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In a direct contest of strength, who wins?

Thor.

Stalemate or thor

Diana.

Diana.

New 53?

Thor

Its preboot diana.

Thor

Any particular reason why thor is winning here?

I put Thor with Captain Marvel,Superman, and BA strength wise IMO Wonder Woman is a notch below.

Thor.

Been done countless times in one form or another.

Originally posted by D-Block
I put Thor with Captain Marvel,Superman, and BA strength wise IMO Wonder Woman is a notch below.
Which he's not.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Thor.

Been done countless times in one form or another.
By which strength feats Thor is superior to diana?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Which he's not.
Your Opinion cool IMO he is.

Originally posted by D-Block
Your Opinion cool IMO he is.
Objectively he isn't. This isn't about opinion.

Thor

I just don't understand how people can put Thor in the same strength/durability class as Superman, and then still reason that they are equals. I assume this is what they're doing when they give him the win over Diana in pure strength.

Originally posted by curryman
I just don't understand how people can put Thor in the same strength/durability class as Superman, and then still reason that they are equals. I assume this is what they're doing when they give him the win over Diana in pure strength.
It baffles me too. Superman would crush Thor in any kind of strength/durability comparison. Even Byrne superman would crush thor in strength comparison.

Roughly even. If Diana's 'stronger than Hercules' gets brought up, she wins.

I can see Superman and Thor stalemating in an armwrestling contest. As for this thread, since I think Diana is up there with the strongest, I'm saying equals.

Thor

Originally posted by zopzop
Hercules has held his own vs Thor.
Hercules got beaten by Thor.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Hercules got beaten by Thor.
Which fight are you referring to?

Originally posted by zopzop
Which fight are you referring to?
Thorcules vs Hercor. Which Thor/Thorcules won.

Thor at his best operates on a level Hercules can't match. The two also managed to throw the Earth out of orbit with arm wrestling alone, which is a pretty considerable feat (cue feat dismissal).

And Wonder Woman being stronger than her universe's Hercules meaning that she's stronger than Marvel's Herc is also sketchy at best considering Marvel Herc's feat catalog is way more impressive. And Wonder Woman choking out Herc in JLA/Avengers isn't any sort of proof she'd do the same to Thor, who when push comes to shove, outperforms Hercules.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Thor at his best operates on a level Hercules can't match. The two also managed to throw the Earth out of orbit with arm wrestling alone, which is a pretty considerable feat (cue feat dismissal).
Wait, this armwrestling match?
http://s17.postimg.org/e2j1kiynf/1658587_thorvs.jpg
They never knocked anything out of orbit. It was just narrator hyperbole.


She handled him nicely though.
http://s10.postimg.org/s8k6cz4yt/P00079_zps6ae2b7f6.jpg
And Hercules and Thor have fought on pretty even terms before. In fact, didn't Herc almost choke out Thor till Thor electrocuted his ass?
http://s18.postimg.org/juo4dbzzp/557528_thor_blood_oath_4_02.jpg

Originally posted by zopzop

Wait, this armwrestling match?
http://s17.postimg.org/e2j1kiynf/1658587_thorvs.jpg
They never knocked anything out of orbit. It was just narrator hyperbole.


She handled him nicely though.
http://s10.postimg.org/s8k6cz4yt/P00079_zps6ae2b7f6.jpg
And Hercules and Thor have fought on pretty even terms before. In fact, didn't Herc almost choke out Thor till Thor electrocuted his ass?
http://s18.postimg.org/juo4dbzzp/557528_thor_blood_oath_4_02.jpg

How exactly is it hyperbole? I'm more inclined to believe narration than I am characters.

Yes, Diana, who thought Herc raped her mother and was out to whoop some ass got the better against an suspecting Hercules. Good feat, but it doesn't mean Diana > Thor.

Thor wasn't looking for a fight and Hercules was being a dumbass. That's also literally the only time Hercules has ever been attributed to being "slightly better" than Thor. It's obvious an all out Thor would be beyond Hercules at this point.

At best Diana = Thor. However, Thor's other powers kick in which give him the edge in this fight

edit

Originally posted by xJLxKing
At best Diana = Thor. However, Thor's other powers kick in which give him the edge in this fight
It's only a strength thread btw.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Thor.

Been done countless times in one form or another.

Originally posted by D-Block
I put Thor with Captain Marvel,Superman, and BA strength wise IMO Wonder Woman is a notch below.
This

Really all you get in these debates is both parties showing high feats, and dismissing each other...

Originally posted by pym-ftw
This

Really all you get in these debates is both parties showing high feats, and dismissing each other...
Let's see them feats!!

Hercules is a poor man's Thor at best. All of the strength, none of his power.

Thor's stronger than Diana though. Even if not by as much as I'd like him to be.

Oh and Bloodlusted Thor has broken out of a bloodlusted Hercules' grip before:

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsHercules21.jpg

Herc and He-man share the same stylist...

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Thor at his best operates on a level Hercules can't match. The two also managed to throw the Earth out of orbit with arm wrestling alone, which is a pretty considerable feat (cue feat dismissal).

And Wonder Woman being stronger than her universe's Hercules meaning that she's stronger than Marvel's Herc is also sketchy at best considering Marvel Herc's feat catalog is way more impressive. And Wonder Woman choking out Herc in JLA/Avengers isn't any sort of proof she'd do the same to Thor, who when push comes to shove, outperforms Hercules.
In strength Thor and Hercules are exact equal. You can cite as many high feats for thor as you like. Wouldn't change a thing.

Also that was a different planet and all they did was break a plateau. It was also a joke sub-story.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/Thor_400-50.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/Thor_400-51.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/Thor_400-52.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/Thor_400-53.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/Thor_400-54.jpgOriginally posted by Damborgson
Hercules is a poor man's Thor at best. All of the strength, none of his power.

Thor's stronger than Diana though. Even if not by as much as I'd like him to be.

Oh and Bloodlusted Thor has broken out of a bloodlusted Hercules' grip before:

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsHercules21.jpg
Herc has broken out of thor's grip before too. Its nothing special.

Originally posted by abhilegend
In strength Thor and Hercules are exact equal. You can cite as many high feats for thor as you like. Wouldn't change a thing.

So basically, you believe they're exact equals...but Thor's high end feats which clearly display him able to go to levels that Hercules doesn't count and wouldn't change a thing. Makes sense.

Thor

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
So basically, you believe they're exact equals...but Thor's high end feats which clearly display him able to go to levels that Hercules doesn't count and wouldn't change a thing. Makes sense.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
So basically, you believe they're exact equals...but Thor's high end feats which clearly display him able to go to levels that Hercules doesn't count and wouldn't change a thing. Makes sense.
Relative showings matter concerning peers. I can show feats that makes superman a lot stronger than captain marvel too, y'know. Also hercules tanked a punch from pre-retcon beyonder. Clearly he's far above Thor, right?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Relative showings matter concerning peers. I can show feats that makes superman a lot stronger than captain marvel too, y'know. Also hercules tanked a punch from pre-retcon beyonder. Clearly he's far above Thor, right? Thor is more powerful than Hercules.

Thor wins, clearly noticeably stronger.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Relative showings matter concerning peers. I can show feats that makes superman a lot stronger than captain marvel too, y'know. Also hercules tanked a punch from pre-retcon beyonder. Clearly he's far above Thor, right?

So I take it you believe that Captain Marvel is the exact equal of Superman since they are always peers or equals when in direct contest everything else be damned? That's an interesting stance based on some of your previous posts that I've read.

Speaking of relative showings, how about Thor stalemating Celestial Armor Gilgamesh (A significant power-up) in the same arc that regular Gilgamesh stalemated Hercules?

Or that Destroyer story where they both took him on and Thor looked better. There was also the Armak story where Thor stalemated him IIRC while Hercules was completely outclassed. Tbf to Hercules, he wasn't 100% against Armak because he fought the Destroyer or something previously (Don't remember the exact details as I don't have my comics with me).

Originally posted by abhilegend
Also that was a different planet and all they did was break a plateau. It was also a joke sub-story.

Does that somehow change the feat or the narration? It's not a cereal box comic or ad page you know.

Originally posted by abhilegend

Herc has broken out of thor's grip before too. Its nothing special.

It was a counter to the Blood Oath scan. Yes it is. Breaking out of a disadvantageous position with someone who has roughly equal strength to you is always impressive to normal human beings.

also, when has Hercules broken a grip like that from Thor?

Depends on how they break out of the hold. It's pretty clear that Thor used sheer strength in the scan you posted but sometimes character's use skill to outmaneuver their opponent such as flipping them over etc.

They've had some pretty intense fights in their day, lot of throwing tossing, etc so I'm sure Hercules has outmaneuvered Thor before but never just overpowered him like Thor did there that I know of. Which is what it was, he broke past Hercules' strength.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Thor wins, clearly noticeably stronger. Prove it. Any feat rivaling a weakened diana helping to move earth?



Not exactly. Superman was proven to be stronger in POS 46 than cap. That has never happened to thor and herc.

I have to see the scans for that.

In strength? I don't think so. Herc was weary since he pulled the manhattan island the same day.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Does that somehow change the feat or the narration? It's not a cereal box comic or ad page you know.
Its a joke story and the narration wasn't meant to be taken seriously. All they did on panel was break a plateau.Originally posted by Damborgson
It was a counter to the Blood Oath scan. Yes it is. Breaking out of a disadvantageous position with someone who has roughly equal strength to you is always impressive to normal human beings.

also, when has Hercules broken a grip like that from Thor?
In one of his fights with thor. Let me check my comics.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Relative showings matter concerning peers. I can show feats that makes superman a lot stronger than captain marvel too, y'know. Also hercules tanked a punch from pre-retcon beyonder. Clearly he's far above Thor, right?

Yes, I'm sure you could post some selective scans that suits you.

Thor has gone above and beyond Hercules in the same arcs or comics that they appear in.

Also lol @ bringing Superman up in another thread where the example used has nothing to do with the characters involved.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Prove it. Any feat rivaling a weakened diana helping to move earth?

Strength wise? Him moving the World Engine while such a shadow of himself is his greatest feat.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Not exactly. Superman was proven to be stronger in POS 46 than cap. That has never happened to thor and herc.

Scans?

Originally posted by abhilegend
I have to see the scans for that.

Thor vs. Hero:
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ThorvsHero1.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ThorvsHero2.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ThorvsHero3.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ThorvsHero4.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ThorvsHero5.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ThorvsHero6.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ThorvsHero7.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ThorvsHero8.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ThorvsHero10.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ThorvsHero11.jpg
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ThorvsHero12.jpg

Only scan I have of the Hercules/Gilgamesh fight but they are still stalemating after Odin ends the war (Don't have that scan):
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/RageOfOlympus/Thor/ThorvsHero13.jpg

Thor faced a much stronger version of Gilgamesh and was his equal.

Originally posted by abhilegend
In strength? I don't think so.

Thor vs. Destroyer:
http://s989.photobucket.com/user/RageOfOlympus/media/Thor/ThorvsDestroyer17.jpg.html
http://s989.photobucket.com/user/RageOfOlympus/media/Thor/ThorvsDestroyer18.jpg.html
http://s989.photobucket.com/user/RageOfOlympus/media/Thor/ThorvsDestroyer19.jpg.html
http://s989.photobucket.com/user/RageOfOlympus/media/Thor/ThorvsDestroyer20.jpg.html
http://s989.photobucket.com/user/RageOfOlympus/media/Thor/ThorvsDestroyer21.jpg.html
http://s989.photobucket.com/user/RageOfOlympus/media/Thor/ThorvsDestroyer22.jpg.html
http://s989.photobucket.com/user/RageOfOlympus/media/Thor/ThorvsDestroyer23.jpg.html
http://s989.photobucket.com/user/RageOfOlympus/media/Thor/ThorvsDestroyer24.jpg.html
http://s989.photobucket.com/user/RageOfOlympus/media/Thor/ThorvsDestroyer25.jpg.html
http://s989.photobucket.com/user/RageOfOlympus/media/Thor/ThorvsDestroyer26.jpg.html

Hercules vs. Destroyer:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/49/92987895.jpg/
http://s989.photobucket.com/user/RageOfOlympus/media/Thor/ThorvsDestroyer17.jpg.html

Thor came off as practically as strong as the Destroyer while Hercules was completely manhandled and was tossed around (I think I'm missing one scan where the Destroyer tosses Hercules after catching his punch but whatever).

Originally posted by abhilegend
Herc was weary since he pulled the manhattan island the same day.

Like I said, he wasn't a 100% but Armak completely no-sold him and left him flat on his ass with one blow compared to Thor. Even if Hercules at half strength it's still an impressive comparison.

Here Thor beats the shit out of Ulik (Amped a Thousand Times or whatever) when pissed:
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ThorvsUlik71.jpg
http://s779.photobucket.com/user/R-O-G/media/Thor/ThorvsUlik72.jpg.html
http://s779.photobucket.com/user/R-O-G/media/Thor/ThorvsUlik73.jpg.html
http://s779.photobucket.com/user/R-O-G/media/Thor/ThorvsUlik74.jpg.html
http://s779.photobucket.com/user/R-O-G/media/Thor/ThorvsUlik75.jpg.html

Hercules was completely wrecked, albeit he was depressed:
http://s779.photobucket.com/user/R-O-G/media/Thor/ThorvsUlik69.jpg.html
http://s779.photobucket.com/user/R-O-G/media/Thor/ThorvsUlik70.jpg.html

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Strength wise? Him moving the World Engine while such a shadow of himself is his greatest feat.
Wrong feat.

Him withstanding and then casually shrugging off the weight of half a planet is what rivals(possibly even surpasses) Diana's shared feat.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Yes, I'm sure you could post some selective scans that suits you.

Thor has gone above and beyond Hercules in the same arcs or comics that they appear in.

Also lol @ bringing Superman up in another thread where the example used has nothing to do with the characters involved.
Selective scans?

http://img806.imageshack.us/img806/9503/thorvsherculesjimannual.jpg


http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/3903/thorvsherculesmt22204cr.jpg

http://img857.imageshack.us/img857/1289/thorvsherculesmt22202.jpg

http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/7313/thorvsherculesmt40054.jpg

In strength? No.

What? Touched a nerve mentioning cap and superman, didn't I?

There was also their very first fight where Thor mentions he was holding back against Hercules and he could end it in one hit (Take that as you will):
http://s989.photobucket.com/user/RageOfOlympus/media/Thor/ThorvsHercules15.jpg.html
http://s989.photobucket.com/user/RageOfOlympus/media/Thor/ThorvsHercules16.jpg.html

Originally posted by abhilegend
Its a joke story and the narration wasn't meant to be taken seriously. All they did on panel was break a plateau.

Are you a psychic now that also happens to determine what does and doesn't count as canon?

If on panel-narration doesn't count, then we better get rid of a lot of feats.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Wrong feat.

Him withstanding and then casually shrugging off the weight of half a planet is what rivals(possibly even surpasses) Diana's shared feat.

I guess yea.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Selective scans?

http://img806.imageshack.us/img806/9503/thorvsherculesjimannual.jpg


http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/3903/thorvsherculesmt22204cr.jpg

http://img857.imageshack.us/img857/1289/thorvsherculesmt22202.jpg

http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/7313/thorvsherculesmt40054.jpg

In strength? No.

What? Touched a nerve mentioning cap and superman, didn't I?

No one is denying that Hercules and Thor are equal like 99% of the time but there is that 1% of the time that Thor seems to have a physically higher threshold then Hercules that he can push himself too.

Also, why are even discussing Hercules in a Wonder Woman thread? Only an idiot thinks that Diana being stronger then DC Hercules translates into her being stronger then Marvel Hercules and then by extension Thor.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Selective scans?

http://img806.imageshack.us/img806/9503/thorvsherculesjimannual.jpg


http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/3903/thorvsherculesmt22204cr.jpg

http://img857.imageshack.us/img857/1289/thorvsherculesmt22202.jpg

http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/7313/thorvsherculesmt40054.jpg

In strength? No.

What? Touched a nerve mentioning cap and superman, didn't I?

Those scans depict them as equals in strength, yes. There are also examples where Thor can and has operate on a level than Hercules can't, a hell of a lot more than Hercules being better than Thor at anything. If you (or more importantly, Marvel) had to choose who ultimately edges out the other, the answer is Thor.

The only nerve you've touched is your incessant need to drag the S shield in pretty much every thread ever to make irrelevant off topic examples. You've cemented your gimmick more than enough on KMC. There's no reason to keep driving the point home.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Also, why are even discussing Hercules in a Wonder Woman thread? Only an idiot thinks that Diana being stronger then DC Hercules translates into her being stronger then Marvel Hercules and then by extension Thor.

Also, this.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Strength wise? Him moving the World Engine while such a shadow of himself is his greatest feat. Unquantifiable. Diana along with superman slowing down spectre shits on that.



Cap stacking stamina of atlas on strength of hercules stalemated superman. One of two stalemates they have in strength comparison.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/th_capsupesarm2a.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/th_capsupesarm2b.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/th_capsupesarm2c.jpg



Not much evidence there.



Too short of a fight with hercules and herc didn't know the destroyer of what it was.



Not applicable.

Not applicable.

Was kinda wondering where the Herc vs Thor comparison was coming from...

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Was kinda wondering where the Herc vs Thor comparison was coming from...
From Herc vs Diana, which itself comes from a crossover...

Originally posted by abhilegend

In one of his fights with thor.
I would hope so...

Originally posted by abhilegend
Let me check my comics.

Ok, I'll wait.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
From Herc vs Diana, which itself comes from a crossover...

That's not allowed in forums, tho. Otherwise, Surfer completely dominate-pwning Orion would be viable, too.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Cap stacking stamina of atlas on strength of hercules stalemated superman. One of two stalemates they have in strength comparison.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/th_capsupesarm2a.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/th_capsupesarm2b.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/th_capsupesarm2c.jpg

I never understood how this feat demeans Cap or somehow makes him weaker than Superman. In all their conflicts, however brief, Cap has never explicitly stacked Atlas' strength, not his stamina, with Hercules' own. Hell, he's never ever been portrayed as being able to call upon Atlas' strength before then nor has he done it since. If anything, it seems like Ordway was using stamina and strength interchangeably vocabulary wise.

And if he wasn't and Cap does possess the ability to use Atlas' strength in addition to his stamina...so? It just means that Cap using the totality of the Power of Shazam is able to match Superman's strength directly.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
There was also their very first fight where Thor mentions he was holding back against Hercules and he could end it in one hit (Take that as you will):
http://s989.photobucket.com/user/RageOfOlympus/media/Thor/ThorvsHercules15.jpg.html
http://s989.photobucket.com/user/RageOfOlympus/media/Thor/ThorvsHercules16.jpg.html



Are you a psychic now that also happens to determine what does and doesn't count as canon?

If on panel-narration doesn't count, then we better get rid of a lot of feats.
Hyperbolish and jokish narration don't count.Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
No one is denying that Hercules and Thor are equal like 99% of the time but there is that 1% of the time that Thor seems to have a physically higher threshold then Hercules that he can push himself too.

Also, why are even discussing Hercules in a Wonder Woman thread? Only an idiot thinks that Diana being stronger then DC Hercules translates into her being stronger then Marvel Hercules and then by extension Thor.
Like in Blood Oath?Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Those scans depict them as equals in strength, yes. There are also examples where Thor can and has operate on a level than Hercules can't, a hell of a lot more than Hercules being better than Thor at anything. If you (or more importantly, Marvel) had to choose who ultimately edges out the other, the answer is Thor.

The only nerve you've touched is your incessant need to drag the S shield in pretty much every thread ever to make irrelevant off topic examples. You've cemented your gimmick more than enough on KMC. There's no reason to keep driving the point home.
Blood Oath disagrees.

Also LOL @ this bitching. Superman/Cap have the same dynamic as Thor/Herc. One has lots of feats that others don't but they are showed to be peers if not equals whenever they meet. that's why I brought up superman AND cap. Your insecurities are showing Jake.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Unquantifiable. Diana along with superman slowing down spectre shits on that.

How do you quantify Diana helping moving the Earth with 3 other people, especially since one of the guys has a notable strength advantage over her?

Well Hercules and Thor were generating enough force to knock a planet out of orbit and Thor resisted Kang dropping the weight of half a world on him as well.

I don't really see how.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Cap stacking stamina of atlas on strength of hercules stalemated superman. One of two stalemates they have in strength comparison.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/th_capsupesarm2a.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/th_capsupesarm2b.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/th_capsupesarm2c.jpg

Not much evidence there.

Too short of a fight with hercules and herc didn't know the destroyer of what it was.

Not applicable.

Not applicable.



None of the evidence I posted counts but Captain Marvel using the Stamina of Atlas, one of his inherit powers, is evidence that Superman is stronger. I'm sure Superman is also faster if he doesn't use the Speed of Mercury.

That was more then sufficient evidence indicating Thor's potential superiority to the Olympian. If you don't want to accept it, that's your problem.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
It just means that Cap using the totality of the Power of Shazam is able to match Superman's strength directly.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Hyperbolish and jokish narration don't count.
Like in Blood Oath?
Blood Oath disagrees.

Also LOL @ this bitching. Superman/Cap have the same dynamic as Thor/Herc. One has lots of feats that others don't but they are showed to be peers if not equals whenever they meet. that's why I brought up superman AND cap. Your insecurities are showing Jake.

Who are you to deny on panel narration? I could see if this was Thor or Hercules boasting while hopped up on mead, but it's not. The intent was clearly there. It being humorous doesn't detract from the feat and basically writing it off as it not counting is ridiculous.

Yes, Blood Oath is pretty much the only time where Hercules is ever portrayed as being slightly superior Thor. Thor's got multiple instances where in direct comparison, he outperforms Hercules' or gets the better of him.

Superman and Captain Marvel have nothing to do with this discussion, at least not how you're mentioning them. If you were citing feats of theirs involving Wonder Woman, the character you're actively championing against Thor in this original thread idea you've cooked up, okay. But you're not and you're basically just bringing up Superman because...well, because he's Superman and you're you. Not sure how I'm insecure as I don't constantly drag my favorite characters into threads they're not mentioned in, a part of, or use them in examples that hold no real merit to the topic at hand.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I never understood how this feat demeans Cap or somehow makes him weaker than Superman. In all their conflicts, however brief, Cap has never explicitly stacked Atlas' strength, not his stamina, with Hercules' own. Hell, he's never ever been portrayed as being able to call upon Atlas' strength before then nor has he done it since. If anything, it seems like Ordway was using stamina and strength interchangeably vocabulary wise.

And if he wasn't and Cap does possess the ability to use Atlas' strength in addition to his stamina...so? It just means that Cap using the totality of the Power of Shazam is able to match Superman's strength directly.
He has only one other stalemate with superman and that was off panel. Cap amping his strength was equal to superman in strength and that absolutely means whenever he doesn't uses it, he is weaker than superman.

Ordway also wrote an all out superman killing cap, flash, diana, hal, supergirl and booster gold as shown by Kismet as a direct future if superman let go of his humanity, superman restraining blaze while she choked adam with one hand. He absolutely wrote cap as weaker than superman.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Hyperbolish and jokish narration don't count.

Says you? The arrogance of this guy. Is this some inherit trait that most Superman fans posses?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Like in Blood Oath?

I thought you understood the difference between strength and skill?

Originally posted by Nibedicus
That's not allowed in forums, tho. Otherwise, Surfer completely dominate-pwning Orion would be viable, too.
It's also being based off the idea that Marvel Herc==DC Herc, despite the notable lack of evidence to prove such a thing...

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Well Hercules and Thor were generating enough force to knock a planet out of orbit and Thor resisted Kang dropping the weight of half a world on him as well.
These feats are way more quantifiable than Diana's feat as well, since in the DC earth case, one of her helpers is supposed to be considerably stronger than her, while the other used his shapeshifting powers to generate additional leverage and muscle for helping move the Earth.

On the contrary, exactly half the effort of the armwrestling feat is attributable to Thor, while the Cobalt force feat speaks for itself. Clearly quantifiable, unlike Diana's case.

Originally posted by abhilegend
He has only one other stalemate with superman and that was off panel. Cap amping his strength was equal to superman in strength and that absolutely means whenever he doesn't uses it, he is weaker than superman.

Ordway also wrote an all out superman killing cap, flash, diana, hal, supergirl and booster gold as shown by Kismet as a direct future if superman let go of his humanity, superman restraining blaze while she choked adam with one hand. He absolutely wrote cap as weaker than superman.

He's stalemated Superman in arm wrestling when people who putting bets on them. He's also held his own against Superman more times than not.

And if he amped his strength due to the nature of his powers and how they work in unison with one another...it means what, exactly? He's not praying to the gods for extra power or flying to the source of his power or powering up like a DBZ character. In that singular scan in which Cap can apparently "stack" his attributes and even call upon secondary attributes such as Atlas' strength instead of his stamina, he can match Superman. He did it inherently and without any hoopla. Not sure how that's a strike against Cap at all if he can instantly will or focus himself to be as strong as Superman if he wants to.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Ordway also wrote an all out superman killing cap, flash, diana, hal, supergirl and booster gold as shown by Kismet as a direct future if superman let go of his humanity,

I like how my scans are inapplicable but he mentions a possible future as evidence. And Kismet even says she doesn't deal in probability:
http://s68.photobucket.com/user/panthergod/media/Superman/AdventuresOfSuperman494p20.jpg.html

But whatever, Superman.

Originally posted by abhilegend
superman restraining blaze while she choked adam with one hand.

Is Blaze not able to completely mess/weaken the abilities of the Marvel?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
How do you quantify Diana helping moving the Earth with 3 other people, especially since one of the guys has a notable strength advantage over her? She was weakened there. Even if she only moved 1/3 of earth, its a hell of a feat.

Hyperbole. That's comparable to diana moving 1/3 of earth while weakened. I don't see how that makes thor stronger.

Haha.



So let me get this straight, cap using stamina of atlas to amp his strength stalemates superman but he isn't weaker without amping? What kind of logic is that? If cap stalemates superman's speed by amping his speed with say power of zeus, he is absolutely slower without amping. I don't even know who would deny that besides thorbags.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
It's also being based off the idea that Marvel Herc==DC Herc, despite the notable lack of evidence to prove such a thing...

W/c is silly and the whole line of thought shud just be abandoned.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Says you? The arrogance of this guy. Is this some inherit trait that most Superman fans posses?


He thinks he can apply what he thinks counts and dismiss what he doesn't like.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Who are you to deny on panel narration? I could see if this was Thor or Hercules boasting while hopped up on mead, but it's not. The intent was clearly there. It being humorous doesn't detract from the feat and basically writing it off as it not counting is ridiculous.

Yes, Blood Oath is pretty much the only time where Hercules is ever portrayed as being slightly superior Thor. Thor's got multiple instances where in direct comparison, he outperforms Hercules' or gets the better of him.

Superman and Captain Marvel have nothing to do with this discussion, at least not how you're mentioning them. If you were citing feats of theirs involving Wonder Woman, the character you're actively championing against Thor in this original thread idea you've cooked up, okay. But you're not and you're basically just bringing up Superman because...well, because he's Superman and you're you. Not sure how I'm insecure as I don't constantly drag my favorite characters into threads they're not mentioned in, a part of, or use them in examples that hold no real merit to the topic at hand.
Hyperbolish and Jokish narration don't count. I can post narration saying that no force could stop one of superman's punches, doesn't mean its true.

Show examples then. Your words are not proof.

Whatever jake. Drop another essay, see if I care.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Even if she only moved 1/3 of earth, its a hell of a feat.
How do you know that it was 1/3rd of the Earth and not less? Superman is supposed to be a good deal stronger than her, and J'onn was using four arms, which means twice as much pulling power, and all of them seemed to be putting their full effort into it.

If we are to quantitatively analyze this feat, then it becomes clear that Diana on her own was moving less than 1/3rd of the Earth.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
He's stalemated Superman in arm wrestling when people who putting bets on them. He's also held his own against Superman more times than not.

And if he amped his strength due to the nature of his powers and how they work in unison with one another...it means what, exactly? He's not praying to the gods for extra power or flying to the source of his power or powering up like a DBZ character. In that singular scan in which Cap can apparently "stack" his attributes and even call upon secondary attributes such as Atlas' strength instead of his stamina, he can match Superman. He did it inherently and without any hoopla. Not sure how that's a strike against Cap at all if he can instantly will or focus himself to be as strong as Superman if he wants to.
Only one time and it was off panel. In only conclusive fight superman beat the shit out of him.

It means that without amping his strength with stamina of atlas, he's weaker than superman. Not hard to understand unless you're rage or jake.

Originally posted by abhilegend
She was weakened there. Even if she only moved 1/3 of earth, its a hell of a feat.

Hyperbole. That's comparable to diana moving 1/3 of earth while weakened. I don't see how that makes thor stronger.

Weakened in what way? I don't remember this being mentioned.

How can you quantify she moved an exact 1/3 of the force when one of the guys was noticeably stronger then her? I'm just curious how can denounce something for being unquantifiable and spout this.

Maybe, but then again you just mentioned a panel describing them slowing the fall of Spectre who weighed as much as Eternity (A measure of time mind you) so you're in no position to judge.

Frankly, it's more impressive assuming Kang used Earth as a reference point. The World Engine is also more impressive, especially since the Cosmic Axis has been revealed to be a nexus to the infinite Multiverse.


Originally posted by abhilegend
Haha.


What's funny?

Originally posted by abhilegend
So let me get this straight, cap using stamina of atlas to amp his strength stalemates superman but he isn't weaker without amping? What kind of logic is that? If cap stalemates superman's speed by amping his speed with say power of zeus, he is absolutely slower without amping. I don't even know who would deny that besides thorbags.

I'm just wondering if the powers of Atlas aren'tacting in conjunction with it and providing him with his endurance to match Superman? Isn't that what Atlas does, provide his Stamina or has that changed?

But if Captain Marvel is slightly weaker then Superman with just the strength of Hercules, it's fine, no different then Superman tapping into his own deeper reserves.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Only one time and it was off panel. In only conclusive fight superman beat the shit out of him.

It means that without amping his strength with stamina of atlas, he's weaker than superman. Not hard to understand unless you're rage or jake. I agree with them.

Stalemates Superman in strength. Does it eat you alive ?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
when one of the guys was noticeably stronger then her?
Don't forget that her other ally(who is around her level in terms of strength) also used his shapeshifting powers to amp his leverage/pulling power by generating 2 extra arms.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Hyperbolish and Jokish narration don't count.

Why is it hyperbole and why does it being humorous detract from the feat itself? Just sounds like you're dismissing it to dismiss it in a thread you've cooked up for whatever reason.

Originally posted by abhilegend
I can post narration saying that no force could stop one of superman's punches, doesn't mean its true.

http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss225/OdinBorson/CMPunkWTF.gif

This can't be life. Abhi, Superman is not in this thread, to say nothing of how someone saying no force could stop Superman's punches =/= being able to toss the planet out of orbit. So unless you're dropping feats/instances of Superman as far as how they relate to Wonder Woman, the character you're pitting against Thor in the thread you made, I fail to see how he's relevant here. Geez, it's like anytime anyone says something you don't like, your reply is always along the lines of "Well, if you think that way, then that means Superman should be able to do this!" or "If we're using narration, than narration said Superman was unstoppable!". Not every thread is about big blue, man, and trying to make it such is silly to say the least.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Show examples then. Your words are not proof.

Examples have already been provided, examples you've decided to ignore or call inapplicable for...well, whatever reason suits you.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Whatever jake. Drop another essay, see if I care.

Not my fault you can't or don't want to read a thorough response to your arbirtary statements. I also wasn't aware my posts count as "essays". *shrug*

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Says you? The arrogance of this guy. Is this some inherit trait that most Superman fans posses?



I thought you understood the difference between strength and skill?
Its not arrogance, just stating facts.

What skill?Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I like how my scans are inapplicable but he mentions a possible future as evidence. And Kismet even says she doesn't deal in probability:
http://s68.photobucket.com/user/panthergod/media/Superman/AdventuresOfSuperman494p20.jpg.html

But whatever, Superman.



Is Blaze not able to completely mess/weaken the abilities of the Marvel?
A direct future which would've come to fruition if superman had let go of his humanity.

She dampens marvel's power, adam gets his powers through her like cap gets his powers through shazam.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Only one time and it was off panel. In only conclusive fight superman beat the shit out of him.

It means that without amping his strength with stamina of atlas, he's weaker than superman. Not hard to understand unless you're rage or jake.

What fight was that? Being amped by Eclipso?

It was the only time Cap has ever been show to use his powers to amp attributes with aspects of the gods they normally don't effect. And even so, even IF we assume that Cap can power stack...why does it matter? "Worst case scenario", he can instantly match Superman with his own power simply by willing himself to (which sounds more far fetched than simply being able to match him outright...especially considering that power stacking has never been shown before or since then).

Originally posted by abhilegend
Its not arrogance, just stating facts.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Its not arrogance, just stating facts.




No, you are not.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
How do you know that it was 1/3rd of the Earth and not less? Superman is supposed to be a good deal stronger than her, and J'onn was using four arms, which means twice as much pulling power, and all of them seemed to be putting their full effort into it.

If we are to quantitatively analyze this feat, then it becomes clear that Diana on her own was moving less than 1/3rd of the Earth.
J'onn growing two more arms don't makes him twice as strong and she is stronger than him. Its a safe guess she was pulling more weight than J'onn.

Originally posted by abhilegend
J'onn growing two more arms don't makes him twice as strong and she is stronger than him. Its a safe guess she was pulling more weight than J'onn. So more arms doesn't mean you're stronger ?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Its not arrogance, just stating facts.

What skill?

So what you decide counts and doesn't is fact? Jesus.

Did you miss the part where Hercules outmaneuvered/outfought Thor in comparison to Thor directly outperforming Hercules strength wise?

Originally posted by abhilegend
A direct future which would've come to fruition if superman had let go of his humanity.

She dampens marvel's power, adam gets his powers through her like cap gets his powers through shazam.

She doesn't deal in probability but whatever bro, post possible hallucinations while ignoring what's really happened.

So Blaze is able to mess with and depower the powers of Shazam with her presence, has even been used as a conduit to empower Adam but you think her choking Adam is a good example of comparative strength?

Jesus, let's post a scan of Captain Marvel owning Kryptonite Man beside a scan of Kryptonite Man owning Superman and call the Mightiest Mortal stronger.

Good luck guys, I'm off to bed not wasting anymore time here.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
So what you decide counts and doesn't is fact? Jesus.

Did you miss the part where Hercules outmaneuvered/outfought Thor in comparison to Thor directly outperforming Hercules strength wise?



She doesn't deal in probability but whatever bro, post possible hallucinations while ignoring what's really happened.

So Blaze is able to mess with and depower the powers of Shazam with her presence, has even been used as a conduit to empower Adam but you think her choking Adam is a good example of comparative strength?

Jesus, let's post a scan of Captain Marvel owning Kryptonite Man beside a scan of Kryptonite Man owning Superman and call the Mightiest Mortal stronger.

Good luck guys, I'm off to bed not wasting anymore time here.

Originally posted by abhilegend
J'onn growing two more arms don't makes him twice as strong and she is stronger than him. Its a safe guess she was pulling more weight than J'onn.
How do you reckon that's possible? J'onn created additional muscle in the form of 2 more arms to help him pull the Earth, so clearly he was applying twice as much pulling power as he would in a regular humanoid form. Even if she's stronger than him(which she's not), the difference isn't that great and they are a lot closer than you'd like to think. Not to mention, that going by your claim that she was weakened in that instance, clearly makes it unsafe to presume she was pulling as much, let alone more weight than him.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Weakened in what way? I don't remember this being mentioned.

It was stated by the witch that they would never regain their strength in time.

Its a safe bet since she is stronger than J'onn.

Which was described as being as extremely heavy. Time doesn't has any weight.

Was earth mentioned anywhere in that feat? It isn't.




Your reasoning.



He directly said that he was amping his strength. Glad we settled that.

Isn't Superman strong enough to pull the planet by himself (or at least most of it) in the past? Doesn't that kinda make the WW helping Superman and J'onn pull the planet "feat" a bit meh?

He did pull the earth with Hal's construct, so yeah.

Can be easily explained with Superman getting stronger in later arcs. Which happened first?

@Rage: In modern day planetary mass determinations, Earth is used as a standard for comparing the mass of extrasolar planets(most of which are supposed to be bigger than Earth). Plus, Earth itself is supposed to be a relatively small planet.

Based on this, it's safe to assume that the planet which Kang referred to in question, must have been the same size as Earth.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Why is it hyperbole and why does it being humorous detract from the feat itself? Just sounds like you're dismissing it to dismiss it in a thread you've cooked up for whatever reason. Because it was directly contradicted by what was shown on panel. Joke narration doesn't count as always.


Another essay? I like when you ***** anytime I just mention superman. Its ok jake, I know you don't like him but try to reamain objective. Of course this thread isn't about him, just because I brought up an example about him doesn't mean I'm turning this into a superman thread. Both of examples contradict on panel showings and are thus hyperbole. Not hard to understand.



No, because they lack context. None by you though as expected.

mmm



I don't read essays. Never did.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Isn't Superman strong enough to pull the planet by himself (or at least most of it) in the past? Doesn't that kinda make the WW helping Superman and J'onn pull the planet "feat" a bit meh?
Yep. It would be reasonable to assume that Superman performed the lion's share of the feat, with the remaining labor equally divided between Jonn and Diana. Jonn getting the bigger share of it if we are to believe that Diana had indeed been weakened in that arc.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
How do you reckon that's possible? J'onn created additional muscle in the form of 2 more arms to help him pull the Earth, so clearly he was applying twice as much pulling power as he would in a regular humanoid form. Even if she's stronger than him(which she's not), the difference isn't that great and they are a lot closer than you'd like to think. Not to mention, that going by your claim that she was weakened in that instance, clearly makes it unsafe to presume she was pulling as much, let alone more weight than him.
Comics. Just because J'onn grows two more arms doesn't mean he grows twice as strong. That's asinine. Diana has directly outmuscled and manhandled J'onn.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
So what you decide counts and doesn't is fact? Jesus. Not really.

Herc has broken thor's grip too. That's not exclusive to thor.

That was a direct future.

She was able to dampen cap's powers. That has nothing to do with adam since he doesn't have the same power source as cap.

You got it all wrong as a thorbag would.

Good night.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Comics. Just because J'onn grows two more arms doesn't mean he grows twice as strong. That's asinine. Diana has directly outmuscled and manhandled J'onn.
That's an insufficient explanation. You can't just scream "comics" when confronted with the logical fact that J'onn's pulling strength had been doubled due to the addition of an extra pair of arms, and therefore more muscle. Diana has outmuscled and manhandled PG as well before. Is that proof that she's stronger than her? Not to mention that J'onn has overwhelmed Diana(along with Orion and Barda) in the past as well, so your example means nothing.

Here is the scan where the witch says that they are weakened

http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/16018628_jla_75_-_kebbin_30.jpg

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
That's an insufficient explanation. You can't just scream "comics" when confronted with the logical fact that J'onn's pulling strength had been doubled due to the addition of an extra pair of arms, and therefore more muscle. Diana has outmuscled and manhandled PG as well before. Is that proof that she's stronger than her? Not to mention that J'onn has overwhelmed Diana(along with Orion and Barda) in the past as well, so your example means nothing.
Yes, it does. J'onn has never shown an increase in strength by growing a pair of other arms.

Not as she has done.

http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15927982_jla_scary_monsters_6_kebbin_15.jpg http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15927983_jla_scary_monsters_6_kebbin_16.jpg

Diana used her skills on PG. J'onn used his shapeshifting on her and Orion. Nothing as conclusive as a direct choking by one hand.

I wonder why the question of how much she actually pulled is still not answered?

Why did Jon even grow an extra pair of arms if it didn't serve a purpose?

He likes to show off.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yes, it does. J'onn has never shown an increase in strength by growing a pair of other arms.

Not as she has done.

http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15927982_jla_scary_monsters_6_kebbin_15.jpg http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/15927983_jla_scary_monsters_6_kebbin_16.jpg

Diana used her skills on PG. J'onn used his shapeshifting on her and Orion. Nothing as conclusive as a direct choking by one hand.
What's your proof of that? Logic dictates that two additional arms(additional amount of muscle) would augment his pulling power. That's what I am going to stick with, in regards to this feat.

You're using Scary Monsters, an arc in which Diana was transformed into a demonic creature, as definitive proof that Diana is stronger than J'onn? Really? As opposed to J'onn just straight up beating her, Orion and Barda in Martian Manhunter#7, this is quite flimsy evidence that she's his superior in strength.

Diana put her in a full nelson, that she was unable to break out of. That could only be the case if they were equal in strength or if PG was inferior.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
What's your proof of that? Logic dictates that two additional arms(additional amount of muscle) would augment his pulling power. That's what I am going to stick with, in regards to this feat.

You're using Scary Monsters, an arc in which Diana was transformed into a demonic creature, as definitive proof that Diana is stronger than J'onn? Really? As opposed to J'onn just straight up beating her, Orion and Barda in Martian Manhunter#7, this is quite flimsy evidence that she's his superior in strength.

Diana put her in a full nelson, that she was unable to break out of. That could only be the case if they were equal in strength or if PG was inferior.

ABHI logic.

^abhilogic is still >>>>> than carterlogic

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
^abhilogic is still >>>>> than carterlogic

I agree, Carter logic is jacked up but Carver logic, can't get any better than that.

^Carverlogic is even lower on the layer of shit that is carterlogic.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
^Carverlogic is even lower on the layer of shit that is carterlogic.

One day, Carverlogic will rub off on you and you'll see the light. Just be patient my friend.

^Let's hope that I am not that unfortunate.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
What's your proof of that? Logic dictates that two additional arms(additional amount of muscle) would augment his pulling power. That's what I am going to stick with, in regards to this feat.

You're using Scary Monsters, an arc in which Diana was transformed into a demonic creature, as definitive proof that Diana is stronger than J'onn? Really? As opposed to J'onn just straight up beating her, Orion and Barda in Martian Manhunter#7, this is quite flimsy evidence that she's his superior in strength.

Diana put her in a full nelson, that she was unable to break out of. That could only be the case if they were equal in strength or if PG was inferior.
His showings with several arms where he didn't showed any strength increase.

Yes, she was transformed. She was also being manhandled by batman and was actually shown to be getting weaker with transformation.

http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/16018701_jla_-_scary_monsters_5_kebbin_14.jpg

Like I said, he used his shapeshifting to do that. Not just strength.

In the same issue, diana said that PG was AT LEAST as strong as her. Not breaking through a nelson doesn't mean weaker or as strong as weaker characters have put stronger characters in nelsons.

For a Thor vs WW, I'm seeing very little WW information.

Going solely by feats on this thread, Thor wins decisively.

No argument is being made for WW really winning this battle against Thor directly.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
^Let's hope that I am not that unfortunate.

Godkiller, stop trolling Carter.

Originally posted by abhilegend
His showings with several arms where he didn't showed any strength increase.

Yes, she was transformed. She was also being manhandled by batman and was actually shown to be getting weaker with transformation.

http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/16018701_jla_-_scary_monsters_5_kebbin_14.jpg

Like I said, he used his shapeshifting to do that. Not just strength.

In the same issue, diana said that PG was AT LEAST as strong as her. Not breaking through a nelson doesn't mean weaker or as strong as weaker characters have put stronger characters in nelsons.
What showings? In this one, he clearly utilized twice as much pulling power because of the additional pair of arms, and the additional muscle that they granted.

That was her in the process of getting transformed. Afterall, she had been "infected" by those evil creatures. And lol at bringing up Batman and her getting supposedly weakened, because that makes her beating up J'onn PIS.

Going by your logic, his shapeshifting didn't increase his strength, so he restrained Diana with ONE arm in this scan:
http://i1160.photobucket.com/albums/q487/TheGodKiller666/th_jonn_pwns_jla_zps1f599a57.png

Except that stronger persons ARE capable of breaking a full nelson. Since PG was unable to, therefore that means they were equals in strength, going by Diana's commentary.

Originally posted by Bentley
Godkiller, stop trolling Carter.


Reported for backseat modding.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
What showings? In this one, he clearly utilized twice as much pulling power because of the additional pair of arms, and the additional muscle that they granted.

That was her in the process of getting transformed. Afterall, she had been "infected" by those evil creatures. And lol at bringing up Batman and her getting supposedly weakened, because that makes her beating up J'onn PIS.

Going by your logic, his shapeshifting didn't increase his strength, so he restrained Diana with ONE arm in this scan:
http://i1160.photobucket.com/albums/q487/TheGodKiller666/th_jonn_pwns_jla_zps1f599a57.png

Except that stronger persons ARE capable of breaking a full nelson. Since PG was unable to, therefore that means they were equals in strength, going by Diana's commentary.
Against Despero, Kanto, Kalibak and several others.

It was made clear that her transformations made her weaker. Read the scan again.

Don't cry PIS now.

That's shapeshifting at work. Ostrander used it in that series a lot.

There are several instances in comics where stronger characters can't break nelsons by weaker character. I don't see what's PG has to do with this thread though.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Against Despero, Kanto, Kalibak and several others.

It was made clear that her transformations made her weaker. Read the scan again.

Don't cry PIS now.

That's shapeshifting at work. Ostrander used it in that series a lot.

There are several instances in comics where stronger characters can't break nelsons by weaker character. I don't see what's PG has to do with this thread though.
Which doesn't disprove the fact that J'onn's pulling power was more or less doubled when he spouted 2 additional arms to help Superman and WW move Earth.

She only appeared to be weakening during the process of her transformation itself. Once she was transformed, it was clear that she was more formidable than usual.

You're the one whose logic is forcing us to deem this feat as PIS.

He restrained her physically, with a paritally morphed arm. Since him spouting additional arms doesn't augment his strength(according to you), that applies to his shapeshifting abilities in general. Clearly, he restrained her with his base strength alone.

There are plenty of examples in comics of characters choking stronger/equally strong characters without the victim being able to do anything about it. PG is as relevant to this thread as Superman, which is to say, not at all.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Which doesn't disprove the fact that J'onn's pulling power was more or less doubled when he spouted 2 additional arms to help Superman and WW move Earth.


If you're going to make that argument then you need to be able to answer the following questions:

-what is his base pulling power compared to the others?
-did he have to create extra arms to be able to pull close to or as much as the others?
-is it possible he created extra arms for better grip instead of more strength?
-since his strength more or less doubles according to you, and his base is more or less around superman and wonder woman, couldn't he just grow 6 arms or 8 and just pull it on his own?

you need to prove your assumption with facts, or it becomes nothing more than opinion.

Why is Martian Manhunter being discussed in this thread?

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Which doesn't disprove the fact that J'onn's pulling power was more or less doubled when he spouted 2 additional arms to help Superman and WW move Earth.

She only appeared to be weakening during the process of her transformation itself. Once she was transformed, it was clear that she was more formidable than usual.

You're the one whose logic is forcing us to deem this feat as PIS.

He restrained her physically, with a paritally morphed arm. Since him spouting additional arms doesn't augment his strength(according to you), that applies to his shapeshifting abilities in general. Clearly, he restrained her with his base strength alone.

There are plenty of examples in comics of characters choking stronger/equally strong characters without the victim being able to do anything about it. PG is as relevant to this thread as Superman, which is to say, not at all.
Your proof on that? That way he would've been pulling more weight than superman since I doubt he's twice as strong as J'onn.

It was clear that the transformation itself weakened her. Your proof of her being more formidable?

Nope.

I said creating other arms doesn't increase his strength, not that strength+shapeshifting couldn't restrain her.

Name one of those instances.

So wut are her best strength feats again??

Although it makes sense that John should have increase in strength if he grows an extra arm or two, I don't think that was ever the intention. Going by that intention, John is not only stronger then Diana, but by growing extra arms/limbs he can easily overpower anyone.

The way I see it, his ability to change shape, or grow limbs doesn't increase his strength. If he were to transform into a dragon, he wont gain strength because of the increase in mass or otherwise.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Why is Martian Manhunter being discussed in this thread?

From what i understand something about being equal to WW in strength.

I just don't understand how that's at all relevant to this thread.

I mean, if I'm missing something, by all means.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Isn't Superman strong enough to pull the planet by himself (or at least most of it) in the past? Doesn't that kinda make the WW helping Superman and J'onn pull the planet "feat" a bit meh?

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
So wut are her best strength feats again??

Superman has pulled the Earth with less "help", yes.

Helping a planet puller pull a planet is kinda a "non-feat" isn't it?

It just makes it hard to quantify how much effort each is putting in, especially when all three aren't equal in strength.

Originally posted by -Pr-
It just makes it hard to quantify how much effort each is putting in, especially when all three aren't equal in strength.

Exactly. A "non-feat".

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
So wut are her best strength feats again??
Slowing spectre down with superman, helping to move earth while weakened, helping to move the moon, lifting the city sized heavenly chariot etc.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Exactly. A "non-feat".
All three of them were weakened there.

Originally posted by abhilegend
All three of them were weakened there.

Soooo, what you're saying is Superman's MAX strength is planetary?

Edit. Can you show the rest of the "weakened" scan or point me where I can DL or find it? Would like to gauge context.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Your proof on that? That way he would've been pulling more weight than superman since I doubt he's twice as strong as J'onn.

It was clear that the transformation itself weakened her. Your proof of her being more formidable?

Nope.

I said creating other arms doesn't increase his strength, not that strength+shapeshifting couldn't restrain her.

Name one of those instances.
My proof is basic logic. Superman is much stronger than him, so even 2 additional arms should only be an insignificant reduction in their strength gap.

Nope. It was during the process of transformation that she appeared to be weakening. Once her transformation completed, it was clear that she wasn't weakened. You're reading too much into a few panels that are irrelevant to this debate. Her strutting about like nothing happened, even while manhandling Plastic Man and J'onn, and requiring Kishana's plot device heat power and J'onn's martian vision to defeat her, is proof that post-transformation she showed absolutely no sign of weakness. If you want, I can get a mod ruling on this matter. Either ways, using Scary Monsters to prove that Diana is J'onn's superior in terms of strength is fairly inconclusive, because of the context involved in said showing.

Yes.

Creating other arms is shapeshifting. If you believe that shapeshifting augmented his strength enough to restrain her, then you concede that him spouting 2 additional arms(which is also shapeshifting) to help Superman and Wonder Woman move planet Earth added to his base strength as well. You can't have it both ways.

Do you read comics? If you do, then you don't need me to spoonfeed you.

Also, from what the Miss ugly is saying "You'll never regain your strength in time to stop me", it implies that they're regaining their strength and only really need enough time to do it. The page where they pull the planet:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/133770/2849918- 1530154_superman__wonder_woman__and_martian_pullin
g_the_earth_super.jpg

Is 11 pages after she mentioned that they need time to recover. Seeing as they ALSO had the time to have Batman compute for stresses of the Earth pull AND circle the planet with WW's lasso, wouldn't it stand to reason that they've already fully recovered by then?

That is, unless we're talking about a different comic?

Originally posted by Sh3nG L0nG
If you're going to make that argument then you need to be able to answer the following questions:

-what is his base pulling power compared to the others?
-did he have to create extra arms to be able to pull close to or as much as the others?
-is it possible he created extra arms for better grip instead of more strength?
-since his strength more or less doubles according to you, and his base is more or less around superman and wonder woman, couldn't he just grow 6 arms or 8 and just pull it on his own?

you need to prove your assumption with facts, or it becomes nothing more than opinion.

-It is inferior to Superman, and it would appear that it is roughly even with Diana's.
-Why did they use Diana's lasso to pull Earth in that scene? They could have easily used a GL construct instead as a harness(because it has been done on-panel). One simple word: plot.
-Your argument with the grip might be valid if he were not shown on-panel to be exerting full effort from all 4 of his arms.
-Couldn't the heroes just get someone like Fate to teleport the planet out of danger? Couldn't Superman just use the Miracle Machine to end every threat to Earth ever? Couldn't aliens start invading our world tomorrow? We can throw as many "couldn't"s as we like, at the end of the interpretation entirely rests on the plot of the story, and the writer intent. Maybe the writer thought that 4 was a better number than 6 or 8. Nobody knows and nobody cares.

My assumption is proven by simple logic, and this board is heavily dominated by opinions.

GK: Isn't the whole MM "growing arms etc" logic all moot? Superman is a planet puller all on his lonesome. WW is helping someone who can already pull planets on his own pull a planet.

It's a "non-feat".

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Exactly. A "non-feat".

Originally posted by Nibedicus
GK: Isn't the whole MM "growing arms etc" logic all moot? Superman is a planet puller all on his lonesome. WW is helping someone who can already pull planets on his own pull a planet.

It's a "non-feat".
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Yep. It would be reasonable to assume that Superman performed the lion's share of the feat, with the remaining labor equally divided between Jonn and Diana. Jonn getting the bigger share of it if we are to believe that Diana had indeed been weakened in that arc.

I know you're aware of the argument. I'm just wondering about why even bother discussing contribution-levels between MM and WW when the primary foundation of the "feat" itself is kinda non-existent.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
I know you're aware of the argument. I'm just wondering about why even bother discussing contribution-levels between MM and WW when the primary foundation of the "feat" itself is kinda non-existent.
Just debating with abhi because I have nothing better to do for the moment. I'll probably be awake all night, starting my prep for GRE, so using my spare time to chat shit online.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
-It is inferior to Superman, and it would appear that it is roughly even with Diana's. Proof that even with four hands he was equal to diana if you believe it made him stronger?
Kyle was dead at that time.
And that didn't made him pull harder than usual two hands.

facepalm
You are now going full carver mode here. Your theory wouldn't hold even slightest scrutiny.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Slowing spectre down with superman, helping to move earth while weakened, helping to move the moon, lifting the city sized heavenly chariot etc.
And here I thought u had some definitive proof that she is a lot stronger than blondie..

I'm surprised since u've been on this propaganda trip for quite a while, bringing up this same subject on multiple threads.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
My proof is basic logic. Superman is much stronger than him, so even 2 additional arms should only be an insignificant reduction in their strength gap. Is superman twice as strong as J'onn?

Never mentioned that anywhere. You are throwing things in dark and hoping something sticks. That proves she is stronger than J'onn while weakened by on panel proof. You are using that scene to show that Diana was amped when the only description of the transformation explitly states that she grows weaker by transformation. Twisting much? Go ahead. Get a mod ruling on this. I provided all the context there is to this feat.

No.

Creating arms to pull earth isn't the same as using shapeshifting as a tool to restrain someone. Plastic man has done that to restrain some fairly strong beings like bizzaro. I wouldn't say he's stronger than them.

More than you can imagine. You're the one who's going to be spoonfed here by the looks of things.