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CS is unleashed like he was in the Gog arc.
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg587/golgi7777/CS_zps6b4182d0.jpg

vs

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg587/golgi7777/KS_zpsb1e96d71.jpg

Originally posted by Golgo13
CS is unleashed like he was in the Gog arc.
http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg587/golgi7777/CS_zps6b4182d0.jpg

vs

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg587/golgi7777/KS_zpsb1e96d71.jpg Amped Kurse would win

Kurse wins.

Kurse wrecks him.

Kurse

Kurse...

Steel. Kurse is strong, but Steel no sold a punch from a guy who was whooping on 2 different Supermen at the same time. Then he beat that same guys ass.

Originally posted by KingD19
Steel. Kurse is strong, but Steel no sold a punch from a guy who was whooping on 2 different Supermen at the same time. Then he beat that same guys ass.

LOL @ Kurse owning this guy. Didn't Gog also beat the entire JSA at one point? Until Steel stepped in.

Yeah. The entire JSA backing Superman and an alt U Superman. Then Steel took his suit off which drastically lessens his powers. And even then let's say the full suit puts him at 0%. He only took the top half off, so he was still held back by the bottom half. At 50% of his power he took down Gog.

Kurse

Originally posted by KingD19
Yeah. The entire JSA backing Superman and an alt U Superman. Then Steel took his suit off which drastically lessens his powers. And even then let's say the full suit puts him at 0%. He only took the top half off, so he was still held back by the bottom half. At 50% of his power he took down Gog.

Lessens is powers? Like his durability/strength? I thought it amped him.

No, it's a containment suit to keep the environment and bad guys safe from Steel, so he doesn't murder all of them with a punch. The suit is made from the same material used on space ships and has to be melted and put on in a mold. It weakens him because without it he can't control his strength and would be wrecking the city just by walking around.

It puts about 280,000lbs per square inch of pressure on him. So ripping half of it off took half of that dampening effect away.

when the suit is on he's called "WWS (steel)" and when it's off he's called 'WBS". pick one or the other cause they're separate incarnations

What is up with CS's boner?

Originally posted by Sh3nG L0nG
What is up with CS's boner?

Boner of Steel?

Originally posted by Golgo13
Boner of Steel?
If it can be used offensively, he stomps.

all he needs is Fe

That thing'll poke someones eye out.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Lessens is powers? Like his durability/strength? I thought it amped him. The suit weakens him because it has a tensile strength of OVER 280,000lbs per square inch and is completely unjointed:
http://s238.photobucket.com/user/Galan_photos/media/cs0.jpg.html
So the simple act of CS moving would require him to exert hundreds of thousands of pounds of force. Uber.

On that note, CS shredding/crumpling his suit like cheap toilet paper is an extremely uber strength feat in its own right:
http://s238.photobucket.com/user/Galan_photos/media/cs4.jpg.html

As was mentioned, CS not only tanked a punch from Gog(the JSA-wrecker), but he tooled him with a single shot:
http://s238.photobucket.com/user/Galan_photos/media/cs1.jpg.html
http://s238.photobucket.com/user/Galan_photos/media/cs2.jpg.html
...Not even Source-amped Infinity Man was able to tool Gog in an equal amount of time.

And finally: after removing his armor, CS was able to down Gog(the God,) with a mere two punches:
http://s238.photobucket.com/user/Galan_photos/media/cs5.jpg.html
http://s238.photobucket.com/user/Galan_photos/media/cs6.jpg.html

Not even the combined efforts of the entire JSA (inc. KC Superman, Alan Scott, Obsidian, Thunderbolt, etc) were able to come close to doing that:
http://s238.photobucket.com/user/Galan_photos/media/cs3.jpg.html

Kurse wins.

Originally posted by KingD19
Yeah. The entire JSA backing Superman and an alt U Superman. Then Steel took his suit off which drastically lessens his powers. And even then let's say the full suit puts him at 0%. He only took the top half off, so he was still held back by the bottom half. At 50% of his power he took down Gog.

Citizen Steel toppled Gog by going for his ankle while the JSA tried to pull him down. And it was after Atom reduced his body to a mess, I even remember his arm barely holding out IIRC. Two completely different methods of approach on a body in completely different conditions.

There was a reason why Superman was able to casually rip off his head. Context is important. Also, there's a big difference in between pushing over a building and taking one down by removing a support beam. Steel is nowhere near as strong as Kurse from what I remember.

Edit: Here's the scene for people to decide for themselves:
http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16107037_Justice_Society_of_America_022-04.jpg http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16107038_Justice_Society_of_America_022-05.jpg http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16107039_Justice_Society_of_America_022-08.jpg http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16107041_Justice_Society_of_America_022-10.jpg http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/16107079_Justice_Society_of_America_022-1213.jpghttp://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16107042_Justice_Society_of_America_022-14.jpg http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16107044_Justice_Society_of_America_022-15.jpg

Steel had minimal showings, but they're more impressive than Kurse's IMO

Originally posted by Cogito
Steel had minimal showings, but they're more impressive than Kurse's IMO

Maybe I'm forgetting some but the Gog scene had context.

It's like posting a scan of Masteron potentially killing Thanos with the IG and ignoring the fact that he was limiting himself. It's cool but it's important to know the circumstances.

Kurse beat Thor with his belt of power and is certainly more than twice as strong as Thor. Its his iron weakness which would be his problem here. Steel is certainly strong enough to hurt him. Honestly I would put KC superman as at least 1.5 or 1.75 times stronger than Thor and Steel was FAR stronger than him at his suited form much less his non-suited form.

What?

Superman would beat Steel senseless.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Maybe I'm forgetting some but the Gog scene had context.

It's like posting a scan of Masteron potentially killing Thanos with the IG and ignoring the fact that he was limiting himself. It's cool but it's important to know the circumstances.
Steel also made herald Gog his ***** when he KOED KC superman and Amazin Man copying his staff's power at the same time. He literally no sold his punch.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Kurse beat Thor with his belt of power and is certainly more than twice as strong as Thor. Its his iron weakness which would be his problem here. Steel is certainly strong enough to hurt him. Honestly I would put KC superman as at least 1.5 or 1.75 times stronger than Thor and Steel was FAR stronger than him at his suited form much less his non-suited form.

Citizen Steel was far stronger then Superman? Really?

Then I have to re-read the series and reevaluate his strength. I would have said he was below Superman but due to his composition was much harder to budge. If that's the case then this is a much closer fight then I thought.

Originally posted by curryman
What?

Superman would beat Steel senseless.
No he wouldn't. Not Johns version at least.

Originally posted by abhilegend
No he wouldn't. Not Johns version at least.

Gog probably wouldn't move the blob either...

Originally posted by abhilegend
Steel also made herald Gog his ***** when he KOED KC superman and Amazin Man copying his staff's power at the same time. He literally no sold his punch.

Send an issue number my way through PMs. I'll re-read it and post scans when I get back from work.

I want to see how Magog took out Superman, I remember re-reading his series and I honestly didn't think he was even close to Wonder Woman's level.

Originally posted by curryman
Gog probably wouldn't move the blob either...
Grey hulk did that. Citizen steel doesn't manipulate gravity like Blob. Its just a standard no selling tactic, superman has done that many times.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Citizen Steel was far stronger then Superman? Really?

Then I have to re-read the series and reevaluate his strength. I would have said he was below Superman but due to his composition was much harder to budge. If that's the case then this is a much closer fight then I thought.
Yeah, he was. Just compare Gog vs KC Superman/Amazing Man and Gog vs Steel and you would see just how ****ing strong he was.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Grey hulk did that. Citizen steel doesn't manipulate gravity like Blob. Its just a standard no selling tactic, superman has done that many times.

I know, just saying.

Steel's hard to move and he hit Gog.

Ok.

Kurse beats him.

Man, seems like Superman after his initial appearance was bitched out if someone like Magog was portrayed as anywhere near him in terms of raw strength imho. I remember not being impressed at all by him in his solo series.

That's the problem of having such an uber team. Alan Scott and Thunderbolt alone should end almost anything but Black Adam has raped them both with punches. Pisses me off man.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah, he was. Just compare Gog vs KC Superman/Amazing Man and Gog vs Steel and you would see just how ****ing strong he was.

Alright, so I'm guessing this was JSA All Stars? I'll pick it up later.

I'm going to read everyone of his appearances when I have time, I like the character. Although I was always remembered thinking he was Mid tier strength wise, I don't know.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Send an issue number my way through PMs. I'll re-read it and post scans when I get back from work.

I want to see how Magog took out Superman, I remember re-reading his series and I honestly didn't think he was even close to Wonder Woman's level.
No need to send a PM. Here's the scan courtesy of Galan.

Gog vs KC Superman/Amazin man

http://s272.photobucket.com/albums/jj172/galan007_pics/?action=view&current=jsagog_jsa7.jpg
http://s272.photobucket.com/albums/jj172/galan007_pics/?action=view&current=jsagog_jsa8.jpg
http://s272.photobucket.com/albums/jj172/galan007_pics/?action=view&current=jsagog_jsa9.jpg

KTFO both and choking them like a ***** with one hand.

Gog vs Steel

http://s238.photobucket.com/albums/ff191/Galan_photos/?action=view&current=cs1.jpg
http://s238.photobucket.com/albums/ff191/Galan_photos/?action=view&current=cs2.jpg

Also you made it look like downing Gog was no feat at all. Look who is trying to drop him here?

http://s238.photobucket.com/albums/ff191/Galan_photos/?action=view&current=cs3.jpg

Not even the combined efforts of the entire JSA (inc. KC Superman, Alan Scott, Obsidian, Thunderbolt, etc) were able to come close to doing that.

He's much stronger than KC Superman, much less superman.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Man, seems like Superman after his initial appearance was bitched out if someone like Magog was portrayed as anywhere near him in terms of raw strength imho. I remember not being impressed at all by him in his solo series.

That's the problem of having such an uber team. Alan Scott and Thunderbolt alone should end almost anything but Black Adam has raped them both with punches. Pisses me off man.
Not Magog, just Gog. The guy who attacked Superman in Wrath of Gog and who Superman oneshotted.

Yeah, Adam was like Goldberg in Johns' run. Alan Scott, Thunderbolt, King Marvel all jobbed to him. Honestly the guy never got a single low showing under Johns and never got KOED. Its like Johns has a crush on sinestro, hal, barry and Adam.

Originally posted by curryman
I know, just saying.

Steel's hard to move and he hit Gog.

Ok.

Kurse beats him.
Steel no selled Gog because he's just that ****ing strong, not that he's like Blob.

I've no problem with Kurse beating Steel./shrug

Question about Kurse's vulnerability to iron...

Does it have to be pure iron to weaken him, or can an iron-containing alloy(steel, for example) weaken him?

Citizen steel was a great character. I miss the old JSA comics. I think Steel wins unless Kurse has more feats than I know about.

Originally posted by SevenShackles
Citizen steel was a great character. I miss the old JSA comics. I think Steel wins unless Kurse has more feats than I know about.
Here is Kurse's best feat, beating Belt of Strength Thor.

http://imageshack.us/a/img689/2124/mt36309.th.jpg http://imageshack.us/a/img809/5810/mt36310.th.jpg http://imageshack.us/a/img407/3431/mt36312.th.jpg http://imageshack.us/a/img14/5783/mt36313.th.jpg http://imageshack.us/a/img707/2420/mt36314.th.jpg

Originally posted by Galan007
Question about Kurse's vulnerability to iron...

Does it have to be pure iron to weaken him, or can an iron-containing alloy(steel, for example) weaken him? Also, has iron ever actually been used against him?

Originally posted by Galan007
The suit weakens him because it has a tensile strength of OVER 280,000lbs per square inch and is completely unjointed:
http://s238.photobucket.com/user/Galan_photos/media/cs0.jpg.html
So the simple act of CS moving would require him to exert hundreds of thousands of pounds of force. Uber.
Color me not impressed.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Color me not impressed. If you aren't at least slightly impressed by the forces required to bend Steel's suit, then you either don't understand what those numbers mean, or you are simply lowballing.

Just for CS to bend a single square inch of his suit requires him to exert over 280,000psi. That said, the hand of an average adult male is roughly 21 square inches-- so in order for CS to preform an action as simple as making a fist requires him to exert a total force of nearly 6,000,000psi.

...And all of that is simply to neuter his overall strength just enough so he doesn't destroy everyone/thing he touches. Sorry, but this is impressive.

Originally posted by Galan007
If you aren't at least slightly impressed by the forces required to bend Steel's suit, then you either don't understand what those numbers mean, or you are simply lowballing.

Just for CS to bend a single square inch of his suit requires him to exert over 280,000psi. That said, the hand of an average adult male is roughly 21 square inches-- so in order for CS to form a fist requires him to exert a total force of nearly 6,000,000psi.

...And all of that is simply to neuter his overall strength just enough so he doesn't injure/kill everyone/thing he touches. Sorry, but this is impressive.
I know perfectly well what those numbers mean, and I also know that such level of tensile stress/strain is nowhere near the run of the mill strength feats high heralds have managed to perform in the past.

Also, there's a real-life nickel-beryllium alloy that has the same tensile strength as that fictional stainless steel alloy, and I am willing to wager that people like Thor or Hulk could easily rip it apart without breaking a sweat, were it ever referenced in a comic.

Know what you're talking about, before talking about it.

Edit: Also, stop confusing psi with pounds of force. CS would need to exert 6000000 lbs of force to form a fist, the psi number remains the same.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
I know perfectly well what those numbers mean, and I also know that such level of force is nowhere near the run of the mill strength feats high heralds have managed to perform in the past.

Also, there's a real-life nickel-beryllium alloy that has the same tensile strength as that fictional stainless steel alloy, and I am willing to wager that people like Thor or Hulk could easily rip it apart without breaking a sweat, were it ever referenced in a comic.

Know what you're talking about, before talking about it. I know exactly what I'm talking about, friend-- my thorough post above should have certainly been indicative of such. Don't talk crap just to talk crap. It's unbecoming.

Additionally, I never once claimed that bending CS's armor is a feat beyond the ability of any herald, so I don't know where your delusional rant even stems from..? All I am saying is that CS casually bending his armor is an impressive feat, all things considered. I mean, if it takes a force of nearly 6,000,000lbs for him to simply make a fist, just imagine the forces he has to generate while actively fighting-- here's a visual example:
http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/16108155_1.jpg http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/16108156_2.jpg http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/16108157_3.jpg

Tens of millions as a conservative estimate. And remember: he doesn't have to exert himself in the slightest to bend the armor-- all he does is move like he normally would.

At any rate, the force CS exerts against his armor to merely dampen his strength enough to not crush everything he touches is impressive whether you'd like to admit it or not.

280000 pounds per square inch (about 140 short tons) , is decent. Though Impressive is a relative term and depends on what class of being that is being discussed. For a top tier brick, ala hulk or superman or Thor it is well within their abilities and wouldn't even be a high feat. Still it isn't a sign of weakness or anything and is respectable enough.

Originally posted by Galan007
The suit weakens him because it has a tensile strength of OVER 280,000lbs per square inch and is completely unjointed:
http://s238.photobucket.com/user/Galan_photos/media/cs0.jpg.html
So the simple act of CS moving would require him to exert hundreds of thousands of pounds of force. Uber.

On that note, CS shredding/crumpling his suit like cheap toilet paper is an extremely uber strength feat in its own right:
http://s238.photobucket.com/user/Galan_photos/media/cs4.jpg.html

As was mentioned, CS not only tanked a punch from Gog(the JSA-wrecker), but he tooled him with a single shot:
http://s238.photobucket.com/user/Galan_photos/media/cs1.jpg.html
http://s238.photobucket.com/user/Galan_photos/media/cs2.jpg.html
...Not even Source-amped Infinity Man was able to tool Gog in an equal amount of time.

And finally: after removing his armor, CS was able to down Gog(the God,) with a mere two punches:
http://s238.photobucket.com/user/Galan_photos/media/cs5.jpg.html
http://s238.photobucket.com/user/Galan_photos/media/cs6.jpg.html

Not even the combined efforts of the entire JSA (inc. KC Superman, Alan Scott, Obsidian, Thunderbolt, etc) were able to come close to doing that:
http://s238.photobucket.com/user/Galan_photos/media/cs3.jpg.html


Niiice!?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Citizen Steel toppled Gog by going for his ankle while the JSA tried to pull him down. And it was after Atom reduced his body to a mess, I even remember his arm barely holding out IIRC. Two completely different methods of approach on a body in completely different conditions.

There was a reason why Superman was able to casually rip off his head. Context is important. Also, there's a big difference in between pushing over a building and taking one down by removing a support beam. Steel is nowhere near as strong as Kurse from what I remember.

Edit: Here's the scene for people to decide for themselves:
http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16107037_Justice_Society_of_America_022-04.jpg http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16107038_Justice_Society_of_America_022-05.jpg http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16107039_Justice_Society_of_America_022-08.jpg http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16107041_Justice_Society_of_America_022-10.jpg http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/16107079_Justice_Society_of_America_022-1213.jpghttp://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16107042_Justice_Society_of_America_022-14.jpg http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16107044_Justice_Society_of_America_022-15.jpg
Atom did nothing to Gog. He laughed it off. As for Steel, he knocked Gog down by the ankles. It's not like removing a support beam, it's all about the center of gravity. Try pushing a real person over by their ankles...it's a phucking hell of a lot harder than pushing on their shoulders.

The fact that he was able to knock Gog over when the combined JSA couldn't (a JSA that would phuck over Kurse something awful) speaks volumes. Add that to his other feats, and I think it becomes more clear.

Originally posted by Naija boy
280000 pounds per square inch (about 140 short tons) , is decent. Though Impressive is a relative term and depends on what class of being that is being discussed. For a top tier brick, ala hulk or superman or Thor it is well within their abilities and wouldn't even be a high feat. Still it isn't a sign of weakness or anything and is respectable enough. I never argued that bending the armor puts CS above any herald(s). However, it is impressive.

Originally posted by abhilegend
No need to send a PM. Here's the scan courtesy of Galan.

Gog vs KC Superman/Amazin man

http://s272.photobucket.com/albums/jj172/galan007_pics/?action=view&current=jsagog_jsa7.jpg
http://s272.photobucket.com/albums/jj172/galan007_pics/?action=view&current=jsagog_jsa8.jpg
http://s272.photobucket.com/albums/jj172/galan007_pics/?action=view&current=jsagog_jsa9.jpg

KTFO both and choking them like a ***** with one hand.

Gog vs Steel

http://s238.photobucket.com/albums/ff191/Galan_photos/?action=view&current=cs1.jpg
http://s238.photobucket.com/albums/ff191/Galan_photos/?action=view&current=cs2.jpg

Can I have the issue number just the same?

Impressive, but again, context bro. He took out Superman with a cheap shot from behind and his energy or whatever. He didn't just straight out choke Superman to the point he couldn't free himself. Even if Citizen Steel is three times stronger then Superman, he should still be stronger then Gog.

Also, God. Superman went down like a *****. Power Girl even rocked his shit with a brief blast of heat vision in the first issue I opened, I'm hopping he doesn't job throughout the whole run.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Also you made it look like downing Gog was no feat at all. Look who is trying to drop him here?

http://s238.photobucket.com/albums/ff191/Galan_photos/?action=view&current=cs3.jpg

Not even the combined efforts of the entire JSA (inc. KC Superman, Alan Scott, Obsidian, Thunderbolt, etc) were able to come close to doing that.

He's much stronger than KC Superman, much less superman.

What? When did I do that? It was impressive, I never said otherwise, I simply pointed out the context.

Yes, but again, all of this was before a huge energy blast:
http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16107038_Justice_Society_of_America_022-05.jpg

This effected him extremely because they were able to easily decapitate him:
http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/16107079_Justice_Society_of_America_022-1213.jpghttp://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16107042_Justice_Society_of_America_022-14.jpg http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16107044_Justice_Society_of_America_022-15.jpg

Again, it is impressive. But posting a feat that Thor can easily accomplish with a hammer shot is not note worthy in a thread with Kurse.

Guys, lets not lowball. Using that suit is impressive not compared to the big guns.

However, it limiting his strength by at least half, is not. Especially not in a thread with someone almost four times stronger then Thor.

Originally posted by Cogito
Atom did nothing to Gog. He laughed it off. As for Steel, he knocked Gog down by the ankles. It's not like removing a support beam, it's all about the center of gravity. Try pushing a real person over by their ankles...it's a phucking hell of a lot harder than pushing on their shoulders.

The fact that he was able to knock Gog over when the combined JSA couldn't (a JSA that would phuck over Kurse something awful) speaks volumes. Add that to his other feats, and I think it becomes more clear.

It didn't hurt him but it did critical damage to his put together body. If not, how were they able to easily hold him him down and decaptate him when previously they couldn't budge it? Was it all a coincidence? Did Steel break off his ankle?

Very impressive, but much less so with context.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Guys, lets not lowball. Using that suit is impressive.

However, it limiting his strength by at least half, is not. Especially not in a thread with someone almost four times stronger then Thor. Where's your "at least half" figure coming from? Because if CS were forced to use "at least half" of his strength just to function with the suit on, I'd *think* he would be exerting himself a LOT more than he does when he moves. However, he appears to move around just as effortlessly as he normally does.

I have no doubt that the suit dampens his strength to some degree(exerting millionS of pounds of force just to raise an arm would dampen almost any character.) However, I just don't know if it cuts his power by at least half...

Originally posted by Galan007
Where's your "at least half" figure coming from? Because if CS were forced to use "at least half" of his strength just to function with the suit on, I'd *think* he would be exerting himself a LOT more than he does when he moves. However, he appears to move around just as effortlessly as he normally does.

I have no doubt that the suit dampens his strength to some degree(exerting millionS of tons of force just to raise an arm would dampen almost any character.) However, I just don't know if it cuts his power by at least half...

I got it from your own scan lol:
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff191/Galan_photos/cs0.jpg

Second last panel. They said it should cut his strength by at least half. The whole point of the suit is that it weakens him enough so he can interact with things.

Again impressive compared to others, but in a thread with someone like Thor much less Kurse? Makes him look weak when half of Kurse's strength can accomplish this (Aided by Mjolnir):
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ShattersCelestialArmor1.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ShattersCelestialArmor2.jpg

Millions of tons of force? From all indication its millions of pounds isn't it?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I got it from your own scan lol:
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff191/Galan_photos/cs0.jpg

Second last panel. They said it should cut his strength by at least half. The whole point of the suit is that it weakens him enough so he can interact with things.

Again impressive compared to others, but in a thread with someone like Thor much less Kurse? Makes him look weak imho. That was Doctor Midnite's opinion, hence his use of the word "should".

CS himself has stated that the suit merely slows his movements down, which makes sense:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16108157/3.jpg.html

So yeah, I wouldn't bank on the "at least half" statement. If that really were true, then it means CS was able to tool JSA-wrecker/herald Gog at half power-- ie. CS @ 50% power>Gog>KC Superman>mainstream Superman.

I doubt you're ready to start that shit-storm.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Millions of tons of force? From all indication its millions of pounds isn't it? Lol, yeah. Typo.

Originally posted by Galan007
That was Doctor Midnite's opinion, hence his use of the word "should".

CS himself has stated that the suit merely slows his movements down:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16108157/3.jpg.html

So yeah, I wouldn't bank at the "at least half" statement. If that really were true, then it means CS was able to slap around JSA-wrecker/herald Gog at half power-- ie. CS @ 50% power>Gog>KC Superman>mainstream Superman.

I doubt you're ready to start that shit-storm.

I don't know, that entire statement seemed to pretty clearly give us the writer's opinion and how the suit operated. Why do you take one half of the sentence as fact but ignore the other?

He says that the suit slows him down, not that this is it's only function. The suit also weakens him pretty drastically to the point he doesn't kill anyone he touches. He took it off when he faced Gog for a reason, it was his version of cutting loose.

Lol, but I always thought the suit cut his power in half since the very first time I read that issue. It was a pretty clearly an explanation on how it worked. I have no problem, if Citizen Steel shits on Superman strength wise. Although I don't know if I agree with that. Gog being stronger than even Wonder Woman is probably not something I'd not agree with.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I don't know, that entire statement seemed to pretty clearly give us the writer's opinion and how the suit operated.

He says that the suit slows him down, not that this is it's only function. The suit also weakens him pretty drastically to the point he doesn't kill anyone he touches.

Lol, but I always thought the suit cut his power in half since the very first time I read that issue. It was a pretty clearly an explanation on how it worked. I have no problem, if Citizen Steel shits on Superman strength wise. So iyo: CS @ 50% power>Gog>KC Superman>mainstream Superman, but even at 100% power(ie. w/o the suit) he would struggle with Thor or Kurse? Hm, interesting.

Originally posted by Galan007
So iyo: CS @ 50% power>Gog>KC Superman>mainstream Superman, but even at 100% power(ie. w/o the suit) he would struggle with Thor or Kurse? Hm, interesting.

Yup. Superman is just a weak fob.

But honestly, I don't believe that Citizen Steel would ever beat mainstream Superman in a fight, suit or not. But that's just my gut feeling, don't take it as gospel.

I'm not going to ignore evidence just because it might be uncomfortable or inconvenient

i'm with rage. i never thought cs was in that tier strength wise. even after looking at the scans above i'm not sure where he falls. i don't think anyone is saying cs is more than 2x thor's strength so that means he is well short of kurse. what i'm not sure about is the affect the armor would have on kurse. weird match, but on the surface, without going no limits, i'd say kurse would handle him pretty easily unless the metal plays a part and acts as a weakness.

Kurse's weakness is iron, not metal overall. He'd wreck Citizen Steel and pretty much the whole JSA easily if they fight as ineffectively as they did against the herald.

Seriously, what the f*ck is wrong with Alan Scott? Does he have Alzheimer? Stop trying to tackle superhuman beings when you have a Power Ring. Makes me facepalm every time. Also re-read the fight and Wild Cat with his son had about as much effect as Kingdom Come Superman in restraining Gog:
http://s272.photobucket.com/user/galan007_pics/media/jsagog_jsa14.jpg.html
http://s272.photobucket.com/user/galan007_pics/media/jsagog_jsa15.jpg.html

Made me lol. F*cking teams and the jobbing effect.

Is Stormbreaker made out of Uru? Can anyone recall? Weird question but it has a completely different look and composition from Mjolnir and other Uru weapons.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Kurse's weakness is iron, not metal overall. He'd wreck Citizen Steel and pretty much the whole JSA easily if they fight as ineffectively as they did against the herald.

Seriously, what the f*ck is wrong with Alan Scott? Does he have Alzheimer? Stop trying to tackle superhuman beings when you have a Power Ring. Makes me facepalm every time. Also re-read the fight and Wild Cat with his son had about as much effect as Kingdom Come Superman in restraining Gog. Lol.

Is Stormbreaker made out of Uru? Can anyone recall? Weird question but it has a completely different look and composition from Mjolnir and other Uru weapons.

Yes it is, made out of the same molded as Mojlnir, that why Odin called Stormbreaker the brother to Mojlnir

Originally posted by the Darkone
Yes it is, made out of the same molded as Mojlnir, that why Odin called Stormbreaker the brother to Mojlnir

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Random/th_Stormbreaker01.jpg

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
This effected him extremely because they were able to easily decapitate him:
http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/16107079_Justice_Society_of_America_022-1213.jpghttp://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16107042_Justice_Society_of_America_022-14.jpg http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16107044_Justice_Society_of_America_022-15.jpg

Again, it is impressive. But posting a feat that Thor can easily accomplish with a hammer shot is not note worthy in a thread with Kurse.

He was decapitated by Gog's staff -- his own power. There's no reason to believe Atom's blast had anything to do with it, especially given how panels beforehand he laughed it off. I really don't know why you're blowing up Atom's feat so much.

Originally posted by Cogito
He was decapitated by Gog's staff -- his own power. There's no reason to believe Atom's blast had anything to do with it, especially given how panels beforehand he laughed it off. I really don't know why you're blowing up Atom's feat so much.

Was it stated somewhere that Gog has some kind of weakness to his herald?

Because it's the only thing that makes sense. The whole JSA can't bring him down and he laughs them off.

Then Steel easily topples him, Starman easily holds him down, and Magog/Superman easily decapitate him.

If it was only Steel that had a good showing? Then I wouldn't say anything, it'd be just an abnormally high showing but when others do that well all of a sudden? You can't just ignore that kind of evidence.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Yup. Superman is just a weak fob.

But honestly, I don't believe that Citizen Steel would ever beat mainstream Superman in a fight, suit or not. But that's just my gut feeling, don't take it as gospel.

I'm not going to ignore evidence just because it might be uncomfortable or inconvenient So if CS is stronger than Superman at half power, then it means he's more than twice as powerful as Superman at 100% power, right? So unless this is the super-duper Kurse that Beyonder amped multiple times, then CS should be able to contend with him, no? I mean, the consensus here is that Superman is no less than equal to Thor strength-wise-- so if CS is more than 2x > Supes, it means he's more than 2x > Thor by proxy.

This isn't my opinion, btw. I'm just using your own logic.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Was it stated somewhere that Gog has some kind of weakness to his herald? Lol, where was it stated that Atom's attack weakened Gog?

These are the facts: the JSA attacked Gog and it did nothing. Atom attacked Gog and it did nothing. CS attacked Gog and floored him. Am I supposed to believe that every other attack prior to CS's strikes in some way 'softened up' Gog enough for CS to down him, despite absolutely nothing on panel being indicative of such(literally no statements or depictions alluded to this)..? Sorry, but no.

I believe Johns merely used that scene as a platform through which to depict how phucking powerful CS is-- it's certainly 'in character' for Johns to give random characters HUGE feats, after all.

Originally posted by Galan007
So if CS is stronger than Superman at half power, then it means he's more than twice as powerful as Superman at 100% power, right? So unless this is the super-duper Kurse that Beyonder amped multiple times, then CS should be able to contend with him, no? I mean, the consensus here is that Superman is no less than equal to Thor strength-wise-- so if CS is more than 2x > Supes, it means he's more than 2x > Thor by proxy.

This isn't my opinion, btw. I'm just using your own logic.

Lol, where was it stated that Atom's attack weakened Gog?

These are the facts: the JSA attacked Gog and it did nothing. Atom attacked Gog and it did nothing. CS attacked Gog and floored him. Am I supposed to believe that every other attack prior to CS's strikes in some way 'softened up' Gog enough for CS to down him, despite absolutely nothing on panel being indicative of such(literally no statements or depictions alluded to this)..? Sorry, but no.

I believe Johns merely used that scene as a platform through which to depict how phucking powerful CS is-- it's certainly 'in character' for Johns to give random characters HUGE feats, after all.
That's like his best feat though ain't it?
He doesn't belong in the big leagues. At least I don't think he does. I could be wrong.
What other notable feats has he done? Supes, Thor, Orion, Hulk, level type o'shiet... Big boy stuff.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
That's like his best feat though ain't it?
He doesn't belong in the big leagues. At least I don't think he does. I could be wrong.
What other notable feats has he done? Supes, Thor, Orion, Hulk, level type o'shiet... Big boy stuff. CS has two really good feats: tooling the Gogs. Other then those instances, he wasn't really centered on enough to gather uber feats.

Either way, I have no problem with Kurse being more powerful than CS. The attempts to lowball the feats CS does have, however, borders on ludicrous.

Originally posted by Galan007
So if CS is stronger than Superman at half power, then it means he's more than twice as powerful as Superman at 100% power, right? So unless this is the super-duper Kurse that Beyonder amped multiple times, then CS should be able to contend with him, no? I mean, the consensus here is that Superman is no less than equal to Thor strength-wise-- so if CS is more than 2x > Supes, it means he's more than 2x > Thor by proxy.

This isn't my opinion, btw. I'm just using your own logic.

I don't know that Citizen Steel is stronger then mainstream Superman, there's a reason why ABC logic is frowned upon but whatever.

I don't want Citizen Steel to be operating at 50% power, I'm just telling you what was printed in the comic, you can use that to reach any conclusions that you want.

No, I think Kurse would beat the f*cking shit out of him. I also think Kurse would break Kingdom Come Superman in half if getting slammed into a car door then being zapped can knock him out or Kara can take him for a loop with a heat vision blast.

Originally posted by Galan007
Lol, where was it stated that Atom's attack weakened Gog?

These are the facts: the JSA attacked Gog and it did nothing. Atom attacked Gog and it did nothing. CS attacked Gog and floored him. Am I supposed to believe that every other attack prior to CS's strikes in some way 'softened up' Gog enough for CS to down him, despite absolutely nothing on panel being indicative of such(literally no statements or depictions alluded to this)..? Sorry, but no.

I believe Johns merely used that scene as a platform through which to depict how phucking powerful CS is-- it's certainly 'in character' for Johns to give random characters HUGE feats, after all.

I didn't say it weakened him, I said it damaged his artificial body, which it did:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16107038/Justice_Society_of_America_022-05.jpg.html

No, that's not what I said. The explosion seemed to negatively affect him, that's the only explanation I can come up with.

Let me put it this way: If Citizen Steel had just knocked over Gog then it would be an uber feat, no questions asked. But then the JSA was able to easily hold him down and decapitate him. There was a reason for that change in performance, I'm attributing it to Atom, otherwise: COMICS!

Originally posted by Galan007
CS has two really good feats: tooling the Gogs. Other then those instances, he wasn't really centered on enough to gather uber feats.

Either way, I have no problem with Kurse being more powerful than CS. The attempts to lowball the feats CS does have, however, borders on ludicrous.

I'm sorry, I blame Abhil.

^ You mean Damage? I think there is confusion regarding certain statements since that was Damage, not Atom Smasher.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I'm sorry, I blame Abhil.

So, 50% power levels is > KC Superman/Superman? Dayum.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I don't know that Citizen Steel is stronger then mainstream Superman, there's a reason why ABC logic is frowned upon but whatever.

I don't want Citizen Steel to be operating at 50% power, I'm just telling you what was printed in the comic, you can use that to reach any conclusions that you want.

No, I think Kurse would beat the f*cking shit out of him. I also think Kurse would break Kingdom Come Superman in half if getting slammed into a car door then being zapped can knock him out or Kara can take him for a loop with a heat vision blast.



I didn't say it weakened him, I said it damaged his artificial body, which it did:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16107038/Justice_Society_of_America_022-05.jpg.html

No, that's not what I said. The explosion seemed to negatively affect him, that's the only explanation I can come up with.

Let me put it this way: If Citizen Steel had just knocked over Gog then it would be an uber feat, no questions asked. But then the JSA was able to easily hold him down and decapitate him. There was a reason for that change in performance, I'm attributing it to Atom, otherwise: COMICS!

Like he did to Thor in Thor 486, right?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Like he did to Thor in Thor 486, right?

Yeah, Kurse is such a pussy, he was only beating up this guy:
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ShattersCelestialArmor1.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ShattersCelestialArmor2.jpg

http://s38.photobucket.com/user/RageOfTheGod/media/Thor/AmpedThanosdefeated6.jpg.html
http://s38.photobucket.com/user/RageOfTheGod/media/Thor/AmpedThanosdefeated7.jpg.html
http://s38.photobucket.com/user/RageOfTheGod/media/Thor/AmpedThanosdefeated8.jpg.html
http://s38.photobucket.com/user/RageOfTheGod/media/Thor/AmpedThanosdefeated9.jpg.html

I'm sorry Kingdom Come Superman turned into an ineffective pussy, I really did love that comic and interpretation of Superman.

Not sure from where it's being gotten that Gog laughed off Damages explosion, we see quite visible damage done to him bodily.

It didn't really hurt him because the body is an artificial construct made from the Earth but the actual body was a complete mess, it looked like his arm was about to fall off.

Yeah that's what I mean. The bodily construct looked to be damaged/affected.

Originally posted by Galan007
I know exactly what I'm talking about, friend-- my thorough post above should have certainly been indicative of such. Don't talk crap just to talk crap. It's unbecoming.

Additionally, I never once claimed that bending CS's armor is a feat beyond the ability of any herald, so I don't know where your delusional rant even stems from..? All I am saying is that CS casually bending his armor is an impressive feat, all things considered. I mean, if it takes a force of nearly 6,000,000lbs for him to simply make a fist, just imagine the forces he has to generate while actively fighting-- here's a visual example:
http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/16108155_1.jpg http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/16108156_2.jpg http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/16108157_3.jpg

Tens of millions as a conservative estimate. And remember: he doesn't have to exert himself in the slightest to bend the armor-- all he does is move like he normally would.

At any rate, the force CS exerts against his armor to merely dampen his strength enough to not crush everything he touches is impressive whether you'd like to admit it or not.
So referencing such a low-end showing in a thread in which he's being pitted against a guy that greatly rivals one of Marvel's top high heralds in terms of pure strength isn't indicative of comparative analysis with high heralds?

Please, 280000 pounds per square inch isn't even worth mentioning when discussing the physical capabilities of high herald bricks. You have provided other feats, like the showing against Gog which, despite the disputing that some of the Kurse-supporters are raising, is a fairly decent showing in itself but lets not pretend that resisting a billion pascals of pressure/tensile stress is an impressive feat w.r.t high herald strongmen.

Plus, your selective preference of what counts in your scans and what doesn't is also damning, seeing how you dismiss the notion that the alloy skin should restrict CS's strength by at least half.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I don't want Citizen Steel to be operating at 50% power, I'm just telling you what was printed in the comic, you can use that to reach any conclusions that you want. I'm simply using your opinions to reach a conclusion-- a conclusion I cannot agree with, mind you.

Your stance is that at 50% power, CS is >> Superman(which means he is >> Thor, by proxy.) Thus at 100% power, CS would logically have to be more than 2x more powerful than Superman and/or Thor-- thus he should be on par with Kurse by default(unless this is the version of Kurse that Beyonder amped twice.)

...Do you see why it's hard for me to accept that the suit dampens his power by 1/2? That opens up the door for CS to potentially be far stronger than ANY herald or trans-tier character in DC-- which I simply don't believe he is.

But hey, if you want to boost him to those levels, then far be it from me to stop you.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I didn't say it weakened him, I said it damaged his artificial body, which it did:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16107038/Justice_Society_of_America_022-05.jpg.html

No, that's not what I said. The explosion seemed to negatively affect him, that's the only explanation I can come up with. Fast-forward a few pages(when CS began punching him), and none of that damage still appears to exist on Gog's person:
http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/16113097_07.jpg

Fast-forward a few more pages(when Superman pulled his head off), and none of that damage still appears to exist on Gog's person:
http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/16113098_11.jpg


Gog sustained 'damage' from Atom's attack, healed in the span of a single page(even his clothing was repaired), and was floored by CS. Easy, right?

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
So referencing such a low-end showing in a thread in which he's being pitted against a guy that greatly rivals one of Marvel's top high heralds in terms of pure strength isn't indicative of comparative analysis with high heralds?

Please, 280000 pounds per square inch isn't even worth mentioning when discussing the physical capabilities of high herald bricks. You have provided other feats, like the showing against Gog which, despite the disputing that some of the Kurse-supporters are raising, is a fairly decent showing in itself but lets not pretend that resisting a billion pascals of pressure/tensile stress is an impressive feat w.r.t high herald strongmen.

Plus, your selective preference of what counts in your scans and what doesn't is also damning, seeing how you dismiss the notion that the alloy skin should restrict CS's strength by at least half. More ranting?

Again: I didn't post the suit info as a comparison to any other character-- just as a point of reference regarding the type of forces CS has to exert against the suit just to dampen his strength enough to not kill everything he touches. And everyone(aside from you) has agreed that said forces ARE impressive. That's said, your ranting is completely unsubstantiated and moreover irrational.

Like I told Rage: if you are of the opinion that the suit decreases CS's strength by half, then you'd better be ready to accept the notion that CS is more than 2x stronger than Superman and Thor by default. Why? Because CS "@ 50% power" > Gog>KC Superman>mainstream Superman. In fact, by this logic CS would be more like 3-4x more powerful than Superman and Thor.

You guys are inflating his power with this opinion much more than any of his supporters have.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Yeah, Kurse is such a pussy, he was only beating up this guy:
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ShattersCelestialArmor1.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ShattersCelestialArmor2.jpg

http://s38.photobucket.com/user/RageOfTheGod/media/Thor/AmpedThanosdefeated6.jpg.html
http://s38.photobucket.com/user/RageOfTheGod/media/Thor/AmpedThanosdefeated7.jpg.html
http://s38.photobucket.com/user/RageOfTheGod/media/Thor/AmpedThanosdefeated8.jpg.html
http://s38.photobucket.com/user/RageOfTheGod/media/Thor/AmpedThanosdefeated9.jpg.html

I'm sorry Kingdom Come Superman turned into an ineffective pussy, I really did love that comic and interpretation of Superman.

Namor was doing that just recently alongside that failure colossusnaut. Without a hammer to boot. I can post several showings from Superman much more impressive than that.

What's the point of showing of an amped Thor's beating of Thanosi here?

Getting beaten by a more powerful being is not being a pussy. Ask Thor about the beatings from the Hulk about it.

vin