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http://imageshack.us/a/img822/7549/6217f7237e2e9c0b5917765.jpg


Vs

http://imageshack.us/a/img838/6769/44cdad2ded395f1cbdfeb9c.jpg

Surfer wins.

Professor Zoom wins.

Zoom

Zoom

Zoom.

Surfer

How does Surfer win against someone who can simply deage him?

Because he's silver surfer, duh. Nobody can beat him except characters from marvel.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Because he's silver surfer, duh. Nobody can beat him except characters from marvel.

This guy knows what he is talking about.

Going with Surfer to win.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Because he's silver surfer, duh. Nobody can beat him except characters from marvel.

Anyway, I'd like to hear how Surfer is going to beat a time manipulator on Zoom's level. Hell, I'd like to know how Surfer is even going to compete with him in speed.

Originally posted by carver9
This guy knows what he is talking about.
Originally posted by Golgo13
Anyway, I'd like to hear how Surfer is going to beat a time manipulator on Zoom's level. Hell, I'd like to know how Surfer is even going to compete with him in speed.
You realize I was being sarcastic?

The same way Wonder Woman (blind), Hal, Powergirl, etc... has dealt with his speed. Zoom isn't unhittable.

Originally posted by carver9
The same way Wonder Woman (blind), Hal, Powergirl, etc... has dealt with his speed. Zoom isn't unhittable.

The scan is PROFESSOR Zoom.

Originally posted by carver9
The same way Wonder Woman (blind), Hal, Powergirl, etc... has dealt with his speed. Zoom isn't unhittable.
facepalm

Zoom wins.

Surfer turns Zoom into a toaster.

Zoom turns surfer into a toddler.

Professor Zoom sonned Barry, Wally, Bart, Max, Jesse, & Jay at the same time.

He slapped around Superman, Hal, and Booster at the same time.

He showed the ability to increase his power via stealing time from another person's timeline.

He showed the ability to erase someone from existence via unraveling their timeline.


Surfer does not win.

There's more than one Zoom, people.

Originally posted by Galan007
Professor Zoom sonned Barry, Wally, Bart, Max, Jesse, & Jay at the same time.

He slapped around Superman, Hal, and Booster at the same time.

He showed the ability to increase his power via stealing time from another person's timeline.

He showed the ability to erase someone from existence via unraveling their timeline.


Surfer does not win.
He didn't slap superman around though.

He blitzed Booster, Superman, Hal, and Rip, created a cyclone, and then left when he was tired "playing games with them":
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16119030/Time_Masters_-_Vanishing_Point_6_006.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16119034/Time_Masters_-_Vanishing_Point_6_007.jpg.html

I didn't clarify prof zoom because I figured the scan was enough. My bad, this is prof zoom in this thread.

Split zoom can punch Ss into oblivion but Ss can turn the surface of the planet into glue. Both guys would leave supes and hulk lumpy tho.

Originally posted by Galan007
He blitzed Booster, Superman, Hal, and Rip, created a cyclone, and then left when he was tired "playing games with them":
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16119030/Time_Masters_-_Vanishing_Point_6_006.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16119034/Time_Masters_-_Vanishing_Point_6_007.jpg.html
Of course you left this

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/th_TimeMasters-VanishingPoint5022.jpg

Zoom explicitly stated that Superman rivaled him in reflexes. He also negated that tornado by flying at exactly the same speed as Zoom in the opposite direction in your second scan. That's not a knock on zoom though and neither does it makes Surfer able to hit Zoom. Superman is just that fast.

If Zoom can prevent SS from getting sufficient leverage (and i mean high up in the air airborne), he wins..

If not, then as good as his powers are against those who fight him in his own terms, he is not so godly to avoid omnidirectional blasts that will blanket the planet.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Of course you left this

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/th_TimeMasters-VanishingPoint5022.jpg

Zoom explicitly stated that Superman rivaled him in reflexes. That's not a knock on zoom though and neither does it makes Surfer able to hit Zoom. Superman is just that fast. That was from issue 5. Zoom stated that Superman's speed "rivaled"(ie. was close to) his own.

In issue 6, Zoom went on to blitz Booster, Supes, Hal, and Rip. How do I know Zoom blitzed Superman? Because he hit him several times in the space of a single panel:
http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/16119292_1.jpg

So yeah, Superman managing to clothes-line Zoom really doesn't mean anything at all, given that Zoom BLITZED him in the subsequent issue. In short: Zoom is faster than Superman. Simple.

Don't make this more than it is. If you continue to argue this fact, I'll get a mod ruling and be done with it.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Of course you left this

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/th_TimeMasters-VanishingPoint5022.jpg

Zoom explicitly stated that Superman rivaled him in reflexes. That's not a knock on zoom though and neither does it makes Surfer able to hit Zoom. Superman is just that fast. zoom still have a edge on supes. The ass beating won't be as bad as if he faced a marvel brick. They wouldn't even probably land a hit.

Surfer wins

Originally posted by Naija boy
Surfer wins
I'll be Quan for a bit..

Based on?

Originally posted by Galan007
That was from issue 5. Zoom stated that Superman's speed "rivaled"(ie. was close to) his own.

In issue 6, Zoom went on to blitz Booster, Supes, Hal, and Rip. How do I know Zoom blitzed Superman? Because he hit him several times in the space of a single panel:
http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/16119292_1.jpg

So yeah, Superman managing to clothes-line Zoom really doesn't mean anything at all, given that Zoom BLITZED him in the subsequent issue. In short: Zoom is faster than Superman. Simple.

Don't make this more than it is. If you continue to argue this fact, I'll get a mod ruling and be done with it.
Of course Zoom is faster than superman. I was just saying that he never slapped superman around which is true. Superman also negated Zoom's tornado with equal but opposite speed if you didn't notice it on the next page. You accepted that Superman was close to Zoom in speed and that's it.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Of course Zoom is faster than superman. Cool, then why the heck are you arguing?

Originally posted by abhilegend
I was just saying that he never slapped superman around which is true. As I pointed out in the above scan: Zoom BLITZED Superman in the space of a single panel. So yes, he did slap him around.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Superman also negated Zoom's tornado with equal but opposite speed if you didn't notice it on the next page. Given that I posted the scan depicting this a few posts above, it's safe to say that I did notice it. Good thing the cyclones Zoom generates don't possess the sum-total of his speed, otherwise you might have a point.

Originally posted by abhilegend
You accepted that Superman was close to Zoom in speed and that's it. I merely reiterated what Zoom said in issue 5. However, given that Zoom BLITZED Superman in issue 6, AND tooled the entire phucking Flash lineage during Rebirth, I think it's safe to say that Superman is not that close to him in the speed department.

After all, we saw how Superman's speed compares to Barry's:
http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/16119604_15.jpg

Yet Zoom sonned Barry like it was his phucking job(do I really need to post those scans..?)

Good to see you back Galan...you're rarely if ever on and when you're on, you hang around in the anime thread.

Originally posted by Galan007
Cool, then why the heck are you arguing? Zoom slapping superman around.

Most of those aren't even landing on superman and could be the after images. Superman wasn't even bothered by them, let alone be slapped around in that scan.

Of course not. It still gives an idea of superman being near Zoom in speed.

Despite superman "rivaling" Zoom in reflexes by his own account?

He entered speed force in the next panel. Barry going at max speed would leave superman in dust, I agree. When he doesn't though, superman races and catches him and then match his reflexes.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/DC/th_superman709008.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/DC/th_superman709010.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/DC/th_superman709011.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/DC/th_superman709012.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/DC/th_superman709016.jpg

You might say barry let him do that but that doesn't mean he is that outclassed in speed against a normal Flash who isn't going to join speed force. Don't worry, he's caught Wally racing him too without wally holding back. Johns loves to lowball superman against any of his favorite character, so it isn't surprising how he had that "Charity" line in rebirth.

No need to. I'm not disputing Zoom's superiority in speed. I'm just disagreeing that Zoom "slapped superman around". For all of their hype, none of the Zooms have been more than an annoyance to superman. Heck bizzaro nearly stalemated Zoloman in a foot race. Superman isn't that outclassed against Flashes in speed.

Guys, don't turn this in to a Superman thread. He got smacked, but he still showed insanely fast reflexes. So he wins some, he loses some. He isn't as fast as Zoom, I'm sure we can all agree.

Please move on.

Originally posted by abhilegend
No need to. I'm not disputing Zoom's superiority in speed. Cool.

Originally posted by abhilegend
I'm just disagreeing that Zoom "slapped superman around". I'm not saying that Zoom dealt Superman and lasting damage, but he did slap him around(as evident by the single-panel-blitz.) That's all.

Originally posted by -Pr-
He got smacked, but he still showed insanely fast reflexes. So he wins some, he loses some. He isn't as fast as Zoom, I'm sure we can all agree. Fair enough.

Flash was mind controlled during that scene, wouldn't consider that usable BUT, it is an amazing showing for Superman.

Originally posted by carver9
Flash was mind controlled during that scene, wouldn't consider that usable BUT, it is an amazing showing for Superman. That was the same comic where Flash commented that he can perceive events on an attosecond-by-attosecond basis:
http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/16119903_20.jpg


Phucking amazing. What's even more amazing is that Zoom tooled him as though he was laughably slow

Originally posted by -Pr-
Guys, don't turn this in to a Superman thread. He got smacked, but he still showed insanely fast reflexes. So he wins some, he loses some. He isn't as fast as Zoom, I'm sure we can all agree.

Please move on. Originally posted by Galan007
Cool.

I'm not saying that Zoom dealt Superman and lasting damage, but he did slap him around(as evident by the single-panel-blitz.) That's all.

Fair enough.
I would just agree to disagree.Originally posted by carver9
Flash was mind controlled during that scene, wouldn't consider that usable BUT, it is an amazing showing for Superman.
Mind control doesn't mean he was holding himself back.

Mind control also doesn't mean he was using his all. We don't know.

Originally posted by Galan007
That was the same comic where Flash commented that he can perceive events on an attosecond-by-attosecond basis:
http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/16119903_20.jpg


Phucking amazing. What's even more amazing is that Zoom tooled him as though he was laughably slow
Less than an attosecond bro. Superman is an attosecond level speedster too by that showing.

Originally posted by Galan007
That was the same comic where Flash commented that he can perceive events on an attosecond-by-attosecond basis:
http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/16119903_20.jpg


Phucking amazing. What's even more amazing is that Zoom tooled him as though he was laughably slow

That's freaking insane.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Mind control doesn't mean he was holding himself back. In that same comic Flash said that he let Supes catch him:
http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/16119917_11.jpg

Not trying to turn this into a Superman vs. Flash thread, but you did leave that scan out of your previous post. Just trying to be objective, is all.

Originally posted by carver9
Mind control also doesn't mean he was using his all. We don't know.
He was sure that only superman could've stopped him. He was still talking and running at hyperspeed and superman still matched him. It wasn't a real mind control anyway. A kryptonian device was feeding information into his mind and he lost the control over his body. When that happens to a speedster, they usually run at their top speed. No difference here.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Less than an attosecond bro. Superman is an attosecond level speedster too by that showing.

Lol, w/e.

Originally posted by carver9
That's freaking insane. It really is.

Originally posted by Galan007
In that same comic Flash said that he let Supes catch him:
http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/16119917_11.jpg

Not trying to turn this into a Superman vs. Flash thread, but you did leave that scan out of your previous post. Just trying to be objective, is all.
I mentioned that in my last post. It was just Barry cradling his bruised ego.



Also superman racing and catching Wally at full speed is still better.

http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Speed/flight/JLAClassified16a.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Speed/flight/JLAClassified16b.jpg

Originally posted by Galan007
Lol, w/e.

Originally posted by abhilegend
He was sure that only superman could've stopped him. He was still talking and running at hyperspeed and superman still matched him. It wasn't a real mind control anyway. A kryptonian device was feeding information into his mind and he lost the control over his body. When that happens to a speedster, they usually run at their top speed. No difference here.

Couldn't read your scans, too small. Ive read the comic but I can't remember, was hyperspeed ever mentioned?

Originally posted by Galan007

You still care bro.

uhuh

Originally posted by carver9
Couldn't read your scans, too small. Ive read the comic but I can't remember, was hyperspeed ever mentioned?
Of course there was.

http://s1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/DC/superman709008.jpg

Surfer turns superman into a toaster and Zoom into two slices. Then uses abhi's brains for scrambled eggs.


Surfer should handily counter time manipulation and by simply taking Zoom to the Astral plane or the Microverse, he could trap him.

Read that scan ABHI.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Of course there was.

http://s1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/DC/superman709008.jpg
In that bottom frame, why is Superman making a constipated face?

Can his kryptonian body not process fibre?

Guys, Superman isn't in this thread, so drop it, please.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
I'll be Quan for a bit..

Based on?

Simply put, I believe surfer is durable enough and subsequently fast enough to get up a shield or get airborne prior to being koed. After which he can win via omni directional blasts.

This isn't a stomp in Zoom's favor at all.

Surfer has time manip/time related powers too. He's time traveled under his own power on more than one occasion before and he can see into the timestream.

Even assuming Zoom wins, it will be after a brutal fight.

I get that Professor Zoom beats the phuck out of Speedforce speedsters. That's just his game. And clearly he excels at it. But are there many examples of Professor Zoom fighting energy manipulators? Granted, Professor Zoom has like... no post-Crisis appearances...

Originally posted by zopzop
This isn't a stomp in Zoom's favor at all.

Surfer has time manip/time related powers too. He's time traveled under his own power on more than one occasion before and he can see into the timestream.

Even assuming Zoom wins, it will be after a brutal fight.

Has he controlled time on Zoom's level?

Originally posted by Golgo13
Has he controlled time on Zoom's level?
Honestly? No.

But it would at least give him a fighting chance. Surfer is an odd being. His Power Cosmic gives him a very versatile power set. From time travel, "time vision" for lack of a better phrase, FTL/warp flight speeds, telescopic/microscopic/energy spectrum vision, strength augmentation, matter re-arrangement, planetary level TP, energy projection, healing critical wounds and raising the dead, etc....

If he's on his "A" game, I pity who he's up against.

Originally posted by zopzop
Honestly? No.

But it would at least give him a fighting chance. Surfer is an odd being. His Power Cosmic gives him a very versatile power set. From time travel, "time vision" for lack of a better phrase, FTL/warp flight speeds, telescopic/microscopic/energy spectrum vision, strength augmentation, matter re-arrangement, planetary level TP, energy projection, healing critical wounds and raising the dead, etc....

If he's on his "A" game, I pity who he's up against.

Well, who would you bet your money on in this battle.

Depends really.

Surfer is so versatile, I think he'd resist Zoom's time powers long enough to actually win. But, if he can't, he's going down hard.

It could go either way honestly.

Originally posted by zopzop
Honestly? No.

But it would at least give him a fighting chance. Surfer is an odd being. His Power Cosmic gives him a very versatile power set. From time travel, "time vision" for lack of a better phrase, FTL/warp flight speeds, telescopic/microscopic/energy spectrum vision, strength augmentation, matter re-arrangement, planetary level TP, energy projection, healing critical wounds and raising the dead, etc....

If he's on his "A" game, I pity who he's up against.

Surfer's matter manipulation and energy manipulation are easily planetary level too. There's the time when he let loose (SS #104), and forced all the life on an entire planet to evolve a billion years foward, essentially causing them to "grow themselves to death." He then preceded to incinerate the entire planet, causing planetary genocide, and pretty much destroying the planet.

Surfer's pwerset makes my head spin. He's all over the place. Could he tank an early blitz? Most probably.

I do see him getting all exotic if Prof Zoom starts using time manipulation.

Still, he would start zippin around his board trying to blast most of the time.

I don't think Surfer would have the reaction time to deal with someone like Zoom, who can simply de-age him on the spot. I mean has SS resisted dematerialize attacks on Zoom's level?

Originally posted by Golgo13
I don't think Surfer would have the reaction time to deal with someone like Zoom, who can simply de-age him on the spot. I mean has SS resisted dematerialize attacks on Zoom's level?
I believe Surfer could resist the "de-aging" attack since he has some time travel/manip powers of his own.

Regarding the dematerialization attack, keep in mind, Surfer shrugged off a blast from Korvac. I don't see him going down that easily.

Originally posted by Golgo13
I don't think Surfer would have the reaction time to deal with someone like Zoom, who can simply de-age him on the spot. I mean has SS resisted dematerialize attacks on Zoom's level?
Were talking about a guy that evolved a whole planet billion of years in mere seconds or a single child in decades time so I don't see why not, but can Zoom operate at full when there's no ground to thread on.

Surfer win. My 2 cents.

Originally posted by Ambient
Were talking about a guy that evolved a whole planet billion of years in mere seconds or a single child in decades time so I don't see why not, but can Zoom operate at full when there's no ground to thread on.

Surfer win. My 2 cents.

Flash's can run on air and since Zoom has shown to much faster than Flash, I think he can.

Don't work that way bru, otherwise I start using galactus feats on surfer. Know what I mean.

Agree to disagree. I still think Zoom's time manipulation along with speed gives Zoom the edge. Until I see Surfer overcoming such attacks from someone on Zoom's level.

Aight!

How's travelling through time a counter to this?

Originally posted by Galan007
You think Darkseid could tank something like this?
http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/16121107_Flash_12_Oroboros_CPS_014.jpg http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/16121110_Flash_12_Oroboros_CPS_015.jpg
(That was an alternate version of Barry, btw... Not just some random schmoe.)

This version of barry could travel through time too.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Flash's can run on air and since Zoom has shown to much faster than Flash, I think he can. No, they can't.

Originally posted by ODG
No, they can't.

Rage posted some scans of Wally doing this. Barry did this in PC days as well

Surfer could easily rewrite Zoom's dna, into a banana, whilst tanking that waste of time Vulcan mind-meld rip-off.

Zoom can easily erase him as well.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Rage posted some scans of Wally doing this. Barry did this in PC days as well And Thor has flown about as many times w/o Mjolnir as Flashes have run in the air. Which is like 3 out of 100 times. That 3% shouldn't be a consideration in this thread at all. And Professor Zoom isn't Wally. And neither is he PC Barry Allen.

I consider it, because it's been done before. It's happened more times than Surfer blowing up a planet.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Zoom can easily erase him as well.
Surfer doesn't even need to touch him and, Surfer can do it all whilst being everywhere.

What's Zoom going to do when the entire battlefield (including his own body) is Surfer-consciousness?


Surfer 10/10.

Zoom can attack him from different time points. He doesn't need to be in the area.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Zoom can attack him from different time points. He doesn't need to be in the area.
So Zoom's 'solution' is self-bfr?


Surfer just traps Zoom's soul and bio-energies on an asteroid or into his board.


Actually, that would be the most in-character thing for him to do to an annoyance. Just trap him in his board and carry on with his beautiful day of space surfing and being shiny.

Zoom can travel through time at will. If he's bloodlust and he more than likely be for the fight, he would kill Surfer. And he's much faster as well.

Has Zoom ever travelled to a timeline outside of Earth, tho?

Just curious as time travel is considered self-BFR here, isn't it?

Originally posted by Golgo13
I consider it, because it's been done before. It's happened more times than Surfer blowing up a planet. You're trying to combat the idea of Surfer being powerful enough to blow up the planet with Professor Zoom running on thin air.

Firstly, that doesn't strike me as being an effective counterpoint at all. Second, you might want to try showing some actual scans of Professor Zoom doing this to validate the idea in the first place.

Until then, it isn't a consideration serious enough or even proven enough to merit a response.

Originally posted by ODG
You're trying to combat the idea of Surfer being powerful enough to blow up the planet with Professor Zoom running on thin air.

Firstly, that doesn't strike me as being an effective counterpoint at all. Second, you might want to try showing some actual scans of Professor Zoom doing this to validate the idea in the first place.

Until then, it isn't a consideration serious enough or even proven enough to merit a response.

Surfer wouldn't do that in the first place, so it's not important. I've seen multiple flash's do it, so it's not out of the realm of possibility. Just my opinion.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Has Zoom ever travelled to a timeline outside of Earth, tho?

Just curious as time travel is considered self-BFR here, isn't it?

Like Flashpoint one? Anyway, here is the scans of what he has done.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=437949&pagenumber=6

Originally posted by Golgo13
Surfer wouldn't do that in the first place, so it's not important. But Professor Zoom would do something that we've so far not even seen him do on-panel yet. That's what is important to you. Your rationales are so utterly disconnected that I'm not even sure whether you're serious or not. Originally posted by Golgo13
I've seen multiple flash's do it, so it's not out of the realm of possibility. Just my opinion. But we get it. Something that we've never seen Professor Zoom do at all on-panel (so far), serves to protect him from something Surfer has done on-panel when he gets serious enough against that level of opponent.

Originally posted by ODG
But Professor Zoom would do something that we've so far not even seen him do on-panel yet. That's what is important to you. Your rationales are so utterly disconnected that I'm not even sure whether you're serious or not. But we get it. Something that we've never seen Professor Zoom do at all on-panel (so far), serves to protect him from something Surfer has done on-panel when he gets serious enough against that level of opponent.



When has Surfer blown up a planet? When has Surfer stopped someone from a time stop or erasing their existence or a de aging? I'm seeing that Surfer is versatile, but it's not going to protect him from someone on Zoom's level.

Originally posted by Golgo13
When has Surfer blown up a planet? When has Surfer stopped someone from a time stop or erasing their existence or a de aging? I'm seeing that Surfer is versatile, but it's not going to protect him from someone on Zoom's level.
Surfer blew up a planet just for show, when he got pissed off with Ravenous, during Annihilation.

Surfer also created a blackhole so powerful that Skreet and Thanos were endangered by it, during another incident.

Surfer has healed Thor from life threatening injury, he's turned artificial intelligence into life and he's evolved a whole planet so "ageing and de-ageing" is nothing - literally an insignificant particle of that feat.

Surfer has also tanked Bannerless Hulk's ferocious attacks, survived an extended attack from Tenebrous & Aegis and frequently instantly healed/reassembled from being sliced/atomised.

Zoom's done nothing that suggests he would be an obstacle for Surfer.

Originally posted by Golgo13
When has Surfer blown up a planet? If you don't know enough about the subject we're speaking about, best not try to wrangle an obtuse non-sequitur to combat it. Surfer's blown up planets twice. His fights with Morg and Ravenous. And since you love talking about other Speedforce users rather than Professor Zoom himself, Power Cosmic wielders like Terrax and Stardust have wrecked planets as well in their fights. Heck, Nova blew up a star. Originally posted by Golgo13
When has Surfer stopped someone from a time stop or erasing their existence or a de aging? I'm seeing that Surfer is versatile, but it's not going to protect him from someone on Zoom's level. At this point, you're just moving goalposts. I get you don't want to talk about Surfer's battlefield destruction vs. Professor Zoom running in the air anymore though. I wouldn't want to either as there is absolutely no proof Professor Zoom has done so at all.

But we get it. Somehow we have to assume he could and disregard the number of times opponents have disrupted the footing of speedster runners in comics. Moreover, we have to disregard Surfer's feats of wrecking the battlefield in spectacular fashion against powerful opponents.

This is what makes sense, after all... ?

This is not Jay Garrick and Wally running on air, golgo. Not at all.

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14805650/JLAJSAVV-68.jpg.html

The writer isn't Johns too.

Given that Surfer has existed as a character for 40+ years and battled hundreds of opponents, the fact that he has only destroyed a planet twice in his history implies that it is certainly not an 'in character' tactic for him. This thread does not specify "no CIS", after all.

It's a tool in his toolbox, sure-- just not one he's likely to use right out of the gate, imo.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Has he controlled time on Zoom's level?

He really hasn't had to, because let's be honest- time manipulation is a VERY broken power for a hero to have.

But we've seen Surfer roll back his perception of time in his immediate vicinity, travel forwards, backwards, and across(??) time under his own power, warp the fabric of space/time itself, throw an opponent to the end of time mid fight, and evolve/age a planet to death in moments.

It's fair to say there's a LOT that can be done with the PC in regards to time.

Combine that with his cosmic awareness- Surfer will know the extent of Zoom's powers and potential weaknesses immediately. CIS off, there's no way to surprise him, and if there's a way to exploit Zoom's powerset he'll know about it.

I'd give this fight to a well written surfer more often than not.

edit: defensively, surfer is underrated. There's a lot to be said for the ability to go intangible, invisible, submicroscopic or all three during a fight to avoid attacks and plan a strategy.

Originally posted by Galan007
Given that Surfer has existed as a character for 40+ years and battled hundreds of opponents, the fact that he has only destroyed a planet twice in his history implies that it is certainly not an 'in character' tactic for him. This thread does not specify "no CIS", after all.

It's a tool in his toolbox, sure-- just not one he's likely to use right out of the gate, imo.

I think it has less to do about whether Surfer would do it off the bat rather than "would he eventually do it once he realizes Zoom is kinda hard to hit?".

Stil, it would need him to be pretty desperate and the planet would have to be uninhabited.

I completely agree.

Originally posted by Space M ummy
He really hasn't had to, because let's be honest- time manipulation is a VERY broken power for a hero to have.

But we've seen Surfer roll back his perception of time in his immediate vicinity, travel forwards, backwards, and across(??) time under his own power, warp the fabric of space/time itself, throw an opponent to the end of time mid fight, and evolve/age a planet to death in moments.

It's fair to say there's a LOT that can be done with the PC in regards to time.

Combine that with his cosmic awareness- Surfer will know the extent of Zoom's powers and potential weaknesses immediately. CIS off, there's no way to surprise him, and if there's a way to exploit Zoom's powerset he'll know about it.

I'd give this fight to a well written surfer more often than not.

edit: defensively, surfer is underrated. There's a lot to be said for the ability to go intangible, invisible, submicroscopic or all three during a fight to avoid attacks and plan a strategy.

Yeah, Surfer is versatile, no doubt, but that doesn't mean he could automatically resit Zoom's time attacks, who has destroyed beings with similar time manipulation. Once Zoom mastered the Anti-Speed Force, he became the most powerful and most dangerous foe Flash had.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Yeah, Surfer is versatile, no doubt, but that doesn't mean he could automatically resit Zoom's time attacks, who has destroyed beings with similar time manipulation. Once Zoom mastered the Anti-Speed Force, he became the most powerful and most dangerous foe Flash had.

Has he ever aged an ageless being before? Surfer doesn't really grow old.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Has he ever aged an ageless being before? Surfer doesn't really grow old.

Doesn't really? If there is an end to Surfer, he can do it.

Surfer would more than likely obliterate Zoom before Zoom could "age" Surfer.

Also, Surfer has complete control over his own atoms, how is "age" going to affect him when he can simply - and instantly - reform them into a "younger" version of himself?

There's little that I can see Zoom accomplishing against Surfer.

The one who moves freely through time and super speed is the one who would get the majority, IMO. And since we have seen him blitz speedsters and heroes like Hal and Superman alike, I'm leaning towards Zoom.

Right, so he moves "freely" through time, and does what exactly?

The moment he makes contact with Surfer a) Surfer will know his shtick and counter it with time manipulation of his own, and b) obliterate Zoom with a death touch (if it's current - willing to kill - Surfer).

Surfer's not a "speedster", he's too powerful and versatile to be defined by one simple trick. Surfer manipulates time and space too.

He can go back to when he was a child and kill him that way. Zoom's manipulation of time>Surfer's.

Originally posted by Golgo13
He can go back to when he was a child and kill him that way. Zoom's manipulation of time>Surfer's.
Won't work, Galactus' ****ed with Zen-La ... hidden it from all time and space or somesuch.

Zoom > Galactus?


And even if that has been changed, there's the simple fact that Zoom leaving the battlefield would be self-bfr. As well as the fact that it would result in a splinter universe developing, without Norrin as The Silver Surfer ... Rather than affecting 616 Surfer (who would simply obliterate Zoom).

Originally posted by janus77
Won't work, Galactus' ****ed with Zen-La ... hidden it from all time and space or somesuch.

Zoom > Galactus?


And even if that has been changed, there's the simple fact that Zoom leaving the battlefield would be self-bfr. As well as the fact that it would result in a splinter universe developing, without Norrin as The Silver Surfer ... Rather than affecting 616 Surfer (who would simply obliterate Zoom).

Zoom doesn't need to travel through time, it's only one option. He could de age him right in front of him, before he reacts.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Zoom doesn't need to travel through time, it's only one option. He could de age him right in front of him, before he reacts.
And I repeat, how do you "age"/"deage" someone who has complete and total control over their atoms and who does not age?

More likely scenario is that Surfer decides to age Zoom and murder him instantly.

Originally posted by janus77
And I repeat, how do you "age"/"deage" someone who has complete and total control over their atoms and who does not age?

More likely scenario is that Surfer decides to age Zoom and murder him instantly.

By someone who has better control. The Anti-Speed Force let's you manipulate more than time.

Originally posted by Galan007
Given that Surfer has existed as a character for 40+ years and battled hundreds of opponents, the fact that he has only destroyed a planet twice in his history implies that it is certainly not an 'in character' tactic for him. This thread does not specify "no CIS", after all.

It's a tool in his toolbox, sure-- just not one he's likely to use right out of the gate, imo.

I would argue Surfer has "destroyed" a planet at least four times. Besides Ravenous and Morg, Surfer has incinerated an entire planet (with life on it) in SS #104. The fourth time Korvac made Surfer into a planetary core, and created a planet around Surfer, which Surfer promptly destroyed.

When Surfer does destroy a planet, it's usually when he gets really serious with his opponent, and when the planet is uninhabited. Destroying a planet would be in-character aslong as Zoom pushes him far enough, and the planet isn't populated. I don't know where this battle is taking place though.

Originally posted by Golgo13
By someone who has better control. The Anti-Speed Force let's you manipulate more than time.
Well, good thing there's absolutely no evidence that Zoom has _any_ control over Surfer's atoms or, for that matter, any matter manipulation controls.

Anyway, Surfer wins 10/10.

He has control over temporal/Kinetic energy. Agree to disagree. Zoom wins, IMO.

Zoom's deaging maneuver likely won't work, given that he apparently had to come within very close proximity of his opponent(AND stay in one place) to preform that trick. Time traveling into Surfer's past also isn't an option, as that equates to a self-BFR and automatic loss, per forum rules.

Zoom's most reliable option here is a good 'ol fashion(and relentless) speedblitz, imo. If a single-panel-long blitz is enough for him to stagger Booster, Supes and Hal, I see absolutely no reason why a more prolonged blitz wouldn't cause damage to the likes of Surfer(FTL blitzes'll do that to even the toughest opposition: see Diana's battle with Zolomon.)

Blitzes aside, Professor Zoom was far, far, FAR faster than either Wally or Barry. Surfer has never fought a being remotely close to Zoom's level of speed-- he isn't touching Zoom unless Zoom wants to be touched, imo. That said, the most likely outcome I see here is a stalemate(sans Surfer's very much out of character 'planetary destruction' card, of course.) /shrug

Originally posted by vince_slice
I would argue Surfer has "destroyed" a planet at least four times. Besides Ravenous and Morg, Surfer has incinerated an entire planet (with life on it) in SS #104. The fourth time Korvac made Surfer into a planetary core, and created a planet around Surfer, which Surfer promptly destroyed.

When Surfer does destroy a planet, it's usually when he gets really serious with his opponent, and when the planet is uninhabited. Destroying a planet would be in-character aslong as Zoom pushes him far enough, and the planet isn't populated. I don't know where this battle is taking place though. Even if you count those 2 additional times(which is quite sketchy, imo) it's still not 'in character'. A character preforming a given feat 4 times in a 40+ year history doesn't make it 'in character'-- that equates to LESS THAN 1 planet-busting feat every DECADE.

It is certainly within his power to do, but it simply isn't 'in character'. IMHO.

Surfer's easily capable of going intangible, whilst retaining full access to all his powers.

He's also demonstrated a willingness to instantly kill someone if he sees them as a threat.

Originally posted by Galan007
Even if you count those 2 additional times(which is quite sketchy, imo) it's still not 'in character'. A character preforming a given feat 4 times in a 40+ year history doesn't make it 'in character'-- that equates to LESS THAN 1 planet-busting feat every DECADE.

It is certainly within his power to do, but it simply isn't 'in character'. IMHO.
The "40+ year" thing is a bit disingenuous imo, it's not like he's always had an on-going or that his comics are generally about fighting one-on-one.

He's a space explorer and pacifist, his powers just happen to be freakin' godlike, that's all.

Think about the time he got obliterated to atoms by UniLord, only to reform instantly, he can take prolonged attacks from Galactus level entities... a prolonged speedblitz isn't going to do him in, even if he didn't decide to counter it in some way or other.


Also, just as a bit of perspective, how many times has Galactus' annihilated several planets? I think he's done it as many times Hulk has.

Originally posted by Galan007
Zoom's deaging maneuver likely won't work, given that he apparently had to come within very close proximity of his opponent(AND stay in one place) to preform that trick. Time traveling into Surfer's past also isn't an option, as that equates to a self-BFR and automatic loss, per forum rules.

Zoom's most reliable option here is a good 'ol fashion(and relentless) speedblitz, imo. If a single-panel-long blitz is enough for him to stagger Booster, Supes and Hal, I see absolutely no reason why a more prolonged blitz wouldn't cause damage to the likes of Surfer(FTL blitzes'll do that to even the toughest opposition: see Diana's battle with Zolomon.)

Blitzes aside, Professor Zoom was far, far, FAR faster than either Wally or Barry. Surfer has never fought a being remotely close to Zoom's level of speed-- he isn't touching Zoom unless Zoom wants to be touched, imo. That said, the most likely outcome I see here is a stalemate(sans Surfer's very much out of character 'planetary destruction' card, of course.) /shrug

If Zoom did master the ASF, I would think he wouldn't really need to touch Surfer for a time fudge.

Originally posted by janus77
The "40+ year" thing is a bit disingenuous imo, it's not like he's always had an on-going or that his comics are generally about fighting one-on-one.

He's a space explorer and pacifist, his powers just happen to be freakin' godlike, that's all.

Think about the time he got obliterated to atoms by UniLord, only to reform instantly, he can take prolonged attacks from Galactus level entities... a prolonged speedblitz isn't going to do him in, even if he didn't decide to counter it in some way or other.


Also, just as a bit of perspective, how many times has Galactus' annihilated several planets? I think he's done it as many times Hulk has. He's been around 45 years. He's appeared in hundredS of comics. He's taken part in hundredS of battles. He has 2-4 planet-busting feats total. While planet-busting is unquestionably within his power to do, it is not in character for him to do. That much really isn't arguable.

I know what Surfer is capable of-- he is massively powerful. However, given Zoom's HUGE speed advantage, I don't believe Surfer's power-edge would count for quite as much as you think it would... Zoom could realistically avoid any attack he unleashes.

Maybe a few of the energy/physical attacks, but what about life-force entrapment, or consciousness/mind attacks?

Also, how does Zoom touch Surfer if Surfer phases out or takes over the whole battlefield?

And, most importantly with respect to the "in character" point, Surfer's character/mentality has drastically changed of late. He's far more ruthless against villains than he used to be. And he has instantly killed/obliterated villains of late.

Originally posted by janus77
Maybe a few of the energy/physical attacks, but what about life-force entrapment, or consciousness/mind attacks?

Also, how does Zoom touch Surfer if Surfer phases out or takes over the whole battlefield?

And, most importantly with respect to the "in character" point, Surfer's character/mentality has drastically changed of late. He's far more ruthless against villains than he used to be. And he has instantly killed/obliterated villains of late.

Speedsters can be intangible as well and if Surfer phases out of reality, isn't that self BFR?

Originally posted by Golgo13
Speedsters can be intangible as well and if Surfer phases out of reality, isn't that self BFR?
lol, nice try

Surfer's still in the battlefield, just out of phase with Zoom. Or maybe in the microverse within the battlefield or he is the battlefield...

Originally posted by janus77
Maybe a few of the energy/physical attacks, but what about life-force entrapment, or consciousness/mind attacks?

Also, how does Zoom touch Surfer if Surfer phases out or takes over the whole battlefield? Those options are definitely viable IF Surfer is capable of doing so to an opponent who moves so fast that time is literally frozen around him(from a relative stance, of course.) And I'm guessing he's never preformed exitic feat like those on a speedster anywhere near Zoom's level...

He doesn't. Zoom may not be able to harm Surfer, but Surfer may not be able to harm Zoom either. Hence my stalemate comment above.

Originally posted by Galan007
Those options are definitely viable IF Surfer is capable of doing so to an opponent who moves so fast that time is literally frozen around him(from a relative stance, of course.) And I'm guessing he's never preformed exitic feat like those on a speedster anywhere near Zoom's level...

He doesn't. Zoom may not be able to harm Surfer, but Surfer may not be able to harm Zoom either. Hence my stalemate comment above.
I don't see how speed makes a difference when it comes to soul/lifeforce attacks. Surfer used it as a last resort against Lunatik, but he's now more ruthless and so more likely to use it before exhausting other, conventional, avenues.

Also, Surfer's never had an issue with "speedsters" as far as Marvel goes, who's to say that Runner wasn't faster than Flash? Given that speed and "running" was the sole focus of his life.

Anyway, better to disagree and leave it at that.

Those attack will work IF he can do so before Zoom attacks. We know Surfer can do this, but can he do it to someone as fast as Zoom? Who made Wally and Barry look like fools.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Those attack will work IF he can do so before Zoom attacks. We know Surfer can do this, but can he do it to someone as fast as Zoom? Who made Wally and Barry look like fools.
Again, Surfer doesn't need to "do this faster than Zoom can attack", as it is plenty evident that Surfer can take a tonne of punishment from powers far far far far far superior to Zoom.

If Surfer can take a prolonged beat down from UniLord or T&A, he can handle Zoom pouring it on for more than long enough to mount a counter.

And this is assuming Surfer doesn't have the reflexes and speed to immediately counter Zoom...

If he has shown to counter someone on Zoom's level, I'd like to see it.

Originally posted by janus77
I don't see how speed makes a difference when it comes to soul/lifeforce attacks. Surfer used it as a last resort against Lunatik, but he's now more ruthless and so more likely to use it before exhausting other, conventional, avenues.

Also, Surfer's never had an issue with "speedsters" as far as Marvel goes, who's to say that Runner wasn't faster than Flash? Given that speed and "running" was the sole focus of his life.

Anyway, better to disagree and leave it at that. Again, these may be viable options IF Surfer is able to a.) target Zoom at all, and b.) do so before Zoom blitzes-- the latter being unlikely. At any rate, the aforementioned attacks would definitely put Zoom down IF they were successful.

There is not a single character in Marvel with battle speed feats on par with Wally or Barry-- let alone Zoom. Thus I can say, with confidence, that Zoom's battle speed is vastly beyond Surfer's, given that it is vastly beyond Wally and Barry's.

Yeah, that is likely the best thing to do at this point. Neither side is going to budge.

To people saying Zoom will blitz Surfer, then what? Surfer has withstood attacks from Trans+ level beings and survived.
http://s7.postimg.org/59xktxsef/25tatxd.jpg
Pretty sure no speed blitz from Zoom is going to match a blast from Korvac.

Again: Zoom's blitzing may damage Surfer, and it may not. Even if it doesn't, Surfer still isn't touching Zoom. That's why a stalemate seems most logical to me.

Additionally, durability to energy attacks=/=durability to physical attacks.

Originally posted by Galan007
Again: Zoom's blitzing may damage Surfer, and it may not. Even if it doesn't, Surfer still isn't touching Zoom. That's why a stalemate seems most logical to me.

Additionally, durability to energy attacks=/=durability to physical attacks.

I will have to disagree here. This will not be a stalemate. In fact, it'll be a stomp for one side or the other.

Basically, this fight breaks down to a single question:

Will Zoom be able to take down the Surfer via a blitz before Surfer goes airborne?

If he takes down Surfer in the initial blitz, then he wins (duh). If not, Surfer wins. It's that simple.

This is because, once airborne, Zoom's options disappear (as he has no on panel "showings" of flight) and Surfer gets all the time in the world to basically win the fight. Any kind of lull in the battle would be at the Surfer's advantage as it gives him the time to analyze the situation and come up with counter-strategies. And with Surfer's powerset, his options are pretty much nigh infinite.

One easy path to victory is the use of an omniblast, if the first ominblast isn't hitting Zoom, then Surfer expands it. If that misses, then he expands it again. On and on until Zoom runs out of space to run. All the while, while airborn, there isn't really much Zoom can do to Surfer (who, in flight, is pretty damned fast and maneuverable himself).

Originally posted by Nibedicus
I will have to disagree here. This will not be a stalemate. In fact, it'll be a stomp for one side or the other.

Basically, this fight breaks down to a single question:

Will Zoom be able to blitz Surfer before Surfer goes airborne?

If he takes down Surfer in the initial blitz, then he wins (duh). If not, Surfer wins. It's that simple.

This is because, once airborne, Zoom's options disappear (as he has no on panel "showings" of flight) and Surfer gets all the time in the world to basically win the fight. Any kind of lull in the battle would be at the Surfer's advantage as it gives him the time to analyze the situation and come up with counter-strategies. And with Surfer's powerset, his options are pretty much nigh infinite.

One easy path to victory is the use of an omniblast, if the first ominblast isn't hitting Zoom, then Surfer expands it. If that misses, then he expands it again. On and on until Zoom runs out of space to run. All the while, while airborn, there isn't really much Zoom can do to Surfer (who, in flight, is pretty damned fast and maneuverable himself).
I don't think it's a question of will he be able to blitz Surfer, I think Zoom can. I just don't think he can produce a blitz strong enough to fully take out a Surfer who knows he is in for a fight before a counterattack is given.

Zoom's punches surprised the likes of WW, right? I think he can put a hurting on Surfer.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
I don't think it's a question of will he be able to blitz Surfer, I think Zoom can. I just don't think he can produce a blitz strong enough to fully take out a Surfer who knows he is in a fight before a counterattack is given.

That's what I said!

"If he takes down Surfer in the initial blitz?"

Tho, I think my question was worded poorly. Will edit now.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Zoom's punches surprised the likes of WW, right? I think he can put a hurting on Surfer.
Oh I'm sure Surf will feel it, but come on now.. Surfer > Wondy durability-wise.

Originally posted by Galan007
Given that Surfer has existed as a character for 40+ years and battled hundreds of opponents, the fact that he has only destroyed a planet twice in his history implies that it is certainly not an 'in character' tactic for him. This thread does not specify "no CIS", after all.

It's a tool in his toolbox, sure-- just not one he's likely to use right out of the gate, imo. It's even less 'in character' for Professor Zoom to start running around on thin air since nobody's even posted or referenced a single time he's ever done so. This thread does not specify "imaginary makeup feats," after all.

Taking advantage of one's airborne mobility against a grounded opponent isn't exactly a stretch for Surfer based on his 40+ years history. Nor is it surprising to anyone whose ever read a Flash comic. Surfer one-upping that airborne advantage by disrupting the battlefield is simply added flavor. And the scale with which he can destroy a battlefield was just being driven home by the references to planet-busting.

And that is still more relevant that Professor Zoom's unproven ability (so far) to run around on thin air.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Zoom's punches surprised the likes of WW, right? I think he can put a hurting on Surfer.

Surfer durability >> WW durability, tho.

The question will no doubt be: Who was the highest durability opponent Zoom took down/KOd within a single blitz?

Originally posted by Nibedicus
I will have to disagree here. This will not be a stalemate. In fact, it'll be a stomp for one side or the other.

Basically, this fight breaks down to a single question:

Will Zoom be able to blitz Surfer before Surfer goes airborne?

If he takes down Surfer in the initial blitz, then he wins (duh). If not, Surfer wins. It's that simple.

This is because, once airborne, Zoom's options disappear (as he has no on panel "showings" of flight) and Surfer gets all the time in the world to basically win the fight. Any kind of lull in the battle would be at the Surfer's advantage as it gives him the time to analyze the situation and come up with counter-strategies. And with Surfer's powerset, his options are pretty much nigh infinite.

One easy path to victory is the use of an omniblast, if the first ominblast isn't hitting Zoom, then Surfer expands it. If that misses, then he expands it again. On and on until Zoom runs out of space to run. All the while, while airborn, there isn't really much Zoom can do to Surfer (who, in flight, is pretty damned fast and maneuverable himself). Airborne or not, Surfer isn't touching Zoom, hence stalemate.

However, if this battle takes place in a relatively confined area, then yeah, an omni-blast might eventually work(assuming Surfer has feats that depict him expanding his omni-blasts to any distance he chooses, of course.) If so, please post them. If not, I'm less inclined to see this as a viable option.

Originally posted by ODG
It's even less 'in character' for Professor Zoom to start running around on thin air since nobody's even posted or referenced a single time he's ever done so. This thread does not specify "imaginary makeup feats," after all.

Taking advantage of one's airborne mobility against a grounded opponent isn't exactly a stretch for Surfer based on his 40+ years history. Nor is it surprising to anyone whose ever read a Flash comic. Surfer one-upping that airborne advantage by disrupting the battlefield is simply added flavor. And the scale with which he can destroy a battlefield was just being driven home by the references to planet-busting.

And that is still more relevant that Professor Zoom's unproven ability (so far) to run around on thin air. I never once mentioned Zoom running on air. Don't project.

Originally posted by Galan007
Airborne or not, Surfer isn't touching Zoom, hence stalemate.

However, if this battle takes place in a confined area, then yeah, an omni-blast might eventually work(assuming Surfer has feats that depict him expanding his omni-blasts to any distance he chooses, of course.) If so, please post them. If not, I'm less inclined to see this as a viable option.

I don't think the forum basic battlefield setting is in an "infinite" atmosphereless environment. Is it? Otherwise, how would BFR even work?

His planet buster shown in Annihilation was an omniblast. He also did an expanding omniblast when he tried to escape with Ariwalker the issue prior.

You're basically saying that someone with infinite options given infinite time who has the ability (thru cosmic awareness) to accurately and thoroughly analyze the situation will be unable to come up with options because the other guy will just run away or dodge. I just strongly disagree with this.

Surfer killed all those people?

Originally posted by Golgo13
Surfer killed all those people?

He killed Kenny.

The bastard.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
I don't think the forum basic battlefield setting is in an "infinite" atmosphereless environment. Is it? Otherwise, how would BFR even work?

His planet buster shown in Annihilation was an omniblast. He also did an expanding omniblast when he tried to escape with Ariwalker the issue prior.

You're basically saying that someone with infinite options given infinite time who has the ability (thru cosmic awareness) to accurately and thoroughly analyze the situation will be unable to come up with options because the other guy will just run away or dodge. I just strongly disagree with this. No, I was just thinking planet-sized, as some have mentioned earlier. That's all.

That's true. An omni-blast can definitely work in that case.

No, I'm basically asking for proof to back up some of the claims made about Surfer. My point is: just because a character 'can' do something, doesn't mean it is in character for them to do. Nothing more nothing less.

Really, this comes down to initial blitz. Surfer will get blitzed by Zoom, that much I'm certain of. IF he endures the blitz long enough to realize that he must go airborne, then the battle shifts in his favor. He'd likely not release an omni-blast right away-- he'd probably fly around trying(and failing) to blast Zoom with more conventional blasts(CIS is still on, after all)... But yeah, if he unleashes Annihilation-ish omni-blast, game over. Zoom can't do shit if the battlefield is no longer there and/or he's dead.

Originally posted by Galan007
No, I was just thinking planet-sized, as some have mentioned earlier. That's all.

That's true. An omni-blast can definitely work in that case.

No, I'm basically asking for proof to back up some of the claims made about Surfer. My point is: just because a character 'can' do something, doesn't mean it is in character for them to do. Nothing more nothing less.

Really, this comes down to initial blitz. Surfer will get blitzed by Zoom, that much I'm certain of. IF he endures the blitz long enough to realize that he must go airborne, then the battle shifts in his favor. He'd likely not release an omni-blast right away-- he'd probably fly around trying(and failing) to blast Zoom with more conventional blasts... But yeah, if he unleashes the Annihilation omni-blast, game over.

But that's what I've been saying, tho.

uhuh

Like I said, the question will primarily be:

"Can Zoom KO the Surfer within the space of a single blitz?"

IF yes Zoom stomps. IF not Surfer stomps.

Originally posted by Galan007
No, I was just thinking planet-sized, as some have mentioned earlier. That's all.

That's true. An omni-blast can definitely work in that case.

No, I'm basically asking for proof to back up some of the claims made about Surfer. My point is: just because a character 'can' do something, doesn't mean it is in character for them to do. Nothing more nothing less.

Really, this comes down to initial blitz. Surfer will get blitzed by Zoom, that much I'm certain of. IF he endures the blitz long enough to realize that he must go airborne, then the battle shifts in his favor. He'd likely not release an omni-blast right away-- he'd probably fly around trying(and failing) to blast Zoom with more conventional blasts(CIS is still on, after all)... But yeah, if he unleashes Annihilation-ish omni-blast, game over. Zoom can't do shit if the battlefield is no longer there.
Depends also where this battle takes place. He definitely ain't doin that on an inhabited planet. Just seems so unlikely.. Meh...

Originally posted by Nibedicus
But that's what I've been saying, tho.

uhuh

Like I said, the question will primarily be:

"Can Zoom KO the Surfer within the space of a single blitz?"

IF yes Zoom stomps. IF not Surfer stomps. Yeah, I agree. Tbh, I'd forgotten that his planet-buster during Annihilation was an omni-blast, until you mentioned it.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Depends also where this battle takes place. He definitely ain't doin that on an inhabited planet. Just seems so unlikely.. Meh... Exactly.

Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah, I agree. Tbh, I'd forgotten that his planet-buster during Annihilation was an omni-blast, until you mentioned it.

Well then, I am glad we have reached an accord!

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Depends also where this battle takes place. He definitely ain't doin that on an inhabited planet. Just seems so unlikely.. Meh...

Where do these "battles" usually take place? If it's earth, I don't see Surfer pulling that off, just like you said. If it's an abandoned earth, then that will be different.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Where do these "battles" usually take place? If it's earth, I don't see Surfer pulling that off, just like you said. If it's an abandoned earth, then that will be different.

Rules aren't that specific on what a generic battlefield would be like. But you'll have to concede that there is no way Zoom is winning this and that, at best (depending on battlefield conditions) the best he can hope for is a stalemate.

I swear. Fukkin speedsters always muck up the forums. You start thinking... "Oh man, this guy sooo fast he can punch his opponent a bazillion times before a counter attack."

Then part of you says.. "erm... can he really do that? Let me look over my calculations. Maybe an estimate perhaps."

Then ure like.. "Ah fukk it. My head hurts. Fcukkin speedsters."

Originally posted by Galan007
I never once mentioned Zoom running on air. Don't project. I'm going to say this as flatly as I can:

A poster did bring up Professor Zoom running on the air in response to Surfer's battlefield disruption arguments, which was a response in turn to Zoom de-aging Surfer instantly in the first place. That entire conversation which you can see on page 4 of this thread was the reason for planetary destruction being brought up in the first place.

So when you jump into a conversation by criticizing the very a$$-end of a rote conversation that began with insipid logic, it just makes you look inattentive to the context with which these statements are made. My post was aimed at someone who I assumed actually understood the entire context of the conversation. I apologize for projecting that onto you. I was badly mistaken on that.

In sum, your criticisms of the shallow notion that Surfer would blow up planets (based on 2 feats) doesn't take into consideration that it was merely a response to the shallow notion that Professor Zoom would suddenly run on air (based on no feats) to negate Surfer's airborne mobility in the first place.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Rules aren't that specific on what a generic battlefield would be like. But you'll have to concede that there is no way Zoom is winning this and that, at best (depending on battlefield conditions) the best he can hope for is a stalemate.

If Surfer isn't in the area, then it's BFR. Zoom can always run up a building and still speed blitz. That simple.

Originally posted by Golgo13
If Surfer isn't in the area, then it's BFR. Zoom can always run up a building and still speed blitz. That simple.

Why wouldn't Surfer be in the area? He'd most likely be flying around much higher than any building or surface would be. Battlefield isn't Manhattan or a major city. We can't assume that.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Why wouldn't Surfer be in the area? He'd most likely be flying around much higher than any building or surface would be. Battlefield isn't Manhattan or a major city. We can't assume that.

What exactly are the limits of the battlefield?