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Team 2.

Team 2. Starkiller's the weak link.

Team 1. Starkiller destroys Dooku.

lol

Originally posted by Nephthys
Team 1. Starkiller destroys Dooku.

Team 2. Sidious is the high-link.

Why would't Starkiller beat Dooku? He beat Vader.

Both of his fights against Vader were circumstancial, and even then, Vader was not at his prime until RotJ.

Even if one assumes Starkiller (somehow) is an equal to Dooku, Sidious still solos.

I'm assuming its RotS Sidious.... In which case, no way in hell does he solo.

How does he solo against a man whose already defeated him once plus mothafvckin Starkiller?

Starkiller was ''ultimately no match''. Mace can most likely be ragdolled.

ROTS Sidious would kill both. Only reason why Mace beat him was because Sidious was holding back his LS skills, did not use Force powers, threw the fight, Shatterpoint, and Vapaad. As for Vader, his prime was ROTJ? Just thought he was always on a consistent level. and Galen in the 1st game did own by by himself, 2nd game yeah Vader was holding back and had a hole in his suit and Galen's force lighting was amp'd by Kamino's storms and the power generators.

My god...

Are you gonna offer an actual counterargument?

A rebuttal isn't even needed. No way in hell is Sidious taking down two "Jedi" of power comparable to his own at the same time. Hell, we even saw him lose to one on his own. While the other left him howling and pain and Sidious only won that battle when Starkiller decided to kamikaze some Stormies trying to kill his friends....

Sidious vs. Galen is an obvious outcome. Galen's most powerful attack didn't even singe his robes, while at the same time the lighting Sidious was using wasn't at full power. I think Sidious would probably kill Galen on the get go, leaving Mace alone with Dooku and Sidious, and he dies from that encounter. Sidious wasn't howling in pain, unless you mean the gameplay mechanics of the fight. Sidious in the comic straight up laughed his ass off when Galen hit him with a huge force lightning attack.

Originally posted by ares834
of power comparable to his own

Originally posted by The Merchant
Sidious vs. Galen is an obvious outcome. Galen's most powerful attack didn't even singe his robes, while at the same time the lighting Sidious was using wasn't at full power. I think Sidious would probably kill Galen on the get go, leaving Mace alone with Dooku and Sidious, and he dies from that encounter. Sidious wasn't howling in pain, unless you mean the gameplay mechanics of the fight. Sidious in the comic straight up laughed his ass off when Galen hit him with a huge force lightning attack.

Yes, that same attack that also failed to kill Vader... Despite the fact that Vader is inferior to Starkiller. So clearly, surviving Starkiller's attack doesn't instantly make one superior. BTW, Sidious's robe is smoking after his encounter at least in the comic.

"The Sith lightning spread to engulf the two of them, fueled by both their desperations. The Emperor tipped back his head and howled in lascivious pain."

Oh look, Sidious howling in pain. And even more surprising his attack was fueled by his desperation. Huh.

With all this said I believe Sidous will beat Starkiller, but it won't be easy. And there is no ****ing way he is going to solo Starkiller and Windu.

Not sure the exact details about the second fight between Vader and Starkiller, all I know is that Starkiller adopted a defensive style which gave him an advantage. That quote, was it during the final moments of Starkiller before he blew up? If so, Sidious still shrugged most of he damage that outright killed Starkiller. And it was Starkiller using all of his power as well. And Windu was explained that Sidious threw the fight. Even so, Dooku is still in this, and he would beat Windu since Windu himself admitted Dooku can beat him.

Yes, it was during their lightning struggle right before. Regardless, Sidious was in "pain" and was "desperate". And while he did shrug of SK's attack, once again, so to did Vader. That alone does not make them superior.

As for Mace/Dooku, while Dooku may be Mace's superior without Vaapad, with Vaapad, Windu was able to match Sidious putting him ahead of Dooku. While I do tend to think Sidious threw the fight, in shear bladework Mace did beat Sidious as confirmed by Lucas himself stating that Windu "overpowered" Sidious.

http://i41.tinypic.com/96cg1d.jpg

Without hesitation, he stepped between Kota and the Emperor, taking the full brunt of the Sith lightning into his own body.

The pain was incredible, searing every nerve back to its individual cells, skewering each of them on white-hot needles. He had never before felt anything like this. He wanted to recoil from the source, to curl into a ball and let unconsciousness take the pain away, but somehow he stayed standing, seeing the world through a crackling blue light, and even took a step toward the Emperor.

Another staggering, painful step and the Emperor was within the apprentice's reach. With shaking fingers, he took the old man's bony shoulders in his hands and gripped them tight. The Sith lightning spread to engulf the two of them, fueled by both their desperations. The Emperor tipped back his head and howled in lascivious pain. Darkness threatened to envelop the apprentice's mind, but he clutched to consciousness with feverish will. He had to see this through. He had to.

"No!" the apprentice cried, dropping his defenses to strike one last time at the Imperials. Energy surged through him. He felt as though a star had blazed to life in his chest. Driven by concern for his friends rather than himself, he embraced the Force completely, utterly, and was rewarded with strength that made his efforts with the dark side look like those of a child. His nerves were on fire. Streamers of light radiated from his skin. His bones glowed like radiant lava.

The apprentice felt himself leaving his body again. Or was his body leaving him this time? He felt ripped apart by the energy that had flowed through him. Every cell was in shock; every fiber shook. The fire on his face possessed no heat at all. His limbs felt as distant as the farthest arms of the galaxy. He was amazed there was enough left of him to think at all.

Darth Vader struggled to his feet from the rubble, even more damaged than before. He reached out for support and found only his Master, scowling.

As for Mace, well, Sidious utterly ragdolled Maul and Opress. What has Mace done that puts him above Maul in terms of force powers? Pushed a AT-TE? Maul pulled an Eta-class shuttle. Crushed a tank with a door? Maul has collapsed cave ceilings. Destroyed droids with his force wave? Maul has ragdolled Kenobi.

Cool... Not sure what the point of all that was, but yeah thanks for posting the fight.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
As for Mace, well, Sidious utterly ragdolled Maul and Opress. What has Mace done that puts him above Maul in terms of force powers? Pushed a AT-TE? Maul pulled an Eta-class shuttle. Crushed a tank with a door? Maul has collapsed a cave ceilings. Destroyed droids with his force wave? Maul has ragdolled Kenobi.

Lucas saying Palpatine used "his powers to try and destroy Mace".

Also, this.

Look at the picture.

What, that Starkiller was no match... Yeah, where have I ever said that he, alone, would defeat Sidious?

Originally posted by ares834
Lucas saying Palpatine used "his powers to try and destroy Mace".
With his lightning, yeah. And he would have, had he continued.

Originally posted by ares834
Also, this.
His feats on Dantooine are largely inconsistent with his average showings. I'm not gonna take this into account.
Originally posted by ares834
What, that Starkiller was no match... Yeah, where have I ever said that he, alone, would defeat Sidious?
I never claimed that you did, but Starkiller will be defeated easily by Sidious.

No he won't. Sidious already failed to overpower Starkiller. And the novel confirms that he was desperate. That Starkiller didn't kill him with his final blast proves nothing. He was likely Force-exhausted at that point. As ares astutely pointed out, Vader wasn't damaged by the final blast either and we know that he's below Starkiller.

Sidious would still win, but hardly easily. And Mace would kicking his butt.

The fight goes Mace beats Sidious, Starkiller beats Dooku.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
With his lightning, yeah. And he would have, had he continued.

"Powers". In other words, Sidious used more than just lightning.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
His feats on Dantooine are largely inconsistent with his average showings. I'm not gonna take this into account.



Anyway, I always felt that Sidious casually rag-dolling Maul and Opress was fairly inconsistent as well.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
I never claimed that you did, but Starkiller will be defeated easily by Sidious.

Easily. Hmm. Despite the fact that in his previous fight against SK (who, BTW, had just defeated Vader and fought through the DS) had him howling in pain and desperate. Oh, and this is all happened when SK, apparently, "did not fight back".

Originally posted by ares834
"Powers". In other words, Sidious used more than just lightning.


I believe in the novel he attacks Mace with a Force Push which Mace blocks.

Originally posted by ares834
"Powers". In other words, Sidious used more than just lightning.

He didn't.

Okay, well, this sequence always started out with Mace overpowering Palpatine, and then Palpatine using his powers to try to destroy Mace, and Mace deflecting his rays with his lightsaber.

It's fairly obvious from the movie and the part ''his rays'' that he used lightning.

Originally posted by ares834


Anyway, I always felt that Sidious casually rag-dolling Maul and Opress was fairly inconsistent as well.
Why? Sidious, at this point, had already surpassed Plagueis. Plagueis could atomize armored assassins, lift ceilings from caves the size of cathedrals, knock people off the ground etc.

Besides, TCW isn't known for exaggerating powers.

Originally posted by ares834
Easily. Hmm. Despite the fact that in his previous fight against SK (who, BTW, had just defeated Vader and fought through the DS) had him howling in pain and desperate. Oh, and this is all happened when SK, apparently, "did not fight back".
Re-read it.

Energy surged through him. He felt as though a star had blazed to life in his chest. Driven by concern for his friends rather than himself, he embraced the Force completely, utterly, and was rewarded with strength that made his efforts with the dark side look like those of a child. His nerves were on fire. Streamers of light radiated from his skin. His bones glowed like radiant lava.

Starkiller, with more strength than ever, wasn't a match for Sidious.

Also, in-game, doesn't Starkiller note that ''it's a trick'' or something?

Starkiller obliterates Dooku, Windu uses Vaapad to overcome Sidious. Worse case he holds him off long enough for it to become Starkiller and Windu vs Sdious and then it's really over.

The debate has been said for almost a decade now and I've yet to see any shred of proof that Sidious threw the fight.

Originally posted by Based
The debate has been said for almost a decade now and I've yet to see any shred of proof that Sidious threw the fight.

Aside from the fact that George Lucas said that Sidious pretended to be weak. The same moment where the novel explicitly says that Mace was about to eat saber. Yeah. Sidious>Mace.

As for this fight.

Why is everyone assuming it'll be Mace vs. Sidious and Dooku vs. Starkiller

Dooku vs. Mace will take centuries and it makes the most sense considering they've sparred before.

And as for Sidious vs. Starkiller...well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNIU-9X5Eso

Direct yourselves to 2:50. While non-canon, I believe this is an accurate depiction of how a serious Sidious vs. Starkiller would go.

Starkiller vs. Dooku...would likely end in the counts demise, but not before Sidious makes Mace eat his lightsaber.

Its the logical choice. Starkiller knows he can't beat Sidious and Mace knows he and Dooku are about equal. Plus it makes sense for Mace to go after the strongest darksider due to Vapaad.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
And as for Sidious vs. Starkiller...well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNIU-9X5Eso

Direct yourselves to 2:50. While non-canon, I believe this is an accurate depiction of how a serious Sidious vs. Starkiller would go.

Why would you believe that? SK has some insane feats and in his canon battle against Sidious, Sidious didn't casually defeat him.

Not sure why people give Starkiller the win over Dooku. Feat-wise, he blows Dooku out of the water (insane force barriers, disintegration of half a frigate), but he has never shown such power in combat. In reality, he should have been able to completely ragdoll all of his opponents, but such has never happened.

Dooku is a scholar, more experienced and refined, and a much, much better duelist. He takes Starkiller, definitely.

He ragdolled the second Jedi master in the novels.

Who is that? Paratus?

Yeah, as soon as he actually gets to him he basically pwns him easily.

He does, but Paratus was literally crying at that point.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Aside from the fact that George Lucas said that Sidious pretended to be weak.
You mean the blatantly obvious acting by Sidious to deceive Anakin? And then proceeded by Sidious throwing lightning showing that he wasn't in fact weak? Yes that's obvious. Unless Lucas explicitly said that Sidious was pretending to be weak during the fight then this is irrelevant.

And there's of course this somewhat famous quote regarding this, "one would have to be either Windu or Yoda to compete with Palpatine."



A quote would be nice.



Again irrelevant. Yes Sidious would beat Mace a majority of times, the point was if Sidious threw the fight. He is not so far above Mace that he can control the outcome of a battle. There's no evidence that Sidious did not take the fight seriously in order to sway Anakin. That being the case, Sidious wouldn't have speed blitzed the first three masters he faced..

Originally posted by Nephthys
Its the logical choice. Starkiller knows he can't beat Sidious and Mace knows he and Dooku are about equal. Plus it makes sense for Mace to go after the strongest darksider due to Vapaad.

The logical choice for his team.
Sidious knows he can beat Starkiller and that his apprentice is equal to Mace. So why the hell would the side with the most powerful combatant choose to fight an opponent more likely to defeat him.

Sith may be battle hungry but they aren't idiots. And considering Sidious and Dooku are both far more intelligent than Starkiller and about as smart as Mace, it'd be child's play to goad Starkiller into attacking Sidious rather than Dooku.

The man who manipulated his entire life. vs. some old man he's never seen before. Hmmm.

Except that both of team 1 are powerful enough to force the matter and switch targets. If Starkiller started hitting Dooku he'd be extremely hard pressed to hold out until Sidious bailed him out. Whereas Windu and Starkiller can weather both of team 1's attacks and switch places. Dooku being the weak link is the deciding factor in this fight.

Except that at the end of the first book Marek achieved inner peace, shrugged off Vaders goading and Sidious' mental suggestions. He isn't as dupe anymore.

The man he knows he can't beat vs a guy who he can sense is less powerful than himself.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Except that both of team 1 are powerful enough to force the matter and switch targets. If Starkiller started hitting Dooku he'd be extremely hard pressed to hold out until Sidious bailed him out. Whereas Windu and Starkiller can weather both of team 1's attacks and switch places. Dooku being the weak link is the deciding factor in this fight.

Except for the fact that Dooku is not the weak link he is equal to Mace. Dooku and Sidious are apprentice and Master and are like to have far better teamwork than Windu and Starkiller.



Just because he isn't a dupe does not mean he's a Dooku or Sidious.



First of all. Dooku and Sidious have force sense as well. If Starkiller is able to demolish Dooku as you suggest why the nuts would Sidious say.

"Go my apprentice and get shitstomped against someone I can defeat with moderate strain, while I fight someone who you know the ins and outs of their technique and who you have sparred with evenly for decades"

Sidious knows Starkiller very well ala Vader's reports, and Dooku knows Mace very well. It makes no sense to assume that Sidious the fastest combatant wouldn't go for a Starkiller blitz immediately while Dooku holds off Mace.

Also given what we've seen of 2 v 2 duels in the mythos it isn't as simple as one person fights one opponent and one fights the other. There's a ton of interweaving and cross combatting. Something Sidious and Dooku will excel in and Mace and Starkiller will not be as successful.

Unless I'm wrong, Sidious was feeling pain from his own lightning, not because of the force explosion Galen caused. That obviously would hurt him, it's basically a similar case with Windu vs. Sidious's Lightning, all Galen did was reflect it back. And Vader vs. Galen in their 2nd fight was, now I'm not so sure of this, but I heard was because Sidious was amp'ing Galen through the darkside. In the beginning thanks to the new techniques he learned Galen adopted a defensive stance against Vader, Vader started over-powering him through the force, Galen used the darkside which was being empowered through Sidious, and Vader himself was not interested in fighting Galen because of that. If it was like their first fight, Galen would have died. PROXY was the reason why he survived in the first place. Without Sidious, Galen would last longer, but Vader would ultimately kill him.

Originally posted by Intrepid37

Even if one assumes Starkiller (somehow) is an equal to Dooku, Sidious still solos.

Well if you think Sidious solos against Mace and Starkiller together, then it's no wonder you think he wasn't fighting Maul and Opress properly.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda



Mace>Sidious (sabers)
Sidious>Mace (Force)
Sidious>Mace (all out)



Actually I'd say Mace and Sidious were pretty even in Sabers. Just because Mace won that time, doesn't mean he'd take a majority.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Well if you think Sidious solos against Mace and Starkiller together, then it's no wonder you think he wasn't fighting Maul and Opress properly.
Okay?

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Okay?

If you missed the point, it's that No Sidious certainly doesn't Solo Galen and Mace together. But if you really think he does then I can understand why you would think that he Must Have been holding back during his fight against the Maul brothers.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
If you missed the point, it's that No Sidious certainly doesn't Solo Galen and Mace together. But if you really think he does then I can understand why you would think that he Must Have been holding back during his fight against the Maul brothers.
Why can't Sidious solo Starkiller and Mace?

Because both of them can give him a good fight, and in the case of Mace outright defeat him. Together they beat him.

Eh. You actually think Mace would defeat Sidious again? Really? And Starkiller give Sidious a good fight despite being no match for him in the end?

Starkiller/Mace are leagues above the Maul/Opress duo, and while Team 2 wins this--Sidious couldn't do it alone.

Leagues above? Not really. One league, yes, but remember how casually the brothers got tooled by Sidious. A team one league above them is definitely within Sidious' range.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Eh. You actually think Mace would defeat Sidious again? Really? And Starkiller give Sidious a good fight despite being no match for him in the end? Of course Mace could defeat Sidious again, he beat him fair and square the first time, it's only common sense.

Originally posted by NTJack0
Of course Mace could defeat Sidious again, he beat him fair and square the first time, it's only common sense.
Mace won in sabers but would lose in force. And I believe fair and square does not include bringing three Jedi masters as backup even if they were blitzed.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Obviously a canon instance of a fight between the two with a winner is kind of heavy evidence one way.





The rest of your post is as substantive as vapor. The two dueled as peers and the only observable and consistent difference between the two is in the domain of Force mastery, where Sidious enjoys a tremendous advantage.

http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-jerkbag.gif

Only difference other than that one of them won and the other lost amiright?

There is a world of difference between an instance and a trend. The two fought at parity. And the only observable consistent difference between the two is in Force mastery, an advantage that Sidious enjoys.

Do you need to read it a fourth time?

I dunno, do you think posting it a fourth time will make it any less wrong/not meaningless bullshite? Kinda like how believing in something super hard enough can make it a little less fake.

Like your brain for instance. You dumb**** cumgaper.

You could always explain how it's "wrong" or "meaningless bullshite" rather than just say it is but then you wouldn't be you.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER

Actually I'd say Mace and Sidious were pretty even in Sabers. Just because Mace won that time, doesn't mean he'd take a majority.

I was being generous my friend.

Anakin was keeping up with Dooku just fine, and Dooku's been described as being equals with Mace before. Had Palpatine not been the Supreme Chancellor, each fight in sabers should lean towards Palpatine all the time. Anakin could see Mace from time to time, but Palpatine was a complete blur for him, and this was when Mace had that one time boost to his abilities.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Leagues above? Not really. One league, yes, but remember how casually the brothers got tooled by Sidious. A team one league above them is definitely within Sidious' range.

Well, while the battle was circumstantial--I don't need you to remind me of that--We HAVE seen the likes of Obi-Wan Kenobi take on the Maul Brothers alone and even broke Savage's leg and cut off his arm.

And in ROTS, we saw that Kenobi himself was unquestionably outmatched against Count Dooku--Who has been several times referenced as an equal to Mace Windu--This is not to say Mace Windu would also unquestionably do the same, but is it not extremely probable? If you consider Windu's power as more or less an equal to Dooku's, he's hardly only " a league " above the likes of Savage Opress, (Though maybe Darth Maul) as on the topic that was posted about a month ago, a majority of posters here deduced that Dooku would be able to solo the Maul Brothers himself. To further put this into Windu's advantage, through Vaapad he would be capable of dramatically boosting his power in a confrontation against Sidious.

Then on the other hand, we have Galen Marek, who was supposed to be more or less a perfect equal to Darth Vader. And Darth Vader has already been confirmed to only be 20% less than the Emperor himself, and we've seen in The Force Unleashed that Starkiller can already compete with the Dark Master, even if he is ultimately not a match alone. Another factor is that we don't even know how powerful Palpatine was when Galen fought him. We know that between ROTS and Dark Empire Sidious had grown substantially in power--Meaning it's also probable that Galen fought a greater incarnation of Sidious than ROTS.

In the end we have two combatants for Palpatine to face off against--One a master of the lightsaber, the other a Skywalker-Level Force User that has feats that hint at him being one of the greatest Force Lightning practitioners in the mythos. (Vaporizing people, anyone?) and while Palps can casually overpower the likes of Darth Maul and Savage Opress, this is a different match entirely, and while I'd honestly say Sidious is in the same playing field as this duo, he'd ultimately fall little match, being bombarded by Mace's saber assault like we saw in ROTS, while simultaniously being demolished by Galen's Force Powers? Sidious is good, but he's not invincible.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Well, while the battle was circumstantial--I don't need you to remind me of that--We HAVE seen the likes of Obi-Wan Kenobi take on the Maul Brothers alone and even broke Savage's leg and cut off his arm.
If you know it was circumstancial, why do you bring it up?

Originally posted by NewGuy01
And in ROTS, we saw that Kenobi himself was unquestionably outmatched against Count Dooku--Who has been several times referenced as an equal to Mace Windu--This is not to say Mace Windu would also unquestionably do the same, but is it not extremely probable?
Not really. Mace doesn't use choke and isn't as powerful in the force as Dooku.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
If you consider Windu's power as more or less an equal to Dooku's, he's hardly only " a league " above the likes of Savage Opress, (Though maybe Darth Maul)
Mace might be one or two leagues above Opress in swordplay, but in terms of force powers? Opress has essentially done the same stuff Mace has.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
as on the topic that was posted about a month ago, a majority of posters here deduced that Dooku would be able to solo the Maul Brothers himself.
That's pretty dumb.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Then on the other hand, we have Galen Marek, who was supposed to be more or less a perfect equal to Darth Vader. And Darth Vader has already been confirmed to only be 20% less than the Emperor himself,
Again, Vader in his prime was supposed to be only 20% less than Sidious; as of TFU, Vader's prime was long gone. He was losing to a ressurected Darth Maul only little before TFU.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
and we've seen in The Force Unleashed that Starkiller can already compete with the Dark Master, even if he is ultimately not a match alone.
He can't.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Another factor is that we don't even know how powerful Palpatine was when Galen fought him. We know that between ROTS and Dark Empire Sidious had grown substantially in power--Meaning it's also probable that Galen fought a greater incarnation of Sidious than ROTS.
This is true, but we don't know how much Sidious improved.

I think, based on Rise of Darth Vader, it's fair to assume that Sidious' swordmastery got downgraded over time.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
In the end we have two combatants for Palpatine to face off against--One a master of the lightsaber, the other a Skywalker-Level Force User that has feats that hint at him being one of the greatest Force Lightning practitioners in the mythos. (Vaporizing people, anyone?) and while Palps can casually overpower the likes of Darth Maul and Savage Opress, this is a different match entirely, and while I'd honestly say Sidious is in the same playing field as this duo, he'd ultimately fall little match, being bombarded by Mace's saber assault like we saw in ROTS, while simultaniously being demolished by Galen's Force Powers? Sidious is good, but he's not invincible.
Again, I fail to see what Mace has done that puts him above the brothers' combined effort in terms of telekinesis, and Sidious handled the brothers with ease.

As for Starkiller, he had trouble with Shaak Ti, Paratus and Rahm Kota. He doesn't have a chance, in my opinion.

Even if Windu is merely a league above Maul and Savage, this ignores that he can use Vapaad as a superconducting loop to boost himself up to Sidious' level.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
You could always explain how it's "wrong" or "meaningless bullshite" rather than just say it is but then you wouldn't be you.

Perhaps I would of if you'd stopped being a wussy little baby and outright said that you think Sidious wins instead of merely implied it like a coward. estahuh

What, is it not logical to conclude that the guy who won the fight..... would win again? What do you suggest we do, simply ignore the fact that Windu has beaten Sidious when discussing who would win in a fight between the two? Yes, that sure does make sense.

And your whole 'there's a world of difference between an instance and a trend' is meaningless peacocking. Why is there a huge difference between the two? Simply stating that doesn't mean anything unless you support it with evidence to the contrary and an argument against why Windu could replicate his win.

Finally your point about Sidious' Force advantage is stupid, and ignores that due to Vapaad Windu can weather Sidious' Force attacks. Kind of like how he actually did in the actual fight between the two that we can use to see how an actual fight between the two would actually go. Because it actually already happened. :I

Originally posted by Nephthys
Even if Windu is merely a league above Maul and Savage, this ignores that he can use Vapaad as a superconducting loop to boost himself up to Sidious' level.
This ignores that Mace never fought Sidious as an equal... he was being forced back the entire time.

Originally posted by Nephthys
What, is it not logical to conclude that the guy who won the fight..... would win again?
Because of the circumstances?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Finally your point about Sidious' Force advantage is stupid, and ignores that due to Vapaad Windu can weather Sidious' Force attacks. Kind of like how he actually did in the actual fight between the two that we can use to see how an actual fight between the two would actually go. Because it actually already happened. :I

Nah.

Jedi Master MACE WINDU and the Sith Lord fight their way down the hallway and into the main office area. PALPATINE is able to use the Force to slam MACE against the wall, but he recovers before the Chancellor can cut him down.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
This ignores that Mace never fought Sidious as an equal... he was being forced back the entire time.

And this ignores the novel which explicitly states that they were fighting as equals.


Originally posted by Intrepid37
Nah.

Jedi Master MACE WINDU and the Sith Lord fight their way down the hallway and into the main office area. PALPATINE is able to use the Force to slam MACE against the wall, but he recovers before the Chancellor can cut him down.

Thanks for posting an example of Sidious' Force Mastery not being able to decisively turn the fight to his favor.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And this ignores the novel which explicitly states that they were fighting as equals.
They had reached an impasse... after 20 seconds... for that matter, I can depict Dooku's duel with Yoda on Geonosis as an impasse... because neither could overpower the other in the spam of 30 seconds...

Originally posted by Nephthys
Thanks for posting an example of Sidious' Force Mastery not being able to decisively turn the fight to his favor.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
They had reached an impasse... after 20 seconds... for that matter, I can depict Dooku's duel with Yoda on Geonosis as an impasse...

These two situations are completely different and you know it. Not a abd reach but it's still a reach.

...in the span of 30 seconds...

Originally posted by Based
These two situations are completely different and you know it.
They really aren't.

I haven't seen episode three is a long time but remind me the part where one of the combatants ran away. Or remind me in episode two when either Yoda or Dooku got disarmed like Palpatine did against Mace.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
They had reached an impasse... after 20 seconds... for that matter, I can depict Dooku's duel with Yoda on Geonosis as an impasse... because neither could overpower the other in the spam of 30 seconds...


Not really sure what your point is here. The novels states that they were at an impasse because they were equal, even stating that the fight 'might have gone on forever.' So.... are you agreeing with me?

Cuz you could have just conceeded. Jeez.....

FFS. Guys, did I say "GALEN MAREK" or "STARKILLER", Galen Marek's clone, who should be described already more powerful than the original, as I think he is equal or even above the Dark Apprentice.

I don't support the claim that the uncanon defeat of the Apprentice at Sidious's hands is accurate because he is, as I said, already more powerful than the original and he has two sabers. If Sids intends on Lightning whoring during a saber lock, SK can block it with his other saber--which brings up another one of my ideas that as powerful as Dooku is, I can see him barely on par with Starkiller's flurries as shown in the E3 trailer.

I think it's fair to me to think that Mace did have Sidious in trouble quite a few times, who constantly backed away. The only thing stopping Mace from killing Sidious after a closed-in lightsaber duel is the fact that I'm letting Sidious use his other saber as a backup, and lightning wouldn't bode well when Mace can deflect it as well as he did in ep3.

The clone of Starkiller did things far above the original's capacity, like surviving the open surface of a half-disintegrated freighter, which should be as powerful if not more powerful than Sids' lightning. Not to mention that he single-handedly fended off a bloodthirsty Gorog while on hard-to-balance surfaces and keeping himself occupied with Stormies. I don't care if Galen died because Sids got him in close quarters. As I said, this is the way more powerful clone who won't have to worry about saving a Rebellion or have the time to listen to Jedi guidance that advised against killing the Emperor right then, right there.

Dooku can't match Starkiller in the Force IMO, but he should prove a challenge in saber combat. Still, Starkiller was very unpredictable in TFU2, and as depicted in the novels, Sids wasn't the only one who used the assumption of weakness to gain the upper hand, and Starkiller wasn't begging for his life.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Perhaps I would of if you'd stopped being a wussy little baby and outright said that you think Sidious wins instead of merely implied it like a coward.
estahuh

Your jealousy of my skills as a wordsmith is amusing, but it's not my fault that you have all the finesse of an epileptic with polio.

Originally posted by Nephthys
What, is it not logical to conclude that the guy who won the fight..... would win again?

Kindly direct me to where in this thread I said as much.

Originally posted by Nephthys
What do you suggest we do, simply ignore the fact that Windu has beaten Sidious when discussing who would win in a fight between the two? Yes, that sure does make sense.

http://ordinary-gentlemen.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/strawman-motivational.jpg

Originally posted by Nephthys
And your whole 'there's a world of difference between an instance and a trend' is meaningless peacocking. Why is there a huge difference between the two?





By their very different definitions, the two terms are very different. I'm not sure if you're being deliberately obtuse or if your fluency in the English language is tenuous but I'm not interested in that rigamarole in either case.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Simply stating that doesn't mean anything unless you support it with evidence to the contrary and an argument against why Windu could replicate his win.

I never claimed Windu couldn't replicate his win, but you seem so keen on combating a caricature rather than the real deal, so feel free to have this debate (both sides of it) on your own if you aren't up to the task.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Finally your point about Sidious' Force advantage is stupid, and ignores that due to Vapaad Windu can weather Sidious' Force attacks. Kind of like how he actually did in the actual fight between the two that we can use to see how an actual fight between the two would actually go. Because it actually already happened. :I

Perhaps if Mace demonstrated a clear and decisive advantage I would be amenable to the idea that he would take a majority, but he didn't and I'm not. Sidious is, at the very least, a comparable duelist and a superior Force user. Drawing on their respective abilities and capabilities, he enjoys a clear advantage as Intrepid37 and Mizukage_Yoda have both respectably demonstrated.

So, to recap: your argument conflates an instance with a trend, disregards Sidious's superior Force mastery and comparable swordsmanship, hinges on clumsy scripting, and contains more straw than the entirety of the Great Plains.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m301cchOjP1qbolbn.gif

You're boring me, Neph. If your next post is anything like the one I'm quoting now, don't waste your time.

That clap gif stutters in just the right place to make it look really awkward and dumb.

Suits you just fine, then, doesn't it?

Well I'm not porking you for your social grace or intense intellect, thats for sure.

Originally posted by Taay'hai
FFS. Guys, did I say "GALEN MAREK" or "STARKILLER", Galen Marek's clone, who should be described already more powerful than the original, as I think he is equal or even above the Dark Apprentice.

I hate this misconception people seem to have with this. Starkiller was NOT the name of Galen's clone. Starkiller was the CODENAME of the ORIGINAL Galen Marek. His Clone is nameless, and should be refered to as "Starkiller Clone" or "Galen Marek's Clone" not as "Starkiller" because Starkiller was actually the original.

I'm not sure I'd separate the two in terms of ability tbh. One is literally a clone of the other.

And stronger.

Where is it stated that the Clone is stronger than Marek?

In the behind-the-scenes of TFU2, when Darth Vader says so.

Originally posted by Taay'hai
In the behind-the-scenes of TFU2, when Darth Vader says so.

Character statements are often fallacious in nature. What was the context behind the quote?

Originally posted by Intrepid37
As for Mace, well, Sidious utterly ragdolled Maul and Opress. What has Mace done that puts him above Maul in terms of force powers? Pushed a AT-TE? Maul pulled an Eta-class shuttle. Crushed a tank with a door? Maul has collapsed cave ceilings. Destroyed droids with his force wave? Maul has ragdolled Kenobi.

Why do most of your post lack common sense, basic logic and use fallacy after fallacy? I'm honeslty curious. Mace has fought Sids who DIDN'T ragdolll him. So how the in the hell are you trying to use a red herring to prove he would? He already had the chance... he even tried a force push move and it was promptly countered. What's worse you're using a false distincition and comparison with Maul and Mace. It doesn't matter what OFFENSIVE force feats Maul or Mace has... what matters is.. that Maul was utterly ragdolled all over the place WITH help. Mace fighting one v one was NEVER ragdolled at all. That is the most relevent point here. Not only did Mace prove he wouldn't be ragdolled when he fought Sids.... the only proof you offer for him being so (which by the way would have to be an incredible amount of proof to counter the fight we already saw) is maul has just as good offensive force powers WTF???? The best argument you could make is that Maul offensive powers are on par with Mace's but his defensive force powers are clearly lacking. We have mace not Ragdolled by Sids or Dooku... two people with some of the best force feats around... yet you turn around and go... Mace would be ragdolled LULZ. I would even touch your utterly laughable idiotic view that Sids woudl Solo.. He would do no such thing.. In fact, by canon sources... Sids couldln't even beat Mace.. let alone solo. Let me guess... he rand0113dzorz Maul and Opress AMIRITE?

Just because Sidious didn't ragdoll Mace... does not mean he can't.

For that matter, since when were there a difference between offensive and defensive powers?

You don't think there are? Do you think offensive and defensive works the same or you're as good at both. Look at any sports medium there is... players are rarely if ever equal at both. Nor do they require the same skills or practice to get better at. Why would it be different in the star wars universe? A perfect example is how Dooku can beat Kenobi with utter ease with the force.. i.e. his defenses aren't as good as Anakin.. who is never easily dispatched by Dooku in the same manner. Yet.. when Kenobi and Anakin engaged offensively.. it was a stalemate. Point is, it's a worse slippery slope and done right laughable to say Sids would solo somebody he already lost to and has NEVER beaten. That is pretty much beyond logic and dead square in the middle of stupid.

Oh god.

Sidious force pushed Mace into a wall. Sora Bulq did the exact same thing when he and Mace fought. Should we consider Bulq an equal to Sidious in terms of telekinesis?

The answer is no.

so there was literally nothing of importance with your last post except for fallacies and false comparisons? Look, my only point is, stop telling others to be logical, when you've been one of the worst in that area in the thread. It's bordering on comical to see you say logical with some of your posts.

Point out where I've told others to be logical..?

Pretty sure I remember a certain someone belligerently asserting that Mace would beat Dooku's ass... Despite the fact that Mace is not known to have ever beaten Dooku before though we know Dooku has beaten Mace.

Suggesting that Sidious, who is on par with Mace as a duelist and surpasses him as a Force adept, CAN'T beat him is probably the dumbest thing I've read in recent memory and I've read SW_LeGeND.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Pretty sure I remember a certain someone belligerently asserting that Mace would beat Dooku's ass... Despite the fact that Mace is not known to have ever beaten Dooku before though we know Dooku has beaten Mace.

Suggesting that Sidious, who is on par with Mace as a duelist and surpasses him as a Force adept, CAN'T beat him is probably the dumbest thing I've read in recent memory and I've read SW_LeGeND.

Point me to a place where i said Sids couldn't beat Mace?

Further, you're refrencing Dooku beating Mace in SPARRING.. which is utterly useless. Mace shoud no doubt be the favorite against Dooku. Doesn't mean dooku can't take some wins.. but mace should, and rightfully so be the favorite. That is without question and all I've ever said.

LeGeND is the shit.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Suggesting that Sidious, who is on par with Mace as a duelist and surpasses him as a Force adept, CAN'T beat him is probably the dumbest thing I've read in recent memory and I've read SW_LeGeND.

I've seen dumber in this very thread.

Right here, KT.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Point is, it's a worse slippery slope and done right laughable to say Sids would solo somebody he already lost to and has NEVER beaten. That is pretty much beyond logic and dead square in the middle of stupid.

Fail and a big fail. NO place does it say Sids COULDN'T or Wouldn't.. what it says which is 100% canon factual is.. he NEVER HAS. I know you're better at english than this Tempest. Come on.

lol

KT, you said it's "downright laughable" and "dead square in the middle of stupid" to say Sidious "would solo somebody he lost to and has never beaten."

You are more than welcome to try and explain how that doesn't mean Sidious can't beat Mace, but it's precisely BECAUSE I am "better at English" that I know you can't.

There's also this:

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I would even touch your utterly laughable idiotic view that Sids woudl Solo.. He would do no such thing.. In fact, by canon sources... Sids couldln't even beat Mace.. let alone solo.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Agreed but an even worse slippery slope is that Sids woudl Solo somebody that he already lost to.

Originally posted by The_Tempest


KT, you said it's "downright laughable" and "dead square in the middle of stupid" to say Sidious "would solo somebody he lost to and has never beaten."

You are more than welcome to try and explain how that doesn't mean Sidious can't beat Mace, but it's precisely BECAUSE I am "better at English" that I know you can't.

Either you're being obtuse on purpose because your ASSumption on my post was wrong... or I gave you more credit than you deserve for your english. There is literally no in between. We'll see from your next post which it is.

You do understand the difference between can't and hasn't right? Saying somebody hasn't done something in no way shape or form means that can't do something. Could it mean that...yes.. does it always mean that or even mean that most of the time... no. That simple break down of the english language proves exactly where you went wrong.. and how I never said he couldn't beat Mace... Well besides the obvious of me NEVER using the word can't.

Not only was that your first reading comprehension error but it was made worse by a quote mining fallacy. The context of the conversation was saying it's not logical to think somebody would beat TWO... yes TWO people.. when he hasn't even beaten one of those people one v one.. and in fact lost. I am 100% correct in saying that is not logical and falls into the category of possible but certianly not probable. Let's use a real world example....

Would it be logical to say GSP could beat a Prime Matt Hughes AND Carlos Condit at the same time? Doesn't seem so because GSP already lost to a prime matt hughes. So how would adding condit not further tip the scales into the highly unlikely category? Sure he could, but more than likely he wouldn't. Same thing here... Sids already lost to Mace.. has never beaten Mace.. yet you're going to give Mace strong help and still think Sids can win? That is bording on stupid.. yet nobody is saying it's not possible.

Another example... Is it safe to say the Patriots have NEVER beaten the Giants in a superbowl? Of course it is.. because they haven't. However, that isn't teh same thing as they couldn't beat the Giants in a superbowl. In fact, it's beyond me how you could even make that comparison. Those two words aren't mutually inclusive.. in fact they are mutually exclusive. The most you coudl say about my quotes is that it's possible I'm saying Sids can't beat Mace... that would take a lot of inference and assumptions to reach such a conclusion.. but sure.. one could. However, that wasn't what I was sayign nor is that the likely conclusion that one would reach with what I said.

Again, I simply said Mace HASN'T beaten Mace... That isn't the same as saying Sids couldn't beat Mace. Now, we're going to see if I gave you too much credit or you're being obtuse on purpose.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
There's also this:

NONE of which says Sids CAN'T beat Mace solo. Please show me the post where I say he can't do that. Saying he hasn't and can't are the same thing. You do know the difference between them right?

^ You fail entirely to mention Starkiller. All you mention is "somebody has already lost to and has NEVER beaten" and claim that it's "laughable," "beyond logic," and "dead square in the middle of stupid" to believe Sidious could beat that person .

If your intention was to claim it is "laughable" and "beyond logic and dead square in the middle of stupid" to argue Sidious could beat Mace AND Starkiller, you probably should have mentioned Starkiller to begin with.

QED, you apparently mistyped and the error is yours.

Whats your thinking Tempest? Do you think Sidious could solo those two? I think its a stupid idea myself but there you go.

It can't be THAT stupid if you aren't backing it 100%.

On neutral ground, in a general contest, without scripting? Doubt it.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
^ You fail entirely to mention Starkiller. All you mention is "somebody has already lost to and has NEVER beaten" and claim that it's "laughable," "beyond logic," and "dead square in the middle of stupid" to believe Sidious could beat that person .

If your intention was to claim it is "laughable" and "beyond logic and dead square in the middle of stupid" to argue Sidious could beat Mace AND Starkiller, you probably should have mentioned Starkiller to begin with.

QED, you apparently mistyped and the error is yours.

Actually I didn't.. you quoted mine something and were called out on your fallacy for doing so. If you read the conversation yo u would KNOW I was addressing int. post about him SOLOING Mace and starkiller. Then I even mention him SOLOING in the very post you quoted. What else could I be talking about when using the word SOLO? How do you solo a one v one fight? Solo is used when referencing ONE PERSON.. ON A TEAM... not needing help and beating another TEAM.. is that not when the term solo is used?

At least I'm glad you concended that NO PLACE in my post did I mention Sids not being about to beat Mace. Concession accepted on that point.

facepalm

Saying Sidious couldn't solo Mace makes contextual and syntactical sense even if the argument is dumb. What it means is that Sidious alone can't beat Mace: in other words, he can't solo him.

Based on your mistyped sentence, the unintended point read fine. Your sentence very clearly intimates that it is laughable and beyond logic to argue that Sidious could beat Mace alone.

If that's not what you intended, your sentence should have named Starkiller or alluded to his presence.

QED, the error is yours. Try not to be so clumsy next time.

Incorrect.... this is only addressing your quote mining fallacy which you were guilty of. Don't think I didn't notice you not addressing what I said. I'll ask again to see you squirm again... When the term Solo or soloing is used... Is that not used when talking about a person on a TEAM beating another TEAM by themselves? Is that not when that term is used?

Now, this wasn't your only error and don't think I didn't notice your exclusion of the other point. Even if you say I didn't mention StarK... that doesn't change the fact that I never EVER said Sids COULDN'T beat Mace.. I said he HASN'T beaten Mace. So I'll ask again.. you do understand the difference between Hasn't and can't right? Here's a hint.. they aren't mutually inclusive. Should I repeat the examples I used to show how can't isn't worlds apart from hasn't?

Solo means alone, KT. Sure, it's common usage here refers to situations with multiple opponents. But your sentence vey clearly only mentions ONE opponent. You said it's laughable that Sidious "would SOLO SOMEBODY."

Guess how many people SOMEBODY refers to, KT. Hint: it's less than 2.

And you have yet to explain how determining that arguing X would occur is laughable, beyond logic, and in the middle of stupid means you think X is possible.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Your jealousy of my skills as a wordsmith is amusing, but it's not my fault that you have all the finesse of an epileptic with polio.

From a guy who can't even quote my post correctly, this is a knee slapper.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Kindly direct me to where in this thread I said as much.

Isn't this what you were driving at with your 'We can't logically conclude that the outcome of a singular contest between peers represents a general rule unless otherwise notified.' It seems to be exactly in line with what I said you said.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
http://ordinary-gentlemen.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/strawman-motivational.jpg

Its hardly a strawman when I'm merely questioning what your argument is. You did and do seem to be arguing that the fact that Windu has beaten him is irrelevant. When I tried to say that Windu winning is still an important piece of evidence you flatly mocked me and ignored it. I can hardly be blamed for taking away that impression, now can I?


Originally posted by The_Tempest
By their very different definitions, the two terms are very different. I'm not sure if you're being deliberately obtuse or if your fluency in the English language is tenuous but I'm not interested in that rigamarole in either case.

Your own definition refers to an 'instance' as being part of 'process or series of events'.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I never claimed Windu couldn't replicate his win, but you seem so keen on combating a caricature rather than the real deal, so feel free to have this debate (both sides of it) on your own if you aren't up to the task.

No, you merely implied it oh so subtly by pointing out that Sidious is his equal is dueling and his superior in the Force. You are clearly arguing for him, even if you are not outright stating it.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Perhaps if Mace demonstrated a clear and decisive advantage I would be amenable to the idea that he would take a majority, but he didn't and I'm not. Sidious is, at the very least, a comparable duelist and a superior Force user. Drawing on their respective abilities and capabilities, he enjoys a clear advantage as Intrepid37 and Mizukage_Yoda have both respectably demonstrated.

You mean other than his advantages in terms of Vapaad and Shatterpoint? They were enough of an advantage for him to already defeat Sidious once. Whereas Sidious' own advantage in terms of Force power failed to defeat Windu or give him a tangible advantage, despite the fact that he's described as assaulting him with the Force at least 3 times across a variety of media in that fight. Imo Windu has enough to negate Sidious' Force attacks and force him into a duel which he will win thanks to Shatterpoint, as he did already in their fight.

Tempest, why deny the facts... Darth Sidious is even your profile pic

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Solo means alone, KT. Sure, it's common usage here refers to situations with multiple opponents. But your sentence vey clearly only mentions ONE opponent. You said it's laughable that Sidious "would SOLO SOMEBODY."

Guess how many people SOMEBODY refers to, KT. Hint: it's less than 2.

And you have yet to explain how determining that arguing X would occur is laughable, beyond logic, and in the middle of stupid means you think X is possible.


Good... I'm glad to see some concessions here. I didn't see the need to mention multiple people since the person I was talking to was very clear on our subject i.e. Sids soloing Mace and Starkiller. The reason i focused and mentioned Mace.. is because that is the laughable part of his premise and conclusion. How could he solo a team when he's already lost to one of the team members one v one. Sure I could've said it that way.. but again.. he was well aware of our discussion. So you're correct in saying I didn't say Starkiller in my post and thus it could be up to reader what I meant in a sense.

Lastly, it's very simple... I could say it's laughable and beyond stupid to think the Rams will win the superbowl next year. Doesn't mean it's not possible though. Come on tempest you understand this distinction as well. Something could be a laughable and stupid premise.. doesn't mean it's not possible.. even if the that possibility is .000001%. While still possible.. the extreme nature of the odds makes calling it a stupid scenerio valid.. hence the low odds. Generally I tend to go with what is probable not possible and I think you do the same.

Nice to see I did well enough to deign a response.

You clearly spent 24 hours working on it and though you're a moron of the highest order... I like to reward hard work every now and then.

Nah, 24 minutes tops. Most of it spent listening to Lonelyisland.

That's what you want everyone to believe.

Imma be the syrup you can be my waffle.

wat

You girls should take this internet sexting into private chat excellent

too late

3sum?

y/n

Count me in!

I'm game.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
too late

3sum?

y/n

y

excellent

'Palpatine killed Master Windu's companions and battled the Jedi Master, who soon gained the upper hand. Just as Windu was ready to slay Palpatine, Anakin Skywalker intervened and cut off Windu's lightsaber hand. This gave Palpatine the opportunity to blast Windu with Force lightning, sending him out a window to his death.'

Parity my patoot!

Originally posted by Nephthys
'Palpatine killed Master Windu's companions and battled the Jedi Master, who soon gained the upper hand. Just as Windu was ready to slay Palpatine, Anakin Skywalker intervened and cut off Windu's lightsaber hand. This gave Palpatine the opportunity to blast Windu with Force lightning, sending him out a window to his death.'

Parity my patoot!

I see LeGenD is spoon feeding you your arguments now, which explains why they've gone from bad to worse.

Anyway, nothing in this except contradicts the film, the novel, the various supplement material released between 2005 and today, and my argument.

That Windu won the duel clearly means he gained the upper hand. (In fact, I'm amused that you had to read that excerpt in order to draw that conclusion.) That doesn't mean Sidious isn't a comparable duelist.

Its not his arguments, merely a quote he found that I'd never seen before.

That he swiftly gained the upper hand does not suggest parity bro.

Also do you suppose it claiming that 'Windu was ready to slay Palpatine,' means that Sidious really was weakened to the point where he couldn't fight back? mmm

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I see LeGenD is spoon feeding you your arguments now, which explains why they've gone from bad to worse.

Anyway, nothing in this except contradicts the film, the novel, the various supplement material released between 2005 and today, and my argument.

That Windu won the duel clearly means he gained the upper hand. (In fact, I'm amused that you had to read that excerpt in order to draw that conclusion.) That doesn't mean Sidious isn't a comparable duelist.
I am not spoon-feeding any member here. And spare me the assumption that if I make an argument, it has to be classified as "worse" in its make-up. Just like several members here, I rely upon canon sources to support my arguments. Stop assuming that you are superior to people and stop harboring grudge against others. People can be more accomplished then you in real life in many aspects, in case you forgot.

This thread is too famous to simply let go of... so I'm going to be specific now.

Starkiller > TFU1 + TFU2
Mace Windu > CW2003 + RotS
Darth Sidious > TCW + RotS
Dooku > AotC + RotS

I'm going to be working on getting good quotes and "novelizing" some unwritten fight scenes seen on video

Going to start with Starkiller.

Even as he mulled over this new development, a familiar snap-hiss sounded to his right and a glowing blue-white blade sprang to life in a dark corner of the hangar.
Instantly in a fighting crouch, the apprentice brought his own blade up to block the blow, teeth bared in a delighted snarl.
He and his adversary held the pose for a bare second, lightsabers locked across their chests. The apprentice quickly sized up the being who had attacked him. Human male, fair-haired and bearded, with calm, serious eyes and a firm set to his jaw. Anyone within the living memory of the Clone Wars--or possessing free access to the Jedi Archives--would have recognized him completely.
Jedi Master Obi-Wan Kenobi, High General of the Republic and master of the Soresu form of deadly lightsaber combat, slid his deadly blade down to the right, ducking at the same time to avoid the inevitable countersweep. Sparks flew as the apprentice Force-leapt high into the air and landed with perfect agility on top of a stack of crates. He reached out with the Force with his cupped left hand and swept a metal tool kit across the hangar bay, toward his opponent's head. Kenobi ducked and leapt up after him, deflecting a flurry of blows that would have left an ordinary man in piece, then responding with a sweep of his own that sent the apprentice dodging backward, jumping from one stack to another in temporary retreat.
So the duel proceeded for almost a minute, with Kenobi and the apprentice dancing like acrobatic Gados from stack to stack, lightsabers spinning and clashing, racks and tools turned into temporary weapons as they hurled themselves from one to the other. The racket was enormous, and the threat very real. Kenobi slashed a new rip in the apprentice's combat suit with a move that would've taken his arm off at the elbow had he not moved in time. Twice he felt rather than saw the Jedi's blade sweep over his head.
The apprentice wasn't afraid of dying. His only fear was of failing his Master, and that fear he put to good use. The dark side rushed through him, made him strong and resilient. He felt more powerful than he ever had before.
Vader was sending him to hunt one of his old foes--and how better to warm up for a mission than killing the man who had once been the most famous Jedi in the galaxy.
Alive with murderous intent, the apprentice rushed forward, his red blade swinging, to finish the job.

Kota's battle coming up.

Kazdan Paratus's battle next.

No need.

Shaak Ti next.

I don't get one thing in your logic guys ; C

Dooku's force powers are greater then Mace's, and they're equal in sabers.
Sidious's force powers are greater then Starkiller's.

Starkiller is te weakest link in sabers.

So why Starkiller can destroy Dooku with his force powers, and Sidious (stronger then Starkiller) can't do the same to Mace (weaker then Dooku)?

I would say, its smth like that:

Force:
Sidious
Starkiller/Dooku (probably Starkiller above)
Mace

Saber:
Dooku/Mace/Sidious
Starkiller

Sith have better teamwork and are much more experienced.

Maris Brood next.

Originally posted by Vensai
Even then, Mace almost ate his own saber due to Sidious' lightning assault.

You know I was thinking about this, and it really doesn't show in the movie:

Pk4AiCnMqpg

If anything, Mace is constantly pushing forward, multiple times managing to push his saber good distances towards Palpatine. Its pretty much the opposite of what the novel says. Also Palpatine is standing up in the novel so its clearly non-canon!