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http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj172/galan007_pics/jsagog_god6.jpg

vs

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg587/golgi7777/SERP_zps2da054fb.jpg

Gog seemed more impressive despite getting his knee cap busted by citizen steel, serpent's only impressive thing was breaking caps shield and his heralds.. Other than that he was fing fang foom for a couple of minutes then got shanked to death.

^ By the Odinsword, yes. Not exactly a bad showing.

The Serpent

Serpent, hard.

Originally posted by SevenShackles
Gog seemed more impressive despite getting his knee cap busted by citizen steel, serpent's only impressive thing was breaking caps shield and his heralds.. Other than that he was fing fang foom for a couple of minutes then got shanked to death.

If we learned one thing from that arc is that you don't mess with Steel. Gog steps on Serpent.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Gog steps on Serpent.


Serpent and that entire event was fail of the highest order.

Neither really did much but stand around and create Heralds but the Serpent had far more hype (Had all the Hell Lords pissing their pants at his coming) and created the Worthy with a wave of his hand.

And Gog is apparently not able to do much if his head is separated from the ground/his body so the Serpent breaks him.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
And Gog is apparently not able to do much if his head is separated from the ground/his body so the Serpent breaks him.

That's a big "if".

Remember, it was Gog's power that was used against him to decapitate him (via the staff wielded by Gog the herald). Whether or not someone like the Serpent can replicate that is up in the air. On panel, the Serpent did absolutely nothing to place him above low trans, IMO.

The fact that Thunderbolt wasn't able to incapacitate Gog on his own speaks volumes, imo.

Originally posted by zopzop


Serpent and that entire event was fail of the highest order. How well you enjoyed an arc isn't a debating factor.

Originally posted by Galan007
The fact that Thunderbolt wasn't able to incapacitate Gog on his own speaks volumes, imo.

Originally posted by Cogito
That's a big "if".

Remember, it was Gog's power that was used against him to decapitate him (via the staff wielded by Gog the herald). Whether or not someone like the Serpent can replicate that is up in the air. On panel, the Serpent did absolutely nothing to place him above low trans, IMO. This statement is almost offensive. Low Trans characters generally don't create seven Thor-level characters, or enslave Midgard, or manipulate fear on a global scale, or require the Odinsword to defeat them. Low Trans characters definitely can't shatter Cap's shield like a tortilla.

Originally posted by Galan007
The fact that Thunderbolt wasn't able to incapacitate Gog on his own speaks volumes, imo.

You see, this is the problem with the JSA. They are too powerful of a team. The Imp should rightfully own Gog and be more powerful then the entire JSA combined but all it did was....blast Gog. And even then, other members were more effective in that regard.

The Imp was present when Black Adam was raping their faces and was also similarly ineffective. Tbh, the Imp might as well be Monica Rambeau sometimes.

I'm not trying to be difficult, it just pisses me off. Probably because I'm a Thor fan and I hate to see a character job while on a team.

Originally posted by Cogito
That's a big "if".

Remember, it was Gog's power that was used against him to decapitate him (via the staff wielded by Gog the herald). Whether or not someone like the Serpent can replicate that is up in the air. On panel, the Serpent did absolutely nothing to place him above low trans, IMO.

I'm confused as to why you think that changes anything? Does Gog have some sort of weakness to his own power? And we saw Steel knock him over. Damage or whatever his name did significant damage to his armor as well IIRC. So while it's tough, hardly unbreakable.

Low trans? Lol.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
You see, this is the problem with the JSA. They are too powerful of a team. The Imp should rightfully own Gog and be more powerful then the entire JSA combined but all it did was....blast Gog. And even then, other members were more effective in that regard.

The Imp was present when Black Adam was raping their faces and was also similarly ineffective. Tbh, the Imp might as well be Monica Rambeau sometimes.

I'm not trying to be difficult, it just pisses me off. Probably because I'm a Thor fan and I hate to see a character job while on a team. The thing about T-bolt is that he can't do jack shit unless Jakeem orders him to. That's how DC limits his power.

Lol, phuckin Thorbags.

Originally posted by quanchi112
How well you enjoyed an arc isn't a debating factor.
I know but the Serpent still loses.

Gog wins.Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
You see, this is the problem with the JSA. They are too powerful of a team. The Imp should rightfully own Gog and be more powerful then the entire JSA combined but all it did was....blast Gog. And even then, other members were more effective in that regard.

The Imp was present when Black Adam was raping their faces and was also similarly ineffective. Tbh, the Imp might as well be Monica Rambeau sometimes.

I'm not trying to be difficult, it just pisses me off. Probably because I'm a Thor fan and I hate to see a character job while on a team.



I'm confused as to why you think that changes anything? Does Gog have some sort of weakness to his own power? And we saw Steel knock him over. Damage or whatever his name did significant damage to his armor as well IIRC. So while it's tough, hardly unbreakable.

Low trans? Lol.
Thunderbolt being in-effective on Gog can't mean that Gog is just that poerful, right?

Originally posted by Galan007
The thing about T-bolt is that he can't do jack shit unless Jakeem orders him to. That's how DC limits his power.

Lol, phuckin Thorbags.

Meh, just depower the Thunderbolt. Otherwise Jakeem looks like a retard.

Was reading through the collection randomly and Kingdom Come Superman took on the JSA too. facepalm If I see the team trying to physically tackle one more person...

We're the best type of fan and you know it.

I didn't care for Fear Itself.

But Serpent's hype was phucking ridiculous high. And the stuff he actually did on panel (creating Thor-ish level beings, forcing Odin to ravage an entire world and be willing to do so again just to stop him, needing extreme plot device to kill outright, treating Cap's shield like it was a toy, etc.) is enough for him to be low skyfather level, imho.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I didn't care for Fear Itself.

But Serpent's hype was phucking ridiculous high. And the stuff he actually did on panel (creating Thor-ish level beings, forcing Odin to ravage an entire world and be willing to do so again just to stop him, needing extreme plot device to kill outright, treating Cap's shield like it was a toy, etc.) is enough for him to be low skyfather level, imho.

Where do you rank Gog?

Originally posted by Golgo13
Where do you rank Gog?

Probably around the same level or so. It's a weird match up for me because they both required plot device to beat.

Originally posted by zopzop
I know but the Serpent still loses. How ?

Originally posted by quanchi112
How ?
By getting his sh|t pushed in.

How does the Serpent lose?

You might think he was lackluster but Gog has an actual exploitable weakness in that he was rendered useless if his head was separated from the ground. And we saw Magog/Superman easily remove his head after he was knocked down.

The Serpent lost as well in a pretty meh battle but it took Thor with the Odinsword and the shadow of Twilight to retcon reality.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Probably around the same level or so. It's a weird match up for me because they both required plot device to beat.
Gog wins because he was in a far better story.

uhuh

Originally posted by ODG
This statement is almost offensive. Low Trans characters generally don't create seven Thor-level characters, or enslave Midgard, or manipulate fear on a global scale, or require the Odinsword to defeat them. Low Trans characters definitely can't shatter Cap's shield like a tortilla.

The Serpent didn't create Thor level beings, he augmented beings that were relatively close on their own. The rest of that can't be properly gauged.

Ultimately he was defeated by Thor. Doesn't matter how you slice it, that makes him sub-Skyfather in my book. A Skyfather would take one look at Thor with the Odinsword and disarm and/or kill him. Maybe he's not low-Trans...maybe that was a bit of an exaggeration, but he's no Skyfather.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
How does the Serpent lose?

You might think he was lackluster but Gog has an actual exploitable weakness in that he was rendered useless if his head was separated from the ground. And we saw Magog/Superman easily remove his head after he was knocked down.

The Serpent lost as well in a pretty meh battle but it took Thor with the Odinsword and the shadow of Twilight to retcon reality. Originally posted by abhilegend
Gog wins because he was in a far better story.

uhuh

Originally posted by Cogito
The Serpent didn't create Thor level beings, he augmented beings that were relatively close on their own. The rest of that can't be properly gauged.

Ultimately he was defeated by Thor. Doesn't matter how you slice it, that makes him sub-Skyfather in my book. A Skyfather would take one look at Thor with the Odinsword and disarm and/or kill him. Maybe he's not low-Trans...maybe that was a bit of an exaggeration, but he's no Skyfather.

He created the weapons that in turn morphed them into Thor level beings. And the enchantment he weaved was enough to mindwash them to obedience.

He was beaten by Thor wearing armor and having the Odinsword and being "destined" to beat him at the cost of his own life aka tons of plot device and context. That shouldn't lower Serpent's stock any. He's not Odin level, obviously, but he's enough of a threat for Odin to want to act accordingly in a rather rash manner. I'd say low-Skyfather is fair.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Gog wins because he was in a far better story.

uhuh

Debatable he wins, but yes, JSA takes a dump on Fear Itself.

Originally posted by Cogito
Ultimately he was defeated by Thor. Doesn't matter how you slice it, that makes him sub-Skyfather in my book. A Skyfather would take one look at Thor with the Odinsword and disarm and/or kill him. Maybe he's not low-Trans...maybe that was a bit of an exaggeration, but he's no Skyfather.



Thor with the Odinsword would decapitate Gog easily and punt him into orbit. Pretty much a lot of Skyfather level beings would be in trouble against Thor with the Odinsword.

Not to mention Loki had to retcon in a weakness into his past to give Thor the opening he needed to end it.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Not to mention Loki had to retcon in a weakness into his past to give Thor the opening he needed to end it.

That, too.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Debatable he wins, but yes, JSA takes a dump on Fear Itself.
Hopefully on Fraction's head too.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Hopefully on Fraction's head too.

Ironically, I do like his Invincible Iron Man run (which won an Eisner award) and his Fantastic Four and FF titles are fun reads, too (though I could do without the Doom retcon).

Originally posted by Cogito
The Serpent didn't create Thor level beings, he augmented beings that were relatively close on their own. The rest of that can't be properly gauged.

Ultimately he was defeated by Thor. Doesn't matter how you slice it, that makes him sub-Skyfather in my book. A Skyfather would take one look at Thor with the Odinsword and disarm and/or kill him. Maybe he's not low-Trans...maybe that was a bit of an exaggeration, but he's no Skyfather. Sin, Thing, Titania, Grey Gargoyle and Attuma are close to Thor level? Excuse me while I laugh myself out of this thread.

No, wait. One other thing. Being defeated by Thor doesn't stop one from being a Skyfather. Thor laid Zelia low who had stolen the Odinpower and was amalgamating the Dark Gods. Thor defeated Glory. And Thor had to use the Odinsword and special armor to take down the Serpent... and it still cost him his own life. Thor w/ Belt of Strength and Odinpower shield defeated a Thanosi who was amped by Chalice of Ruins and Illumination Stone. You say any Skyfather would just easily dismiss Thor w/ Odinsword? You do remember Thor defeating Surtur with Twilight's shadow, right? So unless Surtur is not even a Skyfather in your book now...

... this is where I start laughing myself right out of this thread.

Yeah, being taken down a peg by Thor disqualifying you from the Skyfather tier would see almost the entire class reworked. Thor's taken on Skyfathers more then pretty much any other hero.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Yeah, being taken down a peg by Thor disqualifying you from the Skyfather tier would see almost the entire class reworked. Thor's taken on Skyfathers more then pretty much any other hero.

And he's killed none of them without plot devices.

Originally posted by Cogito
And he's killed none of them without plot devices.

........But he had a plot device against the Serpent, so why are you trying to knock him down a tier automatically because he was beaten by the son of Odin?

And unless you count Mjolnir as a plot device, that's not true.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
........But he had a plot device against the Serpent, so why are you trying to knock him down a tier automatically because he was beaten by the son of Odin?

And unless you count Mjolnir as a plot device, that's not true.

Why are you trying to knock him up a tier?

Look at his feats. He did very little to justify being a Skyfather. IMO he'd get his ass kicked by anyone else I'd place even in the low Skyfather range. I'd have serious doubts about his ability to win against most everyone in the higher Trans range.

I actually thought Gog's story was pretty terrible also

Originally posted by zopzop
By getting his sh|t pushed in. Based on what ?

Originally posted by curryman
I actually thought Gog's story was pretty terrible also

Not nearly as terrible as Fear Itself.

Originally posted by Cogito
Why are you trying to knock him up a tier?

Look at his feats. He did very little to justify being a Skyfather. IMO he'd get his ass kicked by anyone else I'd place even in the low Skyfather range. I'd have serious doubts about his ability to win against most everyone in the higher Trans range.

Because that's where he belongs?

Really, like who? It was made explicitly clear that a God like Serpent could not be defeated as he was. I don't think even Odin could have defeated him on his own by the end there. And he was only growing power.

Originally posted by Cogito
Why are you trying to knock him up a tier?

Look at his feats. He did very little to justify being a Skyfather. IMO he'd get his ass kicked by anyone else I'd place even in the low Skyfather range. I'd have serious doubts about his ability to win against most everyone in the higher Trans range. We ARE looking at the Serpent's feats. It's you who isn't. He's Odin's brother. He ruled Midgard before Odin overthrew him with the same exact plot device Odinsword and armor in ancient times. He created Thor-level beings. He snapped Cap's shield like a tortilla chip. He manipulated fear on a planetary level. He created a Dark Asgard and an army of minions out of thin air. What Trans character does these kinds of things, exactly?

The Destroyer armor? Because, y'know, Kid Loki basically spelled out in plain black-and-white that the Destroyer armor wouldn't do sh1t against the Serpent.

Originally posted by ODG
What Trans character does these kinds of things, exactly?
Jenny Quantum. 13

Transvestite? Transexual?