Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg587/golgi7777/AW_zps718d3b27.jpg

vs

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg587/golgi7777/AR_zps89e52182.jpg

Soul gem ftw.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Soul gem ftw.

He wouldn't need the soul gem. He'd Rape Arion without it.

This would be like pitting Classic Strange or Classic Fate vs Shaman or Dr occult or Sargon. It's a complete freaking rolfstomp

I'm a Arion fanboy and he ISN'T ANYWHERE near Warlock's level.

^

Warlock is a really solid mid herald

Originally posted by pym-ftw
^

Warlock is a really solid mid herald

And Arion is not herald level AT ALL.

For over half of his solo series ( and his back ups in Warlord) he was not much over street level. In fact he became a master swordsman and H2H combatant because he was so often without any power.

He has maybe 4 or 5 feats that are even close to herald level and ALL of these are either amped by outside force, MEGGARLY prepped for, or he literally gave it EVERYTHING he had in a single attack and was then completely powerless for 3 to 5 issues ( having used up every bit of energy his star gem could hold).

Originally posted by beatboks
He wouldn't need the soul gem. He'd Rape Arion without it.

This would be like pitting Classic Strange or Classic Fate vs Shaman or Dr occult or Sargon. It's a complete freaking rolfstomp

I'm a Arion fanboy and he ISN'T ANYWHERE near Warlock's level. Do you really think Warlock rapes without the soul gem ?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Do you really think Warlock rapes without the soul gem ?

I'll put it this way.

early issues of Arion have him fighting an enemy of Atlantis who use aircraft. He beats some of these and helps drives others back.

He then falls to his brother who made him use too much energy in an assault and chains him in a cave away from light ( light being the source of his power stored in the red gem on his chest). He tries to free himslef from the chains ( which are made from a metal immune to magic) draining his last vestages. Courtesy of his father ( an Atlantian god) moving a star closer too him he is repowered to a level he had never had before. he then reaches out and absorbs more light from every star in the heavens ( one of the 5 feats) and defeats his brother, but at the cost of his fathers life.

A couple of issues later he comes across a citadel where an entity is absorbing all the energy of the sun ( cause of the current Ice Age). He destroys that entity but uses again every bit of energy he had to do so.

For the next few issues he is completely powerless on a quest to find a new source of magic. All he has is a sixth sense and very very mild TP ( part of his learnings). BY the fourth or 5th issue after that he finally had enough energy to be able to create minor illusions.

At this point he get's back to his father palace in Atlantis and get's some candles ( or sticks ) that each contain a part of his fathers essence. He can use these to draw on a little of his fathers magic but only one spell at a a time. uses these IIRC to defeat his brother again.

Another quest this time takes him into the bowels of he earth and the darkworld to find his fathers magic citadel and source of it's power. he brings the citadel back to Atlantis where again his brother is ruling and again uses ALL it's power to defeat him ( high end feat 3).

Then another quest this time into his fathers books ( buries himself in his fathers castle and library). Eventually calling on the weaver to tie magic to his soul again.

he looses the power once more right in time to face his mother Dark majestra. The weaver owing a debt to a goddess who apposes Majestra again links magic to Arion who while he is in his mothers dimension ( and has a hereditary link to it's power) uses it to defeat her ( high end feat 4).

Standard powers are blasts, force fields, flight, intangibility, illusions, mild TP ( these last two he uses when depowered for that other half of the series) and control of elements ( wind earth etc). In one of the last issues of his title he senses a threat that he says " has power to match his own" which turns out to be a space ship.

The other high end feat is when he faced a chaos god while another god of light near by unknown to him was feeding him power.

Yeah he get's raped.

Originally posted by beatboks
I'll put it this way.

early issues of Arion have him fighting an enemy of Atlantis who use aircraft. He beats some of these and helps drives others back.

He then falls to his brother who made him use too much energy in an assault and chains him in a cave away from light ( light being the source of his power stored in the red gem on his chest). He tries to free himslef from the chains ( which are made from a metal immune to magic) draining his last vestages. Courtesy of his father ( an Atlantian god) moving a star closer too him he is repowered to a level he had never had before. he then reaches out and absorbs more light from every star in the heavens ( one of the 5 feats) and defeats his brother, but at the cost of his fathers life.

A couple of issues later he comes across a citadel where an entity is absorbing all the energy of the sun ( cause of the current Ice Age). He destroys that entity but uses again every bit of energy he had to do so.

For the next few issues he is completely powerless on a quest to find a new source of magic. All he has is a sixth sense and very very mild TP ( part of his learnings). BY the fourth or 5th issue after that he finally had enough energy to be able to create minor illusions.

At this point he get's back to his father palace in Atlantis and get's some candles ( or sticks ) that each contain a part of his fathers essence. He can use these to draw on a little of his fathers magic but only one spell at a a time. uses these IIRC to defeat his brother again.

Another quest this time takes him into the bowels of he earth and the darkworld to find his fathers magic citadel and source of it's power. he brings the citadel back to Atlantis where again his brother is ruling and again uses ALL it's power to defeat him ( high end feat 3).

Then another quest this time into his fathers books ( buries himself in his fathers castle and library). Eventually calling on the weaver to tie magic to his soul again.

he looses the power once more right in time to face his mother Dark majestra. The weaver owing a debt to a goddess who apposes Majestra again links magic to Arion who while he is in his mothers dimension ( and has a hereditary link to it's power) uses it to defeat her ( high end feat 4).

Standard powers are blasts, force fields, flight, intangibility, illusions, mild TP ( these last two he uses when depowered for that other half of the series) and control of elements ( wind earth etc). In one of the last issues of his title he senses a threat that he says " has power to match his own" which turns out to be a space ship.

The other high end feat is when he faced a chaos god while another god of light near by unknown to him was feeding him power.

Yeah he get's raped. You tend to ramble on. I agree Warlock wins but just don't see it as rape.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You tend to ramble on. I agree Warlock wins but just don't see it as rape.

Simplified
Warlock mid to high Herald level.
Arion mid to high meta level

If that's not rape WTF is???

Originally posted by beatboks
Simplified
Warlock mid to high Herald level.
Arion mid to high meta level

If that's not rape WTF is??? I don't subscribe to categories for the most part.

he has to focus and strain to mentally probe a device

http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/arion30-23.jpg.html?sort=3&o=24

A lousy space ship from 5000 years ago has "power to match his own

http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/arionseesthedangerhesensedpagesago.jpg.html?sort=3&o=14

here he fights a minion of a dimensional entity a fraction the power of the likes of Mephisto ( who Warlock has defeated) and not only can't he harm him is easliy taken out

http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/arion32-23.jpg.html?sort=3&o=19

They are NO WHERE near the same league

Originally posted by beatboks
he has to focus and strain to mentally probe a device

http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/arion30-23.jpg.html?sort=3&o=24

A lousy space ship from 5000 years ago has "power to match his own

http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/arionseesthedangerhesensedpagesago.jpg.html?sort=3&o=14

here he fights a minion of a dimensional entity a fraction the power of the likes of Mephisto ( who Warlock has defeated) and not only can't he harm him is easliy taken out

http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/arion32-23.jpg.html?sort=3&o=19

They are NO WHERE near the same league I don't see the gap as far apart as you do.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I don't see the gap as far apart as you do.

for around 60 to 70% of his published stories all Arion can do is create illusions and sense danger. he fights more with a sword than he does with magic and uses hand to hand almost as much as magic. The only way he can match Warlocks average level feats is to commit every ounce of energy he has on some gamble that if it fails he has no power left to do anything and you don't think it's a large difference.

what would you call a big difference. cause from my standpoint the gaps about as big as Superman to Luke Cage

Originally posted by beatboks
for around 60 to 70% of his published stories all Arion can do is create illusions and sense danger. he fights more with a sword than he does with magic and uses hand to hand almost as much as magic. The only way he can match Warlocks average level feats is to commit every ounce of energy he has on some gamble that if it fails he has no power left to do anything and you don't think it's a large difference.

what would you call a big difference. cause from my standpoint the gaps about as big as Superman to Luke Cage You are ignoring his recent portrayal to sell your spite stomp case.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You are ignoring his recent portrayal to sell your spite stomp case. what recent portrayal. AFAIK he hasnt been in print since the early 90's. Warlord, his solo run, Immortal Arion mini( mostly crap - a bit contrary to anything else) tales of PG post COIE early where he did nothing, and a few early post Crisi action issues and WW ( in which he was possessed and controlled like a pupet by morgan Le Fey and powered by her)

Warlock with all of his powers strained to destroy a house once. Low showings are there for everybody.

Originally posted by beatboks
what recent portrayal. AFAIK he hasnt been in print since the early 90's. Warlord, his solo run, Immortal Arion mini( mostly crap - a bit contrary to anything else) tales of PG post COIE early where he did nothing, and a few early post Crisi action issues and WW ( in which he was possessed and controlled like a pupet by morgan Le Fey and powered by her)
You forgot his appearances in Superman.

His appearances in Aquaman could also be used to help the argument, though he wasn't as uber in that as he was in Superman, iirc.

Originally posted by beatboks
what recent portrayal. AFAIK he hasnt been in print since the early 90's. Warlord, his solo run, Immortal Arion mini( mostly crap - a bit contrary to anything else) tales of PG post COIE early where he did nothing, and a few early post Crisi action issues and WW ( in which he was possessed and controlled like a pupet by morgan Le Fey and powered by her) You are ignoring his recent showings. I agree Warlock wins.

Originally posted by abhilegend
You forgot his appearances in Superman.


What an awesome arc that was.

It was decent though the only reason he was even a threat to Clark was the magic weakness

Originally posted by abhilegend
You forgot his appearances in Superman.

and again I ask what appearances. the only cross overs with Superman I know of were in Action back in the late 80's early 90's. it was IIRC a story where the two time periods crossed and Arion did Jack to Clark.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
It was decent though the only reason he was even a threat to Clark was the magic weakness But he was beyond Superman who needed protections to take Arion on.

Only because he had a wind spell enchanted to cut through anything or something like that, you know Clark is weak against that kind of stuff.

Originally posted by beatboks
and again I ask what appearances. the only cross overs with Superman I know of were in Action back in the late 80's early 90's. it was IIRC a story where the two time periods crossed and Arion did Jack to Clark.

Superman: Camelot Falls story arc.

http://www.amazon.com/Superman-Camelot-Falls-Vol-2/dp/1401218652

His feats in the arc, depowered.

^ None of those links work.

Complete respect thread.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f98/t492197.html

that respect thread is riddled with out of context scans most of which aren't Arions own power level. now if we were talking about Arion when he's been amped by Mordru, Morgan Le Few, Dark lords, his father, or drawing on the power of his birthrights ( his mothers dimension or his fathers citadel There would be a case for him making a go of it. If you allow that then give Warlock IG he has that as often as Arion has those things.

You never said Arion amped by ## you said Arion and he can' come close to Warlock unless he has someone else backing him IMO

Originally posted by beatboks
that respect thread is riddled with out of context scans most of which aren't Arions own power level. now if we were talking about Arion when he's been amped by Mordru, Morgan Le Few, Dark lords, his father, or drawing on the power of his birthrights ( his mothers dimension or his fathers citadel There would be a case for him making a go of it. If you allow that then give Warlock IG he has that as often as Arion has those things.

You never said Arion amped by ## you said Arion and he can' come close to Warlock unless he has someone else backing him IMO
He explicitly said that the artifacts that powered him were powering him to just a portion of his full power and he was unaccustomed to the tenth age of magic even further weakening him.

Originally posted by abhilegend
He explicitly said that the artifacts that powered him were powering him to just a portion of his full power and he was unaccustomed to the tenth age of magic even further weakening him.

if that were the case how come because the showings under his own power that even match that, let alone exceed??

I would say the only better showing he has is in Wonder Woman where he fights her, Phantom Stranger and Etrigan. that was under Morgan Le Fray's control and being amped by her. the moment she lost her connection to him An average attack by Etrigan took him down in an instant where he had withstood their combined attacks before.

I'm just heading home from Work, I'll link some scans of his normal showing in a couple of hrs. the. tell me that statement isn't complete PIS or just poor writing

Originally posted by beatboks
if that were the case how come because the showings under his own power that even match that, let alone exceed??

I would say the only better showing he has is in Wonder Woman where he fights her, Phantom Stranger and Etrigan. that was under Morgan Le Fray's control and being amped by her. the moment she lost her connection to him An average attack by Etrigan took him down in an instant where he had withstood their combined attacks before.

I'm just heading home from Work, I'll link some scans of his normal showing in a couple of hrs. the. tell me that statement isn't complete PIS or just poor writing
I don't know. You are the expert on him, you tell me.

Originally posted by abhilegend
I don't know. You are the expert on him, you tell me.

OK here is a little Arion in action
First Arion the Warrior

Learning mastering H2H combat
http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/arionwarrior2.jpg.html?sort=3&o=13

Learning the sword
http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/Arionssecondswordlesson1.jpg.html?sort=3&o=1

http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/Arionssecondswordlesson.jpg.html?sort=3&o=5

An Accomplished swordsman after only a few lessons. Not far of master.
http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/arionbecomesalmostmasteroftheswordinonelesson.jpg.html?sort=3&o=18

Sword fighting
http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/arionlisalsoawarrior.jpg.html?sort=3&o=10

Even when he fights mystically it's often with a sword as back up
http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-2182015

Fighting with inner sight when blinded

http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/evendepoweredaftertraininghecoulduseinnesight.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

Yeah he's so powerful he has to master mortal combat to survive in a world of mostly backwards nomadic races ( Atlantean being the exception, and they're on his side)

Senses
http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-2182009

http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/arionsensingdangerbeforeithappens.jpg.html?sort=3&o=9

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-2184794


Quests to regain power. He looses his power so often the plot is somewhat over played. t's usually because his character is such that he will give everything for the win

http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/arionlordofatlantis31_22.jpg.html?sort=3&o=8

Illusions

Here we see Arion in one of his many drained states. The ship he is on is being attacked by Pirates. All he can do is ( with great effort) create an illusion to scare them away.
http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/DepoweredArionmagicbywill.jpg.html?sort=3&o=3


High end self powered Arion

While captured his Brother garn reminds him of his first life, and what he had cost him. Arion to save Earth Sacrificed himself to prevent his mother from taking control of much of earth's magic in a battle with his father. The result was hi demise. the only thing that saved him was his father bonding his soul to a star where he stayed for centuries.

http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/ArionLordofAtlantis4-Page17.jpg.html?sort=3&o=15

http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/ArionLordofAtlantis4-Page15.jpg.html?sort=3&o=17

Unable to defend himself from a simple electrical feedback after linking with technological equipment.
http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/arion30-23.jpg.html?sort=3&o=24

http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/arion30-24.jpg.html?sort=3&o=21

Battle with demon Chaon ( one of several that he never won) cant even make his spells hit ( easily directed away) and then tries to attack a dark lord with Darkness that his enemy only uses to get away.
http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/arion01-21.jpg.html?sort=3&o=27
http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/arion01-22.jpg.html?sort=3&o=25

Here are a few scans of Arion at the PEAK of his powers when using only his own energy

Battling his brother his shields couldn't even defend against him to the point he was burried under rubble
http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/arionTakespowefulblasts.jpg.html?sort=3&o=12

Battling an invasion force ( only a small part of the battle much being done by Atlantis' warriors and tech)
http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/arion_sensedager.jpg.html?sort=3&o=4

In that very same battle he is not the match in the air for tribesman on dragons who are used to air combat.
http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/arionsshieldssendattacksbackatattackers.jpg.html?sort=3&o=7

control elements and TP ( note this is the only time he ever attempted to TP attack and only against "primitives". Not that we got to see how that went he never followed through his attention was immediately drawn here
http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/arionseesthedangerhesensedpagesago.jpg.html?sort=3&o=14
To a space ship from the DC universe about 5000 yers ago who's power was "rival to his own".

With power returned hi most often used spell to devine knowledge
http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/arion30-13.jpg.html?sort=3&o=26
Battling a low level dimensional being in the dimension of both his mother and his fathers power. he still looses where he should be strongest. Even fed by outside power sources he is no match for beings that those who Warlock have defeated would laugh at.
http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-2177769

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-2177768

http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/arion32-23.jpg.html?sort=3&o=19
The result of which was
http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/arion32-24.jpg.html?sort=3&o=20
Served up to his mother on a plate, bled dry ( yet again of magical energy) with nothing left to use to fight or defend himself with.

Again controlling elements ( this time earth) hurling it at a demon with little to no effect
http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/arion01-34.jpg.html?sort=3&o=23

one of his absolute peak feat under his own power is to try and save a few dozen Atlantian's when the city is under attack. With great strain he lifts civilians out from 6 areas of the city leaving himself completely open to attack.
http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/beatboks01/media/arion01-39.jpg.html?sort=3&o=22

The other one was when he destroyed the dark lord who was absorbing all teh suns energy killing it. To do this he literally had to give EVERY ounce of power within him. So much so it was at least 4 issues before he could even conjour an illusion
http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-2177783
http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-2177784

These scans come from 18 of his 35 issue run ( and almost every one of his best feats from that run are here). In Warlord he had nothing better either as with his appearances in his mini's and Powergirl or Aquaman. I've already mentioned his appearances in WW and the context. Almost everywhere else that he's appeared ( other than the Superman issues and action) have been nothing but cameo's.

AMPED feats
The only feats he has above this are all with amps like
http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-2182044
here he was completely powerless. he had used most of his energy before his brother KO'd him in battle. he then chained him in metal magic cannot effect and put him in a hole away from light ( his energy source) he used teh alst of his energy trying to break free. his father moved a star in the heavens to much closer which repowered. That level of power ( never had before or after ) allowed him to do

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-2182043
http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-2182042

Not something he can do without aid, beyond the amount of energy he can normally gather or use.

Here he fights a dark lord being fed power by a nearby lord of light without his knowledge
http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-2179262

Here he fights his mother Dark Majestra in her realm. He has been empowered by the weaver ( who weaves the many colored threads an ancient source of magic)
http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-2177776
He does destroy her but only after the amp and was almost destroyed by her ( in fact her servants ) before ( the scans of whihc I loaded somewhere a shadow looking entity that KO's him in the end and leaves him in his mothers hands)

PLEASE tell me WHEN he ever demonstrated power that could even put him near to doing what he did to Superman if only under his own power.

In short the Superman statement that it was a "fraction" of his power without the power fed him was either blustering or VERY bad writing.