Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/77/150220-62517-he-man.jpg
vs.
http://www.4news.it/images/stories/games/sony/god-of-war-3-kratos.jpg

1. They get all their equipment ever. Strength/Speed is equalized.

2. They get all their equipment ever. Natural strength and speed.

3. Standard equipment for both(assume GoW3 Kratos). Strength/Speed is equalized.

4. Standard equipment for both(again GoW3 Kratos). Natural strength and speed.



I like He-Man, but I don't know much about him. Trying to learn more by gauging him against a character I know very well.

He-Man at his best overpowers Pre-Crisis Superman.

When was this? Superman knocked him down in an exchange.

Besides that, yeah, I know He-Man's upper end strength is far above Kratos', but at the same time, He-Man's durability doesn't seem to be anywhere near as good as his strength.

With the items, weaps and abilities Kratos should win all the equalized fights, not seeing personal skill being a large factor giving He-Man a chance.

Now if the strength/durability thing is correct then speed and reactions will be important. Not sure what He-Mans bringing, but even with any reaction feat given t oKratos', he's not a speed blitzing character. Whoever strikes the first heavy blow wins :T



Curious to see what He-Man is capable of.

No help on He-Man's abilities?

Heman moved moons and lifted mountains. He even broke through his universe's version of adamantium.

None of that is helpful. That's just stuff regurgitated from Death Battle. His strength is already known.

Need some durability and reflex/speed feats .

Durability maybe, doesn't need speed feats though.

Someone (not me) has to go back and rewatch the old cartoon. But not me.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Durability maybe, doesn't need speed feats though.

He does need speed feats.

Being a 'speed blitzing' character, what do you even mean in practical terms there? When you have true speed, its not yourself that you see as fast, but other things that you see as going slow.

If He-Man is fast enough to react, then he's fast enough to react. If he's not fast enough to react to a blow, that's the same as being blitzed.

Unless you're saying Kratos would willingly hold back against an armed opponent--which is not in his character to do so. He'll simply strike at the speed he deems to be appropriate--which is invariably a non-holding back one.

Originally posted by NemeBro
He-Man at his best overpowers Pre-Crisis Superman. JESUS FREAKING CHRIST! REALLY?

Im going with he- man But im being Super biased

Originally posted by CosmicComet
He does need speed feats.

Being a 'speed blitzing' character, what do you even mean in practical terms there? When you have true speed, its not yourself that you see as fast, but other things that you see as going slow.

If He-Man is fast enough to react, then he's fast enough to react. If he's not fast enough to react to a blow, that's the same as being blitzed.

Unless you're saying Kratos would willingly hold back against an armed opponent--which is not in his character to do so. He'll simply strike at the speed he deems to be appropriate--which is invariably a non-holding back one.
Offensivly speaking He man only needs to tag Kratos to win, assuming his strengh is of whats been said. Kratos couldnt block and wouldnt have the easiest time evading.

Defensivly, perhaps. Though iirc the speed argument for Kratos was reactions only, and if so does he/would he break out these levels of speed when faced against a non speedster? He's akways used the same rank of speed besides those reaction feats.

^There is no such thing as a reaction only speed, in normal non-specific magic related terms.

It makes no sense, and its something I came to the conclusion of not too long ago.

How the heck can someone, for example, be stated to be a lightning timer or some such, yet can't even frigging run faster than peak human speed? Such is commonly stated for characters like Link. Even worse, how can characters like Thanos be claimed as having FTL reflexes yet their actual running speed would be something Captain America could deal with?

Do these guys magically have arms that move thousands to millions of times faster than their legs? How ludicrous an idea is that? So that has to mean that in a time dilation event for say Link, where lightning time is considered normal time for him, his arms would move at normal speed while his legs would seem to be frozen dead in place? So such a character's legs are assumed to be useless in a fight, or such a character perceives their own running speed to be so slow as to seem like they aren't moving at all. Yet we know that is not the case.

I acknowledged the same thing for Kratos as well, as to not be a hypocrite, but as of Ascension I've less reason to do so, as he has two outright speed feats there (one including fighting under time dilation), whereas he had few concrete speed feats before that game.

About the only thing I'll acknowledge for a 'reaction only' speed level are bullet timers. Cloud can bullet time, yet the guy apparently runs slow enough to need a motorcycle. The only reason I'm ok with that is because its too common a trope to outright ignore.

Its fine for everyone besides bullet timers because its a trope?

Wouldn't the amount of times we see characters reacting speeds we know they can't physically replicate govern a 'trope' protection as well?

Especially when characters like Kratos and Link have never shown any physical speed feats that even come close.. hell these two have shown nothing but peak-low superhuman movement/attack speed. (Besides the two things that may have gone down in Ascension, of course)

Bullet Timing Reaction speed + immensely slower running speed is far more common. Far more.

Bullet Timing is an actual trope thanks to the Matrix.

No, guys like Thor, and Thanos, cannot be given a reaction speed millions of times greater than their actual speed. We just have to realize that these are just fan based assumptions, and never explicitly told to us. These guys were never intended to be speedsters, and fans of theirs know that, but they want a taste of the pie even if they are never offered it, and thus try to use the inane 'reaction speed' card to give them solace. At the very least, KMC's Comic Vs. more or less understands that. Few people there will laud Thor or Thanos' speed, as these are guys whom peak humans regularly contend with speed wise.

And how is that different from any other reactions + immensely slower running speed?


..Isnt putting any kind of numbers on characters fan based only? And the Thor/Thanos point raises more questions as Kratos and Link would be just like them; having reaction feats far above their speed and not intending to be speedsters. Not really sure where you've gone with that.

What do you mean how is it different? Compared to what?

Anything above the bullet timing level where your supposed reaction time feats are orders upon orders of magnitude greater than any shown running speed is bullshit.

That goes for Link (who has no confirmed lightning timing anyway), Thor, Thanos, and anyone else that fits. Truth be told, I can't even think of any concrete reaction feats for Thor that would imply lightspeed+ anyway. The best way to judge someone's speed is by how they do in practical uses of it. In which Thor's case he has a concretely stated punching speed of a microsecond, and one time he built a small tower from scratch by hand, in maybe a minute. Both are very old feats however.

The only other time I would even allow it is if the author blatantly states someone 'reacts at X speed but moves at Y speed' (in which Y speed is immensely slower). I'd call the author an idiot, to be sure, but at least it would'nt simply be a fan assumption anymore that the relationship is thus.

Having reactions over 34x your movement speed is a great magnitude already.. and its accepted just like that because it happens a lot?

Must behaving a bad-read day.. what exactly is your verdict on those 3? Are you saying they'd have lightning/FTL overall speed or that their reactions don't mean much.

Where does the 34 times thing come from? That's far more reasonable than any difference I'm talking about here.

And I am saying the latter, that their supposed reaction levels mean little to nothing, because they don't have the speed to make those reaction levels feasible.

GuyRunny with supersonic reactions, 10m/s to 340m/s.


Yeah thats what thought you were saying.. in which case.. are you saying the same for Kratos and his reactions?

Meh. No matter what happens, if Kratos dies he is just going to come back for more. It's what he does. Death has no hold on him at all, having escaped the Underworld 3 times, minimum. Not to mention that in the GoW world, Hades is the God of Death (it would seem, or you would have fought the real one). He technically killed Death.

Originally posted by BloodRain
GuyRunny with supersonic reactions, 10m/s to 340m/s.


Yeah thats what thought you were saying.. in which case.. are you saying the same for Kratos and his reactions?

Like I said before, I was including Kratos within that group.

But since Ascension I do not any longer.

..hold up, so until Ascension you disregarded Kratos' supposed lightning feats?


Well I checked the respect page, and no feat jumped out at me as being lightning speed.

Lightning timing itself is not the focus. It's just an example. Kratos has other supposed reaction feats where they can be inferred to be a lot greater than his prior movement speed.

In Ascension however, Kratos goes through a time slow focused on him by the Uroboros Amulet, and even then he is still more than fast enough to fight Pollux and Castor. We're given a frame for how potent the time slow is when Kratos uses the amulet to slow incoming giant tentacles (moving anywhere from 100-300 meters per/sec by a rough guesstimate) to a crawl or perhaps stopped altogether. That's fighting through a clearly potent time dilation on Kratos' part, and is good practical speed feat.

Whether its a lightning timing level or not is not really my concern (it easily could be depending on the exact percentage of slow down that happened when Kratos used it), but the point is more towards that it shows that Kratos has very good speed (well above peak human), and thus the reaction feats that get attributed to him are now a lot more believable.


And yes, before Ascension I denounced the lightning timing altogether. I don't remember exact threads but surely there was at least one thread in Games Vs where I did so, and another thread in Comic Vs.

Assuming that the dilation feat makes him Mach 5 (E.g), what does that mean for a lightning reaction feat? Does this mean its acceptable or that those other non-lightning hypersonic feats become legit?


Lol, now why didn't I bump a Kratos Vs Dante thread when you did that? :P

Originally posted by CosmicComet
^
How the heck can someone, for example, be stated to be a lightning timer or some such, yet can't even frigging run faster than peak human speed? Such is commonly stated for characters like Link. Even worse, how can characters like Thanos be claimed as having FTL reflexes yet their actual running speed would be something Captain America could deal with?

Do these guys magically have arms that move thousands to millions of times faster than their legs?

Going back to this, if real life experience has taught me anything, it's that closing a defensive gap is not the same as covering a traveling distance. Evading requires a quick thought process as well. physical capability is not the main, or even primary factor. Just thought I'd throw this out there. But anyways, has anyone else noticed how this is somehow no longer about the battle?!

Originally posted by Sacred 117
Going back to this, if real life experience has taught me anything, it's that closing a defensive gap is not the same as covering a traveling distance. Evading requires a quick thought process as well. physical capability is not the main, or even primary factor. Just thought I'd throw this out there. But anyways, has anyone else noticed how this is somehow no longer about the battle?!

I'm not sure I quite understand what the point of this post was or what it is meant to be addressing--or rather what you think you're addressing. Read what I was talking about again.

Reflexes are half based on how fast you physically move and how fast your mind perceives a stimulus.

Your reflexes and physical speed are thus closely tied. You cannot react fast without being fast on some level. At any rate, your reflexes e.g. say your punching speed, will never be immensely greater than your running speed. At best, you might be able to punch twice as fast as you can run. But you can take a step forward in the same time it takes you to throw said punch.

Well its not much to go on but I need to bring this up. He-Mans durability HAS to increase with his strength. Maybe only by allowed minimum but it has to. In order for his body to withstand the strain of any of his physical feats his durability has to increase enough to withstand it. While its not an on panel feat it still should have some consideration.

Anyways #2 would probably be spite for He-Man given the Gem of Anwat Gar. The one that grants absolute invincibility. Unless Kratos figures out how to deactivate the Gem.

I've argued for the strength feats as durability feats in the past as well for He-Man, that's the realistic thing to do by implications, but it could also be argued that the Magic of Greyskull is able to guard him in some way while he's doing those feats.

Kinda like how the Speed force protects the Flash family while they are running fast, since technically their low durability should mean that their skin is flayed off from the sheer speed.

He-Man's explicit durability feats seem to be kinda underwhelming for what you'd expect for his strength class.

Anyway, what level of durability did the Gem of Anwat Gar provide? I mean by feats that is.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
I've argued for the strength feats as durability feats in the past as well for He-Man, that's the realistic thing to do by implications, but it could also be argued that the Magic of Greyskull is able to guard him in some way while he's doing those feats.

Kinda like how the Speed force protects the Flash family while they are running fast, since technically their low durability should mean that their skin is flayed off from the sheer speed.

He-Man's explicit durability feats seem to be kinda underwhelming for what you'd expect for his strength class.

Anyway, what level of durability did the Gem of Anwat Gar provide? I mean by feats that is.

I also thought of it that way and it's likely thats possible but it has never been stated. Of course neither has it been stated on the flip either. So they are both only speculation but imo it should be considered.

There were two Stones....Skeletor had one and He-man had one. Once activated neither one of them could be hurt and they both gave it their all. He-Man resorted to out smarting Skeletor because he realized fighting was pointless but He-Man kicked Skeletor across the battlefield, They both were jumping a good 100-200 feet into the air, Skeletor knocked He-Man down through the planet and into lava which had no affect on He-Man at all, Skeletor threw a statues head the size of the top of a mountain with extreme ease. He-Man tanked a blast from Sekletor that had an exploding DBZ style to it, and they didn't even manage to slow one another down. At the end He-Man decided they were way too powerful for anyone to posses so he destroyed the stones. The fighting had a DBZ feel to it the way they were knocking eachother around.

Also They are called the Legacy Stones. Anwat Gar was the place they were at.