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Khan, any and all versions vs. Worf: any and all versions.

"Onscreen feats, only" of course. No Trek books.

This is Worf and Khan at their best and most healthy.

CIS won't be a problem because both are ruthless warriors that will kill for victory without the slightest hesitation.



They fight in 2 arenas:


1. Holodeck room on the Enterprise D. No holodeck program is active: just the black and yellow room with standard lights.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-GxAnoEQ6OyA/TbsiU0V6L_I/AAAAAAAAAKk/Uds5KIw10aQ/s1600/holodeck.jpg



2. A "full" cargo bay on the Enterprise D, as shown in this image:
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120810032238/memoryalpha/en/images/1/1d/Galaxy_cargobay.jpg

In both scenarios, Worf and Khan get a Bat'leth and a D'k tahg (the Klingon knife). In both scenarios, the genius, Khan, gets 30 minutes to review techniques and handle the blade so he is prepared for Worf's skills with that Klingon sword.

In the second scenario, the industrial transportor is ACTIVE and can be used to BFR or kill the opponent.






Who wins and why?


Some may ask why I made the thread here rather than in the Trek sub-forum: because the Trek subforum is for more important and mature discussions regarding Trek and it is slower, there.

Before anyone brings it up, Khan is not much stronger than Worf, if at all. Klingons are generally 2-3 times stronger than humans and Worf is among the strongest Klingons. That puts him around Khan's strength: either a bit above or a bit below.

Well in First Contact Worf was giving the Borg some serious beat downs.

So I say Worf wins. Just to annoy Quanchi

Originally posted by dadudemon
Khan, any and all versions vs. Worf: any and all versions.
"Onscreen feats, only" of course. No Trek books.
This is Worf and Khan at their best and most healthy.
CIS won't be a problem because both are ruthless warriors that will kill for victory without the slightest hesitation.

They fight in 2 arenas:

1. Holodeck room on the Enterprise D. No holodeck program is active: just the black and yellow room with standard lights.

2. A "full" cargo bay on the Enterprise D, as shown in this image:

In both scenarios, Worf and Khan get a Bat'leth and a D'k tahg (the Klingon knife). In both scenarios, the genius, Khan, gets 30 minutes to review techniques and handle the blade so he is prepared for Worf's skills with that Klingon sword.

In the second scenario, the industrial transportor is ACTIVE and can be used to BFR or kill the opponent.Gut impression, with what I'm remembering as I'm typing...

1. Worf wins...probably. Khan may get good with the weapons in 30 minutes. But Worf has had years and years, if not practically his whole lifetime learning to be deadly with them. But if Khan is faster...(see below).

2. Undecided / Khan. I never got the impression Klingons were particularly fond of "infantry" stealth tactics. They're pretty much, "Here I am, fight me" in their close-quarters approach. Khan, OTOH, I think is, and in the cargo bay, there's lots of stuff to hide behind, to throw and/or distract with (basically cat-n-mouse, with Khan leading Worf on into an opportune moment). Khan keeps a cooler head than Worf; Khan could use that to throw off Worf's focus (this could happen in scenario 1, too, now that I think of it). Khan especially wins if he is stronger ("I have 5x your physical strength." -- MontalKhan, for what it's worth); and faster (offhand, I don't recall Klingons being faster than humans).


Originally posted by dadudemon
Some may ask why I made the thread here rather than in the Trek sub-forum: because the Trek subforum is for more important and mature discussions regarding Trek and it is slower, there. Some may; I shan't.

Worf's clearly stronger than any human, but I honestly don't think he's even as strong as Spock.

As for the Klingons being twice as strong as humans in general? I don't buy it. They've been knocked down/out too often by humans in h2h.

From my experience of Star Trek, Klingons are just a little stronger than humans.
They're just more aggressive.

Khan dies

Worf is a far better warrior than Khan .. He is also a better tactician .. even if Khan somehow shoots Worf that will not stop him from using a Bat'leth or his fave weapon the mek'leth from killing him

Close fight, imo.

When Worf was captured by the Jem'Hadar, he was made to fight everyday for many days and consistently beat down or outright killed every Jem'Hadar he faced except for the last one, which was a veteran, but Worf went into that last fight exhausted and with several injuries (broken ribs was one) from his previous fights.

Should be noted that Jem'Hadar are breed for battle and tough as nails, as a phaser set to stun has absolutely no effect on them.

Khan's physically stronger though, his x5 human-norm is likely higher even higher in Into Darkness, since he can crush skulls.

Perhaps today IS a good day (for Khan) to die (again)....

Khan.

This isn't a stomp though. Worf is a tougher opponent than the no-name, no-face fodder Klingons Khan beat up. I'd argue Worf does about as well as Spock did. And I have doubts that Khan could crush Worf's skull while Worf is still alive. Klingon skulls are much sturdier than human skulls. When Worf was a child he killed a human kid when their heads collided during a soccer match--he wasn't even trying to hurt him and he didn't notice the collision until after the kid was dead.

Khan phucks his shit up.

Him stopping a Borg was a skill feat not a strength feat because worf was one shotted trying to grab a Borg

Worf wins.

Side note, I always thought about grating Cheese on his forehead... Not sure I'd eat it but still want to do it.

H2H, I'd give it to Khan, but with weapons that Worf has spent countless hours in the holodeck honing and has several battles under his belt. I think he takes the lion's share.

While Khan is stronger, Worf is far more skilled with the weapons being used.

It would be like giving a NFL linebacker a sword and asking him to fight somone that's trained in Kendo for 20 years.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Perhaps today IS a good day (for Khan) to die (again)....

hahahahahaha.. good one

I would like to note that the warrior caste (little known fact: Klingons were once a caste system and that system is still "alive" when Trek rolls around, but it is just moderately adhered to) are significantly stronger than the rest of Klingons. Those are usually the ones seen in any military actions/campaigns. Those are the warriors. Worf comes from this group. Worf is among the strongest if not the strongest of the Klingons because he, time and time again, showed he was a better warrior against their best.


Here are a list of strength and battle feats from Worf:

1. Besting the cloned Kahless (who would obviously have a natural genetic predisposition towards being the ultimate warrior as he united the Klingon warriors and proved himself, over and over, in battle, as the best Klingon warrior of his time) who was trained to be an indisputable warrior. This same Kahless defeated a challenger earlier in this 2-part episode but Worf pwned him.

2. He picked up a man, with one arm, with his arm extended, by that man's throat or that man's shirt. Can't remember which. But that's well beyond what any human, no matter how strong, is capable of doing.

3. As Robtard pointed out, he fought against a genetically engineered group of warriors and bested them all until his injuries and lack of decent food and water caught up with him. The Jem'Hadar, even as adolescents, were more than a match for even a well-experienced Starfleet security team. It was stated that the Jem'Hadar have multiple times the strength of humans. Worf dominated dozens of them over the course of 3 days until the best of their group, their First (title of the leader/alpha male of a platoon), fought a badly injured Worf. Worf's fights lasted hours, each, because the second day, he only fought and killed 2. Worf has massive endurance as he fought, literally, all day. Keep in mind, he's still besting them by the end of the second day with little food and water once he gets back to his cell. He also has broken ribs and other injuries (concussion). So he is at least stronger than some of the fiercest Jem'Hadar warriors as these Jem'Hadar are assigned to a Dominion prison.

A weakened Worf is stronger and has more indurance than some of the strongest Jem'Hadar.

Worf>Jem'Hadar>>>humans. This is based on onscreen evidence: no extrapolation required.

4. Worf bested Gowron, the Klingon Chancellor, in ritual combat. Before anyone dismisses this, Gowron maintained his position as Chancellor bey defeating many challengers, in ritual combat (to Picard's disgust), to the death. Gowron is a fierce Klingon warrior and among the best if he was able to defend his position during the tumultuous times that almost lead to Klingon civil war.

So it should be clear that Worf is not the typical Klingon. He's not just barely stronger than a human, as many other Klingons clearly are. He's stronger and more skilled than any Klingon we have seen: even a cloned Kahless. He's stronger and more skilled than the Jem'Hadar who are multiple times the strength of humans. The estimate on this website says that 1 in 625 males (age 17-59) regularly weight train to the point of being able to hit a 300lbs bench press. The rest, the majority will bench between 130-160 lbs at their peak. You know what that means? The superhuman, Khan, is only 2x as strong as I am. Worf is definitely definitely definitely stronger than I am. I find his picking up a man with one arm, fully extended, to be a better strength feat than anything Khan did...mostly because with double my strength, I still could not do that. I might be able to do it with two arms, but not one (with double my current strength).

So much for Khan's superhuman strength being a deciding factor in this fight, eh?

Originally posted by golem370
Him stopping a Borg was a skill feat not a strength feat because worf was one shotted trying to grab a Borg

It was strength. He knocked them down(physically) using his rifle. (First Contsct). A human security officer tried doing the same thing but it had no effect.(Also First Contact). Later in FC he easily chop up a borg with his Bathleh.

He was one shotted when he attacked a Borg unarmed.(Best of Both Worlds).

Conclusion- He needs a weapon to take Borg h2h. But it still takes above human strength to take them down even with a weapon. Remember Borg are stronger than Vulcans, as confirmed when Tuvok had to tackle Seven in Voyager once.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Conclusion- He needs a weapon to take Borg h2h. But it still takes above human strength to take them down even with a weapon. Remember Borg are stronger than Vulcans, as confirmed when Tuvok had to tackle Seven in Voyager once.

They are strong enough to put Data's life in danger.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I would like to note that the warrior caste (little known fact: Klingons were once a caste system and that system is still "alive" when Trek rolls around, but it is just moderately adhered to) are significantly stronger than the rest of Klingons. Those are usually the ones seen in any military actions/campaigns. Those are the warriors. Worf comes from this group. Worf is among the strongest if not the strongest of the Klingons because he, time and time again, showed he was a better warrior against their best.


Here are a list of strength and battle feats from Worf:

1. Besting the cloned Kahless (who would obviously have a natural genetic predisposition towards being the ultimate warrior as he united the Klingon warriors and proved himself, over and over, in battle, as the best Klingon warrior of his time) who was trained to be an indisputable warrior. This same Kahless defeated a challenger earlier in this 2-part episode but Worf pwned him.

2. He picked up a man, with one arm, with his arm extended, by that man's throat or that man's shirt. Can't remember which. But that's well beyond what any human, no matter how strong, is capable of doing.

3. As Robtard pointed out, he fought against a genetically engineered group of warriors and bested them all until his injuries and lack of decent food and water caught up with him. The Jem'Hadar, even as adolescents, were more than a match for even a well-experienced Starfleet security team. It was stated that the Jem'Hadar have multiple times the strength of humans. Worf dominated dozens of them over the course of 3 days until the best of their group, their First (title of the leader/alpha male of a platoon), fought a badly injured Worf. Worf's fights lasted hours, each, because the second day, he only fought and killed 2. Worf has massive endurance as he fought, literally, all day. Keep in mind, he's still besting them by the end of the second day with little food and water once he gets back to his cell. He also has broken ribs and other injuries (concussion). So he is at least stronger than some of the fiercest Jem'Hadar warriors as these Jem'Hadar are assigned to a Dominion prison.

A weakened Worf is stronger and has more indurance than some of the strongest Jem'Hadar.

Worf>Jem'Hadar>>>humans. This is based on onscreen evidence: no extrapolation required.

4. Worf bested Gowron, the Klingon Chancellor, in ritual combat. Before anyone dismisses this, Gowron maintained his position as Chancellor bey defeating many challengers, in ritual combat (to Picard's disgust), to the death. Gowron is a fierce Klingon warrior and among the best if he was able to defend his position during the tumultuous times that almost lead to Klingon civil war.

So it should be clear that Worf is not the typical Klingon. He's not just barely stronger than a human, as many other Klingons clearly are. He's stronger and more skilled than any Klingon we have seen: even a cloned Kahless. He's stronger and more skilled than the Jem'Hadar who are multiple times the strength of humans. The estimate on this website says that 1 in 625 males (age 17-59) regularly weight train to the point of being able to hit a 300lbs bench press. The rest, the majority will bench between 130-160 lbs at their peak. You know what that means? The superhuman, Khan, is only 2x as strong as I am. Worf is definitely definitely definitely stronger than I am. I find his picking up a man with one arm, fully extended, to be a better strength feat than anything Khan did...mostly because with double my strength, I still could not do that. I might be able to do it with two arms, but not one (with double my current strength).

So much for Khan's superhuman strength being a deciding factor in this fight, eh?


simply put Worf is the man..

Khan wins.

Picard was handing it to Klingons in TNG.

The Augments trashed Klingons in Enterprise.

Originally posted by Badabing
Khan wins.

Picard was handing it to Klingons in TNG.


Picard also handled nausicaans.

Kirk, a human, also handled Khan.

Originally posted by Badabing
The Augments trashed Klingons in Enterprise.

Dumb Klingons that do not even come close to Worf.

Originally posted by Badabing

The Augments trashed Klingons in Enterprise.

As DDM pointed out, Worf isn't your average Klingon and those Augments weren't garden variety Augments, Arik Soong (an uber genius) had further modified them while they were embryos.

Originally posted by Robtard
...Arik Soong (an uber genius) had further modified them while they were embryos.

Forgot about that. And he was still trying to modify them even further to eliminate the violent ambition thing.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Picard also handled nausicaans.

Kirk, a human, also handled Khan.



Dumb Klingons that do not even come close to Worf. Originally posted by Robtard
As DDM pointed out, Worf isn't your average Klingon and those Augments weren't garden variety Augments, Arik Soong (an uber genius) had further modified them while they were embryos. I didn't read every post and was going from memory.

I remember Picard was on a covert mission and he was tossing around a few Klingons. He was in "street" clothes and it was at night. I can't remember the episode.

Okay. I couldn't remember if they were amped or not. Do you remember how much they were amped?

Me picking Khan is not a knock against Worf. It's just my opinion that Khan has better feats of strength, skills and speed. I honestly don't see Worf giving Khan too much trouble. Granted, my memories of Khan's feats are much more vivid than Worf's due to how long it's been since I've seen TNG.

Originally posted by Badabing
I didn't read every post and was going from memory.

I remember Picard was on a covert mission and he was tossing around a few Klingons. He was in "street" clothes and it was at night. I can't remember the episode.

Okay. I couldn't remember if they were amped or not. Do you remember how much they were amped?

Me picking Khan is not a knock against Worf. It's just my opinion that Khan has better feats of strength, skills and speed. I honestly don't see Worf giving Khan too much trouble. Granted, my memories of Khan's feats are much more vivid than Worf's due to how long it's been since I've seen TNG.

Humans like Picard and Kirk routinely defeat enemies much stronger and more skilled than themselves. They are just that badass.

However, as shown, regular humans << regular klingons.

Don't forget that Kirk was able to go toe-to-toe with Khan. His superior strength and skill is not enough against powerhouses like those two. So using Picard or Kirk and co as examples of why Klingon's suck is not a good idea: it just shows how awesome Picard and Kirk are because they could most likely put up a fight against Khan, as well.


And the best strength feat between the two of them goes to Worf with his picking up the man with one arm.

Jem/hadar got beat by Sisko if i remember. Worf sometime goes animalistic

as Worf is killing Khan, kirk comes in to yell...

wRnSnfiUI54

Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
as Worf is killing Khan, kirk comes in to yell...

wRnSnfiUI54

hahahaha


The "evil gasm" comment at the very very end was the best part. holy balls...I laughed till my throat hurt.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Forgot about that. And he was still trying to modify them even further to eliminate the violent ambition thing.

He was a sissy liberal, yes.

Originally posted by Badabing


Okay. I couldn't remember if they were amped or not. Do you remember how much they were amped?

It never got into specifics, just that the embryos had been further modified with 22nd century genetic science, compared to their 20th century base.

Those 3 eps the the other two Klingon linked ones were some of the better Enterprise eps, imo.

EDIT. Oh well.

Originally posted by dadudemon
hahahaha


The "evil gasm" comment at the very very end was the best part. holy balls...I laughed till my throat hurt.

yep

Wolf is much weaker than Kahn. His consistent battles with humans prove this. Plus Kahn is much more skilled too.

Kahn is not more skilled no proof of that if anything Kahn fights like a psychopathy with superior strength and speed. Lets also not forget Worf taking those pain sticks to the ribs.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
It was strength. He knocked them down(physically) using his rifle. (First Contsct). A human security officer tried doing the same thing but it had no effect.(Also First Contact). Later in FC he easily chop up a borg with his Bathleh.

I2TJTHnvaiw
starts from 1:12

bump

Khan definitely wins now.

Not saying who wins, just thought this belonged here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LnwLn9vnKo

Kahn should be significantly stronger and more durable than Worf.
Humans have significantly affected Worf and took his blows without being koed. Kirk gave Khan everything and it didn't affect Khan in the slightest.

Still believe Khan would win more in a H2H fight due to his superior Augment strength and durability.

But weapons, Worf is taking the lion's share.

BTW, why was this bumped again?

Ricardo Montoban ****s Worf right up. Stranhe Khan goes down hard.

Worf definitely can't beat Khan in h2h combat. Worf can take a beating and keep on going, as Rob pointed out, but his physical strength doesn't compare to Khan's. And he's not as quick either.

Even with weapons, Khan is strong enough to kick a dude so hard he flies a good 10-15 feet away. If Khan ever gets a chance to grab his weapon why couldn't he just rip it out of his hands?

I give CumberKhan both wins.

Worf (by feats) is stronger than your average Klingon who are typically x2 human strength for a human of similar size/build.

Khan's still stronger though. He's at least x5 human strength.

Khan stomps Worf.

Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
Khan dies

Worf is a far better warrior than Khan .. He is also a better tactician .. even if Khan somehow shoots Worf that will not stop him from using a Bat'leth or his fave weapon the mek'leth from killing him


this still I believe

So you're not taking into account how the OP says and and all versions of characters? That means Nu-Trek Khan is included and his feats out him far beyond Worf.

Originally posted by Robtard
BTW, why was this bumped again?

I'll never let you know.