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Geonosian hangar, peak!characters.

**** Revan man. He should be crazy powerful yet he's got bupkis to show for it. That book only made him marginally less of an unknown then he was before. It wasn't worth the sacrifice either. Krayt wins.

If we judged characters' powers by the quality of their stories, Bane and Revan would be so low they'd be getting wedgies from Jar Jar.

Path of Destruction wasn't that bad. I enjoyed it and really got into seeing a Sith's perspective in terms of training and rise.

Also Drew said that Revan is about as good as Bane. But he also said they both were as good as Vader, so who knows.

If Krayt was voted over Dooku, what chance does Revan have?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Path of Destruction wasn't that bad. I enjoyed it and really got into seeing a Sith's perspective in terms of training and rise.

If that's the case, you should read Plagueis, which is a zillion times better.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Also Drew said that Revan is about as good as Bane. But he also said they both were as good as Vader, so who knows.

I wouldn't put him too far off the mark either way. Vader's got the feats to rival, if not surpass Bane, and Revan is only far off if you consider feats alone.

Sidious is too uninteresting to appeal to me. I'll settle for a synopsis.

If thats what you think whats your own opinion on the thread? Is Revan near enough to beat Dooku?

Oh, I forgot you don't like charismatic, powerful Sith Lords with realistic motivations who are successful.

Stick to the one-dimensional thug, by all means.

I think Revan is a hair above Dooku and have thought so for years, but as you mentioned recently, he's a hard one to back due to lackluster feats.

'Realistic motivations?' Lawl. Don't tell me Palps got some crazy backstory that makes him less of a stereotypical cackling monster?

Yes, Revan seems more powerful, but he doesn't really have the chops to back it up.

Pursuit of power is an absolutely realistic motivation.

Agreed.

Thats Banes motivation as well though so ha ha ha.

Krayt's motivation is to bring the galaxy to peace by bringing it under one will.

Well, until he dies. That was sort of a religious experience for him. Then he decides he wants to reforge the galaxy stronger by making it go through death and rebirth.


Originally posted by The_Tempest

I wouldn't put him too far off the mark either way. Vader's got the feats to rival, if not surpass Bane, and Revan is only far off if you consider feats alone.


Ditto. For me, Revan, Bane, Krayt, and Vader all fill similar roles and are more or less in the same tier.

Drew gave a statement that Bane and Revan are equal to Vader? Sauce?

Its from his website. He's talking about questions and answers one about fights as 'Don't ask me about this. If Bane or Revan or Vader fought it would depend on the circumstances and how they felt going into the fight.'

Or something similar.

So he doesn't really give an answer one way or the other.

Its non-canon and just his personal opinion so it doesn't truly matter, but he says its a tie right at the start and the implication is that they're close.

Krayt seems more powerful based on feats.

Revan is not explored in detail in the mythos so he is very hard to quantify in terms of talent and skill in the big picture for versus debates. Still their are ample hints which indicate that Revan is among the most learned and powerful Jedi of the mythos.

Look at this example:

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20091118054344/starwars/images/6/6a/MorneKillsKrayt.jpg

If Revan would have been in place of Krayt; he would have owned Celeste Morne in return.

------

On top of this, it took a (DE) Sidious type individual to handle Revan in combat. Nothing indicates that Krayt is that damn powerful; not even close.

The associated author (Mr. Drew) confirmed to me in a email that Revan is a telekinetic powerhouse; unfortunately, he didn't explore Revan in this aspect much in the novel but he left a hint in the "power gathering" feat of Revan with which the Jedi Master overwhelmed Sith Emperor temporarily; not to forget that the novel covers just a few years of Revan's whole story.

If we consider telekinetic feats alone, we would end up with a distorted perception. I recall Satele Shan shattering gigantic tree with a gesture from a single hand along with holding Malgus at bay with another hand simultaneously (very impressive feat on the whole) but then ending up loosing to the same Sith Lord a few moments later until her ally stepped in to help. Therefore, telekinetic abilities feats do not explain power factor properly.

------

In SWTOR game, Revan actually unleashed Force Maelstrom power on the Imperial Strike Team; this after, 300 years of continuous torture and shit. On top of this, he packs mysterious abilities (e.g. escaping from the Imperial Strike Team in the form of an energy); the full extent of his abilities are unknown.

Revan is heavily underestimated in the mythos. Holistic picture wise, he will wreck majority of individuals in single combat.

To defeat Revan, you either need to be a potent Strike Team or (DE) Sidious level individual. Otherwise, you are not succeeding.

RotS Sidious can't defeat Revan? Really?

Maybe he can maybe he can't. I don't think people are giving Muur enough credit though. He claimed Krayt was a neophyte compared to the sith of his time and then went out and pretty much proved it. Dreypa was part of the exiles and he was setting villages on fire with the force, while throwing out ridiculous barrages of force lightning. I am starting to believe that the Jedi/Sith of that specific time period were very powerful.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
RotS Sidious can't defeat Revan? Really?

Sidious would take a majority, but I'd say Revan would put up a respectable fight.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
RotS Sidious can't defeat Revan? Really?
This incarnation of Sidious cannot overwhelm Revan with his powers.

DE Sidious is safe bet.

Originally posted by steveholt956
Maybe he can maybe he can't. I don't think people are giving Muur enough credit though. He claimed Krayt was a neophyte compared to the sith of his time and then went out and pretty much proved it. Dreypa was part of the exiles and he was setting villages on fire with the force, while throwing out ridiculous barrages of force lightning. I am starting to believe that the Jedi/Sith of that specific time period were very powerful.
Murr was indeed very powerful and learned in the ways of the dark side. No under-estimation from my end.

However, people under-estimate Nyriss a lot. She is an expert Sith Sorcerer and subdued Scourge and Meetra simultaneously (both of whom are among the heavy-weights of the mythos).

Originally posted by steveholt956
Maybe he can maybe he can't. I don't think people are giving Muur enough credit though. He claimed Krayt was a neophyte compared to the sith of his time and then went out and pretty much proved it. Dreypa was part of the exiles and he was setting villages on fire with the force, while throwing out ridiculous barrages of force lightning. I am starting to believe that the Jedi/Sith of that specific time period were very powerful.

Starting?

Originally posted by noitseuq
Starting?
Murr send Vader packing (running from the world with his tail behind his legs) and infected the entire force that accompanied him to the region where Celeste Morne was found, effectively nullifying it in the process.

Murr did respect Vader's strength though. He offered Vader to overthrow Sidious with their combined might; such was his power.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Sidious would take a majority, but I'd say Revan would put up a respectable fight.

Much like Dooku, yes.

I'm going to dispute your claim that Revan can fight while being stabbed in the back with a lightsaber.


Originally posted by steveholt956
Maybe he can maybe he can't. I don't think people are giving Muur enough credit though. He claimed Krayt was a neophyte compared to the sith of his time and then went out and pretty much proved it.

They barely started clashing when Azlyn Rae (Jedi/Imperial Knight master) stabbed him in the back, mind, so not much was proven.


Also, I wouldn't take the Sith trashtalk like that too seriously. Darth Andeddu made pretty much the same claim to Darth Wyyrlok, and then Darth Wyyrlok beat him in his best area. Krayt trashtalked back in response to Muur's, after all.

I do agree that Muur deserves a lot of credit even so- Vader felt with Muur he could defeat the Emperor, after all, and Celeste drawing on Muur's power was a total badass and still not as powerful as Muur in the driver's seat.





They were the original Exiles who formed the Sith after having delved into the extremes of dark side research, after all. Oh, and btw, Book of the Sith says there was a top-five among them (12 lords total). Ajunta Pall their leader, XoXaan, Sorzus Syn, Muur and Dreypa, the last two being rivals.

XoXaan being the one who Krayt got his teachings from and studying under her holocron for decades, it should be noted.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Sidious would take a majority, but I'd say Revan would put up a respectable fight.
My gut tells me the same, but one can't base an argument on their gut in my opinion.

Originally posted by Q99
I'm going to dispute your claim that Revan can fight while being stabbed in the back with a lightsaber.
Krayt's armor didn't afford him certain degree of protection against it? The fact that he was standing even after such a stab is an indication that the wound inflicted upon him wasn't life-threatening to him, thanks to his armor.

Revan could heal even severe wounds (inflicted upon him) with his Force abilities without need of medical attention by the way. Non life-threatening wounds wouldn't even register to him.

Originally posted by Q99
They barely started clashing when Azlyn Rae (Jedi/Imperial Knight master) stabbed him in the back, mind, so not much was proven.
Read this:

"Your thoughts betray you," Plagueis said. "Do you think that Malak's powers were weakened by Revan's lightsaber? Bane by being encrusted in orbalisks? Do you think Gravid's young apprentice was hindered by the prosthesis she was forced to wear after fighting him?"

"No, Master."

(Source: Star Wars: Darth Plagueis)

So?

Originally posted by Intrepid37
My gut tells me the same, but one can't base an argument on their gut in my opinion.
You have logical point here. A sign of an open mind.

Dynasty of Evil notes that Bane's body and powers were weakened by being encrusted in orbalisks.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Dynasty of Evil notes that Bane's body and powers were weakened by being encrusted in orbalisks.
I have this novel. He aged rapidly (side-effects of orbalisks) but his powers didn't diminish as long as he was biologically healthy enough.

Dark side practices can take negative toll on biological well-being of a practitioner. This, in turn, negatively influences the effectiveness of that practitioner in combat situations and/or otherwise. This is why many dark side practitioners pursue immortality.

Plagueis's novel have given examples of individuals at the height of their power.

Bane was back on his feet in an instant, turning to face his foe. "You couldn't bring yourself to kill her," Zannah said, her voice filled with contempt. "You've become weak. No wonder you tried to violate the Rule of Two.''

-Dynasty of Evil

Zannah shook her head.

"I know you went to Prakith. I know you went after Andeddu's Holocron. I know you were searching for the secret of eternal life."

"I did that out of necessity. I taught you everything I knew about the dark side. I waited years for you to challenge me. But you were content to toil in my shadow, to remain an apprentice until the ravages of age robbed me of my power."

-Dynasty of Evil

Bane's body was in decline due to side-effects of orbalisks after he had detached from them. The events of DoE take place ten years after Bane lost connection with orbalisks; long time.

This does not contradicts revelation in Plagueis' novel which notes that Bane's powers didn't diminish when orbalisks attached to him.

Oh.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
My gut tells me the same, but one can't base an argument on their gut in my opinion.


My gut tells me Sidious would waste Revan. He's taken out three council members, who were regarded as celebrated swordmaster, being among the best of their time, in seconds. Kit was one of those council members, who is at least on par with Kenobi in bladework. Kolar was another, whose skill with a blade allowed him to outright dominate Vos in a duel. And then there was master Tiin, who doesn't have any saber feats that I'm aware of, but he was said to have one of the strongest force abilities of all jedi of his time, and he does have exceptional reaction speed, which is a huge advantage in saber dueling. Palpatine slaughtered all of them quickly despite Windu being alongside them.

He's also effortlessly dominated both Maul and Savage simultaneously with the force. And both Maul and Savage have better TK feats than Revan. Maul has consistently owned and rag-dolled Obi Wan with the force, has collapsed a cave ceiling, has hurled a ship. Savage has rag-dolled both Anakin and Obi Wan simultaneously, hurled a ship, broke out of jail cell with a force wave, floored several battle droids and Anakin & Kenobi all at the same time, force choked and levitated both Dooku and Ventress at the same time (granted he did do this in a fit of rage, but it still shows the raw force power he possesses). All that, and yet Sidious effortlessly held them pinned to a wall despite their efforts to break free.

Revan doesn't hold a candle to ROTS Sidious. Sidious has far better feats and accolade's than Revan. I believe even Maul can put up a decent fight against Revan. Revan is powerful, no doubt, but even as of ROTS, there are not too many force users who can tangle with Sidious in combat.

Revan of course holds a candle to ROTS Sidious. He held his own for a time against Vitiate, BY HIMSELF. The guy is a powerhouse who can definitely contend with Sidious and even win a few times.

Where you're trying to put Sidious miles ahead of Revan is where your argument also fails. Sidious took out 3 council members, then subsequently lost to Windu (yes Windu is one of the best), so no, the council members are not "some of the best" but a tier firmly below the likes of Palpatine, Yoda, and Mace.

Add to the fact that Revan took Nyriss' force storm, absorbed it and turned Nyriss into ash, and you got one hell of a character here, more than capable of going toe to toe with ROTS Sidious.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Sidious would take a majority, but I'd say Revan would put up a respectable fight.



Originally posted by steveholt956
Maybe he can maybe he can't. I don't think people are giving Muur enough credit though. He claimed Krayt was a neophyte compared to the sith of his time and then went out and pretty much proved it. Dreypa was part of the exiles and he was setting villages on fire with the force, while throwing out ridiculous barrages of force lightning. I am starting to believe that the Jedi/Sith of that specific time period were very powerful.

Agreed. The Exiles seem to be crazy powerful.

Originally posted by steveholt956
Revan of course holds a candle to ROTS Sidious. He held his own for a time against Vitiate, BY HIMSELF. The guy is a powerhouse who can definitely contend with Sidious and even win a few times.

Where you're trying to put Sidious miles ahead of Revan is where your argument also fails. Sidious took out 3 council members, then subsequently lost to Windu (yes Windu is one of the best), so no, the council members are not "some of the best" but a tier firmly below the likes of Palpatine, Yoda, and Mace.

Add to the fact that Revan took Nyriss' force storm, absorbed it and turned Nyriss into ash, and you got one hell of a character here, more than capable of going toe to toe with ROTS Sidious.


The only thing Vitiate at that time has on ROTS Sidious, is probably telepathy, and force drain.

Sidious, most likely, will not come at Revan the way Vitiate did. Vitiate wasted time trying to dominate Revan mentally. What is Revan going to do if Sidious comes at him the way he did the council members? You can ignore the feats and accolades of the council member all you want, but it changes nothing I said. Being firmly below Yoda, Sidious, and Windu, does not mean they are not among the best. What has Revan done in sabers that suggests he is bigger threat than all three of those masters put together saber-wise? Also, what feats in TK does Revan have that would suggest he can overcome a TK attack from someone who can easily over power two extremely powerful TK user simultaneously?

As for Sidious losing to Mace, I've went over that argument countless times, and it gets old. And I don't see why I should waste my time going over it with someone who claims Krayt would stomp someone like Dooku, and disregards feats of characters from an era you don't like.

Agreed.

A comparison between feats and accolades plus taking context, environment etc into account is what I subscribe to

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
The only thing Vitiate at that time has on ROTS Sidious, is probably telepathy, and force drain.
And a thousand years of dark side knowledge. We've pretty much agreed on this forum that while Sidious still ranks #1 in overall force knowledge, Vitiate is the ultimate dark side master. So no, that's not all he has on him.


Again with trying to predict what a character is going to do. The only way Revan overcame Vitiate's mental attacks was by becoming one with the force, equal parts dark side and light. What's Revan going to do? Apparently he had the fold space ability, which means he'd go from point A to point B in enough time. I did not say Revan would win a saber battle but Revan's known accolades are more than enough to give him an even footing with ROTS Sidious.


Pot.Kettle.Black
The hypocrisy is strong with this one.

What are Revan's ''known accolades'' exactly...?

Aside from fold space, fighting a team of either imperials or jedi, throwing back a force storm into Nyriss, and holding his own against Vitiate? What more do you need?

When you said accolades I thought you meant quotes or something like that regarding his mastery and skill, not feats.

There's a lot of hyperbolic quotes so I didn't go there.

Fair enough.

Whoa, Revan and Sidious are not on even footing.

On even footing in the sense that Revan CAN defeat Sidious in a 1 on 1 match. Whether it's 7 times, or 5, or 3, that's debatable.

He'd have to get really lucky with reflecting lightning.

I don't see how it's that debatable.

Revan won't be steamrolled and has the skill to land a few victories, no doubt, but based on both feats and accolades, Sidious has an advantage in skill, power, and mastery. He takes a solid majority.

Based on feats and accolades, Revan does get steamrolled.

Sidious stomps in my opinion.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Based on feats and accolades, Revan does get steamrolled.

Sidious stomps in my opinion.

Feats? Sure.

Feats and accolades? Nah. Revan wasn't just highly skilled a la Kit Fisto, but was a tried and true prodigy of enormous caliber. Taking on Star Forge imbued Malak, smoking Nyriss, putting Vitiate on his royal ass twice... He's not fodder for ROTS Sidious.

Actually, I guess his stupid Ying Yang attack might put Sidious down for a bit.

Revan could definitely put Sidious on his ass. The problem is going to be when Sidious gets up.

Malak and Nyriss have done exactly what?

Anyways, I disagree. Sidious has repeatedly shown higher capability regarding skill, speed, power etc, all of which I doubt I need remind you of.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm going to agree with Q99 on the era-bias. Intrepid seems to have a big ol' boner for CW era combatants.

Cool story bro.

Also Krusty's lame.

Are we really accusing people of bias? Again?

Everyone has their favorite characters and eras; no one is objective.

You're only saying that because you're biased for biased people.

You dog.

Originally posted by steveholt956
We've pretty much agreed on this forum that while Sidious still ranks #1 in overall force knowledge, Vitiate is the ultimate dark side master.


I haven't agreed to this and I surely haven't seen any proof for it. As far as the dark side, Sidious has studied more than just sith-lore, he's also studied from other dark side cults. Even in Plagueis, Sidious already had knowledge of nightsister magic. But yeah, I agree that Vitiate most likely has more knowledge of the dark side than ROTS Sidious, but that's irrelevant considering he has nothing on Sidious in combat other that the two powers I listed.


Originally posted by steveholt956
So no, that's not all he has on him.


Oh, yeah, and he's lived longer.


Combat-oriented powers, yes that's all Vitiate had on ROTS Sidious at that time. And don't bring up the time Vitiate supposedly brought down a temple because that was, what, hundreds of years after his fight with Revan? Sidious shits all over Vitiate in combat.


Originally posted by steveholt956
Again with trying to predict what a character is going to do.


I go by what a character is capable of. And Sidious is prone to do that. Unless you're trying to suggest that Sidious would come at Revan the same way Vitiate came at him, but then you'd also be trying to predict what a character will do.


Originally posted by steveholt956
The only way Revan overcame Vitiate's mental attacks was by becoming one with the force, equal parts dark side and light.


That's nice, but what's your point? I'm not saying Sidious will try to mentally dominate Revan.


Originally posted by steveholt956
What's Revan going to do? Apparently he had the fold space ability, which means he'd go from point A to point B in enough time.


Apparently, huh?

I was under the impression that it wasn't confirmed that Revan knows this ability, and it seems as though you are unsure if he does. But it'd be nice if you can name a time when Revan used it. But if he does have this ability, and if he's able to use it before Sidious can slaughter him, then it would be a smart move for him to use it to escape.

And since we are being silly here, apparently Tiin has light speed reaction, seeing how he can use the force to navigate ships in hyperspace, and avoid space debri. So if Sidious can slaughter someone who has light speed reaction before he could react, how is Revan going to use "fold space" before Sidious manages to cut him down?


Originally posted by steveholt956
I did not say Revan would win a saber battle


So how is he comparable to Sidious then? How would he be capable of taking any wins against Sidious? By handling his lightning for some time? Because that's likely the only thing he may be able to defend against, but that wouldn't grant him any wins whatsoever.

Again, if Sidious can easily overpower two extremely powerful force users at once, then I'm not seeing how he can't overpower Revan, especially considering that Revan hasn't done anything with TK to suggest he's as powerful as Maul in that area, let alone Maul and Savage combined.


Originally posted by steveholt956
but Revan's known accolades are more than enough to give him an even footing with ROTS Sidious.


First you say Krayt can stomp Dooku, now you claim Revan is on even footing with Sidious? lmao

My questions for you in this post are more for you do think about how stupid you sound, but don't waste you're time responding, because I definitely won't waste my time reading your response. You're as bad as LeGenD.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Feats and accolades? Nah.


What accolades does Revan have that even approaches Sidious's? Maul seems to have comparable accolades to Revan, and Maul's accolades fall short to Sidious's.


Originally posted by The_Tempest
Revan wasn't just highly skilled a la Kit Fisto, but was a tried and true prodigy of enormous caliber.


Yeah, but it wasn't just Kit by himself that Sidious faced.

Furthermore, Tiin was said to have one of the strongest force abilities of all jedi, which seems to indicate that he was also a force prodigy, on top of being a celebrated sword master. And then there's Kolar who basically walked all over Vos in a saber duel. So if Sidious can take on all three of them at once, and easily slaughter them despite Windu being alongside them, then I'm not seeing how Revan would put up much of a struggle against him.


Originally posted by The_Tempest
Taking on Star Forge imbued Malak, smoking Nyriss, putting Vitiate on his royal ass twice... He's not fodder for ROTS Sidious.


Well, you already know all of Maul's and Savage's feats, so no need for me to list them. But do you honestly think Revan is more powerful than both of them combined?

I can't sound any dumber than you do right now, not even on my worst day. Thanks for clearing up the self pwnage here, gave me a few chuckles. Please continue with your utterly retarded and biased posts.


Just saw this and realized the logical you are using. Need I say more?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Krayt's armor didn't afford him certain degree of protection against it? The fact that he was standing even after such a stab is an indication that the wound inflicted upon him wasn't life-threatening to him, thanks to his armor.

No, it was in a gap in the armor, near the neck, not a blow to the armor, which would've been a lot less serious. It went in around the base of the neck and came out the front of his chest on the right side.

And the stab and the force-lightning duel were simultaneous. They started shooting lightning, Azlyn leapt in, he was hit by Muur's lightning with the saber still in him, sticking out of his chest.



I'm not talking 'get hit, then fight through the damage.' I mean, "He starts the lightning exchange, gets stabbed in the neck while doing so, interrupting his lightning and causing him to get zapped (a zap so intense that Azlyn, even being close to it, was fatally burned and only Cade's power kept her alive long enough to get Vader-like mechanical assistance. She fell to the ground before getting the full treatment- Muur continued to blast in a sustained manner until he was thrown off the cliff).

The saber wound in itself would be extremely life-threatening by normal standards.

It should be noted that all this did not kill him, nor did the fall from the cliff. Wyyrlok then showed up and zapped him while he was down.

Dude does not die easily, even before he gets his revive technique.




Different situation. While Gravid's apprentice wasn't hindered by the prosthesis- or at least not to a significant degree, though arguably prosthesis have been shown to be overall a bit of a disadvantage- I bet losing it during the fight itself was something of a disadvantage til she had a chance to get patched up! Wounds still matter, even if you can fight through them.

I can't think of anyone would could fight at full with a lightsaber actually stuck through their chest.


(And speaking of odd examples, Bane was boosted by his orbalisks!)



Originally posted by ares834
Are we really accusing people of bias? Again?

Everyone has their favorite characters and eras; no one is objective.

Yes, but there is a difference between having a favorite, and consistently rating wide swaths higher or lower than their feats can justify.


We can have some bias, but we can also recognize when we have bias and aren't rating things by the same standards.

Originally posted by Q99


No, it was in a gap in the armor, near the neck, not a blow to the armor, which would've been a lot less serious. It went in around the base of the neck and came out the front of his chest on the right side.

Pfft! Life-threatening? Thats a mere paper-cut!

(seriously though holy shit)

Edit: The orbalisks boosted Bane, but also subjected him to intense, perpetual agony. I think the relevant thing is that Bane didn't allow this to affect his abilities.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
My gut tells me Sidious would waste Revan. He's taken out three council members, who were regarded as celebrated swordmaster, being among the best of their time, in seconds. Kit was one of those council members, who is at least on par with Kenobi in bladework. Kolar was another, whose skill with a blade allowed him to outright dominate Vos in a duel. And then there was master Tiin, who doesn't have any saber feats that I'm aware of, but he was said to have one of the strongest force abilities of all jedi of his time, and he does have exceptional reaction speed, which is a huge advantage in saber dueling. Palpatine slaughtered all of them quickly despite Windu being alongside them.
Revan utterly destroyed a Sith Lord in a matter of seconds who comfortably defeated Lord Scourge and Meetra Surik simultaneously; both whom are among the (true) heavy weights of the mythos and have relatively much greater accomplishments under their belt then likes of Fisto, Kolar and Tinn.

What is your point?

The reason that Sidious easily outgunned the trio of Fisto, Kolar and Tinn is because his command of the Force was much superior to theirs; this doesn't implies that Sidious was better duelist then them on technical level but that they didn't register before him in the context of command of the Force.

Revan's command of the Force is extraordinary by all accounts. He isn't fodder for anybody.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
He's also effortlessly dominated both Maul and Savage simultaneously with the force. And both Maul and Savage have better TK feats than Revan. Maul has consistently owned and rag-dolled Obi Wan with the force, has collapsed a cave ceiling, has hurled a ship. Savage has rag-dolled both Anakin and Obi Wan simultaneously, hurled a ship, broke out of jail cell with a force wave, floored several battle droids and Anakin & Kenobi all at the same time, force choked and levitated both Dooku and Ventress at the same time (granted he did do this in a fit of rage, but it still shows the raw force power he possesses). All that, and yet Sidious effortlessly held them pinned to a wall despite their efforts to break free.
This is such a pathetic argument that it doesn't even warrants a response. For the last time, stop comparing Revan's TK feats with those of others because they tell us nothing about Revan's actual capabilities and neither we have a visual representation of Revan's TK feats in action to gauge them properly.

Here is explanation of each feat of Revan in the novel:-

1. Up against Mandalorians on Rekkiad, Revan (effortlessly) instantly moved a heavy object made of stone towards his position to cover himself from the blast of 3 grenades thrown near his position.

Ever seen a Force-user move a heavy object instantly?

2. Up against Imperial Guard on Dromund Kaas, Revan (effortlessely) destroyed a large Vaulted Stone Archway structure to block the path of reinforcements from afar.

This is more impressive then Dooku's stone-shattering feat on Geonosis in AOTC.

3. The door(s) blasting action was self-control based one; Revan didn't wanted to destroy those two gigantic doors because he planned to seal them once inside the throne room.

We never saw what Revan can do when he actually gathers power. He gathered power only once during his fight against Vitiate (in the entire novel). Though the author conveyed to me via email that Revan is a TK powerhouse.

Most importantly, TK feats do not reveal how effective an individual would be against another powerful individual in combat situations.

Some examples:

1. Bane's building-shattering power did nothing to Kas'im.
2. Anakin couldn't overwhelm Obi-Wan with his Force push.
3. Satele shattered a gigantic tree with one hand and held off Malgus at bay with another hand simultaneously but got manhandled by the same Sith Lord a moments later.
4. Dooku's impressive TK feats didn't help him against his final duel against Anakin.
5. Vitiate could demolish (gigantic) building(s) with his TK abilities but he couldn't overwhelm HoT during their second encounter, granted that he was in weakened condition and this fight was circumstantial but still...

Get the memo?

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Revan doesn't hold a candle to ROTS Sidious. Sidious has far better feats and accolade's than Revan. I believe even Maul can put up a decent fight against Revan. Revan is powerful, no doubt, but even as of ROTS, there are not too many force users who can tangle with Sidious in combat.
Maul stands no chance against Revan in an all out fight. Revan's sheer raw power is too great for Maul to handle.

Accolades wise, Revan have been declared as:

1. Jedi Order's most powerful champion
2. Heart of the Force
3. Command of the Force superior to that of every one whom Meetra Surik have met
4. Impressed many Sith Lords including Darth Traya, Darth Bane, Ajunta Pall, Darth Malak and Darth Rivan.

He isn't much behind Sidious in accolades.

What extraordinary TK feats Sidious have shown by the way? Not one as per my knowledge. We know that he is extremely powerful from his performances against other powerful individuals and the accolades he received; same is true for Revan.

In-fact, Sidious is much more explored character then Revan; Sidious's powers are easier to quantify accordingly.

Revan have got one novel thus far; most of his story has been explored in games which do not quantify his powers much. However, Revan's over-all accomplishments are amazing by the mythos standards.

Abandon ship! Heart of the Force quote spotted!

Originally posted by Nephthys
Abandon ship! Heart of the Force quote spotted!
It is an accolade; why should we ignore it? Because anti-Revan brigade want us to?

Some sources have elaborated on this a bit:-

1. In those days, he had believed this would protect him from the dark side, but he no longer had any such illusions. He was older and wiser. He understood that the two sides of the Force were more closely intertwined with each other than either the Jedi or the Sith would ever admit. He had learned to balance on the knife-edge between them, drawing on both the light and dark sides for strength.

2. Instead of charging forward, he opened himself up to the Force, letting both the light and the dark side flow through him like twin rushing rivers. But instead of focusing or channeling the Force, he released it in its purest form.

3. Like Revan, the Emperor understood the Force in ways Scourge never would.

4. SWTOR game also offers important hints.

The accolade is hyperbolic but their is merit behind it. Revan understood Force in the ways that few did in the whole mythos. In-fact, Revan's time and space bending feat in SWTOR is sufficient indicator.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
The only thing Vitiate at that time has on ROTS Sidious, is probably telepathy, and force drain.
Vitiate is on a whole new level in comparison to ROTS Sidious. Your knowledge is extremely limited.

Perhaps this thread would open your eyes:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=651536

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Sidious, most likely, will not come at Revan the way Vitiate did. Vitiate wasted time trying to dominate Revan mentally. What is Revan going to do if Sidious comes at him the way he did the council members? You can ignore the feats and accolades of the council member all you want, but it changes nothing I said. Being firmly below Yoda, Sidious, and Windu, does not mean they are not among the best. What has Revan done in sabers that suggests he is bigger threat than all three of those masters put together saber-wise? Also, what feats in TK does Revan have that would suggest he can overcome a TK attack from someone who can easily over power two extremely powerful TK user simultaneously?
Revan understands the Force in ways that few do in the whole mythos. He is very good at sensing danger in advance and prepare himself accordingly; his precognitive abilities are amazing. He could accurately predict even future events.

Revan doesn't have to match Sidious blade for blade; he would let the Force guide his hand instead. Bane employed this approach to handle Kas'im who was relatively much superior duelist. However, Bane had acquired such level of command of the Force that he could perform feats with will.

Dueling abilities wise, Revan can actually curbstomp even a well-trained Jedi/Sith. He proved this when he fought an Imperial Guard individual.

In holistic scale, Revan have much greater accomplishments under hi belt then the trio of Fisto, Tinn and Kolar put together. Do the math.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
As for Sidious losing to Mace, I've went over that argument countless times, and it gets old. And I don't see why I should waste my time going over it with someone who claims Krayt would stomp someone like Dooku, and disregards feats of characters from an era you don't like.
Several canonical sources affirm that Sidious defeated Mace with aid of Anakin. Interpret this which ever way you want but you cannot rule out Anakin's assistance.

It appears Revan was the only one who followed the Unifying Force in the old republic, as far as known sources go.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Both S66 and you are misinformed about how to evaluate characters for versus debates.
I disagree. Revan is clearly supposed to be extremely powerful, probably more so than the PT heavyweighs bar Sidious and Yoda, but you'd fail entirely if you chose to use that argument.

I'm ready to say this though: it is fortunate and unfortunate at the same time that Revan has so little of good feats.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
This is childish way of comparing actions performed by each individual. We all know that descriptions such as these lead to nothing.

Some of these authors are describing visual effects rather then actual actions.

Here is an example of a lightsaber swing looking like a shield:

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/G/01/videogames/detail-page/B001BWRBB2.02.lg.jpg

Here is an example of a lightsaber swing looking like a blur:

http://artfiles.alphacoders.com/564/56451.jpg
The first picture doesn't look like a shield, just a blur. Don't you have a video? It's hard to say when the blade isn't in motion.

And what's your point?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
---

More impressive Revan's showing is against an Imperial Guard individual; a lone Imperial Guard individual is a match for a well-trained Jedi/Sith in dueling abilities. Revan cut down one in a matter of few steps. This particular feat is actually a true indicator of Revan's dueling ability. It implies that Revan can cut down a well-trained Jedi/Sith duelist in few steps/seconds.
The guards might be a match for a Jedi, but killing one doesn't put him anywhere near Sidious' level.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
A comparison between feats and accolades plus taking context, environment etc into account is what I subscribe to
Please don't make me laugh. Though you are improving.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
What are Revan's ''known accolades'' exactly...?
The list is impressive even by accolade's standards.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Based on feats and accolades, Revan does get steamrolled.

Sidious stomps in my opinion.
Excuse me?

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Malak and Nyriss have done exactly what?
Malak:-

1. Became powerful enough to control an entire Sith Empire under Revan's absence. This feat alone puts him on par with prominent Sith Lords of the mythos. Managing and controlling a Sith Empire is very different from doing the same with Republic.

2. Handled the trio of Carth (a decorated Republic Officer), Bastilla Shan (a powerful Jedi) and Revan (does he needs introduction?) simultaneously on his flagship Leviathan in a fight.

3. Cuts down Jedi like fodder.

4. On Star Forge, Malak was siphoning energies from several Jedi captives to fuel his power.

Nyriss:-

1. Acquired a seat in Dark Council and lasted two decades in it; in the Dark Council, (genuinely) powerful individuals do not often last a month sometimes, let alone acquiring a seat in it.

2. Subdued both Scourge and Meetra simultaneously; both of whom are among the (true) heavy weights of the mythos themselves.

3. Was adept in Sith Sorcery

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Anyways, I disagree. Sidious has repeatedly shown higher capability regarding skill, speed, power etc, all of which I doubt I need remind you of.
Command of the Force on the whole reflects upon a Force-user's speed, skill and power.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Please don't make me laugh. Though you are improving.




Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
The list is impressive even by accolade's standards.
lol

I was asking a question.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Excuse me?
You're welcome.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Malak:-

1. Became powerful enough to control an entire Sith Empire under Revan's absence. This feat alone puts him on par with prominent Sith Lords of the mythos. Managing and controlling a Sith Empire is very different from doing the same with Republic.

2. Handled the trio of Carth (a decorated Republic Officer), Bastilla Shan (a powerful Jedi) and Revan (does he needs introduction?) simultaneously on his flagship Leviathan in a fight.

3. Cuts down Jedi like fodder.

4. On Star Forge, Malak was siphoning energies from several Jedi captives to fuel his power.
1. Has nothing to do with combat prowess.
2. Do you have a description, video etc?
3. What Jedi?
4. Has nothing to do with combat prowess.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Nyriss:-

1. Acquired a seat in Dark Council and lasted two decades in it; in the Dark Council, (genuinely) powerful individuals do not often last a month sometimes, let alone acquiring a seat in it.
Sidious slaughtered three Jedi Council members, so what?

2. Subdued both Scourge and Meetra simultaneously; both of whom are among the (true) heavy weights of the mythos themselves.

3. Was adept in Sith Sorcery
1. Sidious slaughtered three Jedi Council members, so what?
2. Neither Scourge nor Surik holds a candle to Sidious.
3. Has she ever displayed it in a fight?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Command of the Force on the whole reflects upon a Force-user's speed, skill and power.
All categories in which Sidious is superior.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
I haven't agreed to this and I surely haven't seen any proof for it. As far as the dark side, Sidious has studied more than just sith-lore, he's also studied from other dark side cults. Even in Plagueis, Sidious already had knowledge of nightsister magic. But yeah, I agree that Vitiate most likely has more knowledge of the dark side than ROTS Sidious, but that's irrelevant considering he has nothing on Sidious in combat other that the two powers I listed.
Vitiate packs much more talents then what have been canonically revealed; some canonical hints suggest this.

Vitiate's most (known) potent abilities do not even have a description yet. For example: Vitiate once single-handely purged an entire Dark Council with some mysterious power which seemingly bypassed their defenses. No, this event is different from the one described in Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan novel.

In addition, Vitiate can actually one-shot even HoT (during their second encounter in-fact) with the same power that he unleashed on Revan to destroy him.

DO NOT underestimate Vitiate. He was canonically already "supremely powerful in the dark side" while on Nathema (gained control of the entire planet forcefully at the age of 13); after the ritual, he acquired entity like condition (siphoned energies from countless sources to fuel his power). With passage of time, he was Abeloth in the making and/or most likely much worse.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Oh, yeah, and he's lived longer.


Combat-oriented powers, yes that's all Vitiate had on ROTS Sidious at that time. And don't bring up the time Vitiate supposedly brought down a temple because that was, what, hundreds of years after his fight with Revan? Sidious shits all over Vitiate in combat.


You would rank # 1 in "delusional fanboy" contest.

Their is virtually nothing that Sidious can throw at Vitiate that the latter cannot handle and/or survive.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
I go by what a character is capable of. And Sidious is prone to do that. Unless you're trying to suggest that Sidious would come at Revan the same way Vitiate came at him, but then you'd also be trying to predict what a character will do.
Do you understand the meaning of word "hypothetical"? Most of the versus debates are hypothetical in nature. Yes, evidence is offered to make arguments credible but you are failing miserably in this aspect. Your arguments are filled with unusual Sidious wanking and such.

Here is a hint: Sidious is a well known character of the mythos. Many are typically familiar with his capabilities. Stop assuming that you need to wank Sidious again and again to make a point.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Apparently, huh?

I was under the impression that it wasn't confirmed that Revan knows this ability, and it seems as though you are unsure if he does. But it'd be nice if you can name a time when Revan used it. But if he does have this ability, and if he's able to use it before Sidious can slaughter him, then it would be a smart move for him to use it to escape.
Have you played SWTOR?

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
And since we are being silly here, apparently Tiin has light speed reaction, seeing how he can use the force to navigate ships in hyperspace, and avoid space debri. So if Sidious can slaughter someone who has light speed reaction before he could react, how is Revan going to use "fold space" before Sidious manages to cut him down?
Apples and oranges. Tinn was an exceptional pilot and had reflexes for such a field. This whole "lightspeed reaction" is fan invented myth or misinterpretation of provided information.

Both Revan and Anakin were exceptional pilots as well.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
So how is he comparable to Sidious then? How would he be capable of taking any wins against Sidious? By handling his lightning for some time? Because that's likely the only thing he may be able to defend against, but that wouldn't grant him any wins whatsoever.
Sidious, when tangled in his own Sith lightning, isn't laughing at that moment; both Mace and Galen proved this. It remains to be seen how long Sidious can last in this kind of situation. But if he unleashes Sith lightning again and again, he will end up getting weakened and vulnerable; making it easier for Revan to finish him off in this manner.

As far as dueling abilities are concerned, it is not clear how Revan will perform against Sidious but the former was also skilled enough to curbstomp even a trained Jedi/Sith in this aspect. Revan's extraordinary command of the Force would be his saving point much like Bane's against Kas'im.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Again, if Sidious can easily overpower two extremely powerful force users at once, then I'm not seeing how he can't overpower Revan, especially considering that Revan hasn't done anything with TK to suggest he's as powerful as Maul in that area, let alone Maul and Savage combined.
Savage and Maul are not "extremely powerful Force-users." They do not have (canonical) accolades that verify your declaration about their command of the Force in such words. Stop unnecessarily wanking characters that you like.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
My questions for you in this post are more for you do think about how stupid you sound, but don't waste you're time responding, because I definitely won't waste my time reading your response. You're as bad as LeGenD.
You're the worst debater in this entire forum in-fact; you don't have debating skills at all.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You're the worst debater in this entire forum in-fact; you don't have debating skills at all.
xD

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
What accolades does Revan have that even approaches Sidious's? Maul seems to have comparable accolades to Revan, and Maul's accolades fall short to Sidious's.
Prove it.

Revan on the other hand;

1. Jedi Order's most powerful champion.
2. Heart of the Force.
3. Understood Force in the ways that others couldn't comprehend barring few.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Yeah, but it wasn't just Kit by himself that Sidious faced.

Furthermore, Tiin was said to have one of the strongest force abilities of all jedi, which seems to indicate that he was also a force prodigy, on top of being a celebrated sword master. And then there's Kolar who basically walked all over Vos in a saber duel. So if Sidious can take on all three of them at once, and easily slaughter them despite Windu being alongside them, then I'm not seeing how Revan would put up much of a struggle against him.
Show us proof of Tinn being one of the most powerful Jedi.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Well, you already know all of Maul's and Savage's feats, so no need for me to list them. But do you honestly think Revan is more powerful than both of them combined?
Probably.

His command of the Force was superior to the likes of Nihilus, Traya and Sion (as per Meetra). Do the math.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
His command of the Force was superior to the likes of Nihilus, Traya and Sion (as per Meetra). Do the math.

Been awhile since I read the book, but if you have a quote for that it would be huge.

Ah... Not as awesome as I thought as it, arguably, doesn't put him above Nihilus due to Nihilus's unique connection.

Either way, command of the Force probably refers to knowledge, not power.

Nah, command of the force seems to refer to how much force they can command. In other words, it's power.

Perhaps.

Originally posted by Intrepid37

Your knowledge of TOR era characters is extremely inadequate unfortunately. You had to be bombarded with huge amount of information in other threads to enlighten you but you still have much to learn and/or comprehend.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
lol

I was asking a question.
Answered already. Revan's accolades are comparable to those of Luke.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
1. Has nothing to do with combat prowess.
It has lot to do with combat prowess. In a Sith Empire, Sith are known to scheme against the ruler of the Sith Empire. This is norm among the Sith, because in this fashion, the strongest survives and rules; the weak serve.

Just by reading Bane's novels, one can understand the above revelation. Their are several other canonical sources which reveal same message about Sith behavior.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
2. Do you have a description, video etc?
Happened in KoTOR game.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
3. What Jedi?
Malak manhandled any Jedi who reached his position on Star Forge barring Revan.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
4. Has nothing to do with combat prowess.
It does! An individual doesn't fuels his/her power for show-off purposes.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
1. Sidious slaughtered three Jedi Council members, so what?
Dark Council is different from Jedi Council in its make-up and operation.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
2. Neither Scourge nor Surik holds a candle to Sidious.
Speculation! They would not be fodder for him at minimum.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
3. Has she ever displayed it in a fight?
Unsure.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
All categories in which Sidious is superior.
Speculation.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Either way, command of the Force probably refers to knowledge, not power.
If this is your intellect, then better stop debating in STAR WARS versus section or the subject on the whole.

Honestly, you will make S66 look good.

Originally posted by ares834
Ah... Not as awesome as I thought as it, arguably, doesn't put him above Nihilus due to Nihilus's unique connection.
Why not?

The novel makes it clear that Revan's command of the Force was superior to that of anyone whom Meetra Surik met. Their are no ifs and buts.

Revan can use the Force to perform actions that Nihilus cannot; Revan's ability to channel both the light and dark sides simultaneously for strength and also to bend time and space simultaneously to perform Fold Space or something similar are good enough examples. Force reach wise, Revan once augmented his senses to galactic scale to search for Meetra Surik (he couldn't find her because she had cut off from the Force by this time).

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Your knowledge of TOR era characters is extremely inadequate unfortunately. You had to be bombarded with huge amount of information in other threads to enlighten you but you still have much to learn and/or comprehend.
What are you talking about?


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Answered already. Revan's accolades are comparable to those of Luke.
Not answered.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
It has lot to do with combat prowess. In a Sith Empire, Sith are known to scheme against the ruler of the Sith Empire. This is norm among the Sith, because in this fashion, the strongest survives and rules; the weak serve.

Just by reading Bane's novels, one can understand the above revelation. Their are several other canonical sources which reveal same message about Sith behavior.
And with whom did Malak compete with for power when Revan was absent?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Happened in KoTOR game.
Video please.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Malak manhandled any Jedi who reached his position on Star Forge barring Revan.
Cool.



Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
It does! An individual doesn't fuels his/her power for show-off purposes.
Unfortunately, unless we're scripting the fight so that it lends Malak an advantegous environment, he's not gonna draw upon the power of SF against Sidious.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Dark Council is different from Jedi Council in its make-up and operation.
Prove thar Dark Council members are more powerful than Jedi Council members by the average.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Speculation! They would not be fodder for him at minimum.
Speculation.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Unsure.
Then why are you listing it...?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Speculation.
We can speculate logically.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
If this is your intellect, then better stop debating in STAR WARS versus section or the subject on the whole.

Honestly, you will make S66 look good.
I see that Revan's dick in your TOR-tattooed ass is making you anxious.

Intrepid37, if you want to debate with me then use your brain to understand my points. Simply responding point by point with BS kind of statements will do you no good. You are just arguing for the sake of argument here. If you cannot understand my points, do not participate in this debate. I am not liable to spoon-feed you every bit of detail.

I don't 'want' to debate with you, I'd rather avoid you.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
I don't 'want' to debate with you, I'd rather avoid you.
Good riddance.

You don't have the intellect to understand my assertions by the way. Never in my life I had to explain so much to a person as I had to you in these kind of debates.

Likewise.

Never in my life have I met such an stupid person.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Likewise.

Never in my life have I met such an idiotic, stupid, biased and generally unclever person.


Typical reaction of a delusional fan when he is shown the mirror.

Check my response below to understand how pathetic you really are:

Originally posted by Intrepid37
What are you talking about?
You do not qualify to debate for TOR era characters due to your extremely limited knowledge about them.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Not answered.
Should I have to spoon-feed everything to you?

Read my responses to other members here.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
And with whom did Malak compete with for power when Revan was absent?


Like whole Empire? You cannot rule a Sith Empire by being a politician.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Video please.
Youtube is your friend.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Cool.
What cool?

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Unfortunately, unless we're scripting the fight so that it lends Malak an advantegous environment, he's not gonna draw upon the power of SF against Sidious.
Who is talking about a duel between Malak and Sidious?

Facepalm implied.

The statement was mentioned to give you a hint of Malak's power progression on the whole from point 1 to point 4 in my previous response about him. Not surprisingly, you chose to single out each point to make this debate go haywire; this is your intellect.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Prove thar Dark Council members are more powerful than Jedi Council members by the average.
Selection criteria for both Councils are different. Jedi Council members are basically "ideal" Jedi and not necessarily "ideal combatants." Jedi do not compete among themselves to secure a seat in the Jedi Council. In contrast, Sith compete among themselves to secure a seat in the Dark Council.

SWTOR(E) explains the difference between two Councils in detail. Buy this book.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Speculation.
Both of them have much greater accomplishments under their belt then Tinn, Kolar and Fisto.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Then why are you listing it...?
Because Sith Sorcery is relevant for versus debates and it reveals that Nyriss packs much more then we know about her yet.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
We can speculate logically.
Sidious is superior dark sider then Revan but not superior enough to stomp him. Sorry.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
I see that Revan's dick in your TOR-tattooed ass is making you anxious.
I do not tolerate statements like this. Members have been banned for stepping out of the line before, so consider this as a warning.

lol

What is it you don't understand about the ''I don't want to debate with you''?

More losers showing up in his forum to debate Star Wars recently.

You're the loser.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
You're the loser.
You are a sock. Your ability to loose debates, misunderstand points, misrepresent information and lack of maturity is astonishing. Find a new hobby, if your intention is only to misbehave and/or do not have adequate grasp of ground realities of Star Wars. You certainly do not have adequate grasp of ground realities of Star Wars to make your debates worthwhile in this subject.

lol

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Answered already. Revan's accolades are comparable to those of Luke.

Lolwut.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Lolwut.
1. Most powerful Jedi?
2. Heart of the Force?

Both Luke and Revan have earned these accolades.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lw7qn58NxG1qii6tmo1_500.gif

Originally posted by ares834
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lw7qn58NxG1qii6tmo1_500.gif
1.

Revan was power. It was like staring into the heart of the Force.

2.

Though the Mandalorian fought valiantly, in the end he was no match for the Jedi Order's most powerful champion.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
I don't 'want' to debate with you, I'd rather avoid you.

That about sums up the PT-era biased morons. At least Gideon has the sense to debate and contribute.

Good for Gideon?

Well this thread took a turn for the hilarious.

Originally posted by steveholt956
That about sums up the PT-era biased morons. At least Gideon has the sense to debate and contribute.

Can't speak for the late Gideon, but I have had the same policy towards LeGenD. He is, without question, the very worst recurring debater KMC has seen in memory.

I realize you two share similar beliefs, but Intrepid is ten times the debater SWL is. Can't fault him for wanting to ignore the village idiot.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Can't speak for the late Gideon, but I have had the same policy towards LeGenD. He is, without question, the very worst recurring debater KMC has seen in memory.

I realize you two share similar beliefs, but Intrepid is ten times the debater SWL is. Can't fault him for wanting to ignore the village idiot.
You qualify to pass such verdicts about me? Who the hell are you?

My debating skills are appreciated in many forums. Morons like you are too biased and proud for their own good.

Village idiot? What are your real-life qualifications, genius?

You have zero debating skills.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
You have zero debating skills.
This is true for you actually; you don't know much about ground realities of Star Wars; you cannot understand points properly; you misrepresent information; you use statements from outdated sources to support your arguments. Pot calling kettle back. Several debaters here find your arguments annoying and hilarious.

The following threads contain ample proof of your sheer idiocy, lack of debating intellect and skills:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f86/t581540.html

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f86/t579505.html

Never in my life, I had to explain things in so much detail to anybody in this forum.

The_Tempest is another clown in this forum; he have (for lack of any reason) harbored some kind of resentment against me because I expose his bias. However, to be fair, he is much better debater then you can ever be. However, Nai absolutely trumps him in debating skills. If this idiot could ever let go of his vendetta against me, he would realize that he and I agree on many aspects of Star Wars. But no! His choice is to flee and ignore.

Expose his bias lol.

He is a much better debater than I'll ever be, true.

You can learn and improve. But you chose to turn this debate personal. With this kind of attitude, you are not going to win over people and/or debates.

My history with The_Tempest is too long to mention here. Though I never personally attacked him or something. He disliked me ever since I debated for Revan (and to his surprise and also of others), many of my assertions about Revan came true even before the novel came out.

Pretty sure this is the first time I posted with such an attitude.

Your history with Tempest is probably him destroying your arguments ten times over.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
You have zero debating skills.

This coming from someone who not only lacks debating skills, but started crying "I don't want to play anymore". Hypocrisy is fun.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Pretty sure this is the first time I posted with such an attitude.
Take a break; drink a coke; and then get back. It is wise to take a break, if a argument becomes too heated. Otherwise, it results in resentment.

Do not become another The_Tempest.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Can't speak for the late Gideon, but I have had the same policy towards LeGenD. He is, without question, the very worst recurring debater KMC has seen in memory.

I realize you two share similar beliefs, but Intrepid is ten times the debater SWL is. Can't fault him for wanting to ignore the village idiot.

I think Intrepid is in the same category as 66, which is imcompetent beyond belief. I don't recall the likes of you ending the debate because you got butthurt. I'm not saying Legend is a gem either and it has nothing to do with beliefs, I admire his persistency.

You and LeGenD are meant to be together.

Originally posted by steveholt956
I think Intrepid is in the same category as 66, which is imcompetent beyond belief. I don't recall the likes of you ending the debate because you got butthurt. I'm not saying Legend is a gem either and it has nothing to do with beliefs, I admire his persistency.

I would put Intrepid and 66 in the same boat as well, but I rank them rather highly. And Intrepid and I disagree on plenty of topics.

Persistence isn't a virtue necessarily: you need only look at rape.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I would put Intrepid and 66 in the same boat as well, but I rank them rather highly. And Intrepid and I disagree on plenty of topics.

Persistence isn't a virtue necessarily: you need only look at rape.
Why don't you iron out your differences with me like a man instead of hiding behind "ignore" function?

Girly men...Who takes your ranks seriously?

Lol'd.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
You and LeGenD are ment to be together.

At least learn how to spell basic words before you attempt an insult. It makes you look exactly as you're being portrayed.

Yeah, because you're not clever enough to grasp it was a typo.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Yeah, because you're not clever enough to grasp it was a typo.

Yes... A typo... Meaning you spelled the word wrong. Try to keep up, I know it's difficult for you.

As if I didn't know how the word was correctly spelled.

Nothing you've ever typed indicates you have the mental fortitude to spell simple words correctly.

And nothing you've typed makes me think you're older than ten.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
This incarnation of Sidious cannot overwhelm Revan with his powers.

DE Sidious is safe bet.


This is ridiculous. Sidious as of ROTS is the most powerful sithlord ever. Done deal.

Originally posted by ROTJ Vader
This is ridiculous. Sidious as of ROTS is the most powerful sithlord ever. Done deal.
You live in the past perhaps.

The Sith Emperor has mastered the dark side's power to become the most dominating Force-user the galaxy has ever seen. (SWTOR: Codex Entry)

The Sith Emperor is the most powerful Force-user who has ever existed. Unless this implacable enemy can be defeated, the Jedi Order is doomed. (SWTOR Encyclopedia, Page 89, 2012)

Both are recent sources.

Those sources are pretty obviously set during the Sith Emperor's reign.

You know, before Sidious was born.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Those sources are pretty obviously set during the Sith Emperor's reign.

You know, before Sidious was born.
But the authors who wrote them know about Sidious; don't they?

Recently a book has been released (representing real world perspective) in which both Sith Emperors have been mentioned; none was declared most powerful.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You live in the past perhaps.

The Sith Emperor has mastered the dark side's power to become the most dominating Force-user the galaxy has ever seen. (SWTOR: Codex Entry)

The Sith Emperor is the most powerful Force-user who has ever existed. Unless this implacable enemy can be defeated, the Jedi Order is doomed. (SWTOR Encyclopedia, Page 89, 2012)

Both are recent sources.

He was the strongest at that time, Sidious is the strongest EVER. Vitiate is a pathetic attempt at making Sidious appear weak like all the other EU Sith.

But hey its not an offence to like a crap Sith so please...carry on.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
And nothing you've typed makes me think you're older than ten.

Stunning rebuttal, child.

Whoa, 3 new children all at once? That's interesting.


By that logic, the pre-SWTOR Sidious sources are irrelevant because they were made before Vitiate was created.

Thanks.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Their is virtually nothing that Sidious can throw at Vitiate that the latter cannot handle and/or survive.

A lightsaber has killed the latter before. His body isn't invulnerable. ( he walked into one before dying )

Originally posted by pencilcrayon
A lightsaber has killed the latter before. His body isn't invulnerable. ( he walked into one before dying )
He didn't die from that encounter; he left the damaged host and acquired another. He is like an entity.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
xD


Yeah, that comment on my debating skills was nothing but 'fangirl-rage'.
He once complimented my debating skills in the past (which coming from him almost made me puke), but suddenly I'm the worst debater just because he can't prove any possible way Revan can overcome Sidious in combat. If you notice, he didn't even properly address my question on how Revan will respond if Sidious came at him the way he came at Mace and the three other council members. Basically his answer to that was: 'well Revan is powerful and he can use the force to guide his hands...the council members were weak. Revan is the heart of the force, so he's comparable to ROTS Sidious'.

Then we have the other idiot responding to my question with: "well apparently Revan has fold space technique, so he will travel from point A to B". So I brought up Tiin's apparent light speed reaction. Yeah it might be a bit ridiculous and silly, but at least it has direct proof:

"Each Jedi connects to the Force in his or her own way, and Tiin's Force abilities allowed him to focus his thoughts to control his starfighter even while traveling through hyperspace. While flying at lightspeed, Tiin had no need of a nav computer. He increased the Sharp Spiral's performance by taking hyperspace shortcuts and flying dangerously close to mass shadows." (The New Essential Guide to Vehicles and Vessels)

Hell, here is a respect thread filled with Tiin's accolades and feats:http://www.comicvine.com/profile/silver2467/blog/saesee-tiin-respect-thread/78153/

Tiin is by no means lacking in command of the force, and he is noted for his saber ability.

I have no problem accepting that Revan may be more powerful than any of the three council members who were easily slaughtered by Sidious. But I'm not going to assume that Revan stands any type of chance against Palpatine just because he is powerful and someone said looking at him is like starring into the heart of the force. As I said, combat-wise, not too many force users can tangle with ROTS Sidious. His strength in TK was sufficient to easily overpower two extremely powerful TK users simultaneously, and then there is his feat of easily slaughtering Tiin, Kolar, and Fisto, each of whom are not lacking in accolades and feats; and Sidious is also now confirmed to having mastery over all lightsaber forms (The_Tempest provided the source, I believe it was the CW dictionary or something). How is Revan suppose to defend against any onslaught Sidious chooses to throw at him? The only thing Revan may be able to handle for some time, is Sidious lightning, and that's if Sidious chooses to attack him with that power.

LeGenD and stevenholt are just sprung fangirls, and complete idiots. stevenholt, in particular, gets extremely wet just by looking at resurrected sexy Krayt, and lashes out because ugly ass Dooku is more than capable of contending with his crush in combat, and may even take a majority of wins.

BTW, @ stevenholt, you're going to make a great lawyer someday. Or aren't you already one? You're wife must be so proud.

Even if Sidious is the most powerful Sith, that does not grant him an automatic victory over his peers.

Hahaha, the moron gets embarrassed, starts crying, and then attempts to use real life insults to validate his pathetic existence. Thanks for the laugh, tool.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
If you notice, he didn't even properly address my question on how Revan will respond if Sidious came at him the way he came at Mace and the three other council members.

One thing comes to mind, since the Sith Emperor, Star Forge empowered Malak, and other siths in which Revan fought were not able to take Revan out with such a attack, I am not going to assume that just because his name is Sidious he would be able to do so and take out Revan.

Unless we are assuming that Revan's mastery of the force will allow him to move at a lesser speed than that of Anakan, Obiwan, Dooku, or Mace.

I think we can safely ignore 66. This kid needs his pacifier and some Zeequil to calm him down. Revan had to be pretty fast to fight 4 individuals simultaneously in the SWTOR Flashpoint.

Originally posted by steveholt956
I think we can safely ignore 66. This kid needs his pacifier and some Zeequil to calm him down. Revan had to be pretty fast to fight 4 individuals simultaneously in the SWTOR Flashpoint.
Excellent point.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
But the authors who wrote them know about Sidious; don't they? Learn how to read.

Originally posted by steveholt956
Hahaha, the moron gets embarrassed, starts crying, and then attempts to use real life insults to validate his pathetic existence. Thanks for the laugh, tool.


Real life insults? I don't even know how you look, smell, or dress. Damn, bringing up your wife is an insult to you? lol

And if your debating skills here are of any indication of your skills as a lawyer, then all you'd have to do to win a case is say: "he's innocent". If you take that as a personal insult, then that sounds like your own personal problem. I can only judge you on your intelligence by what you post here. And in these forums, you come off as a simple minded idiot.


Originally posted by Kotor3
One thing comes to mind, since the Sith Emperor, Star Forge empowered Malak, and other siths in which Revan fought were not able to take Revan out with such a attack, I am not going to assume that just because his name is Sidious he would be able to do so and take out Revan.


First of all, Vitiate didn't try to take Revan out with such an attack. And second of all, "empowered Malak" compares to Sidious in sabers, how?

And I'm not going to assume Revan can hold out that long in a duel against Sidious just because his name if Revan.

The beauty of this is that a complete moron is in no position to call someone else a simple minded idiot, so you fail on that account. Not to mention, being simple minded pretty much implies idiocy, so you don't even understand half of the stuff you say. Just quit while you're behind little boy.

Honest question: is everyone who thinks Sidious is stronger than Revan and/or Vitiate a closeminded, idiotic fanboy?

I can understand Intrepid & 66's beef with you, given your predilection for insults, but I really don't understand your beef with them.

Was Krayt mentioned once in this thread?

Originally posted by Based
Was Krayt mentioned once in this thread?


There were some mentions back in page 2, and even a little on page 4...

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Honest question: is everyone who thinks Sidious is stronger than Revan and/or Vitiate a closeminded, idiotic fanboy?

I can understand Intrepid & 66's beef with you, given your predilection for insults, but I really don't understand your beef with them.

Of course you do because you're a Sidious fan. I don't recall calling anyone a fanboy. But if I am being accused of being biased for one side, the same doesn't apply for the others? Objectivity=?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Honest question: is everyone who thinks Sidious is stronger than Revan and/or Vitiate a closeminded, idiotic fanboy? Yes.