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Battle of the enhanced humans.

1) Who is stronger
2) HTH only
3) They both get one of the alien energy rifles from Avengers.

Cap
Cap
Kahn (I'm assuming no shield)

Read this as Khan vs Mr Rogers..

Originally posted by Odekahn
Cap
Cap
Kahn (I'm assuming no shield)

Why does Khan win number 3?

-Rogers
-Rogers
-Could go either way. Favoring Rogers for the majority as he has more shown combat experience since he was in WW2.

Edit: Forgot Roger's got hit in the side with a Chitauri rifle and he was still alive and capable. Roger's takes the 3rd match also.

Originally posted by Robtard
-Rogers
-Rogers
-Could go either way. Favoring Rogers for the majority as he has more shown combat experience since he was in WW2.

Edit: Forgot Roger's got hit in the side with a Chitauri rifle and he was still alive and capable. Roger's takes the 3rd match also.

Exactly, I figured the laser rifle fight was Khan's best chance of winning, though Cap has shown the ability to tank at least one blast.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Read this as Khan vs Mr Rogers..

new thread then?


http://www.wiredforbooks.org/images/FredRogers4.jpg

Originally posted by Silent Master
Exactly, I figured the laser rifle fight was Khan's best chance of winning, though Cap has shown the ability to tank at least one blast.

But it laid him out. Don't see him recovering in time for the next shot.

Anyway, Cap takes the first two. Khan takes the last.

Originally posted by ares834
But it laid him out. Don't see him recovering in time for the next shot.

Anyway, Cap takes the first two. Khan takes the last.

It knocked him down yes, but he wasn't ko'd or killed, which means that Khan would have to hit him at least twice....whereas Cap only has to hit Khan once.

Khan leaves Mr. Rogers' neighborhood a loser

Even though it knocked him down, he got up rather quickly and seemed to only be moderately inconvenienced since he finished the rest of the fight with no problem, and didn't even show pain when they were eating shawarma at the end.

Khan in all three.

Originally posted by KingD19
Even though it knocked him down, he got up rather quickly and seemed to only be moderately inconvenienced since he finished the rest of the fight with no problem, and didn't even show pain when they were eating shawarma at the end.

Then we can safely conclude that shawarma is the same as a healing potion.

Originally posted by KingD19
Even though it knocked him down, he got up rather quickly and seemed to only be moderately inconvenienced since he finished the rest of the fight with no problem, and didn't even show pain when they were eating shawarma at the end.

Didn't he have Thor help him up?

Either way, I can't see him managing to do anything if he gets hit before Khan hits him again. And, considering how talented Khan seems to be as a gunman, Cap will likely be hit first.

Okay, drop everything for a second. Quan just said Khan in all three.

Now I think this is among other things, concrete proof of some form of mental deficiency. How can anyone who saw Captain America and The Avengers think Khan can take Captain America in strength and h2h?

Originally posted by KingD19
Okay, drop everything for a second. Quan just said Khan in all three.

Now I think this is among other things, concrete proof of some form of mental deficiency. How can anyone who saw Captain America and The Avengers think Khan can take Captain America in strength and h2h? Have you still not seen Into Darkness yet ? It's pretty obvious, dude.

Originally posted by ares834
Didn't he have Thor help him up?

Either way, I can't see him managing to do anything if he gets hit before Khan hits him again. And, considering how talented Khan seems to be as a gunman, Cap will likely be hit first.

It's not like Cap was so crippled by the blast that he couldn't have gotten up by himself, Thor just offered him a hand up and Cap took it.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Have you still not seen Into Darkness yet ? It's pretty obvious, dude.

Cap threw a man over 20 feet vertically with one hand while treading water.

He got to that man by punching through pressure proof canopy of a mini-sub.

He easily held up atleast 1200lbs considering the weight of that specific brand of motorcycle and assuming the women he held were only 100lbs each.

Knocked men dozen's of feet with punches and kicks.

Had excellent aim and sense of environmental awareness as he sniped a hidden gunner with his shield.

Took down Chitauri aliens in hand to hand. The same aliens that gripped into buildings after falling hundreds of feet and crushed cars into dough just by landing on them.

Etc etc...

No way Khan wins 1 and 2. 3 is his best bet, and even then I'd consider it more even than any huge favor for Khan. Especially since Cap has former experience with the rifles.

Originally posted by KingD19
Cap threw a man over 20 feet vertically with one hand while treading water.

He got to that man by punching through pressure proof canopy of a mini-sub.

He easily held up atleast 1200lbs considering the weight of that specific brand of motorcycle and assuming the women he held were only 100lbs each.

Knocked men dozen's of feet with punches and kicks.

Had excellent aim and sense of environmental awareness as he sniped a hidden gunner with his shield.

Took down Chitauri aliens in hand to hand. The same aliens that gripped into buildings after falling hundreds of feet and crushed cars into dough just by landing on them.

Etc etc...

No way Khan wins 1 and 2. 3 is his best bet, and even then I'd consider it more even than any huge favor for Khan. Especially since Cap has former experience with the rifles. Did you see the movie ?


Dodged my question. Khan was easily knocking people,back and breaking skulls with his are hands.

The aliens weren't impressive in the least. All,the avengers were smoking them with relative ease.

Khan crushes him.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Why does Khan win number 3?

I just think Kahn has the edge in shooting. His accuracy seemed better, and he's much more intelligent. I don't think it would be a quick fight, and that would give Kahn long enough to figure out a way to beat cap. Intelligence > Might.

Originally posted by Odekahn
I just think Kahn has the edge in shooting. His accuracy seemed better, and he's much more intelligent. I don't think it would be a quick fight, and that would give Kahn long enough to figure out a way to beat cap. Intelligence > Might.

I wasn't aware that Cap ever missed and as this is a gun fight I really don't see how Khan being smarter is going to help.

Originally posted by Silent Master
I wasn't aware that Cap ever missed and as this is a gun fight I really don't see how Khan being smarter is going to help.

He never did learn to mind his surroundings...

He seemed to mind them well enough to spot and take out a hidden sniper.

why not just call him captain america

Originally posted by KingD19
How can anyone who saw Captain America and The Avengers think Khan can take Captain America in strength and h2h?

Although I agree that Cap is stronger, I actually believe that Khan is a better h2h fighter. You have to remember that Cap didn't exactly have extensive fight training, or at least if he did then it was for a very brief period of time.

Khan on the other hand seems to have grown up as a fighter, trained both mentally and physically. We also have to consider that Khan is a lot more brutal, and wouldn't hesitate to break Cap's bones and play dirty.

So....

1. Strength - Cap
2. H2H - Khan
3. Guns - could go either way, depends I guess on who hits first, but I'm leaning a bit towards Khan here. Khan has the bigger gun, but then it showed he could get knocked out by a small gun. Still, that big gun of his was destroying everything it hit and he was standing in the middle of dozens of Klingons without getting hit. Cap had trouble in a firefight with a single guy on the hellicarrier.

Originally posted by Supra
why not just call him captain america

Why does it matter?

Originally posted by FrothByte
Although I agree that Cap is stronger, I actually believe that Khan is a better h2h fighter. You have to remember that Cap didn't exactly have extensive fight training, or at least if he did then it was for a very brief period of time.

Khan on the other hand seems to have grown up as a fighter, trained both mentally and physically. We also have to consider that Khan is a lot more brutal, and wouldn't hesitate to break Cap's bones and play dirty.

So....

1. Strength - Cap
2. H2H - Khan
3. Guns - could go either way, depends I guess on who hits first, but I'm leaning a bit towards Khan here. Khan has the bigger gun, but then it showed he could get knocked out by a small gun. Still, that big gun of his was destroying everything it hit and he was standing in the middle of dozens of Klingons without getting hit. Cap had trouble in a firefight with a single guy on the hellicarrier.

Cap took hits from guys that dented steel and Loki without having any bones broken.

Also, I gave them both the energy rifles from Avengers, so I'm not sure where you got the idea that Khan's rifle was more powerful.

Originally posted by Silent Master
He seemed to mind them well enough to spot and take out a hidden sniper.

I know cap is an excellent fighter and strategist, I just meant that intelligence > uncontrolled passion is a lesson learned from batman begins.

Kahn is more intelligent than cap is. That's going to make a huge difference.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Cap took hits from guys that dented steel and Loki without having any bones broken.

Also, I gave them both the energy rifles from Avengers, so I'm not sure where you got the idea that Khan's rifle was more powerful.

Oh sorry, I missed that part about the guns. In any case, Khan still wins in a gun fight. Like I said, he was standing in the open against a dozen or so Klingons and wasn't getting hit. Cap had trouble with one soldier in the hellicarrier.

Good point about Cap taking hits from Loki. Guess Khan won't be breaking his bones then. Still believe Khan's the better h2h fighter though. Cap didn't exactly get extensive h2h training whereas Khan seems to have been raised as a fighter, both mentally and physically.

Originally posted by Odekahn
I know cap is an excellent fighter and strategist, I just meant that intelligence > uncontrolled passion is a lesson learned from batman begins.

Kahn is more intelligent than cap is. That's going to make a huge difference.

Not in a gun fight.

Also, as far as being brutal goes, in the scene where Cap is giving orders to the cops, he cuts off the arm of one of the attacking aliens.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Why does it matter?

Just wondering

Originally posted by FrothByte
Oh sorry, I missed that part about the guns. In any case, Khan still wins in a gun fight. Like I said, he was standing in the open against a dozen or so Klingons and wasn't getting hit. Cap had trouble with one soldier in the hellicarrier.

Good point about Cap taking hits from Loki. Guess Khan won't be breaking his bones then. Still believe Khan's the better h2h fighter though. Cap didn't exactly get extensive h2h training whereas Khan seems to have been raised as a fighter, both mentally and physically.

Him not being hit while standing in the open is proof that the Klingon's have bad aim, not that he's untouchable.

We saw Cap take on and beat groups of people/aliens several times, does Khan have any feats of beating groups of people in HTH?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Him not being hit while standing in the open is proof that the Klingon's have bad aim, not that he's untouchable.

We saw Cap take on and beat groups of people/aliens several times, does Khan have any feats of beating groups of people in HTH?

Whether you blame the Klingon's aim or attribute it to Khan's skill in evasive maneuvers in a firefight, it's still a far better feat than any gun fighting feat that Cap has. Unless you can cite an example where Cap was outnumbered, out in the open, no shield to hide behind, and still exterminated his enemies. Lets face it, Cap's main weapon is a shield. Khan's main weapon is a gun. If it was a melee fight with melee weapons I'd give the advantage to Cap. A gun fight, and I give the advantage to Khan. Besides, the Chitauri and Hydra soldiers had just as bad (if not worse) aim than the Klingons.

As for fighting multiple opponents, again Khan beat up a bunch of klingons in h2h, klingons who are a lot stronger than humans. Cap beat up humans in hydra gear and chitauri, and basing from how easily Hawkeye and BW were taking out chitauri I don't believe they're really that much stronger than humans.

Khan also took on a skilled opponent (Spock) who has about 3x the strength of a human. Khan beat the sh!t out of Spock. The only skilled opponents Cap took on was Red Skull - whom he barely defeated, and Loki - whom he lost against.

Khan just has better feats for h2h and gun fights. Cap has better strength feats. Then again, Khan did overpower Klingons and a Vulcan, so that gives us a pretty good strength feat. And he allowed Kirk to pummel him as much as he wanted and he didn't even flinch. Yeah, Cap's not beating him in a fight.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Not in a gun fight.


Being smarter is an advantage in anything including a gun fight. Kahn will eventually lure Cap in a Trap (that should be the next movie title).

Originally posted by Odekahn
Being smarter is an advantage in anything including a gun fight. Kahn will eventually lure Cap in a Trap (that should be the next movie title).

Trap the Cap. Ban the Khan.

Except Khan's HTH feats aren't better, neither the Klingon's or Spock have any impressive HTH feats so they are in the same boat as Hydra and the aliens. Not that it matters as Cap has a rather large durability advantage. that combined with his strength advantage means he'd win a HTh fight.

As for guns, both of them have shown the ability to hit their targets, however Cap is durable enough that it'll take more than one shot. so Khan can win, but he's got no margin for error.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Except Khan's HTH feats aren't better, neither the Klingon's or Spock have any impressive HTH feats so they are in the same boat as Hydra and the aliens. Not that it matters as Cap has a rather large durability advantage. that combined with his strength advantage means he'd win a HTh fight.

As for guns, both of them have shown the ability to hit their targets, however Cap is durable enough that it'll take more than one shot. so Khan can win, but he's got no margin for error.

I can agree with that.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Except Khan's HTH feats aren't better, neither the Klingon's or Spock have any impressive HTH feats so they are in the same boat as Hydra and the aliens. Not that it matters as Cap has a rather large durability advantage. that combined with his strength advantage means he'd win a HTh fight.

As for guns, both of them have shown the ability to hit their targets, however Cap is durable enough that it'll take more than one shot. so Khan can win, but he's got no margin for error.

I'm sorry, but how exactly are Khan's h2h feats not better? Vulcans are about 3x stronger than humans and Klingons are even stronger than Vulcans. So taking on multiple Klingons IS a better feat than taking on multiple hydra (humans) or chitauri (as strong as humans). Vulcans are also trained in their ancient martial arts. Spock was a known h2h expert. How is beating up Spock not a good h2h feat? What exactly has Cap done that makes you think he has better feats than this? Cap beat up a bunch of Hydra and Chitauri, both weaker than Klingons and Vulcans. Cap barely beat Red Skull and he lost to Loki.

As for guns, the guy who gets the first hit wins. Cap can maybe survive getting hit once but he's going to get knocked down by that shot and will take time to get up (no Thor to help him out this time). Khan can then just keep shooting him till he's dead. It will boil down to who hits who first, and in this case, Khan has proven himself to be harder to hit. If you disagree, please give me an instance where Cap has shown to be harder to hit WITHOUT a shield.

What feats of strength and durability did NuSpock or those Klingons have?

Originally posted by Silent Master
What feats of strength and durability did NuSpock or those Klingons have?

So you're planning to completely disregard everything that has been proven in previous Star Trek movies? When talking in the movie vs. forum, I'm assuming that all movies of a particular character are taken into account as long as they're in the same continuity. In this case, the feats of Spock and Klingons from other Star Trek movies count.

And before you redirect me with another question, how bout you first provide proof or at least a reason why you believe that a.) Cap is a superior fighter and b.) Cap being a better gunslinger.

Originally posted by FrothByte
So you're planning to completely disregard everything that has been proven in previous Star Trek movies? When talking in the movie vs. forum, I'm assuming that all movies of a particular character are taken into account as long as they're in the same continuity. In this case, the feats of Spock and Klingons from other Star Trek movies count.

And before you redirect me with another question, how bout you first provide proof or at least a reason why you believe that a.) Cap is a superior fighter and b.) Cap being a better gunslinger.

If you can provide strength and durability feats for the people Khan fault, I'll be more than happy to accept them.

Originally posted by Silent Master
If you can provide strength and durability feats for the people Khan fault, I'll be more than happy to accept them.

This goes both ways dude. You still need to provide proof why you think Cap's h2h feats are better than Khan's. As for strength for klingons and vulcans, anyone familiar with the Star Trek universe will tell you that both are stronger than humans. I'll have to go review the older movies to come up with specific feats, so I'll get back to you on that. In the meantime, I'm still waiting for your proof why you think Cap has better h2h and gunfighting skills.

As long as the feats are for the specific people Khan fought, after all Klingon and Vulcan strength would vary person to person.

Originally posted by Silent Master
As long as the feats are for the specific people Khan fought, after all Klingon and Vulcan strength would vary person to person.

Still waiting for you to state why you believe Cap is better than h2h or gun fighting though. You keep demanding proof while you yourself don't give any.

Klingons vary in individual strength in the same way that bears vary in individual strength. Still your average bear is stronger than any human. Same with a Klingon, your average Klingon is stronger than almost any (non-enhanced) human.

Originally posted by FrothByte

Klingons vary in individual strength in the same way that bears vary in individual strength. Still your average bear is stronger than any human. Same with a Klingon, your average Klingon is stronger than almost any (non-enhanced) human.


Not really, humans have beat the crap out of Klingons in h2h many times, from Riker to Sisko and heck even Kira!

What I would agree to though is that a particularly strong Klingon will be stronger than any non-enhanced human, like Worf or the Klingon Christopher Lloyd played in Star Trek 3.

Cap wins the 1st two easily. The 3rd one im leaning toward Cap as well but Khan might take it