John Harrison vs Simon Phoenix

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Lestov16
Bloodlusted H2H fight to the death
Who takes it?

Impediment
Where at? Scenario?

Darth Martin
facepalm

BruceSkywalker
who is simon phoenix?? please post vids??? also Lestov have you even bothered to see Star Trek Into Darkness

Darth Martin
Wesley Snipes' character from Demolition.

Impediment
Simon Phoenix (Wesley Snipes) from Demolition Man, Mark.

He looked awesome as a blonde. Ha ha.

Lestov16
The scenario is that it's a bloodlusted pure H2H fight. It takes place in an empty dojo.

Darth Martin
Definitely spite.

Lestov16
Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
also Lestov have you even bothered to see Star Trek Into Darkness

Do I have the cash and time to run out on a whim and go to the theater just to comment on a online forum? No. No I don't. Please forgive me, Czar of the Celluloid that you are. Is it relevant to the thread, because this seems like a good matchup. Harrison was a defrosted super-soldier, and so was Phoenix (to an extent). Am I wrong?

Lestov16
Originally posted by Darth Martin
Definitely spite.

Damn. I guess I was wrong.

BruceSkywalker
Originally posted by Darth Martin
Wesley Snipes' character from Demolition.

Originally posted by Impediment
Simon Phoenix (Wesley Snipes) from Demolition Man, Mark.

He looked awesome as a blonde. Ha ha.



oh that film was shit.. the victor shall be KHANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN
NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN.. .. John Harrison was basically unstoppable , the only thing that took him down was when Kirk surprised him by shooting him and then when Uhura stunned him several times ... this being h2h, he took Kirk's punches so no reason really for me to believe he can't tank Phoenix's moves as well

Lestov16
I see. Was he bend-metal strong, lightning fast, or both?

KingD19
Phoenix has some pretty glaringly uber physical feats.

BruceSkywalker
Originally posted by Lestov16
I see. Was he bend-metal strong, lightning fast, or both?


what does bending have to do with anything...if you have not seen Star Trek Into Darkness first off why in blue blazes make this thread?? second have Matt close the thread until you see the film, then he can re open it

Lestov16
Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
second have Matt close the thread until you see the film, then he can re open it

Yeah....that's not going to happen. What would be the difference?



Originally posted by KingD19
Phoenix has some pretty glaringly uber physical feats.

Yes he does. He was also superhumanly enhanced. It's why I thought this would be a good matchup.

BruceSkywalker
Originally posted by Lestov16
Yeah....that's not going to happen. What would be the difference?





Yes he does. He was also superhumanly enhanced. It's why I thought this would be a good matchup.

not my concern since you haven't seen the film.. khan is also superhuman

Lestov16
Is he better than Phoenix, another superhuman? Because you say he is, and KingD19 says otherwise. i'm not debating this thread so it's not me you have to convince.

KingD19
I know Phoenix with one hand picked up a full grown man from inside his police cruiser while standing on the hood, then casually flung him like 20 feet away over his back.

Lestov16
Can Khan contend with that? Also didn't Phoenix no-sell punches at one point?

Impediment
Khan does this to Simon:

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c166/Impediment/funny-gifs-hulk-vs-loki.gif

KingD19
What were some of HarriKhan's feats?

quanchi112
Khan destroys him.

KingD19
Those are his feats?

quanchi112
Originally posted by KingD19
Those are his feats? What ?

Lestov16
Exactly. You have to list some feats. What exactly has he done that surpasses Phoenix?

BruceSkywalker
Originally posted by Impediment
Khan does this to Simon:

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c166/Impediment/funny-gifs-hulk-vs-loki.gif

this about sums it up.. Khan tanked being punched.. also took a few phaser blasts before being knocked out.. Phoenix loses

KingD19
Phoenix tanked punches as well. And his strength from his feats shown is much higher than Vulcan and Romulan, and considering they're 3x Human, and Khan is 5x, Phoenix is arguably stronger than Khan as well. Which means Khan won't be no selling his punches.

quanchi112
Originally posted by KingD19
Phoenix tanked punches as well. And his strength from his feats shown is much higher than Vulcan and Romulan, and considering they're 3x Human, and Khan is 5x, Phoenix is arguably stronger than Khan as well. Which means Khan won't be no selling his punches. Nonsense. Khan crushes him and in no time. Don't compare wimps from Demolition Man to Khan. World was soft in that future it was a key point.

KingD19
Still doesn't take away from Phoenix literally tossing a man over his back at least 20 feet with one hand. And while crouching down on the hood of a car and yanking him out of it all in one motion.

Also people in that future were genetically altered to be better when they were created to be born.

quanchi112
Originally posted by KingD19
Still doesn't take away from Phoenix literally tossing a man over his back at least 20 feet with one hand. And while crouching down on the hood of a car and yanking him out of it all in one motion.

Also people in that future were genetically altered to be better when they were created to be born. A weak man. Khan took out military futuristic trained warriors like nothing.

Khan is far superior to Simon. Better feats as well.

KingD19
What feats? You never stated any. And him being physically weak, which is specluation on your part because people doesn't make sense since it was stated that people don't have babies anymore. The man and woman's DNA are put in with other choice genetic traits to make a child in a lab. There's also the fact that even if he was weak, that doesn't take away Phoenix tossing him like a ragdoll at least 20 feet. That was a grown man, at least 150+lbs.

Fail champ.

quanchi112
Originally posted by KingD19
What feats? You never stated any. And him being physically weak, which is specluation on your part because people doesn't make sense since it was stated that people don't have babies anymore. The man and woman's DNA are put in with other choice genetic traits to make a child in a lab. There's also the fact that even if he was weak, that doesn't take away Phoenix tossing him like a ragdoll at least 20 feet. That was a grown man, at least 150+lbs.

Fail champ. Klingons, destroying anyone and everyone he ever fought in hand to hand, Kirk hurting his hand hitting him. Khan destroys weak ass criminal who needed to rule a weak world without fatalities for crying out loud.

KingD19
Lol. You're trying so hard to underplay Phoenix. You can't deny the strength he showed, which would be more than enough to hurt Khan. And the world doesn't matter, he was a killer boosted with enhanced strength/stamina/agility/durability, and skills. You can't say he can't hurt Khan when he's clearly able to.

And he has better skills as well.

Lestov16
Major Khan wankage going on here laughing out loud

Kazenji
Originally posted by Lestov16
i'm not debating this thread so it's not me you have to convince.

Your not debating this thread but you made the verse's erm


i guess i better make a bunch of verses then and not actually participate in them.

Lestov16
i'll debate in this one, because this is a pretty even matchup. I think Anti-Tax Man takes this, because what he's done seems far more impressive than Sherlock tanking Kirk's punch.

quanchi112
Originally posted by KingD19
Lol. You're trying so hard to underplay Phoenix. You can't deny the strength he showed, which would be more than enough to hurt Khan. And the world doesn't matter, he was a killer boosted with enhanced strength/stamina/agility/durability, and skills. You can't say he can't hurt Khan when he's clearly able to.

And he has better skills as well. I doubt he could hurt Khan due to his regenerative abilities. Yes, the point was the world was weak indeed and that's why he could do what he did. Stallone was all that was needed to stop him.

KingD19
So the world being weak allowed him to lift a fully grown man in full police gear out of his car through the shattered windshield, and casually fling him at least 20 feet away, possibly more?

That's stupid. Being able to throw somebody that far that easily with one hand indicates massive strength. Far stronger than Vulcans or Romulans have shown to be in the Alternate Star Trek, and as they're only 3x humans, and Khan is supposedly 5x, Phoenix is probably above him as well.

quanchi112
Originally posted by KingD19
So the world being weak allowed him to lift a fully grown man in full police gear out of his car through the shattered windshield, and casually fling him at least 20 feet away, possibly more?

That's stupid. Being able to throw somebody that far that easily with one hand indicates massive strength. Far stronger than Vulcans or Romulans have shown to be in the Alternate Star Trek, and as they're only 3x humans, and Khan is supposedly 5x, Phoenix is probably above him as well. No, he isn't since Stallone rocks him. Khan resists multiple stuns and Kirk can't even hurt him despite him,showing quite a punch in the reboots.

Newjak
I would like to see a video of Simon doing that police throwing thing cause I watched Demo Man a lot and that feat sounds pretty inconsistent with the rest of his feats.

Simon was never physically enhanced he was just mentally enhanced to be an incredible fighter, hacker, and mercenary.

Sylvester Stallone who was just a normal human was able to go toe to toe with Simon and hurt him multiple times with kicks and punches.

Kirk who is a very tough and good fighter hit Khan with everything he had and only hurt his hand while Khan barely flinched.

Khan is much stronger.

Silent Master
To be fair, I believe John(Stallone) mentioned that Simon was 3x stronger than when he went in.

Couldn't find a clip that was in English, but the feat is just after the 4 minute mark.

eSVugxXzAP4

Newjak
Originally posted by Silent Master
To be fair, I believe John(Stallone) mentioned that Simon was 3x stronger than when he went in.

Couldn't find a clip that was in English, but the feat is just after the 4 minute mark.

eSVugxXzAP4 I thought Stallone was talking more about Simon's ability more than his physical strength.

I forgot about that, it also the only feat he has that even approaches that level of absurdity if I can remember correctly. The only other one I can think of is when he threw a guy threw that glass.

Also it's hard to ignore the fact that a normal human, Stallone, was able to hurt Simon in a straight up fight as well where Khan was able to tank Kirk's punches.

Silent Master
I'm not saying that Simon would necessarily win, but I'd say that Stallone's character is also a good bit stronger than Kirk. that and I believe Stallone was on the losing end of the HTH fight, it's why he ended by freezing Simon.

I'd have to dig out the movie later to confirm.

Newjak
Originally posted by Silent Master
I'm not saying that Simon would necessarily win, but I'd say that Stallone's character is also a good bit stronger than Kirk. that and I believe Stallone was on the losing end of the HTH fight, it's why he ended by freezing Simon.

I'd have to dig out the movie later to confirm. You could say Stallone is stronger than Kirk but Stallone's character wasn't superhuman either.

And yes Stallone was losing their H2H but it seemed to have more to do with Simon's all of sudden expert level Martial Arts ability more so then his strength.

Stallone was able to hurt Simon a few times, take Simon's punches and at one point managed to drive Simon back once or twice essentially overpowering him. They also fought twice, once in the museum and in the cyro lab.

I don't see a normal human doing that to Khan even a stronger than average human like Stallone.

quanchi112
JH destroys him.

Silent Master
Originally posted by Newjak
You could say Stallone is stronger than Kirk but Stallone's character wasn't superhuman either.

And yes Stallone was losing their H2H but it seemed to have more to do with Simon's all of sudden expert level Martial Arts ability more so then his strength.

Stallone was able to hurt Simon a few times, take Simon's punches and at one point managed to drive Simon back once or twice essentially overpowering him. They also fought twice, once in the museum and in the cyro lab.

I don't see a normal human doing that to Khan even a stronger than average human like Stallone.

Like I said; I'm not saying that Simon necessarily wins, I just don't see a reason to disallow Simon's strength feat, it'd be like disallowing Qzy's or Bruce Leroy's bullet catching feats, since they only happened once.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Silent Master
Like I said; I'm not saying that Simon necessarily wins, I just don't see a reason to disallow Simon's strength feat, it'd be like disallowing Qzy's or Bruce Leroy's bullet catching feats, since they only happened once. Who do you think wins ?

Newjak
Originally posted by Silent Master
Like I said; I'm not saying that Simon necessarily wins, I just don't see a reason to disallow Simon's strength feat, it'd be like disallowing Qzy's or Bruce Leroy's bullet catching feats, since they only happened once. I don't think those ar ethe same.

Bruce Leroy couldn't catch the bullet until he had THE GLOW and nothing in Ozy's showing contradict it.

And that's what I'm saying about Simon. He has the feat sure, it's obvious 90s camp action, but there is a contradictory showing where an obviously none superhuman Stallone was able to go H2H with him and even manage to push Simon backwards a few times.

You can't say Stallone did it with skill because Simon was obviously the much more skilled combatant by the time they are unfrozen.

So we have two contradictory showings and nothing else in that entire movie points to Simon being Superhuman.

Silent Master
Correction, we don't see Bruce catch a bullet until after activating the glow, but him being able to do so was mentioned in the movie theater scene.

As for Ozy, him catching the bullet is by far his best speed feat in the entire movie.

Edit: I could also mention Storm Shadow, he blocks a bullet with his sword in the recent GI Joes movie; so does that feat count or do we ignore it?

quanchi112
Silent, who wins iyo ?

Newjak
Originally posted by Silent Master
Correction, we don't see Bruce catch a bullet until after activating the glow, but him being able to do so was mentioned in the movie theater scene.

As for Ozy, him catching the bullet is by far his best speed feat in the entire movie.

Edit: I could also mention Storm Shadow, he blocks a bullet with his sword in the recent GI Joes movie; so does that feat count or do we ignore it? That's what I said he didn't catch the bullet until he had the glow.

It is his best speed feat by far but also isn't his only superhuman speed or strength feat in the entire movie. Also nothing contradicts that speed feat.

Same goes for Storm Shadow.


There is only one feat in that entire movie that shows Simon as having Superhuman strength yet a normal none superpowered human being was able to fight him H2H and even drive him back in the movie. Those are contradictions and nothing else confirms Simon as having any kind of superstrength, speed, or agility.

Also there is no mention of genetic upgrades all the list of upgrades Simon receives are mental so unless he was superhuman going in the cooler it wasn't because of his upgrades.

So despite the fact we never see anything else besides that one feat from Simon we're going to assign him close to Khan strength. even though this a contradictory scene of a normal human temporarily overpowering him and nothing showing his superstrength?

Newjak
Originally posted by quanchi112
Silent, who wins iyo ? Quan you're not helping.

Silent Master
Well,I'd put him shaking off being electrocuted by the glow rod as above human norm.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Newjak
Quan you're not helping. No, you clearly don't understand. This is his thing. Demand you prove your case while never answering simple questions. No one respects him on herochat.

Newjak
Originally posted by Silent Master
Well,I'd put him shaking off being electrocuted by the glow rod as above human norm. It was through water so it's hard to tell if he took the full force of the glow rod or not. Even then the only other time we've seen it in action is when Stallone put it directly into contact with someone's head. If he had hit the body the person may not have been knocked out. Merely stunned like what happened to Simon.

Silent Master
Originally posted by Newjak
It was through water so it's hard to tell if he took the full force of the glow rod or not. Even then the only other time we've seen it in action is when Stallone put it directly into contact with someone's head. If he had hit the body the person may not have been knocked out. Merely stunned like what happened to Simon.

I took it as them playing up his durability, as the charge was enough to actually launch him onto the car, but fair enough.

I just don't think we should be DQ'ing people's feats.

Newjak
Originally posted by Silent Master
I took it as them playing up his durability, as the charge was enough to actually launch him onto the car, but fair enough.

I just don't think we should be DQ'ing people's feats. Who said anything about DQing people's feats?

I'm not DQing it but I'm also not going to ignore the rest of his feats either especially when one comes as a direct contradiction to it.

If Simon can really one handed throw someone 20 feet a normal human being no matter strong should not be able to push him back or hurt him with his fists.

Also logically there is no way Simon can possess Superstrength unless he had it going into the frozen chamber,remember it only altered a human's mind by implanting knowledge, in which case Stallone's character shouldn't have been able to manhandle Simon before.

So it's not DQing a feat, it's looking at the whole picture.

quanchi112
Silent; who wins ?

Lestov16
I don't think SM thinks Simon wins, but he doesn't think it's the stomp everybody else is making it out to be. He'd probably give it to Khan 6.5/10. But he'd have to say himself, whenever he chooses.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Lestov16
I don't think SM thinks Simon wins, but he doesn't think it's the stomp everybody else is making it out to be. He'd probably give it to Khan 6.5/10. But he'd have to say himself, whenever he chooses. He won't answer a question. That's the point.

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