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This is just a test to see the response. I'm merely curious about what you'll all say. mmm

Vitiate has a full day of prep and the fight occurs in his throne room. His opponent is anyone in Star Wars barring stupid responses like that sentient mountain. They do not have prep. Only one person allowed per fight.

With any real prep, there isn't anyone he can't defeat.

He will defeat anybody.

Originally posted by Nephthys
This is just a test to see the response. I'm merely curious about what you'll all say. mmm

Vitiate has a full day of prep and the fight occurs in his throne room. His opponent is anyone in Star Wars barring stupid responses like that sentient mountain. They do not have prep. Only one person allowed per fight.

Only a day?

I'd say any top tier could still likely pose a serious threat.

He'll win any fight.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Only a day?

I'd say any top tier could still likely pose a serious threat.
He is already a godlike avatar of the dark side.

With preparation, he is going to terminate anybody.

He once swiftly destroyed an entire Dark Council in a single blow when he learned about its treachery. This is different event from the one mentioned in the novel.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
He is already a godlike avatar of the dark side.
Okay, so he's got a ton of hyperbole on his side.


Even Darth Nihilus?



I have read that part of the Revan novel. There's no proof the Emperor himself killed them. With an army of his royal guards in his palace there is no way to prove that he solo'd the council.

How long does it take to prep those rituals of his?

I think Legends referring to when he killed an entire Dark Council instantly in a flash of light.

LOL@Hyperbole. Yoda, you continue to be a trip.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Okay, so he's got a ton of hyperbole on his side.
No, you are clueless about his power.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Even Darth Nihilus?
Yes. You think Darth Nihilus cannot be destroyed? He is flesh and blood after-all.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
I have read that part of the Revan novel. There's no proof the Emperor himself killed them. With an army of his royal guards in his palace there is no way to prove that he solo'd the council.

How long does it take to prep those rituals of his?
Genius, I am talking about a different event. And it wasn't a ritual. Do not make baseless assumptions.

As far as the event in the novel is concerned, Scourge confirmed that Vitiate personally killed all of those 9 Dark Councilors. From where did you get the idea of a ritual? Seriously, some of you are guys have exceeded the stage of being delusional.

When Vitiate is prepared, he is unstoppable.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Yes. You think Darth Nihilus cannot be destroyed? He is flesh and blood after-all.


Er......

Originally posted by Nephthys
Er......
He is human. Just that he is a wound in the Force but he isn't invincible.

See the Dark Council purge example to understand how fast and effective Vitiate can respond when he is prepared.

I won't be surprised if Nihilus goes down in a single blow.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
He is flesh and blood after-all.

Well....... no. No, not really.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Well....... no. No, not really.
Well, what is he?

EDIT: KoTORCG lists Darth Nihilus as a human. Case solved.

He's a spirit attached to his armor. He lacks an actual physical form.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
No, you are clueless about his power.

He is not a god. That is a blatant exaggeration.



I was asking a question.



Save the condescending attitude Legend, it's laughable coming from you.

*reads about event.*
Vitiate is a monster.



No he didn't.
Scourge wasn't present for that even, all he did was hear from hearsay that the Dark Council entered the temple and came out dead.



I had no idea of this Darth Lokess rebellion...

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
He is human. Just that he is a wound in the Force but he isn't invincible.

See the Dark Council purge example to understand how fast and effective Vitiate can respond when he is prepared.

I won't be surprised if Nihilus goes down in a single blow.

Nihilus ceased being a man according to Kreia. And his speaking destroys planets. His feats are still above Vitiates imo.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
He is not a god. That is a blatant exaggeration.
Well, the point is that he is incredibly powerful. He controlled millions of Sith Lord simultaneously.


Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
No he didn't.
Scourge wasn't present for that even, all he did was hear from hearsay that the Dark Council entered the temple and came out dead.
Scourge went to investigate the situation in the Citadel and he came back with the revelation that I mentioned.


Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
I had no idea of this Darth Lokess rebellion...
I have.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Nihilus ceased being a man according to Kreia. And his speaking destroys planets. His feats are still above Vitiates imo.
KoTORCG mentions him as a human.

He ceased to be the man much in the same way as Vitiate did. Oh wait! Vitiate have gigantic energy reserves; he is self-sufficient. Nihilus isn't.

We are talking about combat here. Nihilus haven't dominated and/or killed powerful opponents in the manner as Vitiate have done. With preparation, Vitiate doesn't even needs to put effort to bring down his foes; he would have already gathered sufficient power to terminate any adversary swiftly.

Try again.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He's a spirit attached to his armor. He lacks an actual physical form.
No. He is biologically human; difference is that he is not a man in symbolic sense and he dies in that fashion; his body transforms in to energy or something.

We have seen characters transforming in to energies before. Shaak Ti and Revan come to mind.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Well, the point is that he is incredibly powerful. He controlled millions of Sith Lord simultaneously.
I am aware.




He did not see the councilors die. Although now it is very well possible he did solo the Dark Council with this new information.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
KoTORCG mentions him as a human.

He ceased to be the man much in the same way as Vitiate did. Oh wait! Vitiate have gigantic energy reserves; he is self-sufficient. Nihilus isn't.

We are talking about combat here. Nihilus haven't dominated and/or killed powerful opponents in the manner as Vitiate have done. With preparation, Vitiate doesn't even needs to put effort to bring down his foes; he would have already gathered sufficient power to terminate any adversary swiftly.

Try again.

Chill with the hostility. I am not even arguing Nihilus could defeat him, I asked a question and you get all defensive.

Him gathering the sufficient power didn't help him against the Hero of Tython. http://images.killermovies.com/forums/customsmilies/mmm.gif

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
I am aware.




He did not see the councilors die. Although now it is very well possible he did solo the Dark Council with this new information.
Thank you

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Chill with the hostility. I am not even arguing Nihilus could defeat him, I asked a question and you get all defensive.
I apologize if I offended you.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Him gathering the sufficient power didn't help him against the Hero of Tython. http://images.killermovies.com/forums/customsmilies/mmm.gif
This is circumstantial fight.

Vitiate's power was being consumed by the galaxy-busting ritual he was involved in. The Jedi struck him at his most vulnerable time.

Scourge was apparently bluffing with HoT since granting Vitiate time didn't made him more effective in the duel. Scourge wanted HoT to not waste time and effort in his Jedi business and strike at the Emperor when he was most vulnerable so that opportunity was not lost.

i'm thinking boba fett with a ysalarimi.

Lol.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Scourge was apparently bluffing with HoT since granting Vitiate time didn't made him more effective in the duel. Scourge wanted HoT to not waste time and effort in his Jedi business and strike at the Emperor when he was most vulnerable so that opportunity was not lost.

Not true actually. If you ignore your friends being in peril then he's too weak to conjure his clones to attack you in the cutscene before the fight. Going to help them evidently does allow him to recover lost energy.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Thank you


I apologize if I offended you.


This is circumstantial fight.

Vitiate's power was being consumed by the galaxy-busting ritual he was involved in. The Jedi struck him at his most vulnerable time.

Scourge was apparently bluffing with HoT since granting Vitiate time didn't made him more effective in the duel. Scourge wanted HoT to not waste time and effort in his Jedi business and strike at the Emperor when he was most vulnerable so that opportunity was not lost.

Alright I concede. Vitiate with prep takes this. Although I will wait to hear from more people.

I'm surprised no-ones suggested the Hero of Tython yet.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
This is from the same source:

Darth Nihilus (Dark Wars)
Medium human (Dark Side Aberration)

However, that is interesting revelation. He is still vulnerable like any biological being.


SWTOR players say he remains the same capabilities wise. You might have confused between game versions.

'Dark Side Aberration' indicates that he is as I say. That he was originally human means nothing.

I'm a SWTOR player. And when I chose not to go save Doc's stupid skeezy ass Vitiate did not use his clones at the start of the fight.

Originally posted by steveholt955
With any real prep, there isn't anyone he can't defeat.

Well phrased, counselor.

I'm going to ask you more directly, though. Can anyone defeat him under these circumstances?

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm surprised no-ones suggested the Hero of Tython yet.




'Dark Side Aberration' indicates that he is as I say. That he was originally human means nothing.

I'm a SWTOR player. And when I chose not to go save Doc's stupid skeezy ass Vitiate did not use his clones at the start of the fight.
Ok! I rechecked this.

Vitiate regained little strength when JK decided to save his companions; Vitiate's own words.

It is obvious that he cannot regain his whole power after investing it in a galaxy-busting ritual in a short while.

Originally posted by steveholt955
LOL@Hyperbole. Yoda, you continue to be a trip.

Do I know you?

Darth Sexy.

My God;

Look at what happens, if you play as a dark sider:

LWxQarHbv7g

The player chooses not to save his companions; Vitiate then informs the player that he have gained "little advantage" by not wasting time. This implies that Vitiate doesn't regains his full power even if the player chooses to save his companions and then confront him.

However, even in his weakest form, Vitiate begins to collapse the Dark Temple. Very bad@ss.

---

With full preparation and power, Vitiate have destroyed an entire Dark Council. No one can do this in single combat.

Unfortunately that kickass music isn't in the actual game. Woulda been ****in' cool though.

Yeah, that is epic.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
My God;

Look at what happens, if you play as a dark sider:

LWxQarHbv7g

The player chooses not to save his companions; Vitiate then informs the player that he have gained "little advantage" by not wasting time. This implies that Vitiate doesn't regains his full power even if the player chooses to save his companions and then confront him.

However, even in his weakest form, Vitiate begins to collapse the Dark Temple. Very bad@ss.

---

With full preparation and power, Vitiate have destroyed an entire Dark Council. No one can do this in single combat.

LOL the pillar smash and Vitiate's still alive.

Pillar smash and a huge lightsaber slash. http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-colbert.gif

Vitiates hardcore.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Pillar smash and a huge lightsaber slash. http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-colbert.gif

Vitiates hardcore.

Non-canon though excellent

The Emperor can still prolly take Vitiate even with a full day of prep.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
The Emperor can still prolly take Vitiate even with a full day of prep.

Depends on what Vitiate can do with a day of prep. From what it sounds like he can one-shot an entire Dark Council.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Non-canon though excellent
Or Man of Steel? You know superman!

Originally posted by The_Tempest
The Emperor can still prolly take Vitiate even with a full day of prep.
He one-shotted the entire Dark Council under such conditions. Greatest display of power in single combat thus far.

Also, his mind domination powers would be at peak as well.

So unlikely...

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Depends on what Vitiate can do with a day of prep. From what it sounds like he can one-shot an entire Dark Council.

I'm not guaranteeing it, mind you. But the Emperor's own telepathic abilities rival those of Vitiate and he (along with Plagueis) unbalanced the Force through sheer force of psychic will. I don't think that even with a day of prep that Vitiate will be enthralling Sidious.

As for Vitiate one-shotting Sidious, the benefits afforded by the Dark Temple's nexus isn't (to my knowledge) exclusive to Vitiate alone. And Sidious unaided is capable of destroying fleets and planets.

They'll probably just kill each other.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I'm not guaranteeing it, mind you. But the Emperor's own telepathic abilities rival those of Vitiate and he (along with Plagueis) unbalanced the Force through sheer force of psychic will. I don't think that even with a day of prep that Vitiate will be enthralling Sidious.

As for Vitiate one-shotting Sidious, the benefits afforded by the Dark Temple's nexus isn't (to my knowledge) exclusive to Vitiate alone. And Sidious unaided is capable of destroying fleets and planets.

They'll probably just kill each other.

He didn't one-shot them with TK, he one-shotted them with some unknown flash of light ability that essentially vaporized them.

I think that Sidious with prior knowledge to Vitiate and/ or with similar prep could challenge him, as could other top tiers. But with a day's prep on Vitiate's side...I think the Sith Emperor wins.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
He didn't one-shot them with TK, he one-shotted them with some unknown flash of light ability that essentially vaporized them.

I know. The Loch Ness Monster stuff is old news.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
I think that Sidious with prior knowledge to Vitiate and/ or with similar prep could challenge him, as could other top tiers. But with a day's prep on Vitiate's side...I think the Sith Emperor wins.

Maybe.

But the Emperor's telepathic powers are such that he enslaved ~20 billion citizens on Byss; manipulated an unknown number of Coruscant's population to facilitate the burial of the Lusankya, a Super Star Destroyer, beneath the planet's surface; erected psychic shields as an untrained child that blunted even Plagueis's attempts at psychic intrusion; dominated Marek, Luke, and Kam Solusar (and Plagueis himself if you take his words at face value); and clouded the vision of 10,000 Jedi at the height of their powers.

I'm unconvinced a man with those sort of feats will succumb to Vitiate's psychic subjugation.

And as a combatant, Palpatine has far too many feats and accolades to ignore.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I know. The Loch Ness Monster stuff is old news.



Maybe.

But the Emperor's telepathic powers are such that he enslaved ~20 billion citizens on Byss; manipulated an unknown number of Coruscant's population to facilitate the burial of the Lusankya, a Super Star Destroyer, beneath the planet's surface; erected psychic shields as an untrained child that blunted even Plagueis's attempts at psychic intrusion; dominated Marek, Luke, and Kam Solusar (and Plagueis himself if you take his words at face value); and clouded the vision of 10,000 Jedi at the height of their powers.

I'm unconvinced a man with those sort of feats will succumb to Vitiate's psychic subjugation.


And as a combatant, Palpatine has far too many feats and accolades to ignore.

And did battle with the Light Side of the Force.

'The ritual lasted ten days. Lord Vitiate orchestrated the sorcery and the planet Mediraas was consumed by the largest dark side nexus the galaxy would ever see. When the ritual ended, Lord Vitiate emerged as the only survivor. The pain, energy, and suffering of every living entity on the planet fueled his power and would prolong his life for centuries. The lifeless planet of Mediraas became a void in the Force and was erased from history. From that moment forward, the world would forever be known as Nathema, birthplace of the one and only Sith Emperor. (SWTORE, Page 161)

Lolwut.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
But the Emperor's telepathic powers are such that he enslaved ~20 billion citizens on Byss; manipulated an unknown number of Coruscant's population to facilitate the burial of the Lusankya, a Super Star Destroyer, beneath the planet's surface; erected psychic shields as an untrained child that blunted even Plagueis's attempts at psychic intrusion; dominated Marek, Luke, and Kam Solusar (and Plagueis himself if you take his words at face value); and clouded the vision of 10,000 Jedi at the height of their powers.

I'm unconvinced a man with those sort of feats will succumb to Vitiate's psychic subjugation.

And as a combatant, Palpatine has far too many feats and accolades to ignore.
Read this:

The pain, energy, and suffering of every living entity on the planet fueled his power and would prolong his life for centuries.

In addition,

Vitiate have very impressive combat feats.

He felled a Jedi Strike Team (including HOT) with his powers easily. This on a neutral setting.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
And did battle with the Light Side of the Force.

huh?

Sidious can't beat Vitiate. He's now non-canon.

tehe

Originally posted by The_Tempest
huh?

When him and Plaeguis shifted the force to the Dark Side by mediation.

Ah ok.

Hey Tempest, what do you think about the First Son's feat of shielding hundreds of the Emperor's Children from detection? Its pretty impressive imo.

Edit: or anyone else with an opinion....

First Son is possibly the most powerful minion of the Emperor among his Children. He is a master of the Force so his capabilities are not surprisingly incredible.

If it weren't for the timely arrival of Bersen'thor; Jedi Order would have been doomed (whole Galaxy actually).

Bersen'thor played the most crucial role in saving the Republic from the Sith Emperor.

Not entirely sure about that. I mean, the Hero of Tython did save every single being in the galaxy by stopping his ritual and defeating him. Plus S/he was the one who retook Corellia and essentially turned the tides of the entire war (Corellia was so costly for the Empire that it lost 10% of its whole forces).

Of course the Barsen'thors contributions with the plague, the First Son and the Rift Alliance is likely only second to the HoT, but the HoT's feats are hard to top.

all i did was read the novel, so maybe it lacks information I need, but since the emperor was unable to dominate revan's mind the second time when revan was ready and until scourge intervened, I'm thinking someone of a top tier ilk would have to be defeated in combat, other than being omgwtf mindraped. So when it came down to hand to hand combat, i'm not sure how that would pan out. just my 2cents, which admittedly aren't worth as much as they used to be.

You have a point.

It took multiple "champions of light" to stop Sith Emperor; not surprised, given his power and capabilities.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Not entirely sure about that. I mean, the Hero of Tython did save every single being in the galaxy by stopping his ritual and defeating him. Plus S/he was the one who retook Corellia and essentially turned the tides of the entire war (Corellia was so costly for the Empire that it lost 10% of its whole forces).

Of course the Barsen'thors contributions with the plague, the First Son and the Rift Alliance is likely only second to the HoT, but the HoT's feats are hard to top.

Woah what? The Barsen'thor's victories on Corellia and securing of the Guardian Holds during the Empire's Invasion are the only reasons why the Republic was able to retake Corellia.

Originally posted by truejedi
all i did was read the novel, so maybe it lacks information I need, but since the emperor was unable to dominate revan's mind the second time when revan was ready and until scourge intervened, I'm thinking someone of a top tier ilk would have to be defeated in combat, other than being omgwtf mindraped. So when it came down to hand to hand combat, i'm not sure how that would pan out. just my 2cents, which admittedly aren't worth as much as they used to be.
Novel offers limited information about Sith Emperor.

You will need to explore SWTOR game a lot and buy SWTORE to learn about true extent of Vitiate's capabilities. Big task though.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Woah what? The Barsen'thor's victories on Corellia and securing of the Guardian Holds during the Empire's Invasion are the only reasons why the Republic was able to retake Corellia.
Wow! Very impressive.

While the HoT completely revitalized the Jedi on Corellia, taking command of all the Jedi on the planet and led them to to a stunning victory, turning the tide of the fight and retaking the Government District as well as many key parts of the planet. The Jedi turned the tides, with minimal casualties too.

I think both of these "champions of light" proved to be crucial to stopping Sith Emperor. Both are extraordinary.

HoT also played important role in saving Jedi Order on Tython along side Bersen'thor.

Originally posted by Nephthys
While the HoT completely revitalized the Jedi on Corellia, taking command of all the Jedi on the planet and led them to to a stunning victory, turning the tide of the fight and retaking the Government District as well as many key parts of the planet.

There would have been no retaking of Corellia were it not for the Barsen'thor. If the Guardian Holds fell, the Republic reinforcements would have found themselves with no ground to even think of retaking the planet. That much is made clear in their quests. The Empire even knowing of the Guardian Holds made the Republic command on Corellia shit themselves.

Also Barsen'thor took down the First Son, who was secretly commanding the Empire on Corellia, as well as assisted the Republic in slaying the three Dark Councilors in charge of the ops. As did the HoT, I know, but the Barsen'thor had a hand in the decapitation of Sith Command on Corellia, as well as gave the Repubilc a foothold on the planet to survive the invasion.

Originally posted by truejedi
all i did was read the novel, so maybe it lacks information I need, but since the emperor was unable to dominate revan's mind the second time when revan was ready and until scourge intervened, I'm thinking someone of a top tier ilk would have to be defeated in combat, other than being omgwtf mindraped. So when it came down to hand to hand combat, i'm not sure how that would pan out. just my 2cents, which admittedly aren't worth as much as they used to be.

My own opinion is that Revan was only able to stop him the second time because he was ready. He's previously mentioned knowing a way to shield his mind from Vitiate that he's figured out from experiencing Vitiates powers before, that he taught to Scourge and the Exile. I think it was this that gave him enough resistance to interrupt the Emperor. We see that with an unprotected mind earlier, Scourge's, the victim is instantly incapacitated upon contact with Vitiates mind. Yet Revan wasn't, in my opinion because he could shield himself from it.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
There would have been no retaking of Corellia were it not for the Barsen'thor. If the Guardian Holds fell, the Republic reinforcements would have found themselves with no ground to even think of retaking the planet. That much is made clear in their quests. The Empire even knowing of the Guardian Holds made the Republic command on Corellia shit themselves.

Also Barsen'thor took down the First Son, who was secretly commanding the Empire on Corellia, as well as assisted the Republic in slaying the three Dark Councilors in charge of the ops. As did the HoT, I know, but the Barsen'thor had a hand in the decapitation of Sith Command on Corellia, as well as gave the Repubilc a foothold on the planet to survive the invasion.
Great!

--

One more thing: HoT received help from Emperor's Wrath to take down Sith Emperor. Without his help, this wouldn't have been possible.

So it is possible that Bersen'thor was most effective Jedi in history.

Satale Shan specifically says that the Hero of Tython is the Jedi's greatest champion, not the Barsen'thor. estahuh

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
There would have been no retaking of Corellia were it not for the Barsen'thor. If the Guardian Holds fell, the Republic reinforcements would have found themselves with no ground to even think of retaking the planet. That much is made clear in their quests. The Empire even knowing of the Guardian Holds made the Republic command on Corellia shit themselves.

Also Barsen'thor took down the First Son, who was secretly commanding the Empire on Corellia, as well as assisted the Republic in slaying the three Dark Councilors in charge of the ops. As did the HoT, I know, but the Barsen'thor had a hand in the decapitation of Sith Command on Corellia, as well as gave the Repubilc a foothold on the planet to survive the invasion.

Fair enough, they can have joint credit. The Hero of Tython took down Tol Braga who somehow also was in secret command of the Empire on Corellia (lol). Though imo its more likely that the Hero of Tython took out Decimus and co, being the Supreme Commander of the Corellian forces and all.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Fair enough, they can have joint credit. The Hero of Tython took down Tol Braga who somehow also was in secret command of the Empire on Corellia (lol). Though imo its more likely that the Hero of Tython took out Decimus and co, being the Supreme Commander of the Corellian forces and all.
HoT took out Decimus?

Maybe? Its a class quest to take him out, which any class can do. It could have been the Smuggler for all we know lmao. I just think that its most likely to be the Jedi Knight who did it since they were specifically in charge of retaking Corellia.

Man that would be incredible, keeping in mind the power of Decimus.

You also take out two other Dark Council members in the same quest, Darth Acharon and Darth Hadra, Hadra and Decimus basically minutes after each other. Whomever canonically did it is a real beast.

Hadra's codex entry gives her some good talk in terms of power as I recall.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Satale Shan specifically says that the Hero of Tython is the Jedi's greatest champion, not the Barsen'thor. estahuh

And she names the Barsen'thor to the Jedi Council. HoT's accomplishments were more martial and symbolic. Strategically though what the Barsen'thor and "Mender of the Rift" did shits all over the HoT.

He got the Rift Alliance to join the war, and stopped the Republic from losing valuable systems. Those systems fleets and armies then assisted in holding Corellia. Let's not even talk about what strategic value knocking out the Children of the Emperor was.



Lol Tol Braga had secret command of the Empire on Corellia over the Emperor's first son? (lol not likely)

I think that it was all four. That's the only way I can justify four Dark Council members getting curbstomped one after another.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
And she names the Barsen'thor to the Jedi Council. HoT's accomplishments were more martial and symbolic. Strategically though what the Barsen'thor and "Mender of the Rift" did shits all over the HoT.

He got the Rift Alliance to join the war, and stopped the Republic from losing valuable systems. Those systems fleets and armies then assisted in holding Corellia. Let's not even talk about what strategic value knocking out the Children of the Emperor was.

You want to talk strategic value? How about stopping the Emperor from killing every living being everywhere. Thats pretty strategically powerful IMO. Not to mention that it sparked Malgus' rebellion and all that entails. Also the Hero did save Coruscant from being retaken by the Empire and saved Belsavis, Voss, Tatooine and Tython from total destruction. Symbolic my ass.

Also when I started Makeb I seem to recall whatsherface Supreme Chancellor Suresh refer to me as the Republics best asset. So yeah. Strategic. (Although she might just say that to all the Republic heroes, the ****)

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Lol Tol Braga had secret command of the Empire on Corellia over the Emperor's first son? (lol not likely)

I think that it was all four. That's the only way I can justify four Dark Council members getting curbstomped one after another.

Yes. Tol Braga's mission was vastly more important than the First Son's, i.e. Vitiate complete life eradication ritual.

HoT received lot of help and insight from Emperor's Wrath. The traitor practically set the stage for downfall of Vitiate since he knew too much and his information too important.

So credit does not solely goes to HoT; yes, he still played a pivotal role in saving the entire Galaxy since he accomplished seemingly impossible tasks.

In contrast, Bersen'thor possessed innate capability to figure out fault-lines in galactic events that may have changed the fate of the Galaxy as well. If Bersen'thor had not stopped First Son, he would have destroyed the Jedi Order from within and aided Vitiate to accomplish his ultimate goal.

Nonetheless, both of these "champions of light" have unprecedented accomplishments under their belt.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Hey Tempest, what do you think about the First Son's feat of shielding hundreds of the Emperor's Children from detection? Its pretty impressive imo.

Edit: or anyone else with an opinion....

What?

What do you mean 'what?' I'm asking for your opinion, douche. Or are you simply staggered by the scale of the feat? Puny Sidious could only shield himself from the Jedi's detection, let alone hundreds. I think we all know who's more powerful. http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-smuggo.gif

I have no idea what you're talking about?

Its pretty self-explanatory? You know what the Emperor's Children are I'm sure, people imbued with the Emperor's power and sent as spies into the Republic. The First Son shields them from the Jedi's detection. Thats.... it I think.

Pretty sweet? Not that sweet? Sour?

Might be fallacious but the guy had centuries of prep to conquer the Republic and failed. He's no Batman or anything.

Originally posted by Based
Might be fallacious but the guy had centuries of prep to conquer the Republic and failed. He's no Batman or anything.

He would have conquered the galaxy were it not for Revan convincing him of the Cold War unbeknownst to him.

True but that would be due to the exploits of the Sith Triumvirate which was not a factor for him. While the planned end result was more of the same, he planned to have the Star Forge and Revan and Malak serving under him. He lost all three.

Originally posted by Based
Might be fallacious but the guy had centuries of prep to conquer the Republic and failed. He's no Batman or anything.
The story is lot more complex then you know...

Originally posted by Based
True but that would be due to the exploits of the Sith Triumvirate which was not a factor for him. While the planned end result was more of the same, he planned to have the Star Forge and Revan and Malak serving under him. He lost all three.
They were all PLAN B to him.

So? If his level of foresight and planning was so great his plan B would have worked. Instead he had to wait extra centuries by entrusting this task to Revan. Vitiate miscalculated. Terribly.

Originally posted by Based
So? If his level of foresight and planning was so great his plan B would have worked. Instead he had to wait extra centuries by entrusting this task to Revan. Vitiate miscalculated. Terribly.
He had to take chances after defeat of Exar Kun; the Republic was too strong. He attempted to destroy Republic and Jedi Order without himself getting involved. While the Jedi Order almost got destroyed and Republic significantly weakened, the plan still didn't work. So Vitiate went back to his PLAN A.

Since Vitiate was attempting to mess with the Force in ways that others did not dared to; it backfired. The Force have its own will and it does not tolerates extremely powerful dark siders attempting to control it and create significant imbalance.

PM Maul kicks his a##. BTW in what order of power are Vitiate's minions, from strongest to weakest? I assume that Scourge is number 1.

Originally posted by The Merchant
PM Maul kicks his a##. BTW in what order of power are Vitiate's minions, from strongest to weakest? I assume that Scourge is number 1.
If this is a joke, it is seriously a very bad one.

It was a joke, I assumed people would realize that since I later asked what order of power are Vitiate's minions.

Originally posted by The Merchant
It was a joke, I assumed people would realize that since I later asked what order of power are Vitiate's minions.
Difficult to answer:

Emperor's Wrath is surely a very formidable position to behold and Scourge was enhanced in every possible manner by the Sith Emperor to make it possible for him to hold this position. In short, Scourge is certainly very powerful as Emperor's Wrath.

However, First Son is another minion who is extraordinarily powerful. He is canonically a master of the Force; most powerful among the "children."

If the entire Empire is considered then some Dark Councilors take the cake; some of them are mind-bogglingly powerful.

In case of powerbase:-

1. Voice of the Emperor: a vessel of the Emperor who can wield Emperor's own power.
2. First Son (Leader of children of the Emperor)
3. Emperor's Wrath (best warrior within powerbase)
4. Imperial Guard
5. Hand of the Emperor

Originally posted by Nephthys
'Dark Side Aberration' indicates that he is as I say. That he was originally human means nothing. I do not have the guide, but IIRC it uses the d20 system, right? Is he defined as an aberration by the dnd rules in-game? If so, that would imply that physically, he can no longer be what we'd call "human".

Edit

Son wtf pwns.

As does Abeloth.

While Vitiate had massive knowledge of powerful techniques, moreso than perhaps any other Sith, Abeloth and Son are super beings immune to said techniques.

More exotic techniques, with sufficient mastery, could overcome Vitiate, see Plagueis and his imagined potential implications of midi-chlorian manipulation. If midi-chlorians can give a dumb species immunity to Force Tricks such as a Jedi Mind Trick, it can do the same with more powerful techniques like Sever Force or even Drain Force. Though, Plagueis did not have that kind of mastery. Vitiate is still the most skilled Sorcerer.

Mace Windu could probably take him out, as could Luke Skywalker, they're too physically superior - as with Palps, Vitiate may be too versatile, lacking expedience to pull them off to win a duel with a combatant as capable as Windu or NJO Luke.

Originally posted by Dolos
Son wtf pwns.

As does Abeloth.
Show us examples of them WTFpwning other masters of the Force.

Originally posted by Dolos
While Vitiate had massive knowledge of powerful techniques, moreso than perhaps any other Sith, Abeloth and Son are super beings immune to said techniques.
Not sure about that! Abeloth lost several of her bodies in her battles against the Jedi.

Originally posted by Dolos
More exotic techniques, with sufficient mastery, could overcome Vitiate, see Plagueis and his imagined potential implications of midi-chlorian manipulation. If midi-chlorians can give a dumb species immunity to Force Tricks such as a Jedi Mind Trick, it can do the same with more powerful techniques like Sever Force or even Drain Force. Though, Plagueis did not have that kind of mastery. Vitiate is still the most skilled Sorcerer.
Well, argument is not Vitiate being immune but him being "ready" to take down anybody he encounters. And he have canonically demonstrated to being extraordinarily effective in this aspect.

Originally posted by Dolos
Mace Windu could probably take him out, as could Luke Skywalker, they're too physically superior - as with Palps, Vitiate may be too versatile, lacking expedience to pull them off to win a duel with a combatant as capable as Windu or NJO Luke.
Vitiate can break even the strongest Jedi with his powers.

No, Vitiate has no chance against Luke.
Windu could arguably take him out, simply because Windu excels at taking out Sith.


Abeloth lost pretty much every body to Luke, correct? (I have not cared much for the recent books)

Legend, the Son and Abeloth are literal incarnations of the Dark Side and Chaos, respectively. Only Anakin has bested the Son, and that while he was pretty much the Force itself. Abeloth has been beaten primarily by Luke, who has become more powerful than anybody short of Anakin's moment on Mortis.




"Extraordinarily effective" maybe, but sometimes that isn't enough. This would be the case against some of the people here, who are just so strong that Vitiate would have to be supremely effective at everything to beat.



I could see an argument for Palps to win as well.

Originally posted by Pwned
No, Vitiate has no chance against Luke.
Windu could arguably take him out, simply because Windu excels at taking out Sith.
I can't tell if you're being serious but if you are, that's awful logic. Windu could take Vitiate out because.....He excels at taking out Sith? Wow. What an eye opener. Vitiate has no chance against Luke because...? Oh right, no reason.



It took a combination of Luke and Krayt to defeat Abeloth, and they were both badly beat up after it was over.

Originally posted by Pwned
I could see an argument for Palps to win as well.

Originally posted by Nephthys
This is just a test to see the response. I'm merely curious about what you'll all say. mmm

Vitiate has a full day of prep and the fight occurs in his throne room. His opponent is anyone in Star Wars barring stupid responses like that sentient mountain. They do not have prep. Only one person allowed per fight.

What do you mean by "preps"? If anyone is allowed,then Nihilus eats Vitiate. The end!

Luke wins. Sidious wins.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Luke wins. Sidious wins.

Outside of this, he'd beat any Jedi/Sith.

Any of The One's win.

I'd say the One's and the World Razer and thats it.

Sidious and Luke lol

Yeah, lol, I can't believe anyone'd think that Vitiate would win.

Vitiate one-shot an entire Dark Council.

I mean maybe Sidious and Luke would tank that, but they wouldn't be capable of winning afterwards.

...Or they could deflect.

You know, considering that Luke is the strongest force user outside of the ones.

They could try. And fail.

Luke isn't powerful enough to no-sell an attack of that magnitude. I said he might be capable of surviving it, but he'd be weakened and exhausted to the point that he'd just lose to Vitiate in the follow up fight.

Probably anyone wins. biscuits

Originally posted by Nephthys
They could try. And fail.

Luke isn't powerful enough to no-sell an attack of that magnitude. I said he might be capable of surviving it, but he'd be weakened and exhausted to the point that he'd just lose to Vitiate in the follow up fight. Luke is much more powerful then Vitiate could ever dream of being. That's fact.

Maybe Vitiate will get lucky and it will be sorta like the Lumiya vs Luke fight.

Vitiate's best asset is his lightning, and his has nothing on DE Sidious.

GM Luke pulls out Oneness.

Should get the job done, since that makes him temporarily even with Daughter.

Originally posted by Angelalex242
GM Luke pulls out Oneness.

Should get the job done, since that makes him temporarily even with Daughter.
Where'd you get that idea from?

His ass, most likely.

So out your ass then? That logic is based on the basis stronger than Luke means Ones level. It doesn't.

What counter evidence do you have?


Luke Skywalker: On the way to confront Supreme Overlord Shimrra he slew countless Yuuzhan Vong as well as many Slayers in a state that was described by his nephew Jacen Solo as a maelstrom of luminous Force energy that poured from a calm center. It was a maelstrom in which Skywalker did not appear to be present either physically or as an individual personality, having completely surrendered himself to the will of the Force.

There's my citation. Where's yours?

Luke goes oneness mode in FOTJ, but gets slapped down by Abeloth.

He'll beat anyone(not the god (ish) beings obviously). His non prep feats already put him in top tier and even the biggest Vitiate hater admits that Vitiate is very good with preps/rituals. He amps and gives others immortality like its no big deal and can boost himself to a level where he can one-shot an entire Dark Council. Imgaine the boost he'd provide for himself in an the entire day he has.

24 hours is a very long time for a capable sorcerer. Dread Masters with 1 day prep would probably be too much for any individual as well and Vitiate is more dangerous than their combined strength.

Incorrect. BEN goes Oneness mode vs. Aboelth, and it's pretty useless. Dear Old Dad doesn't use it then.

Citation need, if you wish to claim otherwise.

Originally posted by Angelalex242
What counter evidence do you have?


Luke Skywalker: On the way to confront Supreme Overlord Shimrra he slew countless Yuuzhan Vong as well as many Slayers in a state that was described by his nephew Jacen Solo as a maelstrom of luminous Force energy that poured from a calm center. It was a maelstrom in which Skywalker did not appear to be present either physically or as an individual personality, having completely surrendered himself to the will of the Force.

There's my citation. Where's yours?
How is this even proof of your argument he would be on par with the Daughter?

Although she rarely expressed her powers in the Force, the Daughter was a very powerful being. Like the rest of the Ones, she had no fixed material form, and displayed the ability to change her shape at will, particularly by assuming the form of a large griffin. She also possessed telekinetic abilities, being able to throw the Son around the room where they were fighting. She also had healing abilities, which she used to try to heal her injured father. During her fight with the Son, the Daughter showed the ability to deflect and absorb Force lightning, deflecting every blast the Son shot at her, and even redirecting a bolt back at the Son. At the conclusion of their duel, the Daughter was able to match the Son's lightning with an equally powerful Force Push, and, while she never managed to overcome him, the Son also failed to penetrate his sister's defense, proving that they were evenly matched.

Only four beings were known to be strong enough to challenge the Daughter: the Father, the Son, the Mother (Abeloth), and the Chosen One, Anakin Skywalker.

Now then. If Anakin can get up to that level, it's a safe bet Luke can too. He just was never actually using Onenes against Aboleth, which is the only party of that family he's done battle with.

Can Vitiate with this much prep give Aboleth a rough time? Certainly. Can Luke with Oneness do the same? Absolutely. But let's not forget the point: That at extreme levels of play, the top tier beings will start approaching Ones Tier.

Originally posted by Angelalex242
Although she rarely expressed her powers in the Force, the Daughter was a very powerful being. Like the rest of the Ones, she had no fixed material form, and displayed the ability to change her shape at will, particularly by assuming the form of a large griffin. She also possessed telekinetic abilities, being able to throw the Son around the room where they were fighting. She also had healing abilities, which she used to try to heal her injured father. During her fight with the Son, the Daughter showed the ability to deflect and absorb Force lightning, deflecting every blast the Son shot at her, and even redirecting a bolt back at the Son. At the conclusion of their duel, the Daughter was able to match the Son's lightning with an equally powerful Force Push, and, while she never managed to overcome him, the Son also failed to penetrate his sister's defense, proving that they were evenly matched.

Only four beings were known to be strong enough to challenge the Daughter: the Father, the Son, the Mother (Abeloth), and the Chosen One, Anakin Skywalker.

Now then. If Anakin can get up to that level, it's a safe bet Luke can too. He just was never actually using Onenes against Aboleth, which is the only party of that family he's done battle with.

That logic literally gave me cancer. It's not a safe bet at all. The reason:It's based on your opinion and no actual showing.

Again, you're just spouting opinions, all of which aren't really supported by anything but each other.

I also like how Luke will magically go into Oneness during this duel.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice

I also like how Luke will magically go into Oneness during this duel.

Same

And even if he did, isn't Abeloth like 12-13 times stronger than him? I have no reason to believe Luke's oneness could boost his power to that degree without proof.