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Pre-flashpoint Orion
VS
Maestro Hulk

H2H only so no gear like the astro-Harness or mother box for Orion.

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100412144934/marvel_dc/images/thumb/5/56/Orion_005.jpg/311px-Orion_005.jpg
http://i.annihil.us/u/prod/marvel/i/mg/4/30/4d278ee344785/detail.jpg

Maestro

Maestro.

Orion.

That's a cool pic of Orion, but Maestro would beast all over him, and break his neck.

Is he just to much physically for Orion the dog of war?

What are Maestro's best feats?

^He's Hulk, just stronger, more vicious and experienced.

Hand to hand? Maestro wins. Orion's best bet is to go pure skill mode, avoid trading blows and use some kind of hold to take out Maestro early. But that's too much OOC and Maestro is hardly some scrub so he breaks him.

In a pure h2h brawl, Maestro wins.

Orion makes him work for it. Superior skill, prolly speed too. Alas, Maestro is a hulk. H2H and brawling is their thing. He wins.

Orion is gimped here.

Wouldn't Orion without the Motherbox basically just go ape shit? Unless the Motherbox is present only to calm Orion down (relatively speaking) but otherwise provides no real function for this fight.

MB can heal his injuries as well.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Wouldn't Orion without the Motherbox basically just go ape shit? Unless the Motherbox is present only to calm Orion down (relatively speaking) but otherwise provides no real function for this fight. Not necessarily. In his own ongoing (plus the various volumes of NGds), he never really had to rely on an mbox to pacify him. He was smart, tactical, and calculating.

Freakin JLA characterized him as a gunzblazin unthinking brute who went apeshiet all the time. Made him too shallow. Bleh...

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Not necessarily. In his own ongoing (plus the various volumes of NGds), he never really had to rely on an mbox to pacify him. He was smart, tactical, and calculating.

Freakin JLA characterized him as a gunzblazin unthinking brute who went apeshiet all the time. Made him too shallow. Bleh... JLA pretty much shit on Orion.

But his normal appearances painted a completely different picture. In one of his more skillful appearances, he defeated Darkseid without the MB (mind you Darkseid teleported himself away), and it proceeded to not work where Orion deduced that Kalibak was being amped off a belt, and then tricked him to attack Desaad. Plus a bunch of other shit

Yeah JLA and guest appearances were horrible for Orion. And New Gods in general.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Not necessarily. In his own ongoing (plus the various volumes of NGds), he never really had to rely on an mbox to pacify him. He was smart, tactical, and calculating.

Freakin JLA characterized him as a gunzblazin unthinking brute who went apeshiet all the time. Made him too shallow. Bleh...

Totally. He was almost like a Lobo Lite.

Only good thing about it, was his friction with Aquaman.

In his solo series, he was pretty much a monster in h2h, the way he destroyed Slig after tanking his planetary level transmutation powers as attempted to kill him, completely wrecked Mantis, did better against Darkseid then Superman ever did (IMO), not to mention the speed feats (All done without his eyes)

Originally posted by cdtm
Totally. He was almost like a Lobo Lite.

Only good thing about it, was his friction with Aquaman.

In his solo series, he was pretty much a monster in h2h, the way he destroyed Slig after tanking his planetary level transmutation powers as attempted to kill him, completely wrecked Mantis, did better against Darkseid then Superman ever did (IMO), not to mention the speed feats (All done without his eyes)

Yet he still gets beaten by old man Hulk? (is what seems to be the overall view of the thread so far)

Originally posted by SevenShackles
Yet he still gets beaten by old man Hulk? (is what seems to be the overall view of the thread so far)

Yup.

Maestro is just too strong and tough for him in pure hand to hand.

Originally posted by cdtm
after tanking his planetary level transmutation powers as attempted to kill him

Hmm, where is this from? I don't remember the scene, got an issue number?

Also, the fight where Superman makes Darkseid beg for quarter is way more humiliating for Darkseid then the one with Orion. Too humiliating imo.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Hmm, where is this from? I don't remember the scene, got an issue number?

Also, the fight where Superman makes Darkseid beg for quarter is way more humiliating for Darkseid then the one with Orion. Too humiliating imo. Orion 19/20

Slig was ****ing with the oceans and creating a shit ton of creatures that was really wreaking havoc on Earth. Orion tanked his hand twice and kicked the utter shit out of him. He also reversed all the damage instantly.

Hold on, the beating he puts on Slig is one of the funniest repeated panels I've seen.

Meh, Orion made Darkseid fake his own death and let Orion rule while he plotted against Orion.

Someone else can upload him doing it in the act.
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/orion-19-007.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/orion-19-017.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/orion-20-005.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/orion-20-006.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/orion-20-007.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/orion-20-008.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/orion-20-009.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/orion-20-010.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/orion-20-011.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/orion-20-012.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/orion-20-013.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/orion-20-014.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/orion-20-015.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/orion-20-016.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/orion-20-017.jpg

Maestro wins.

Ok. What if I gave Orion his equipment? Would that give him more of a chance?

Maestro wins.

Originally posted by SevenShackles
Ok. What if I gave Orion his equipment? Would that give him more of a chance?


How would that make a difference? Maestro punked merged Hulk in Future Imperfect like a grown man would punk an 8 yr old. Let's get the lay of the land under way shall we? Merged Hulk had some pretty good feats, at the size of a mouse he nearly KO'd the Abomination with one hit, he also went toe to toe with the closest thing in comics to Orion in Thor when they had it out in the Arctic, and many would say that Merged Hulk won that battle with a Thor that was not holding back.

Maestro toyed with that same version of the Hulk, so it gives us some pretty solid stuff in terms of feats to compare him to. Maestro would kill Orion even without the nerf. Also he had a rather ominous looking trophy room, and if it meant that he killed all of the heroes that were depicted to have died then I can't see how Orion would fare any better (ref. Hulk Future Imperfect).

Didn't Maestro come back in recent years with Logan from "Days of Future Past" and scrapped with their current selves? Even though it was just a brief bout Current Hulk seemed to do pretty well, they seemed almost even until Hulk thunderclapped them out a window just for the future duo to teleport back to the future and report to a Red Hulk with a mustache, I recall seeing scans of that fight and always wondered if they ever explained what was going on. Maestro has always been one of the more interesting incarnations of Hulk imo, I wish they'd bring him around more often lol.

That being said, yeah facing a hulk blow for blow isn't the best idea, as badass as Orion is I'd say this is his fight to lose.

Originally posted by SevenShackles
Ok. What if I gave Orion his equipment? Would that give him more of a chance? Yes but he will more than likely bullrush into a big ass fist.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Orion makes him work for it. Superior skill, prolly speed too. Alas, Maestro is a hulk. H2H and brawling is their thing. He wins.

Orion is gimped here. Orion has superior speed. No question.

Gimped, is something Orion can never be.

Originally posted by SevenShackles
Ok. What if I gave Orion his equipment? Would that give him more of a chance?

Mother Box and Astro Force? Or just Mother Box?

Originally posted by Stoic
How would that make a difference? Maestro punked merged Hulk in Future Imperfect like a grown man would punk an 8 yr old. Let's get the lay of the land under way shall we? Merged Hulk had some pretty good feats, at the size of a mouse he nearly KO'd the Abomination with one hit, he also went toe to toe with the closest thing in comics to Orion in Thor when they had it out in the Arctic, and many would say that Merged Hulk won that battle with a Thor that was not holding back.

Maestro toyed with that same version of the Hulk, so it gives us some pretty solid stuff in terms of feats to compare him to. Maestro would kill Orion even without the nerf. Also he had a rather ominous looking trophy room, and if it meant that he killed all of the heroes that were depicted to have died then I can't see how Orion would fare any better (ref. Hulk Future Imperfect).

Merged was a weaker Hulk, wasn't he?

That's the version Deaths Head II did well against, and it was downplayed because of this Hulks formidibility compared to other Hulks..

But ftr, Slig and Mantis are both more then a match for Merged themselves. It was outright stated Slig is about in the Superman strength range, abd Orion steamrolled him.

Or look at Kalibak, even. He's almost always given Superman a decent fight, while he's only given Orion trouble amped. Unamped, Orion one shots him.

Aquaman steamrolled slig too FWIW. Many characters have been stated to be in superman class with no feats to back it up.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Mother Box and Astro Force? Or just Mother Box?

Was thinking astro force but mother box also if needed to make it more even

Maestro

Originally posted by SevenShackles
Was thinking astro force but mother box also if needed to make it more even

With gear, Orion wins.

Originally posted by Golgo13
With gear, Orion wins. Based on ?

Originally posted by cdtm
Merged was a weaker Hulk, wasn't he? A common misconception. Professor Hulk was not weaker. He was stronger.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Aquaman steamrolled slig too FWIW. Many characters have been stated to be in superman class with no feats to back it up.

A fair point.

It's Aquaman, though. With respect to his fans, he gets written outside his weight class by writers a lot. An equal to Wonder Woman lately, for example, and he did better vs Despero physically then just about anyone except "Angel Supergirl".

The Slig fight is still an impressive display of durability and transmutation resistance, if nothing else.

Originally posted by cdtm
Merged was a weaker Hulk, wasn't he?

That's the version Deaths Head II did well against, and it was downplayed because of this Hulks formidibility compared to other Hulks..

But ftr, Slig and Mantis are both more then a match for Merged themselves. It was outright stated Slig is about in the Superman strength range, abd Orion steamrolled him.

Or look at Kalibak, even. He's almost always given Superman a decent fight, while he's only given Orion trouble amped. Unamped, Orion one shots him.

I only know of one case that merged Hulk seemed to be less than the other Hulk's,, and that was when he fought Wonder Man, which seemed to be a writer pushing for Simon to join the ranks of the big boys. At a high point, Merged Hulk gave the infantile version of Drax a good fight while he possessed the Power gem. If anyone can recall, this version of Drax nearly choked the life out of the Surfer while using only brute strength.

So if you're only using the Merged Hulk's one to perhaps three low showings as an indication that he was somewhat far less than the other Hulk's go for it, but it doesn't sway me into believing that Maestro is any less than the Future Imperfect storyline made him out to be. Also Superman holds back a lot so using him here isn't really working out well as a gauge.

Originally posted by cdtm
A fair point.

It's Aquaman, though. With respect to his fans, he gets written outside his weight class by writers a lot. An equal to Wonder Woman lately, for example, and he did better vs Despero physically then just about anyone except "Angel Supergirl".

The Slig fight is still an impressive display of durability and transmutation resistance, if nothing else.
Aquaman when written by PAD and DnA was consistently far below than the likes of Wonder Woman as he fought Slig. Its Johns who is the only guy who writes him as equal to diana.

Originally posted by Stoic
I only know of one case that merged Hulk seemed to be less than the other Hulk's,, and that was when he fought Wonder Man, which seemed to be a writer pushing for Simon to join the ranks of the big boys. At a high point, Merged Hulk gave the infantile version of Drax a good fight while he possessed the Power gem. If anyone can recall, this version of Drax nearly choked the life out of the Surfer while using only brute strength.

So if you're only using the Merged Hulk's one to perhaps three low showings as an indication that he was somewhat far less than the other Hulk's go for it, but it doesn't sway me into believing that Maestro is any less than the Future Imperfect storyline made him out to be. Also Superman holds back a lot so using him here isn't really working out well as a gauge.
Savage hulk gave PG drax a good fight too, even after his rage calmed down by a telepath. Merged was stronger than savage at base level. It was blatantly obvious against Glob.

Originally posted by Stoic
I only know of one case that merged Hulk seemed to be less than the other Hulk's,, and that was when he fought Wonder Man, which seemed to be a writer pushing for Simon to join the ranks of the big boys. At a high point, Merged Hulk gave the infantile version of Drax a good fight while he possessed the Power gem. If anyone can recall, this version of Drax nearly choked the life out of the Surfer while using only brute strength.

So if you're only using the Merged Hulk's one to perhaps three low showings as an indication that he was somewhat far less than the other Hulk's go for it, but it doesn't sway me into believing that Maestro is any less than the Future Imperfect storyline made him out to be. Also Superman holds back a lot so using him here isn't really working out well as a gauge.

Hey, as a Minion Minion fan, the last thing I want to do is lowball what represents one of his most impressive fights.

He never really hurt Drax, though. He fought well, and pulled some nice moves, the same way Gamora looked good vs Maxim, through outmanuvering him.

Originally posted by ODG
A common misconception. Professor Hulk was not weaker. He was stronger.

The main reason Im mostly told as to why prof hulk is weaker s because when he gets mad he turns into mindless Banner. I see it as a weakness but Hulk didn't 'hulk out' and loose his cool as easily as Banner so it being a giant chink In his armor seems a bit much. Also wasnt he one of the bigger hulks?

Originally posted by cdtm
Merged was a weaker Hulk, wasn't he?

Not at all. He was intelligent and had a base/calm strength level that was pretty close if not equal to Superman/Thor and could even get stronger.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Not at all. He was intelligent and had a base/calm strength level that was pretty close if not equal to Superman/Thor and could even get stronger.
He was equal to thor at base level and thus weaker than superman. He doesn't have the feats of savage hulk going much higher than Thor level though.

Originally posted by abhilegend
He was equal to thor at base level and thus weaker than superman. He doesn't have the feats of savage hulk going much higher than Thor level though.

I'm not of the opinion that Superman is automatically always > Thor in strength. I think their respective fights indicate that it's his likely strength level.

Actually, Merged Hulk was always outperforming Savage Hulk on average, if you want a list, I can probably PM Liam. I don't think he has Hulk's highest end feats but Merged Hulk was mostly under PAD and then when he appeared again, evolved into Green Scar. The intention was clear to me.

Originally posted by SevenShackles
The main reason Im mostly told as to why prof hulk is weaker s because when he gets mad he turns into mindless Banner. I see it as a weakness but Hulk didn't 'hulk out' and loose his cool as easily as Banner so it being a giant chink In his armor seems a bit much. Also wasnt he one of the bigger hulks? Him turning into Savage Banner was the exception, not the rule. And it tended to happen when he saw Betty shot/die.

Originally posted by ODG
Him turning into Savage Banner was the exception, not the rule. And it tended to happen when he saw Betty shot/die.
I only have one memory of it, him on a plane with some woman and mr.Hyde. I have no clue how much it really factored in but ppl like to talk about it like it happened often.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I'm not of the opinion that Superman is automatically always > Thor in strength. I think their respective fights indicate that it's his likely strength level.

Actually, Merged Hulk was always outperforming Savage Hulk on average, if you want a list, I can probably PM Liam. I don't think he has Hulk's highest end feats but Merged Hulk was mostly under PAD and then when he appeared again, evolved into Green Scar. The intention was clear to me.
Well you wouldn't be a thorbag if you don't think so. I can BZ you at that topic any time though. Wanna do a BZ on that?

He was outperforming savage hulk's average feats. He doesn't have his higher end feats like beating the shit out of original Abomination or oneshotting a guy who knocked out thing by a finger-flick by getting angry. His base was higher but his anger-strength dynamic was a bit lower than savage.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Well you wouldn't be a thorbag if you don't think so. I can BZ you at that topic any time though. Wanna do a BZ on that?

He was outperforming savage hulk's average feats. He doesn't have his higher end feats like beating the shit out of original Abomination or oneshotting a guy who knocked out thing by a finger-flick by getting angry. His base was higher but his anger-strength dynamic was a bit lower than savage.

Hmm? You want to battle zone that Superman isn't always stronger then Thor?

I'm not your biggest fan, but isn't that a loaded question for you?

I don't think Merged Hulk ever failed in a situation that Savage Hulk succeeded. He actually systematically outperformed him against similar opponents whenever he faced them. I don't think he has any high end feats like destroying the asteroid as Grey Hulk or punching through a time storm but we both know that those aren't necessary. I honestly don't remember any scene where he had trouble getting angry pre-Savage Banner. He did channel the power of the Reborn Universe and shit though as a high end feats IIRC.

I always thought Prof. Hulk was supposed to be far superior, on average, to Savage Hulk. Though incapable of Savage Hulk's almost instantaneous amping and the associated high-end feats. That he was far too "cold" and inhibited by the domination of Banner to cut loose.

I thought that was what was being illustrated by Jean Grey shutting Banner down for Mindless Hulk to smash Onslaught.

Savage Hulk is the only Hulk, that would go toe to toe with Green Scar or Maestro, imo.

The others would eventually reach a limit or be over-taken by Savage Hulk's ridiculously fast amping.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
He did channel the power of the Reborn Universe and shit though as a high end feats IIRC.
Wasn't that Bannerless Hulk?

Iirc, the whole universe's energies basically flowed through him and used his body as a jamb to open a doorway between that universe and 616.

Probably the highest, high-end feat of any sub-Abstract, imo.

Originally posted by SevenShackles
I only have one memory of it, him on a plane with some woman and mr.Hyde. I have no clue how much it really factored in but ppl like to talk about it like it happened often. It didn't happen often. Those people don't know what they're talking about. And Mindless Hulk engaged Mercy and Mr. Hyde on an airplane once. And he didn't revert to Savage Banner there. There wasn't even a Banner persona as it was in Franklin's pocket universe.

Originally posted by ODG
It didn't happen often. Those people don't know what they're talking about. And Mindless Hulk engaged Mercy and Mr. Hyde on an airplane once. And he didn't revert to Savage Banner there. There wasn't even a Banner persona as it was in Franklin's pocket universe.
Oh im totally wrong then. thanks for the correction.

Have you got a scan of the Bannerless Hulk universe-doorway thing?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Hmm? You want to battle zone that Superman isn't always stronger then Thor?

I'm not your biggest fan, but isn't that a loaded question for you?

I don't think Merged Hulk ever failed in a situation that Savage Hulk succeeded. He actually systematically outperformed him against similar opponents whenever he faced them. I don't think he has any high end feats like destroying the asteroid as Grey Hulk or punching through a time storm but we both know that those aren't necessary. I honestly don't remember any scene where he had trouble getting angry pre-Savage Banner. He did channel the power of the Reborn Universe and shit though as a high end feats IIRC.
No, that superman is always stronger than Thor. You claimed that Superman>Thor isn't always true.

Point me to the feat where he trashed someone like original abomination then. I wasn't talking about space-cheese, just character fights.

Thor one-shotted Abomination didn't he?

You two really should take Thor/Superman's strength to the BZ.

Originally posted by curryman
Thor one-shotted Abomination didn't he?

You two really should take Thor/Superman's strength to the BZ.
With a cheap shot.

Wouldn't that be a riot?

Originally posted by abhilegend
With a cheap shot.

Wouldn't that be a riot?

Yeah

You should.

Originally posted by abhilegend
No, that superman is always stronger than Thor. You claimed that Superman>Thor isn't always true.

Point me to the feat where he trashed someone like original abomination then. I wasn't talking about space-cheese, just character fights. That is a silly idea for a battlezone.

Originally posted by curryman
Yeah

You should.
It doesn't count then.

Maybe.

Originally posted by abhilegend
With a cheap shot.

Wouldn't that be a riot? That was not a cheap shot.

Originally posted by abhilegend
It doesn't count then.

Maybe. Youd lose.

Originally posted by abhilegend
It doesn't count then.

Maybe.

BZ it.

Originally posted by Golgo13
BZ it. he will back down like he always does.

Originally posted by abhilegend
No, that superman is always stronger than Thor. You claimed that Superman>Thor isn't always true.

Point me to the feat where he trashed someone like original abomination then. I wasn't talking about space-cheese, just character fights.

So you want to battle zone that Superman is always stronger then Thor? Alright sure, state your parameters. It isn't, are you on crack?

I'll PM Jon if he knows of anything specific and let you know. But like I said, Merged Hulk was consistently outperforming Savage Hulk against opponents. He might not have Savage Hulk's high end anger feats but I wasn't discussing Savage Hulk at his angriest, was I?

Lmao @ Rage challenging Abhi to like 3 separate Battle zones

Originally posted by dmills
Lmao @ Rage challenging Abhi to like 3 separate Battle zones I bet Abhi won't accept. I recommend rage makes a separate battlezone thread setting the parameters for this so he can't just weasel his way out of this.

Originally posted by Stoic
If anyone can recall, this version of Drax nearly choked the life out of the Surfer while using only brute strength.


I don't recall this ever happening. I remember Drax choking Firelord but not the Surfer. I think you have your facts mixed up here.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
So you want to battle zone that Superman is always stronger then Thor? Alright sure, state your parameters. It isn't, are you on crack?

I'll PM Jon if he knows of anything specific and let you know. But like I said, Merged Hulk was consistently outperforming Savage Hulk against opponents. He might not have Savage Hulk's high end anger feats but I wasn't discussing Savage Hulk at his angriest, was I?
We'll see then, wouldn't we? The parameters are that there would be no unquantifiable feats, ok?

I doubt he would see anything there which I haven't.

Rage create a temporary thread to hammer out the details.

Originally posted by Dampyre
I don't recall this ever happening. I remember Drax choking Firelord but not the Surfer. I think you have your facts mixed up here.
I think he is talking about when Thanos with IG made surfer Drax's enemy by tampering with his soul.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Rage create a temporary thread to hammer out the details.

Not yet, I don't think he understands what he's agreeing to. I know he's not very....reasonable when it comes to Superman but he has to realize that he's entering a battle zone with with the premise that Superman is always stronger then Thor.

Originally posted by abhilegend
We'll see then, wouldn't we? The parameters are that there would be no unquantifiable feats, ok?

I doubt he would see anything there which I haven't.

You do understand what you're agreeing to right? That this isn't Superman vs. Thor strength feats to see who has the best? Remember what I told you. Stop, and re-read this conversation very carefully. And what's unquantifiable? Anything without a specific number?

Alright then.

Waits to see how long till Abhilegend backs out of this.

Oh, god lol

Although any BZ would only happen when Curry's tourney is over.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Oh, god lol Look down from your post.

Make it a Hell in a Cell match.

Don't flame Abhi for wanting to finish this tourney before heading into a BZ match.

And Rage vs Abhi totally needs to happen, hopefully over something not as arbitrary as Superman's strength always being higher than Thor's (very weird way of phrasing it). If it happens then it should be something as simple as who is stronger.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Not yet, I don't think he understands what he's agreeing to. I know he's not very....reasonable when it comes to Superman but he has to realize that he's entering a battle zone with with the premise that Superman is always stronger then Thor.



You do understand what you're agreeing to right? That this isn't Superman vs. Thor strength feats to see who has the best? Remember what I told you. Stop, and re-read this conversation very carefully. And what's unquantifiable? Anything without a specific number?

Alright then.
What are you saying? It is the comparison of superman's best strength feats from 3 eras, byrne era. post death era and after Loeb to thor's strength feats. Do you agree? Or do you want to go comic by comic route? Good luck with that.

Anything that can't be quantified.

Originally posted by curryman
Don't flame Abhi for wanting to finish this tourney before heading into a BZ match.

And Rage vs Abhi totally needs to happen, hopefully over something not as arbitrary as Superman's strength always being higher than Thor's (very weird way of phrasing it). If it happens then it should be something as simple as who is stronger. Then they should commit to a starting date then after the tourney is over.

Originally posted by curryman
Don't flame Abhi for wanting to finish this tourney before heading into a BZ match.

And Rage vs Abhi totally needs to happen, hopefully over something not as arbitrary as Superman's strength always being higher than Thor's (very weird way of phrasing it). If it happens then it should be something as simple as who is stronger.
Even rage would admit superman is stronger than thor. There is no need for a BZ for that.

Originally posted by abhilegend
What are you saying? It is the comparison of superman's best strength feats from 3 eras, byrne era. post death era and after Loeb to thor's strength feats. Do you agree? Or do you want to go comic by comic route? Good luck with that.

Anything that can't be quantified. You still aren't grasping it.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Even rage would admit superman is stronger than thor. There is no need for a BZ for that.

And he would be right.

Originally posted by curryman
Don't flame Abhi for wanting to finish this tourney before heading into a BZ match.

And Rage vs Abhi totally needs to happen, hopefully over something not as arbitrary as Superman's strength always being higher than Thor's (very weird way of phrasing it). If it happens then it should be something as simple as who is stronger.

That's understandable, I don't care about that.

Yeah, but his battle zone challenge was in response to be saying that Superman is not automatically > Thor in every comic or whatever. Which is why I'm having such a fun time with it.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Even rage would admit superman is stronger than thor. There is no need for a BZ for that.
But if he's stronger than he's stronger.

I don't understand what kind of difference the two of you are seeing between being stronger and always being stronger.

Do you think that Thor would be stronger if the stars were aligned correctly?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
That's understandable, I don't care about that.

Yeah, but his battle zone challenge was in response to be saying that Superman is not automatically > Thor in every comic or whatever. Which is why I'm having such a fun time with it.
That'd be impossible to do. You want to compare every superman comic to every thor comic? Are you on crack bro?

I think Orion could beat Professor Hulk which I think is the one who beat Maestro up so I would say Orion wins this fight. Give him his weapons and it happens faster :3

Originally posted by abhilegend
What are you saying? It is the comparison of superman's best strength feats from 3 eras, byrne era. post death era and after Loeb to thor's strength feats. Do you agree? Or do you want to go comic by comic route? Good luck with that.

Anything that can't be quantified.

What? So you want to compare Superman's best strength feats from across three different era's to what, Thor's overall best?

You see, caveats like that is why we probably need to discuss this shit in depth. What do you mean anything that can't be quantified? I'm guessing any high end space cheese feats, anything with Mjolnir, and even something like Thor locking strength with someone? I'm also guessing anything with narration is automatically hyperbole?

Originally posted by abhilegend
That'd be impossible to do. You want to compare every superman comic to every thor comic? Are you on crack bro?

Why do you think I'm laughing? I wasn't sure whether you were trolling me or not taking it in. You need to carefully read what you challenged me in response to.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
That's understandable, I don't care about that.

Yeah, but his battle zone challenge was in response to be saying that Superman is not automatically > Thor in every comic or whatever. Which is why I'm having such a fun time with it. Its a lock. Abhi really don't even grasp it. He will back out.

Originally posted by curryman
But if he's stronger than he's stronger.

I don't understand what kind of difference the two of you are seeing between being stronger and always being stronger.

Do you think that Thor would be stronger if the stars were aligned correctly?
Rage is living in a dream land where thor is nearly as strong as superman in some comics.

He wants to compare every superman comic to every thor comic.

facepalm

Originally posted by Emi~Kiro
I think Orion could beat Professor Hulk which I think is the one who beat Maestro up so I would say Orion wins this fight. Give him his weapons and it happens faster :3 Context.

So it's trolling.

Baiting the rest of us into thinking you guys are gonna throw down.

Smh...

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
What? So you want to compare Superman's best strength feats from across three different era's to what, Thor's overall best?

You see, caveats like that is why we probably need to discuss this shit in depth. What do you mean anything that can't be quantified? I'm guessing any high end space cheese feats, anything with Mjolnir, and even something like Thor locking strength with someone? I'm also guessing anything with narration is automatically hyperbole?
I guess so.Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Why do you think I'm laughing? I wasn't sure whether you were trolling me or not taking it in. You need to carefully read what you challenged me in response to.
So you were just being you and a douche. Figures.

Originally posted by curryman
So it's trolling.

Baiting the rest of us into thinking you guys are gonna throw down.

Smh... Abhi backed down. Totally called it.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Context.
Sorry but your reply doesn't make sense

I think Superman has the strength edge on Thor. I don't think Superman is always stronger then Thor or automatically superior by virtue of having an overall edge based on comprehensive history. Somehow Abhil wanted to battle zone this stance.

Originally posted by curryman
So it's trolling.

Baiting the rest of us into thinking you guys are gonna throw down.

Smh...
Only rage was doing that. I was prepared to throw down.

Originally posted by abhilegend
I guess so.
So you were just being you and a douche. Figures.

What? I repeatedly asked you, repeatedly to clarify and grasp what you declared. I can quote myself if you like.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Only rage was doing that. I was prepared to throw down.
Calm down bro, you're like Marlo.

You're going to get baited into wasting your energy.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Only rage was doing that. I was prepared to throw down.

You don't even know what you wanted to debate. You just saw Thor vs. Superman and immediately wanted to battle zone me. Just charged in blindly.

It's not my fault I was enjoying myself at your expense.

Originally posted by Emi~Kiro
Sorry but your reply doesn't make sense Maestro is leaps and bounds greater than Prof. hulk.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Only rage was doing that. I was prepared to throw down. So you will still debate this ?

Rage is Omar and Abhi is Marlo.

T0K-tfJLiFE

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I think Superman has the strength edge on Thor. I don't think Superman is always stronger then Thor or automatically superior by virtue of having an overall edge based on comprehensive history. Somehow Abhil wanted to battle zone this stance.


Keep believing that bro. One day even you might believe that.

Originally posted by curryman
Rage is Omar and Abhi is Marlo.

T0K-tfJLiFE Rage owns Abhi.

Originally posted by Dampyre
I don't recall this ever happening. I remember Drax choking Firelord but not the Surfer. I think you have your facts mixed up here.


Nope he choked the Surfer first, and then several issues later he did the same thing to Firelord.

Originally posted by abhilegend


Keep believing that bro. One day even you might believe that. So are you or aren't you backing down ?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
You don't even know what you wanted to debate. You just saw Thor vs. Superman and immediately wanted to battle zone me. Just charged in blindly.

It's not my fault I was enjoying myself at your expense.
At least I wasn't begging to Galan to distinguish between Gog and Magog.

Originally posted by abhilegend
At least I wasn't begging to Galan to distinguish between Gog and Magog.





I didn't know something and asked for confirmation. I'd rather do that then make a proclamation or post something without knowing the facts and come out looking stupid like you do.

Speaks volumes though that you think asking a question about a topic that is unclear is something worthy of mockery......

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus


I didn't know something and asked for confirmation. I'd rather do that then make a proclamation or post something without knowing the facts and come out looking stupid like you do.

Speaks volumes though that you think asking a question about a topic that is unclear is something worthy of mockery......
Suuuuuuuuuuuuure. Whatever you say rage. You can't even read a comic without guidance apparently.

mmm

Not my fault you stick to the dumbest things like comparing every thor and superman comic.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Suuuuuuuuuuuuure. Whatever you say rage. You can't even read a comic without guidance apparently.

mmm

Not my fault you stick to the dumbest things like comparing every thor and superman comic.

Why go through an entire JSA run to figure out the state of a character when Galan can help me out? Seriously, this is what you're mocking me for, asking a question? God bro, I've seriously hurt you.

I didn't issue the battle zone challenge, you did. Unfortunately you didn't comprehend what you issued. Like I said, making yourself look foolish as a result of not thinking.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Why go through an entire JSA run to figure out the state of a character when Galan can help me out? Seriously, this is what you're mocking me for, asking a question? God bro, I've seriously hurt you.

I didn't issue the battle zone challenge, you did. Unfortunately you didn't comprehend what you issued. Like I said, making yourself look foolish as a result of not thinking.
It wasn't entire JSA run. It was just 4-5 issues at best to find out. Gog killed Matthews in JSA 15 and created Magog in JSA 18. The fact that you went to the lengths of reading Magog's fight to Power Girl in JSA 20 but couldn't read properly JSA 18 is worth every bit of mocking. Don't flatter yourself.

I made myself perfectly clear what parameters are. Not my fault you chose to ignore that. Also stop bashing.

Originally posted by abhilegend
The fact that you went to the lengths of reading Magog's fight to Power Girl in JSA 20 but couldn't read properly JSA 18 is worth every bit of mocking.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Also stop bashing.

Bro, he's a Superman fan. Like Superman and other characters, he can't be held to the same standards.

Originally posted by abhilegend
It wasn't entire JSA run. It was just 4-5 issues at best to find out. Gog killed Matthews in JSA 15 and created Magog in JSA 18. The fact that you went to the lengths of reading Magog's fight to Power Girl in JSA 20 but couldn't read properly JSA 18 is worth every bit of mocking. Don't flatter yourself.

I made myself perfectly clear what parameters are. Not my fault you chose to ignore that. Also stop bashing.

Yes, I understand what happened. I didn't finish reading JSA #18 (Is that the right issue) and only stumbled across the Power Girl/Magog fight, I don't understand what the problem is? I never declared myself all-knowing or master of all comic book knowledge. I asked Galan a question that I was unclear of. If you think that deserves mocking then you need to go jump off a bridge because you are constantly the butt of jokes and ridicule.

Yes, for a challenge that you declared without actually thinking things through.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank

Mocking=bashing now?

Pretty much, yeah.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Bro, he's a Superman fan. Like Superman and other characters, he can't be held to the same standards.



Yes, I understand what happened. I didn't finish reading JSA #18 (Is that the right issue) and only stumbled across the Power Girl/Magog fight, I don't understand what the problem is? I never declared myself all-knowing or master of all comic book knowledge. I asked Galan a question that I was unclear of. If you think that deserves mocking then you need to go jump off a bridge because you are constantly the butt of jokes and ridicule.

Yes, for a challenge that you declared without actually thinking things through.
I like how you're raging now because I mocked you a bit. Can't take a bit of a mocking? Lawlz.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Maestro is leaps and bounds greater than Prof. hulk.
Could Maestro do this?
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111116655/3041389-byebyedarkseid.png

Originally posted by abhilegend
I like how you're raging now because I mocked you a bit. Can't take a bit of a mocking? Lawlz.

Raging? Alright then. Sorry if I upset you.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Raging? Alright then. Sorry if I upset you.
With your raging? It amused me with "jumping off the bridge" and all that shit.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Mocking=bashing now?

Serious question?

Openly mocking and taunting someone would be in line with bashing, yeah lol.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Serious question?

Openly mocking and taunting someone would be in line with bashing, yeah lol.
Not that kind of mocking bro. Just a little jabbing.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Not that kind of mocking bro. Just a little jabbing.

Ah.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Serious question?

Openly mocking and taunting someone would be in line with bashing, yeah lol.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Suuuuuuuuuuuuure. Whatever you say rage. You can't even read a comic without guidance apparently.

mmm

Not my fault you stick to the dumbest things like comparing every thor and superman comic. So ironic. No one trusts anything you say at this point.

Originally posted by curryman
Pretty much, yeah.

Originally posted by curryman
Pretty much, yeah.

No different that posters mocking Abhi. Let's all be fair.

Originally posted by abhilegend
With your raging? It amused me with "jumping off the bridge" and all that shit.

Last word.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Last word.

Originally posted by Golgo13
No different that posters mocking Abhi. Let's all be fair. Relax.

Maestro

Since standard gear is on for Orion per OP, I'll side with Orion.

I say Maestro because he hates gods thus a early boost & he is Incredibly strong,fast and smart plus he fights dirty

Originally posted by Emi~Kiro
Could Maestro do this?
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111116655/3041389-byebyedarkseid.png


Maestro is a possible future of Bruce Banner after he'd walked to and fro over a war torn Earth that was saturated by radiation, which he sponged up over several decades, making him much stronger than any Hulk up until the point of that story.

In all likelihood, if Maestro were to be granted a "retcon", it would likely make him at his peak as great or greater than the World Breaker. After all he did have the ability to amp as his adrenaline increased. So as for your question, I believe that he would be able to do the same to Darkseid as illustrated in this scan that you provided.