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Who wins?
No prep...
No B.F.R..






The Avengers


Cap.America
Blue Marvel
Quasar
Thor
Silver Surfer
Monica Rambuea
Hulk
Iron Man

Vs

The JLA


Batman
Superman
G.L Hal
Wonder Womam
Martain manhunter
Flash (B.A)
Aquaman
Cyborg

JLA.

Avengers.

Avengers. It's close, IMO.

Avengers are too stacked, tbh.

That is one stacked Avengers roster. They roll.

JLA would have better coordination due to MM linking everyone's minds, he could also screw with the Avengers heads.

JLA cleans house.

John's telepathy really is their only shot. In a straight up fight, the Justice League should get steamrolled.

I thought about J'onn's tp as well. That's really their ONLY possible win here. I have to believe that some combo of telepathy-immune characters could occupy J'onn though, and in the heat of a battle where the JLA is overmatched, J'onn isn't pulling any team-busting tp feats.

Originally posted by Supermex
Who wins?
No prep...
No B.F.R..






The Avengers


Cap.America
Blue Marvel
Quasar
Thor
Silver Surfer
Monica Rambuea
Hulk
Iron Man

Vs

The JLA


Batman
Superman
G.L Hal
Wonder Womam
Martain manhunter
Flash (B.A)
Aquaman
Cyborg

Captain America beats Batman.

Blue Marvel beats Superman.

Quasar beats Hal.

Thor destroys Wonder Woman.

Surfer rapes Martian Manhunter.

Barry defeats Monica.

Hulk beats Aquaman.

Iron Man takes the win over Cyborg.


Leaves Barry vs nearly the entire Avengers lineup. He can almost solo the team, but imo Surfer can match or better his speed.

Team Avengers wins.

Originally posted by cdtm
Captain America beats Batman.

Blue Marvel beats Superman.

Quasar beats Hal.

Thor destroys Wonder Woman.

Surfer rapes Martian Manhunter.

Barry defeats Monica.

Hulk beats Aquaman.

Iron Man takes the win over Cyborg.


Leaves Barry vs nearly the entire Avengers lineup. He can almost solo the team, but imo Surfer can match or better his speed.

Team Avengers wins.

While I agree with your conclusion, your methods are flawed imo. These are far from the only permutations that the matchups could shake out as, so a more accurate gauge is to look at the totality of the team instead of guessing at matchups.

Second, your focus on those that frankly don't matter (IM/Cyborg, Batman/Cap, Hulk/Aquaman) ignores the fact that the most powerful in the fight will determine its outcome.

Originally posted by Digi
I thought about J'onn's tp as well. That's really their ONLY possible win here. I have to believe that some combo of telepathy-immune characters could occupy J'onn though, and in the heat of a battle where the JLA is overmatched, J'onn isn't pulling any team-busting tp feats.

Johns Hal could probably solo both teams, looking at how ridiculously over the top Hal and Sinestro were written in the GL comics.

I don't think the Surfer's ever been in the Avengers, has he?

Originally posted by cdtm
Captain America beats Batman.

Blue Marvel beats Superman.

Quasar beats Hal.

Thor destroys Wonder Woman.

Surfer rapes Martian Manhunter.

Barry defeats Monica.

Hulk beats Aquaman.

Iron Man takes the win over Cyborg.


Leaves Barry vs nearly the entire Avengers lineup. He can almost solo the team, but imo Surfer can match or better his speed.

Team Avengers wins.


lol.. If you're going to turn this into a tag team 1 on 1 fight then.

-Superman stomps BM.
-Hal definitely beats Quasar
-MM controls Hulks anger nullifying him and keeping him Bruce Banner, or uses him on his own team.
-Wonder Woman who is nearly invulnerable to Magic stalemates Thor
-Flash steals SS's speed and wins that fight.
-Aquaman beats Monica
-Cyborg hacks Iron Man's suit.
-Batman vs Cap, great fight.. Cap might take it.

Flash is another factor all together. Flash at his best plus John's Hal is murder. The leagues abilities compliment their teammates more.

The Avengers clearly win this. They are simply more powerful.

Originally posted by cdtm
Johns Hal could probably solo both teams, looking at how ridiculously over the top Hal and Sinestro were written in the GL comics.

Lol. Like the others don't have high-end feats.

Originally posted by Digi
Lol. Like the others don't have high-end feats.


Exactly.

Originally posted by cdtm
Blue Marvel beats Superman.

Quasar beats Hal.

Barry defeats Monica.

I disagree with those.

Originally posted by Digi
Lol. Like the others don't have high-end feats.

There's high end feats, and there's Hal and Sinestro single handedly hurting/defeating characters entire groups of GL's, amped GL's like White Lantern Kyle (Who hasn't exactly become a power player since his evolution.) or Sodam Yat, or The Guardians couldn't do anything against.

John's had Hal summon Nekron and order him around, for crying out loud. Hell, back in the Infinite Crisis story, Hal somehow managed to break free from Alpha Lantern restraints with a completely depowered ring. And Sin, he gets to take out a character that defeats Kyle, Ganthet, Stewart, and two other GL's, and does it easily, And worse, he actually hurts Volthoom, the universal reality warper that laughed off White Lantern Kyle Rayners attacks.


John's wrote some great stuff, but lets be honest, he wasn't even trying to pretend he wasn't a Hal and Sinestro fanboy.

Originally posted by cdtm
There's high end feats, and there's Hal and Sinestro single handedly hurting/defeating characters entire groups of GL's, or even amped GL's like White Lantern Kyle or Sodam Yat, couldn't do anything against.

John's had Hal summon Nekron and order him around, for crying out loud. Hell, back in the Infinite Crisis story, Hal somehow managed to break free from Alpha Lantern restraints with a completely depowered ring.

John's wrote some great stuff, but lets be honest, he wasn't even trying to pretend he wasn't a Hal and Sinestro fanboy.

Fodder Green Lantern is fodder.

Nekron was f*cking awesome as a will power feat but not sure how it translates to a battle. The Krona Buster is far more relevant imho.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Fodder Green Lantern is fodder.

Nekron was f*cking awesome as a will power feat but not sure how it translates to a battle. The Krona Buster is far more relevant imho.

The Black Lantern arc established the undead bodies weren't even the real characters, though. And even if they were, how does being a black lantern = being able to even engage in a battle of wills, let alone win one against Nekron?

And Kyle Rayner, Guy Gardner, and John Stewart are cannon fodder though?

Sodam Yat and White Lantern GL? For their "amps", did they get to do much of anything that was half as impressive as the stuff Hal and Sin kept busting out?

Originally posted by cdtm
The Black Lantern arc established the undead bodies weren't even the real characters, though. And even if they were, how does being a black lantern = being able to even engage in a battle of wills, let alone win one against Nekron?

And Kyle Rayner, Guy Gardner, and John Stewart are cannon fodder though?

Sodam Yat and White Lantern GL? For their "amps", did they get to do much of anything that was half as impressive as the stuff Hal and Sin kept busting out?

Didn't see the edit. I'm not sure, Hal was able to summon him and control him, really impressive will power feat but you can't mention it in a vs. thread unless it's a contest of wills.

I'll re-read the issue. I'm not going to pretend that Johns doesn't think Hal and Sinestro > The entire Green Lantern Corps though.

Yea, Sodam Yat is a f*cking worthless c*nt. Thor or Superman would beat his face in at this point I swear. We'll see how Kyle's new amp plays out. I hope it doesn't last long because with a lot of appearances the writers are going to job him for someone of that power level sooner or later.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I disagree with those.


Blue Marvel and Supes can go either way.

Originally posted by carver9
Blue Marvel and Supes can go either way.

Depends on your view of Sentry, I guess.

Personally, I think he's >>> Superman, Thor, or Hulk, considering some of the stuff he's pulled (Obviously, Molecule Man, but even his origin story is beyond them, considering the sheer power he was making crap their collective tights...)

I'd go with Superman over BM just based on a lack of appearences

That said Quasar being a silver bullet vs Supes is what makes me give it to the Avengers.

Originally posted by cdtm
There's high end feats, and there's Hal and Sinestro single handedly hurting/defeating characters entire groups of GL's, amped GL's like White Lantern Kyle (Who hasn't exactly become a power player since his evolution.) or Sodam Yat, or The Guardians couldn't do anything against. Atrocitus hurt Volthoom too. Just didn't matter. Neither did Hal's or Sinestro's attacks. Aside from Sinestrollax's heart-ripping and BL Hal's depowering, the only assault that looked like it actually severely staggered Volthoom was Guy Gardner's planned assault that combined the various Corps' light, filtered by Mogo. Originally posted by cdtm
John's had Hal summon Nekron and order him around, for crying out loud. Hell, back in the Infinite Crisis story, Hal somehow managed to break free from Alpha Lantern restraints with a completely depowered ring. And Sin, he gets to take out a character that defeats Kyle, Ganthet, Stewart, and two other GL's, and does it easily, And worse, he actually hurts Volthoom, the universal reality warper that laughed off White Lantern Kyle Rayners attacks.

John's wrote some great stuff, but lets be honest, he wasn't even trying to pretend he wasn't a Hal and Sinestro fanboy. There's a lot of context missing here. In any case, Digi's response is correct. Everyone has their high feats.

Originally posted by ODG
Everyone has their high feats.

True, but I still think Johns goes overboard on Hal/Sin...

But really, I guess I'm bitter about how Kyle's been written.

He's a white lantern, and he's done NOTHING important, and got punked by Volthoom harder then anyone. The white lantern came off looking weaker then the other lanterns, even though it's supposed to comprise all of them into some sort of super lantern..

Originally posted by cdtm
True, but I still think Johns goes overboard on Hal/Sin...

But really, I guess I'm bitter about how Kyle's been written.

He's a white lantern, and he's done NOTHING important, and got punked by Volthoom harder then anyone. The white lantern came off looking weaker then the other lanterns, even though it's supposed to comprise all of them into some sort of super lantern.. Same sh1t, different comic.

This wasn't WL Kyle's story. We'll see what he can do eventually. Even at this point, he's only just recently gotten a hold of controlling his various spectrum powers properly, let alone effectively.

The Avengers win, too stacked...Surfer in the lineup skews this...

Originally posted by cdtm
True, but I still think Johns goes overboard on Hal/Sin...

But really, I guess I'm bitter about how Kyle's been written.

He's a white lantern, and he's done NOTHING important, and got punked by Volthoom harder then anyone. The white lantern came off looking weaker then the other lanterns, even though it's supposed to comprise all of them into some sort of super lantern..

It's just, if we want to go full-on fan boner, my point is still entirely valid. You think this is the best of the best feats? Ok, fine. I don't even want to argue something so subjective. Point is, you're still ignoring that half a dozen others in this fight have nigh-abstract level high-end feats.

Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
The Avengers win, too stacked...Surfer in the lineup skews this...
Indeed!

Originally posted by cdtm
Captain America beats Batman.

Blue Marvel beats Superman.

Quasar beats Hal.

Thor destroys Wonder Woman.

Surfer rapes Martian Manhunter.

Barry defeats Monica.

Hulk beats Aquaman.

Iron Man takes the win over Cyborg.


Leaves Barry vs nearly the entire Avengers lineup. He can almost solo the team, but imo Surfer can match or better his speed.

Team Avengers wins.
Laughable. Avengers wins in a great fight.

Originally posted by cdtm
Depends on your view of Sentry, I guess.

Personally, I think he's >>> Superman, Thor, or Hulk, considering some of the stuff he's pulled (Obviously, Molecule Man, but even his origin story is beyond them, considering the sheer power he was making crap their collective tights...) Sentry is on another level.

Originally posted by Digi
It's just, if we want to go full-on fan boner, my point is still entirely valid. You think this is the best of the best feats? Ok, fine. I don't even want to argue something so subjective. Point is, you're still ignoring that half a dozen others in this fight have nigh-abstract level high-end feats.

I did say Quasar beats Hal, before I entered rant mode.

But if we're talking feats seriously: What do they have on the Krona buster, while Krona was amped by all the entites?

Even Quasar fighting a Monitor is reasonable by comparison... This is like is Richard Rider simply punched out Thanos and cancerverse Mar-vell, instead of the better ending we got.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
you can't mention it in a vs. thread unless it's a contest of wills.


.... even when his attacks come from his ring which is EMPOWERED by his willpower?

Originally posted by cdtm
I did say Quasar beats Hal, before I entered rant mode.

But if we're talking feats seriously: What do they have on the Krona buster, while Krona was amped by all the entites?

Even Quasar fighting a Monitor is reasonable by comparison... This is like is Richard Rider simply punched out Thanos and cancerverse Mar-vell, instead of the better ending we got.

Quasar has tanked Galactus. Thor tore a hole in a Celestial. Thor has the fight against Mercy, a no-bones-about-it abstract being that he essentially double KO'd and reduced to nothing. Surfer has the Crunch feat against Aegis/Tenebrous, or the one where multiple planets were being destroyed just from the shockwaves of his battles, not even direct attacks. Superman has...help me out Superman fans. Hulk has...help me out Hulk fans. But I know they both have that level of absurdity as well.

If you pick one feat and decide not to take the irrational ones from the others, of course he seems like the best. Maybe it is in fact the best feat of any of them. It's really, REALLY hard to say at such levels. But it's irresponsible to act like it's the only feat worth determining the fight on.