Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

All of Neo abilities are available here. Who wins?

This is Superman from the latest movie.

Neo dies almost instantly, Supes and Hancock fight it out for several hours, thousands die in the process, lol. Then supes breaks his neck.

Superman is leagues above Hancock. Hancock is as good as he can get. While Superman can use the sun along with every ability he has that Hancock doesn't. Neo can keep up with Hancock at best. Supes clears them both.

Superman gets a good tight grip on Hancocks ankle and then uses him as a blunt object to beat Neo to death.

Neo has true super speed whereas Superman so far has only shown mobile speed. Superman will have trouble tagging him. Plus if Neo gets ALL his powers then he's pretty much impossible to kill, not to mention leagues better in fighting ability. Not saying Neo can beat Superman, but Neo alone would be trouble for him, giving him Hancock as a partner means Superman gets his ass beat.

when are people gonna figure out that giving Neo full access to the powers he has in the Matrix makes him spite against pretty much any other character.


mhmm



has there ever been a Dr. Manhattan vs Neo thread?


edit: found it. I agree with what was said in that thread, Neo would lose that one.

Just keep Neo from using instant one kill moves.

Make it "Neo vs Smiths and/or Neo vs Oracle Smith" exclusive.

Neo's too fast to be hit, and he hits too hard to survive. Team Hancock and Superman up and pit them against Neo.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Neo's too fast to be hit, and he hits too hard to survive. Team Hancock and Superman up and pit them against Neo.

That sounds wrong.. As if he hits so hard he can't be allowed to survive.

A dangling participle. Now I can't edit to hide my mistake, you JERK.

Originally posted by marwash22
when are people gonna figure out that giving Neo full access to the powers he has in the Matrix makes him spite against pretty much any other character.


Haven't seen every Matrix movie all the way through, but I still find it interesting that you say that. The first thing that immediately came to mind for me was SS4 Gogeta. Just something I felt like throwing out there. I don't really seek to debate on it right now though. This would be the wrong place for that anyways.

None of these movie superhumans would stand a chance against the DBZ people. Their comic selves would kick a lot of DBZ ass, but I've never seen anything from movie Superman, Neo, Hancock, Marvel etc. that would plausibly make a dent in any of the DBZ crowd.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
None of these movie superhumans would stand a chance against the DBZ people. Their comic selves would kick a lot of DBZ ass, but I've never seen anything from movie Superman, Neo, Hancock, Marvel etc. that would plausibly make a dent in any of the DBZ crowd.


I concur, but that implies character separation, which is something I usually don't apply. I try my best to consider characters as a whole. Besides, that would mean factoring out all DBZ manga. Either way, I was simply providing a retort for "Neo being spite".

Originally posted by marwash22
when are people gonna figure out that giving Neo full access to the powers he has in the Matrix makes him spite against pretty much any other character. implying not ALL characters.

calm down, fanboy.

Don't worry; I'm calm. Lol.

And I'm not a fanboy simply because my avatar suggests it. When provided reason, I can admit defeat. Example: Death Battle - Goku vs. Superman. I have no qualms about handing that one to DC.

Full access to his matrix powers.. I over looked this.. I change my answer to Neo taking Hancock by the ankle tightly and beating on superman until Hancock dies.. Yeah that sounds right.

Neo was a chump the subway guy mopped the floor with him despite being the One even those enhanced humans cut him with a simple sword.

Hancock and Neo win.

Originally posted by Estacado
Neo was a chump the subway guy mopped the floor with him despite being the One even those enhanced humans cut him with a simple sword. Subway guy? Enhanced humans? The hell are you talking about? That was Agent Smith fighting pre-One Neo, and a group of computer programs getting wrecked by barely-trying One Neo.

he's talking about the Train man.

He was better than Neo because that was his domain.

Ah yeah. Doesn't exactly count.

Matrix 2
Neo blocked a sword swing with his hand and it made him bleed.
He was in his domain but by that time Neo's powers expanded beyond the matrix.

Neo dies first because he isn't in his domain in this one. Hancock and Supes will put up a hell of a fight before the alien crushes him.

yimxqCn65Wk

40 onwards.

You think Supes can do more damage than that? Because I didn't see anything putting him close to that and it didn't even put Neo down.

in the Matrix, Neo is the ONE. Outside Superman reigns.

Originally posted by jinXed by JaNx
in the Matrix, Neo is the ONE. Outside Superman reigns.

However if you give Neo all his powers from the matrix as stated in OP, then he not only has strength and speed to rival Superman, he also has vastly superior h2h skills and some form of TK.

For all Neo's abilities, being invulnerable wasn't one of them. He can just manipulate reality around himself and solid objects. Unless he can do that in any way to Superman or Hancock, he's the first to die. He may be fast enough to take on dozens of Agent Smith's, but that's not enough to dodge or survive one heavy shot by Superman.

Originally posted by roughrider
For all Neo's abilities, being invulnerable wasn't one of them. He can just manipulate reality around himself and solid objects. Unless he can do that in any way to Superman or Hancock, he's the first to die. He may be fast enough to take on dozens of Agent Smith's, but that's not enough to dodge or survive one heavy shot by Superman.

Neo and Smith are fast enough to dodge bullets while NOT moving their feet. Superman has shown no such speed. Some of the hits Neo and Smith were trading were strong enough to shatter glass in the surrounding buildings. Neo may bleed, but as shown in the first Matrix movie, he doesn't die. At least not in the matrix. Not sure if that power is transferred into this thread, but the OP did say he maintains ALL his powers. That makes him unkillable. Besides, it's not like Superman is invulnerable as well. I think his fight with Zod pretty much showed that Kryptonians can be hurt and killed.

I don't consider Neo to be as strong and invulnerable as Superman, but I'd say he's close enough to give Supes some trouble. I do consider him faster though, at least in terms of combat speed if not mobile speed. Combine that with his superior fighting skill and Neo has a chance against Superman.

Again, not saying that Neo can clearly beat Superman, but I do think it's still possible. At the very least he'll give Superman a hell of a fight. And if you add Hancock, that's overkill.

Agent Smith and the other agents would do the bullet dodging; if they did manage to get lethally tagged - as Trinity did in the first film - then they just jack out of the host body and into another one. Neo would just stop the bullets in mid stream, because he could manipulate the matrix. Not a show of invulnerability. The final fight was just the matrix reality tearing and bending.

Everything Neo does is the matrix tearing and warping. That's the inherent problem with putting Neo in threads. If you dismiss certain feats he performs by pointing out that he's just manipulating the Matrix, than you have to dismiss all of them, frankly. There's only two types of Neo, the human, non-matrix Neo- and the Matrix Neo, who is basically God. There are no alternatives.

Originally posted by roughrider
For all Neo's abilities, being invulnerable wasn't one of them.

Yet theres nothing Superman can put out that can hurt him or put him down short of maybe heat vision and he's not hitting him with that. Did you see how deep that crator was in the video I posted? The force needed to put that big a hole in what looked to be rock is enormous and Neo woke up without a scratch 20 seconds later. Tzeentch is right, the OP gives him all his powers, so his durability is in.

Blanx and being right is a oxymoron.

Originally posted by Tzeentch._
Everything Neo does is the matrix tearing and warping. That's the inherent problem with putting Neo in threads. If you dismiss certain feats he performs by pointing out that he's just manipulating the Matrix, than you have to dismiss all of them, frankly. There's only two types of Neo, the human, non-matrix Neo- and the Matrix Neo, who is basically God. There are no alternatives.

"he got cut with a sword"... yeah, he also jumps into bodies and explodes them.

Neo solos.

Superman can't handle his kung fu and that's a fact.

Originally posted by Mindset
Neo solos.

Superman can't handle his kung fu and that's a fact. Show me.

The OP stated that Neo has all his abilities, that means we treat Matrix feats as if they happened in the real world....why are people having a hard time understanding this?

Originally posted by Silent Master
The OP stated that Neo has all his abilities, that means we treat Matrix feats as if they happened in the real world....why are people having a hard time understanding this? i dunno. it's always like this tho. In every single Neo thread someone tries to disqualify the body explosion as only being able to work on computer programs, even though the OP clearly intends for his powers to function as part of the real world.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Show me. Get out of my face, nerd.

Originally posted by Mindset
Get out of my face, nerd.

Leaning toward Hancock and Neo. I think Supes would take either one alone, but together they're probably too much for the MOS nube.

Originally posted by marwash22


"he got cut with a sword"... yeah, he also jumps into bodies and explodes them.



I understand they wanted to show us that despite all of Neo's powers, he still has limits, but considering he took far greater hits without a scratch, that sword scene was out of place.

definitely. it's what people in the comic vs forum would call a low showing, and it shouldn't be used to define the character was human level in terms of durability.


btw, I've watched all the Matrix special features and i don't recall them explaining why the sword cut his hand.

Originally posted by Silent Master
The OP stated that Neo has all his abilities, that means we treat Matrix feats as if they happened in the real world....why are people having a hard time understanding this?

And I'm illustrating that Neo doesn't actually have invulnerability. He has speed and reality warping to a degree. And no super strength; that rapid fire kung fu will feel like a woodpecker pecking a tree to Superman. I don't think it's enough against Superman, in the end.

Originally posted by roughrider
And I'm illustrating that Neo doesn't actually have invulnerability. He has speed and reality warping to a degree. And no super strength; that rapid fire kung fu will feel like a woodpecker pecking a tree to Superman. I don't think it's enough against Superman, in the end.

So, we just ignore all his strength and durability feats?

Originally posted by FrothByte
However if you give Neo all his powers from the matrix as stated in OP, then he not only has strength and speed to rival Superman, he also has vastly superior h2h skills and some form of TK.

Oh yeah, i got that which is why noted that inside the matrix there is no question that Neo wins. Outside of it though, he is just outclassed. There has to be a limit as to what his powers can achieve where as inside of the matrix there are no limits. Supermans, limits and boundaries, i believe, are far superior to Neos' while outside of the matrix.

Originally posted by jinXed by JaNx
Oh yeah, i got that which is why noted that inside the matrix there is no question that Neo wins. Outside of it though, he is just outclassed. There has to be a limit as to what his powers can achieve where as inside of the matrix there are no limits. Supermans, limits and boundaries, i believe, are far superior to Neos' while outside of the matrix.
Yeah, pretty much depends on whether they're fighting inside or outside the matrix.

Originally posted by carver9
All of Neo abilities are available here.


doesn't matter where the fight takes place, the OP gave him access to ALL of his abilities... whatever he did in the movies, he can do in this match.

Even the duo cannot take Superman. He is virtually indestructible and packs too much strength...

this guy.

Originally posted by marwash22
this guy.
He breaks through mountains and large rocky formations.

The MVF Golden Rule:

What is seen on screen is canon in these forums. If your character you wish to use has feats/actions/handicaps that contradict what that character did on screen (movie canon), then it is a violation and is illegal. MOVIE FEATS ONLY!

Originally posted by marwash22
The MVF Golden Rule:

What is seen on screen is canon in these forums. If your character you wish to use has feats/actions/handicaps that contradict what that character did on screen (movie canon), then it is a violation and is illegal. MOVIE FEATS ONLY!
Even in MoS, when superman fell from the clouds, he just broke through the entire hill and was not injured at all.

cool story, bro. How does Superman defend against Neo jumping into his body and blowing him up?

Originally posted by marwash22
cool story, bro. How does Superman defend against Neo jumping into his body and blowing him up?
It is not a cool story, kid; it is actual scene in the movie.

Also, Neo's powers are just simulations even in the movie setting.

Have Neo performed that feat on a Superman like individual? Neo have significant limitations even in the simulated world and will end-up getting crushed like a tin can against Superman.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
It is not a cool story, kid; it is actual scene in the movie.

Also, Neo's powers are just simulations even in the movie setting.

Have Neo performed that feat on a Superman like individual? Neo have significant limitations even in the simulated world and will end-up getting crushed like a tin can against Superman.

The OP granted Neo all of his powers for this fight, which includes strength, durability, flight, speed, ability to jump into people's bodies etc etc etc.

Originally posted by Silent Master
The OP granted Neo all of his powers for this fight, which includes strength, durability, flight, speed, ability to jump into people's bodies etc etc etc.
I understand but he still has nothing on Superman. It is futile exercise to consider Superman in versus debates; he packs too much endurance and strength (arguably the most powerful super-character introduced).

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I understand but he still has nothing on Superman.

Except much higher skill and reactions, plus the ability to enter Superman and blow him up from the inside.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Except much higher skill and reactions, plus the ability to enter Superman and blow him up from the inside.
You underestimate Superman's superhuman senses. In addition, much higher skill of Zod didn't help him against Superman; Superman just tolerated everything.

Furthermore, Neo's potential to blow up a super powerful character such as Superman is simply your assumption and speculation; if this is so easy for him then why did not Neo just pull this off against everything he encountered?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You underestimate Superman's superhuman senses. Also, much skill didn't help Zod against him. In addition, blowing up feat is simply your assumption and speculation. If this is so easy for him then why did Neo just pull this off against everything he encountered?

How does Superman's senses stop Neo from jumping into his body and blowing him up? BTW Neo was also far more skilled than Zod.

Originally posted by Silent Master
How does Superman's senses stop Neo from jumping into his body and blowing him up?
His extraordinary will? Can you offer proof that Neo can pull this kind of feat against another super-strong character? Superman also have heat vision which is extremely lethal.

Originally posted by Silent Master
BTW Neo was also far more skilled than Zod.
Debatable! Being martial artist, doesn't helps Neo against Superman, and neither his ability to dodge bullets.

Bullets cannot penetrate even Superman's eyes.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
His extraordinary will? Can you offer proof that Neo can pull this kind of feat against another super-strong character? Superman also have heat vision which is extremely lethal.

So, your stance is that MOS Superman's will power will stop Neo from jumping into his body?



Neo being more skilled than Zod isn't debatable, I can easily post multiple clips where Neo shows far more skill.

Originally posted by Silent Master
So, your stance is that MOS Superman's will power will stop Neo from jumping into his body?
Reasonable stance! No one has managed to possess Superman. He packs will power of billions of aliens.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Neo being more skilled than Zod isn't debatable, I can easily post multiple clips where Neo shows far more skill.
Zod also have extremely lethal heat vision and his martial abilities are significant as well. Strength wise, he tossed superman through skyscrapers, breaking them in the process. He could cut through buildings with his heat vision alone. Zod also had no issue tossing huge vehicles like missiles around either. Zod claimed that he can exterminate humans himself.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Reasonable stance! No one has managed to possess Superman. He packs will power of billions of aliens.

Where was this stated or shown in MOS?



Zod's skill level is nowhere near Neo's, again I can post multiple clips to prove this.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Where was this stated or shown in MOS?
Their is a scene and dialogue concerning this. Billions of alien souls or something are fed to him which grants him superpowers that begin to manifest as he grows.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Zod's skill level is nowhere near Neo's, again I can post multiple clips to prove this.
Post them. I will then post Zod's in response. Once again, fancy kicks and dodging bullets are not going to help Neo against an opponent like Superman or even Zod.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Their is a scene and dialogue concerning this. Billions of alien souls or something are fed to him which grants him superpowers that begin to manifest as he grows.


I'll ask again, was this stated or shown in MOS?



lGL_2H8gWc0

Originally posted by Silent Master
I'll ask again, was this stated or shown in MOS?
Billions of alien souls or something were imparted in to the baby that became Superman (in MoS). What part of this revelation you don't understand?

Originally posted by Silent Master
lGL_2H8gWc0


Superman can see the internals of life forms; shatterpoint like abilities. He doesn't needs to engage Neo in these fancy arts; he would rather shove him through walls and rip him apart.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Billions of alien souls or something were imparted in to the baby that became Superman (in MoS). What part of this revelation you don't understand?

Post the clip or provide the exact quote.




IOW, you're admitting that Neo is far more skilled than either Superman or Zod, thank you.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Post the clip or provide the exact quote.
I will do once I will get the movie on DVD.

Originally posted by Silent Master
IOW, you're admitting that Neo is far more skilled than either Superman or Zod, thank you.
BS! Zod have similar martial abilities. Not just this; he is far stronger than Neo.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I will do once I will get the movie on DVD.

IOW, you have no proof.



Post a clip where Zod shows more skills.

Originally posted by Silent Master
IOW, you have no proof.



Post a clip where Zod shows more skills.
I will gladly shatter your arguments once i get the movie on DVD. Till then, you should watch or re-watch MoS instead.

In the meantime:

The planet Krypton faces imminent destruction due to its unstable core, the result of years of exploiting Krypton's natural resources. The ruling council is deposed by the planet's military commander General Zod, and his followers causing a military coup. Scientist Jor-El and his wife Lara launch their newborn son Kal-El on a spacecraft to Earth, infusing his cells with a genetic codex of the entire Kryptonian race. After Zod murders Jor-El, he and his followers are captured and banished to the Phantom Zone. However, Krypton explodes some time afterwards, freeing them. (From Wikipedia)

Zod demonstrated much greater power then Neo. The fighting shown in the clip you posted is beneath the likes of Zod and Superman. These guys shatter skyscrapers, break through rocky formations, toss heavy vehicles like missiles, fly in air and space, armed with extremely lethal heat vision and more....

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I will gladly shatter your arguments once i get the movie on DVD. Till then, you should watch or re-watch MoS instead.

Like I said, you currently have no proof. BTW, since when does genetic codex = souls?



Again, we have been talking about skill and Neo has far more skill than either Superman or Zod.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Like I said, you currently have no proof.
Re-check my edited response above; it contains a major hint. Why are you in such a hurry to respond?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Again, we have been talking about skill and Neo has far more skill than either Superman or Zod.
Neo's skills are useless against the likes of Zod and Superman. Get this through your thick skull. Your argument is that Bruce Lee would defeat Superman; he cannot.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Re-check my edited response above; it contains a major hint. Why are you in such a hurry to respond?

No, it really doesn't...as a genetic codex is hardly the same thing as souls.



Again, this part of the argument was comparing their skill level and Neo's skill level is far higher than either Superman or Zod.

Originally posted by Silent Master
No, it really doesn't...as a genetic codex is hardly the same thing as souls.
Superman's senses are of planetary scale or possibly greater. He learned to control his senses after they began to overwhelm him during his childhood (indication of will power of billions).

Originally posted by Silent Master
Again, this part of the argument was comparing their skill level and Neo's skill level is far higher than either Superman or Zod.
Speculation! Zod also demonstrated impressive martial skills in MoS. In addition, Superman and Zod will laugh at those fancy kicks of Neo; I reiterate that your argument is utterly baseless one. Bruce Lee might be more martial than Zod but he isn't knocking him down; now replace Bruce Lee with Neo and you should get the hint.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Superman's senses are of planetary scale or possibly greater. He learned to control his senses (indication of will power of billions).

Provide the quote that states Superman has the will power of billions of people.



By all means, post the clip where Zod shows Neo level HTH skills.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Provide the quote that states Superman has the will power of billions of people.
During his childhood, he began to see the insides of people around him and also hear voices of billions of people on the planet. This began to overwhelm him and he locked himself in a room. However, he learned to control his extraordinary senses with his will power. Get the memo now or are you too dumb for intellectuality?

Originally posted by Silent Master
By all means, post the clip where Zod shows Neo level HTH skills.
Will do. Point is that Neo's H2H skills are useless against individuals like Zod and Superman.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
It is not a cool story, kid; it is actual scene in the movie.

Also, Neo's powers are just simulations even in the movie setting.

Have Neo performed that feat on a Superman like individual? Neo have significant limitations even in the simulated world and will end-up getting crushed like a tin can against Superman. bermm

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
During his childhood, he began to see the insides of people around him and also hear voices of billions of people on the planet. This began to overwhelm him and he locked himself in a room. However, he learned to control his extraordinary senses with his will power. Get the memo now or are you too dumb for intellectuality?

Again, where does it state that he has the will power of billions of people?



Point is, Neo is far more skilled than either Superman or Zod.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Again, where does it state that he has the will power of billions of people?
His senses are of planetary scale or greater; he have the will power to control such senses = will power of billions of people. Man, some people are too dumb in this forum and you are fitting in this category.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Point is, Neo is far more skilled than either Superman or Zod.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
His senses are of planetary scale of greater; he have will to control such senses = will power of billions of people. Man, some people are too dumb in this forum and you are fitting in this category.

Where is it stated that it takes the will power of billions of people to control his senses?



I'm glad that you agree about Neo being far more skilled than either Superman or Zod.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Where is it stated that it takes the will power of billions of people to control his senses?
Listen parrot, use your brain (if you have one).

Originally posted by Silent Master
I'm glad that you agree about Neo being far more skilled than either Superman or Zod.
My entire argument flew over your head. Brilliant.

Bruce Lee had greater martial skills than anybody. Does this means that he can handle Zod or individuals like him? Use your brain.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Listen parrot, use your brain (if you have one).

I'll ask again, where was it stated that controlling his senses requires the will power of billions of people?



Again, we were talking about how Neo compared to Zod in regards to skill.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I understand but he still has nothing on Superman. It is futile exercise to consider Superman in versus debates; he packs too much endurance and strength (arguably the most powerful super-character introduced).
Just to be clear, you know that Neo is capable of jumping into a persons body and make it explode, but your argument is that this ability is to be ignored when Superman is involved... merely because he is Superman?

Originally posted by marwash22
Just to be clear, you know that Neo is capable of jumping into a persons body and make it explode, but your argument is that this ability is to be ignored when Superman is involved... merely because he is Superman?
Superman possesses will power to control his planetary scale (or greater) senses.

On the contrary, can you prove that Neo can possess and destroy anybody regardless of the opponent's power and resistance ability?

@Silent Master

I am not going to feed your trolling further.

IOW, it was never stated that it takes the will power of billions of people to control his senses and instead of admitting that you were wrong, you're just going to run away.

Originally posted by Silent Master
IOW, it was never stated that it takes the will power of billions of people to control his senses and instead of admitting that you were wrong, you're just going to run away.
Problem is that you are clueless about Superman's senses.

Superman can sense the presence and hear voices of entire populace of the planet; imagine hearing billions of people talking simultaneously. He have will power to control senses of this scale. Do the math.

Using that logic, movie Heimdall's will power is thousands of times stronger than Superman's.

I'm glad you're admitting that Superman's will power is so weak when compared to that of an Asgardian.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Superman possesses will power to control his planetary scale (or greater) senses. what does that have to do with being blown up from the inside?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
On the contrary, can you prove that Neo can possess and destroy anybody regardless of the opponent's power and resistance ability?
lolwut?

i don't have to prove that, it happened on-screen.

You have absolutely zero evidence that supports the idea that Superman can resist a force from inside of his body.

Lol @ Legend. Dude, just no.

Originally posted by marwash22
what does that have to do with being blown up from the inside?

lolwut?

i don't have to prove that, it happened on-screen.

You have absolutely zero evidence that supports the idea that Superman can resist a force from inside of his body.

Haven't you seen the last few pages, he's arguing that Superman had billions of souls placed into his body and that is where his powers come from.

I'm still trying to figure out if he's trolling us; if he is, he is putting on a masterful performance.

Quan should take notes.

Originally posted by marwash22
I'm still trying to figure out if he's trolling us; if he is, he is putting on a masterful performance. LeGenD? Oh it's genuine. Take a trip through the glory days of the SWVF. His stubbornness and lulz were... LeGenD, ary? *hurr hurr*

What the hell has Superman's will power got to do with Neo blowing him up? Neo doesn't possess someone or try to telepathically subvert them, he just enters them and makes them explode. Got nothing to do with will power.

Neo also has faster reflexes. And no, Zod doesn't have skill to match Neo.

Originally posted by FrothByte
What the hell has Superman's will power got to do with Neo blowing him up? Neo doesn't possess someone or try to telepathically subvert them, he just enters them and makes them explode. Got nothing to do with will power.

Neo also has faster reflexes. And no, Zod doesn't have skill to match Neo.

Didn't you know? those billions of souls that Superman was injected with will attack Neo if he tried entering Superman and once they kicked Neo out, Superman would charge up a 100x kamehameha wave and destroy him.

Originally posted by marwash22
what does that have to do with being blown up from the inside?
How will Neo possess Superman in the first place or get inside him?

Originally posted by marwash22
lolwut?

i don't have to prove that, it happened on-screen.

You have absolutely zero evidence that supports the idea that Superman can resist a force from inside of his body.
Genius, Neo destroyed whom in this manner?

Originally posted by marwash22
I'm still trying to figure out if he's trolling us; if he is, he is putting on a masterful performance.

Quan should take notes.
Trolling? Trolls are those who keep parroting statements. I am offering explanation for every assertion of mine.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
LeGenD? Oh it's genuine. Take a trip through the glory days of the SWVF. His stubbornness and lulz were... LeGenD, ary? *hurr hurr*
Many debaters are stubborn in this forum. This thread alone offers proof.

Originally posted by FrothByte
What the hell has Superman's will power got to do with Neo blowing him up? Neo doesn't possess someone or try to telepathically subvert them, he just enters them and makes them explode. Got nothing to do with will power.
How he enters his opponents?
How he makes them explode?
How strong were the individuals he exploded?

Care to answer all of these questions?

Originally posted by FrothByte
Neo also has faster reflexes. And no, Zod doesn't have skill to match Neo.
Zod have advantages of his own. I can say that Zod burns Neo to ash with his heat vision.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
How he enters his opponents?
How he makes them explode?
How strong were the individuals he exploded?



http://youtu.be/zYwdzYC3uUc?t=1m35s

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
How will Neo possess Superman in the first place or get inside him?


Genius, Neo destroyed whom in this manner?


Trolling? Trolls are those who keep parroting statements. I am offering explanation for every assertion of mine.


Many debaters are stubborn in this forum. This thread alone offers proof.


How he enters his opponents?
How he makes them explode?
How strong were the individuals he exploded?

Care to answer all of these questions?


Zod have advantages of his own. I can say that Zod burns Neo to ash with his heat vision.

Neo entered thru Smith's chest and made him explode. How exactly is will power supposed to help Superman here? Smith may not be as strong superman ar this point but he does have faster combat speed and way better fighting skill.

Neo at the end of the Matrix was faster than any agent save smith and the agents could effortlessly dodge gunfire. Zod will have hell of a time trying to hit Neo with his heat vision... heat vision which he could barely control.

Originally posted by marwash22
http://youtu.be/zYwdzYC3uUc?t=1m35s
Thanks for providing the link.

Matrix represents a computerized simulation in which individuals are like programs that can override one another; the stronger program can override weaker one. This footage depicts an overriding process but it fails since the agent comes back later on (his program sustained). I don't understand how this feat is applicable in a versus debate since Superman does not represents a program and nor he is part of a computerized simulation. By virtue of this explanation, Neo cannot pull off this feat against Superman.

Superman is lot more powerful then Agent Smith by the way.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Neo entered thru Smith's chest and made him explode. How exactly is will power supposed to help Superman here? Smith may not be as strong superman ar this point but he does have faster combat speed and way better fighting skill.
When you are as strong as Superman and/or Zod, you don't need martial skills to get the job done.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Neo at the end of the Matrix was faster than any agent save smith and the agents could effortlessly dodge gunfire. Zod will have hell of a time trying to hit Neo with his heat vision... heat vision which he could barely control.
You are underestimating Zod's speed. It took him some seconds to reach outer-space from earth ground, if I recall correctly.

Originally posted by marwash22
http://youtu.be/zYwdzYC3uUc?t=1m35s

A good point about that scene: Even when Smith tries to use superspeed similar in regards to Supes own, Neo still easily blocks him and grabs him arm.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Thanks for providing the link.

Matrix represents a computerized simulation in which individuals are like programs that can override one another; the stronger program can override weaker one. This footage depicts an overriding process but it fails since the agent comes back later on (his program sustained). I don't understand how this feat is applicable in a versus debate since Superman does not represents a program and nor he is part of a computerized simulation. By virtue of this explanation, Neo cannot pull off this feat against Superman.

I do personally agree with this though. Superman isn't a program Neo can jump inside of like Smith is.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Thanks for providing the link.

Matrix represents a computerized simulation in which individuals are like programs that can override one another; the stronger program can override weaker one. This footage depicts an overriding process but it fails since the agent comes back later on (his program sustained). I don't understand how this feat is applicable in a versus debate since Superman does not represents a program and nor he is part of a computerized simulation. By virtue of this explanation, Neo cannot pull off this feat against Superman.

Superman is lot more powerful then Agent Smith by the way.

Originally posted by carver9
All of Neo abilities are available here.

I know! But some of his abilities would not be possible against individuals that are not part of the virtual rituality he is. Neo's overriding capability is null and void in this contest unless he is dealing with another programmed individual like him.

It's understood that Neo's power are to be treated as if they are apart of the real world... Neo (as The One) is computer simulation, if you wanna use the logic of him not being able to use that move because the other person isn't a program like Smith is, then he should never be used on this forum because a computer simulation can't touch real people, and vice versa.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I do personally agree with this though. Superman isn't a program Neo can jump inside of like Smith is.

As shown in the movies mutliple times, Agents take over a person's body and use that to get around, so by entering Smith, he's also entering a human body. Thus there is no reason to assume that Superman would be immune.

No he isn't. He's entering a Matrix construct of a human body. Just data. The real humans are in those creepy pods filled with orange tang in the real world.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No he isn't. He's entering a Matrix construct of a human body. Just data. The real humans are in those creepy pods filled with orange tang in the real world. so you're of the opinion that Neo shouldn't be used in forum matches unless it's against other computer programs?

No?

Originally posted by Nephthys
No he isn't. He's entering a Matrix construct of a human body. Just data. The real humans are in those creepy pods filled with orange tang in the real world.

Per the OP, we are treating his matrix abilities as if they were real, which means if he can enter a matrix human, then he can enter a human for the purposes of debate...same with all his other powers.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No? which is it?

You agree that we are to treat all of Neo's moves as if they can happen in the real world, and "body exploding" is a valid move for Neo to use against non-computer program opponents.

or,

You think the move is invalid due to the move only working on computer programs, thus, all of Neo's moves are invalid because Neo is a computer program and NONE of his abilities can affect a non-computer program opponent.

Are these guys quan's sock accounts? because they're using exactly the same argument he used in the Bride vs Babydoll thread.

they're using ridiculous logic.

it's both annoying and entertaining.

I was just pointing out that Smith doesn't actually enter a human body in the first Matrix. Nothing in the Matrix is actually real.

I'm on two minds on the actual issue. I guess I'd say that he can still use his abilities, but that they wouldn't work on a real human. They'd work on himself though.

Also I just think that jumping in to everyone is horribly cheap.

Edit: Screw you guys for comparing me to Quan.

hey, i don't disagree that it's cheap (i feel the same way about "speedblitzing" and "mindrape", but if the OP doesn't rule it out as an option, it's a valid win for the character.

Interesting issue. Since Neo can enter people in the matrix, he can do it in this versus thread.

However to assume the power opponent will not make a difference is a bit unrealistic. After all he wasn't simply able to enter Super Smith's body to win the fight in Revolutions despite the fact that he could do just that to a weaker incarnation of the same character in the first movie.

Anything carver wants isn't a win for anyone.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Interesting issue. Since Neo can enter people in the matrix, he can do it in this versus thread.

However to assume the power opponent will not make a difference is a bit unrealistic. After all he wasn't simply able to enter Super Smith's body to win the fight in Revolutions despite the fact that he could do just that to a weaker incarnation of the same character in the first movie.

I don't recall Neo trying and failing to enter the more powerful Smith...however I do recall Neo destroying the more powerful Smith and a few thousand of his clones remotely.

Originally posted by marwash22
they're using ridiculous logic.

it's both annoying and entertaining.
It is not ridiculous logic; you are trying to blend simulation with reality. I have pointed out the difference.

Superman doesn't represents virtual program. Even if Neo gets all of his abilities, his (super) abilities will be effective against other virtual programs like him. The real individuals would be anomalies for him.

In short, Neo is bad choice for versus debates.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Interesting issue. Since Neo can enter people in the matrix, he can do it in this versus thread.

However to assume the power opponent will not make a difference is a bit unrealistic. After all he wasn't simply able to enter Super Smith's body to win the fight in Revolutions despite the fact that he could do just that to a weaker incarnation of the same character in the first movie.
Interesting revelation; issue is that Neo fans want to hide important information. My predictions are spot on.

Superman is too powerful for Neo to explode from inside. Their is no programming to be found to override and the individual is too powerful.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
he wasn't simply able to enter Super Smith's body to win the fight in Revolutions despite the fact that he could do just that to a weaker incarnation of the same character in the first movie. he never even tried.

Smith tried to overwrite Neo, and failed.

call it a plothole that he never tried, but don't make stuff up.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Interesting issue. Since Neo can enter people in the matrix, he can do it in this versus thread.

However to assume the power opponent will not make a difference is a bit unrealistic. After all he wasn't simply able to enter Super Smith's body to win the fight in Revolutions despite the fact that he could do just that to a weaker incarnation of the same character in the first movie.

Explanation for this is:

In the first movie, Smith was part of the Matrix. When Neo finally mastered the Matrix he was able to unmake Smith. After that, Smith was disconnected from the Matrix. He existed as a parasite inside the Matrix but not part of the Matrix which is why Neo was unable to unmake him anymore. It's the same reason why Neo couldn't use the same tactic against Merovingian's cronies because all of them were actually reject programs and were already slated for deletion, they were not part of the Matrix anymore and thus Neo had no power over them. So Neo had to take them on the old fashioned way.

As for this debate, only the OP can decide if Neo's "unmaking" capabilities are carried over to the real world. Since there is proof that entities can exist inside the Matrix but are not part of the matrix, then maybe we can assume that's how Superman is in this fight. But right now the OP did say Neo has ALL his abilities, which is why I'm debating for it, but a proper point can be made against it as well.

One thing I do know though, is that will power has got nothing to do with whether Neo can make you explode or not.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Thanks for providing the link.

Matrix represents a computerized simulation in which individuals are like programs that can override one another; the stronger program can override weaker one. This footage depicts an overriding process but it fails since the agent comes back later on (his program sustained). I don't understand how this feat is applicable in a versus debate since Superman does not represents a program and nor he is part of a computerized simulation. By virtue of this explanation, Neo cannot pull off this feat against Superman.

Superman is lot more powerful then Agent Smith by the way.


When you are as strong as Superman and/or Zod, you don't need martial skills to get the job done.


You are underestimating Zod's speed. It took him some seconds to reach outer-space from earth ground, if I recall correctly.

1. No other person in the Matrix can override another, regardless of how strong. Only Matrix agents can override other people. Neo never did override Smith, he just unmade him.

2. Superman is more powerful than the original Smith, but looks pretty even with Oracle-Smith.

3. When someone is strong enough to hurt you, martial skills is a huge deciding factor, especially when that someone has mastered just about every martial art known to man.

4. Oh Zod is fast, in terms of running speed and flight speed and mobile speed in general. Smith however has far better combat speed feats. He's able to speed blitz with punches at a rate Zod has never been shown to do. And Smith is able to perform complex maneuvers at high speed whereas Zod can only perform basic movements in high speed. AND Neo is faster than Smith.

Since this is a fight and not a race, I imagine combat speed being a heavier factor here than mobile speed.

Nor should durability matter. As Neo is simply messing with the coding not the actual physical character.

Anyway, the way I view it is if Superman, in this scenario, isn't actually part of the matrix but is hacking into it then Neo's unmaking technique would likely not work. If he is fully integrated like the humans in the pods than he is unmade.

Neo sucks for vs

For this sort of fight he does.

Kind of sucks for everything. He is either god, or a blind human capable of shutting down sentinels.

Not really, you just have to treat all his feats as if they happened in the "real world", problem solved.

Instead we have multiple people trying to pull a quan and do'q feats because they want their favorite character to win.

Originally posted by Zack Fair
Neo sucks for vs

Yup agreed. Even Baby Doll is easier to debate with.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Not really, you just have to treat all his feats as if they happened in the "real world", problem solved.

Instead we have multiple people trying to pull a quan and do'q feats because they want their favorite character to win.

If we take everything that happened in the matrix for real world then he is a godlike being pretty much near invincible unless put against equally godlike beings.

Originally posted by Zack Fair
If we take everything that happened in the matrix for real world then he is a godlike being pretty much near invincible unless put against equally godlike beings.

And the problem with that is?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Not really, you just have to treat all his feats as if they happened in the "real world", problem solved.

Instead we have multiple people trying to pull a quan and do'q feats because they want their favorite character to win.

The only feat I've seen people arguing against is Neo's unmake move. Which seemingly depends on how the character is inserted into the Matrix.

Originally posted by Silent Master
And the problem with that is? That it makes him stupid in vs matches when people pit him against people not "godlike."

Originally posted by ares834
The only feat I've seen people arguing against is Neo's unmake move. Which seemingly depends on how the character is inserted into the Matrix.

All his powers are dependent on the Matrix, if you do'd one you have to do all of them.

Originally posted by Silent Master
All his powers are dependent on the Matrix, if you do'd one you have to do all of them.

Dependent on how the opponent is placed in the matrix, i.e. whether they are hacking into the matrix or fully integrated into.

Originally posted by Zack Fair
That it makes him stupid in vs matches when people pit him against people not "godlike."

Then only put him against people that have a chance of beating Matrix Neo, problem solved.

Originally posted by ares834
Dependent on how the opponent is placed in the matrix, i.e. whether they are hacking into the matrix or fully integrated into.

Again, all of his powers are dependent on the Matrix, so either they all count or none of them do.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Then only put him against people that have a chance of beating Matrix Neo, problem solved. People fail to grasp the concept.

We done now?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Again, all of his powers are dependent on the Matrix, so either they all count or none of them do. why do people not comprehend this?

weird.

"The guy who is a computer program can hit people made of flesh... but the guy who is a computer program can't jump into the bodies of people made of flesh"

/derp.

Originally posted by Zack Fair
People fail to grasp the concept.

We done now?

Since you've finally grasped the concept, there is no need to continue.


Originally posted by marwash22
why do people not comprehend this?

weird.

"The guy who is a computer program can hit people made of flesh... but the guy who is a computer program can't jump into the bodies of people made of flesh"

/derp.

The problem isn't that they don't understand, it's that they want to give their favorite character the win...so F$%k the OP and their stips.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Again, all of his powers are dependent on the Matrix, so either they all count or none of them do.

Are you even reading what I'm saying?

And no, you're wrong. There is a reason why the Agents can't just hack the people who have left the matrix. Morpheus himself makes this clear when he explains to Neo that any of "them", which refers to the people that are unknowingly in the matrix, can become an Agent.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Since you've finally grasped the concept, there is no need to continue. I always got it.

Whats with the attitude?

Originally posted by Zack Fair
We done now? that's not attitude?

sneer

Originally posted by marwash22
that's not attitude?

sneer No.



























131

Originally posted by ares834
Are you even reading what I'm saying?

And no, you're wrong. There is a reason why the Agents can't just hack the people who have left the matrix. Morpheus himself makes this clear when he explains to Neo that any of "them", which refers to the people that are unknowingly in the matrix, can become an Agent.

I've seen the movie, thank you. my point stands.

So in any case Neo solos by making Superman explode just by thinking about it.

/thread.

Let it join the graveyard.

Originally posted by Silent Master
I've seen the movie, thank you. my point stands.

So you've seen the movie yet are saying stuff that contradicts it to win a debate.


Ok.

Originally posted by ares834
So you've seen the movie yet are saying stuff that contradicts it to win a debate.


Ok. what are you referring to?

Originally posted by ares834
So you've seen the movie yet are saying stuff that contradicts it to win a debate.


Ok.

So, according to you Neo can fly and stop bullets without being in the Matrix? Great, post the clips...otherwise my statement that all his powers were dependent on the Matrix was accurate.

lol

What the **** are talking about?

Originally posted by marwash22
what are you referring to?

The Agents' hacking powers.

Originally posted by ares834
The Agents' hacking powers. you're not talking about the same thing we're talking about.

lol

Originally posted by marwash22
you're not talking about the same thing we're talking about.

What are you talking about?

I'm saying that some of the powers are dependent on how the opponent is inserted into the matrix. In this case the Agents' hacking.

Then, considering the similarities between Neo's unmaking and the Agents' hacking, and how Neo never utilizes it against the "virus" Smith; I come to the conclusion that that specific power of Neo's is also dependent on how the opponent is in the system.