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Heart Of The Monster Hulk

VS

Pre-Crisis Validus

SLUGFEST

Vote!

This is less of a slugfest and more of a fly swatting

Originally posted by Endless Mike
This is less of a slugfest and more of a fly swatting this

Originally posted by Endless Mike
This is less of a slugfest and more of a fly swatting

Originally posted by Endless Mike
This is less of a slugfest and more of a fly swatting


So true.

I agree, Hulk easily dismisses Validus.

Originally posted by NemeBro
I agree, Hulk easily dismisses Validus.

LIES!

WBH makes Abhi cry.

Wow, aren't you cute?

Originally posted by janus77
WBH makes Abhi cry.

I'd say manhandling beings that can tow around galaxies and punch out materials that survive in the Big Bang beats anything Hulk has done ever.

Give him the Dark Cosmos feat even and he might manage to make Validus use a bit of effort, but that's all.

PC Validus still wins but it's a good fight, SA Mangog is PC Validus match and superior if we take abilities and powers into account IMO.

And Mangog would kill WBH as well

Val wins.

Pre-crisis Superboy was strong enough to effortlessly tow 13 planets(that I could count) behind him. Not only that, but he towed those planets a ridiculously vast distance(across the fuking universe) in a short amount of time:


Despite possessing that level of strength, Superboy himself states Validus is "a dozen" times more powerful than himself:


Validus demonstrates said superiority by stomping Superboy(literally) like fodder:

Hell, Superboy almost KO'd himself just by running into Val.

Even more impressive still, is the fact that Validus was capable of casually overpowering PC Mon-El with two fingers:

^ Superboy towing planets effortlessly in one scene, then nearly knocking himself out by shoulder-tackling with the power of 1,000 h-bombs. Makes sense.

Technically an H-bomb could have an arbitrarily large yield, depending on the reactant used. In the Lobo series for example there was an alien nuclear reactor that blew up a planet.

Originally posted by ODG
^ Superboy towing planets effortlessly in one scene, then nearly knocking himself out by shoulder-tackling with the power of 1,000 h-bombs. Makes sense. No more inconsistent than the sum total of a Guardian's power being equated to a dozen hurricanes. Or Superman being incapacitated by a force equal to a million nuclear blasts, despite having survived supernovas beforehand. Or Zoom getting hit/KOd by a rock thrown by Power Girl. Or Superman singing Darkseid away. Or Doom out-thinking Reed. Etc. Etc. Etc. Inconsistencies happen all the time in comics. It's nothing new.

The point is that we know what PC Superboy and Mon-El were capable of-- yet we know that PC Val was far stronger than either of them.

Besides, like I said, it's not even necessarily inconsistent, since the yield was never specified. Besides, the Legion of Superheroes takes place 1000 years in the future, where their nukes are bound to be a lot more powerful than the ones we have now.

@Galan. perhaps, but then it becomes faulty to use superboy in a portrayal where he was powerful enough to tow solar systems worth of planets as a basis for displaying Validus' strength when in his actual battle against Validus he was getting rocked by the power of a 1000 h bombs...
Moroever the reference to an hbomb is clearly an attempt to estimate power using a reference point the reader will be familiar with. It has absolutely nothing to do with future bombs and there is absolutely no room for speculation about the bomb yield being greater than normal. There isn't even any bomb in the scene in question.

Again, the yield of the bombs was never stated.

Originally posted by Naija boy
@Galan. perhaps, but then it becomes faulty to use superboy in a portrayal where he was powerful enough to tow solar systems worth of planets as a basis for displaying Validus' strength when in his actual battle against Validus he was getting rocked by the power of a 1000 h bombs...
Moroever the reference to an hbomb is clearly an attempt to estimate power using a reference point the reader will be familiar with. It has absolutely nothing to do with future bombs and there is absolutely no room for speculation about the bomb yield being greater than normal. There isn't even any bomb in the scene in question. Okay, then use PC Mon-El. He was also able to toss planets around without effort, and was always portrayed as Superboy's equal in the strength department-- in fact, Superboy once stated that Mon-El was even stronger than he was.

Val completely overpowered him with 2 fingers.

Its a trope of Silver Age. Nukes may be nothing in today's comics when every-phucking-body has tanked it one day or another but then it was a big deal since writers weren't as scientifically aware back then. You are talking about the writer who invented super-karate FFS!

Or... we could simply use the fact that the yields of the bombs were never stated, and in DC nuclear devices have been shown that far exceed the power of everything IRL.

Stop ignoring me!

The narrator was using the H bomb as a descriptive device and giving the reader a familiar reference point to estimate to the reader the type of power involved. Hence the only reasonable thought process is that he was referring to hbombs within the typical yield range they were on earth. Not non existent advanced future space hbombs or other unspecified nuclear devices which would serve no descriptive purposes....heck there isn't even an actual bomb in the scene

Originally posted by abhilegend
Its a trope of Silver Age. Nukes may be nothing in today's comics when every-phucking-body has tanked it one day or another but then it was a big deal since writers weren't as scientifically aware back then. You are talking about the writer who invented super-karate FFS! Yeah, the comic was published in 1967. Back then, the power of 1,000 RL h-bombs was "holy shit!" worthy... Not to mention that the writers of that era bordered on retarded. Truly.

Anyway, even though I don't think a showing of 'low' durability diminishes any of Superboy's strength feats, there's still Val's effortless handling of Mon-El with 2 fingers to consider. If anyone honestly believes that WBH is strong enough to completely overpower/subdue PC Mon-El with a single hand, then I'd honestly be shocked.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Or... we could simply use the fact that the yields of the bombs were never stated, and in DC nuclear devices have been shown that far exceed the power of everything IRL.

Stop ignoring me!
That is entirely possible. Shooter also wrote a scene where a H-bomb was threatening a whole planet!

Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah, the comic was published in 1967. Back then, the power of 1,000 RL h-bombs was "holy shit!" worthy... Not to mention that the writers of that era bordered on retarded. Truly.

Anyway, even though I don't think a showing of 'low' durability diminishes any of Superboy's strength feats, there's still Val's effortless handling of Mon-El with 2 fingers to consider. If anyone honestly believes that WBH is strong enough to completely overpower/subdue PC Mon-El with a single hand, then I'd honestly be shocked.


It doesn't diminish any of superboy's feats. Under Shooter he was tanking solar system destroying blasts like absolutely nothing. If we truly want to go by pure feats, superboy was beating superman in one comic and superman tanked the freaking big bang itself.

Not to mention he didn't even register Mon-el going all out on him who thought his girlfriend shadow lass was killed by her. It took Superboy, Mon-el and Ultra-boy to just topple him and they did it by a weak point. Then there was that fight with sun-eater who was destroying galaxies and Validus made it retreat.

Originally posted by Galan007
Okay, then use PC Mon-El. He was also able to toss planets around without effort, and was always portrayed as Superboy's equal in the strength department-- in fact, Superboy once stated that Mon-El was even stronger than he was.

Val completely overpowered him with 2 fingers.

Fair enough. I don't care enough for the stories in that era to argue otherwise. Just pointing out a rather humorous inconsistency.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Then there was that fight with sun-eater who was destroying galaxies and Validus made it retreat. He did that with a mixture of physicality and Mental Lightning, though, so I didn't mention it in this thread, because it is purely a slugfest(ie. no Mental Lightning allowed.)

Originally posted by Naija boy
Fair enough. I don't care enough for the stories in that era to argue otherwise. Just pointing out a rather humorous inconsistency. Inconsistency literally defines the pre-crisis era.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Fair enough. I don't care enough for the stories in that era to argue otherwise. Just pointing out a rather humorous inconsistency. Nice job pointing out how this is ignored whereas the towing planets isn't.

Originally posted by Galan007
Okay, then use PC Mon-El. He was also able to toss planets around without effort, and was always portrayed as Superboy's equal in the strength department-- in fact, Superboy once stated that Mon-El was even stronger than he was.

Val completely overpowered him with 2 fingers.

like it was nothing.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Nice job pointing out how this is ignored whereas the towing planets isn't.

Except that's a feat that actually happened, not an unquantified panel of narration.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Except that's a feat that actually happened, not an unquantified panel of narration.
Its not even in top 10 of his best feats in strength.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Except that's a feat that actually happened, not an unquantified panel of narration. Both happened and both are descriptive. We can't know what power is there unless the narration tells us.

Nope because the narration is vague and doesn't give any specific yield, whereas the planets is something we can directly observe happening.

Actual on-panel feats > Narration/WoG > Plausible/supported character statements > Implausible/unsupported character statements > Speculation.

That's how the hierarchy of evidence works.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Nope because the narration is vague and doesn't give any specific yield, whereas the planets is something we can directly observe happening.

Actual on-panel feats > Narration/WoG > Plausible/supported character statements > Implausible/unsupported character statements > Speculation.

That's how the hierarchy of evidence works. Narration about the power being used is the only way to convey the power. Undeniable.

No, you're wrong. I don't care how you view evidence on naruto.

Sorry but that's the way it works, we've hammered this out over years of debating.

Prolly Validus.

Owning PC Superboy and PC Mon-El should be gud indication of how strong he was.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Sorry but that's the way it works, we've hammered this out over years of debating. No, as I said the only way to know how powerful is through narration.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, as I said the only way to know how powerful is through narration.

So that would mean that between Marvel and DC there's about 500 "most powerful guy on Earth" types at any given moment.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Both happened and both are descriptive. We can't know what power is there unless the narration tells us.

Here is some narration that may be more germane to the topic.

And the last thing the Worldbreaker saw were 3 fingers of death!

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Here is some narration that may be more germane to the topic.

And the last thing the Worldbreaker saw were 3 fingers of death! I doubt it.

Narration doesn't trump on-panel feats. When Thing punches Namor out of the water and the narration says he hits as hard as a truck going 50 mph, that doesn't make all of Thing's strength feats invalid.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Narration doesn't trump on-panel feats. When Thing punches Namor out of the water and the narration says he hits as hard as a truck going 50 mph, that doesn't make all of Thing's strength feats invalid.

Wait, you've never seen a car crash launch someone into the atmosphere?

I hear if they get up to 88 mph they can punch a hole through time itself.

phuck validus. phuck dc pre crisis. phuck people who actually rep these overpowered douches

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Narration doesn't trump on-panel feats. When Thing punches Namor out of the water and the narration says he hits as hard as a truck going 50 mph, that doesn't make all of Thing's strength feats invalid. They are both true. Things don't need to make sense in fiction. You don't ignore narration.

Originally posted by Raisen
phuck validus. phuck dc pre crisis. phuck people who actually rep these overpowered douches

So, you're more of a street level type of guy?

Originally posted by Endless Mike
I hear if they get up to 88 mph they can punch a hole through time itself.

I gotta get me one of those

Originally posted by quanchi112
I doubt it.

Who are YOU to doubt the power of the 3 fingers of death?

Look at the fingers.

LOOK AT THEM!

http://thefwoosh.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/validus-hands.jpg

The Worldbreaker DIES!

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Who are YOU to doubt the power of the 3 fingers of death?

Look at the fingers.

LOOK AT THEM!

http://thefwoosh.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/validus-hands.jpg

The Worldbreaker DIES! His fingers are broken. Hulk wins. Five >>>three.

Originally posted by quanchi112
They are both true. Things don't need to make sense in fiction. You don't ignore narration.

You do when it's unquantified and contradicts actual showings. Besides, I can show you narration saying that PC Supergirl could easily pulverize half a galaxy.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
You do when it's unquantified and contradicts actual showings. Besides, I can show you narration saying that PC Supergirl could easily pulverize half a galaxy. Writers and fiction is inconsistent all the time. It's hilarious when people try to make it all make sense. It doesn't. It never will. Accept it all. You picking and choosing is bias.

PC Validus wins what so hard to understand that

Quanchi is biased and projecting, that's what

validus, with Ease

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Quanchi is biased and projecting, that's what You are picking and choosing, biased.

Validus.

Validus

It's called a hierarchy of evidence. On-panel feats override narration captions, especially when the former are consistent and the latter are unquantified.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
It's called a hierarchy of evidence. On-panel feats override narration captions, especially when the former are consistent and the latter are unquantified.

Nope it's like a real-world court.

A witness says you were at the scene of the crime. DNA evidence proves it wasn't you and you have a legit alibi.

Both must be true, you guilty son of a *****.