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Honestly I think this is overkill.

Plagueis was superior to Sidious prior to the PT era by his own admittance.

Plagueis takes all versions of Bane.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Plagueis takes all versions of Bane.
He will def have trouble with RoT Bane though.

I think in that figth RoT Bane would take sabers, but I'll give Plagueis Force and all-out.

Technically, Plagueis is on another level, but Orbalisks is probably an equalizer.

I would like to get some real facts on Plagueis' abilities at his peak. Clearly Sidious feared to take him on face to face, but having not yet read the novel I don't know what is revealed about him in actual combat.

Info?

Orbed Bane gives pretty much anyone a bad day. His vulnerability there is minimal to say the least. DoE is quick and skilled in sabers and arcane technique, but everything I know says that Plagueis is as well, and that even with the little known of him he is one of the greatest Sith ever.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
I would like to get some real facts on Plagueis' abilities at his peak. Clearly Sidious feared to take him on face to face, but having not yet read the novel I don't know what is revealed about him in actual combat.

Info?

Orbed Bane gives pretty much anyone a bad day. His vulnerability there is minimal to say the least. DoE is quick and skilled in sabers and arcane technique, but everything I know says that Plagueis is as well, and that even with the little known of him he is one of the greatest Sith ever.

Lol no, his vulnerability to Sith lightning is a major disadvantage.

Plagueis atomized his assailants with Force waves waaaay more potent than Bane's.

Im not so convinced that Plagueis was that great of a duelist based on novel feats.

He had a hard time in the early days against Venamis, who at best would have been mediocre.

ROT & DOE versions to stomp for me. If it was a straight force contest im sure Plagueis would hold his ground but bane with sabre in hand, unstoppable here.

Originally posted by Darth Banus
Im not so convinced that Plagueis was that great of a duelist based on novel feats.

He had a hard time in the early days against Venamis, who at best would have been mediocre.

ROT & DOE versions to stomp for me. If it was a straight force contest im sure Plagueis would hold his ground but bane with sabre in hand, unstoppable here.

Plagueis' Force speed was demonstrated to be at least on par with Sidious', if not downright superior.

In lightsaber combat, Sidious was bested only by the likes of Mace Windu and Luke Skywalker. Whose styles also strongly advocated a massive use of Force speed.

Sidious won duels in seconds with Maul, Maul straight beat Qui-Gon and an inexperienced Obi-wan before being caught by surprise by the former.

If Sidious opted to avoid a direct duel against Plagueis with all his guile that costed him his flesh against Windu, and his hand against Luke, I'd assume Plagueis wrecks Bane in the blink of an eye during a lightsaber duel.

Furthermore, Sidious also didn't play around with Yoda or Galen Marek when the time came to take care of business, like he did with Mace and Luke and everyone else he fought.

He was scared to battle Yoda just like his master Plagueis, and he did NOT duel with Galen, he went Sith Lightning right off the bat, low intensity hoping for an apprentice as opposed to a martyr, then high intensity to kill a lost cause.

Sidious sees only beings on par with him in esoteric ability as a threat, not good lightsaber duelists.

What does that say about Plagueis' command of the Force and its relevance in direct melee?

I think his superior power in the dark side would speak louder volumes than Bane's skill with a lightsaber. Although Plagueis was VERY lethal in both lightsaber combat and hand to hand.

Even in the event of multi-organ failure, Plagueis is lethal because he can stop himself from dying even when his vital organs are destroyed completely.

Plagueis was able to defeat Venamis who was trained to fight Plagueis, was trained in the forms to defeat Plagueis, knew Plagueis' style etc.

Yet Plagueis defeating him is a showing of much skill considering that Marek knew all of Vader's styles yet Vader couldn't defeat him.

The Sidious that you all refer to is post Plagueis , remembering that after Sidious killed his master he instantaneously went up a in force power, in the same way Plagueis did after destroying his master.
So pre the rise im sure Sidious would have been very cautious to engage his master and rightly so! But after maybe not so much? Although as per battle with yoda he did try and avoid direct battle in 50/50 conflicts.

In his matches vs mace yoda luke galen etc we are talking about a MUCH more powerful Sidious which I am sure also equates to a much faster Sidious. By that logic I think it would be fair to say that Plagueis never stood in front off the Sidious we have all come to know and love.

To me in this fight Plagueis is a wise and skilful Dooku, Bane is a raw and powerful Annie.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Plagueis was able to defeat Venamis who was trained to fight Plagueis, was trained in the forms to defeat Plagueis, knew Plagueis' style etc.

Yet Plagueis defeating him is a showing of much skill considering that Marek knew all of Vader's styles yet Vader couldn't defeat him.



Tenebrous didnt train Venamis specifically in techniques to defeat plagueis, he trained him to be a sith, not a "plagueis assassin" he thought Plagueis was unworthy & was looking for a replacement.
tenebrous would have just killed Plagueis himself if that's what he wanted.

Originally posted by Darth Banus
Tenebrous didnt train Venamis specifically in techniques to defeat plagueis, he trained him to be a sith, not a "plagueis assassin" he thought Plagueis was unworthy & was looking for a replacement.
tenebrous would have just killed Plagueis himself if that's what he wanted.

No?

Worse for Plagueis, Tenebrous had made Venamis an expert in Plagueis's style, and so the Bith could not only anticipate but counter Plagueis's every move.

If Plagueis/Sidious are weaker than Bane, then Bane failed in his one true goal.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
No?

Worse for Plagueis, Tenebrous had made Venamis an expert in Plagueis's style, and so the Bith could not only anticipate but counter Plagueis's every move.


Yea, all that confirms is he taught him the same style?

I really think your missing the point of the Sith here. Tenebrous thought Plagueis was to weak to carry the mantle, so he trained Ven on the side, with Vens final trail being a confrontation with Plag. Had he succeeded he would have proved himself worthy. It would be counter productive to his goals to simply create a 1 hit wonder.

so i say no, Venamis had to prove himself worthy to be #2

Originally posted by pencilcrayon
If Plagueis/Sidious are weaker than Bane, then Bane failed in his one true goal.

I think it is pretty well canon that Sids sits at the top of the Sith tree. so for a time, yes goal complete.

If you are hinting at the logic that since Sids become all powerful his master must have been ? then who the hell was Yoda's master "N'Kata Del Gormo" ? and were does he sit on the list of all time great Jedi??

Not every proceeding Sith lord to Bane was stronger than the previous, just the really strong ones got to old & weak, dropped there guard at the wrong time or in banes case, got taken out by some next level force spell that could possibly have dropped all the major players; light or Dark.

For the record i do consider Plagueis to be a great sith lord, just more of a book worm. all caged up in his study for the later years, trying to crack immortality. I cant be bothered to look for it but i am sure there is a quote or 2 in the last 3rd of his book about him not keeping up with his sword play. Bane trained day and night for combat. He lived for it.