Curryman's Meta-Amalgam Tourney!

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



curryman
Curryman's Meta-Amalgam Tournament

Step 1; Drafting
Choose any 3 characters from High Meta or below.

Body: You choose the body of a character.
Mind: You put the mind of a character in said body.
Powers: You endow said person with a power-set.

Simply put; Body + Mind + Power = Your Amalgam

Step 2; Power Limitations
Make sure that your character does not violate any of these rules/limitations

- No death-moves, this means attacks that by their very nature are completely unavoidable and un-defendable against.
- No offensive matter manipulation (ie. Can not be used directly on the battlefield/opponents)
- No multiplying (ie. Multiple Man, dupli-kate, multi-paul).
- Power Absorption/Copying/Amplification is not allowed beyond the obvious benefits on your amalgamation.
- No going past mach 10
- No time manipulation
- No complete/inherent invulnerability
- No body-swapping; as I feel this goes against the purpose of an amalgam tourney.
- Changes made to the tier list after this date will not count towards the tourney.

Step 3; Personalize it
Look at the characters you've drafted and terrible yet wonderful amalgamation of them.

Think of a name for your creation.
Find a theme song for your creation.

Step 4; Strategy Limitations
These are restrictions in which you'll be fighting

- 30 seconds prep-time
- Prep-time is strictly 30 seconds to choose your gear, nothing can be created
- The amalgamated characters' resources have been conveniently pooled
- Only basic knowledge of opponents (participants are subject to mind-wipes)
- No memory retention (ie, knowledge of previous fights in-tourney)
- 1 independent construction; Can not go above high-meta, must be created in-battle.
- Battleground is surrounded by an enormous forcefield, if you go through one side then you reappear at the other. Combatants are not aware of this
- No loopholes; I, the host, will decide what is within the rules and what is not
- Feats from after the draft finishes will not be eligible

Draft Information:

- Drafting starts June 27th 8:00 AM GMT+0. British standard
- Characters will be drafted one at a time
- First come first serve
- Specify what part of the amalgam you draft your character for
- If your character is rejected, you have to pick again
- You might be forced to redraft if someone makes a valid case against a character when the drafts are posted

Information of battles will arrive later, depending on the number of participants and judges. Ideally I'd like 7 days to a fight and then 3-4 days to judge.

Participants sign up here!
Judges PM me!
Please ask if you have any questions/need clarifications.

abhilegend
Sign me up.

Digi
Down to judge. Just PM me to remind me when I'm up. I'm not around occasionally.

You may have to tweak a couple of those rules, or clarify some. The mind/body/power things opens a couple interesting loopholes as well. I'll have to see if I can remember what was done in the past that you may want to prepare for (but right now I'm drawing a blank).

But, good start.

Badabing
Looks good Curryman. I have a few questions. First, say somebody chooses the mind of someone with tp or tk, does that translate into the amalgam as well or would that be strictly considered a power? Second, people will likely try to find loopholes around the prep time limit, or flat out exceed it. Is it up to the judges to figure out what's plausible or will that fall on the tournament host?

curryman
Originally posted by Badabing
Looks good Curryman. I have a few questions. First, say somebody chooses the mind of someone with tp or tk, does that translate into the amalgam as well or would that be strictly considered a power? Second, people will likely try to find loopholes around the prep time limit, or flat out exceed it. Is it up to the judges to figure out what's plausible or will that fall on the tournament host?

A very good question, our scaled Moderator.

Mind: What constitutes as a mind-ability are things that the characters have learned. While I am a bit reticent to give away possible strong picks, it is safe to say that any skill that a character has not been "given" but earned would count as "The Mind." Fantomex' ability to read body language, Stark's intelligence, Karnak's ability to perceive weaknesses and so on smile

Telepathy/Telekinesis. These things often come as a result of a freak accident, being some kind of advanced human or as a mutant gift. As such they would count towards powers. However, if a form of telepathy has been "learned" through mental discipline, I would be willing to allow it.

I plan on deciding what is allowed and what isn't, but it will naturally be up to each individual judge to determine if they felt that the abilities "meshed" well. There will not be hundreds of participants and as such it will be possible to deal with this on a character-by-character basis, if need be.

Judge input will naturally be very valuable, as will feedback and advice from the Tourney Veterans!

I hope that helped clarify things.

Badabing
Originally posted by curryman
A very good question, our scaled Moderator.

Mind: What constitutes as a mind-ability are things that the characters have learned. While I am a bit reticent to give away possible strong picks, it is safe to say that any skill that a character has not been "given" but earned would count as "The Mind." Fantomex' ability to read body language, Stark's intelligence, Karnak's ability to perceive weaknesses and so on smile

Telepathy/Telekinesis. These things often come as a result of a freak accident, being some kind of advanced human or as a mutant gift. As such they would count towards powers. However, if a form of telepathy has been "learned" through mental discipline, I would be willing to allow it.

I plan on deciding what is allowed and what isn't, but it will naturally be up to each individual judge to determine if they felt that the abilities "meshed" well. There will not be hundreds of participants and as such it will be possible to deal with this on a character-by-character basis, if need be.

Judge input will naturally be very valuable, as will feedback and advice from the Tourney Veterans!

I hope that helped clarify things. Okay. It sounds like you're covering things well. thumb up

Oliver North
I'd be down to judge, can't really commit to much more than that.

You might want to add a limit on killability or regeneration though.

Bentley
Ready to judge on command.

Digi
Need participants. Looks like that will be harder. 3 judges already, sorry 4 since delph said he would in the vs. forum. We've done as few as 6 competitors with an odd round-robin style, but usually you need 8 or more for a viable tourney.

leonidas
i'd be down with 4 competitors. everyone wants to be a judge. blah. y'all suck. sneer

what if the battle format were changed to match the title style matches? 5 post max/person/battle? might generate more interest if everyone knew there wouldn't be 10 pg battles. just a suggestion.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by leonidas
i'd be down with 4 competitors. everyone wants to be a judge. blah. y'all suck. sneer

what if the battle format were changed to match the title style matches? 5 post max/person/battle? might generate more interest if everyone knew there wouldn't be 10 pg battles. just a suggestion.

thumb up

curryman
I left a few things "unbanned" so that people wouldn't feel like their creativity was shut down completely, however: Newjak brought up a very interesting point for mind, magic!

Magic; I'm willing to allow this under the Mind category. I looked at a few of the other tournaments and as far as I can tell, at least one of them rolled with magic available through magic. Keep in mind that there will be a few restrictions.

- They can only cast spells shown in comics
- They won't be able to use magic that rely on their body/other powers. In example you couldn't draft the mind of Spiral in the body of a 2 armed person, and then access her magic since so much of it relies on her having 6 arms.
- Magic resistance will be allowed only through body drafts and/or counter spells.
- The other restrictions naturally apply to magic also, no "eid-ydobyreve" or offensive matter manipulation.

Originally posted by leonidas
i'd be down with 4 competitors. everyone wants to be a judge. blah. y'all suck. sneer

what if the battle format were changed to match the title style matches? 5 post max/person/battle? might generate more interest if everyone knew there wouldn't be 10 pg battles. just a suggestion.

I'm willing to switch things around if need be.

Most important thing for me is to make sure the Tourney happens.

Judges

Digi
Delph
Jake
Bentley
Curryman

I'm still waiting on 10 more responses or so from PMs, but I think I'll send out a couple of more. If the personally written messages won't get them, then maybe I should include some music or a haiku smile

Omega Vision
I'd be happy to be a judge.

Blair Wind
If I can get my amalgam to work within the confines of this tournament, I may join as a participant. One of them is considered a low herald though and I'm not sure I can do what I'd like to do without them. Not sure if there is a suitable replacement for them either.

If not, I'm more than willing to judge.

curryman
Originally posted by Blair Wind
If I can get my amalgam to work within the confines of this tournament, I may join as a participant. One of them is considered a low herald though and I'm not sure I can do what I'd like to do without them. Not sure if there is a suitable replacement for them either.

If not, I'm more than willing to judge.

While I've been advised against letting in certain characters under restrictions, I feel like having a tourney with said character is far better than no tourney at all smile

To avoid potentially revealing your draft here, we can discuss this in PM.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I'd be happy to be a judge.

Haha, what a co-incidence. I just sent out your invitation smile

psycho gundam
i'm in as a competitor

Damborgson
I'll give it a whirl. Why not?

Oliver North
wait, was curryman the person who had me on ignore?

lulz

curryman
Immortality:
No characters who are functionally ageless, immortal. Ie: No one who has been blacklisted in death's domain and/or fated to never die. This also means that character with extreme regeneration will be limited.

Originally posted by Oliver North
wait, was curryman the person who had me on ignore?

lulz
No ignore list for the purpose of tournaments, as it goes beyond the petty VS-forum! Anyone who wants to participate/judge are free to do so, regardless of past falling outs with me. Here I have no enemies or allies, only friends!

And no, you're not on ignore stick out tongue

Updated Judge List

Digi
Delph
Jake
Bentley
Curryman
Omega Vision
Oliver North
Blair Wind

Updated Participants List

Abhilegend
Leonidas
Srankmissingnin ? (Iffy about the Meta-Tier)
Damborgson
Psycho Gundam
KM ? (Might be busy with work)

Blair Wind We've spoken in PM and he would rather function as Judge since 2 of his planned picks fall into the low-herald tier smile

Oliver North
Originally posted by curryman
No ignore list for the purpose of tournaments, as it goes beyond the petty VS-forum! Anyone who wants to participate/judge are free to do so, regardless of past falling outs with me. Here I have no enemies or allies, only friends!

And no, you're not on ignore stick out tongue

god, who was it then...

also, cool smile

Badabing
Has anybody reached out to Id, Smurph, Jake or Scoobless about participating? They all have game in tournies. Curryman, you can make a thread for your tournament in the CBvF and I'll pin it.

curryman
And excellent! I'll type up something for the VS forum then.

Originally posted by Badabing
Has anybody reached out to Id, Smurph, Jake or Scoobless about participating? They all have game in tournies. Curryman, you can make a thread for your tournament in the CBvF and I'll pin it.

So far I've tried to PM these people;

Rage
Zop
Pym-ftw
Endless Mike
ODG
King Kandy
Philsophia
Celehyga
ID
Zack Fair
PR
Existere

I'm not familiar with Scoobless, but I'll try and write up a PM for him. These personal invitations are getting trickier by the minute laughing

I'll also try to PM Galan, Naija and maybe a few others who've participated in former Battlezone-threads.

Blair Wind
I'll contact Smurph. He rarely comes to KMC anymore.

curryman
The thread is up, badabing badaboom.

Originally posted by Blair Wind
I'll contact Smurph. He rarely comes to KMC anymore.

Thanks!

Any suggestions on numbers of Judges pr. Match? Thinking 3, unless we get like a ton, in which case we can roll with 5.

Existere
I've been contacted.

Thanks Blair!

I want to participate soooooo badly... but it's not something I can realistically commit to for the next two months, bar the odd day of being able to post. If our start date were September or if there were partners, I'd be down in a heartbeat.

As it is, I'll keep my eye on the tournament out of general interest. Looks cray cray.

Newjak
Originally posted by Existere
I've been contacted.

Thanks Blair!

I want to participate soooooo badly... but it's not something I can realistically commit to for the next two months, bar the odd day of being able to post. If our start date were September or if there were partners, I'd be down in a heartbeat.

As it is, I'll keep my eye on the tournament out of general interest. Looks cray cray. Did you just use cray cray?

I'm banning you no expression

Bardock42
So....what is this exactly?

zopzop
How much effort do we have to put into this? Is this like one of the those vs thread "discussions" that go on for like 50 pages? Or do we just produce our hero amalgam and give reasons why we think he'd win vs the other guys?

Digi
Originally posted by zopzop
How much effort do we have to put into this? Is this like one of the those vs thread "discussions" that go on for like 50 pages? Or do we just produce our hero amalgam and give reasons why we think he'd win vs the other guys?

You'd only get a certain number of posts (probably 5, could be as much as 10), and there would be a time limit to the match (1-2 weeks usually). You'd be expected to back up your arguments with relevant scans.

There would likely be a chance for you to submit a writeup of your general strategy beforehand, which would count as your first post. You would not see your opponent's writeup. But once the match started, it would be a back and forth until you hit the post limit or time expires.

If any of that is wrong, curryman can clarify. But that's pretty standard stuff.

Digi
Also, curry, give this at least a week or two before finalizing things. People may trickle in once it seems like there's a real shot at a cool tourney. Especially with the 4th of July weekend for many, I think the soonest you'd want to start drafts in the 8th. Once things start, they should be kept moving, but the holiday will nuke attendance for early stuff if you don't wait a bit.

Digi
Oh, also, sorry if I'm wrecking anyone's strategy here but...

Be careful of, say, Reed's mind + a technomorph. You might want to add a rule that states that any constructs, magical, technological, or otherwise, need to be at or below High Meta. Otherwise, Ultimate Reed Richards + Warlock (technarchy) and you could theoretically be wandering around the tournament with a cosmic cube, or half a dozen other insta-kills.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Digi
Oh, also, sorry if I'm wrecking anyone's strategy here but...

Be careful of, say, Reed's mind + a technomorph. You might want to add a rule that states that any constructs, magical, technological, or otherwise, need to be at or below High Meta. Otherwise, Ultimate Reed Richards + Warlock (technarchy) and you could theoretically be wandering around the tournament with a cosmic cube, or half a dozen other insta-kills.
Spoilsport.

stick out tongue

Digi
Hey, I can't help it if I know what half you idiots are thinking.

Besides, I only mentioned Ultimate Reed because I essentially brought that exact same trick to a tourney in the past. Can't have ya'll stealing my ideas.

happy

Newjak
Originally posted by Digi
Hey, I can't help it if I know what half you idiots are thinking.

Besides, I only mentioned Ultimate Reed because I essentially brought that exact same trick to a tourney in the past. Can't have ya'll stealing my ideas.

happy I knew that strategy sounded familiar stick out tongue

MF DELPH
Smh...

**Digi pours Haterade on the dance floor then walks off**

Oliver North
Originally posted by Digi
Oh, also, sorry if I'm wrecking anyone's strategy here but...

Be careful of, say, Reed's mind + a technomorph. You might want to add a rule that states that any constructs, magical, technological, or otherwise, need to be at or below High Meta. Otherwise, Ultimate Reed Richards + Warlock (technarchy) and you could theoretically be wandering around the tournament with a cosmic cube, or half a dozen other insta-kills.

anyone not seriously thinking of Man-Thing for the body is silly... and I think he violates less rules than Warlock would, har har!

Bardock42
Okay, I'll do it.

Body: Prof X
Mind: Solomon Grundy
Power: Batman


Where do I collect my trophy?

Oliver North
no way, Bat-Kick gets the ban

Digi
Originally posted by MF DELPH
Smh...

**Digi pours Haterade on the dance floor then walks off**

You're welcome.

cool

Digi
Ok, since I was a jerk, here's a golden idea. Feel free to steal:

Step 1: Blob + Mr. Fantastic. Snake into their noses and stick yourself to their internal organs. With Blob's powers, they won't be able to remove you and will die from internal bleeding.

Step 2: Collect your 72 virgins, you champion, you.

thumb up

curryman
Originally posted by Digi
Oh, also, sorry if I'm wrecking anyone's strategy here but...

Be careful of, say, Reed's mind + a technomorph. You might want to add a rule that states that any constructs, magical, technological, or otherwise, need to be at or below High Meta. Otherwise, Ultimate Reed Richards + Warlock (technarchy) and you could theoretically be wandering around the tournament with a cosmic cube, or half a dozen other insta-kills.

I'm glad you're calling it out in case people missed it, but I placed this particular bit in the "strategy limitations"



Originally posted by Bardock42
So....what is this exactly?

I'm not sure how familiar you are with the other setups, but it will basically be something like this. Each participants, over the course of 3 drafts, drafts 3 characters to use for an amalgam.

1 character's body.
1 character's mind.
1 character's powers.

It should be explained in the original introduction post, but there are plenty of veterans here, or you can just PM me. If you have questions about specific picks then you should PM me as to not reveal your strategy big grin

Originally posted by Digi
You'd only get a certain number of posts (probably 5, could be as much as 10), and there would be a time limit to the match (1-2 weeks usually). You'd be expected to back up your arguments with relevant scans.

I was thinking a bit over a week pr. match and around 5-6 posts.

Originally posted by Digi
Also, curry, give this at least a week or two before finalizing things.
Excellent advice, stating off this weekend might be a bit rushed.

I'll ask if Badabing can remove the bit about starting the draft in 3 days smile

Blair Wind
You should just make the drafts be in one thread all at the same time. Having three just extends the amount of time not debating in the tournament.

curryman
Originally posted by Blair Wind
You should just make the drafts be in one thread all at the same time. Having three just extends the amount of time not debating in the tournament.

That might be a good idea. 3 threads does seem a bit excessive.

Digi
Well, be careful. I like doing it quickly, but you also might not want to let one person pick 3 people before someone else picks any. It's a strategic nightmare. Or maybe you like that type of chaos...some hosts/judges/participants revel in that kind of craziness.

If you're persistent with PMs to participants, you can do 3 separate rounds fairly quickly. Blair's method isn't terrible, but not all will like it. One thread can handle it either way though...saves forum clutter, I suppose.

Also, all body/mind/powers at the same time? Basically, will the first pick need to be one of the 3 (body, for example)? Or can you pick them in any order?

Oliver North
just to throw it out there, I at least had the decency to promote a strategy with a character I'd never let someone draft into the tourney

again we see, inimalist > digimark

EDIT: anyways draft magic users from the cross-gen universe, nobody knows who they are and they are fantastic. I got a trans level character into a low herald tourney through that method

curryman
Originally posted by Digi
Also, all body/mind/powers at the same time? Basically, will the first pick need to be one of the 3 (body, for example)? Or can you pick them in any order?

I've been wondering about this.

It might be more neat and tidy if we do it 1 category at a time, but I think that part of the strategy is what people prioritize in the draft.

leonidas
i disagree with digi in one regard--the longer you wait the more time people have to find reasons NOT to compete. i've hosted one of these as well. the reason it worked effectively was because i did very little waiting around, and it people missed the draft night, oh well. you'll never get everyone to be able to commit to one night, so people use proxies to make picks, or they find the time. i already mentioned in my pm that time is ltd for me. we have committed participants, committed judges and a tourney outline (why not just recycle the one that was used--just change a couple things you didn't like in the rules). i say start it up asap and get it going. just make sure you are available to answer questions and deal with issues promptly. i'd suggest having a solid second to give you hand with tough decisions. maybe bran or odg would be good with letting you run issues past them, but both are on infrequently. or maybe jake (since he doesn't seem to want to join in for some reason........) would help you deal with issues. in any event, i would definitely suggest having someone around to help with stuff that comes up.

my vote is for getting started quickly and getting this thing moving along just as quickly.

Bardock42
I understand the draft part. I don't understand what happens then.

Are there brackets of matchups and the two drafters debate their choices? Does everyone debate who would win? Is this like a league or play offs (does every draft have a thread against every other draft or are they knocked out if they "lose"wink? Do arguments go on for days or posts (you answered that in the post I'm replying to)? Do all judges judge every thread?

And (as you can probably tell) I am not at all familiar with the concept at all (at all)...in fact I didn't know KMC had a Battlezone forum (and still don't know what a Battlezone forum is), I just noticed cause inimalist sent me the link to the writing tournament no expression

curryman
Originally posted by Bardock42
I understand the draft part. I don't understand what happens then.

Are there brackets of matchups and the two drafters debate their choices? Does everyone debate who would win? Is this like a league or play offs (does every draft have a thread against every other draft or are they knocked out if they "lose"wink? Do arguments go on for days or posts (you answered that in the post I'm replying to)? Do all judges judge every thread?

And (as you can probably tell) I am not at all familiar with the concept at all (at all)...in fact I didn't know KMC had a Battlezone forum (and still don't know what a Battlezone forum is), I just noticed cause inimalist sent me the link to the writing tournament no expression

I'll give you a quick writeup in PM, explaining the specifics.

Digi
Originally posted by Oliver North
just to throw it out there, I at least had the decency to promote a strategy with a character I'd never let someone draft into the tourney

again we see, inimalist > digimark

EDIT: anyways draft magic users from the cross-gen universe, nobody knows who they are and they are fantastic. I got a trans level character into a low herald tourney through that method

Lol.

Double-edged sword though. This has happened before, but in nearly every case they lost with a vastly more powerful team because nobody had context for the feats or knew the character well. Obscurity has its pros/cons, and they tend to equal out in many cases. Harder to plan for, harder to create trust in judges about the characters.

Oliver North
Originally posted by Digi
Lol.

Double-edged sword though. This has happened before, but in nearly every case they lost with a vastly more powerful team because nobody had context for the feats or knew the character well. Obscurity has its pros/cons, and they tend to equal out in many cases. Harder to plan for, harder to create trust in judges about the characters.

stick out tongue

oh, I know first hand

Actually, the whole thing is tongue in cheek, I'm just talking shit mostly and trying not to give anything to major away or spoil anyone's plans, same with the Manny example or your Warlock example I suspect smile

That being said, I was 2-0 with Giselle Villard /shrug but ya, spent most of the threads trying to give context to her feats, and I could imagine it being even harder for a less powerful character.

Digi
Khell had Grail (Wildstorm, Wetworks) in a low meta tourney once upon a time. Kid probably could've soloed the whole tourney. I'm not even sure he made the semis. This was before scans were a thing, so while there were a few thrown around in each match, there was absolutely no context for most of what he did.

I hosted that one, so there's some egg on my face for allowing it. But none of us really knew what was going on back then.

Oliver North
Originally posted by Digi
Khell had Grail (Wildstorm, Wetworks) in a low meta tourney once upon a time. Kid probably could've soloed the whole tourney. I'm not even sure he made the semis. This was before scans were a thing, so while there were a few thrown around in each match, there was absolutely no context for most of what he did.

I hosted that one, so there's some egg on my face for allowing it. But none of us really knew what was going on back then.

woah...

lol, thanks be to scans, huh...

Newjak
Originally posted by Digi
Khell had Grail (Wildstorm, Wetworks) in a low meta tourney once upon a time. Kid probably could've soloed the whole tourney. I'm not even sure he made the semis. This was before scans were a thing, so while there were a few thrown around in each match, there was absolutely no context for most of what he did.

I hosted that one, so there's some egg on my face for allowing it. But none of us really knew what was going on back then. I remember that tourney.

I feel like that tourney was what started scan use and it really took off in the next one.

"Id"
http://24.media.tumblr.com/8cf45b54678f4c4d551b106203d0f865/tumblr_moo245eoFT1qdbyylo1_500.gif

Charlotte DeBel
I'm in but as for drafting in time, I'm afraid it will be during my business hours. Anyways, I've got one odd idea and I'd like to try it (not so odd, through, tourney veterans might guess at least "Mind" and "Powers" parts).

"Id"
You guys no better than to bring me into this. Put my name down.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/8cf45b54678f4c4d551b106203d0f865/tumblr_moo245eoFT1qdbyylo1_500.gif

Badabing
Do we have an updated list of the tournament participants?

curryman
Originally posted by Badabing
Do we have an updated list of the tournament participants?

Confirmed participants;

Abhilegend
Leonidas
Damborgson
Psycho Gundam
Sin I Am
Charlotte Debel
ID

Unconfirmed

Srankmissingnin (Not sure about the meta tier)
Zopzop (Showed interest)
Bardock (Showed interst)
Endless Mike (Said he'd check it out)
Emi-ko (showed interest)

I think that is it.

Digi
Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
I'm in but as for drafting in time, I'm afraid it will be during my business hours. Anyways, I've got one odd idea and I'd like to try it (not so odd, through, tourney veterans might guess at least "Mind" and "Powers" parts).

Emma? Miss Martian? Am I close?

wink

Badabing
Originally posted by curryman
Confirmed participants;

Abhilegend
Leonidas
Damborgson
Psycho Gundam
Sin I Am
Charlotte Debel
ID

Unconfirmed

Srankmissingnin (Not sure about the meta tier)
Zopzop (Showed interest)
Bardock (Showed interst)
Endless Mike (Said he'd check it out)
Emi-ko (showed interest)

I think that is it. Nice, seven are in already. thumb up

Endless Mike
I would participate but I can't really think of a good amalgam that falls within the power cap.

Charlotte DeBel
Originally posted by Digi
Emma? Miss Martian? Am I close?

wink
Yeah. Good ol' Emeralda. Though I'm thinking on variant B. Just in case of some PG's Mind pick which is also kinda obvious.

Charlotte DeBel
Asked a question on the PM. I'm afraid I'll have to be predicable one if the centerpiece of my "variant B" amalgam will get banned due to one dubious power.

Bentley
Originally posted by Badabing
Nice, seven are in already. thumb up

And they are a good selection too, looking foward to this.

curryman
Okay guys, announcement.

Draft
- Draft begins next Saturday (July 6th) at 2 pm GMT+0.

- First draft is Body

- PM me with your first draft choice after 2pm GMT+0.

I know its a bit late, but I need a couple of days to finalize things with the members who are on the fence about joining the tournament.

Body Clarification
- These are things that are purely connected to ones body. Durability, strength and so on. The more obvious things.

- Abilities that are innate to ones race, count towards the body thing. Which means that any kind of Kryptonian, Martian, Technarchy, Skrull, Kree and so on.

- However! Keep in mind that you would only draft the physical properties of said race. Skrull shapeshifting would be very difficult for someone who does not have any kind of experience with that body. When you draft someone with a body like this, keep in mind that you might have to make a case proving that they would be able to handle these new/weird powers. Super-strength and speed is one thing, shapeshifting and telepathy is another.

Anyone with questions about potential drafts please PM me or ask in this thread. If you need clarification on a rule then it might be better to ask in this thread, so that you will not just get my opinion, but also that of the judges, whose interpretation is also very important smile

Digi
So miss martian as a body pick would get all martian powers? That wouldn't include something like telepathy, would it? Or just things like shape shifting?

Also, since I'm not sure everyone understands mind, someone like xavier as a mind... Would you get tp? Your distinction on tp and tk was a touch confusing, so I'm trying to make sure it's clarified for everyone.
Also, good job so far. Everythings been prompt and clear.


Add me to the maybe list. I'm on a work trip. If I can get my shit together by Monday or so, I may enter.

Charlotte DeBel
Mutant telepathy = Powers
Skills in use of mental telepathy = Mind
Telepathy as learned magic (Daytripper\Magic II as an example) = Mind
At least that's how that was explained to me.

Also, telepathy is allowed in naturally telepathic body if you pick a telepath as a Mind, otherwise it's not allowed. Same with Warlock\Death's Head II\Omega Sentinel etc. and technopaths.

psycho gundam
i will say right now to nip this psychic/magic-mind/power issue in the bud now or that shitball that's now starting to roll will get too big to be stopped.

Oliver North
don't worry, PG. I'm going to be the hugest pedant, even for me, judging the drafts for that exact reason. I AM THE LAW.

but no, I'm actually sort of with you, and I'd go so far as saying magic is imba in this tourney.

Ambient
Hmm! Sounds interesting.

? - So when u bring for ex. A blackhole via matter manipulation on the battle. Field - would this be breaking the NO OFFENSIVE MATTER manipulation on battlefield rule?

Charlotte DeBel
Magic in fact is dubious one. I need straightforward ruling on it (though it's based on precedent set by Leo's Spiral\Death's Head II\Indigo amalgam). "No spells other than ones seen in comics" ruling streamlines this a bit, though (only slightly).

And what's ever funnier, the old ponies from my stable don't feel so one trick nowsmile

Oliver North
Originally posted by Ambient
Hmm! Sounds interesting.

? - So when u bring for ex. A blackhole via matter manipulation on the battle. Field - would this be breaking the NO OFFENSIVE MATTER manipulation on battlefield rule?

it would be a clear violation of the OHKO rule at least

no high meta should be expected to survive a black hole

Charlotte DeBel
Also that is covered by "only spells shown in comics" for mages and "only handheld equipment" for technomorphs.
I fail to find any gravity controllers at high meta tier that can create true black holes.

Ambient
What's the ohk rule? I'm reading this on my blackberry so its a bit small to see. Lol

Another ? Is there a limit to the amalgam level of power? I mean what if the amalgam can be maid to say project a godwave blast or universal destructive blast.

Ambient
Wait! This is only meta level power for the amalgam. Cause I thought itd be meta drafts pic but not complete amalgamation.

Charlotte DeBel
Meta draft picks. But independent constructs and single spells are capped into meta level. With that limitation and 30 seconds of prep I don't see the majoirty builds passing mid-herald.

BTW, make this 30 seconds a subjective time for amalgam (so it won't matter whether you use a normal human or Northstar, you still get 30 seconds).

Badabing
Originally posted by Ambient
What's the ohk rule? I'm reading this on my blackberry so its a bit small to see. Lol

Another ? Is there a limit to the amalgam level of power? I mean what if the amalgam can be maid to say project a godwave blast or universal destructive blast. No OHK.

Oliver North
Originally posted by Ambient
What's the ohk rule? I'm reading this on my blackberry so its a bit small to see. Lol

Another ? Is there a limit to the amalgam level of power? I mean what if the amalgam can be maid to say project a godwave blast or universal destructive blast.

any body level durability you could draft would be defeated by a black hole, thus making a black hole would be an invalid strat

Ambient
So there's no cap to the amalgam then.

Bad ex. I have there but didn't know godwave is ohk, u can deflect it. Lol

Anyhow if there's room count me in.

Badabing
Originally posted by Ambient
So there's no cap to the amalgam then.

Bad ex. I have there but didn't know godwave is ohk, u can deflect it. Lol

Anyhow if there's room count me in. PM Curryman if you want to join. There are already 7 confirmed with 4 or 5 undecided.

Ambient
Originally posted by Oliver North
any body level durability you could draft would be defeated by a black hole, thus making a black hole would be an invalid strat

Yah! It was an ex.

Ill pm curryman, if there's room.

"Id"
I have a question in regards to powers.

I assume that our Amalgam Characters powers will function, and be as proficient as the original, despite having a different body, and mind?

mhmm

Oliver North
curryman specified that, should you draft a body or power that your mind wouldn't know how to use (his example was the shape-shifting abilities of Skrulls) you wouldn't be a maximum proficiency with it.

This also seems like a huge can of worms.

Oliver North
Originally posted by Ambient
So there's no cap to the amalgam then.

Bad ex. I have there but didn't know godwave is ohk, u can deflect it. Lol

Anyhow if there's room count me in.

what high-meta character can use a God wave?

Ambient
Wonder Woman wink1

Really dough, that was just an example i gave albeit a bad one. Lol

Oliver North
stick out tongue

no, I hear you, it is just that any ruling is going to be dependent on the character, ya? like, god waves or "comic book" black holes aren't banned outright, only in terms of how powerful they are. in theory, anything that wouldn't outright kill a high meta should be allowed, it's just that god waves and black holes tend to be higher than that in almost every instance.

curryman
Ambient, welcome to the tourney big grin
Originally posted by Digi
Also, since I'm not sure everyone understands mind, someone like xavier as a mind... Would you get tp? Your distinction on tp and tk was a touch confusing, so I'm trying to make sure it's clarified for everyone.

Mind and TK pretty much fall under the same ability in my mind. Is that going to be a huge problem/headache for the judges?

If you draft Xavier as mind then you should not get his telepathy since its a power and not something that he learned. However, you would need to draft Karnak's mind in order to get his weakness-detection since its a technique learned through meditation.

Is that too complex? I'm tempted to just push all mind abilities into mind, passive body into body and other powers into powers.

Originally posted by Digi
So miss martian as a body pick would get all martian powers? That wouldn't include something like telepathy, would it? Or just things like shape shifting?

Originally posted by Oliver North
curryman specified that, should you draft a body or power that your mind wouldn't know how to use (his example was the shape-shifting abilities of Skrulls) you wouldn't be a maximum proficiency with it.

This also seems like a huge can of worms.

I tried to make a distinction between the "passive" abilities of someone's body and the "active" ones. So that if you actually wanted to use Miss Martian's telepathy or a Skrull's shapeshifting, you would need an experienced telepath or shapeshifter in their bodies.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
i will say right now to nip this psychic/magic-mind/power issue in the bud now or that shitball that's now starting to roll will get too big to be stopped.

I intentionally left slack limitations on telepathy in the rules since I was hoping to see some psionics get drafted, but like I mentioned earlier, if its too much work to specifically determine whether a character's abilities fall into power or mind, I can make a stricter ruling on it smile

Originally posted by Oliver North
don't worry, PG. I'm going to be the hugest pedant, even for me, judging the drafts for that exact reason. I AM THE LAW.

but no, I'm actually sort of with you, and I'd go so far as saying magic is imba in this tourney.

Good! Be the law!

We need strict judges, and I feel like I might be too slack.

Oliver North
I just remember the tourney I tried to host. I left things like time manip or other typically banned abilities open because I wanted to foster more creativity. It ended up being a huge cluster**** because of how open ended it was.

I'm not saying make things super strict, just that a lot of the restrictions that exist are based on previous experience and are there because they are so open to abuse. Just be prepared for contestants to push every limit you tried to set, for as cordial and friendly of an environment that these tourneys are, contestants are working to win, not to make it fair or work well, and they are trying to find the ways around your restrictions rather than working within them.

Ambient
Originally posted by Oliver North
stick out tongue

no, I hear you, it is just that any ruling is going to be dependent on the character, ya? like, god waves or "comic book" black holes aren't banned outright, only in terms of how powerful they are. in theory, anything that wouldn't outright kill a high meta should be allowed, it's just that god waves and black holes tend to be higher than that in almost every instance.
Aight! But just to make clear no limit cap on amalgam.

i can take damage as body and say Cloak as power and make them go critical for a Big Bang attack - cept I know it's ohk. Just an example.

That's the fun of tourney finding out ways of limits.

Oliver North
you'd have to ask curryman for that type of specifics, I am beholden to his rulings on those things

Ambient
Aight! I'll do that.

Digi
You're still going to have lots of these types of questions, but curry's general approach makes sense to me.

Be prepared to make some in-match rulings though.

Originally posted by Oliver North
I just remember the tourney I tried to host. I left things like time manip or other typically banned abilities open because I wanted to foster more creativity. It ended up being a huge cluster**** because of how open ended it was.

I'm not saying make things super strict, just that a lot of the restrictions that exist are based on previous experience and are there because they are so open to abuse. Just be prepared for contestants to push every limit you tried to set, for as cordial and friendly of an environment that these tourneys are, contestants are working to win, not to make it fair or work well, and they are trying to find the ways around your restrictions rather than working within them.

All of this.

Omega Vision
Perhaps instead of making lots of absolute restrictions there should be some wiggle room, where whether a tactic is made illegal is decided on a case by case/reasonable person basis. The judges/host(s) could look at the tactic and decide if it violates the spirit of the tourney. Just a suggestion.

Btw, do we have a current list of judges?

Oliver North
It generally becomes a case-by-case thing anyways, especially as people's plans flesh out. Its more eliminating the things that we know are problematic from previous experience. Like power mimicing or body duplication or constructs, etc. Other tournaments have been brought to a halt because of those things... Or God-Cable... he literally was powerful enough to kill my tournament.

Blair Wind
I'm pretty sure that I am the one to blame for a lot of those powers being banned. I know long pig also helped with the duplication thing (we both had duplicators in a match. "My thousand guys beat your thousand guys".) laughing out loud

psycho gundam
Originally posted by Oliver North
Other tournaments have been brought to a halt because of those things... Or God-Cable... he literally was powerful enough to kill my tournament.

1 O-ren Ishii
Cottonmouth

2 Vernita Green
Copperhead

3 Budd
Side Winder

4 Elle Driver
California mountain Snake

5 God-Cable
Solid Snake


6 DIGI
Yellow-bellied Snake

Ambient
Originally posted by Oliver North
It generally becomes a case-by-case thing anyways, especially as people's plans flesh out. Its more eliminating the things that we know are problematic from previous experience. Like power mimicing or body duplication or constructs, etc. Other tournaments have been brought to a halt because of those things... Or God-Cable... he literally was powerful enough to kill my tournament.

Spoil sport! I thought u wanted creativity wink . Thought I still lost - got neutered and judge not strong enough against immortal construct and Magneto's encounter with a very early version of Cable. glare lol

Oliver North
I did, and you guys showed me creativity can't be the most important consideration in a tournament. I gave you way more than enough rope to hang me with.

Charlotte DeBel
A bunch of whiny guys...Well... Lady can dream of things... like tourneys where technopaths finally got neutered in favor of psis and mages.

Digi
With the mind/body nonsense, pretty much each time an odd character is drafted, curry and/or judges can clarify what they'd have access to. Case by case is fine. As long as we know what's up beforehand, there shouldn't be huge problems.

Though there will undoubtedly be lots of substitutions in drafting.

Originally posted by Blair Wind
I'm pretty sure that I am the one to blame for a lot of those powers being banned. I know long pig also helped with the duplication thing (we both had duplicators in a match. "My thousand guys beat your thousand guys".) laughing out loud

Maybe not all. But yeah, at least a couple. The duplicators were just the most obvious.

More specifically, a lot of these things would have been lost to history if I hadn't cataloged them in the guide to hosting tourneys. That's where curry pulled these from most recently.

So, to all tourney participants...you're welcome?

evil face

Charlotte DeBel
By the way, now that God Cable was mentioned, how shall we handle the characters that are in the meta tier only because of their body, with pure "powers" being in the herald tier?
THIS is a can of worms and not psionics/magic thing.

Oliver North
psionics are hardly a can of worms; it is either a mind ability or a power, and it has to be below the herald power level. Magic is imbalanced because it is a mind-power, so any participant who doesn't have the mind of someone who knows magic (or a learned telepath) is hindering themselves, unless they have a very specific strategy. Magic basically allows you to have the powers of 2 characters, and a good body selection gives you 3. So a Man-Thing body + Dr. Strange mind + whatever power, for example, is going to be a huge advantage over someone who goes, for instance, Colossus body + Cap's mind + whatever power. The imbalance forces contestants to either have a very good idea of the strategy they want to use beforehand or select characters that maximize the number of powers they have access to. In this way, magic or learned psychic abilities are nearly obligatory. I actually think this is what curryman intended, and I'm not against it, I'm just explaining my statement a bit better.

to your powers question Charlotte, if you drafted herald level powers, that would be banned... I can't see the problem you envision? Like, to God-Cable specifically, you aren't drafting "God-Cable", you are drafting "God-Cable's" mind. If his mind is above meta, it shouldn't be allowed.

the "real" issue I see at this point is going to be more about equipment. Say someone selects Iron Man as one of their characters, how much of his tech would they have access to? Or with Strange, would having his mind also give access to all of his magical items to equip during prep? There is going to be a major issue with this that will border on "amping", and I'm personally still unclear as to the upper tier limit for the amalgam in general. If a contestant selects the right characters to give them an amalgam that is clearly high herald (and I don't think that is improbable) is that ok?

LOL, jeez, I should probably hold back a bit on the rules here, not my call, sorry curryman, please chastise me if this is not what you had intended, I'll try to be a less neurotic control-freak...

Charlotte DeBel
Mind has always been more about equipment. Leo and Blair were the only ones who went round it (Leo more sophisticatedly with Spiral, Blair with Moonstone, but that's just because her power source counts as equipement).
"Usual" Mind picks in the latest tourney under those rules were Starks, Reeds and the likes.

Charlotte DeBel
Originally posted by Digi
IX.

Tournament:
High Meta Amalgam Tourney

Host:
Darthgoober

Entrant List:
Blair Wind
Devil Lance
Entity
Joey Stack
King Kandy
leonidas
long pig
MartianMind
Newjak
Roldz
Scoobless
TricksterPriest

Winner:
Scoobless

Runner-Up:
Blair Wind

Other Places (if applicable):
N/A

Winning Team:
Sasquatch
Yellowjacket (Hank Pym)
Moonstone

Links:
Discussion Thread - http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=447567
Finals (Scoobless vs. Blair Wind) - http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=462611
Trickster vs. Martian - http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=454338
Newjak vs. Roldz - http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=453031

General Comments:
Having survived a failed attempt at a high meta/low herald tourney that involved 4-man teams, darthgoober lowered the character limits some and made a traditional amalgam tourney. As with other tourneys, the veterans showed up in force and had good showings. Scoobless claimed an unprecedented 4th tourney title, and Blair Wind added to his impressive tournament resume. Leonidas, another former tourney champion, made it to the semi-finals in only his second tournament ever.

The defining strategy for this tournament was Scoobless' "Godzilla" approach, simply making Sasquatch so big with Pym's powers that it was nigh-impossible for the other participants to hurt him. If nothing else, it proved to be an interesting visual for the battle.

Champion Comments:

"The Godzilla Plan"

I had a lot of fun with this tourney, I honestly wasn't taking it seriously at first, I wasn't thinking of clever ways to win or what tech I could use, the intention was to keep it simple. I figured the easiest way to amplify a character's physical strength was to use a grower (Hank Pym in this case) if his power can turn a regular man into a class 50+ then it should make an already powerful character practically invincible at this level. A later realisation, that I could use Moonstone's control of her own gravity to access heights Pym could never reach alone due to pressure on his body from his own weight, meant that I could take my finals match one step farther.

lol, I had Bigfoot (named by Digimark btw) destroy 3 of the 4 battlefields he fought on -

Grand Canyon - Destroyed
Death Star - Destroyed
Earth - Destroyed

The only reason the arctic battlefield survived was because I opted to use Pym's shrinking powers for the majority of that match.

Overwhelming offensive power + untouchable defense = tourney win

cool

An amusing fact, this was the second "Iron Man Level" tournament, and both times Iron Man has failed to take a win (last time by me in a final match against BW, this time by BW in a final match against me)

The lesson - Don't select the character that embodies the power cap for the tourney ... you'll only lose.


Oh yeah, another great thing about this tourney was that I got to post pics like these to give people an idea how the matches might go:

http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/7660/comparison3vc2.jpg

http://img483.imageshack.us/img483/4057/bigfootvsigwav6.jpg

http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/3237/amalgam1ar8.jpg

big grin

"Id"
Originally posted by Oliver North
I did, and you guys showed me creativity can't be the most important consideration in a tournament. I gave you way more than enough rope to hang me with.

Creativity has always worked against me.

Always.

uhuh

curryman
Originally posted by Oliver North
Say someone selects Iron Man as one of their characters, how much of his tech would they have access to? Or with Strange, would having his mind also give access to all of his magical items to equip during prep?
I initially envisioned a prep-time where you had all three characters' equipment pooled, but realize that with only 30 sec prep-time this is too much. Considering how much of an advantage magicians have, how does this sound for a equipment.

You only get the equipment of the character you've chosen for mind.

Originally posted by Oliver North
There is going to be a major issue with this that will border on "amping", and I'm personally still unclear as to the upper tier limit for the amalgam in general. If a contestant selects the right characters to give them an amalgam that is clearly high herald (and I don't think that is improbable) is that ok?
Once the amalgamations are finalized I expect them all to be well over high-meta. The power-limitation is supposed to be on character drafting only, and kind of assumed that it would be impossible to draft 3 metas, mesh their strengths together and not come up with something at least low herald.

The restriction on power amping is specifically getting the powers of say Fabian Cortez and then boosting the hell out of Man-Thing's body and some magician's mind.


Technically shooting at Tony Stark with a machine-gun would be a OHKO. I made the rule to specifically prevent attacks that are OHKO by their very nature. Attacks that circumvent any kind of durability, force-field, etc. Such as Zatanna telling people to die.

There's a difference between a death-ability and a powerful attack, and I hope people grasp that difference. If not, rely on hard-ass judges to set you straight smile

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Btw, do we have a current list of judges?

The Honourable Delph
The Amiable Jake
The French Bentley
The Spicy Curryman
The Eternal Omega Vision
The Irangate Oliver North

Originally posted by Digi
Be prepared to make some in-match rulings though.
Originally posted by Digi
Pretty much each time an odd character is drafted, curry and/or judges can clarify what they'd have access to.
Though there will undoubtedly be lots of substitutions in drafting.

Originally posted by Oliver North
It generally becomes a case-by-case thing anyways, especially as people's plans flesh out.
This.

Ambient
Originally posted by Oliver North
to your powers question Charlotte, if you drafted herald level powers, that would be banned... I can't see the problem you envision? Like, to God-Cable specifically, you aren't drafting "God-Cable", you are drafting "God-Cable's" mind. If his mind is above meta, it shouldn't be allowed.

the "real" issue I see at this point is going to be more about equipment. Say someone selects Iron Man as one of their characters, how much of his tech would they have access to? Or with Strange, would having his mind also give access to all of his magical items to equip during prep? There is going to be a major issue with this that will border on "amping", and I'm personally still unclear as to the upper tier limit for the amalgam in general. If a contestant selects the right characters to give them an amalgam that is clearly high herald (and I don't think that is improbable) is that ok?

LOL, jeez, I should probably hold back a bit on the rules here, not my call, sorry curryman, please chastise me if this is not what you had intended, I'll try to be a less neurotic control-freak...
Yah! Equipment needs to be a bit clearer. Like say someone picking a mind character - ie. warlock or moondragon, would they're soul or mind gem be available? Same goes for the body - ie. Old drax with power gem in body.

And yes in regards to upper limit of amalgam? Is there a limit. I can think of a few with the right combination that can be pretty much indestructible or reality manipulator. With that they can pretty much make things up in battle.

Charlotte DeBel
That was usual thing in the previous tourney under such rules (high meta, mind/body/powers) so that's what I expected from this one. Though I think that it will be a nice and lovely thing of a tournamentsmile

Charlotte DeBel

Ambient
So if u pick Thor as mind u'd get mjolnir as well? Aight! but no equipment on the body even if its integrated directly on it. - ie Darkness, witch blade or taboo.

curryman
Originally posted by Ambient
So if u pick Thor as mind u'd get mjolnir as well? Aight! but no equipment on the body even if its integrated directly on it. - ie Darkness, witch blade or taboo.

If it's a part of the body then it would be allowed, but it needs to fully be a part of the body.

If you drafted Thor's body then you wouldn't get mjolnir.

You would however get Engineers metallic skin (since the nanites were swapped with her blood), Metallo's kryptonite stuff, Grim Reaper's handscythe, etc

Ambient
For equipments. Does it only pertains to regular one that's carried normally like say WW wristlets or can I also get her other weapons?

curryman
Originally posted by Ambient
For equipments. Does it only pertains to regular one that's carried normally like say WW wristlets or can I also get her other weapons?

You get standard, or whatever you choose to grab in the 30 seconds that you can.

psycho gundam
hold up..... (i have a day off tomorrow so i caught this before bed)

Originally posted by curryman
- The amalgamated characters' resources have been conveniently pooled
this was stated, but maybe things were changed?

curryman
Originally posted by psycho gundam
hold up..... (i have a day off tomorrow so i caught this before bed)

this was stated, but maybe things were changed?

Yeah, I realize now that it would be too much.

I will PM and ask if Bada can change it into only having the Mind character's resources.

Digi
Go ahead and count me in. I'll have half a dozen questions via PM soon, but can't really talk until Monday or Tuesday.

Galan007
Originally posted by curryman
Step 1; Drafting
Choose any 3 characters from High Meta or below.

- No going past 99% of light-speed Hm, that seems like quite a speed cap for such a low tier. If someone drafts a speedster capable of traveling that fast, have fun trying to avoid a blitz. thumb up

Charlotte DeBel
Speed cap is Northstar/Aurora, yes. MAYBE Jay Garrick/Max Mercury/other low tier Speed Force users.

Galan007
Yes, I know which meta-class characters can move at those speeds. All I'm saying is that unless both contestants have a speedster on their team, then a blitz at 99% the speed of light will be problematic to avoid. Not impossible, but quite difficult.

Omega Vision
Originally posted by Galan007
Hm, that seems like quite a speed cap for such a low tier. If someone drafts a speedster capable of traveling that fast, have fun trying to avoid a blitz. thumb up
Are you thinking a cap at something like Mach 100?

Charlotte DeBel
Mach 10 was usually a cap for such a level. Maybe Mach 20?

Omega Vision
Mach 20 could work, but then so could Mach 50 or Mach 100. I don't know if there are any characters who could defeat a Mach 20 speedblitz but would get wrecked by a Mach 50 or Mach 100 blitz.

Anything above Mach 1 should pretty much destroy anyone without superhuman reflexes--training and skills be damned, but with characters like Deathstroke, Iron Fist, Spiderman, and Midnighter who can deal with Mach 1 speeds it's impossible to put a fix on exactly what is 'too fast' short of sublight or lightspeed.

I just suggest Mach 100 because it's an incredibly fast sublight velocity but one that isn't anywhere close to light speed, and the same can be said for 20 and 50, but 100 is a nice even number with lots of factors. stick out tongue

psycho gundam
i'm bringing the spotlight onto mental powers.
not much limitations on it like for instance how mind control is still on the table.

"Id"
Bunch of wimps.

All this neutering wont mean a thing.

http://www.mwctoys.com/images/Apocalypse_05.jpg

Omega Vision
That's why Plastic Man is a good pick. Though I wonder, would his TP resistance be a factor of his body or his mind?

psycho gundam
he's low herald and immortal.

---------------

edit* is there a "day time" partner for curryman cause i take it he's in another time-zone? one of the judges, possibly inamalist could fill that role

leonidas
plas would certainly be above the durability cap of high meta, and....there is a lot of "picks" talk going on this time for some reason. might i suggest people pm if there is any reason to mention specific characters--unless they are clearly out of the cap range of course.

Omega Vision
I apologize if this has been addressed already, but are there going to be specific battlegrounds or are the amalgams going to clash in an arena environment?

Blair Wind
Originally posted by Digi
Maybe not all. But yeah, at least a couple. The duplicators were just the most obvious.

The duplicators and power absorption I know caused a shitstorm when I used them.

Originally posted by Digi
Go ahead and count me in. I'll have half a dozen questions via PM soon, but can't really talk until Monday or Tuesday.

As a participant? Good little turn out of vets.

Originally posted by Galan007
Yes, I know which meta-class characters can move at those speeds. All I'm saying is that unless both contestants have a speedster on their team, then a blitz at 99% the speed of light will be problematic to avoid. Not impossible, but quite difficult.

You have 30 seconds of prep. Most people (most) will have someone that can put shields up.

Originally posted by leonidas
plas would certainly be above the durability cap of high meta, and....there is a lot of "picks" talk going on this time for some reason. might i suggest people pm if there is any reason to mention specific characters--unless they are clearly out of the cap range of course.

I'm pretty sure that people are talking about powersets and then using an example of someone in a higher class to disguise their actual picks.

Charlotte DeBel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASA_X-43
The current speed record in atmosphere for hypersonic aircrafts is Mach 10 thus I find this number fitting.
But yes, shielding/intangibility/lots of means to survive blitz.

Galan007
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Are you thinking a cap at something like Mach 100? Some kind of lower-end cap seems more realistic. 99% the speed of light is phucking fast for a meta-level tourney, imo. That's roughly 983,571,056fps.

But I'm not competing in this thing, so it's ultimately up to the people who are.

Originally posted by Blair Wind
You have 30 seconds of prep. Most people (most) will have someone that can put shields up. True, but then you have to hope that your meta-level pick has light speed-esque reactions in order to manifest said FF before they are blitzed immediately as the battle starts. Just saying.

Blair Wind
I meant that they would raise shields before the match even starts. That's not illegal.

Galan007
"- Prep-time is strictly 30 seconds to choose your gear, nothing can be created"

Does that stip not apply to FF creation?

Blair Wind
I figured it meant more in terms of tech creation or construct creation (ie: if you can control earth and create golems or something).

Galan007
curryman should probably clarify that rule, because if FF/shield creation is forbidden before the match starts(which is what that rule implies to me), then the fastest amalgam will likely dominate this tourney.

But again, it is entirely up to those who are participating.

Digi
Plastic man is low herald.

Why are we talking about jay garrick. He's generally not considered high meta either. Northstar could probably run a train, but it's not like there aren't counters out there. Someone needs to have the fastest amalgam after all.

I agree about the speed cap in general though. Not sure who could hit that close to light, but it should probably be lower.

Digi
Speaking of examples, take someone like iron man. To get the suit do you draft the body, powers, or mind? And if body, do you get powers that aren't strength and durability? I'm not considering tony, but I have a similar situation.

Blair Wind
To get the suit, imo, you would have to draft mind (since it's equipment). Same could go for Green Lantern (as an example).

I guess a case could be made for power (since pre-extremis he was just a human guy and the suit was his "power"wink. You would have no idea how to actually use his suit though.

Omega Vision
I would think that base equipment should fall under the "powers" category. Equipment created using the thirty minute prep should clearly be "mind" though.

For instance, if you drafted Bruce Wayne for powers (not that anyone would, lol) I would expect to net the utility belt, a grappling cable, some batterangs, and lots of money.

Blair Wind
Originally posted by Digi
Speaking of examples, take someone like iron man. To get the suit do you draft the body, powers, or mind? And if body, do you get powers that aren't strength and durability? I'm not considering tony, but I have a similar situation.

Originally posted by Blair Wind
To get the suit, imo, you would have to draft mind (since it's equipment). Same could go for Green Lantern (as an example).

I guess a case could be made for power (since pre-extremis he was just a human guy and the suit was his "power"wink. You would have no idea how to actually use his suit though.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I would think that base equipment should fall under the "powers" category. Equipment created using the thirty minute prep should clearly be "mind" though.

Thirty seconds. And you can't create anything in prep.

curryman
- Good call on the speed limit. Do the judges have any suggestions/preferences on where it should be set?

- You can raise forcefields in the prep-time, but it's 30 seconds and this is also where you grab gear so it's best not to try anything overly complex.

- Like Blair Wind stated you may not create anything in the prep-time.

- You need to draft Mind to get access to equipment.

Feel free to direct any questions to Oliver North or the other judges. I'm in GMT +8 smile

psycho gundam
so....mind control is still legal?

this will be the first time in a tournament where i have to worry about not controlling my own characters... huh

Omega Vision
Originally posted by curryman
- Good call on the speed limit. Do the judges have any suggestions/preferences on where it should be set?
Well, I suggested Mach 100, but as I also said I believe it doesn't really matter if you're at Mach 10, 20, 50, or 100 because any character who can defeat a Mach 10 speedblitz will probably defeat a Mach 100 speedblitz (it's nigh impossible to gauge speeds like that unless exact numbers are given, which is a rarity in comics) but charlotte suggested Mach 10, and that might be a neater number.

curryman
Then I'm going to go with mach 10 unless there are any explicit objections to that smile

Originally posted by psycho gundam
so....mind control is still legal?

this will be the first time in a tournament where i have to worry about not controlling my own characters... huh

I didn't add a rule about it, and here's why.

Normally it goes like this, in the comics;

In order to control someone's mind you need to fully and completely overwhelm their psychic defenses. This is very hard. This is a contest of wills.

In order to mental blast someone, you just need to attack them.

If you're in a position where their telepathy is so far above your amalgam's telepathic defenses then mental control shouldn't be your biggest worry, because their mental blasts would do such a number on you.

Like I've said before, if you've drafted a mind-character without any kind of telepathic-defenses/real willpower feats, then the fault lies not with the rules.

I could throw down a ban mental-control, but I don't think I have to. While I don't consider telepathy to be the end-all be-all in this tourney, it needs to be considered. You can't throw out an amalgam with no way of warding off a telepathic assault smile

psycho gundam
http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/random%20shit/ifii_zpsaec6666f.png

Digi
I'm happy with mach 10. If you get mind controlled, it's probably your fault. I'd be okay with a ban on it, but I don't think it's necessary.

Thanks for the IM clarification. Helps me immensely.

Charlotte DeBel
I've suggested Mach 10 cause as I've said that's what the fastersr IRL atmospheric aircraft was clocked at.
Damn, with tourney host living at GMT+8 suddenly a GMT+2 timezone is a blessing (it WAS a blessing in Illadelph's Champion's League too cause 10-hours difference between Eastern Europe and California was good for last-minute post-blitzes).

leonidas
i've lost it in the thread. when are drafts again?

Charlotte DeBel
On the 6th of July at 2PM GMT+0 (10 AM in New York).

<< THERE IS MORE FROM THIS THREAD HERE >>