by magic.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Nephthys
Those were proper cybernetc legs though, that were likely actually attached to nerves etc. Maul had robot legs attached by magic.
Thanks for your input. This solves it.

SIDIOUS 66
If I recall correctly, Maul shouts when his leg was blasted off, which seems to indicate pain.

Intrepid37
Responding via Xbox 360 is hard so I'm gonna do it short: In lightsaber combat, Maul has been hyped far higher than Revan; accolades such as being among the deadliest Sith in history and being a "high-end master of multiple forms", not to mention his showings of killing Qui-Gon Jinn, defeating Opress and defeating Kenobi. Combine that with being physically stronger and faster and mastering martial arts, Maul undoubtedly wins. In a force contest, Maul has collapsed caves and manhandled Kenobi's ship while evading blasterfire not to mention numerous ragdollings of Kenobi who himself has force pushed Durge's starfighter and rather stalemated Pre-Suit Vader in a contest of force power; Pre-Suit Vader was able to easily levitate a big statue in the Jedi Temple and then blasted a door open with it. In an all-out fight, Revan's chances are small. Maul is more skilled, stronger and faster and should he get up close, which is likely, he should have little trouble dealing a deadly blow. Revan's best chance would be to exploit Maul's lack of knowledge in the force in comparison to his, but with Maul's own feats and with a lightsaber in his hands, everything point toward a victory for Maul.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Nephthys
Those were proper cybernetc legs though, that were likely actually attached to nerves etc. Maul had robot legs attached by magic.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Thanks for your input. This solves it.

Not really. He's just pointed out that Maul's legs were attached in a different manner. He hasn't proven at all that Maul had no feeling in those legs.

Since the rule in SW is that people do have feeling in their cybernetic limbs, someone needs to prove Maul had no feeling in his, otherwise the point is moot.

Nephthys
Lol. If you actually watch the episode in which he gets them, you'll see that his legs are attached by frickin' metal cables. Now I'm not big city doctor, but I doubt metal can substitute for nerves very well.

The_Tempest
http://www.sectalk.com/board/public/imported_images/ohnblog.com/ani_wtf_cube.gif

Maul shouldn't have feeling in his legs. But he clearly does, as expressed by his scream of anguish the moment Hondo's pirates shoot them off.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by Nephthys
Lol. If you actually watch the episode in which he gets them, you'll see that his legs are attached by frickin' metal cables. Now I'm not big city doctor, but I doubt metal can substitute for nerves very well.


They were attached magically, so you can't equate logic to it.

The_Tempest
And a big lol @ dismissing Maul's ragdolling of the executive shuttle, but Revan is the stronger Force user just cuz.

Nephthys
Originally posted by The_Tempest
http://www.sectalk.com/board/public/imported_images/ohnblog.com/ani_wtf_cube.gif

Maul shouldn't have feeling in his legs. But he clearly does, as expressed by his scream of anguish the moment Hondo's pirates shoot them off.

That was a scream? I thought it was the sound of whateverthe**** he got shot by.

The_Tempest
Originally posted by Nephthys
That was a scream? I thought it was the sound of whateverthe**** he got shot by.

My closed captioning on itunes calls it a scream and it sure sounds like one to me.

Nephthys
Could just be frustration.

The_Tempest
Originally posted by Nephthys
Could just be frustration.

Sounds like pain, but the book implies it's one of fury and desperation. Conceded.

Nephthys
Wow, I was just talking out of my ass there. Score one for the darkside!

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by The_Tempest
And a big lol @ dismissing Maul's ragdolling of the executive shuttle, but Revan is the stronger Force user just cuz.
Maul didn't actually rag-dolled the shuttle; he pulled it off the cliff. The feat makes it obvious that Maul is strong in the Force, so no dismissal is involved.

As far as Revan is concerned, he is calculative about his actions. We do not have a single example of him going all-out with his TK abilities; we don't know his limit. However, given his repute and all the praise, he certainly wouldn't disappoint in a contest of Force powers.

If we only apply feats based logic in debates then Marek should waste Sidious (Pre-DE period) with his Force powers. Lesson is that feats are good to put on the table but evaluation process of a character's relative strength and capabilities doesn't rests upon this single factor/consideration. Feats are just part of the equation.

Nephthys
If its valid, Karpyshans assertion that Revan can destroy a building puts him higher than Maul in power and TK imo. Buildingbuster > pulling a shuttle.

Revan still gets stomped though

The_Tempest
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
As far as Revan is concerned, he is calculative about his actions. We do not have a single example of him going all-out with his TK abilities; we don't know his limit. However, given his repute and all the praise, he certainly wouldn't disappoint in a contest of Force powers.

Yet you favorably consider repute only when it involves a character from an era you like.

We should accept as the gospel the idea Revan is the Jedi order's "most powerful champion" but someone counters with the fact that Maul is one of the most highly trained Sith in history and you have a goddamn allergic reaction.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
If we only apply feats based logic in debates then Marek should waste Sidious (Pre-DE period) with his Force powers.

No, because we have a source that flat out confirms Marek is inferior to Sidious.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Lesson is that feats are good to put on the table but evaluation process of a character's relative strength and capabilities doesn't rests upon this single factor/consideration. Feats are just part of the equation.

This is great on paper. But your execution of it has been wretched from the get-go.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Intrepid37
In lightsaber combat, Maul has been hyped far higher than Revan; accolades such as being among the deadliest Sith in history and being a "high-end master of multiple forms", not to mention his showings of killing Qui-Gon Jinn, defeating Opress and defeating Kenobi. Combine that with being physically stronger and faster and mastering martial arts, Maul undoubtedly wins.
If we are going to resort to accolades based logic then Revan easily outclasses Maul in this aspect. And if we are going by performance against noteworthy combatants then Revan outclasses Maul in this aspect too. As far as dueling skills are concerned, Revan is no slouch in this aspect either and I have already covered this part. If you are going to use Qui-Gon card then I am going to use the Imperial Guard card in response. Your arguments are weak.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
In a force contest, Maul has collapsed caves and manhandled Kenobi's ship while evading blasterfire not to mention numerous ragdollings of Kenobi who himself has force pushed Durge's starfighter and rather stalemated Pre-Suit Vader in a contest of force power; Pre-Suit Vader was able to easily levitate a big statue in the Jedi Temple and then blasted a door open with it.
This kind of argument have already been shot down but you keep on parroting it; ignoring counterarguments of fellow debaters is not going to win you an argument. Pay attention to what others have to say if you are willing to have a debate. Otherwise, you will be projecting the image of a stubborn fanboy who cannot be reasoned with.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
In an all-out fight, Revan's chances are small. Maul is more skilled, stronger and faster and should he get up close, which is likely, he should have little trouble dealing a deadly blow. Revan's best chance would be to exploit Maul's lack of knowledge in the force in comparison to his, but with Maul's own feats and with a lightsaber in his hands, everything point toward a victory for Maul.
Don't you get tired from repeating subjective assertions like these?

Nephthys
Originally posted by The_Tempest
No, because we have a source that flat out confirms Marek is inferior to Sidious.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
If we only apply feats based logic in debates then Marek should waste Sidious (Pre-DE period) with his Force powers.

The_Tempest
Neph, use your +3 critical analysis instead of +9 lie your ass off plz.

In the case where feats are being used to determine relative placement, we clearly lack narration or confirmation of that placement. Otherwise we wouldn't use feats at all. SWL is trying to use that particular example to get me to concede the point, I was simply explaining that that example is not one that need be determined at all by feats because we have direct confirmation.

Savvy? thumb up

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Yet you favorably consider repute only when it involves a character from an era you like.
I attempt to do justice with all characters involved.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
We should accept as the gospel the idea Revan is the Jedi order's "most powerful champion" but someone counters with the fact that Maul is one of the most highly trained Sith in history and you have a goddamn allergic reaction.
I regard Revan as one of the most powerful Jedi in the history of the Order by virtue of all the accolades he have received within the mythos. With such repute, why is it so difficult for some to digest the assumption that Revan isn't a looser when it comes to command of the Force? Just because a character is not featured in big budget mediums, doesn't means that we should lowball him/her in comparison to more well defined and explored characters.

And "Maul being most highly trained Sith in history" based assertion has been ret-conned lately; I suppose you have read the Plagueis novel and you are in touch with all the latest developments in the mythos?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
No, because we have a source that flat out confirms Marek is inferior to Sidious.
Fair enough but my point is about relying solely on the feats based logic to determine chances of a character against other. This kind of logic isn't going to work as per numerous examples offered in this thread alone.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
This is great on paper. But your execution of it has been wretched from the get-go.
I can bring my arguments on the table; whether people accept them or not is up to them. However, I am going to stick by my arguments unless someone manages to convince me otherwise. I am flexible in my views. Issue arises when people don't listen to my arguments and keep on parroting their POV like gospel.

Nephthys
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Neph, use your +3 critical analysis instead of +9 lie your ass off plz.

In the case where feats are being used to determine relative placement, we clearly lack narration or confirmation of that placement. Otherwise we wouldn't use feats at all. SWL is trying to use that particular example to get me to concede the point, I was simply explaining that that example is not one that need be determined at all by feats because we have direct confirmation.

Savvy? thumb up

Careful, your high horse is in heat. T'would be a terrible shame if you fell off it and broke your spine as it humps a nearby arse.

I know, its just that you didn't seem to be making that point in that response. It looked like you'd just missed his point and were obliviously responding to his literal suggestion that Galen > Sidious.

The_Tempest
But you don't. In fact, you don't come close.

And it has nothing to do with preference; plenty of people around here prefer one character or one era over another without being quite so lopsided and heavy handed with interpretation.



no expression

This is kinda the crux of the problem, isn't it?

You conflate the belief of certain people that Revan would lose to certain characters as a belief that Revan is "a loser when it comes to the command of the Force."

More importantly, you're more than guilty of using stylistic differences in mediums to your advantage when it's there (as you've been doing with Vitiate et al.). But when it's not to your advantage, you cry foul.



No, it hasn't. What's been introduced is the idea that Sidious advertised Maul as a tool to Plagueis. Yet Maul is still regarded as the "Sith apprentice" to Darth Sidious on the official website and in other, contemporary sources.

You're manipulating a character's perception of another character and attempting to pass it off as the gospel in order to invalidate a quote you don't like.



And I agree with that.

But you only apply it with respect to characters you happen to like. When it involves characters you don't like, you default to feat wars. When you claim Vitiate is the most powerful whatever, you hammer your opponent with feat after feat after feat after feat and expect it to be the end all. But when Revan's involved, you attack others for determining his relative weakness on feats.



erm

Arhael
http://s7.postimg.org/xa0t55hfr/popcorn.gif

S_W_LeGenD

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

And "Maul being most highly trained Sith in history" based assertion has been ret-conned lately; I suppose you have read the Plagueis novel and you are in touch with all the latest developments in the mythos?






What part of Plagueis retconned that assertion?

TCW series makes it perfectly clear that Maul was trained exceptionally well by Sidious.

Intrepid37
Apparantly I have now been caught several times exaggerating Maul's power...

...and apparantly you don't know what a retcon is, Legend. Adi Gallia's death have been retconned in newer canon material i.e contradicted. Maul being one of the most dangerous hasn't been contradicted, especially considering canon proof confirms he's gotten even more powerful.

DARTH POWER

axel_jovan
I'm glad to see TCW Maul gets some more respect that he certainly deserves. thumb up

Unfortunately it does not bode well for Revan, and by extension, to some other TOR era characters.... sad

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Apparantly I have now been caught several times exaggerating Maul's power...
Yes. Unashamedly, I would say. Revisit all of my responses on pages 5 and 6.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
...and apparantly you don't know what a retcon is, Legend. Adi Gallia's death have been retconned in newer canon material i.e contradicted.
I do understand the concept of retcon.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Maul being one of the most dangerous hasn't been contradicted, especially considering canon proof confirms he's gotten even more powerful.
This statement:

Darth Maul is one of the most highly trained Sith in the history of the order. (Episode I Visual Dictionary)

Is under scrutiny and apparently retconned in the Plagueis novel. Maul is more of a brute then a well-trained Sith Lord.

----

Also, "being one of the most dangerous" is also a very old accolade; Yes, Maul have emerged stronger during the Clone Wars but I do maintain that Maul is not a heavyweight in the light of latest developments in the mythos. As an example: Darth Malgus would destroy Maul rather easily and even he is "one of the prominent" individuals in the Empire. And the Empire have very long history which suggests that many (super) powerful Sith Lords have emerged and passed. Then we have KoTOR 2 monsters and many more. Seriously, it would be unwise of you to toss around old accolades given to Maul like gospel in the light of latest developments in the mythos.

Maul is definitely "above average" and one of the strongest in his era. However, he is not impressive when the whole history is considered. Also, impressive feats, are a norm in big-budget/screen mediums in current times, so Maul isn't unique in this regard.

Originally posted by axel_jovan
Unfortunately it does not bode well for Revan, and by extension, to some other TOR era characters.... sad
Elaborate!

The_Tempest
Nope.



haermm



lol

If Intrepid37 is biased towards Maul, this is the only thread in which he's displayed it. You, on the other hand, have been demonstrably biased towards Revan, Malak, and KotOR/TOR characters since your day of registration. At its very best, this is a case of the pot calling the kettle black.



And you haven't been doing the exact same thing with PT/OT characters viz a viz KotOR/TOR era characters? erm



No, they just don't think as highly of him as you do. And they don't have to.

What do you make of this assertion of Plagueis?



...I've read the book and I'm familiar with the quote and it's already been explained to you: Sidious presented Maul to Plagueis as an expendable tool but secretly trained him as a full-blown Sith.

The Ultimate Visual Guide: Updated and Expanded (released months after Plagueis) still refers to Maul as a Sith apprentice, as does the official website. Let it go, Maul's accolade stands.



Nah, that's horseshit. You want to reduce an argument to feat wars when it's in your advantage to do so. Quit b1tching that your opponent does the same.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Nope.
And I must take your word for it?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
haermm
Kindly provide some examples, if you can.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
lol

If Intrepid37 is biased towards Maul, this is the only thread in which he's displayed it. You, on the other hand, have been demonstrably biased towards Revan, Malak, and KotOR/TOR characters since your day of registration. At its very best, this is a case of the pot calling the kettle black.
I debate in favor of these characters because they are commonly misrepresented and illogically lowballed in the "versus" threads. Majority of my arguments are supported by evidence and logically constructed, though my record is not without mistakes (which is the case with almost everybody). On the whole, I have debated in favor of characters of different eras; and not just TOR era ones. If I am "biased" in the favor of TOR era lore by virtue of my posting history then you are also "biased" in the favor of PT/OT (and newer era) lore by the same token.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
And you haven't been doing the exact same thing with PT/OT characters viz a viz KotOR/TOR era characters? erm
No! I don't subscribe to the notion that TOR era characters are inferior to PT/OT/newer era characters in power and skill. Somehow PT/OT/newer era fans believe this to be the case and they have advanced this agenda on the basis of misrepresenting statements of GL (ironically links are never provided by them) and reliance on (outdated) information. Same pattern have been observed in this thread.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
No, they just don't think as highly of him as you do. And they don't have to.
Then why single me out for ridicule?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
...I've read the book and I'm familiar with the quote and it's already been explained to you: Sidious presented Maul to Plagueis as an expendable tool but secretly trained him as a full-blown Sith.
Why doesn't he demonstrates Sith powers like Dooku and Sidious?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
The Ultimate Visual Guide: Updated and Expanded (released months after Plagueis) still refers to Maul as a Sith apprentice, as does the official website. Let it go, Maul's accolade stands.
Of-course, Maul is a Sith apprentice; you think that he would be regarded as a Jedi apprentice?

My focus is on what kind of training he received?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Nah, that's horseshit. You want to reduce an argument to feat wars when it's in your advantage to do so. Quit b1tching that your opponent does the same.
I don't reduce my arguments to feat wars; do you see my arguments restricted to feats based information only in my debates?

In this thread alone, my arguments are not restricted to feats based information. Maybe you need new (shiny) glasses.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD


Is under scrutiny and apparently retconned in the Plagueis novel. Maul is more of a brute then a well-trained Sith Lord.



Either you've not seen all TCW episodes featuring Maul or you've completely missed what they were showing. Maul was heavily trained in the ways of the Sith by Darth Sidious.

He used Sidious's trianing to become a new Galactic threat. He was clearly much more than the brute your making him out to be.

So how you interpret what Plagueis thought was the case is irrelevant.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Either you've not seen all TCW episodes featuring Maul or you've completely missed what they were showing. Maul was heavily trained in the ways of the Sith by Darth Sidious.

He used Sidious's trianing to become a new Galactic threat. He was clearly much more than the brute your making him out to be.

So how you interpret what Plagueis thought was the case is irrelevant.
Have I stated that Maul is weak in the Force or have not received formal Sith training?

I am pointing out the fact that Maul haven't demonstrated high-level Sith knowledge which is necessary for his advancement within the Sith hierarchy.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Have I stated that Maul is weak in the Force or have not received formal Sith training?

I am pointing out the fact that Maul haven't demonstrated high-level Sith knowledge which is necessary for his advancement within the Sith hierarchy.

What kind of Sith Knowledge are you referring to? Does Count Dooku qualify?

Nephthys
No Force lightning ergo he sucks. Tru fax.

The_Tempest
You could take the word of the dozens of posters who, over the years, have called you out on it.



This discussion right here is enough of an example.



More horseshit for the mountain range of it you've been collecting. You occasionally debating in favor of non-TOR!characters does not disprove the existence of a general bias in favor of them.



Yeah, except unlike you, I (a) don't deny my bias and (b) still debate under single standards.



I know. But you do subscribe to the notion that PT/OT/newer era characters are inferior in power and skill to TOR era characters.



You just tried to misrepresent G-canon for your own agenda in another thread. Why should I sympathize with you since you use the same tactics your enemies claim to use?



Because you, by far, demonstrate the most egregious bias and dishonest debating methodology out of the SWVF roster of regular posters.

People don't have to think Vitiate is weaksauce to think that he's not the most powerful Sith Lord ever.



Because he's not as powerful as Dooku or Sidious?

Likewise, you say members of the Dark Council are some of the most powerful Sith in the galaxy... why don't they demonstrate the same sort of powers as Vitiate?

I'll tell you why: because being one of the most powerful X doesn't make you as powerful as Y. Similarly, Maul being "one of" the most highly trained Sith Lords in history doesn't mean he has to be as skilled as Dooku or Sidious.



The quote is repeated again in the 2013 revival of the Star Wars Fact File, SWL. Let it go.



Glasses on or off, I see you piss and moan when people use your tactics for characters you don't like. Either conform to a single standard or quit b1tching.

Intrepid37
Tempest is annihilating here. thumb up

Intrepid37

Intrepid37

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Which reinforces my point that he wasn't second to none in the Order as his apprentice claimed him to be. Actions speak louder then words.

Originally posted by Intrepid37


...or maybe Maul is just that good?




If we're talking about Anoon Bondara it was repeated in "Cloak of Deception" that his skills with a Saber were second to none.

This time it was from Qui-Gon's POV.

Taay'hai
SWLegend, you have two problems. You're highly underestimating Darth Maul's abilities, and you're the biggest Revan fanboy anybody could meet.

Secondly, I never compared Darth Maul to Vitiate. Maul and his team are the confronters--notice I used the word TEAM? With his extra support, he hasn't a chance of immediate infiltration/assassination. I didn't see Revan suddenly assassinating anyone in the Imperial Strike Team--not even the Agent or bounty hunter!

If I remember clearly (and I do), Savage in his rage-enhanced mode caused by pain that you expect him to endure plenty of thx to Revan, can create a Force Repulse that is extremely difficult to defend against. Secondly, Pre Vizsla and Bo-Katan are incredibly skilled in hand-to-hand. Maul is the best saberist, acrobat, and so on.

Savage has produced Force waves already. His physically enhanced saber blows send people flying, as shown in season 3.

Vizsla has overpowered Obi-Wan in hand-to-hand combat even while he was armed with a lightsaber. He fought as well as he did against Ahsoka while he was drunk. He gave even Maul a hard time. And he's the best Mandalorian swordsman I've ever seen in all of Star Wars as of yet.

Bo-Katan almost single-handedly took on four Mandalorian Super Commandos with only her body, she packed an incredible punch against Ahsoka while on top of the hull of moving, fast speeder. The only fear she ever had was of Vizsla's death. But there's no fast speeder to fight on so that doesn't count here.

Maul has overpowered/killed many Jedi using both the Force and his lightsaber. His display of power was quoted several times by Intrepid.

S_W_LeGenD

Taay'hai
Hm. SWLegend, I think this was a bit more well said than before. I think I've reached some agreements. Revan is indeed very powerful. I just got very frustrated that every argument in this thread was focused on the battle between Darth Maul and Revan while he has an entire team at his disposal.

I've said rude things to you and I apologize too. I'm gonna get SWTOR: Revan this week and see for myself, and compare his abilities to the team's.

S_W_LeGenD
Thanks. Do explore TOR era lore...

I would recommend you to get following books:-

http://www.amazon.com/Knights-Republic-Campaign-Guide-Roleplaying/dp/0786949236

http://www.amazon.com/Star-Wars-The-Republic-Encyclopedia/dp/0756698391

You may also try the games, if you have time.

Taay'hai
I've played KotOR I and SWTOR--just haven't got to the Revan flashpoint yet.

Dark-Kenshin
In light of recent feats, I'm inclined to believe that Revan comes out of this with mid-difficulty at most. Bo-Kotan and Vizsla go down with motionless force chokes from Revan, much like the ones Sidious used on the DeathWatch guards. While they're gasping for air, Revan engages Maul and Savage Oppress simultaneously. With his superior combat experience, dealing with their combined efforts is a routine exercise at most, much like their failed effort to take on Sidious. Growing bored of their dance, Revan sends Maul and Oppress flying into a nearby wall with a force wave and finishes them off accordingly.

ILS
LMFAO.

Stigma
Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
In light of recent feats, I'm inclined to believe that Revan comes out of this with mid-difficulty at most. Bo-Kotan and Vizsla go down with motionless force chokes from Revan, much like the ones Sidious used on the DeathWatch guards. While they're gasping for air, Revan engages Maul and Savage Oppress simultaneously. With his superior combat experience, dealing with their combined efforts is a routine exercise at most, much like their failed effort to take on Sidious. Growing bored of their dance, Revan sends Maul and Oppress flying into a nearby wall with a force wave and finishes them off accordingly.
LOL

Dark-Kenshin
wink

McP
Team stomps. Revan might be able to survive perhaps 20 seconds at best.

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
In light of recent feats, I'm inclined to believe that Revan comes out of this with mid-difficulty at most. Bo-Kotan and Vizsla go down with motionless force chokes from Revan, much like the ones Sidious used on the DeathWatch guards. While they're gasping for air, Revan engages Maul and Savage Oppress simultaneously. With his superior combat experience, dealing with their combined efforts is a routine exercise at most, much like their failed effort to take on Sidious. Growing bored of their dance, Revan sends Maul and Oppress flying into a nearby wall with a force wave and finishes them off accordingly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F96ghXk8FXg

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