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Same kinda rules from the other thread. No mega weapons and every character from series which has a physical body and can be harmed in that manner. No unbeatable types.


Each side starts off 30 miles apart.


Think about Russell Edgington matching wits with Crowley or Jason Stackhouse in a street fight with Dean.

Well ?

Whats 'unbeatable'? The Winchester's have managed to kill every type of creature shown in TB and more. I take it that's a limit on SN high tiers?



Crowley outsmarts Russell.


Dean kicks Jason's ass.


Cas simply speaks and brings everyone to their knees.

Seems like an easy win for Supernatural

Originally posted by BloodRain
Whats 'unbeatable'? The Winchester's have managed to kill every type of creature shown in TB and more. I take it that's a limit on SN high tiers?



Crowley outsmarts Russell.


Dean kicks Jason's ass.


Cas simply speaks and brings everyone to their knees. Not if you can take them out physically just like Ifrit is out.

Russell would outsmart Crowley.


Yeah, Dean would win that fight.


No, he cannot.

Originally posted by SevenShackles
Seems like an easy win for Supernatural TB wins.

Originally posted by quanchi112
TB wins.

You don't think it's a little stacked in SN favor?

Originally posted by SevenShackles
You don't think it's a little stacked in SN favor? What makes you think it is ?

Granted, I have not seen season 8 and am almost finished with season 7.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Not if you can take them out physically just like Ifrit is out.

Russell would outsmart Crowley.


Yeah, Dean would win that fight.


No, he cannot.
We both know that if the brothers were in TB that the Ifrit would have been destroyed.

Why? We've seen him command but not make plans. And plans was the Britdemons flare.

Castiel merely trying to talk to Dean cased excruciating pain, with a voice so strong glass shattered. Laying eyes on his true form causes your eyes to melt. And that's involuntary.

Lol the Angels give all vampires hepatitis D, leaving them in a month long vulnerable state.

Lucifer snaps his fingers and TB dies.

Originally posted by BloodRain
We both know that if the brothers were in TB that the Ifrit would have been destroyed.

Why? We've seen him command but not make plans. And plans was the Britdemons flare.

Castiel merely trying to talk to Dean cased excruciating pain, with a voice so strong glass shattered. Laying eyes on his true form causes your eyes to melt. And that's involuntary. No, we don't. But the brothers do have more experience with ghosts but that is not to say TB ghosts=Supernatural.

That's only to humans and we see many characters interact with Castiel.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Lucifer snaps his fingers and TB dies. Wrong.

Prove they can resist Lucifer snapping his fingers and popping them like pimples.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Prove they can resist Lucifer snapping his fingers and popping them like pimples. He won't have the chance. Killed before he can snap his sissy fingers.

Lucifer is hundreds of times faster than any True Blood character, and more importantly even weaker angels have survived orbital re-entry and crash landing. His coming cause calamity across the world.

TB has nothing on that.

Also, Death solos.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Lucifer is hundreds of times faster than any True Blood character, and more importantly even weaker angels have survived orbital re-entry and crash landing. His coming cause calamity across the world.

TB has nothing on that.

Also, Death solos. Based on what is he faster ?

I watched the seasons with the weakling needing a perfect host in order to sustain him ala Sam.

Russell slaps his head off.

Death isn't in the thread as he is unarguable just like Ifrit.

Read the op.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Based on what is he faster ?

The show.



Prove Russel is strong enough to hurt an Archangel.



He is arguable.

Death kills TB.

There, see? I argued him.

Yeah the perfect host business is because anything less than the correct host will be burnt from the inside out.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, we don't. But the brothers do have more experience with ghosts but that is not to say TB ghosts=Supernatural.

That's only to humans and we see many characters interact with Castiel.
They've worked methods out before for unknowns. I'm not saying they'd see it, pause for a sec then kill it just like that (well, besides demon Sam), but it'd happen if they play to their strengths.

What's to assume that Vampires eardrums and eyes are that durable? They've interacted with his vessel, not his true form.




Its worth mentioning that SN demon-tier strength rivals Russell's. Jake in his first usage of his demon powers was able lift up a military vehicle "like it was nothing". The demon kids have low demonic power at the beginning until they train those abilities.

Originally posted by NemeBro
The show.



Prove Russel is strong enough to hurt an Archangel.



He is arguable.

Death kills TB.

There, see? I argued him. You can't back your claims.


You need to prove he isn't since we see his strength clearly superhuman.

No, he isn't just like Lilith isn't at this point in spirits form.

You are ignoring the parameters of the thread.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Yeah the perfect host business is because anything less than the correct host will be burnt from the inside out.


They've worked methods out before for unknowns. I'm not saying they'd see it, pause for a sec then kill it just like that (well, besides demon Sam), but it'd happen if they play to their strengths.

What's to assume that Vampires eardrums and eyes are that durable? They've interacted with his vessel, not his true form.




Its worth mentioning that SN demon-tier strength rivals Russell's. Jake in his first usage of his demon powers was able lift up a military vehicle "like it was nothing". The demon kids have low demonic power at the beginning until they train those abilities. That is fine because at that point no Sam just Lucifer.

They have also been killed many times as well as tricked.

Your burden.

We are arguing what we see not speculating on nonsense.

Arguable but their speed isn't on Russell's level.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You can't back your claims.

Sure I can, go watch the show.



Weaker angels survive falling through the atmosphere.

Yes he is.

Death solos.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Sure I can, go watch the show.



Weaker angels survive falling through the atmosphere.

Yes he is.

Death solos. I have seen the show. Reference an episode so I can have a food laugh.

Who cares.

Nope.

Death isn't in the thread just like Ifrit is not.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I have seen the show. Reference an episode so I can have a food laugh.

The ones Lucifer appeared in.

Also, food laugh?



It proves Russel would break his girly nails if he tried to hurt Lucifer.



He is in this thread.

Originally posted by NemeBro
The ones Lucifer appeared in.

Also, food laugh?



It proves Russel would break his girly nails if he tried to hurt Lucifer.



He is in this thread. Which ones in particular ? You can't name them and are conceding.

Who broke their hands on his skin ?

Unarguable just like Ifrit. The point of this thread is an invasion and no solos or mega weapons.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Which ones in particular ? You can't name them and are conceding.

The ones where Lucifer moves faster than Russel.



Unfair comparison, Supernatural characters don't have long girly nails like Russel does.



Death invades. Then he solos.

Originally posted by NemeBro
The ones where Lucifer moves faster than Russel.



Unfair comparison, Supernatural characters don't have long girly nails like Russel does.



Death invades. Then he solos. They don't exist.

They have crybaby brothers and a weak father who is easily killed off saving his pansy sons.


Arguing against the thread parameters. You video game posters and your nonsense he solos. Hilarious.

Originally posted by quanchi112
They don't exist.

Have you watched the show?



You don't even know who Lucifer is.



Glad you agree that Death solos.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Have you watched the show?



You don't even know who Lucifer is.



Glad you agree that Death solos. Yes, but you obviously haven't.


Yes, he's that sissy with brother issues with Michael. He loses and was trapped with Sam in the pit. Girlie man.

No, I disagree but he isn't in the thread nor is this allowed.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, but you obviously haven't.

I have seen every episode and worked on the show as a storyboarder.



Not true at all.



He is allowed.

He solos.

Originally posted by NemeBro
I have seen every episode and worked on the show as a storyboarder.



Not true at all.



He is allowed.

He solos. Have fun role playing with your other nerdy friends.

Yep. What a weak villain.

Nope.

TB wins.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Have fun role playing with your other nerdy friends.

Says the 40 year old man who argues about which fictional character beats up the other.



Not so weak that he can't rape Russel, and True Blood.



Death solos.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Says the 40 year old man who argues about which fictional character beats up the other.



Not so weak that he can't rape Russel, and True Blood.



Death solos. I am 34 but unlike you I my friends aren't all members of the forum.

Russell crushes him.


He can be bound as well. Lucifer controlled him. But he isn't in the thread.

TB loses a dozen ghosts (low level compared to SN's) and an Ifrit.. things which can be swatted away in SN. What's SN losing besides all the ghosts, reapers, Death, God-Cas..?

What about BFR? Many SN characters could do that. In fact given how fast time goes in Hell, Alistair could torture a Vamp for hours to leak every weakness they have and come back to the field in 2 mins to tell the Angles, who could give every Vamp Hep D.
Originally posted by quanchi112
That is fine because at that point no Sam just Lucifer.
They have also been killed many times as well as tricked.
Your burden. We are arguing what we see not speculating on nonsense.
Arguable but their speed isn't on Russell's level. ..come again?

Well duh, they have mortal bodies Yeah they can be tricked from time to time, but you're forgetting what these mortals do.. ""Don't worry about--What, like Lucifer didn't worry? Or Michael? Or Lilith or Alastair or Azazel didn't worry?! Am I the only game piece on the board who doesn't underestimate those denim-wrapped nightmares?!"

All I have to prove is my sides attack, which I have. If you can't prove your side can defend from it, they can't and I will take it as a concession if you fail to prove for your side here. Its just like when you keep asking for AK resistance feats.. you're defending this point, so defend.



Its not arguable that lifting up a military vehicle is above tipping a small car. Nor is it that a guy faster than bullet timers is faster than a guy faster than bullet timers..

Originally posted by BloodRain
TB loses a dozen ghosts (low level compared to SN's) and an Ifrit.. things which can be swatted away in SN. What's SN losing besides all the ghosts, reapers, Death, God-Cas..?

What about BFR? Many SN characters could do that. In fact given how fast time goes in Hell, Alistair could torture a Vamp for hours to leak every weakness they have and come back to the field in 2 mins to tell the Angles, who could give every Vamp Hep D.
..come again?

Well duh, they have mortal bodies Yeah they can be tricked from time to time, but you're forgetting what these mortals do.. ""Don't worry about--What, like Lucifer didn't worry? Or Michael? Or Lilith or Alastair or Azazel didn't worry?! Am I the only game piece on the board who doesn't underestimate those denim-wrapped nightmares?!"

All I have to prove is my sides attack, which I have. If you can't prove your side can defend from it, they can't and I will take it as a concession if you fail to prove for your side here. Its just like when you keep asking for AK resistance feats.. you're defending this point, so defend.



Its not arguable that lifting up a military vehicle is above tipping a small car. Nor is it that a guy faster than bullet timers is faster than a guy faster than bullet timers.. They are losing Lillith, all spirits minus the mediums, and Ifrit.

Bfr is fair game.


The speed which the vamps possess shows they can destroy the mortals bodies before they can fight back. We also have the Authority in full force in organization, wolf packs, Maryann, faeries, and the Witches in full force to create protective shields and having domination over the dead which covers many, many SN characters.

Russell acts faster and is more ruthless out of the gate. He can also amp off Faerie blood.

The archangels such as Lucifer, Michael, and Gabriel can solo. As can the anti-christ. And Death. And of course Dean could solo as well.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I am 34 but unlike you I my friends aren't all members of the forum.

You have no friends on this forum or out old man.



Russell is a dumb hick who allowed himself to have wood shoved up his ass. Which he's used to, Talbot used to ream that nancy little punk's ass nightly. What kind of a little punk sires someone and then becomes their ass b!tch?



He is, and he solos easily.

Supernatural, imo, if we're using guys like Lucifer.

http://images6.fanpop.com/image/photos/33000000/Supernatural-Gif-supernatural-33019501-500-279.gif/thread

Originally posted by quanchi112
They are losing Lillith, all spirits minus the mediums, and Ifrit.
Bfr is fair game.TB spirits and Ifrit are lackluster, and assuming you mean TB Lilith whose shown absolutely nothing apart from what Bill has.


Well with BFR that's gg for the Hell trips and everyone getting Hep D.
Originally posted by quanchi112
The speed which the vamps possess shows they can destroy the mortals bodies before they can fight back. We also have the Authority in full force in organization, wolf packs, Maryann, faeries, and the Witches in full force to create protective shields and having domination over the dead which covers many, many SN characters.

Russell acts faster and is more ruthless out of the gate. He can also amp off Faerie blood. Tbh the mortals here pose as much as a thread as the TB mortals. They can be trouble if they know what they're doing but in the end they're just humans. Wolves/Shifter are killed by Weres/Skinwalkers, killed because SN ones have superhuman strength. Fae can only knock out humans or those susceptible to sunlight.

In SN you have to be at a certain level of power to control beings, not forgetting that they have several necromancers and controllers of their own. One isn't going to overpower many doing the same thing right back. Marnie's no Eve after all.

Originally posted by ares834
The archangels such as Lucifer, Michael, and Gabriel can solo. As can the anti-christ. And Death. And of course Dean could solo as well. Read the op. death is unarguable.


Michael is routed along with Lucifer. Gabriel also goes down very easily.


You are ridiculous. Lafayette beats Dean's ass.

Originally posted by NemeBro
You have no friends on this forum or out old man.



Russell is a dumb hick who allowed himself to have wood shoved up his ass. Which he's used to, Talbot used to ream that nancy little punk's ass nightly. What kind of a little punk sires someone and then becomes their ass b!tch?



He is, and he solos easily. Guy and Badabing. Sorry nerdy gamers I'd never talk to you irl.


He was taking on an entire realm of faeries after he just destroyed an Elder Faerie and Eric caught him off guard. This isn't some pansy like Dean or Sam.

Nope. Unarguable but even he was used by Lucifer. Death isn't even unbeatable in his own universe.

Originally posted by BloodRain
TB spirits and Ifrit are lackluster, and assuming you mean TB Lilith whose shown absolutely nothing apart from what Bill has.


Well with BFR that's gg for the Hell trips and everyone getting Hep D.
Tbh the mortals here pose as much as a thread as the TB mortals. They can be trouble if they know what they're doing but in the end they're just humans. Wolves/Shifter are killed by Weres/Skinwalkers, killed because SN ones have superhuman strength. Fae can only knock out humans or those susceptible to sunlight.

In SN you have to be at a certain level of power to control beings, not forgetting that they have several necromancers and controllers of their own. One isn't going to overpower many doing the same thing right back. Marnie's no Eve after all. TB Lilith slayed a ghost. Has bill ? Nah.

Faeries can ko demons and what not since they are in human bodies. Whoops. Glamouring Bobby, Dean, or Sam and using them to exploit the demons and angels weaknesses seems right.


We see Marnie also put up protective fields and using the dead at her will. Necromancy means she controls them.

Marnie controls Death.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Read the op. death is unarguable.


Michael is routed along with Lucifer. Gabriel also goes down very easily.


You are ridiculous. Lafayette beats Dean's ass.


How are they killing the archangels? Lucifer wasn't even killed by the Colt. Plus, the three of them can **** with time and space.

Dean grabs the Rabbit's foot and proceeds to solo the True Blood universe.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8wlgpfofL1rziwwco1_500.gif

Originally posted by ares834
How are they killing the archangels? Lucifer wasn't even killed by the Colt. Plus, the three of them can **** with time and space.

Dean grabs the Rabbit's foot and proceeds to solo the True Blood universe.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8wlgpfofL1rziwwco1_500.gif Destroy his body.

Nah. He gets glamoured.


Marnie controls Death.

lol

Destroying Lucifer's body isn't going to put him down. Lesser angels have come back from worse.

The best they can due is temp banish him with a holy fire molotov. And even then it will only be a few seconds.

Originally posted by ares834
lol

Destroying Lucifer's body isn't going to put him down. Lesser angels have come back from worse.

The best they can due is temp banish him with a holy fire molotov. And even then it will only be a few seconds. For the purposes of the thread he's down and out. Antonia can come back too after her medium is defeated so formal parties once the host body is destroyed they are out.

That's a victory here.


Death is controlled by Marnie.

Thats just another one-sided limitation; Stopping one TB ghost returning, who would be useless without Marnie's body. Also stopping all the demons and angels from returning, thousands.
Besides, TB can't stop anyone in SN from coming back, when SN's can do just this.

Oh and unlike demons, when an angels vessel is destroyed the Angel can recover and heal the host body.

Originally posted by quanchi112
TB Lilith slayed a ghost. Has bill ? Nah.
Faeries can ko demons and what not since they are in human bodies. Whoops. Glamouring Bobby, Dean, or Sam and using them to exploit the demons and angels weaknesses seems right.

We see Marnie also put up protective fields and using the dead at her will. Necromancy means she controls them. Marnie controls Death. So take out said lacklustre beings, all we're losing is Lilith? Whose only standalone feat is defeating a spirit while in her own spirit form.

Demons aren't weak against sunlight, all it would do is knock them back. As said, at best they can Glamour average hunters and find out the weakness to low level demons and monsters. Basically they'll be coming up with salt, iron and holy water. They won't be able to Glamour hunters with strong will, hell proves this.
But lets assume that it works or they're doing it on a normal hunter: They're going to be standing still during a battle asking about what method kills which enemy, then how to find and/or make it, all of which will take quite some time. Not to mention getting the all of this info across, something which will be simple for Angels. The Angles+Hell can do this and execute the plan in under 5 mins.


In SN you have to be at a certain level of power to control beings. Unlike TB Vamps, SN beings have resistance according to how powerful they are. If you wan't to claim she controls low-tier creatures you may, cause thats the best for all the resistances. But as said, there are several Controllers in SN to overwrite her involvement.

Death isn't a vampire. Or undead.

bTX-CVtaatg

1:50 and 3:34. Nothing in TB even comes close to even Mercury's speed, being able to run up, cut, take their blood and run off without them even seeing a shimmer of him. Even the top Pagen gods are around the level of Angels and High-Demons, below the likes of Archangels.

Vc9r7yOQXp4
And this is why we love Lucifer and Gabriel.

Doesnt supernatural have omnipotents?

Gods on the sidelines for this, as is Death. There'd be no point in this thread when either of those two could solo both verses teamed up.


Then again this is a stomp from lovable Arcangel..
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mej6qozOEU1r2ib61o1_500.gif

And heres why:
-He can instantly recover from anything non-fatal, can come back from fatalities in short moments. Can also recover and resurrect others, no sweat. we're talking White Mage champion.
-Tiers above supersonic and car flipping beings, can teleport, read minds, Vulcan pinch and being invisible,
-He's able to create, edit and delete memories and, painfully to the victim, banish people to an unknown place until he wants them.
-Summoning electricity and fire. Take note of the latter, TB vamps weakness.
-The ability to kill with a touch.
-Telekinesis to throw bodies like ragdolls or making their bodies explode.
-White Light which would make even the greatest Faerie's blast feeling like a warm-up. This light can go from smacking bodies around to disintegrating strong creatures. From leveling small buildings to destroying towns.
-Last buy not least, and how he was posing as a Trimester for millions of years.. Manipulation of time and reality.
He can make objects, locations and people from nothing with a gesture. Like trapping Dean and Sam in TV land. And for time there's being able to jump backwards and forwards in it at will (able to alter time if they want, one angle went back to stop the titanic from sinking) and impressively he can throw you into a 'Groundhogs day' time loop for as long as he wants (kept Sam in it for over a hundred days).

Back to the invulnerability.. The only things that could harm him are being burned with a special holy oil and weapons of heaven. Only thing that will kill him is an Archangel blade or Death's scythe. Apart from the hard to find oil, the rest are all in arc/angels (and Death's) possession. Only other option is being more powerful.. but in this situation this will not come close to happening.




Gabriel in this thread is tied second strongest along with Raphael, both under Lucifer and Michael. And if he's in this thread then God-Cas is a tier even above them.

Though its not like Archangels are needed. Low tier Angels can do all but the mind/reality manipulation, time loops, exploding or white light, and to a far lesser extent (still enough to be above TB Bill, the strongest character to date) with more weaknesses.

At this point it can possibly be argued that Bill can contend with a single Angel. But I think that alone speaks for the thread.

Gabriel dominates with glee.

Supernatural ftw.

BloodRain: Something I have wondered about in regards to Cas, is that while he defeated Raphael could he also have defeated Michael and Lucifer?

Lucy couldn't destroy Gabe with such little effort. He was much stronger but no to that large degree seeing as Gabe was sure he'd put up a challenge. After 'clipping his wings' Raph was terrified and powerless in the face of Cas.

He also knows that Death > Arcangels, so just believing that his new powers brought him to Death's level shows Cas knew he was stronger than his brothers.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Thats just another one-sided limitation; Stopping one TB ghost returning, who would be useless without Marnie's body. Also stopping all the demons and angels from returning, thousands.
Besides, TB can't stop anyone in SN from coming back, when SN's can do just this.

Oh and unlike demons, when an angels vessel is destroyed the Angel can recover and heal the host body.

So take out said lacklustre beings, all we're losing is Lilith? Whose only standalone feat is defeating a spirit while in her own spirit form.

Demons aren't weak against sunlight, all it would do is knock them back. As said, at best they can Glamour average hunters and find out the weakness to low level demons and monsters. Basically they'll be coming up with salt, iron and holy water. They won't be able to Glamour hunters with strong will, hell proves this.
But lets assume that it works or they're doing it on a normal hunter: They're going to be standing still during a battle asking about what method kills which enemy, then how to find and/or make it, all of which will take quite some time. Not to mention getting the all of this info across, something which will be simple for Angels. The Angles+Hell can do this and execute the plan in under 5 mins.


In SN you have to be at a certain level of power to control beings. Unlike TB Vamps, SN beings have resistance according to how powerful they are. If you wan't to claim she controls low-tier creatures you may, cause thats the best for all the resistances. But as said, there are several Controllers in SN to overwrite her involvement. Just like I am stopping the True Blood spirits from just taking over other bodies as well. TB can glamour and use Dean,Sam and other hunters in acquiring the knowledge necessary to defeat Supernatural spirits. You can't assume the same rules apply to True Blood ghosts as do for the SN ghosts.

If the body is destroyed they are done. End of story.

No, they are not just losing Lilith as I've already explained. Honestly, quit crying about how much you hate my thread. I don't respect crybabies and whiners. Man up and argue within these parameters.

Demons are weak against simple drawings and symbols. It's be easy to draw symbols all over the place and corner them. Happens all the time. Yes, they can. Prove they cannot glamour them.

They take them aside and use them as they will. It also won't take long to hear the manners in which to destroy the demons. Faeries can also read each others minds and spread the word.

Marnie controls those who are dead. That's it. I don't care how SN works as this is how TB works.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Death isn't a vampire. Or undead. Marnie controls the dead. Death is dead just like the Reapers. TB dominates hard if we include death due to Marnie's control over death. Lucky for SN I gave them a chance.

Death isn't dead haermm To be dead you have to, you know, die? Quan what show have you been watching?


Originally posted by quanchi112
Just like I am stopping the True Blood spirits from just taking over other bodies as well. TB can glamour and use Dean,Sam and other hunters in acquiring the knowledge necessary to defeat Supernatural spirits. You can't assume the same rules apply to True Blood ghosts as do for the SN ghosts.
If the body is destroyed they are done. End of story.
No, they are not just losing Lilith as I've already explained. Honestly, quit crying about how much you hate my thread. I don't respect crybabies and whiners. Man up and argue within these parameters.

Demons are weak against simple drawings and symbols. It's be easy to draw symbols all over the place and corner them. Happens all the time. Yes, they can. Prove they cannot glamour them.

They take them aside and use them as they will. It also won't take long to hear the manners in which to destroy the demons. Faeries can also read each others minds and spread the word.

Marnie controls those who are dead. That's it. I don't care how SN works as this is how TB works. Wow, the dozen weak ghosts taking over bodies? That really does match the thousands for SN's side. But hey, thanks for reminding me that those thousands of demons could just posses any TB character :P
Yeah, limiting SN, thats what I said. Hate? I'm for any SN related thread I just like to point out your tendency to make threads where the side you're against is limited, which is baffling when you believe Russell could defeat everyone.

SN has weapons, spells and abilities to permanently stop TB ghost. That and stronger ghosts > weaker ones.



Nothing to do with my point but okay. The plan is to draw hundreds of devil traps all over the area? In the middle of battle? Besides the unanswered 'how will they get the time to glamour all the info then spread the word out to everyone in time to set it up before the attack starts' thing, there the fact that mid-demons and other creatures can make cracks in the ground and destroy the Trap, or get the assistance of the plagues of other SN beings. Good luck on this tactic. Keep in mind that SN can replicate this tactic and execute in before a vamp runs off and starts Glamouring.

This is what a vamp will get out of your average hunter: Devil Trap to hold demons. Salt, Holy water and Iron to harm them. Finally the Exorcism ritual. Not the most useful info, especially when there are still about 40 other types of things with their own weaknesses. Its just that the average Hunter wont know about all those methods. Theres only a small handful of Hunters that know how to barely contend with high-tier Demons and Angels.
On that, any decent Hunter will have access to silver(bullets too), stakes, something combustible and a good decapitating blade. Those 40 other creatures have their own methods above the Hunters in this thread.

Strong wills can resist, and its hard to come by the willpower to resist 30 years of daily torture and being ripped to shreds, with the offer to end it all constantly being asked and refused. Or resisting possession, notably Sam resisting Lucifer.



"Cant assume the same rules for TB as for SN" from that, to this in the same post "If it works in TB it will work in SN" Lol?

Originally posted by BloodRain
Death isn't dead haermm To be dead you have to, you know, die? Quan what show have you been watching?


Wow, the dozen weak ghosts taking over bodies? That really does match the thousands for SN's side. But hey, thanks for reminding me that those thousands of demons could just posses any TB character :P
Yeah, limiting SN, thats what I said. Hate? I'm for any SN related thread I just like to point out your tendency to make threads where the side you're against is limited, which is baffling when you believe Russell could defeat everyone.

SN has weapons, spells and abilities to permanently stop TB ghost. That and stronger ghosts > weaker ones.



Nothing to do with my point but okay. The plan is to draw hundreds of devil traps all over the area? In the middle of battle? Besides the unanswered 'how will they get the time to glamour all the info then spread the word out to everyone in time to set it up before the attack starts' thing, there the fact that mid-demons and other creatures can make cracks in the ground and destroy the Trap, or get the assistance of the plagues of other SN beings. Good luck on this tactic. Keep in mind that SN can replicate this tactic and execute in before a vamp runs off and starts Glamouring.

This is what a vamp will get out of your average hunter: Devil Trap to hold demons. Salt, Holy water and Iron to harm them. Finally the Exorcism ritual. Not the most useful info, especially when there are still about 40 other types of things with their own weaknesses. Its just that the average Hunter wont know about all those methods. Theres only a small handful of Hunters that know how to barely contend with high-tier Demons and Angels.
On that, any decent Hunter will have access to silver(bullets too), stakes, something combustible and a good decapitating blade. Those 40 other creatures have their own methods above the Hunters in this thread.

Strong wills can resist, and its hard to come by the willpower to resist 30 years of daily torture and being ripped to shreds, with the offer to end it all constantly being asked and refused. Or resisting possession, notably Sam resisting Lucifer.



"Cant assume the same rules for TB as for SN" from that, to this in the same post "If it works in TB it will work in SN" Lol? Death is the embodiment of death he doesn't need to live and die. Operates on the same plane.



As I said quit crying over my thread parameters.

Who says the TB ghosts follow the same rules as Supernatural ghosts ? Honestly, do you even think of some of the theories you post.

It would be easy for vamps to do so at their speed. Easy for humans to trap them in these traps let alone super fast vampires. They also have Marnie who can control their vampires.


Glamour Sam and Dean. Nuff said.

The hunters won't be fast enough to stop the vampires and can be glamoured as well.

What examples of strong willpower resisting being glamoured ?


Sam also barely did in the moment and basically gave in. He won't be aware of what is going on unlike in that situation.

Death isn't dead in Supernatural, so it's not the same thing. He's a being that's almost as old as, if not as old as, god himself. There's only one way to control him, and it's out of range of the TB people.

Angels in supernatural that were lesser then "the Devil" were able to change reality. Also in his "imperfect" host no other creature could even harm him....He took attacks from Gods and just brushed it off like it was nothing then snapped his fingers and they all died. Even in his Imperfect form The Devil solos.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Death is the embodiment of death he doesn't need to live and die. Operates on the same plane.



As I said quit crying over my thread parameters.

Who says the TB ghosts follow the same rules as Supernatural ghosts ? Honestly, do you even think of some of the theories you post.



ooooh the Irony......

Then by your own assessment you admit just because Marnie can control Death in TB has no bearing on if she could control Death from supernatural. Who is to say Supernatural's Death follows the same rules as TB's Death.

As PR said, hes not even dead as you claim.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Death is the embodiment of death he doesn't need to live and die. Operates on the same plane.
As I said quit crying over my thread parameters. Not dead, explained above.

Don't get so emotional. The limits are there, threads begun.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Who says the TB ghosts follow the same rules as Supernatural ghosts ? Honestly, do you even think of some of the theories you post.

It would be easy for vamps to do so at their speed. Easy for humans to trap them in these traps let alone super fast vampires. They also have Marnie who can control their vampires.

Glamour Sam and Dean. Nuff said.

The hunters won't be fast enough to stop the vampires and can be glamoured as well.SN ghosts can interact with ghosts, TB ghosts are screwed. I'll expand; SN weaps, spells and abilities that can kill just about anything, things above both SN and TB ghosts, will stop a TB ghost.

Unlikely. Mid-demons and many, many other team-mates destroy the circle. Well that was a waste of their prep time.

Keep in mind that SN can replicate this tactic and execute it before a vamp runs off and starts Glamouring.

Concession that getting anyone else but 4 characters on the whole board would be useless to get info from? And out of hundreds they're instantly going to know who to target?

Average humans in TB have done so. Jason with his month of para-military training and less than a year as a cop gave him the means to dispatch of dozens of vampires who were on high alert... Hunters will get a death toll, or even gear up the other SN's.
Originally posted by quanchi112 What examples of strong willpower resisting being glamoured ?
Sam also barely did in the moment and basically gave in. He won't be aware of what is going on unlike in that situation. ..30 years hell? Every day for 30 years Dean was professionally tortured, ripped to shreds, put back together and asked at the end of each day to join the Demon to put an end to the torture. He willingly refused 11,000 times. It would take incredible will to do this. John managed this for 100 years (36,500 times). If these two are this strong you can bet Sam and Bobby could take it too. And these are the four who have the vital info.

Strong willed humans can resist it from low-tier demons. Low-demon < mid-demon <<< high-demon <<<<<< Arcangel.. which Sam was able to resist, completly stopping it for as long as we saw him before falling. Its not about when, its about the high willpower needed to accomplish such a task. Well above stong human willpower, so enough to resist Glamouring.

Originally posted by BlackZero30x
ooooh the Irony......

Then by your own assessment you admit just because Marnie can control Death in TB has no bearing on if she could control Death from supernatural. Who is to say Supernatural's Death follows the same rules as TB's Death.

As PR said, hes not even dead as you claim. Death was controlled in the series. He is in same state as reapers. Marnie controls him. He is used to being controlled.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Death isn't dead in Supernatural, so it's not the same thing. He's a being that's almost as old as, if not as old as, god himself. There's only one way to control him, and it's out of range of the TB people. Not true. I believe this way would work. We all know he can be controlled. Believe he can't be controlled but since he has already been controlled more evidence in my favor.

Death was controlled in a way that's inaccessible to the TB people, so no, you're actually wrong, but I know you'd never admit that.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Not dead, explained above.

Don't get so emotional. The limits are there, threads begun.
SN ghosts can interact with ghosts, TB ghosts are screwed. I'll expand; SN weaps, spells and abilities that can kill just about anything, things above both SN and TB ghosts, will stop a TB ghost.

Unlikely. Mid-demons and many, many other team-mates destroy the circle. Well that was a waste of their prep time.

Keep in mind that SN can replicate this tactic and execute it before a vamp runs off and starts Glamouring.

Concession that getting anyone else but 4 characters on the whole board would be useless to get info from? And out of hundreds they're instantly going to know who to target?

Average humans in TB have done so. Jason with his month of para-military training and less than a year as a cop gave him the means to dispatch of dozens of vampires who were on high alert... Hunters will get a death toll, or even gear up the other SN's.
..30 years hell? Every day for 30 years Dean was professionally tortured, ripped to shreds, put back together and asked at the end of each day to join the Demon to put an end to the torture. He willingly refused 11,000 times. It would take incredible will to do this. John managed this for 100 years (36,500 times). If these two are this strong you can bet Sam and Bobby could take it too. And these are the four who have the vital info.

Strong willed humans can resist it from low-tier demons. Low-demon < mid-demon <<< high-demon <<<<<< Arcangel.. which Sam was able to resist, completly stopping it for as long as we saw him before falling. Its not about when, its about the high willpower needed to accomplish such a task. Well above stong human willpower, so enough to resist Glamouring. In same state as reapers. I heard you complain so drop it.

TB ghosts can overtake humans so lucky for SN I left them out.

They are protected by Weres, shifters, and vamps. Good luck with that.

No, they can't as they don't have the speed TB vamps have.

They can read minds so they can assess this in battle. Fae.

Not against the upper echelon of TB vamps. Jason is at Russell's mercy and his bidding. Humans are a non factor.

What humans in TB can resist glamouring due to strong will ?

Not the same with glamouring.

Show a strong willed human resisting glamouring here to even consider this is the same thing.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Death was controlled in the series. He is in same state as reapers. Marnie controls him. He is used to being controlled.

and there you go arguing against yourself again.....

You are assuming that magic in both universes work in the same way. You have no way of knowing if Marnie is even able to do the ritual Sam and Dean did. So basically...............


Originally posted by -Pr-
Death was controlled in a way that's inaccessible to the TB people, so no, you're actually wrong, but I know you'd never admit that.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Death was controlled in a way that's inaccessible to the TB people, so no, you're actually wrong, but I know you'd never admit that. Marnie isn't in the Supernatural universe but since we know Death can be controlled there is no evidence to suggest he resists here.


I'm right as rain.

Originally posted by BlackZero30x
and there you go arguing against yourself again.....

You are assuming that magic in both universes work in the same way. You have no way of knowing if Marnie is even able to do the ritual Sam and Dean did. So basically............... You say she can't I say she can. That simple but evidence suggests I am right.


Death can be controlled.
Marnie has power over the dead.


Two facts whereas your side has nuh uh responses.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You say she can't I say she can. That simple but evidence suggests I am right.


Death can be controlled.
Marnie has power over the dead.


Two facts whereas your side has nuh uh responses.

There is no evidence to say you are right at all. In the supernatural verse Death can be bound but it has no bearing on weather Marnie can control him. What you are arguing right now make no sense at all. I could get on board with the "hes been controlled once so he can be again" argument but the problem with your argument is.....

1) He was controlled by one ritual and there is no proof anything but that ritual could control him. Show me proof.

2) you are sure good at claiming he's dead but not so good at proving he is. The argument "hes death means hes dead" doesn't fly.

The truth is Marnie would have to get access to the ritual from the Supernatural verse to bind and control him...which is beyond her reach.

Originally posted by quanchi112
In same state as reapers. I heard you complain so drop it.
Death is not dead, nor are his reapers. To be dead you have to die, which they haven't to get to that state. Meaning either they're alive or live outside of conventional life/death, meaning they're still not dead.
Emotions.

Originally posted by quanchi112
TB ghosts can overtake humans so lucky for SN I left them out.
They are protected by Weres, shifters, and vamps. Good luck with that.
They can read minds so they can assess this in battle. Fae.
No, they can't as they don't have the speed TB vamps have.
Not against the upper echelon of TB vamps. Jason is at Russell's mercy and his bidding. Humans are a non factor.
You mean like SN's Kharn Worms, Ghosts and Demons doing so to TB?

Weres and Shifters are no threat at all with their mortal bodies, Hellhounds would defeat both beasts easily. Vamps? Sure, just they would have to actively stop everyone from making the slightest break in the circle, physically or though their powers. This would take far too much prep (getting the info and drawing them all) and a lot of effort to maintain (making sure demons step in it and stopping them or others from breaking it) it to be a useful strategy, particularly when the only result is simply trapping demons.
At what point is anyone going to think about the methods of killing their own team? Fae can't read vamps, unless the vamps going to tell one, who will inform the rest, who will then spread the word out to other vamps and.. did I mention the effort point yet?

The thing is that while TB would need to Glamour 4 people of the whole SN side, everyone in TB knows 5 important weaknesses of Vampires: Fire, Sunlight, Silver, Decapitation and Wooden stake. Less but still knowledgeable is being susceptible to magic and being rendered useless from Hep D. Anyone abducted will be highly useful. Then we look at how are these vamps are going to stop this from happening?:
Arcangels, Seraphs and Lilith (some others) can blink and take whomever they want. Angels, Reapers and Azazal (some othes) can teleport anyone away with a touch. Leviathans can take all their knowledge from a touch. And all of those who can read and tinker with minds. It would be easy to get any information, and info can be easily passed due to their powers.
And with that the Reapers, Arcangels, Seraphs, Pestilence and Witches can just give all Vampires Hep D or infect them with silver.
Or the Arcangels, Seraphs, Angels and some Demons, Witches and Pagen Gods setting them ablaze.
Or the Arcangels, Seraphs, Witches and Crossroad Demons taking their hearts away.

Im not going to say that Rufus runs in and solos Russell.. Humans, trained and untrained have killed vampires. Jason's body count being evidence of this. We've seen this happen to <500 Vamps, even to a 1,000+. If humans can combat vamps, even get the jump on Eric, then Hunters will at the very least get a vamps corpse to their name. Anyhow besides Hunters being useful here, they are also great suppliers to when they discover the Vamps weaknesses.

Originally posted by quanchi112
What humans in TB can resist glamouring due to strong will ?
Not the same with glamouring.
Show a strong willed human resisting glamouring here to even consider this is the same thing. Eric says Ginger is easy to control for being weak minded. Its also proven that Maenad's mind control > Glamour, yet some were able to partially resist that like the great Terry. Mental control can be resisted in TB, and besides having those with capable resistance in SN we have greater tiers of control being resisted.



Q:
1. Access to the Rabbits foot?
2. Are Bobby/John humans or ghosts?
3. Does Dean get any powers from being a Vampire or with Death's ring? Or even a temp ghost for him and Sam?
4. Does Sam get his Demon powers?
5. Is God-Cas in this thread?

Originally posted by BlackZero30x
There is no evidence to say you are right at all. In the supernatural verse Death can be bound but it has no bearing on weather Marnie can control him. What you are arguing right now make no sense at all. I could get on board with the "hes been controlled once so he can be again" argument but the problem with your argument is.....

1) He was controlled by one ritual and there is no proof anything but that ritual could control him. Show me proof.

2) you are sure good at claiming he's dead but not so good at proving he is. The argument "hes death means hes dead" doesn't fly.

The truth is Marnie would have to get access to the ritual from the Supernatural verse to bind and control him...which is beyond her reach. She is from another verse but as I said the evidence favors me since he's dead and Death has been controlled by less.

1) that is because that is only according to SN characters not TB ones.

2) he is Death and appears same plane as the dead.


No, she wouldn't. I believe she uses her spells and controls him all the same.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Death is not dead, nor are his reapers. To be dead you have to die, which they haven't to get to that state. Meaning either they're alive or live outside of conventional life/death, meaning they're still not dead.
Emotions.


You mean like SN's Kharn Worms, Ghosts and Demons doing so to TB?

Weres and Shifters are no threat at all with their mortal bodies, Hellhounds would defeat both beasts easily. Vamps? Sure, just they would have to actively stop everyone from making the slightest break in the circle, physically or though their powers. This would take far too much prep (getting the info and drawing them all) and a lot of effort to maintain (making sure demons step in it and stopping them or others from breaking it) it to be a useful strategy, particularly when the only result is simply trapping demons.
At what point is anyone going to think about the methods of killing their own team? Fae can't read vamps, unless the vamps going to tell one, who will inform the rest, who will then spread the word out to other vamps and.. did I mention the effort point yet?

The thing is that while TB would need to Glamour 4 people of the whole SN side, everyone in TB knows 5 important weaknesses of Vampires: Fire, Sunlight, Silver, Decapitation and Wooden stake. Less but still knowledgeable is being susceptible to magic and being rendered useless from Hep D. Anyone abducted will be highly useful. Then we look at how are these vamps are going to stop this from happening?:
Arcangels, Seraphs and Lilith (some others) can blink and take whomever they want. Angels, Reapers and Azazal (some othes) can teleport anyone away with a touch. Leviathans can take all their knowledge from a touch. And all of those who can read and tinker with minds. It would be easy to get any information, and info can be easily passed due to their powers.
And with that the Reapers, Arcangels, Seraphs, Pestilence and Witches can just give all Vampires Hep D or infect them with silver.
Or the Arcangels, Seraphs, Angels and some Demons, Witches and Pagen Gods setting them ablaze.
Or the Arcangels, Seraphs, Witches and Crossroad Demons taking their hearts away.

Im not going to say that Rufus runs in and solos Russell.. Humans, trained and untrained have killed vampires. Jason's body count being evidence of this. We've seen this happen to <500 Vamps, even to a 1,000+. If humans can combat vamps, even get the jump on Eric, then Hunters will at the very least get a vamps corpse to their name. Anyhow besides Hunters being useful here, they are also great suppliers to when they discover the Vamps weaknesses.

Eric says Ginger is easy to control for being weak minded. Its also proven that Maenad's mind control > Glamour, yet some were able to partially resist that like the great Terry. Mental control can be resisted in TB, and besides having those with capable resistance in SN we have greater tiers of control being resisted.



Q:
1. Access to the Rabbits foot?
2. Are Bobby/John humans or ghosts?
3. Does Dean get any powers from being a Vampire or with Death's ring? Or even a temp ghost for him and Sam?
4. Does Sam get his Demon powers?
5. Is God-Cas in this thread? Yes, they are. He is literally death and she has power over the dead. They are dead but of course you believe Death isn't dead.

Not as formidable as TB ghosts since salt and what not can destroy them, easily.

Yes, they are. Sam can also fly into someone and explode their bodies. Hell hounds are invisible so are not here. Not at all. We have mindreaders and vamps who can glamour.

That's just the vamps not the hunters. That is who have all the methods to kill the SN characters. Even with said weaknesses easier said that done due to speed and weaponry of all the TB characters.

They can also be killed quickly by vamps. A lot is going to happen very quickly here due to TB vamp speed. Maryann can control all human characters as well.


Leviathans are easy to kill with certain household cleaning products. It's easier for tB characters to take control than the other way around. We also have Authority here which is organized as well as Bilith, Warlow, and Russell clearly all on another level.


Thats just the same as saying humans can be a threat to high ranking demons, etc. thing is TB characters take each other on supernaturally not just two humans hitting the road and massacring them all.

Being easier to do so means it is easier. When has a Glamour failed on a human ? Maryann was greater than most vamps save Russell, Bilith, Godric, and Warlow. Her control over people was impressive.



1. No.
2. Humans. All physical beings only from both sides.
3. No, just human.
4. No.
5. No.

Originally posted by quanchi112
She is from another verse but as I said the evidence favors me since he's dead and Death has been controlled by less.

1) that is because that is only according to SN characters not TB ones.

2) he is Death and appears same plane as the dead.


No, she wouldn't. I believe she uses her spells and controls him all the same.

And as I said it simply does not.

In SN Death was controlled by a particular ritual spell and nothing else so its on you to prove that Marnie's magic could even do anything to him.

The episode where Dean "killed himself" to meet with Death was because there was no way to summon him. The only way he knew how to contact him was through the reapers. That doesn't mean Death is dead. In fact Death says himself "Nothing can last forever...well except me" He also says he's as old as God or older...that "neither one of us can remember who came first" and that "One day I'll reap him to" In reference to God. Your only single evidence you have is that he exists on the same plane as the dead. Which is not entirely accurate actually. Death can exist on any plane he wants. He can exist in heave, hell, earth, and the spiritual plane as already mentioned and shown in the show itself. So unless you can show proof that he can simply be controlled by someone who controls the dead(which you can't because it doesn't happen....ever) your entire argument is invalid.

Originally posted by BlackZero30x
And as I said it simply does not.

In SN Death was controlled by a particular ritual spell and nothing else so its on you to prove that Marnie's magic could even do anything to him.

The episode where Dean "killed himself" to meet with Death was because there was no way to summon him. The only way he knew how to contact him was through the reapers. That doesn't mean Death is dead. In fact Death says himself "Nothing can last forever...well except me" He also says he's as old as God or older...that "neither one of us can remember who came first" and that "One day I'll reap him to" In reference to God. Your only single evidence you have is that he exists on the same plane as the dead. Which is not entirely accurate actually. Death can exist on any plane he wants. He can exist in heave, hell, earth, and the spiritual plane as already mentioned and shown in the show itself. So unless you can show proof that he can simply be controlled by someone who controls the dead(which you can't because it doesn't happen....ever) your entire argument is invalid. Marnie does not exist in his universe so entirely different. We know he can be controlled so quit acting like there is some kind of proof since both only exist in their own shows.

Dead characters just exist on a different plane. They are dead. They still exist. Yes, he exists but is still dead. Undeniable. Try and twist it all you want but he's being controlled by Marnie hence the reason I left him out.


Death is easy to control.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Marnie does not exist in his universe so entirely different. We know he can be controlled so quit acting like there is some kind of proof since both only exist in their own shows.

Dead characters just exist on a different plane. They are dead. They still exist. Yes, he exists but is still dead. Undeniable. Try and twist it all you want but he's being controlled by Marnie hence the reason I left him out.


Death is easy to control.

You are the one thats acting as if there is some kind of proof....which is why im asking to see it. When I have yet to see any. In fact not only have you given no proof to support that she could control him. The only thing you could even claim is evidence is death can be bound by a ritual. A ritual Marnie doesn't know. Its that simple. Now that I have you quoted at admitting there is no proof and you only have your same tired faulty argument...well that sums it up. So until you can give some kind of proof that Death is dead you have nothing.


And as seen on the show Death exists on any plane he chooses. Im not twisting anything. In fact between the two of us I have more to back me up. You even admitted there is no evidence for your case. He has been controlled by a ritual that was created specifically to control him. That by no means says "Death is easy to control".

Originally posted by BlackZero30x
You are the one thats acting as if there is some kind of proof....which is why im asking to see it. When I have yet to see any. In fact not only have you given no proof to support that she could control him. The only thing you could even claim is evidence is death can be bound by a ritual. A ritual Marnie doesn't know. Its that simple. Now that I have you quoted at admitting there is no proof and you only have your same tired faulty argument...well that sums it up. So until you can give some kind of proof that Death is dead you have nothing.


And as seen on the show Death exists on any plane he chooses. Im not twisting anything. In fact between the two of us I have more to back me up. You even admitted there is no evidence for your case. He has been controlled by a ritual that was created specifically to control him. That by no means says "Death is easy to control". there is not only one way to control him. Saying Death isn't dead is hilarious. The Reapers and Death according to you are both alive and brush their teeth at night before bed time.

There is no evidence for yours either. What we know is he can be controlled. Marnie can control dead. He's Death. Sorry, you lose.

Originally posted by quanchi112
there is not only one way to control him. Saying Death isn't dead is hilarious. The Reapers and Death according to you are both alive and brush their teeth at night before bed time.

There is no evidence for yours either. What we know is he can be controlled. Marnie can control dead. He's Death. Sorry, you lose.

ooh ok well im waiting on that list of ways to control Death. So please post it. I wouldn't go that far as there is no onscreen evidence that he brushes his teeth Anyways if thats you qualification for being alive then anyone can be.

There isn't huh?! News to me. I guess you have never seen the show then. He is a being like God except he is Immortal where as God will one day be Reaped. Death predates "the dead" actually.....in fact he quite possibly predates God himself. I lose do I?! Only in your mind Quan......

Originally posted by BlackZero30x
ooh ok well im waiting on that list of ways to control Death. So please post it. I wouldn't go that far as there is no onscreen evidence that he brushes his teeth Anyways if thats you qualification for being alive then anyone can be.

There isn't huh?! News to me. I guess you have never seen the show then. He is a being like God except he is Immortal where as God will one day be Reaped. Death predates "the dead" actually.....in fact he quite possibly predates God himself. I lose do I?! Only in your mind Quan...... It was a joke. Death is death therefore he isn't alive unless you can prove it.

No, there isn't. Marnie controls the dead aka Death who has been controlled before. Yes, a being who is dead and can reap him someday is all. That's it. Death is being controlled by the witch.

Originally posted by quanchi112
It was a joke. Death is death therefore he isn't alive unless you can prove it.

No, there isn't. Marnie controls the dead aka Death who has been controlled before. Yes, a being who is dead and can reap him someday is all. That's it. Death is being controlled by the witch.

lmao and I guess Green Lantern is Green Light....

Anyways your logic doesn't track and you have nothing but the same tired argument. Your gonna think what you want no matter what so have at it. But you are wrong.

Still waiting on that list.

Originally posted by BlackZero30x
lmao and I guess Green Lantern is Green Light....

Anyways your logic doesn't track and you have nothing but the same tired argument. Your gonna think what you want no matter what so have at it. But you are wrong.

Still waiting on that list. He is a mortal who doesn't provide the green light itself.

You concede. Good.

Marnie controls the dead aka Death.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He is a mortal who doesn't provide the green light itself.

You concede. Good.

Marnie controls the dead aka Death.

Nope according to your logic he is green lantern therefore he is green light.

lol You would think I concede. Its your style of "debate" You make up a bunch of non sense, don't provide any form of proof other then the "You lose" until someone gets tired of you making claims with no back up then in your mind they concede.

Its the same claim you keep making without any kind of proof. Keep up the good debate tactic!

Anyways give the list in your next response or concede....

The "Death is dead" line so easily countered by "No he isnt". There needs to be a shred of evidence to claim he's deceased.

Originally posted by BloodRain
The "Death is dead" line so easily countered by "No he isnt". There needs to be a shred of evidence to claim he's deceased. He is Death itself so acting as if he isn't is baseless, honestly.

Originally posted by BlackZero30x
Nope according to your logic he is green lantern therefore he is green light.

lol You would think I concede. Its your style of "debate" You make up a bunch of non sense, don't provide any form of proof other then the "You lose" until someone gets tired of you making claims with no back up then in your mind they concede.

Its the same claim you keep making without any kind of proof. Keep up the good debate tactic!

Anyways give the list in your next response or concede.... We are talking about the Death who empowers all the other lanterns, Reapers.

You have not provided any evidence yourself. I barely know anything about you. You're practically a ghost.

I have already proven my case your nuh uh responses aren't going to cut it.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He is Death itself so acting as if he isn't is baseless, honestly. He is not dead so acting as if he is baseless.

You want to make a claim you'll have to support it. Governing death does not mean he has to be dead. Because if he is dead, who reaped the Reaper?

Originally posted by BloodRain
He is not dead so acting as if he is baseless.

You want to make a claim you'll have to support it. Governing death does not mean he has to be dead. Because if he is dead, who reaped the Reaper? Death is the embodiment of the concept yet he isn't dead ?

Yes, he is.

He always existed as death or the concept.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Death is the embodiment of the concept yet he isn't dead ?

Yes, he is.

He always existed as death or the concept. Why would he be? You said it yourself he's the concept of 'Death', the thing that takes away your mortality. Death is the means, dead is the result. To be dead you have to be die, and our eternal concept here has not gone through this process. His existence is that of angels and other concepts, none of them are dead until they die.

And if it wasn't for the fact that this is a Supernatural thread, that 'you're not dead until you die' line would look so.. yeah. :T

Originally posted by quanchi112
We are talking about the Death who empowers all the other lanterns, Reapers.

You have not provided any evidence yourself. I barely know anything about you. You're practically a ghost.

I have already proven my case your nuh uh responses aren't going to cut it.

Thats because I haven't spent a lot of time in the debate sections for a long time. I use to debate in the comic vs then haven't been there for a few years. I started staying around the Movie vs mostly. I just started back up at posting more regularly. But......The Forum Ghost....I kinda like that! But I have been around these forums for a lot longer then what people think So I do know you.....or at least have seen you in action before.

You say I have no base for my claim. I have the show to back me up. You are the one with the Nuh responses. You are sitting there(presumably lol) making claims ignoring my requests and telling me im wrong....Thats not debating.

Please tell me of Marnie's greatest feat in controlling the dead. Something that compares to binding and controlling a primordial immortal with the power to give and take life on a whim to anything, on as massive a scale as Death from supernatural. Show me the proof that she has controlled someone on the power scale that can take the life of an all seeing and all knowing God, A being that can exist in any plane of existence they choose. Someone who's power is only rivaled by the very God that is going to be reaped one day anyways. He has been controlled by a ritual big whoop that doesn't mean he can be controlled by anything. Marnie needs that ritual or its not gonna happen.

So show me what was requested above and show me the requested list I have asked for 3 times already. If you don't then I suppose everyone here can chalk your claims up to either trolling or that you actually do know your wrong but just dont wanna admit it.......

Salt disperses SNGhosts, doesn't destroy them and they reform right away. What do we see from TBghosts? Possession and some TK? Compared to possession, some TK, super strength and speed, some element manipulation and creating physical harm on people with a thought? SNghosts are stronger, as are SNdemons.

Were's are fairly strong humans who can turn into normal wolves, any Hunter would kill one. Shifters are average in body so will have to rely on animals forms; The most dangerous things we've seen is a bull and crocodile, any Hunter would kill one. In fact that fly-head-boom is the single thing a Shifter could do to pose a threat here. Being invisible make H.Hounds unbeatable? And how does either of that stop mid-demons or the many other beings all around from breaking the circle? TB: Find a human > abduct to disclosed are > glamour some info on the 40 creatures > inform a Fae > telepathically inform all Fae > inform as many vamps as possible > get resources and draw Devil Traps > lure demons into traps > stop said demon or others from breaking it > deal with the trapped demon.. How is this not a lot of effort for minimal reward? How long is it going to take? SN: Abduct anyone to hell > torture (On earth it would take less than a min) > telepathically inform all Angles > execute plan. This could be finishing by the time the vamps finishing glamouring.

Not sure what youre saying here. There are only 4 Hunters that know about higher SN weaknesses, so somehow the vamps would need to know exactly who to take. And its not easier said then done.. at all; Arcangels, Seraphs, Angels, Reapers, Pestilence, some Witches, Demons and Pagen gods... They can take infect them with Hep D, silver in their blood, set them on fire or take away their hearts.. all with a gesture. Can you honestly say that any plan TB comes up with could be as quick and dangerous as fatal gestures?

And on speed, only Eric and above vamps could possibly move at bullet speed. That makes a total of 6. Strong demons and strong witches are able to replicate this speed and reactions, and they're mid tier. The other mid and lower SN creatures? They're just somewhere superhuman in speed, but as are <500yr vamps. What I'm saying is that unless you want to get into the specifics of their speed, its a moot point.

Oh yeah, just find some products with Borax in it and a Levi will sizzle. Question time; Who has the Borax products? Even less people know about this weakness and Levi's are indistinguishable from other human looking beings. Lets not forget that Levi's have the strength to choke any vampire into the ground without much effort. And this is because...
About strength, Vamps are not high ranking here. Ripping out a humans spine and knocking heads off? Several low tier SNs like Were's use this method just to feast. Throwing people around? We see that happen with every strong SN. Casually tipping a 0.75 ton car? Jake with his mid-demon strength casually lifted a military vehicle where even a small one would be twice the weight of Sookie's car.
SN: Were's, Vamps < mid-demons < high-demons, Angels, Pagens < Seraphs, Leviathan < Arcangels
Maybe Warlow and Bill possess to strength to overpower mid-demon and harm an Angel.. thats as high as they get.

Mm no, its close but no. Certain pro Hunters can at best get the drop on high-demons with prep, assistance and after a lot of trial and error and timing. The only thing humans pose a threat to in one-on-one are low-demons, Hunters with the right gear and prep get mid-demons. TB have shown over and over that while Vamps overpower humans, in one-on-one with gear a competent human can kill low to mid tier Vampire. Basically the 500 or less club can't be too reckless.

Originally posted by quanchi112 Being easier to do so means it is easier. When has a Glamour failed on a human ? Maryann was greater than most vamps save Russell, Bilith, Godric, and Warlow. Her control over people was impressive.

1. No. 2. Humans. All physical beings only from both sides. 3. No, just human. 4. No. 5. No. For having a weak mind, and like said people could resist something more potent than Glamour. Now what makes you think the 5 over 2,000yr are greater? Unlike their stats Glamour has been proven to be a practiced art, not to do with age. Like how a Vamp can have no access to or have poor skill if not developed, or how despite being 174 years her elder Bill's Glamour skills were competing with Jess'. We can make a fair assumption that those 5's skills are above Bill's, but there'd have to be a reason to assume its above an ancient mystical creature.

Yeah figured Dean and Cas wouldn't have those amps but what about Cas, he a Seraph? And why no Rabbits foot or Demon Sam?

Originally posted by BloodRain
Why would he be? You said it yourself he's the concept of 'Death', the thing that takes away your mortality. Death is the means, dead is the result. To be dead you have to be die, and our eternal concept here has not gone through this process. His existence is that of angels and other concepts, none of them are dead until they die.

And if it wasn't for the fact that this is a Supernatural thread, that 'you're not dead until you die' line would look so.. yeah. :T So he is the embodiment so why is he alive again ? No, you can exist as Death without having died.


He can be controlled so..


Marnie controls him.

You keep saying 'Death' the title, not 'dead' the state.

Originally posted by BlackZero30x
Thats because I haven't spent a lot of time in the debate sections for a long time. I use to debate in the comic vs then haven't been there for a few years. I started staying around the Movie vs mostly. I just started back up at posting more regularly. But......The Forum Ghost....I kinda like that! But I have been around these forums for a lot longer then what people think So I do know you.....or at least have seen you in action before.

You say I have no base for my claim. I have the show to back me up. You are the one with the Nuh responses. You are sitting there(presumably lol) making claims ignoring my requests and telling me im wrong....Thats not debating.

Please tell me of Marnie's greatest feat in controlling the dead. Something that compares to binding and controlling a primordial immortal with the power to give and take life on a whim to anything, on as massive a scale as Death from supernatural. Show me the proof that she has controlled someone on the power scale that can take the life of an all seeing and all knowing God, A being that can exist in any plane of existence they choose. Someone who's power is only rivaled by the very God that is going to be reaped one day anyways. He has been controlled by a ritual big whoop that doesn't mean he can be controlled by anything. Marnie needs that ritual or its not gonna happen.

So show me what was requested above and show me the requested list I have asked for 3 times already. If you don't then I suppose everyone here can chalk your claims up to either trolling or that you actually do know your wrong but just dont wanna admit it....... Well I do get around and make some noise.

What we know is Marnie controls the dead and Death can be controlled. Pretty logical conclusion here.

That does not matter as people less powerful than Death have controlled him before. All ghosts are immortal and she bound Antonia to her. Awesome feat.


You are angry that all the evidence supports me and nothing supports you.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Salt disperses SNGhosts, doesn't destroy them and they reform right away. What do we see from TBghosts? Possession and some TK? Compared to possession, some TK, super strength and speed, some element manipulation and creating physical harm on people with a thought? SNghosts are stronger, as are SNdemons.

Were's are fairly strong humans who can turn into normal wolves, any Hunter would kill one. Shifters are average in body so will have to rely on animals forms; The most dangerous things we've seen is a bull and crocodile, any Hunter would kill one. In fact that fly-head-boom is the single thing a Shifter could do to pose a threat here. Being invisible make H.Hounds unbeatable? And how does either of that stop mid-demons or the many other beings all around from breaking the circle? TB: Find a human > abduct to disclosed are > glamour some info on the 40 creatures > inform a Fae > telepathically inform all Fae > inform as many vamps as possible > get resources and draw Devil Traps > lure demons into traps > stop said demon or others from breaking it > deal with the trapped demon.. How is this not a lot of effort for minimal reward? How long is it going to take? SN: Abduct anyone to hell > torture (On earth it would take less than a min) > telepathically inform all Angles > execute plan. This could be finishing by the time the vamps finishing glamouring.

Not sure what youre saying here. There are only 4 Hunters that know about higher SN weaknesses, so somehow the vamps would need to know exactly who to take. And its not easier said then done.. at all; Arcangels, Seraphs, Angels, Reapers, Pestilence, some Witches, Demons and Pagen gods... They can take infect them with Hep D, silver in their blood, set them on fire or take away their hearts.. all with a gesture. Can you honestly say that any plan TB comes up with could be as quick and dangerous as fatal gestures?

And on speed, only Eric and above vamps could possibly move at bullet speed. That makes a total of 6. Strong demons and strong witches are able to replicate this speed and reactions, and they're mid tier. The other mid and lower SN creatures? They're just somewhere superhuman in speed, but as are <500yr vamps. What I'm saying is that unless you want to get into the specifics of their speed, its a moot point.

Oh yeah, just find some products with Borax in it and a Levi will sizzle. Question time; Who has the Borax products? Even less people know about this weakness and Levi's are indistinguishable from other human looking beings. Lets not forget that Levi's have the strength to choke any vampire into the ground without much effort. And this is because...
About strength, Vamps are not high ranking here. Ripping out a humans spine and knocking heads off? Several low tier SNs like Were's use this method just to feast. Throwing people around? We see that happen with every strong SN. Casually tipping a 0.75 ton car? Jake with his mid-demon strength casually lifted a military vehicle where even a small one would be twice the weight of Sookie's car.
SN: Were's, Vamps < mid-demons < high-demons, Angels, Pagens < Seraphs, Leviathan < Arcangels
Maybe Warlow and Bill possess to strength to overpower mid-demon and harm an Angel.. thats as high as they get.

Mm no, its close but no. Certain pro Hunters can at best get the drop on high-demons with prep, assistance and after a lot of trial and error and timing. The only thing humans pose a threat to in one-on-one are low-demons, Hunters with the right gear and prep get mid-demons. TB have shown over and over that while Vamps overpower humans, in one-on-one with gear a competent human can kill low to mid tier Vampire. Basically the 500 or less club can't be too reckless.

For having a weak mind, and like said people could resist something more potent than Glamour. Now what makes you think the 5 over 2,000yr are greater? Unlike their stats Glamour has been proven to be a practiced art, not to do with age. Like how a Vamp can have no access to or have poor skill if not developed, or how despite being 174 years her elder Bill's Glamour skills were competing with Jess'. We can make a fair assumption that those 5's skills are above Bill's, but there'd have to be a reason to assume its above an ancient mystical creature.

Yeah figured Dean and Cas wouldn't have those amps but what about Cas, he a Seraph? And why no Rabbits foot or Demon Sam? No, I disagree. Salt doesn't take them out. There are any ways to defeat SN ghosts unlike TB but who cares as it isn't up for debate here.

You are greatly exaggerating the shitty hunters. They aren't anything special. We have seen them beaten time and time again due to death, etc. they are the stars hence they always comes back.


Non physical beings aren't in the thread so no Hell hounds. This won't all be taking place in 10 minutes both sides will have time to regroup, etc.

TB intel is going to happen quickly here as they can glamour or read minds and speak to each other. Makers can also sense their progeny.


No, it cannot. We see demons struggle against far less formidable beings than TB supernaturals.

No non physical beings are included here. They can't all do so easily but all demons and dead types can be controlled by Marnie.

Give me an example of demons who cannot be controlled due to being dead by Marnie who can replicate this feat ?

Dean and Sam know. Glamouring. Game over.


What makes you feel physical strength cannot harm an upper ranking angel or demon in a human body ?

That's just the heroes always winning type nonsense. We see more or less they prevail but they don't really pose a threat to vamps, Mary Anne, or Fae.

When has Glamour been resisted ? If you can't name a time a human has resisted it then it works against non supernatural types.

I want the characters as they normally appear.

Originally posted by BloodRain
You keep saying 'Death' the title, not 'dead' the state. He isn't in the thread anyways so who cares.

I'm sure Death does, he's not a big fan.

Originally posted by BloodRain
I'm sure Death does, he's not a big fan. Death was not included to give SN a chance.

So put him in, see what happens.

Originally posted by BloodRain
So put him in, see what happens. Too late. Can't mid thread tamper. Sets a bad precedent.

Speaks for that confidence of Death soloing TB.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Speaks for that confidence of Death soloing TB. Create your own thread. I created this for my own reasons. Quit begging to change the thread topic.

Couldn't hear that over the wall of vamps Death piled up while you were typing that reply.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Couldn't hear that over the wall of vamps Death piled up while you were typing that reply. Death slaughters his own universe due to Marnie's control over him.

Kinda hard to do much when she's on a corpse pile. Or is this where you finally prove what the title means the consequence?

Originally posted by BloodRain
Kinda hard to do much when she's on a corpse pile. Or is this where you finally prove what the title means the consequence? Nah, Death is easily controlled but who cares as Death is not allowed.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Nah I think we call that a concession :T

Originally posted by BloodRain
I think we call that a concession :T Death isn't in the thread. Quit derailing. It's pathetic.

Its cool cause its already been called, can take my win and leave it at that ey?

Originally posted by BloodRain
Its cool cause its already been called, can take my win and leave it at that ey? You conceded the thread and argued because Death was not involved.

Its a concession when i say im done, or 'nah' in your case. Death would win unopposed, you can't and won't counter, so that's that. Can move on back to the thread.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Its a concession when i say im done, or 'nah' in your case. Death would win unopposed, you can't and won't counter, so that's that. Can move on back to the thread. That is thread derailment. That's the point I've already said Marnie controls him. You want to derail threads into circular arguments.

Lol, wow.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Lol, wow. Yeah, he is a real troublemaker.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Well I do get around and make some noise.

What we know is Marnie controls the dead and Death can be controlled. Pretty logical conclusion here.

That does not matter as people less powerful than Death have controlled him before. All ghosts are immortal and she bound Antonia to her. Awesome feat.


You are angry that all the evidence supports me and nothing supports you.

But it doesn't support anything your saying at all. In fact all you have to go on is that Sam and Dean have bound him and Marnie has not bound anything in his league which means that Magic in supernatural must be stronger then in TB. After all we clearly see Sam and Dean bind him and it takes God Cass to break it. So if you wanna argue from that point of view then not only has Marnie never pulled something like that off but there is nothing to prove she can put out that kind of strength........

I was personally going the route that Death isn't dead but either way there is no proof that she could bind him......

Originally posted by BlackZero30x
But it doesn't support anything your saying at all. In fact all you have to go on is that Sam and Dean have bound him and Marnie has not bound anything in his league which means that Magic in supernatural must be stronger then in TB. After all we clearly see Sam and Dean bind him and it takes God Cass to break it. So if you wanna argue from that point of view then not only has Marnie never pulled something like that off but there is nothing to prove she can put out that kind of strength........

I was personally going the route that Death isn't dead but either way there is no proof that she could bind him...... No, it does not. Prove they operate on a higher plane since salt and simple diagrams can bind them.

She controls the dead. He's death.

Yes, he can be bound and she can bind dead beings due to necromancy. She controls him.

Originally posted by quanchi112
That is thread derailment. That's the point I've already said Marnie controls him. You want to derail threads into circular arguments. Then concession til otherwise, you continuing this with BlackZero says you still think its arguable but will still refuse to answer my question for 'derailment'. So unless you can answer why being the title means he is the state, a state he only governs over.. you see my point.


New strat to add to the others: Eve 'works out' a vampire trapped in hell, comes back later and shuts down all vamps powers. :T

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, it does not. Prove they operate on a higher plane since salt and simple diagrams can bind them.

She controls the dead. He's death.

Yes, he can be bound and she can bind dead beings due to necromancy. She controls him.

Actually it does proves exactly what I say lol My proof is this....


Sam and Dean bound Death and you can't show anyone near his power level that Marnie has controlled......

So whatever they did with that "salt and diagrams" was clearly more powerful. I can't believe that you are perusing this. You don't seem to have a grasp on how levels of power work. You say "Prove they operate on a higher plane since salt and simple diagrams can bind them." trying to talk their binding method down. Point is Death is as I said a primordial being of enormous power that can exist on any plane he wants and can grant life and death as he wishes. If "Salt and Diagrams" were able to bind him then that means those are items of power in magic in the SN universe and not in the TB universe. In fact almost all different shows or books like these have different rules regarding magic and how it works.

Prove to me Necromancy can even affect Death from SN, Prove to me That death is Dead other then the terrible argument of "Hes the concept", Prove to me he can be controlled by anything but the spell used.

Ooh and btw the "Salt and Diagrams" isn't how he was bound anyways

Originally posted by BloodRain
Then concession til otherwise, you continuing this with BlackZero says you still think its arguable but will still refuse to answer my question for 'derailment'. So unless you can answer why being the title means he is the state, a state he only governs over.. you see my point.


New strat to add to the others: Eve 'works out' a vampire trapped in hell, comes back later and shuts down all vamps powers. :T I will get the last word in with this guy.

Marnie controls all the dead characters and they kill each other.

Originally posted by BlackZero30x
Actually it does proves exactly what I say lol My proof is this....


Sam and Dean bound Death and you can't show anyone near his power level that Marnie has controlled......

So whatever they did with that "salt and diagrams" was clearly more powerful. I can't believe that you are perusing this. You don't seem to have a grasp on how levels of power work. You say "Prove they operate on a higher plane since salt and simple diagrams can bind them." trying to talk their binding method down. Point is Death is as I said a primordial being of enormous power that can exist on any plane he wants and can grant life and death as he wishes. If "Salt and Diagrams" were able to bind him then that means those are items of power in magic in the SN universe and not in the TB universe. In fact almost all different shows or books like these have different rules regarding magic and how it works.

Prove to me Necromancy can even affect Death from SN, Prove to me That death is Dead other then the terrible argument of "Hes the concept", Prove to me he can be controlled by anything but the spell used.

Ooh and btw the "Salt and Diagrams" isn't how he was bound anyways If someone weaker than Marnie can control Death then so can Marnie. I was just using that as a reference of weaker characters than Marnie doing so.


If humans can control Death then why can't a more powerful character with power over the dead ?

The answer is clear you just say nuh uh. Common sense dictates Marnie controls him since humans can who really have in power level.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yeah, he is a real troublemaker.

lol, we both know I was talking about you. I thought even you would put more effort in to a deflection like that.

Also, you really should watch Supernatural. Your arguments about Death make no sense at this point, tbh. That's not even me having a go at you; they're actually factually incorrect and using bad logic.

Originally posted by -Pr-
lol, we both know I was talking about you. I thought even you would put more effort in to a deflection like that.

Also, you really should watch Supernatural. Your arguments about Death make no sense at this point, tbh. That's not even me having a go at you; they're actually factually incorrect and using bad logic. I have watched the series up to season 8 on Netflix.

Death can be controlled by far less powerful beings than himself. Fact. Marnie controls the dead through necromancy. Fact.

Just because you like Supernatural doesn't make my argument nonsensical.

Originally posted by quanchi112
If someone weaker than Marnie can control Death then so can Marnie. I was just using that as a reference of weaker characters than Marnie doing so.


If humans can control Death then why can't a more powerful character with power over the dead ?

The answer is clear you just say nuh uh. Common sense dictates Marnie controls him since humans can who really have in power level.

lmao spoken like someone who knows absolutely nothing about SN. Magic in supernatural is powerful and anyone has access to use it if they know where to look. Being the great hunters they are and having the contacts(and training) they do gives them access to all kinds of powerful rituals. For god sakes they could banish, trap, and even kill Angels (killing with the angle blades they have). Thats why Marnie cant do it she lacks the knowladge and contacts of the SN verse. Also because ABC logic doesn't work here. If Sam and Dean are "weaker beings" then Marnie, but were able to use magic to control and defeat and bind things out of Marnies league, it says magic in SN is simply more powerful. Anyways the Death being dead thing is far off anyways and you obviously lack the proof to your claim or you would have presented it by now so just drop that point so we can get into the actual fight at hand here.

Ooh and seriously quit saying "you say nun uh" because its all you. I have every bit of proof I need. Its called Supernatural, its a show that lines up with everything im saying. Everyone here seems to agree except you and I noticed your lack ability to present my requests yet again....

Originally posted by BlackZero30x
lmao spoken like someone who knows absolutely nothing about SN. Magic in supernatural is powerful and anyone has access to use it if they know where to look. Being the great hunters they are and having the contacts(and training) they do gives them access to all kinds of powerful rituals. For god sakes they could banish, trap, and even kill Angels (killing with the angle blades they have). Thats why Marnie cant do it she lacks the knowladge and contacts of the SN verse. Also because ABC logic doesn't work here. If Sam and Dean are "weaker beings" then Marnie, but were able to use magic to control and defeat and bind things out of Marnies league, it says magic in SN is simply more powerful. Anyways the Death being dead thing is far off anyways and you obviously lack the proof to your claim or you would have presented it by now so just drop that point so we can get into the actual fight at hand here.

Ooh and seriously quit saying "you say nun uh" because its all you. I have every bit of proof I need. Its called Supernatural, its a show that lines up with everything im saying. Everyone here seems to agree except you and I noticed your lack ability to present my requests yet again.... Power level doesn't matter is the point only the methods. That's the point. We see Marnie has the methods to control the dead which has nothing to do with power level just like Dean and Sam's methods don't either.


Pretending power levels matter when its clearly the methods in both is both Disingenouous and in bad taste.


No, it doesn't say they are more powerful it just says their ways are effective but then again so are TB methods as well. You just like SN and are looking for any reason despite the fact Death isn't even in this thread. No wonder you don't debate often.

Wrong you are citing the whole only SN rules count while ignoring another fictional universes out of bias. It's old tired and does not pertain to the thread. Give it up. It's something you exceed at.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Power level doesn't matter is the point only the methods. That's the point. We see Marnie has the methods to control the dead which has nothing to do with power level just like Dean and Sam's methods don't either.


Pretending power levels matter when its clearly the methods in both is both Disingenouous and in bad taste.


No, it doesn't say they are more powerful it just says their ways are effective but then again so are TB methods as well. You just like SN and are looking for any reason despite the fact Death isn't even in this thread. No wonder you don't debate often.

Wrong you are citing the whole only SN rules count while ignoring another fictional universes out of bias. It's old tired and does not pertain to the thread. Give it up. It's something you exceed at.

lmao you just admitted it yourself. Its the method. Marnie lacks the method to control Death im glad your finally understand. Anyways you are the one that started "talking down" magic in supernatural...insinuating it was weak. Saying things like "If Sam and Dean can do it who are much weaker then Marnie...." ect ect. If thats case Dean and Sam appear to have bound someone of much more power then Marnie has. Give me an example of Marnies Magic working on a being of Death's level.

I don't debate often because I don't enjoy debating with people that make claims and can't provide any proof yet still continue the argument. Something you seem to exceed at.

You are right about one thing though, I do really enjoy SN but what your missing is I also enjoy TB. Im arguing for the side I know wins but we haven't even gotten to that yet because your stuck on this one thing. Your one to talk about backing the side you like. You have talked down the SN verse and you made another thread about TB verse twilight. All while wearing your Russel sig. Im sure people really have to wonder who you think wins right from the jump. When I came into this thread I simply mentioned you being wrong about Death being dead. I have no problem arguing without using death in the actual fight....but until you move on from this we can't even do that. It's simple your not right and you lost the argument about Marnie controlling Death. Now lets move on to the fight at hand because you and your lack of proof is concession enough.

Anyways yea I was debating the rules that govern Death FROM SUPERNATURAL. You don't even know if necromancy works on him as it has never been used on him for one and two he's not dead.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I will get the last word in with this guy.

Marnie controls all the dead characters and they kill each other.
You've yet to say to me nor BZ why Death is a dead character. Why being the personification makes him the physical state. How can a being that is either alive or is outside life/death be one of the deceased? How can something thats has existed before life/death be dead? Saying 'its because he's death' is a baseless, unsupported and claim.

I highly (and hoping for your sake) doubt that you'll say that that a human witch like Marnie with her necromancy could control DC/Marvel Death?



Actually do to with the thread:
"New strat to add to the others: Eve 'works out' a vampire trapped in hell, comes back later and shuts down all vamps powers. :T"

Originally posted by BlackZero30x
lmao you just admitted it yourself. Its the method. Marnie lacks the method to control Death im glad your finally understand. Anyways you are the one that started "talking down" magic in supernatural...insinuating it was weak. Saying things like "If Sam and Dean can do it who are much weaker then Marnie...." ect ect. If thats case Dean and Sam appear to have bound someone of much more power then Marnie has. Give me an example of Marnies Magic working on a being of Death's level.

I don't debate often because I don't enjoy debating with people that make claims and can't provide any proof yet still continue the argument. Something you seem to exceed at.

You are right about one thing though, I do really enjoy SN but what your missing is I also enjoy TB. Im arguing for the side I know wins but we haven't even gotten to that yet because your stuck on this one thing. Your one to talk about backing the side you like. You have talked down the SN verse and you made another thread about TB verse twilight. All while wearing your Russel sig. Im sure people really have to wonder who you think wins right from the jump. When I came into this thread I simply mentioned you being wrong about Death being dead. I have no problem arguing without using death in the actual fight....but until you move on from this we can't even do that. It's simple your not right and you lost the argument about Marnie controlling Death. Now lets move on to the fight at hand because you and your lack of proof is concession enough.

Anyways yea I was debating the rules that govern Death FROM SUPERNATURAL. You don't even know if necromancy works on him as it has never been used on him for one and two he's not dead. Power level doesn't matter just proven methods work. Both have proven methods so the evidence favors me.

Death isn't even in the thread. You seem consumed on arguing it anyways. Trolling.

Necromancy works. Death is dead. Get over it.

Originally posted by BloodRain
You've yet to say to me nor BZ why Death is a dead character. Why being the personification makes him the physical state. How can a being that is either alive or is outside life/death be one of the deceased? How can something thats has existed before life/death be dead? Saying 'its because he's death' is a baseless, unsupported and claim.

I highly (and hoping for your sake) doubt that you'll say that that a human witch like Marnie with her necromancy could control DC/Marvel Death?



Actually do to with the thread:
"New strat to add to the others: Eve 'works out' a vampire trapped in hell, comes back later and shuts down all vamps powers. :T" the reason I believe Marnie can control them is characters from the SN show have.

Eve is controlled by Marnie.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I have watched the series up to season 8 on Netflix.

Death can be controlled by far less powerful beings than himself. Fact. Marnie controls the dead through necromancy. Fact.

Just because you like Supernatural doesn't make my argument nonsensical.

No, your argument being nonsensical makes it so. You cant just make shit up and ignore facts when it suits you.

Lol @ accusing me of bias though, you black pot you.

But please, tell me how death would be controlled.

Originally posted by -Pr-
No, your argument being nonsensical makes it so. You cant just make shit up and ignore facts when it suits you.

Lol @ accusing me of bias though, you black pot you.

But please, tell me how death would be controlled. No, it does a d is backed by the facts I laid down.

Death has been controlled. Your nuh uh responses are typical.

Watch the show we see him easily controlled. Marnie can control the dead. 1+1=2.

Well, supposedly you can kill Death with his own scythe (the rusty thing Dean first approached him with).

Originally posted by quanchi112
Power level doesn't matter just proven methods work. Both have proven methods so the evidence favors me.

Death isn't even in the thread. You seem consumed on arguing it anyways. Trolling.

Necromancy works. Death is dead. Get over it.

Im gonna simply break this down....

1) ONE of them have a proven method of controlling Death from SN.....

2) I don't care if he is or he isn't. I came into this thread correcting you when you said he was Dead. You chose to argue it with me yet im consumed with arguing it? lmao. Its been what a week that you have been basing things on your own say so and calling it proof and not given me my requests?...yet im trolling?! lmao

3) Show me Necromancy works on Death and prove to me he is dead.

Originally posted by Astner
Well, supposedly you can kill Death with his own scythe (the rusty thing Dean first approached him with).

Exactly. If Death were dead I don't see it killing him. They clearly say in the show that it can even kill its owner......

Originally posted by Astner
Well, supposedly you can kill Death with his own scythe (the rusty thing Dean first approached him with). Oh I forgot about that. I remember he was eating pasta like some idiot. Hahahahahaha, vamp speed can beat him with his own scythe.

Originally posted by BlackZero30x
Exactly. If Death were dead I don't see it killing him. They clearly say in the show that it can even kill its owner...... Just like zombies are dead but can be killed, ghosts can be killed, vamps, etc.


Horrible logic to the nth power.

Originally posted by BlackZero30x
Im gonna simply break this down....

1) ONE of them have a proven method of controlling Death from SN.....

2) I don't care if he is or he isn't. I came into this thread correcting you when you said he was Dead. You chose to argue it with me yet im consumed with arguing it? lmao. Its been what a week that you have been basing things on your own say so and calling it proof and not given me my requests?...yet im trolling?! lmao

3) Show me Necromancy works on Death and prove to me he is dead. Yes, so we know he can be controlled. Fact.

I know you don't care about anything other than yourself.


Necromancy works on the dead. Point proven.

Originally posted by quanchi112
the reason I believe Marnie can control them is characters from the SN show have.

Eve is controlled by Marnie.Death cannot be 'controlled', he gets 'bound'.

Lucifer, a being so far above Marnie its not worth thinking about, bound Death to him with the "Death binding ritual". And what happened when Death was told to destroy Chicago with the storm? He casually turned his storm off when Dean asked.

So either prove, with canon evidence, that Death can be controlled with necromancy or prove that her necromancy works just like the binding ritual.



Eve wasn't dead now I think you're just trolling.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Death cannot be 'controlled', he gets 'bound'.

Lucifer, a being so far above Marnie its not worth thinking about, bound Death to him with the "Death binding ritual". And what happened when Death was told to destroy Chicago with the storm? He casually turned his storm off when Dean asked.

So either prove, with canon evidence, that Death can be controlled with necromancy or prove that her necromancy works just like the binding ritual.



Eve wasn't dead now I think you're just trolling. Bound, controlled, semantics.


Marnie uses rituals and spells to do these things just like Dean, etc.


We see he can be controlled. Destroy her body. Same old same old.

Dean sure killed her.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Bound, controlled, semantics.

Marnie uses rituals and spells to do these things just like Dean, etc.


We see he can be controlled. Destroy her body. Same old same old.

Dean sure killed her.
Controlled = character does her bidding

Bound = character still has control

Right, because she's just going to suddenly know the spell just like that? I forgot TB had omniscient beings..

So either prove, with canon evidence, that Death can be controlled with necromancy or prove that her necromancy works just like the binding ritual. Prove something for once, its not that hard.




Do you hear yourself? "Dean killed her so she must have been dead before he killed her"

Originally posted by BloodRain
Controlled = character does her bidding

Bound = character still has control

Right, because she's just going to suddenly know the spell just like that? I forgot TB had omniscient beings..

So either prove, with canon evidence, that Death can be controlled with necromancy or prove that her necromancy works just like the binding ritual. Prove something for once, its not that hard.




Do you hear yourself? "Dean killed her so she must have been dead before he killed her" We have seen her bind a spirit under her control.


That is one way we know of and since it can happen we know her magic works the same.

Evidence leans towards me not yourself.


I said she is dead now. She is. She can be killed. Marnie kills her.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, so we know he can be controlled. Fact.

I know you don't care about anything other than yourself.


Necromancy works on the dead. Point proven.

Yes we do...by the ritual he was bound with. No other method has been shown to work. Fact.....and your conclusion that one method works so any works is so entirely flawed. Thats like saying we have seen Sam and Dean trap a demon with a Devils trap and vampires from TB have been trapped with silver......they must be interchangeable. Im sure you can see how retarded that is...

"I know you don't care about anything other then yourself" How would you know that? You know me IRL? lmao butt hurt?!

Yeah I can agree Necromancy works on the dead. but you don't need to prove that as im sure everyone knows that. You just have to prove Death is dead....which you can not because he's not.....If he was you would have provided me with the proof I have been asking for about a week.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Just like zombies are dead but can be killed, ghosts can be killed, vamps, etc.


Horrible logic to the nth power.



In supernatural Zombies the undead. Beings who have died but have been brought back to life therefore killed. Ghosts can not be killed only forced to move on. Vampires are a bit on clear in SN as you only need to drink a vamps blood to turn. Its more like being turned into a monster then being killed. For example the episode where vampires were drugging people with their blood to turn them.

My logic is sound with in the realm of what I was discussing....the SN universe.

Originally posted by BlackZero30x


In supernatural Zombies the undead. Beings who have died but have been brought back to life therefore killed. Ghosts can not be killed only forced to move on. Vampires are a bit on clear in SN as you only need to drink a vamps blood to turn. Its more like being turned into a monster then being killed. For example the episode where vampires were drugging people with their blood to turn them.

My logic is sound with in the realm of what I was discussing....the SN universe. Just because you're dead that doesn't mean you cannot be killed. Call it what you want they are destroyed in that state.


This is a combination of both universes. Marnie controls the dead. Deal with it or a vamp stabs him with his own scythe.

Take your pick.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Just because you're dead that doesn't mean you cannot be killed. Call it what you want they are destroyed in that state.


This is a combination of both universes. Marnie controls the dead. Deal with it or a vamp stabs him with his own scythe.

Take your pick.

Take it how you will but it is how I explained it.

Yes this is the combination of both but it doesn't change the rules regarding each universe. So what I said certainly does apply to the SN universe. SN vamps only die through beheading TB vamps have normal vampire weakness...their traits do not merge.

ok I will say Death isn't dead as you have no evidence to prove he is. Now I have some questions about the scythe.......

....Where would said Vampire get Deaths Scythe and how would they even know it existed and that it could kill Death? Sam and Dean are a product of design. They live in the SN universe so its knowledge that through their contacts they could acquire......

Originally posted by BlackZero30x
Take it how you will but it is how I explained it.

Yes this is the combination of both but it doesn't change the rules regarding each universe. So what I said certainly does apply to the SN universe. SN vamps only die through beheading TB vamps have normal vampire weakness...their traits do not merge.

ok I will say Death isn't dead as you have no evidence to prove he is. Now I have some questions about the scythe.......

....Where would said Vampire get Deaths Scythe and how would they even know it existed and that it could kill Death? Sam and Dean are a product of design. They live in the SN universe so its knowledge that through their contacts they could acquire...... No, you have excuses. Undead beings can be killed. Point proven.



But the fact Death can be controlled does carry over as do Marnie's powers.

Logical conclusion: she uses him.

Glamouring Sam and Dean for intel.

A vamp destroys Death.

Lucky for you he's safe from TB bullies.

Originally posted by quanchi112
We have seen her bind a spirit under her control.
That is one way we know of and since it can happen we know her magic works the same.
Evidence leans towards me not yourself.
I said she is the dead now. She is. She can be killed. Marnie kills her. First Death is among the undead, now he's a spirit? And you're citing a moment when she binds a spirit inside of herself.. Also "Bound = character still has control" Even the option you want will fail.

Apples and oranges Unless you believe that Van Helsing can kill a TB vamp with a cross? It takes a special ritual, special words and special items. Saying "All spells work exactly the same" is a massive dodge.

So prove that necromancy works just like the specific binding ritual and will have the same effect, when her spell only binds spirits that are inside her or the undead.. two things Death is not. And do so with canon evidence, not your home spun theories.



A character can be killed, so any character can kill them. Nice logic.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, you have excuses. Undead beings can be killed. Point proven.



But the fact Death can be controlled does carry over as do Marnie's powers.

Logical conclusion: she uses him.

Glamouring Sam and Dean for intel.

A vamp destroys Death.

Lucky for you he's safe from TB bullies.

lmao Quan.

Yup by a singular ritual and Marnie aint got shit on that. so prove it or drop it because your only giving your opinion until you can prove her powers work on Death.

Assuming Sam and Dean could be glamored I don't see how it helps much other then giving them the ritual to bind Death. They could tell them about the scythe but when the boys got it, it was because Crowley had access to it. So a vampire has the ritual to bind Death. One of two things happen.

1) They are killed by Cass during or of after the glamor...before they could get all the ingredient to complete the ritual

2) The Vampire succeeds and Death just disobeys int the same way he disobeyed Lucifer.....a being that would snap his fingers and end TB.

They could learn angle Warding but Metatron can simple erase it. And this is all IF they could Glamor them.

It would be easier for SN to get knowledge on TB because a thought form takes on not only the look of someone but the memories as well. They would become a perfect replica and would know everything that person knew.

anyways Cass destroys everyone from TB all by himself. No one in TB knows how to kill him nor could they.

Just realized something about this topic, that TB's necromancy is highly limited in its own verse.


1. Marnie could only control the undead in her close proximity.
The only method Marnie has to control all undead within 20 miles is the Incantation of the Sun spell, which requires a whole coven of witches and constant chanting throughout. This spell only causes the undead to walk into the sunlight. Thats the only ranged control spell in TB.

"Erratus Mihi Exactum, Compre Gavo, Omnes Vosi Nevo Se Deductev Mihi, Hinc Porro, Egos Honos Tibi Domine!"

This 10 second incantation can be done solo, though must be done when the target is within 10ft.


2. TB Necromancy can only control those with actual dead bodies.
This only occurred to me when she could only use her ability to control vampires but not ghosts. Its just as Eric says when meeting the coven, "Yall looking for a dead body?" This is further proven when characters have to use ghost specific spells, and there are only two spells used to control these undead spirits;

The first spell is used to summon up many ghosts that are in the area, however there is no hold or control over them. The second spell is used to bind a spirit to the user, and to note the spirit must already be inside. Thats all.





TL;DR- Marnie's controlling spell has a small range, and without having a body that has deceases her necromancy control won't work on them.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, I disagree. Salt doesn't take them out. There are any ways to defeat SN ghosts unlike TB but who cares as it isn't up for debate here. There arent actually: 1) Hit with Salt or Iron, it disperses them taking a short moment to come back. 2) Destroying the remains. Impossible here. 3) A much stronger being, again impossible here.

TB ghosts have possession and TK. SN ghosts have that, several abilities and superhuman stats. Yeah, TB ghosts would really be a threat.. oh, and replying means you care, remember? Don't reply and its dropped.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You are greatly exaggerating the shitty hunters. They aren't anything special. We have seen them beaten time and time again due to death, etc. they are the stars hence they always comes back.

Non physical beings aren't in the thread so no Hell hounds. This won't all be taking place in 10 minutes both sides will have time to regroup, etc. Wait, so humans can be killed? Shocking. How about we look at the facts here? As a human, shifters and panthers are nothing but people with a slightly better sense of smell. A strong Were is an athletic level human, but a good hunter is also this, maybe not as physically strong but with better training and waponry. No as a werewolf, werepanther, croc or bull they pose a threat but are still just animals which would fall to a shotgun.

The fly tactic it literally the best the Shifter classes hsve to offer here, and if someone sees that happen once, it wont happen again. That and only two people have shown the ability to become flys.

O.o Urm, Hellhounds are physical beings.. Sam even grabbed one. Remember the salt+iron bomb Jo made to kill a few?

Originally posted by quanchi112
TB intel is going to happen quickly here as they can glamour or read minds and speak to each other. Makers can also sense their progeny. TB: Find a human > abduct to disclosed are > glamour some info on the 40 creatures > inform a Fae > telepathically inform all Fae > inform as many vamps as possible > get resources and draw Devil Traps > lure demons into traps > stop said demon or others from breaking it > deal with the trapped demon..

Yeah, that isnt quick my any means. Certainly longer than; SN: Abduct anyone to hell > torture (On earth it would take less than a min) > telepathically inform all Angles > execute plan.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, it cannot. We see demons struggle against far less formidable beings than TB supernaturals. It would take a single touch for an Angel to teleport in and take any vampire to hell. It would take a Seraph a single click to do the same. Hax. All about the hax.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Dean and Sam know. Glamouring. Game over. Oh yeah, I forgot that every single TB character will automatically know which two out of the thousands have the exact info they need Thats the thing, they have absolutely no way of knowing who to target to get this info. What about Glamouring someone "Human, who has the information we seek"? Nope. As said barely anyone knows the Winchesters have gone up High-Demons, and less to none know about the Angles. Assuming they get lucky and find the right person, all they'll get is "Sam and Dean Winchester know all about those Demons and Angels" If you don't see the poblem its that all they have is a name..
And on that, what do you think would happen if Dean or Sam get taken? You'd automatically have an Angel on their tail, teleporting in to smite the vap mid Glamour. Keep in mind that these two are going to either be valued as friends/acquaintances or valued for all the secrets they hold. The SN know they're valued pieces on the board and won't sit back and let a vamp fling one over their solder and run off.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No non physical beings are included here. They can't all do so easily but all demons anddead types can be controlled by Marnie. Give me an example of demons who cannot be controlled due to being dead by Marnie who can replicate this feat ?Couldnt help but notice you saying that this tactic would still work for those who can do this. Lol the few Demons there were only for fire and removing their hearts. The Archangels, Seraphs, Angels, Reapers, Pestilence, some Witches and Pagen gods can still infect them with Hep D, silver in their blood, set them on fire or take away their hearts with gestures.

But to answer the rest that has nothing to do with this atm;
1. The only ones in that list 'you' would consider controllable are the Reapers and Demons. As said in the above post neither use dead bodies so no, she wont control them.
2. Also as said above, none of them would even be within range.
3. These level of beings can only be controlled by powerful spells and they've been proven to resist control by things not at the right level.

So assuming her spell is strong enough (the feats don't suggest), assuming they're within range (they wont be), and assuming her power works on them (it wont) then we're left with the fact that it still leaves 5 'groups' that can still do this and much easier than the 2 groups you think can be controlled.

Originally posted by quanchi112 What makes you feel physical strength cannot harm an upper ranking angel or demon in a human body ? Oh it can. Its just a vampire is physically weaker than either. Like I said earlier, strong Monsters like a werewolf, rugaru or wendigo can rip heads off, shove an arm through a persons chest and throw people across the room. Three of the four only strengths to TBs name with the forth being cleared by mid-demon strength of easily lifting up a 2 ton car. Those monsters are around a the strength of mid-demons, as are all vampires from everything we've seen. As we know if a being in this class challenge an angel or high-demon they're going to be pinned to the ground by their throats in an instant.

Originally posted by quanchi112
That's just the heroes always winning type nonsense. We see more or less they prevail but they don't really pose a threat to vamps, Mary Anne, or Fae.

When has Glamour been resisted ? If you can't name a time a human has resisted it then it works against non supernatural types. Tara and the coven were killing vamps in the mist, who were the antagonists. Several anti-vamps have done so. That one guy silvered Eric. And currently tons of vamps are being captured by humans. Heroes always winning, or humans having a chance?

Resisting something more powerful than Glamour via the willpower Eric mentioned about Glamour. Unless something says that a stronger vamp has superior mind control, its happening.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I want the characters as they normally appear. That covers Demon!Sam, didn't verdict the Rabbits Foot though. So no Antonia for Marnie then, just like with Sam?

Originally posted by BloodRain
First Death is among the undead, now he's a spirit? And you're citing a moment when she binds a spirit inside of herself.. Also "Bound = character still has control" Even the option you want will fail.

Apples and oranges Unless you believe that Van Helsing can kill a TB vamp with a cross? It takes a special ritual, special words and special items. Saying "All spells work exactly the same" is a massive dodge.

So prove that necromancy works just like the specific binding ritual and will have the same effect, when her spell only binds spirits that are inside her or the undead.. two things Death is not. And do so with canon evidence, not your home spun theories.



A character can be killed, so any character can kill them. Nice logic. She has bound both a spirit and controlled.

When did I say all spells work exactly the same ?

Her spells show she can control the dead such as Eric Northman.

That's what happens to Death.


The scythe kills death used by any TB vampire. Too fast.

Originally posted by BlackZero30x
lmao Quan.

Yup by a singular ritual and Marnie aint got shit on that. so prove it or drop it because your only giving your opinion until you can prove her powers work on Death.

Assuming Sam and Dean could be glamored I don't see how it helps much other then giving them the ritual to bind Death. They could tell them about the scythe but when the boys got it, it was because Crowley had access to it. So a vampire has the ritual to bind Death. One of two things happen.

1) They are killed by Cass during or of after the glamor...before they could get all the ingredient to complete the ritual

2) The Vampire succeeds and Death just disobeys int the same way he disobeyed Lucifer.....a being that would snap his fingers and end TB.

They could learn angle Warding but Metatron can simple erase it. And this is all IF they could Glamor them.

It would be easier for SN to get knowledge on TB because a thought form takes on not only the look of someone but the memories as well. They would become a perfect replica and would know everything that person knew.

anyways Cass destroys everyone from TB all by himself. No one in TB knows how to kill him nor could they. I already have proven it. Death can be controlled, Marnie can control the dead. 1+1=2.

1) what makes you so sure cass can kill them.

2) not at all. Lucifer's human body gets destroyed and bye bye.

How can cass destroy them all ?