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Who wins you decide

Spite against supes

Shadow Cat

Kitty; petite Jewish xmen heroine?

Superman spite

at best she could force a stalemate. I dont think his vibratoy intangibility could be used to tag her.

That sounds naughty

Shadow Cat, 10/10

Shadow Cat is too fast and too strong for someone like Superman.

Am I missing something?


Fernus f***ed Superman UP when he did no more than phase him into the JLA coffee table.

Why should he do any better against a woman who has that type of attack as her primary superpower?

Didn't hulk take her out with a thunder clap? Why couldn't supes do the same? Anyway, it's obvious that blue is the only one here who thinks kitty can win.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider


Am I missing something?


Fernus f***ed Superman UP when he did no more than phase him into the JLA coffee table.

Why should he do any better against a woman who has that type of attack as her primary superpower?

Because Shadowcat lacks all the other powers that J'onn would have needed to use in concert to hold Superman in place.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Shadowcat lacks all the other powers that J'onn would have needed to use in concert to hold Superman in place.


Review JLA v1 #86, Pr.

Fernus stayed behind, true, but he wasn't staying behind to make sure Superman stayed in place. He was just lying in wait for the rest of the Justice League. Once part of the JLA table was phased into Superman, that was pretty much it for him. He needed no further handling; his team had to use extraordinary efforts after that point to revive him, there was no fight left in him after that.

Hulk is actually the other reason I'm thinking Shadowcat win.

For Hulk himself, in his powerful "World War" form was almost defeated by Kitty. I cannot remember if it was his healing factor (which is portrayed as far superior to Superman's in most instances) that saved Hulk or if Hulk just managed to tough through the pain until that overload technique wore off.

I'm pretty sure it was the former, though, that Kitty's attack was the whole reason Beast realized they needed to neutralize Hulk's healing factor before the team could bring Hulk down.

I'm not seeing how Superman going through his normal fight paces avoids this kind of treatment.

Superman has been phased in ground before. He came out looking fine after that. His way of intangibility is also like kitty, no reason he can't counter it with his own intangibility.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/th_055009.jpg

that's pre-boot

LOL@People who really believe Kitty has a shot

Originally posted by psycho gundam
that's pre-boot Yes, but Blue is arguing preboot Supes anyways.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Hulk is actually the other reason I'm thinking Shadowcat win.

For Hulk himself, in his powerful "World War" form was almost defeated by Kitty. I cannot remember if it was his healing factor (which is portrayed as far superior to Superman's in most instances) that saved Hulk or if Hulk just managed to tough through the pain until that overload technique wore off.

I'm pretty sure it was the former, though, that Kitty's attack was the whole reason Beast realized they needed to neutralize Hulk's healing factor before the team could bring Hulk down.

I'm not seeing how Superman going through his normal fight paces avoids this kind of treatment.

So you're assuming Superman fights like an idiot, and Kitty fights at optimal capacity? No offense, but that's how it's sounding...

I mean, even if her power set isn't common knowledge, he could probably tell what her trick is with his vision powers.. And it's not like he's not a lot faster, more mobile, and can simply avoid being touched, until he figures her out.

Supergirl fts doesn't belong to superman.

Originally posted by carver9
Supergirl fts doesn't belong to superman.

A feat courtesy of training by Flash, his JLA teammate.

Feats are king, but we don't throw away common sense either.. (E.g., there may or may not be proof that Batman trained the entire JLA like he trained Kyle and Superman, but it stands to reason he'd train the entire JLA.)

Supermans dealt with phasing fine, too. A bunch of guys with phase tech hurt him, but couldn't keep him down.

Originally posted by carver9
Supergirl fts doesn't belong to superman.



Even if they did, Supergirl herself betrays vulnerability to this kind of assault. I no longer remember the issue number, but this was shown in the episode where Kara went against Sakki the hate-furnace and Gakidou, a woman with powers fairly similar to Shadowcat's own ...


http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13892194

Originally posted by abhilegend
Superman has been phased in ground before. He came out looking fine after that. His way of intangibility is also like kitty, no reason he can't counter it with his own intangibility.
I doubt it. recent descriptions of her power state it projects an inexplicable field from within her, which is why she can phase other objects. on the other hand, her power has, in the past, been described as her spinning her subatomic particles around those of the matter she phases through, but that isnt vibrating them and she could probably spin them around superman's vibrating ones too, regardless of them "occupying" a wider range in space by high frequency vibration.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Hulk is actually the other reason I'm thinking Shadowcat win.

For Hulk himself, in his powerful "World War" form was almost defeated by Kitty. I cannot remember if it was his healing factor (which is portrayed as far superior to Superman's in most instances) that saved Hulk or if Hulk just managed to tough through the pain until that overload technique wore off.

I'm pretty sure it was the former, though, that Kitty's attack was the whole reason Beast realized they needed to neutralize Hulk's healing factor before the team could bring Hulk down.

I'm not seeing how Superman going through his normal fight paces avoids this kind of treatment. she could have killed or at least beaten the hulk by phasing his head into the ground, but SM can fly, so her chances of sneaking up on him through the ground are zero.

Does she need to breath?

You'd think not since there's no air in between solid objects, but that could be comic book science at work.

Can she survive in a vacuum, in space? Or under the ocean?

Originally posted by emporerpants
Didn't hulk take her out with a thunder clap? Why couldn't supes do the same? Anyway, it's obvious that blue is the only one here who thinks kitty can win. she was solid, or at least solid enough to let air hit her at that particular moment. WWH required quite a bit of PIS and CIS to play out.

Originally posted by 753
she could have killed or at least beaten the hulk by phasing his head into the ground, but SM can fly, so her chances of sneaking up on him through the ground are zero. Superman also has a bazillions senses.

Originally posted by cdtm
Does she need to breath?

You'd think not since there's no air in between solid objects, but that could be comic book science at work.

Can she survive in a vacuum, in space? Or under the ocean? IIRC she used to have to hold her breath when phasing, but I think that's been dropped as she did spend months in space within the planet killing bullet and has phased through miles long layers of soil and metal that must have taken many minutes to cross. it's probably just inconssitent writing.

EDIT: I've just remembered a way she could conceivebly win, though not for a majority. If she concentrates, che can cause seizures in people she phases through by disrupting their nervous impulses like she does to electric currents in machinery.

Kitty pride 0.001/10

Originally posted by carver9
Supergirl fts doesn't belong to superman.
Superman has gone intangible by vibrating many times. That scan was to show how that works and its similar to kitty's.Originally posted by 753
I doubt it. recent descriptions of her power state it projects an inexplicable field from within her, which is why she can phase other objects. on the other hand, her power has, in the past, been described as her spinning her subatomic particles around those of the matter she phases through, but that isnt vibrating them and she could probably spin them around superman's vibrating ones too, regardless of them "occupying" a wider range in space by high frequency vibration.
Has she ever moved through an intangible being?

Originally posted by 753
she was solid, or at least solid enough to let air hit her at that particular moment. WWH required quite a bit of PIS and CIS to play out.

Is that what the story said?

Because I can see her being pretty messed by the sound, if nothing else. Burst eardrums, at the least. She can still hear, even in a phased state.

I don't understand why you feel she has any need to sneak.

DCnU Superman is a better fighter than his pre-52 version, I grant you.

But where do you see him hanging back from people the way you're suggesting? A more in-your-face character than 52Clark I've yet to see.


Several of the posters here actually commented on that fact in another thread.

Here, because it suits them to present Superman as this cautious thoughtful probing man, they forget how brash, direct, and confrontational he is:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=382350&pagenumber=2149

Originally posted by cdtm
Is that what the story said?

Because I can see her being pretty messed by the sound, if nothing else. Burst eardrums, at the least. She can still hear, even in a phased state. I dont think it was stated, but considering she can go completely intangible, she must have been (idiotically) semi-solid, at least. I wouldn't think much of her hearing, characters need to interact while fighting, but an explanation that accomodates both is that she retains a minimum level of solidity to be able to hear and that made her vulnerable to the thunderclap.

EDIT: just recalled, in order to float up and down, she solidifies enough to have some attriction with air.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Superman has gone intangible by vibrating many times. That scan was to show how that works and its similar to kitty's.
Has she ever moved through an intangible being? not that I recall. I'm trying to dig any encounters with the vision she might have had.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
I don't understand why you feel she has any need to sneak.

DCnU Superman is a better fighter than his pre-52 version, I grant you.

But where do you see him hanging back from people the way you're suggesting? A more in-your-face character than 52Clark I've yet to see.


Several of the posters here actually commented on that fact in another thread.

Here, because it suits them to present Superman as this cautious thoughtful probing man, they forget how brash, direct, and confrontational he is:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=382350&pagenumber=2149

lol.

Superman is more willing to act. That doesn't mean he has become a savage brute. He is constantly looking for his enemies weaknesses and stregths when he fights them. I remember him taking note of the Predator ripoff capabilities as they fought.

Originally posted by Zack Fair


Superman is more willing to act. That doesn't mean he has become a savage brute.





Is that what I'm looking at here in Justice League #2?

Care to tell me what the "savage brute" approach would look like in contrast to this?

Originally posted by bluewaterrider



Is that what I'm looking at here in Justice League #2?

Care to tell me what the "savage brute" approach would look like in contrast to this? Younger more volatile Superman than the one you showed earlier.

And Superman had been worked into a frenzy by Darkseid's parademons back then.

Oh and he analyzed Batman's gadgets before he assaulted Batman.

Nice try though.

Originally posted by Zack Fair


younger Superman than the one you showed earlier.


Nice try, though.




Sure, except it was you yourself that suggested the switch of Superman:



Originally posted by psycho gundam
that's pre-boot


Originally posted by Zack Fair


Yes, but Blue is arguing preboot Supes anyways ...

I didn't suggest anything.

I simply told PG why abhil started posting preflashpoint scans.

Did you miss the "worked into a frenzy, already analyzed batman's gadgets" edit?

Oh well.

Originally posted by Zack Fair
I didn't suggest anything.

I simply told PG why abhil started posting preflashpoint scans.



On the contrary. Posting a "Yes, but" in this context is saying

"Say, Blue, everyone else was arguing DCnU Superman. You're the only one arguing preboot Superman. Did you realize that? I'm willing to converse with you ON preboot Superman, no problem, but you really should switch to talking about the current one, if possible ..."

Shake.My.Head.

I think he was simply trying to be fair to Abhi.

Originally posted by cdtm
....not how I read it.

I think he was just playing fair for Abhi's sake. Exactly

Originally posted by Zack Fair
Nice deflection.

It's not a deflection. That's what your words mean in the English language in this context, whether you realize it or not, whether you acknowledge it or not.


Now, presumably, you're calling this a "deflection" because you mentioned something about an edit. Worked into a frenzy or some such?

But DCnU Superman is like that in other instances as well.
A good case-in-point is that "Major Force" encounter you guys were talking about a few weeks ago:

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
It's not a deflection. That's what your words mean in the English language in this context, whether you realize it or not, whether you acknowledge it or not.


Now, presumably, you're calling this a "deflection" because you mentioned something about an edit. Worked into a frenzy or some such?

But DCnU Superman is like that in other instances as well.
A good case-in-point is that "Major Force" encounter you guys were talking about a few weeks ago:

It looks like deflection to me. You posted "Superman savage brutally assaulting Batman" and I countered it. Then you went on about me suggesting we use New 52.

You can get into semantics all you want. Fact is you looked way too much into a post meant to address why Abhi used a preboot scan.

Should I not do that? I suppose. Something as simple as that apparently goes over your head.

I'm well aware of it. I responded to it earlier. I told you that wasn't a fight. I said Superman is more willing to act than just take shit from people like his older pre-flashpoint counterpart. He comes off as a bully, but like I said earlier that does not make him a savage brute who doesn't think or figure out his opponent's capabilities.

Are we going to go in circles?

Superman, If i recall heatvision can still affect her molecules.

Keep your insults, Zack.

It's real simple.

Every phasing attack I've known to be used on Superman has proven enormously effective on Superman. Fernus put him into shock by doing no more than phasing pieces of a table into him.

The fact that Superman himself can vibrate through objects did nothing to protect him from that.

Supergirl has the same ability to vibrate through objects. To "Phase" if you will. This did not help her against Gakidou.

Kryptonian ability to "vibrate" or "go intangible" or whatever you wish to call it, does not protect against other objects being phased into them and them being debilitated by it.

I do not see where Superman, preboot OR DCnU has come up with any response to this. If you know of one that appears in the comics, please show it. I have not yet seen it. Until I do, I cannot conclude other than that DCnU Superman, direct and confrontational as he is, is NOT going to have the wherewithall to avoid Kitty's attack.

For, in a first time encounter, he has no reason to.

THAT is what I want a response to, backed up by some comic book evidence.

Is that the only reason he wins?

And is that true about HV affecting her molecules?

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Keep your insults, Zack.

It's real simple.

Every phasing attack I've known to be used on Superman has proven enormously effective on Superman. Fernus put him into shock by doing no more than phasing pieces of a table into him.

The fact that Superman himself can vibrate through objects did nothing to protect him from that.

Supergirl has the same ability to vibrate through objects. To "Phase" if you will. This did not help her against Gakidou.

Kryptonian ability to "vibrate" or "go intangible" or whatever you wish to call it, does not protect against other objects being phased into them and them being debilitated by it.

I do not see where Superman, preboot OR DCnU has come up with any response to this. If you know of one that appears in the comics, please show it. I have not yet seen it. Until I do, I cannot conclude other than that DCnU Superman, direct and confrontational as he is, is NOT going to have the wherewithall to avoid Kitty's attack.

For, in a first time encounter, he has no reason to.

THAT is what I want a response to, backed up by some comic book evidence.

How did I insult you? If I did offend you then I apologize.

Now you're back to Preboot Superman. Cool.

The best Kitty can do is stalemate. She might get a win if he enters blue "retard Superman mode and just stands there or willingly leaps at her and allows her to phase his organs out"

Originally posted by Zack Fair
Is that the only reason he wins?

And is that true about HV affecting her molecules?
nah, but it's one of the most practical and easiest ways


her abilities works through molecular manipulation correct?


heat still affects molecules various ways.

mmm

unless her powers work differently

Originally posted by Zack Fair
mmm

lol think about it, imagine kitty trying to phase through the sun, I don't see that happening.

She would swallow the sun into her vagina, turn it red with fluids and throw it back at Superman's face.

that sounds disturbingly satisfying, excuse me while I go look up some hardcore x-girls

http://s1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/?action=view&current=HVIntangible1.jpg
http://s1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/?action=view&current=HVIntangible2.jpg

Originally posted by abhilegend
http://s1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/?action=view&current=HVIntangible1.jpg
http://s1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/?action=view&current=HVIntangible2.jpg Did you not see the scan where superman was phased into a table and was crying like a baby? He was done, your scans support nothing and in no shape form or fashion shows superman being able to free himself. You continue to try and deceive and mislead with your meaningless scans. Try showing him getting out of a similar situation where he was trapped in that table,that way your credibility will re-establish itself with the majority on this forum. AND A CLOTHESLINE FROM HELL TO ANYBODY THAT DISAGREE.

Originally posted by Mr.SunKing
Superman, If i recall heatvision can still affect her molecules. Wont work on her and he wont even see her coming at him anyway.
Elemental Intangibility: Allow elemental attacks to pass harmlessly through her such as water, fire, earth, air, energy, electricity, and even lightning.

Physical Disruption: Kitty can easily damage tangible matter by passing right through it.

Non-Corporeal Physiology: Kitty's intangibility/phasing abilities make her practically untouchable.

Air & Water Walking: Using her phasing/intangibility ability, Shadowcat can freely walk on both air and water. In fact, she could use her ability to walk on water and the air from the ground to the upper stories of a building as if she were climbing a staircase.

Phasing/Intangibility Extension: From the first use of her phasing power, Shadowcat was able to phase her clothing along with herself. Through practice she learned to phase other objects along with herself without harm to them, and at one point phased an entire X-Men team. She could also enable someone as big as Colossus to "walk on air" along with her. However, she had to maintain physical contact with the people or objects she phased along with herself for the effect to work with this other person or object.

Camouflage: Kitty can easily bend into the colors of her immediate surroundings and environments, practically making her invisible to anything seen to the naked eye.

Shadow Camouflage: Shadowcat can also become completely invisible and unseen in shadows.

Electronic Disruption: She could phase through any material object, even living people. When she phased through an object with an electrical system, the process disrupted the system's workings.

Telepathic Resistance: Her thoughts were highly erratic when phased as if there was no mind to telepathically affect.

Cloaking: Kitty can hide herself and others from any type of optical eyesight

Superman vibrates at highspeed, counters Shadow Cat phasing and knocks her down.

Originally posted by JBL
Wont work on her and he wont even see her coming at him anyway.

Assuming she can avoid his vision powers, he can still hear her heartbeat.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Review JLA v1 #86, Pr.

Fernus stayed behind, true, but he wasn't staying behind to make sure Superman stayed in place. He was just lying in wait for the rest of the Justice League. Once part of the JLA table was phased into Superman, that was pretty much it for him. He needed no further handling; his team had to use extraordinary efforts after that point to revive him, there was no fight left in him after that.

Maybe my point wasn't clear enough. If so, my bad.

I'm talking about the power required to catch Superman unawares, to physically and telepathically restrain him, AND to get him to the table and phase him through it. Even phased, Superman would retain all of his natural abilities, abilities Shadowcat can't compete with.

One showing of him being phased in to a table, when he's endured much worse and been fine, isn't indicative of an average where Shadowcat would successfully get a majority over Superman, imo.

Originally posted by cdtm
Assuming she can avoid his vision powers, he can still hear her heartbeat.

and her breathing.

I'm not seeing how Superman loses this.

Originally posted by JBL
Did you not see the scan where superman was phased into a table and was crying like a baby? He was done, your scans support nothing and in no shape form or fashion shows superman being able to free himself. You continue to try and deceive and mislead with your meaningless scans. Try showing him getting out of a similar situation where he was trapped in that table,that way your credibility will re-establish itself with the majority on this forum. AND A CLOTHESLINE FROM HELL TO ANYBODY THAT DISAGREE.
Ok.

http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/16020021_phased.JPG http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/16020022_phased2.JPG

APA Bradshaw > JBL.

Superman wins.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Ok.

http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/16020021_phased.JPG http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/16020022_phased2.JPG

Uhmm is it only me who feels this scans of superman getting this much discomfort from a small phasing attack to his foot supports blue's argument more?

Originally posted by Mr.SunKing
nah, but it's one of the most practical and easiest ways


her abilities works through molecular manipulation correct?


heat still affects molecules various ways. she phases through energy attacks and has phased through earth's core. so no.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Uhmm is it only me who feels this scans of superman getting this much discomfort from a small phasing attack to his foot supports blue's argument more?
Not really. People (read blue) are acting that any phasing would disable superman. I've also has the scan of someone directly phasing his hand through superman's body and he shrugged it off.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Uhmm is it only me who feels this scans of superman getting this much discomfort from a small phasing attack to his foot supports blue's argument more? actually yeah, that doenst look good for him, but it changes nothing here. she'd never get the opportunity to phase his vital organs in.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Not really. People (read blue) are acting that any phasing would disable superman. I've also has the scan of someone directly phasing his hand through superman's body and he shrugged it off.

Shadowcat's more lethal attack isn't her phasing thru ppl (heck it's harmless unless you're technological), but it's her phasing you thru objects and re-solidifying while you're still in it.

The proper argument would be just to simply state that there is absolutely no way for her to even touch Superman or get him near enough a solid object to phase thru/solidify. Unless he fights really really really really really really really really really really really really really x100 stupid.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Shadowcat's more lethal attack isn't her phasing thru ppl (heck it's harmless unless you're technological), but it's her phasing you thru objects and re-solidifying while you're still in it.

The proper argument would be just to simply state that there is absolutely no way for her to even touch Superman or get him near enough a solid object to phase thru/solidify. Unless he fights really really really really really really really really really really really really really x100 stupid. I made that argument, yay!

For every terrorist in house of El like Abhi we get people like JBL and Blue.

This fkn thread is hilarious.

The hate is strong.

Somehow Kitty just because Trans+ or some shit.

Everyone watch out.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Shadowcat's more lethal attack isn't her phasing thru ppl (heck it's harmless unless you're technological), but it's her phasing you thru objects and re-solidifying while you're still in it.

The proper argument would be just to simply state that there is absolutely no way for her to even touch Superman or get him near enough a solid object to phase thru/solidify. Unless he fights really really really really really really really really really really really really really x100 stupid.

And doesn't she need to solidify, at least partially, to grab someone and phase them?

Meaning she'd be vulnerable?

Stalemate may be the best she could do.. But then, they wouldn't be fighting..

she projects a phase field from herself, not sure it requires attriction.

Don't worry about blue. I'm sure if you pit supes against any female hero, he'd argue that supes loses. Hell, I'm sure he'd take just about any hero over supes. To people wondering where people get the whole "superman haters everywhere!!!!1" mentality, look no further than this thread. I'm not saying that mentality is justified, but it is at least more understandable in the context of this kind of thing. Would anybody really argue that kitty can beat hulk, thor, surfer, etc. for the majority? Didn't think so.

The only reason Kitty managed to sneak up on Hulk like that was because the Hulkster was busy fighting the rest of the x-men.

Good luck trying to pull that stunt on WWH one on one. WWH claps. GG Kitty.

Originally posted by cdtm
Assuming she can avoid his vision powers, he can still hear her heartbeat. Cloaking: Kitty can hide herself and others from any type of optical eyesight.

What part of "hearing" did you miss?

Originally posted by Zack Fair
For every terrorist in house of El like Abhi...

You know what must be done if the House of El is to survive.

http://www.olympichottub.com/hot-tubs-sauna-blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/bottle-of-chlorox.jpg

Originally posted by Zack Fair
What part of "hearing" did you miss? What part of him being not able to do anything to her did you miss? freeze breath, heat vision, punching and vibrating are useless against her. So what if he hears her heartbeat, it will do him no good assuming he can even hear it in her phasing state. You have no proof whatsoever that he can hear hers in her attacking state... You assume much, yet prove nothing. You are beginning to remind me of abhi. Dont do that please.

Originally posted by -Pr-
APA Bradshaw > JBL. As JBL, he held far more titles.

Superman.

Originally posted by JBL
What part of him being not able to do anything to her did you miss? freeze breath, heat vision, punching and vibrating are useless against her. So what if he hears her heartbeat, it will do him no good assuming he can even hear it in her phasing state. You have no proof whatsoever that he can hear hers in her attacking state... You assume much, yet prove nothing. You are beginning to remind me of abhi. Dont do that please. Never saw anything about that in the post I quoted, so blah blah blah.

So what are Thor's chances against kitty? While you are at it what are Hulk's and Gladiator's?

So I am beginning to sound like Abhi simply because I disagree with this ridiculous notion that Kitty even has a chance?

You are the one blinded by hate. Kitty has no chance against Superman. None. Finito. Nothing. The only way she wins if he just stands there and lets her do her thing. And hilariously enough pre-flashpoint Superman has survived and fought on without his heart. Removing organs is not a clear win unless she somehow gets to remove his brain. Pre-Flashpoint Superman has also heard white martian's heartbeats when they tried to ambush him using invisibility during the Martian Invasion arc in Morrison's JLA run.

Can you provide evidence of Kitty being 100% silent when she is in her phasing state? Because I believe I should not have to post showings of Superman's super hearing.

mmm

I won't think too hard on why people are giving these instigative nonsense answers.

I might get scared if I did ...

He flys up hits her with a thunder clap or flys up waits for her to become tangable and speed blitz her at speeds she cnt see and breaks her neck done.

Originally posted by Zack Fair
Never saw anything about that in the post I quoted, so blah blah blah.

LOL. Just lol kid.

So what are Thor's chances against kitty? While you are at it what are Hulk's and Gladiator's?

So I am beginning to sound like Abhi simply because I disagree with this ridiculous notion that Kitty even has a chance. You did not see anything about that post because you were too busy trying to create a way for superman to win. Hulk and gladiator might get a piece of adamantium phased into their skulls also. You sound like abhi because you have no proof and you want superman to win 90% of the time and you carry a picture of him or his symbol in your posts. People know your vote before you vote. Now experiment and look at all who have his pic or symbol and see how they vote.

In case you missed this

Originally posted by Zack Fair

You are the one blinded by hate. Kitty has no chance against Superman. None. Finito. Nothing. The only way she wins if he just stands there and lets her do her thing. And hilariously enough pre-flashpoint Superman has survived and fought on without his heart. Removing organs is not a clear win unless she somehow gets to remove his brain. Pre-Flashpoint Superman has also heard white martian's heartbeats when they tried to ambush him using invisibility during the Martian Invasion arc in Morrison's JLA run.

Can you provide evidence of Kitty being 100% silent when she is in her phasing state? Because I believe I should not have to post showings of Superman's super hearing.

Originally posted by JBL
You did not see anything about that post because you were too busy trying to create a way for superman to win. Hulk and gladiator might get a piece of adamantium phased into their skulls also. You sound like abhi because you have no proof and you want superman to win 90% of the time and you carry a picture of him or his symbol in your posts. People know your vote before you vote. Now experiment and look at all who have his pic or symbol and see how they vote. I wasn't too busy trying to create a way for Superman win. Re-read the thread please.

Kitty has no chances against Hulk, Thor or Gladiator. This is a fact. Her one slim chance is sneaking up on them, and that is not happening in a 1 on 1.

LOL@The rest of this nonsense.

---

The fact this thread has reached 5 pages baffles me. I'm out of this shit.

Question for either of you -- can either of you see the symbols JBL is talking about WHILE you're logged in? Is there some setting you can tweak in your account that allows you to do this?

I'm asking because I can see the avatar RaoKalel (biensalsa) created for you when I'm logged out, Zack, but not when I'm logged in.

What symbols? o_o;

you mean the sig?

Originally posted by Zack Fair
In case you missed this



I wasn't too busy trying to create a way for Superman win. Re-read the thread please.

Kitty has no chances against Hulk, Thor or Gladiator. This is a fact. Her one slim chance is sneaking up on them, and that is not happening in a 1 on 1.

LOL@The rest of this nonsense.

---

The fact this thread has reached 5 pages baffles me. I'm out of this shit. All your opinion, yet you state it as FACT??? WOW.

Zack, the sooner we accept that Superman would lose every fight he could ever possibly get in, even the ones he has already won, the sooner we can get on with our lives! You see, it's simple really, JBL has shown us the truth...we both have superman in our posts...so that means that we are hopeless fanboys that have lost all objectivity! We are fools! There is no such thing as being a fan of Superman and being objective! It is simply not possible.

Thus, we are hopeless fanboys, drunk on our superman love, aching for our next Superman fix...

My next fix will come this thursday 131!!!!!

Originally posted by JBL
All your opinion, yet you state it as FACT??? WOW. By all means make the threads and lets see the consensus.

Originally posted by Zack Fair
What symbols? o_o;

you mean the sig?



I suppose ...


To make it clear, here is how you appear when I AM logged in, as now ...

That is weird. I don't know why you can't see it. Is anyone else having the same problem? What browser are you using?

Originally posted by Zack Fair
What symbols? o_o;

you mean the sig?


... and the following is how things appear when I am NOT logged in.



Note that you have a flying avatar of Superman appearing when I am not logged in and looking at this thread.

Note also that there is a difference of about 4 hours in the time.

My next fix as well.

Probably something to do with your user control panel. Perhaps you should consult one of the mods. They might know what is going on. Even biensalsa/rao might be able to help. Does it happen with other users?

Originally posted by Zack Fair
That is weird. I don't know why you can't see it. Is anyone else having the same problem? What browser are you using?


I'm using Firefox right now, but, when I use Internet Explorer, the situation is nearly exactly the same.

I'm thinking there is some control setting you guys have discovered or know about that I don't.

I don't think it's a problem with my basic Internet service.

Originally posted by emporerpants
Zack, the sooner we accept that Superman would lose every fight he could ever possibly get in, even the ones he has already won, the sooner we can get on with our lives! You see, it's simple really, JBL has shown us the truth...we both have superman in our posts...so that means that we are hopeless fanboys that have lost all objectivity! We are fools! There is no such thing as being a fan of Superman and being objective! It is simply not possible.

Thus, we are hopeless fanboys, drunk on our superman love, aching for our next Superman fix... Try saying that superman can lose a fight and stop spewing foolish ways for him to win such as blitzing, vibrating, singing or combo to KO, backed by proof instead of your opinions or calculations. We know what fans go overboard and which ones dont. We know the ones that will say he will beat Thanos, the Destroyer, Odin, Zeus or any other that would murder him at will. So dont try and twist thing for supermans sake. He has won battles and will win plenty more, but he can also lose. Yet when somebody says he loses, you get a million superman fans complaining about.... OH NO, THEY ARE HATING ON POOR OLE SUPERMAN.

JBL, you're logged on right now obviously, can YOU actually see the avatar Zack has RIGHT NOW, or do you only see it when looking at this thread before you actually log on?

Well, Odin, Zeus, Thanos, etc WOULD beat him. The thing is you seem to painting with a fairly broad brush there charger. Not everyone who loves Superman is a fanboy who thinks he can't lose. That said, what is wrong with speed blitzing and vibrating? If he has done it before multiple times why can't he do it here? Just because you don't like the fact that he can do something doesn't mean that all of a sudden he can't do it. Yeah, and for every fanboy that says he can never lose, you get one that says he'd lose to someone so far beneath him it isn't even funny. Like kitty for instance.

Why will no one answer me?

Am I alone in the world now ... ?

I'm not sure why that is blue, personally I'd ask a mod or admin about it.

Thanks, E.


I'll ask P.R. after dinner.

No problem man, hope that gets cleared up for you.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
You know what must be done if the House of El is to survive.

http://www.olympichottub.com/hot-tubs-sauna-blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/bottle-of-chlorox.jpg

Don't worry.

Originally posted by JBL
As JBL, he held far more titles.

Yes, but he looked like a tool.

==

Guys, try to keep things civil. That said, someone like Shadowcat beating Superman isn't an automatic certainty just because she has one of the powers that J'onn once used to temporarily disable him. Superman is still far faster, can fly etc.

Sorry Pr! I honestly wasn't trying to be really mean, although I did let my sarcasm get the best of me.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
JBL, you're logged on right now obviously, can YOU actually see the avatar Zack has RIGHT NOW, or do you only see it when looking at this thread before you actually log on? I can see it.

Shadowcat retcon punch Superman for the win. On the real though, Superman wins 10/10. Superman fought someone kind of like SC recently and he got stomped but she had super strength.

*high fives Carver* Yeah, kitty doesn't have anything else going for her that could give her the win.

Supes vs Martian Manhunter is apparently coming up soon, looking forward to seeing how that goes down. Supes ftw!

If Morrison's doing it, it should be close. He's the one who gave us J'onn destroying Ultraman.

If it's Johns or someone, then not sure..

Really, on power set, MM has what it takes.. It's the writing that's usually lacking.

Alright, in no particular order, and probably one point per post:



Neither preboot Superman nor DCnU Superman fight with all that much caution. I'll grant neither fights as poorly as what I'm about to show here for the sake of argument, but Superman from any era is pretty in-your-face.





http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13851254

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13851255

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13851258


---------------------------------------------------------------------
Story Title: "Kplow!"
Source: Trinity #3, Volume 1
Writer: Kurt Busiek
Penciller: Mark Bagley
Date: June 2008
---------------------------------------------------------------------
http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Trinity_Vol_1_3

That's a horrible example, tbh.

Superman might let the enemy get the initial punch to test their strength, but preboot Superman has shown plenty of instances where he's fought with consideration and care, even while apparently brawling.

Originally posted by Zack Fair


The only way she wins if he just stands there and lets her do her thing.


You're wrong about this. She can also do this if he merely fights her conventionally. Typical Superman engagements are glorified close quarters boxing matches.

What exactly are you proposing Superman is doing all this while anyway?
Hovering 100 feet above the ground blasting away with his heat vision?

Superman does not fight most enemies at a distance.

Originally posted by emporerpants


Would anybody really argue that kitty can beat hulk, thor, surfer, etc. for the majority? ...



Because of the way you wrote these, I'm under 2 impressions

1) You don't understand what is meant by "majority" or the percentages people give on this forum. They DON'T mean Superman and Kitty are having multiple fights and we're trying to determine who takes the most out of them. This is an important point to raise, for any casual reader using standard logic would probably come to that conclusion.

No, the forum rules, seldom read, state quite the opposite:

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Because of the way you wrote these, I'm under 2 impressions

1) You don't understand what is meant by "majority" or the percentages people give on this forum. They DON'T mean Superman and Kitty are having multiple fights and we're trying to determine who takes the most out of them. This is an important point to raise, for any casual reader using standard logic would probably come to that conclusion.

No, the forum rules, seldom read, state quite the opposite:

Since we're quoting rules...



Current Kitty starts off in a solid state, and needs to "activate" her power of intangibility.

Superman blitzes.

Originally posted by emporerpants


Would anybody really argue that kitty can beat hulk, thor, surfer, etc. for the majority? ...



The other thing I'm lead to believe by this

2) You are unaware of the actual history of Shadowcat versus Hulk and Thor and the reasons for the results.


Shadowcat did actually go against Hulk, as pointed out earlier in this thread. In fact, she went against World War Hulk, generally regarded as a step above Big Green as he's been throughout most years.

Fairly certain he prevailed, but, unless I am very mistaken, he did so because his healing factor negated the effects.

Does Superman have a healing factor in anywise comparable to that of WWH, who was able to survive having HOLES punched through his body by the Strange-summoned demon, Zom?

Originally posted by cdtm


Current Kitty starts off in a solid state, and needs to "activate" her power of intangibility.

Superman blitzes.





Say this loud enough for P.R. to hear you.

I dare you.

ermm @ this thread.

My initial instinct was to close this for spite as soon as I saw it. I should have listened to that instinct.

Well, before you do, allow me to post exactly what Kitty Pryde (Shadowcat) DID to Thor with her "laughable" phasing ability:

Who said it was laughable?

Have you actually paid attention to how many "LoL"s Zack Fair has posted in this thread now?


At any rate, no one who actually examines the evidence in this thread should go away now thinking phasing is some light thing even for high heralds to endure, whether they be Supes, his cousin, Thor, OR Hulk, and the latter 2 characters have magic healing or healing factors at a level far higher than Clark can duplicate:




Superman (Gakidou)

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14337214
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14337217



Supergirl (Gakidou)

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13892194



Superman (Fernus)

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14334622

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14334919



Thor (Shadowcat)

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14337201




World War Hulk (Shadowcat)

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14334940

It's not the phasing that people have the issue with (or at least, they shouldn't). it's the manner in which it's used, and who's using it.

Though I guess some might be overstating it's effectiveness.

Originally posted by -Pr-
It's not the phasing that people have the issue with (or at least, they shouldn't). it's the manner in which it's used, and who's using it.

Though I guess some might be overstating it's effectiveness.



Some people have issue with the idea of phasing being effective under any circumstances; re-read the thread if you don't believe me.

At any rate, I'll post the URL version of my list here for archive purposes, along with the excerpt I posted for Carver in the "Ownage" thread tonight.

Thank you for your time.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Interesting to note: Superman, having lesser healing ability than Kara (noted in Supergirl Volume 5 #13 if memory serves),
Hulk under Greg Pak (World War Hulk versus X-Men?),
or Thor via Mjolnir magic (Thor v1 #427-428)

can be effectively knocked out by this style of attack.





Superman (Gakidou)

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14337214
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14337217




Supergirl (Gakidou)

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13892194




Thor (Shadowcat)

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14337201




World War Hulk (Shadowcat)

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14334940





Superman (Fernus)

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14334622

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14334919

her powers can be used to cripple and probably kill superman. all other things considered she'd never get a majority or 1/10, really. If she plays deffensively, the most likely outcome here is a stalemate.

Shadowcat drags him into Limbo. Easily.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Some people have issue with the idea of phasing being effective under any circumstances; re-read the thread if you don't believe me.

At any rate, I'll post the URL version of my list here for archive purposes, along with the excerpt I posted for Carver in the "Ownage" thread tonight.

Thank you for your time.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Interesting to note: Superman, having lesser healing ability than Kara (noted in Supergirl Volume 5 #13 if memory serves),
Hulk under Greg Pak (World War Hulk versus X-Men?),
or Thor via Mjolnir magic (Thor v1 #427-428)

can be effectively knocked out by this style of attack.





Superman (Gakidou)

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14337214
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14337217




Supergirl (Gakidou)

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13892194




Thor (Shadowcat)

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14337201




World War Hulk (Shadowcat)

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14334940





Superman (Fernus)

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14334622

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14334919

I saw that, yes.

Interesting to note: Superman, having lesser healing ability than Kara (noted in Supergirl Volume 5 #13 if memory serves),
Hulk under Greg Pak (World War Hulk versus X-Men?),
or Thor via Mjolnir magic (Thor v1 #427-428)

can be effectively knocked out by this style of attack.






Originally posted by 753
her powers can be used to cripple and probably kill superman ... If she plays defensively, the most likely outcome here is a stalemate.


With yourself, P.R., and even Zack Fair admitting stalemate the most likely outcome, I'm content with calling this a draw, too.

Kitty's not likely to try anything lethal, and I suppose it IS possible Superman would just sort of hover around indefinitely using long-range attacks, though that doesn't conform to any DC comic I can personally remember reading.

Certainly I can't see DCnU Superman doing anything of that sort, but, well, no one rose to the challenge of showing me the more restrained side of 52, so it's a moot point.

I'll post the link version of this for people's convenience, along, again, with that excerpt I wrote Carver before, and say "good night" for now ...


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Interesting to note: Superman, having lesser healing ability than Kara (noted in Supergirl Volume 5 #13 if memory serves),
Hulk under Greg Pak (World War Hulk versus X-Men?),
or Thor via Mjolnir magic (Thor v1 #427-428)

can be effectively knocked out by this style of attack.





Superman (Gakidou)

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14337214
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14337217




Supergirl (Gakidou)

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13892194




Thor (Shadowcat)

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14337201




World War Hulk (Shadowcat)

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14334940





Superman (Fernus)

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14334622

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14334919

I don't remember saying it was a stalemate. Unless I'm just misremembering...

Originally posted by -Pr-
I don't remember saying it was a stalemate. Unless I'm just misremembering... I remember you saying stalemate. pr

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Shadow Cat, 10/10

Originally posted by Golgo13
Shadowcat drags him into Limbo. Easily.

Originally posted by 753
her powers can be used to cripple and probably kill superman. all other things considered she'd never get a majority or 1/10, really. If she plays deffensively, the most likely outcome here is a stalemate.


She doesn't start off intangible, guys.

And she doesn't have super speed.

The ONLY way anyone can argue Kitty wins, or even stalemates, is if they argue Superman's saddled with PIS, and doesn't just take her out with super breath, or by running up to her at super speed and giving her a finger flick KO, while Kitty fights a perfect game.

Kitty would straight up break his phucking neck.

Kitty would flawless victory Kal.

She wouldn't even need to use her powers.

Jake, sometimes it feels like we're the only ones who actually read comics.

http://mrwgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Dean-Winchester-Point-Wink-On-Supernatural.gif

Originally posted by cdtm
She doesn't start off intangible, guys.

And she doesn't have super speed.

The ONLY way anyone can argue Kitty wins, is if they argue Superman's saddled with PIS, and doesn't just take her out with super breath, or by running up to her at super speed and giving her a finger flick KO, while Kitty fights a perfect game. well he usually doesnt instablitz either. I'm not arguing she wins, in the ost you wuoted I said she couldnt even pull 1/10. I said she can force a stalemate by playing it deffensively.

interestingly, for a long time she was intangible by defult and had to concentrate to stay solid, but that was reversed later. when magneto pulled her back from space, she was completely intangible, couldnt even speak as she couldnt vibrate the air, but I think her powers went back to deafult solidty after she overcame that stage.

Originally posted by Mindset
She wouldn't even need to use her powers.

Exactly. I already pointed out that she is too fast and too strong for Superman.

I don't see why everyone is so caught on this intangibility non sense.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Exactly. I already pointed out that she is too fast and too strong for Superman.

I don't see why everyone is so caught on this intangibility non sense.

Originally posted by 753
well he usually doesnt instablitz either. I'm not arguing she wins, she can force a stalemate by playing it deffensively.

interestingly, for a long time she was intangible by defult and had to concentrate to stay solid, but that was reversed later. when magneto pulled her back from space, she was completely intangible, couldnt even speak as she couldnt vibrate the air, but I think her powers went back to deafult solidty after she overcame that stage.

True, a blitz is rare. But he'll go for the the kill, when he has to, and this is a fight to the KO.

Besides how often does Kitty go for these tactics blue's championing?

Of course, the heavyweights on Kitty's side came in late and locked up this argument with their far better logic, but I'm just saying..

I'm going to start reporting people lowballing Shadow Cat by saying she gets beaten by Superman.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Exactly. I already pointed out that she is too fast and too strong for Superman.

I don't see why everyone is so caught on this intangibility non sense.

She doesn't need to be fast. Ninjitsu training FTW.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Some people have issue with the idea of phasing being effective under any circumstances; re-read the thread if you don't believe me.

At any rate, I'll post the URL version of my list here for archive purposes, along with the excerpt I posted for Carver in the "Ownage" thread tonight.

Thank you for your time.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Interesting to note: Superman, having lesser healing ability than Kara (noted in Supergirl Volume 5 #13 if memory serves),
Hulk under Greg Pak (World War Hulk versus X-Men?),
or Thor via Mjolnir magic (Thor v1 #427-428)

can be effectively knocked out by this style of attack.





Superman (Gakidou)

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14337214
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14337217




Supergirl (Gakidou)

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13892194




Thor (Shadowcat)

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14337201




World War Hulk (Shadowcat)

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14334940





Superman (Fernus)

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14334622

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14334919

What and somewhat Fernus = kitty?

You do know that Superman went into a deep sleep thanks to Fernus mind controlling capabilities and this is why Superman could not move?

So now kitty does has those powers on the same level???

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/th_JLA85pg17_zps4ef69753.jpg http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/th_JLA86pg17_zps400519d3.jpg

As you can see on the first scan Fernus is sending Superman to sleep, that is why batman had to use the k salts to wake him up unless now in shock means also asleep?

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/th_JLA86pg08_zps87464e96.jpg http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/th_JLA86pg09_zps919a18eb.jpg

It's over, Rao. I think Kitty won.

Next up, Shadow Cat vs Iron Fist.

Originally posted by cdtm
It's over, Rao. I think Kitty won.

Next up, Shadow Cat vs Iron Fist.

DAMN IT!!!

OK, I was going to say kitty wins anyways!

ROFL@These last few pages

How about ultimate Shadowcat (the Shroud)?

Irrelevant as DCnU Supes can handle phasers.

Not to mention MM has a massive speed advantage over kitty (plus, the ability to sucker punch Kal).

Supes wins, blitzes her before she phases, it alarms me this topic went on so long. It does not say anything good. I'm just going to pretend this last 6-7 pages were of just people overwhelmingly agreeing Kitty is screwed here. That is the only way I'll maintain my sanity.

Originally posted by cdtm
So you're assuming Superman fights like an idiot, and Kitty fights at optimal capacity? No offense, but that's how it's sounding...]

Don't worry, this is a strange little trend people here do. Lowball one, overhype another. It's a weird balance. The mods here don't even seem to be on the same page. One says people will use speed period, the other says they will..except when they won't. It's like the bizarro world of comic debate forums.

Originally posted by Surtur
Supes wins, blitzes her before she phases, it alarms me this topic went on so long. It does not say anything good. I'm just going to pretend this last 6-7 pages were of just people overwhelmingly agreeing Kitty is screwed here. That is the only way I'll maintain my sanity.



Don't worry, this is a strange little trend people here do. Lowball one, overhype another. It's a weird balance. The mods here don't even seem to be on the same page. One says people will use speed period, the other says they will..except when they won't. It's like the bizarro world of comic debate forums.
Most of the posters were joking here. At least I hope so. You can never tell around here.




That's what makes it fun here. What's the point of a debate forum if everyone agrees with everyone else or have mods do the same? Settle in bro, you would like here if you don't listen too much from carver and rage.

Originally posted by abhilegend
That's what makes it fun here. What's the point of a debate forum if everyone agrees with everyone else or have mods do the same? Settle in bro, you would like here if you don't listen too much from carver and rage.

Dude, no, it's not about everyone agreeing. It is the manner in which you go about disagreeing. Not you, obviously, but others. Disagree, fine, but don't come into a thread spouting bullshit like "oh, another h1" and then saying nothing else. That just makes people look like a bunch of elitist dicks who can't contribute anything useful to the conversation. Go look around, go read a few threads. Notice how many times you see bullshit like "oh, another h1" and that is literally the only thing the person says?

There is no point if everyone agree's, true..likewise there is no point if people get pissy when people bring up some not so invalid arguments like "Superman will use his speed" and such things. But no, it's "how dare you say something logical! Total h1 right here guys!"

Great, another abhi.